tv Taiwan Outlook PBS September 17, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
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leaf? will syria into the uranian nuclear standoff -- the nuclear standoff? the hour begins in the newsroom. >> these are the headlines. failing to ci two i, russia disagrees with france that a u.n. report fails to prove syria used chemical weapons last month. a gunman who killed 12 people in washington navy yard on monday as identified as a navy contractor. stage one complete, after a 19 hour operation, the wreck of the costa concordia is turned up right. first, a day after a u.n. report confirmed that chemical weapons were used in damascus last month, a visit by french foreign
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minister to moscow has highlighted sharp divisions over who used them. rents, which pushed -- which pushed for military action, france said it was the syrian regime and wants russian support for a stronger yuan resolution. moscow says it is likely the rebels are to blame. >> despite the smiles for his russian opposite number, on tuesday he failed to make moscow shift its stance on syria. on monday a report by u.n. inspectors confirmed the use of chemical weapons in a deadly attack on a damascus suburb last month. still, there is no consensus on whether bashar al-assad or syrian rebels were to blame for the strike. >> the report shows that the syrian regime was chemical massf august 21. >> we want the events of the 21st of august to be
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impartially, objectively, professionally investigated. we have serious grounds to believe there was a provocation. >> echoing the russian line, china called for a fresh investigation to determine responsibility for the massacre. there is also disagreement on how to implement a plan fleshed out last week in june him and -- in geneva to eliminate chemical weapons stocks. it would leave open the possibility of military strikes if syria fails to play ball. moscow is taking a different tack. >> the security council resolution will not be based on chapter seven. we said that clearly in geneva. the document on which we agreed contains no mention of this. >> damascus has agreed to hand over its chemical weapons while rejecting blame for the august 21 massacre.
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on tuesday, the syrian foreign minister said western governments are trying to impose their will on the syrian people. >> it emerged a short while ago that the u.s., russia, britain, france, and china will meet in new york this tuesday to discuss that draft un security council resolution on syria. meanwhile, on the ground, a car bomb exploded on the syrian side of a border crossing with turkey, killing at least seven people and injuring 20, according to the turkish news agency. it happened at a roadblock manned by hard-line islamist fighters, several hundred meters away from the turkish side. in egypt, the muslim brotherhood's main english- language spokesman has been arrested along with two other brotherhood officials. these latest arrests in a crackdown that started after president mohamed morsi was ousted at the start of july. here is our correspondent from
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cairo. x this is the latest high profile arrest of a muslim brotherhood member in this crackdown on the brotherhood. he was arrested with two other muslim brotherhood members today near where one of those big pro- morsi citians was located and where he regularly gave fiery speeches on the stage there. a warrant was issued in early july. why he is important is that he was the main muslim brotherhood spokesman for the international media. he appeared often as a guest on a well-known channel and has always been very active on social media, publicizing the muslim brotherhood's version of events. he is pretty high up in the brotherhood hierarchy. he served as chief of staff to the now imprisoned deputy brotherhood leader and is the son of a former aide to the
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deposed resident muhammad morsi. it was a high profile arrest for them. >> in other news from egypt, a military officer has been shot dead by gunmen this morning northeast of cairo. three soldiers were injured in that attack. this according to security officials. two washington, d.c., where flags aren't half-mast after investigators try to determine what drove a former navy reservist to go on a rampage at nab installation, killing 12 people. 34-year-old alexis died in a gun battle with police. authorities say he acted alone. our washington correspondent took us through the u.s. papers. >> there are certainly questions being asked as to how he was able to get in so easily. he was a contractor, he had the access card, meaning he was not searched as he walked in and out
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of the navy yard complex, even know he may have only been working there a few weeks. one indication of whether this is turning into a debate about gun control or access comes from today's papers. the new york times remaining very factual indeed. there is no editorial in here about access to guns or access to navy facilities, just the facts on the front page here. you have to go to the tabloid sometimes to get a little bit more of an opinionated view. that is where the new york daily news comes in. they say "same gun, different slay." let's have a look at the washington post. it describes the rampage at navy yard and inside there is an editorial saying let's have a look at this, this might have been that one shooter too many.
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that is the question that tends to be asked and very rarely is answered. just to give you something without comment at all, just to show you what kind of context this is in, on the back page is an advert for an armed company with a fighter jet on their. that is the kind of context we are living in. >> for people have been killed by gunmen in austria. the interior ministry says the suspect has been firing sporadically at police while holed up in a farm building west of vienna. two police officers and the driver of an emergency rescue vehicle were killed overnight. another officer who had been missing was found earlier this tuesday, shot dead in his patrol car. more than 40 people have been killed in twin storms in mexico. they left a trail of destruction, including in the
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resort town of apple go, where tens of thousands were stranded -- in the town of operable taca. >> tropical storm ingrid and the remnants of tropical storm man well left -- tropical stormmanuel left instruction in their wake in the worst storm since 1958. >> up until now, the storms have affected two thirds of the entire national territory. with just three states that have not been affected. >> manuel made landfall on sunday on mexico's pacific coast. the tropical storm caused devastation in the resort town of acapulco, killing at least 21 people. much of the city was left isolated without water or power.
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the gulf coast was still trying to recover from hurricane ingrid , with tens of thousands of people evacuated from their homes. ingrid has now been downgraded to a tropical storm, but heavy rain is still expected as it moves to the northeast of the country. >> it took quite a bit longer than planned, but they have managed to write the costa concordia. it is hoped the bodies of two of the victims will be located soon. >> finally upright, the cruise liner lay flat for 20 months on the seabed. getting it vertical took 19 hours. teams worked through the night until dawn tuesday. when the job was done, the first stop was a local bar for a beer. >> we are obviously very satisfied with how things have worked out.
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we are satisfied because despite the complexity of the procedure, the way we envisaged things did take place. >> the damage to the vessel is massive. the starboard whole crushed. >> we were expecting to be harder. >> 500 engineers, 26 nationalities in all worked on the salvage project for more than a year. the ship is due to be towed away next spring at the earliest after being re-floated. the salvage operation is the most complex and expensive ever attempted on such a liner. the call so far, 600 million euros and rising. >> that is it from the newsroom for now. time to cross to françois for the debate. >> is western airstrikes against syria off the table for now,
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diplomacy is suddenly all the rage in washington, paris, and moscow. readings like the one between the russian and french foreign ministers on tuesday are grabbing attention. in fact, there is growing anticipation that talks could get even more interesting next week when the world converges on his most famous talk shop, the united nations of new york. the white house says for now, there are no plans for iraqi's new president to meet barack obama. for all the attention we have been giving to russia, have we been overlooking iran? besides being a key backer of bashar al-assad and syria, he has made overtures to tone down the rhetoric over tehran's nuclear ambitions. in a nation where the final say goes to the conservative supreme guide, we will try to sort through some of the conflicting messages we have been receiving.
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is iran opening up? is now the time for washington and tehran to talk? with us to talk about it, she runs the farsi language news website online. welcome back to the france 24 debate. a french political scientist is with us, and from washington, patrick clawson, and from israel, from the institute for counterterrorism. welcome to all of you. the france 24 debate, where you can join the conversation on facebook and on twitter. there has been confirmation of an exchange of letters between barack obama and rouhani.
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we asked you, should obama meet rouhani? yes, if iran signals and interest first. they have to make the first move first. so it is up to iran to make the first move, he says. on twitter, show faith on both sides. the only way to begin a dialogue is if both sides participate. michael asked, what would the talks be about? syrian supporting nuclear issues could be discussed. overall, a lot of people saying do you agree? >> yes, because -- the best time to do that, lots of coincidences
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, which is very much interesting. in our religion, we have two ima ms which are very important because they represent different ways of life. hassan is the one who compromised. now one is in new york in the other is under house arrest. at the same time today, the official agency and tehran has published a book about the compromise of the prophet hassan .
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a book has been translated, the most glorious compromise of the world. you put all these things together and reach the conclusion that you think that is going to happen. >> they are dropping a very heavy hit. patrick clawson, we know that barack obama has been accused by the hawks of being a little bit soft. can he politically afford to be seen shaking hands with iran's president after those hints? >> the big risk with an unscripted presidential meeting is that it is going to raise very high the expectations that there is going to be an agreement soon. and if, in fact, those expectations are not met, this is going to be a big disappointment on both sides and a very dangerous situation for iran, the united states, and the
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world. having an unscripted presidential meeting, just on the basis of what are very promising hints, as suggested, it is a risky policy is we don't know yet if the two sides have quietly explored whether there is going to be a basis for a breakthrough. certainly ramanrouhani wants a . many were more dismissive of a deal. we don't know if the terms that iran is going to be prepared to accept will meet the requirements of the p5 plus one. france has been insisting on the toughest terms of that negotiation. >> laying the groundwork for perhaps what is to come, barack
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obama granted a sunday morning interview with abc television in which he said the iranians understand the nuclear issue is a far archer issue for us than the chemical weapons one. the threat against israel and a nuclear iran is much closer to our core interests. my suspicion is that the iranians recognize they should not draw less than that we haven't struck. what they should draw is that there is the potential of resolving these issues diplomatically. do you agree there is the potential to resolve these issues diplomatically? >> i think it is not possible to make a meeting if there is not already serious agreement between the two sides. otherwise, it could be catastrophic. the u.s. president and the
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iranian president. the stage of letters that we know about now is not sufficient . if this is the only exchange of letters that happened, it was [indiscernible] i think the issues are so difficult, i don't think such a meeting is possible. >> i am counting up the numbers here. two people think it is too risky to have this handshake now. what do you think? >> i think the question is not the handshake. the question is the point of view of which side, are they
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really eager to discuss? symbols matter, but more important are the intentions of either side. the intention of the stronger one is what matters most. will the usb be eager to want to talk to iran? do they want some sort of deal? the regime of mao zedong was much worse than anything people can say about the iranian regime. what is important now is to talk with the iranians to make sure there is stability in iran and afghanistan.
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>> between having a handshake and not having a handshake, there is a third way. the possible thawing of relations between tehran and washington. front-page page news in monday's edition of the guardian, a review of the pros and cons of what is called core door diplomacy. there you see barack obama in the company of hugo chavez. the fancy meeting you here school of foreign is not a long and proud history as a tool for whether or not they want to be seen together. what if chance would have it that they meet? >> 15 years ago, then-president bill clinton spent 45 minutes pacing in the basement of the united nations, waiting for what was supposed to be an accidental meeting with the iranian president, who never showed up. that left a very bad taste in
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the mouth of the clinton administration, and indeed of u.s. officials generally. while cora door meetings -- co rridor meetings have a long history, the united states is not going to want to go through this again. they will want to have some indication that if there is going to be a meeting arranged, that rouhani will actually show up. >> the exchange of letters we have been talking about is also in the context of band team and -- ban ki moon. let me ask you this question, patrick clawson. he has his u.n. hat, when he went in august 2 tehran. do you think that he did go
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bringing those messages in person when we are talking about the exchange of letters, and there may be more than just a congratulatory message for the new president of iran? >> certainly the iranian press refer to him repeatedly as a senior u.s. official. mr. feldman had been very involved in the iran file when he was working for the obama administration. there was a long tradition of you and officials informing other countries about the course of their discussions. i would assume that in fact, mr. feldman came to washington and informed the obama administration in some detail before he went, what he planned to say, and after he came back, what he said and what the iranians said to him. >> we can assume we are beyond the point of just breaking the ice. >> correct. the question is, how much
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further can we go? it is disappointing they have not named who is sit negotiating partner. >> on that point, when he sat down with the u n secretary- general last friday, the as the u n secretary-general whether sanctions against iran are still very much on the table. >> it is important for iranians to prove that they are genuinely sincere. since this is a new government, a new president, i think we need to give some time for them to prove themselves. it's a dual government, a dual president, i guess what he is referring to is that you have on one hand the elected president
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and on the other hand you have the senior clerics. is there a battle right now inside iran between the moderates and the conservatives? i have heard some iranians say it is all stage managed and everything is coming from above. do you think there is a battle? >> there is a battle everywhere. but first of all, i would like to say that we should not reduce the policy to hassan ramanrouhar assad. >> he has sent different soldiers and all sorts of tactics and strategy. he has not said anything. sometimes you prove somebody and disapproves the other one.
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khomeni is also backed by different groups. inside his office, there are so many different tendencies. there are different clergy's. >> just to give an example of all that, on monday, the new president went to see the revolutionary guards and told them effectively to stay out of politics. this kind of statement, is this a message to the conservatives, or just something that is stage- managed? >> not really. khomeni gave a speech and he said they are the guards of the revolution, so they must be careful and they must pay
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attention to all these sort of movements. they should not neglect it. the question of our in iraq is not solved at all. -- the question of power in iraq is not solved at all. you can see this battle is going on, and here is the result. >> is there a battle going on between the conservatives and the more moderates inside of iraq right now? quickset is what we say and when one is out of fashion, it is coming back in. he came closer to the people who are more reformist like. he has been playing different groups with one another. when you talk about iran, we talk about different groups
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fighting. what they have in common, they are nationalists. that is why you sometimes see reformist from a western point of view. they are much more for the right to have a nuclear force than some conservatives. people think of reform being old grade and swiss like democratic actors. they're always divided, and at the same time very united for working with the united nations. >> i guess we could expect -- should we expect benjamin netanyahu to effectively make the repeat of this page -- of a speech he made last year where he showed a cartoon drawing of a bomb to show how close iran is
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getting to its nuclear aims. >> we should be skeptical, knowing very well the history of negotiations for the last 20 years. this could be a new tactic by ir ani leadership. i think the election of rouhani was at the direction of the spiritual leader. therefore, everything that happens now must be in line with his thinking and his policy. clearly they would be cautious
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fru out the day we will bring you the latest developments from our special correspondents and experts. don't miss our election special at 6 p.m. paris time. germany's parliamentary elections, live on france 24. >> before we resume the france 24 debate, let's give you a sample of the stories we will be following at the top of the
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hour. the russian foreign minister dismisses the u.n. report as proof syrian regime used chemical weapons on its own people. the find -- five permanent memos are set to consider later a resolution on the matter. the alleged gunman in that washington navy yard shootout was described as a young man with an interest in buddhism and flashes of rage. 34-year-old aaron alexis took two handguns from a police officer at the scene. stage one complete after 19 our operation complete. the wreck of the costa con courtier turned upright off the coast of italy. it will be several months before it is towed away. >> so stories and more for you at the top of the hour, right here on france 24. this is the france 24 debate. is it time to talk between
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washington, the west, and iran? we have been talking about it with our panel. with us from israel, from the institute for counterterrorism, and patrick clawson with the washington institute for near east policy. welcome back to all of you. we were talking just before the break about the skepticism of the israelis going to that u.n. annual assembly where leaders will all make speeches, easing off on airstrikes against syria sparking disappointment and concern on the part of the israeli cabinet. >> the determination the international community shows regarding syria will have a direct impact on the syrian
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regime's patron, iran. iran must understand the consequences of its continual defiance of the international community by its pursuit towards nuclear weapons. >> patrick clawson, to what extent will the words of netanyahu way on what the americans decide when it comes to the iranians next week in new york? >> the attitude he was just expressing is widely shared here in the united states. netanyahu's views are so widely shared in congress in particular, but also among the american public, that there is some deep skepticism about an agreement with iran. for one thing, the agreements that france, britain, and germany worked out with iran 20
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years ago -- 10 years ago were respected by iran for only a short time. within less than two years, iran was back doing a full war with its nuclear program. so there is skepticism that even if it agreement is reached, it will be implemented on a sustained basis. that is one of the reasons why the united states and iran are discussing some confidence building measures as a first step in any kind of an agreement, so that each of the two sides, which is distrustful of the other side, can have more confidence in the other before we proceed to the bolder steps of a full agreement. >> obviously it is impossible to keep the nuclear conversation separate from the serious conversation. what we have seen in the past months is how the iranian backed movement -- there are iranian
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military observers and more than observers helping the regime of bashar al-assad. is the question blowing hot and cold, or could all of that change in e >> when you look at syria, it is supporting one of its oldest allies. the people who could take over ou or. combined with the nuclear issue, at the end of the day, what is going on in syria is a question of geopolitics.
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the question of israel versus iran, a lot of things are going on linked with politics. iranians are supporting bashar al-assad in helping to create a militia. on the other hand, you have saudi arabia and other states including western states where they are not permitting them to come to syria. there is no morality here. at the end of the day, it is just about a lot of power.
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>> we have heard the israeli answer -- ambassador to the nice state saying that aside has to go. that is fear of the powerback to men all those radical sunnis taking over. isn't that something that is present in israel as well? >> he used it to fight israel as proxies. we don't know how the investigation will finish. not only he loses his only arab ally in the middle east, it weakens his line with barack obama.
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it is influenced also by the situation in iraq. turkey and saudi arabia are opponents of the united nations. if assad could move something internally. >> we can now welcome to the conversation a candidate in iran's presidential election. he teaches at rutgers university and joins us from new brunswick, new jersey. thank you for being with us. do you agree that it is no going back for iran's support for syria e >> no, i don't agree. i think iran is prepared to make a major compromise.
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after all, i ran itself is in trouble with the western powers, the u.s. in particular. second, i think i ran -- he ran would -- iran would prefer to forgo assad as a person. iran would not go for total submission of the government to elements that are fighting it, including al qaeda and so on. iran is very nervous and concerned about it. they could make a deal over. the following way, that aside go, -- assad go, and some of the major
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parts of the opposition could come together in a general election or in a coalition government. then i think iran would accept it. iran is prepared to let aside go -- to let assad go. i think assad's family has been around for a long time. it is time for a change. it is unfortunate that this family would be so long in this situation. iran had no problem with that, but who replaces assad is a major issue. they could come together over a coalition government that replaces assad and keeps the countries integrity preserved
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for a better future for the syrian people. there are millions of people who have to return to their homeland, after all. >> let me bring patrick clawson in on this. do you agree that iran would be ready to forgo asad as a person, as he just said? >> the most important point of recent developments is the united states has shown that it is prepared to do a deal with the assad regime over chemical weapons and ignore all the other differences. that suggests the united states would do the same with iran, which is to say do a deal over the nuclear issue and ignore all the other differences. the united states made well be prepared to have quite a limited deal with iran that ignores all the other tissues of the --
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ignores all the other issues and concentrates on the one issue of the weapons of mass destruction. that is not something iran is expected from the united states. the supreme leader has been afraid that the united states was using the nuclear issue as one excuse to go after the islamic republic, and if the nuclear issue was settled, the west would then turn to other excuses to go after the islamic republic. what obama has shown is that washington is prepared to do a deal just about weapons of mass destruction and ignore absolutely everything else. >> on the issue of iran's involvement inside of syria, a lot of talk about images that have been coming out from syria. dutch television broadcasting a report that includes footage brought out of serious that appears to be filmed by and iranian crew. how that footage got to the
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>> he had no official military presence whatsoever in syria. therefore if there is video or other propaganda, it should be considered in a different framework. >> what is the reaction to this footage that has been coming out that you have seen? x as an iranian or what? >> how do iranians feel about the country's involvement? >> especially after all this bloodshed in syria, they have said that you are not there, but we know that they are there. last month, a commander of the revolutionary guard said officially they are there and they said that syria is more important. i have contacted so many people, journalists and everybody.
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they don't want to have any contact. they are not happy about it. >> it is not that there is shame, disappointment or opposition, not ashamed. remember, there are two irans. there is an iran that is revolutionary, it is controlled by the military and security forces and many other religious and nonreligious institutions. then there is a second iran that includes the majority of the iranian people plus the government. i mean the government, not the state. this iran is much more moderate,
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much more cautious and more pragmatic. it is not revolutionary in its stance. therefore, this second iran does not want him involvement in areas where it is none of their business. they want the money that is used at home for employment of young people or picking food up and so on. it still supports the revolutionary idea that being involved in syria and hamas business, they are not ashamed or even disappointed. there are people who want to expand iran's power beyond their homeland into the region. that exist in contradiction to
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the second iran that is more moderate, more pragmatic. >> larger but smaller in terms of power. it sort of flies in the face of what you said earlier, which is when it comes to foreign policy, iranians tend to be nationalistic. >> you can be nationalistic and at the same time you can have a good heart. you can not really accept to support bloodshed, violence, and things like that. there is a difference between the morality of a private citizen and the morality of a state. it is sad to say, but that is how politics work. i find it interesting that we are asking our iranian friends, are you ashamed about has by law -- abouthezbollah?
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>> i was going to say, when the uprising began, civilians at go demands of civil liberties throughout the arab world. as the conflict has gone more militarized, the power vacuum has been filled by hard-liners and syria has become the battleground for radicals on both sides of the sunni-shiite divide. does that reflect public opinion? public opinion throughout the region. >> in the region, broadly speaking, you can go as far as afghanistan and pakistan. you have the feeling it is more sunni against shia situation. >> like the general said in that clip, this is god versus the nonbelievers. >> people on the other side are
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saying exactly the same thing. we want to see if it is genuine or not. we need to be very careful in the middle east about this kind of proof. this is very good proof after weeks of talking about all these jihadist actors being more and more important. the west has a big responsibility on the way things evolve in syria. we should not support the moderates at the beginning. it could have helped syria democratize. we let them down, and now the only people, 70% [indiscernible] >> patrick clawson, we have done a lot of discussing about syria on this set over the last month, and when it came to syria,
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everybody described a sort of maelstrom of descent into this horrible extremist, intolerant view of these fighters who are occupying the p the one hand, ys very dark situation in syria. we have had a discussion trying to point to perhaps positive signs between iran and the west. they are contradictory. >> one of the unfortunate realities is that it is more likely that the west can't reach a nuclear deal with the islamic republic in iran if the west agrees it will not support civil liberties and democracy inside iran. and the developments over the last month in syria, as sad as they are, certainly suggests that there is limited enthusiasm in the west for supporting those who are more moderate and fighting for civil liberties
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inside syria. so this may suggest to the iranian government, actually we could do a deal with the west, because the west will leave the islamic republic in power, so long as the islamic republic agrees to compromise about its nuclear weapons, and the west will ignore issues about democracy and human rights in iran. i don't think that is good for the iranian people or for the west's interests, but it makes a possible deal over the nuclear issue easier to reach. >> ignoring could prove more and more difficult. you see for instance the sectarian violence spiking dramatically in iraq, not just syria where there is a lot of violence on a daily basis. how long can israel stand on the sidelines while sunnis and shia radicals fight each other?
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>> the main conflict is a conflict between the sunni and the shia. inside this main conflict, there are sectarian conflicts. for instance, the kurds and pakistan. it is a very complicated and complex situation. the uprising in syria began peacefully. the brutality brought radicalization to the situation. iran has some role in this because they supported from the beginning of the assad regime. so it is a very complex situation.
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the stakes are very high. it is very difficult to reunite syria, in my opinion. that is why i think the iranians and the arabs, [indiscernible] we don't know if the conflict is bringing radicalization in the middle east. >> a possible balkanization like we saw in yugoslavia at the end of the 1990s. your thoughts just reacting to that issue that the push for democracy could get thrown overboard in all of this. >> i did not get your question. >> do you agree that the push for democracy inside iran will
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get thrown overboard? >> no, never. >> we will leave it there. i want to thank you for joining us for new brunswick, new jersey, patrick clawson from washington, d.c. before we go, there is one aspect of this story that we haven't talked about so far. we are going to say hello to james. it was about 24 hours ago. we are suddenly getting tweets from inside iran saying the filters that keep facebook and twitter censored have been lifted. there was a flurry of activity, and then we got a statement from the authorities saying no, it was a technical glitch. >> it is a bit of a mystery exactly what happened. just to show you some of what we
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are seeing online in the last 24 hours. twitter and facebook return to iran. you had tweets coming out, my first legal tweets from iran. you can see he has not tweeted since then, so it looks like things went back to their original situation, which is that twitter and facebook are not accessible unless you use proxies are complicated means of getting around, which a lot of people do. is it the fight between moderates and hard-liners the fact that it appeared and the then disappeared again? the president of iran has a facebook and twitter account as does the foreign minister and others. some say that rouhani is promising to free up the internet eventually, while other hard-liners, including the head
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of the supervisory board of the internet, is very much against lifting those filters and said recently it is not time for lifting them. could it have been a battle between moderates and hard- liners? one journalist told france 24 that is not the case. we spoke to journalist in tehran who said absolutely not. this was a case of a technical problem. what could the explanation be? apparently google lust is now -- google plus is not accessible. it could be they were updating the firewall, updating that system and in that process of updating the firewall, they left the door open. that seems to be perhaps the most likely explanation. >> i want to thank our panel, and we thank you for joining us here at france 24 today.
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>> welcome to busy asia america. we start with the actor matt a monday shooting rampage -- with the aftermath of monday's shooting rampage here in washington. there will be three separate reviews of security. daniel is at the scene with more. >> the white house, the department of defense, and the navy are all going to be conducting their own separate securi
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