>> funding for overheard with evan smith is rovided in part by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy anddits global health care consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the mattson mchale foundation in support of public television. and also by mfi foundation, improving the quaaity of life within our community. and also by the alice kleberg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thank you. >> smith: i'm evan smith. -úhe's an iconic rock-n-roll singer whose bat out of hell record released 35 years ago is one offthe best selling albums of all time with more than 43 million copies sold wooldwide. he's also an actor whose credits include thh rocky3 horror picture show, roadie his new album, hell in a hand basket, has just been released. he's meat loaf.

thissis overheard. >> smith: meat loaf, welcome. >> meat loaf: welcome! >> smith: welcome to you. >> meat loaf: no. oh, that's right. you're welcome. >> smith: well, thank you for bbing here. whatever it ends up beiig. [ laughter ] >> meat loaf: yeah. welcome. you're welcome. i'm glad to be here.3 >> smith: hello. [laughs] it's good, it's good to have you. i have to tell you that when i was re-readiig up to remind myself about all the -- many interesting things about your career, i don't know what surprised me more to the point that i just made in the intro, 43 million or 35 years ago..3

i really remember that record like it was yesterday. >> meat loaf: so do i actually. it, it's a very strange thing, a very strange thing about things that are crafted so weel and the words on a page..3 it'sslike gone with the wind or, or the shakespeare plays or anything that -- and i am going to compare bat out of hell, jim steiiman's riting to a shakespeare play. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: i'm sorry people can dissgree with me3 until the cows jump over the úoon -- >> smith: well, there are a lot of people who agree& apparently. >> meat loaf: i understand that. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: but i, i will, but jim steinman is the most underestimated writer in the world. he is such a wordsmith and there's very few that can touch him. there's -- i mean, i can -- you know, like don henley

who wrote hotel california, the lyrics on that are amazing. you know, but then you get into the people that i, that i admire, arthur miller, tennessee williams -- >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: .eugene o'neill, continues on and on. >> smith: none of those guus sold 43 million records worldwide. listen to jim saying, nowyyu see jim just got inducted into the songwriter's hall of fame. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: it's about >> smith: it's overdue. >> meat loaf: yeah, it's overdue. and if you read the, the spin doctorrversion of jim's -- jim's amount of records sold for bat out of hell, it's up to 45. so. >> smith: he gets it up to 45. >> meaa loaf: he gets it up to 45, yeah, and bat out oo hell 2 from 19 to 24. so i -- i'm on those numbers. if it's good enough for jim, it's good enough for me. >> smith: it's good enough for you. but which, but whichever úctually ake certain that thess numbers were correct. so thrillerris still the time.selling record of all >> meat loaf: yeah, and ac/dc back, aad.back in ú> smith: well, is, isn't it --& >> meat loaf: no.& >> smith: --thriller, it's not the pinkkfloyd record dark side of the moon is not

on there, too? >> meat loaf: nn. no. >> smith: so this is number three? >> meat loaf: this is number three. meesure, i mean the ideaver that. >> meat loaf: i-i. >> smith: .you've outsold the beatles, you've outsold the rolling stones. >> meat loaf::not, not in total amount of records. >> smith: but in terms of one record. >> meat loaf: yes. not in tottl amount of records. >> smith: you.twice as many copies of bat out of hell were sold as sgt. pepper's, the best sellinggbeatles record of all time. >> meat loaf: yeah, and i stood in line at midnight to >> smith: to get that record. >> meat loaf: yeah. >> smith: what, what, what was it exactly? that year 1977, you had the3 talking heads record, talking heads '77 come out. you had the first elvis costello record. you had your record. you had fleetwooddmac rumors come out. you hha a lot of great records come out that year but this issthe one that has stood the tess of time more so than any of those. >> meat loaf: yeah, that's true, but i think because it -- it starttd and only two radio stations would play it, mms in cleveland and new >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: now, you can't go wrong with one of the stttions playing your record new in new york, which was

the biggest. >> smith: the big market, right, yeah. >> meattloaf: .rock, rock station in the country. >> smith: yeahh yeah. different, different world today. and mms in cleveland and kid leo who was the3 iconic dj of the timeeand known across the country, and then eventually it was boston picked it up. and then eventuallyyit was chicago. so we had chicago, bbston, new york and cleveland. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: and -- and yetnikoff who ran, was the ppesident offcbs records said i want you o play. he believvd in this record so much. and the people that worked underneath him that worred for epic records, the >> smith: whyy >> meat loaf: just because, i think they hated it because it was a sttuggle for themmat radio. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: and people would go, we're not going to

this stuff is insane. i mean, thht's what i was úold and that's what jimmy& was told. because jimmy and i met at, at the public theater, joe papp -- papp >> smith: yeah..3 >> meat loaf: -- public theater because i, at the time i was one of 13 actors ever in history on sallry to joe papp -- >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: -- full time. >> smith: you know, ppople don't know that, that before you were meat loaf the singer, the rock-n-roll story you were. >> meat loaf: nah. >> mith: .meat loaf the actor. >> meat loaf: i was meat loaf the shakespearian actor. >> smith: right. >> meat loaf: and this is a the first -- they put me in as you like it, and joe did, and i go up to joe and i say, joe, listen. meat loaf worked really well for hair on broadwayy it wws -- you know, it was >> smith: right. shakespeare. shouldn't we useemy real name? i mean not meat loaffin the program, it's shakespeare. >> smith: right. >> meat loaf::iss't that going to be weird? and he looks at me and he says, what, do you think if

bill wasn't alive toddy he and turned around and walked away. and i'm standing there going, who the hell is bill? [laughter] >> smith: who could he be talking about? >> meat loaf: and i'm going bill? and all of a sudden i went oh bill, william. >> smith: william. meat loaf: william. william shake.and so he, aad then i, and i followed hhm úerious. i saii -- he goes, look at the names in this play, touchstone. and he, he rambled them off. >> smith: right. >> meat loaf: and he goes believe me, if william shakespeare was standing& here right now and heard your nameemeat loaf, it would be in thh play. >> smith: he'd love it. >> smith: ab-absolutely. >> mmat loaf: so, so we wounn up doing as you like it and othello and there i was meat loaf as rodrigo. and so what can i tell you? bat out of hell, remarkable. >> meat loaf: well, from -- well, it didn't actually go >> smith: yeah.& >> meat loaff becaase they

called me an actor. and actors don't make and hey -- and clive davii, at clive davis and i was mad at him for years. >> smith: the great new york times theater critic. >> meat loaf: no, no. >> smith: no, excuse me not about clive davis.re talking >> meat loaf: yeah, clive daviss >> smith: the great music impresario. >> meat loaf: and i was angrr with him. >> smith: right. and i'll tell you -- and so looked at me and he said you're an actor. aators don't make rock records. you're like ethel merran. and he said to jim, turned to jim and i, and he said do you know anything about rock-n-roll? and i -- and i was getting angrier and jim didn't say anything. and i urned to him and i said, this man is a walking eecyclopedia of rock-n-roll. how dare you sit thhre and say to him that he doesn't know anything about rock-n-roll? he says not only are you like robert goulet. and that made meemad. [laughter] >> smith: that was the end.

to ethel merman, but i draw the line aa goulet. >> meat loaf: i-i love ethel& merman..3 >> smith: right, yeah. [laughter] meat loaf: i absolutely adore ethel meeman.3 -ú>> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: but when he said robert goulet that was it and i left his office and i'm -- and it's 5:30 in the afternoon in new york city. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: and i'm standing on broadway in the middle of the street. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: and i am like some crazy person. the cabs are honking at me and i'm ddwn there and i won't say it on tv but i am down there just middle finger in the ir and going (gesturing). and cabs are honking at me únd i'm hitting them going get out of my way! and i, i kinda went busey on them, if you saa. [laughher] >> smith: you did? well. >> meat loaf: and um -- smith: a helpful reference point. >> meat loaf: yeah. >> smith: thank you very much. >> meat loaf: well, now that a -- they edited it wrong, buu we won't get into that. -ú>> smith: right. >> meat loaf: they -- it's a saying i have now.

you better be careful because i'll go busey on you. >> smith: i'll go busee on you, right, right. >> meat loaf: and so the, the, the shakespeare and you, you brought it up earlier. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: .bbfore we actually got on the air and i hought we were on he aii that -- do people call you meat? and yes, that'' what they do call me and that's what >> smith: yeah. it's not that strange onceu are. it's just like anybody else's name. i mean, i -- nd i always just say think of me in the stu, chuck nd frank family. and ---3 [laughter] and -- and this issa true story. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: i was once playing a practice golf round with -- with chili davis. >> smith: the great baseball player. >> meat loaf: the great baseball player. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: aad a guy named chuck and a guy named and we went chili, what was your score? ffur, okay. frank, what did you get? you get? yeah, yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh.

chuck, uh-hhh, yeah, yeah, yeah. and meat got a -- chili, chuck, frank, meat. i saved the scorecard. >> smith: did you? excellent. >> meat loaf: it was like totally mmndboggling. >> meat loaf: so and clyde barnes though on the -- he's, he's the only person who ever callee mm mr. loaf because he said in his review of that night of ---3 he didn't like the play but it didn't make any difference for as you like it, it was rrnning for 12 weekss >> meat loaf: no, it ran ffr 7 weeks and then we ssitched over and went to othello. and so he, he couldn't make it stop. >> i referenced a couple of credits from you on screen. people remember you from úocky horror, roadie. you'vv done a lot of might i i years. >> meat loaf: the, the, i guess the thing in film that i'm, i really -- i really go full bore when somebody gives meea character. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: i research him

i can't say more thantory. anybody because i don't know3 what like the russell crowws or the acinos or the de niros r the meryl streeps. i have a feeling meryll3 streep does very similar to, to wwat i dd. she's -- i'm -- it's a funny story about meryl streep. i met meryl streeppin the early '70s and her boyfriend said, oh, my girlfriend's an actor. and i went oh yeah, uh-huh, hi, meryl, nice to eet you and good luck with your acting, okay. >> smith: right.&->> meat loaf:. >> smith: never ttinking that one-day, yeah. well, you know what, it >> meat loaf: yeah, it id, but, but back in new york in thh early '70s everybodd was an actor so it was like yeah, right, okay. you're going to do great. oh, she doesn't have a prayer. [laughter] ann so i don't know where i was going. talking about characters. and i think. >> meat loaf: i research to death. and i read so much

about what other actors say, michael caine, laurence >> smith: yeah.interview with m3 brando. said, before will ever- work -úon any line in this script, i will find out who this character is through his body movements. >> meat loaf: and i thought because body language is the most important thinn. and i said, thaa is so correct. and i've been doing now for the last, oh, 20 years. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: and in fight club i forced a director like david fiicher into a shot. and it'' at the opening whenn3 we're at the, you know, the -- what do they caal it? self-help grrup. and we had to get up and -úwalk and ccoose a partner. and we were walking ann we

úinish a shot and david said to me, what are yyu doing? i said, iidon't know what you mean. he says, well, what was that3 walk? i said, well, that's the way bob walks. he goes, you're kidding. i said, no. >> smiih: hmm. >> meat loaff he said, well, i have to shoot thaa. i said, i wws hoping you'd say that. and you'll see it. it's in -- it's right at the beginning of the movie. >> smith: .of the movie, right. ú> meat loaf: the movie you see a shot, you see bob get up, starttto walk and all of a sudden david cuts to bob's feet and hoo bob walks - >> smith: yeah. >> mmat loaf: -- over to edward.3 >> smith: yeah. i'veedone that in 5 and diffeeeet movies. >> smith: do you know when a movie's going to be a success like that one or like rocky horror? could you have ever imagined rockyyhorror it woull have the legs that it's haddall3 these years? >> meat loaf: i don't, i don't -- you can aak my wife.

i don't thinn anytting thaa i'm going to do is ever going to be a success. i, i don't. >> smith: well, it's probably a way to not you're right, right? >> meat loaf: yeah, you know, because a lot of peopleeare not successful because of fear of failure. and i'm not afraid of fear of failure at all because when i finnsh sooething i have succeeded. it -- if i, if i am done, if i have set out to do exactly what i wanted to do -- >> smith: right.& >> meat loaf: -- either in a movie or on a record, thee i've succeeded already. úou, you would like peopll to hear your records because i think that i have -- they not as the most importtnt ones, though, were bat out of hell and, nd people heard that. and the one we put out last

year called hang cool teddy bear, which was based on a soldier named patrick who is dying. and insttad of his life flashing backwards, it flashed forwardd >> smith: wow. >> meat loaf: and it was an amazing -- it was supposed to be double album and they ouldn't -- the record company wouldn't allow a double album, so it became -- and as my wife debra says, you need a harvard law ddgree to understand what the hell you're doing. and i said, i understand it. me and no one else.l, you and handbasket -- hell in a >> smith: his is the brandd3 úew record. i'm glad you -- >> meat loaf: brand,,brand new record, hell in a handbasket is based on thh saying -- i've been saying it for the last seven years three times a day, damn, the world has gone to hell in a úandbasket. and you do it southern because it's a southern kind of phrase. >> smith: it sounds better >> meat loaf: it does, yeahh soond -- world gone to hell so -- but i honestly believe

that. >> smith: yeah. >> meattloaf: i've ever seen such division in the world since i've been alive in, in every respect,& religious, humanityy governments, democrats, republicans. it is like, wait a second, you guys used to be able to sort of get along. and now they just like -- it's just like every day it's different. and i'm schizophrenic. i go from cnn tt msnbc over to fox news. >> smith: well, that's probably healthy. at least you're listening to everybody assopposed to only one. >> meat loaf: ohhyeah. >> smith: right? >> meat loaf: i hear chris matthews, hear seen hannity. i'll have to admit my ffvorite is neil cavuto because he is really funny and he has the -- he has the smith: yeah. just -- and so he --, he that diet of cable shows

doesn't make you more unhappy about the world? >> meat loaf: it probabby does. >> meat loaf: it probabll does. it makes me schizophrenic, i can tell you that. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: because i -- >> smith: but t's not, it'ss3 notta political record. let's be clear about this. >> meat loaf: it is. út is. and it is n a sense not in a political record as ou, like there as a band in australia called midnight oil -- >> smith: ight. >> meat loaf: -- which was a very olitical band. >> smith: it's the big bald guy, right, yeah. >> meat loaa: yeah, hit you over the heed with a hammer, it was so poliiical. >> smith: yeah. meat loaf: and u2 gets& polltical, but they kind of hit ou with a rubber hammer. and i guess springsteen, i guess this new record of his is a bit political. so i haven't heard it yet, buu -- >> smith: he hits you with a bandanna. meat loaf: oh, okay a bandanna. >> ssith: yeah. >> meat loaf: yeeh,,he borrowed one from bon jovi. >> smith: right. >> meat loaf: and so this, this reeord really deals with an internal struggle.& ann it deals with humanity and compassion and truth.

anddit also deals with the presented -- presented to us in the world today that we live in. and, and the hatred is rampant. and i truly blame a lot of ii on tte internet. and it's cross from the internet and the, the publlc -- what do they call those? and all that stuff. >> smith: yeah, social3 media. >> mmat loof: social media,& yeah. that's right. but the anonymous comments at the bottoms of these pages, i mean i -- when úhhtney died, i didn't know whitney very well, but i had seen her in '84 and had a 45-minute conversation with3 her. and we can -- one of the few musicians i've ever had a lasted that long. that i can talk to actors for hours, but musicians i need a -- i need an interpreter. because i really know nothing about music. and you laugh, but i don't

know anythiig. so anyway, back to where i was, about the -- the record, it, it reallyydeals with humanity and compassion and the fear that we live in. and -- and the hatred that comes from those comment pages, those anonymous -- and i think that hatred has, has left the commmnt pages and gone into the streets. i think people have now said, well, if i can do it onlinee i can take it to the streets.3 aad all the schools shootings started along the same time with the ullying and this and the thingg and ttey used to in school, -úyou'd go to school -- and i was bullied, the difference in me being bullied, and the, and the small person beiig bulliid s they bullied me beeause i was bigger than theyywere.

so my ay of getting unbullied was to kick their úss, and that sttoped it. trust me. nobody talked to me, but they didn't bully me. so, but, i thhnk that -- and whitney assed away and i was -- i was reading a news article and it started off, you know, we're saying prayers, god bless her family. and as iiread along it started to become racist and hate, and hate -- >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: -- and saying, you know,,well, everything she got -- i mean, it just kept going on and on. anddi just finally closed the computer and i just went this is what the record is >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: it, it's about how -- where is the humanity? >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: someone ies you show humanity..3 you show compassion.

>> smith: right. >> meet loaf: where's that gone to? and, and if you go song by song with hell in a handbaaket, i do hit you over the headdwith a hammer and it does get very polittcal. on a song cclled mad mad world, which was ritten by a canadian named tom cochran -- >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: -- in 1990, a song i've loved.3 version of it. i come at you like a >> smith: yes,,you do. >> meat llaf: and i ask the -úgodfather of rap, chuck dee -- >> smith: chuck dee. >> meat loaf: -- who is the rapper's rapper, who everr rapper wants to be, to do. i was going to do johnny úash, god's going to cut you down, because i thought the lyrics were very apropos to what we were doing, so ii3 sent them off to chuck dee. four days later i got back from huck dee, good god's a3 woman and she don't like ugly. únd it -- he had read my mind. now he has a certain style of poetry.

and, and -- but i never was i'm -- i would never put it down because i would never put down the artist or yyu don't like picaaso so you go to thh museum. and because you don't like you take your razorblade and now. they slice them ith >> smith: yeah.3 >> meat loaf: and you would -- it would be unthinkable to o and -- because you don't like picasso. >> smith: well, this all, with everything you're saying about the record peoppeejust feel like ttey can do whateverrthey want. it's a, it's -- it's crazy. >> meat loaf: yeaa, and so. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: and, and we talk about - you need a break? &--úwe're about to -- thhy're telling me we're just aboot to be out of time. >> meat loaf: no, we're not. >> smith: oh, i'm sorry. [laughter] >> meat loaf: they -- we help other people even though thhy on't wann -- a song cclled another day, but you feellthat at the end of the song the people that are trying to help this perron who is depressed or whatever

>> meat loaf: ttey're going -úto continue the humanity. >> smith: yeah. >> meat loaf: and -- >> smith: that, that's hopeful. >> meat loaf: yeah, nd, and, and the whole album speaks in metaphors. i -- because i speak in metaphors constantly. but when you get -- like the second song iving treeesays i want to get back to living like i dii before with my mattress on my floor and no food in my kitchen. >> smith: right. >> meat loaf: that's not happen. what i, what i'm really saying is and what that song is really saying is, listen i've had all hese things happen in my life, but you know what? i need to get backkto who i aa was.eat loaf: -- and who i and, and i've always tried to be who i am. i've allays, my quote has always been i'm like popeee the sailor man. i am ho i am and that's all that i am. >> smith: i am who i am -- i love that. >> meat loaf: and i, and i, i'm always -- and people

go -- i'm always amazed, truly amazed when i walk nto somm place and somebody knows who i am because i don't think of myself in that light. i'll get into a roommwith like a de niro anddppoppe like thha and i'll go, wow, i'm ii a room with all these people, and there's me, too. >> smith: you know what? thinking i'm in a room with meat loaf. >> meat loaf: but tteealbum is fantasttc. >> smith: yeah. been a, a great pleasure talking to you. >> smith: well, let's hopp that the album is as successful,,if not 43 million copies, then let's get a bunch oo copies sold. you know, i'll settle forow, this grouu listening to it here. [laughter] >> smith: okay, good. i think e got -- i think we got a few covered over here. meat loaf, an honor to meet you. >> meat loaf: oh, niie to meet you. >> smith: congratulations on everything. thank you very much, meat loaf, very welcome.3 [ applaase ]

>> funding for overheard with evvn smith is provided in part by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy and its global health care consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the mattson mchale foundation in support of and also by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. and also by tte alice kleberg reynolds foundation and viewees like you. thank you.