>> welcome, you are watching debate. coming up, somalia hospital shabbat militia -- somalia's al -shabaab quick to claim responsibility for the attack. the mastermind stretch around the globe. with his handling of the siege,

has the president been rehabilitated in the eyes of the international community? due to stand trial for crimes against humanity at the international criminal court in november. that is all coming up in the debate. let's start in the newsroom. >> these are the headlines. investigators trying to piece together what happened at the westgate shopping mall. 60 people died in a four-day siege. pakistani soldiers sets of the district after most of their houses were destroyed in an earthquake. a cynical speech full of hypocrisy, the words of israel's prime minister unimpressed at the u.n.. iran says that his country poses

no threat to the world. first, take any aware flags aren't half-mast after the president declared three days of mourning at the end of a bloody siege. the official death toll stands at 72. an operation to clear the westgate shopping center is underway. the interior minister that kenya is getting help from foreign forensic teams. >> the interior ministry saying that there is external help going on at the moment. it has been the fate since the beginning of the process. is really guidance being given to try to rescue the hostages. we are hearing there are officers from scotland yard.

and various other agencies helping to comb through the building and piecing together forensic information. trying to assess if there is still a danger in the building. >> and the latest on the operation to clear the building act out we have heard of several floors collapsing. >> very confused it sure, even five days after the siege got underway. they declared that the siege was officially over. potentially when we had a comment from the government spokesman saying that the security service was still moving around the building and going into unknown territory. the local media has said that

the security forces fired heavy weapons. they raised some significant? 's about the safety of hostages in the building. and if you are moving, you are engaging the hostages. >> the death toll has risen above tree hundred. around 90% of the houses were destroyed. this has happened before. disappearing after heavy rain. >> images of the aftermath from tuesday's earthquake.

many survivors were left homeless. the largest but least populated province. it makes it difficult to collect video footage. and yet, buildings were still evacuated. >> i was working on my computer and i felt tremors. i thought i was feeling dizzy this but i found out that they were tremors. >> they are rushing troops and aid to the region. officials are investigating reports that it created a six meter island off of the nearby coast. >> barack obama says he was encouraged by the more moderate

course and found talks with the new president very useful. he said his country poses no threat to the world. they said it was cynical and full of hypocrisy. >> the iranian president told the united nations that iran was on a new path. >> they see construction of -- constructive engagement. >> they tried to break away from the strident anti-israel speeches of his predecessor. they ordered a boycott of this beach and denounced it as full of hypocrisy. >> what we are concerned about

is under the smokescreen of good intentions, iran is taking a page out of the north korean playbook. after confessing their commitment, they are building a nuclear weapon. >> they insist it is for peaceful purposes. israel remains unconvinced saying that iran has supported terrorism abroad. >> let me remind you that iran is number one sponsor of terrorism and of terrorist organizations. >> they were not satisfied with the egg knowledge meant of the holocaust. he should have gone further to condemn his predecessor for

previous denials. >> inspectors are back in syria. they are due to visit where chemical attacks were alleged to have taken place earlier this year. several rebel groups reject the authority of the main opposition alliance. 13 rebel groups led by al qaeda slammed the turkey-based coalition saying it no longer represent their interests. a man has been sentenced to death for killing a toddler. they threw the toddler to the ground after getting into a row with her mother over a parking space. she later died from her injuries in july in beijing.

the case is sparking outrage across the country. he says he was drunk and mistook it for a shopping trolley. brussels has threatened france with -- ending the policy of forced evictions. some 10,000 were made to leave makeshift camps. the country's minority are in confrontation with the french way of life. >> the interior minister is that the center of a storm once again over remarks he has made. he said they should go home. they reiterated the position. >> they are better off than

their own country and integrating their. they are better off returning. it should be very clear. >> certain leaders on the left are joining his camp. >> when they don't follow the rules, i support moves to return them to their country. >> imagine when he was the interior minister, if they took this position. all politicians would have been outraged. >> they see the statements as to right wing. >> a minister for 65 million people.

he should not behave in this way. >> amnesty international says their victims. -- says they are victims. they will have access to france and almost all eu states. >> day two of the general assembly, there was a meeting on the sidelies focusing on the central african republic. joined from you in headquarters, it was described as desperate at that meeting? >> it has been in the grips of a

rebel alliance known as celica since it swept into the capital last month. it dragged the president into exile and keeping the prime minister in power. they have been conducting a campaign throughout the country, not just in the capital, of looting, arson, and rape. well over one million of them have been displaced. and they are living through this every single day. it is effectively in the words of the prime minister, a catastrophic and total anarchy. the french foreign minister has been leading an effort to raise the alarm about this country and try to mobilize the international community. the french word basically means it has been reduced to a state of nothingness. even though we saw the prime minister and a former general speaking to reporters, the

general is a general of an army that no longer exists. except maybe a small part of the capital. there are 1100 soldiers right now that want a u n resolution to bolster this force and get to 3600 peacekeepers. it almost makes syria look like a moderately ok situation. >> that is it for this bulletin, time to hand over to françois for the debate. >> many unanswered questions after the bloodbath at the westgate mall. quick to claim responsibility as the siege unfolded. investigators combed the rubble for bodies and clues, allegations of careful planning

and putting the spotlight on recruitment grounds that stretches far a away as minnesota. the husband was one of the 2007 london underground attackers. we're also going to look at what comes next. and the recently elected president. the west putting aside the indictment of the criminal court to support the leader of a nation. they personally lost a nephew. with us to talk about it, and

also joining us, the french political science institute. welcome back to the debate. and from new york, clinton watched from the homeland security policy institute. you can join the conversation. #f24 debat. debate. let's spell some of them out. >> a lot of speculation but little concrete information as kenyans struggle to come to terms with the gruesome attack on the shopping mall. many want answers. >> some of the attackers are dead and others have been arrested.

we want proper investigation and for the truth to be told. should not start blaming people without knowing the truth. >> they hope to discover how an attack like this can happen. >> put there by al qaeda, they were in nairobi and stockpiled weapons, arranging for other members to arrive. they started to work towards these goals and that is why they were so capable of carrying out this operation. >> another murky area, who is behind the siege. the islamist group al-shabaab claimed the attack, but there was no direct information on the attackers identities. >> we want to request the public

and the international community to allow to determine the exact identity of the terrorists. >> the investigation gets underway. kenya is stepping up security in major cities. >> you were at the press conference by the interior minister. anymore word on what we just heard? >> i am standing not far from the westgate shopping mall. the press has been here at the last several nights and there have been so many questions with no answers. the purpose of the press conference today was to say that the investigation has moved into a forensic audit days -- phase.

but he could not confirm the reports of whether foreign nationals were in the attackers. we have many questions. >> did the president stand by that number? >> even those figures are changing. the resident said 67 were killed in the attack. three floors of the shopping mall have collapsed and there is believed to be several bodies in the rubble. we don't know if it is the attackers were civilians. the minister said that the number of civilians in the rubble is very insignificant.

no official confirmation that the death toll has mounted. the president said five attackers were killed. hearing reports of one dozen attackers. this investigation has to cover a lot now. >> the siege lasted 80 hours. what is your gut feeling? how many people do you need to hold a place like the westgate shopping mall? >> a lot of resources. they have chosen to carry out this assault for maximum impact. they had explosive devices,

rpg's, and assault rifles. >> they were successful in making the siege last for so long. >> there are few reasons why i believe that. they have conducted similar attacks. they use a combination of suicide bombings or attack squads.

i am not surprised they are taking credit for it. the last 18 months, conducting attacks outside the kenyans state. >> what is your reaction to have the siege could last this long echo >> it is evident that the al-shabaab wanted to try to show they're strong. they are able to be pushed out of somalia. it is a sad affair.

it doesn't necessarily mean that they are strong. we have this tweet, hoping things have improved by now. may they be in peace. you have written about this. what are the differences and the similarities? >> back to what you're talking about, how many militants does it take to hold a siege for so long echo the answer is not that many. they held the hotel.

the similarities and differences, there are many. high-profile locations. there is plenty of room for hostagetaking. the indian government blames a militant for the attacks. the attack came from across the border. and the responses over the last few days. we have entered into the final stages of the operation. in the end, this is a trip to

kenya. we need to look at where is shabaab, and how do they get to this day? now they have crossed the border. we need to examine that and we need to examine what sort of support they have. remember, groups can fight with each other, but they share expertise. >> you wrote for foreign policy. the fact that this attack is happening now, you were wondering if it was the death throw. you .2 divisions -- point to divisions with al qaeda.

>> when they had the merger, they say the group is getting stronger and it turned out to be a tipping point. the merger was forced, and forcing the merger to shore up his support, it led to several different things. a lot of defections and a rift between the u.s., canada, and europe. the most famous one being from alabama in the united states who worked publicly with him and

said he was being hunted by the leadership. >> we can show a video where he spells out that he had broken. >> i record this message today because i believe my life might be in danger. >> it brings us to the question of the timing of this attack. >> as has been said, it was basically week. it was also divided.

they succeeded in imposing that. so it might look as a last resort for this type of massive they have been pushed out. this is probably a diversion for them. >> how sure are we that what happened to kenya will never happen to us? >> we are looking at the consequences of those traveling to zones.

now what we see is people from outside. so it marks for me the existence where there are no more borders for these fighters. >> these questions are all that we ask. you don't need many people to cause a lot of mayhem? >> you can use inside access. although it has not definitively been figured out yet.

possibly serving weapons into that facility. in support. it has lots of refugees. likewise, there has been a lot of tension between muslims in recent years and the central state relating to the global war on terror. this could be representative of a larger base of support while a few people execute the attack. >> d-day refugees or kenyans.

the majority in the northeastern province. will there be a big backlash? >> i don't think so. if you look at the history of kenya, there have not been complex -- conflicts. it can be interpreted as some sort of muslim or christian sort of conflict. i don't think there will be backlash towards the people in office, but there might be a backlash by the government. >>our final thought on this before we go to break? >> with the somali community in nairobi, i can tell you that

they are very afraid of backlash. there are long-standing grievances of the community in the city and along the coast we have had for decades, sort of slimslamist groups that have caused all sorts of things. kenyans are united. this attack has brought them together. but there are problems. kenya has been home to a large community. for now, we have not seen any backlash. >> we will continue to talk about this when we come back.

>> we will be following the stories. the death toll right now topping the interior minister, giving a press conference. a cynical speech full of hypocrisy, iran's new president says the country poses no threat to the world. the death toll climbs to 300. we also follow the latest developments out of sudan's

capital where protesters have been killed by security forces and gathering momntum there. welcome back. we are looking for answers to that 80 hour siege. i should say nairobi at the westgate mall. here in the studio, a consultant from new york. they are the homeland security policy institute. the u.k. press has been running

with the story all week with the so-called white widow. our media watch segment. do we have any proof whatsoever that she is involved in wacko >> and norma's amount of speculation saying she may or may not have been implicated in this attack. just to stress that there is an extraordinary amount of risk coverage for this particular woman being called the white widow. it comes from the fact that her husband has been killed in 2005

in london. we have some here showing us. it was the first paper to point the finger at her this week saying that she might be indicated. peop say that they saw somebody matching her description. >> is there any sign she can be directly involved? >> the same story repeated over and over. we have no confirmation of that. not until they identify both people killed and captured. >> this speculation comes up again and again. no confirmation, but let' do a

very detailed profile about who this woman is. a middle-class white british woman. and in this article, they link other details. she said she was horrified and shocked by the fact that her husband was involved in terrorist activities. the end of 2010 saying that she has reportedly fleet to east africa. her belongings have been found near the coast, near mumbasa. -- mombasa. she is really a wanted woman and has been for a few years as proved by the program.

there was a special profile. it was rebroadcast in september, you can see what they are broadcasting now. they did a whole profile on her, how has this woman slipped through the net? is she still a real threat? what could she be plotting? whether she is a real threat or not, she is certainly making for good television, good media coverage. what is this media fascination? there are other international people that have been implicated as suspects. she is a woman, a convert, and

coming from an ethnically white background. >> we have talked about it together before. are their french equivalents, french citizens they grew up with no ties whatsoever? >> there are a few examples of this. people traveling there, traveling local decent. >> how many french citizens today are trying to go to syria or yemen?

>> between 150 and 300 people. what is remarkable is that i'll should bob -- al-shabaab has driven foreign fighters from the states. europeans and canadians, they were for us there. this is important. the white widow is not important, she just represents the trend that is quite interesting. >> omar hamaami born in the

u.s., the press looking at recruitment drives with a 2009 video promising wonders. according to the star tribune this wednesday, you no longer find in mosques. it seems to be happening door to door on a smaller and more discreet sale -- scale. in the u.s., are these people slipping through the net? >> there was a major effort put forward by the terrorism community after they saw them leave minnesota and minneapolis.

and san diego being a large one. there is another one outside of portland, maine in the u.s.. it has very ethnic somali components to it. >> what is the profile of a person that is attracted to this? >> they are young and they are male. other than that, you get a variety of recruits. most have come from other communities. there are converts.

this is predominantly an ethnic language. they have been very wary, they have not been successful in the 90's. they thought it might be an opportunity to tap into it where he can use attacks agianst th -- against the u.s., canada, and europe. >> we'll know whether or not they are foreigners. the president made the announcement saying it was five attackers at the time. the figure is still fuzzy at

this point. due to stand trial november 12 at the international criminal court, it left more than 1000 dead. the vice president already on trial, but allowed to return home this week to be on hand for the west gate crisis. >> it is frustrating to be so far away at a time where my countrymen and women are being tormented by criminals. >> closing ranks around the president and the ordeal. >> they have seen us through the worst of this crisis. it is to you that i turn to strength, love, and those

affected by this encounter. >> even barack obama made a point of avoiding trips to his father's native land, and he has shown his support this week. >> about the terrible tragedy in nairobi, i want to express my condolences to those that lost family members in the attack, but we stand with them against the terrible outrage that has occurred. we will provide them with whatever law enforcement. >> it has been hard to get the words out of barack obama's

mouth. people said that he made a point to go to tanzania because it was not can you. -- kenya. will this change relations? >> he pronounced the effort to the families is a good step. i think it will bring closer the united states and kenya. they wanted to take the distance, but when you face the enemy like we are right now, this is an international problem that we need to come together as one. we need to be able to see relations between the country and the usa. >> do you agree?

>> i was last here for the elections earlier this year when they ran a campaign that was very anti-western. the message was the icc, a western tool. the icc prosecutes the leader, and there was strong sentiment. it has changed completely after this attack. they are very good at putting forward a nation united. this is not a nation that was absolutely divided after the 2007 elections. ethnic group versus ethnic group. and coming internationally after these attacks, obama is reaching

out. he has definitely -- his speech last night, i saw people glued to the tv. he is a very good public speaker. and he touched the spirit of the nation last night. >> where does this leave the case against him and his vice president? >> he did not allow for his trial to be postponed until january. i would suggest that he is putting forward the that he will have these attacks.

he could stand trial via skype. even on the front, they could get some concessions. >> there is an expression called reason of state. do you think in the face of what has happened, the case is just going to quietly fizzle away? >> i honestly have no idea. it tends to shift the direction of politics. you also see changes and maybe they will just ignore it.

maybe a time that it is more opportune for the criminal court. >> the issues are huge when it comes to what is going on inside somalia. that is the breeding ground for those haunting the west at home. how do you see this relationship between kenya, this uneasy relationship, and the likes of washington? >> if we look at the response, we can say today of the kenyan government, at least the first stage, can you must be deeply more involved in the international community. and with other allies in europe to fight this, and threat.

-- this common threat. again, it is speculation, but the investigation is underway. many are from europe and the united states. this is what they wanted to show. >> a lot of reactions coming from you. should it be handled with more caution or force? kenya is the perfect example of the overall government systems that we have. how can the security and intelligence be so inept? that is something that we have seen in the local press. something it has been tailored to tracking opponents than it

has to tracking these radicals? >> it is speculation. they realize that people want to make you think that. the political opponents, you have seen them together. and the fact that they were able , i am aware that the police force and the security force is tracking opponents. i think they can do better. >> we cannot forgive incompetency.

we know it too well. how much second-guessing is there? we are in three days of mourning. there has been this show of support. >> there is a lot of talk and open guessing. they seem to think that the security forces have done a good job. i personally don't think that, but there is overwhelming sentiment that they conducted the job.

>> you say that you personally don't think that. why is that? >> as i was coming to it, kenyan police have a track record of extreme vitality. they are well-known for that. the intelligence failed. >> do you agree? >> there should have been indicators. there was a smaller incident where he was conducting a grenade attack on smaller attacks. there should have been indicators of an attack at this scale.

the support to move that kind of weaponry, this is not an attack that is on the border area. i am surprised. >> we know that even here in france, a security guard at a mall does not make a lot of money. it can't be that difficult to pay someone a little something to not have your bags searched. >> there is a 20 year pattern. if you read the documents, they would fly straight to the airport. going into and out of somalia. they had ones they did to pull off the attack.

the attempted shooting down of the airport. you have the same airports that were never in place. you know that you are occupying the southern part of the country , it should raise your awareness and expect something like this. >> a lot has been made of the fact that lots of people are advising the kenyan government. they talked about the west, israel as well. is the fault solely that of the government? >> they are a sovereign country. the last major attack was in 98.

when you look at what happened with the embassy bombing, almost the same pattern. there are signals. many signals that were generated by preparation of these attacks. >> will they be thinking about how kenya handles its own security? >> there is a bit of seriousness because of moving all these weapons. the kenyan forces will be more aware as you have seen already.

>> i feel weird now when i call my students and say to my students, a friendly way to talk to youth is now associated with terror. we will say thank you to the panel. the pieces you can read. thank you for being with us here.

>> good morning. it's 9 a.m. in beijing. 9 p.m. on the east coast. it will be held from thursday to saturday. focusing on cooperation between china and central asia.