>> hello and welcome. coming up, the debate. revenge for the revenge attacks. egypt's army swooping on islamist strongholds in the outskirts of cairo. flashpoints. last month, the crackdown on the muslim brotherhood began. it is still very much a work in progress.

the president was forced underground. is it to be radicalization all around in the arab world's most populous state? egypt, the crackdown. that is the debate. we will also be checking in with james in our media segment. let's say hello again to claire. >> thank you. these are the headlines. molly's new president thanks his neighbors for their help. egyptian security forces clashed with armed groups in a town near cairo. more than 50 people have been arrested. and it ran will never -- iran will never develop nuclear weapons. that is what prsident was on he promised the american media and ahead of -- that is what the president promised the american media ahead of the u.n. general assembly.

we start with the inauguration of the new president of mali. he pledged to focus on security andonciliions. >> after the nightmare we have experienced in our recent history, i would like to promise the following, never again. to our neighbors who trembled due to the crisis in molly do -- mali to the countries that suffered collateral effects, i would like to promise the following, never again. to the forces who fought against the forces of evil so that our people could live in peace, never again will they need to. >> france led the anti-rebel operation. at the ceremony, francois hollande played homage to the soldiers that died in combat. he encouraged them to open a new

page and said they could still rely on friends's help. -- france cost help. >> -- france's help. >> we will stay by your side until you are no longer under threat. we will maintain the required and necessary armed forces, especially in countries nearby, to help african forces in responding to any type of threat, because it is for the africans first and foremost to ensure their own security. >> marc perlman followed that inauguration for us. earlier, he told us president cato is going to need his neighbors continuous support to keep the peace. >> we have military support, especially france's, but now, diplomacy is supposed to be at

work, trying to reconcile the country, especially with the northern regions that have been marginalized and that have been asking for more consideration, more revenue from the south of the country. for this, the president clearly needs the support of the countries. that is why it is quite interesting and telling to see the king of morocco travel here for the first time in 50 years, as well as the president of tunisia and the prime minister of algeria. clearly, france is the key partner, and he will need all the support he can get financially, diplomatically, to make sure that the country is united as he has promised it will be. >> in south africa, a government commission investigating last year's massacre of 34 striking miners by police says the police force has lied, withheld

documents, and doctored all the papers. in a very blunt statement issued this monday, they said they even had to search computer hard drives of officers to discover documents about those august shootings. to egypt where security forces have clashed with government forces near cairo. authorities say a senior police officer has been killed. this as the army backed government moves to reassert control over the area where militants staged a bloody attack on police stations last month. >> third dean -- searching door to door as police search to restore order. there has been little sign of state authority in the village since august 14, when the police station was hit with rocket propelled grenades and torched, killing at least 11 police officers. military police eagles quickly entered the town, using tear gas

to aid their dance. sporadic gunfire has wrung out. authorities say they have arrested several men and seized guns and other weapons. a daytime curfew has been imposed after a don raid turned deadly. a senior security officer was killed in the crossfire. some residents say they are worried about their safety. >> my children and i are leaving because we will not be safe. we are going to stay with relatives for a couple of days until everything goes back to normal. >> the crackdown is part of a wider effort to restore order over areas loyal to mohamed morsi. unrest the between islamists and security forces has surged since morsi was forced out of office in july. i ran's president has said his country has not sought and will

never seek nuclear weapons. this is another sign that the president is eager to improve relations with the u.s.. thomas waterhouse reports. >> after years of hostility and failed negotiations, has be great saw begun? i ran's new president took a more -- great thaw began? iran cost new president took more conciliatory tone and said he has complete authority to negotiate a deal with the west regarding the nuclear program. >> we have never pursued or sought a nuclear bomb and we are not going to do so. we have time and again said that under no circumstances would we seek weapons of mass distraction, including nuclear weapons, nor will we ever. >> he confirmed that letters up and exchanged between him and

the u.s. president since he came into office. for the time, the white house maintains that no talks are scheduled between the two leaders, but welcomes the new stance. the united states is ready to resolve the nuclear issue in a way that allows iran to demonstrate that its nuclear program is for exclusively peaceful purposes. the iranian president outlined a speech he intends to present next week. he warranted that the rent should not forget it had enemies but said -- iran should not forget it has enemies but said he is open to possibilities to see the crippling sanctions lifted. he maintained his election pledge in releasing several political prisoners, among them a human rights lawyer and key figure of iran's opposition movement. >> to greece, where the

government has hinted it might seek to ban gold and doeren. this after a supporter of the far right party admitted killing a musician. many mourners were tenting antifascist slogans. there were protests across the country. >> beset by economic uncertainty, the greek prime minister said his country must cling to social stability and avoid dissenting into violence. his words come after an alleged member of the neo-nazi party was arrested for the murder of a rapper. >> this government is determined not to allow the descendents of ot cease to poison our lives -- nazis to poison our lives. >> the murders part -- a murder sparked protests across the

country, but the party insisted was not behind the killing. >> i want to condemn this mockery and everyone who is exploiting the blood of a young man for political gain and in order to wage war against us. >> thursday, a makeshift memorial was set up for the rapper who was remembered as an anti-fascist activist. >> the fact that they have become so possible -- popular should make our politicians think. if they had being more careful, this never would have happened. >> greece's financial crisis has increased tension. some voters have abandoned mainstream parties for those on the far right and far left. recently, the fascist party's popularity surged to 12%, largely thanks to their anti- austerity stance. >> that is all for him -- all

from the newsroom for now. now, time for the debate. >> call it payback for the -- payback. for the second time this week, egyptian police storming an islamist stronghold on the outside of cairo. this time, the area where 11 officers were murdered and related last month. revenge warrants revenge attacks. one police general has been killed in the gunfire exchanges. meanwhile, authorities continue to round up supporters of mohammed morsi on suspicion of incitement to violence. the brotherhood has not been banned yet, but has effectively been driven underground. makeshift bombs were diffused on thursday in the cairo subway.

is egypt braced for radicalization all around? the army chief is being encouraged to run for president. has the old guard effectively regain the upper hand for good? with us to talk about it, we will be joined in a moment from cairo by a risk consultant. with us in the studio, a dominator denounces the violence in egypt and offense -- a man who denounces the violence in egypt and defends the muslim brotherhood. we have often spoken of egypt in the early 1990s when the suspension of elections led to a decade of civil war. with this, two gentlemen who know that situation well. thank you for being with us. former u.s. diplomat william jordan, thank you for being

back. you can always join the conversation on facebook, twitter. now, it is not just on the outskirts of cairo. police moving in in the last few days in at least three locations. we have more on this story now from catherine. >> searching door to door as police seek to restore order. there has been little sign of state authority in the village since august 14 when the police station was hit with rocket propelled grenades and torched, killing at least 11 police officers. military and police vehicles quickly entered the town, using tear gas to help their advance. sporadic up barricades around the outskirts.

authorities say they have arrested several men and seized tons and other weapons. a daytime curfew has been imposed after a dawn raid turned deadly, leaving a senior security officer killed in the crossfire. some residents say they are worried about their safety. >> my children and i are leaving because we will not be safe when the thugs come and hide in the pits behind our house, so we are going to stay with some relatives for a couple of days until everything goes back to normal. >> the crackdown is part of a wider effort to restore order to areas loyal to ousted president mohamed morsi. unrest between islamists and security forces has surged since morsi was forced out of office in july. >> we can go to cairo now and join our correspondent. first of all, is there a sign

that the skirmishes are over at this point in that neighborhood that is quite near the pier mids? -- pyramid's? wakes yes, the security forces here claim to be in the mockup stage. there -- mop up stage. there have been a number of arrests. police are securing the area. i think it is probably a fairly common belief among residents of that neighborhood that it is not over yet. or that we should wait and see. there is a concern that after the police withdraw, militants will resume their previous positions after going into hiding. it is going to be a question of a couple of days, whether or not government control maintains

itself. >> do we have any idea exactly who are these islamist militants exchanging gunfire? are they members of the muslim brotherhood? are they from groups that are more hard-line? >> we don't have much information on who they are politically, who they are affiliated with. that is probably one of the more concerning aspects of this is the possibility that this is widening beyond the brotherhood 's command and control. if the scenario was that the muslim brotherhood was coordinating these attacks, there is almost a silver lining. that gives you someone to negotiate with and the possibility that the brotherhood could rescind their order. but if it is out of their control, it is hard to even know who to negotiate with and how to

bring down the temperature a little bit. if we have individual cells or individual actors acting on their own. >> the brotherhood itself has not been banned. you are talking about how this could well be beyond the muslim brotherhood's command and control. if the brotherhood is banned, will that change anything further? will the situation deteriorate further? >> i am not sure that overtly, legally banning the brotherhood would change the situation in the short term. the government has been trying to deal with this situation for months. senior leadership has been rounded up. at this point, being a member of

the brotherhood is a de facto criminal act. they might as well be baned, but the issue of a band has very strong medium and long-term implications. if the organization is banned, it becomes impossible for them to return in any way to the political sphere, whereas if they remain legally sanctioned, legally permitted, that offers them the incentive that they could return to normal political life. but in the short term, a ban on the brotherhood would not change a thing about the way the government is behaving. >> thank you for that update from cairo. i want to get that reaction to what -- the reaction to what has been said. the international community has tread lightly. you are hearing a correspondent say well, what we have right now is a situation where, if you want to tone it down, who do you

talk to? >> absolutely. the international community's message has been very clear to the egyptian regime. it needs to move beyond the sort of moment of national salvation into some kind of moment of national reconciliation or at least a dialogue among the political entities in order to avert moving past what i would call a point of no return. i'm sure we will talk a little bit more about it. one conjures up the image of algeria and what happened there 20 years ago. there was very clearly a moment when the army and the islamic salvation front passed the point of no return in terms of any real possibility of reconciliation. we are not there in egypt, but that is the whole point about the international community holding its breath and waiting

for the regime to respond to persistent appeals for some sort of national dialogue. >> not yet at the point of no return. do you agree? >> not yet, only because ejection opposition today -- i'm not justifying the muslim brotherhood. i am not a supporter. but i am anti-coup. today, i agree we are sharing the same side because the muslim brotherhood is also anti--coup. we are not in a dead end, but clearly, if the army continues to avoid the dialogue, we won't find any solution today.

violence will also remain. >> in the neighborhood of cairo, the police had to move in, right, because there was no longer law and order. the police station had been burned. it was a no go zone. >> a totally agree with you. the only problem as -- is, you do not judge a tree by its leaves. you judge it by the roots. you do not have to use violence. once you use it, there is no return to democracy. it is very simple. today was a very specific process. it was a democratic process. it takes a long time because 60

years of army oppression takes a long time to clean up. once you use arms again, there will be dead people, blood, always more blood. we are seeing the consequences in egypt. >> our correspondent earlier saying it is unclear at this point who the islamists are who have been arrested. that is important point to stress. we don't know who the hardliners are. authorities claim that two members -- and that -- authorities claim some of those arrested are members of a hard- line group that supported anwar sadat. it is at this point unclear, again, who are the hardliners in this case.

let me put this to you. what are your thoughts on new these people are? >> i do not have specialized information. i go and try to find it in reviews in magazines, try to see it with other people, but i would like to return to what he just said. it does not matter very much if the islamic brotherhood is banned in the short term or not. it does matter a lot. why? because banning them right now, at this point in time, is sending a strong message that we do not accept you as part of the political environment in our country.

the country is not all about the army. you have people, an organization that is well-rounded, well structured, that is the army. is it all of egypt? no. is the muslim brotherhood representing all of egypt? not at all. if you ban the parties, if they are separate, they will unite around his decision. that will give them a common enemy to coagulate around. even may be draining other actors from egypt or other countries. >> an issue we see popping up again, this climate of

radicalization. there was another bomb scare. authorities say they found two makeshift bombs in the cairo metro. there was an attempt on the life of the interior minister last week. since the ouster of president morsi, a lot of concern over increasingly brazen attacks on police and the army in the sinai desert. at one point, a whole busload of police officers were gunned down in broad daylight. william jordan, the focus on the sinai desert has suddenly become really important. why is that? >> because of israel and the camp david accords. the continued peace in sinai is critical to maintaining the security architecture of the camp david accord. if that becomes unstable or a breeding ground for possibly new

threats against israel, then you have a whole new crisis. >> again, just to talk about that. banning in opposition group, firstly, is undemocratic. secondly, in egypt, you have the army that is well organized, and you have the muslim brotherhood. today you have one million people directly linked to the muslim brotherhood, and then you have all these people who feel that the muslim brotherhood has the right opinion. banning them is like deleting their existence. that is what we saw under other leaders. it has brought nothing more to

the democratic rss. -- process. i don't think banning them will work. on the other side, if you do ban this group, they will feel like they are not ejection anymore. as you said, they will not participate in the new democratic process. what does that mean? him means it is either our way or nothing -- it means it is either our way or nothing. that is undemocratic. >> this from online, the muslim brotherhood must stop inciting violence. there have been cases documented, especially against the coptic christian community. >> if you want to prove that i am wrong, you have to bring me either material proof or logic.

reasonable logic. i do not believe these are institutions for violence. why? because most of the people that died either our muslim brotherhood or pro-morsi or anti-coup. those are the figures from the egyptian minister. and you have soldiers and policemen. these people did not die during the demonstrations. fate -- and they died in the demonstrations. >> we will pick up on this when we come back. stay with us.

>> welcome back. before we resume the debate, let's give you a sample of the stories we were following up the top of the hour. pump and circumstance in bamako with the new president leaving a place of honor at his inauguration for the president of france. france led the anti-rebel operation earlier in the year. a ran -- iran's president says his nation will never develop nuclear weapons. and vladimir putin pondering a fourth run for president in 2018. he says so at a conference. the russian president, who would be in power, if he did do it, longer -- the longest since

joseph stalin. we will have those stories and much more for you at the top of the hour. welcome back or welcome if you are just joining us. this is the debate where we are looking at the situation in egypt. the army has moved in on islamist stronghold's. with us to talk about it, and anti-coup activist who joins us here in the studio as well as the social sciences institute representative and a former u.s. diplomat, william jordan. by the way, the crackdown suddenly getting the attention of the international community with the death of a french

resident in police custody. he was picked up for breaking the nighttime curfew. authorities say he was killed by a cellmate. hollywood stars also among the 130,000 to sign online petitions for john grayson, who has been on hunger strike. he was trying to enter the gaza strip last month. the border crossing has been partially reopened since yesterday, but only partially. that had been well shot after the ouster of mohamed morsi by the army backed authorities. at this point, we were talking a moment ago about sinai and about the situation at the border with -- and you can see those images

of the crossing from wednesday. again, you get a sense when you look at this that we are back -- is as if time has rolled back to where it was before. >> i think, sure. military rulers in cairo want to make sure sinai stays as calm as possible, especially given that gaza is such a flashpoint with israel. egypt, historically, since the camp david agreement has been deeply involved in any and all efforts to try to keep things calm on the front. i should also mention that one of the other vital interest in terms of sinai is the suez canal, which of course is

important not only to egypt as a revenue earner, but also to the u.s. and other countries that regularly use it. i think what you seeing with this crossing is the army trying to put its stamp on everything having to do with security in the area, and it is meant to be a signal that it is reimposing fully it's a wordy and whatever -- authority, and whatever business there was under mohamed morsi and the governments, as far as crossing into gaza, it is the old regime back in power and clamping down hard. >> the old regime. now, the talk that goes beyond the military -- in egypt they call it the deep state. in algeria they call it the power. this idea that it is more than

just army that we are talking about. >> if you're asking me a definition i cannot give you a very educated one, but i can make a guess. >> when you look at the -- what is going on right now and everything we have been describing, is it the same? >> i have been hearing that a lot. >> is it the same as what happened in 1992? >> i have been hearing that a lot. >> at. authorities hit the pause button -- algerian authorities hit the pause button. islamist leaders were arrested and driven underground. an estimated 200,000 were killed in the ensuing decade of a murky civil war. it was never quite sure who was

shooting at who. >> i would like to make a point because words have their specific function in everything you say. if you come to the definition of terrorism, you need to know what you're talking about. a terrorist is an entity or somebody who would use disproportionate -- sorry. common means for disproportionate results in comparison with history. if you say that sammy will take a gun or a bomb and explode himself somewhere, these are small means but you can evaluate them. the loss of lives you cannot evaluate. this is one definition. >> but is algeria sirica 1992 similar to egypt circa 19 -- similar to egypt circa one 813?

>> that is where i would like to comment. -- circa 20 13? >> that is where i would like to comment. in algeria, no political mean was left on the table for different parties including the islamic salvation front. i heard many other parties saying well, we do not fear them to win because it will be a president and -- precedent and they will have to deal with democracy after that. meanwhile, i will recall personally what the main ideas were back then. no more police. no more security. algeria backed the complete disruption of the model of society, the relocation of the

independence principles that took us to independence from france. >> that was their platform. >> it was a platform of complete destruction of many things. you have this speech, and you have the other speech of the government officials that said well, ok, we don't need that and we're going to stop the process. >> william jordan, how far can we take the parallels? >> want to jump in and reinforce the point that i made it the top of this debate which is egypt is not yet at the point of no return, which quickly arrived in algeria. maybe you will disagree with what if that's what -- with some of what i am about to say. the military takeover effectively destroyed the political part of the islamist

movement in algeria. there was no longer a political process possible because the military of the word he said we are not going to do that. what then happened -- military authorities said we are not going to do that. what then happened was a military/terrorist struggle against the state which the regime responded to with its own war without mercy, and you ended up with this -- i don't ever call it a civil war. >> it very quickly got to the point of no return, you're saying. on twitter. egypt was shortsighted in their quest for change. it will be hard to return to democracy again. apologize for the spelling there. we are pleased to welcome a risk

consultant, former member of the interior, former cabinet member of the interior ministry, thanks for being back with us. cairo traffic could not keep you away. thanks for being with us here on the show. you heard william jordan just now say that egypt is not yet at the point of no return where there is no one who the authorities can speak to on the islamist side. do you of gree? >> well -- do you agree? >> well, yes, first, i agree. but first i have to emphasize a point. islamists and egypt are not the same. some are jihadist. both are groups tied to africa

and al qaeda. those we should not be discussing or negotiating. however, we have reached some solution with other islamist parties that they can participate, even those who relate to the muslim brotherhood, they can participate in political life, parliamentary elections, presidential elections, however, not under the entity, name or slogan of the muslim brotherhood any longer. this is not acceptable after one year of catastrophic economy and a catastrophic situation. so, we are trying to get a stronghold in sinai, trying to defend this. they find a terrorism friendly

regime represented by mohamed morsi. they have a few expectations about the next steps they can manage. >> so you are suggesting, for instance, the attacks that took lace last month -- took place last month against the police station, that this was somehow linked to the muslim brotherhood? >> well, of course. i have always believed that the muslim brotherhood is the umbrella where all the radical and islamic groups came from. if we trace back in the 1940s of the last century, the muslim brotherhood was the first to think about using islam as a way of ruling, governing, and even trying to reach this position -- >> but that was then, this is

now. >> this is now, yes, but they have many different reasons and different proofs that the muslim brotherhood are affiliated to those groups. they have witnessed together in official meetings. they attended meetings with them. they are present in the government. they even attended the ceremony of the six october victory with the army. it is not sacred. the muslim brotherhood is one of the most radical groups. not only this, there were presidential orders to pardon those that were condemned and sentenced to deat. not only that, he allowed other islamic radical groups to enter sinai from gaza. some nationalities even were and from accessing egypt.

>> i'm sorry, but what you're saying is completely false information. i know you are a police officer and you will support the army. >> i am not inventing anything. >> if you are saying that these people are in the muslim brotherhood, it is very easy to condemn someone who is not in front of you. >> i am not condemning anyone. there were presidential orders. >> and then you ask me for democracy? he is talking about -- >> no, no, no. >> this man, he doesn't know anything. >> islam has nothing to do with this. >> the egyptian constitution, it clearly mentions -- >> we are an islamic country. >> let me finish. >> one at a time. >> listen to me until the end. i want to talk.

the second article in the constitution clearly says that islam and carran koran is the bf the constitution in egypt. what is he talking about. he is talking about sinai. i do not know of someone here has been there. these people do not want good things for egypt. it was one of the top 10 best economies. 60 years after, we are not even a developing country. >> i am talking about facts. >> you are condemning someone who is not here, who cannot -- >> no sir. >> let's bring it back, please, to the issue by william jordan,

which is are we yet at the point of no return? the muslim brotherhood got 51% in the second round of the presidential election for their candidate. is putting all of their leadership in jail -- is driving them further underground and making the situation even more radical? >> sir, they are not attained. those people are in jail because they committed -- not detained. those people are in jail because they committed felonies. >> you -- this is something you cannot even prove. >> no, sir. no. >> it is very egypt. even a kid in egypt as you would

put him in jail. this system has been abolished. this was one of the first things to be abolished by the revolution. today, they have been putting it back. mubarak is out. >> and morsi is out too, by the way. >> the army is on the borders. this man is talking like we have democracy. today, all opposition is either in prison -- 19,000 people have been arrested. 3000 people have been dead in two months. it doesn't exist anywhere. >> how many bombs have we discovered? >> the army is on the border. >> how many police officers have been murdered? >> where is the civil society? he is a policeman. he does not have a place in government. >> why shouldn't a former official of the interior ministry have a legitimate place in speaking?

>> he put fifth teen -- 15 in different cities. 13 are military and to our police men. we had a revolution -- two are policeman. we had a revolution to drive them out and they are back. >> you have to agree -- >> i agree that the only way to find pieces of democratic process. no arms. no violence. this man is talking like there is a democracy when the country is cracking down economically. it is a shame. this man has to go home, go to sleep, wake up and take an aspirin. he is like a drunk man. >> let's keep it professional here. >> please.

>> sir, i am not using any slogans. i am alone enforcement person i'm speaking of evidence. morsi had declarations and orders to pardon some people who were condemned and sentenced to death. those people are now practicing terrorism against us. this is. in most of the countries across the world, they know what type of people they are. this is not news. how about those who voted for him? the vast majority of normal, ordinary citizens voted for morsi because they hated the old regime, the corrupt regime of mubarak. >> in the parliament, they did not vote for morsi.

in the constitution, they did not vote for morsi. it is and stay -- it is antidemocratic, anti-logic. we do not change the basis of the country. >> you are not the base of the country, by the way. >> i said the basis of the country, the basis of the constitution in an emergency situation. it has no logic. don't try to explain to me that this way will bring democracy. >> the constitution has not been issued yet. >> you choose already 15 persons to modify the constitution. there is no way you have to change it. there has to be an election. he wanted people to vote. he wanted people to have a democracy. you are not playing the game of

democracy today. >> please, excuse me, answer my question. democracy is all about voting, and when you have voted and appointed a president, so you throw everything away? >> i kill people to bring back the vote. that is the best way. >> who did you kill. >> please. >> this is animus language. >> the way to vote is the ballot. to count the people's votes. if you put people in the streets, it is uncountable. >> do you think you could even have 10 persons to the egyptians now? >> sorry? >> we will see.

>> i won't bring these people back to life. >> those who did not commit any crimes are free to go. i would not agree -- >> one at a time please. >> thank you very much sir. >> there is a constitutional council that has been appointed. there is also going to be elections afterward, and more and more, there is talk that the now defense minister might run. when we spoke august 19 after the crackdown had begun, he claimed it was the furthest idea from his mind. >> the will of the egyptian people is free. there will is free, they can choose whoever they want to roll of this well. -- rule them, and we are the guardians of this will. the armies and police are the

guardians of the will of the people to choose who their leaders will be. that is true. >> his supporters do not see it that way, and they are quite vocal about it. >> we see that the people have lived through harsh times during the brotherhood's rule and even before them. we want cc to run. we will force him to run. if he does not succeed, he will not be a defense minister because no president will accept a minister as popular as him. >> his popularity is not just because he stood against the brotherhood. it is also because he stood against america. if he decided to run, there would be no worthy opponent, because he would be the people's nominee and could easily have a landslide vick or he. -- victory. >> stood against america.

the general, by the way, on wednesday, was on the telephone with u.s. defense secretary chuck hagel, and communications have not been cut between the u.s. and egypt. >> of course. the u.s. is trying to avoid getting embroiled in all of this even though the u.s. is in touch with as many of the parties in egypt as possible to try to preach or push everyone into dialogue or discussion, to uphold rules of law as much as deal with the proliferating security concerns. whatever leverage the united states still has over the egyptian military, i think it is trying to exert in order to, as i said, keep this process going and make sure that the final

result is something that leads to a fair and more democratic reality in egypt then we have seen since july. >> is general cc the next president of egypt? >> it is hard to tell. if the guy quit being an officer and became a civilian citizen, he has the right to run. we cannot deny him his right. will he be president? think a lot of egyptians feel safe under what he is offering. it has been a long time since we listen to someone taking a place as a leader, as the president. the egyptian people see him as a potential successful president,

at least for the next three years. but the man has not even decided yet. >> i can see that you are shaking your head in disagreement. i want to leave it there. thank you for joining us from cairo. thank you for joining us here today.

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