♪ >> hello, and welcome. you are watching france 24, and it is day one of a shutdown. and obama care. we will ask our panel and also asked if washington's dysfunctional politics are any more dysfunctional than in europe. the shutdown as seen from paris and washington. that is coming up in the debate.

we will also be checking in with our media watch a segment. in the newsroom, let's say hello once again. >> thank you, francois. " i wish i could believe him, but i do not." they are looking to stand behind current sanctions from tehran. and hundreds of thousands of face unpaid leave. this is the first time this has happened in 17 years. and some appear in court in greece. looking about a criminal organization. first, why would a country with a useful nuclear program build intercontinental ballistic missiles? that is the israeli prime minister at the u.n., saying

that the iranian prime minister is a wolf in sheep's closing. benjamin netanyahu said he should be judged by his actions, not his word. he stressed that the goal of iran is to have the sanctions lifted. >> the strategy which enabled iran to advance its nuclear weapons program behind a smokescreen of diplomatic engagement and very soothing rhetoric. now, i know. he does not sound like ahmadinejad. but when it comes to the arabian nuclear weapons program, the only difference between them is this. i ahmadinejad was a wolf in wolf's clothing. he is a wolf in sheep's clothing. >> in other news, many americans are frustrated that democrats and republican lawmakers failed to agree on a new budget on monday, leading to a partial

government shutdown. the grahams deemed essential, like air traffic control, remain open. it shut down after a record 21 days. this time, as our correspondent in washington explains, the main bone of contention is obama care. >> republicans absolutely hate the health care overhaul that was put in place in 2000 11, that signature achievement of the first mandate of barack obama. it has really been right at the center of the debate, and it becomes a reality today on the first of october. this is where the health care exchanges open up on the web. that means there is now health insurance available available through the federal government for those without cover right now. coincidentally -- >> we are cutting philip off right there to cross live to barack obama at the white house. >> for the first time in 17 years, republicans in congress

chose to shut down the federal government. let me be more specific. one faction of one party in one house of congress, in one branch of government shutdown major parts of government, all because they did not like one law. this republican shutdown did not have to happen. i want every american to understand why it did happen. republicans in the house of representatives refused to fund the government unless we defunded or dismantled the affordable care act. they have shut down the government over an ideological per se at -- prosaic to deny health insurance to millions of americans. in other words, they demanded a ransom just for doing their job. and many representatives, including an increasing number of republicans have made it clear that had they been allowed

to take a simple up or down vote on keeping the government open without partisan strings attached, enough votes from both parties would have kept the american people's government open to operate. we may not know the full impact of this republican shutdown for some time. it will depend on how long it lasts, what we do not couple of things. we do know that the last time republicans shut down the government in 1996, it hurt our economy, and unlike in 1996, our economy is still recovering from the worst recession in generations. we know that certain services that american seniors and veterans depend on must be put on hold. certain offices, along with every national park and the monument must be closed, and while last night i signed legislation to make sure our one point 4 million active-duty military are paid through the shutdown, hundreds of thousands of civilian workers, many still

on the job, many forced to stay home, are not being paid, even if they have families to support and local businesses that rely on them. and we know that the longer this shutdown continues, the worse the effects will be. more families will be hurt, more businesses will be harmed. so, once again, i urge house republicans to reopen the government, restart the services americans depend on, and allow the public servants who have been sent home to return to work. this is only going to happen when republicans realize they do not get to hold the entire economy hostage over ideological demands. as i have said repeatedly, i am prepared to work with democrats and republicans to do the things we need to do to grow the economy and create jobs, get our fiscal house in order over the long run.

though i should add, this shutdown is not about deficits or spending or budgets. our deficits are falling at the fastest pace in 50 years. we have cut them in half since i took office. in fact, many of the demand republicans are now making would actually raise our deficits. so, no, this shutdown is not about deficits. it is not about vegans. it is about rolling back our efforts to provide health insurance to folks who do not have it. it is all about rolling back the affordable care act. this, more than anything else, seems to be what the republican party stands for these days. i know it is strange that one party would make keeping people uninsured the centerpiece of their agenda, but that apparently is what it is. and, of course, what is stranger still is that shutting down our government does not accomplish our stated goal -- to their stated goal.

the affordable care act passed the house and the senate and the supreme court. it was a central issue in last years election. it is settled, and it is here to stay. and because of its funding sources, it is not impacted by the government shutdown. these americans are here with me today because even though the government is closed, a big part of the affordable care act is now open for business. and for them and for millions like them, this is a is stored day for a good reason. it has been a long time coming, and today, americans who have been forced to go without insurance can now visit healthc are.gov and get quality coverage, and that starts today, and people will have six months to sign up, so over the six months, people are going to have an opportunity, in many cases

for the first time in their e coverage that they desperately need. now, of course, if you are one of the 85% of americans who already have health insurance, you do not have to do a thing. you are already in a fitting from the protections that have been in place under this law. but for the 15 % of americans who do not have health insurance, this opportunity is life-changing. let me just tell folks a few stories today. a few years ago, one woman left her job to take care of her parents. for while, she had temporary insurance that covered her multiple sclerosis. when it expired, many insurers would not cover her because of her ms. she ended up saying $1200 per month. that is nowhere near affordable. starting today, she can get coverage for much less, because today's plan, they cannot use your medical history to charge you more than everybody else.

another had to choose between paying for her rent or her health insurance, and she has been uninsured ever since. she pays all of her medical bills out of pocket, some on credit card, making it even harder to pay. nancy says they talk about those who fall through the cracks. i fell through the cracks 10 years ago and have been stuck there ever since. well, starting today, nancy can get coverage, just like everybody else. another woman was laid off or her job one year ago today, and six months ago, she was diagnosed with a brain tumor. she could not afford assurance on the private market, so she has not received treatment yet. her daughter at the university of maryland is considering dropping out of school to help pay her mom's bills. well, starting today, thanks to the affordable care act, she can get coverage without forcing her daughter to give up on her dreams. so these stories of hard-working

americans sound familiar to you, and starting today, you, your friends, your family, and your coworkers can get coverage. just visit healthcare.gov, and there, you can see health plans side-by-side, just as you would shop for something on amazon. you would be presented with a list of quality, affordable plans in your area with clear descriptions of what each plan covers and what it would cost. you will find more choices, more competition, and in many places, more competition. most americans will find they can get coverage for $100 or less. you do not have to take my word for it. go to the website and check it out for yourself and then show it to your family and friends and help them get coverage, just like mayors and churches and others are fanning out to do across the country.

and there is a hotline where you can apply over the phone and get help with the application. or just get questions that you have answered by real people in 100 different languages, so let me give you that number. 1 -- 800 -- 318 -- 25 96. check out healthcare.gov. show your family and friends how to do it. this is so the struggles that these folks have gone through for years finally get addressed. and let me just remind people why i think this is so important. i heard a striking statistic yesterday. if you get cancer, you are 70% more likely to live another five years if you have insurance than if you do not. think about that. that is what it means to have health

insurance. set aside the issues of security and finances and how your impacted either that, the stress involved in not knowing whether or not you're going to have health care. this is life or death stuff. tens of thousands of americans die each year just because they do not have health insurance. millions more live with the fear that they will go broke if they get sick, and today, we begin to free millions of our fellow americans from that fear. already, millions of young adults have been able to stay on their parents plans until they turn 26. millions of seniors have already gotten a discount on their prescription medicines. already, millions of families have received rebates rob insurance companies who did not spend enough on their health care. this law means more choice, more competition, lower cost for millions of americans. this just does not mean economic

security for our families, it means we are facing one of the biggest drivers of our deficits. it means a stronger economy. remember, most republicans have made a whole bunch of predictions about this law that have not come true. there are no death panels. costs have not skyrocketed. they are growing at the slowest rate in 15 years. the last three years since i signed the affordable care act into law are the three slowest rates of health spending growth on record. and contrary to republican claims, this has not destroyed our economy. in the past years, our businesses have created 7.5 million new jobs. just today, we learned that our manufacturers are growing at the fastest rate in 2.5 years. they have factored in the affordable care act. they do not think it is a problem. what is weighing on the economy is not the affordable care act but the constant crises and unwillingness to pass a reasonable budget by a faction

of the republican party. now, like every new law, every new product, there are going to be some glitches in the sign-up process along the way that we will fix. i have been saying this from the start. for example, we found out that there have been times this morning where this site has been running more slowly than it normally will. the reason is because more than one million people visited healthcare.gov before 7:00 in the morning. to put that in context, there were five times more uses -- users in the marketplace than have ever been at healthcare.gov at one time. this gives you a sense of how important this is to millions of americans around the country, and that is a good thing, and we are going to be speeding things up in the next few hours to handle all of this demand that

eat anything that we had expected. consider that just a couple of weeks ago, apple rolled out a new operating system, and within days, they found a glitch, so they fixed it. i do not remember anybody suggesting apple should stop selling iphones or ipads or threatening to shut down the company if they did not. that is not how we do things in america. you do not have to have proof of failure. we work to make things happen. we may get better. we keep going. so in that context, i will work with anybody who has got a serious way to make the affordable care act work better, but as long as i am president, i will not give into reckless demands by some in the republican party to deny affordable health insurance to millions of working americans. i want republicans in congress to know, these are the americans you hurt if you are allowed to

dismantle this law. nancy. who now finally have the basic security and peace of mind come at just like everybody else, including members of congress. the notion that you would make a condition of reopening the government to make sure these folks do not have health care, that does not make any sense. it does not make any sense. now, let me make one closing point. as republican shutdown threatens our economy at a time when millions of americans are still looking for work, businesses are starting to get some traction, so the timing is not good. of course, a lot of republicans in the house ran for office two years ago promising to shut down the government, so, apparently, they have now gotten their wish. but as i have said before, the irony that house republicans

have to contend with is they have shut down a whole bunch of parts of government, but the affordable care act is still open for business. and this may be why you have got many republican governors and senators and even a growing number of reasonable republican congressmen who are telling the extreme right of their party to knock it off, pass a budget, move on. and i want to underscore the fact that congress does not just have to end this shut down and reopened the government. congress generally has to stop governing by crisis. they have to break this habit. it is a drag on the economy. it is not worthy of this country . for example, one of the most important things congress has to do in the next couple of weeks is to raise what is called the debt ceiling. and it is important to understand what this is.

this is a routine vote. congress has taken this vote 45 times to raise the debt ceiling since ronald reagan took office. it does not cost taxpayers a single dime. it does not grow our deficit by a single dime. it does not authorize anybody to spend any money whatsoever. all it does is authorize the treasury to pay the bills on what congress has already spent. think about that. if you buy a car, you do not save money by not paying your car note. you are just a deadbeat. if you buy a house, you do not save money by not authorizing yourself to pay the mortgage. you are just going to be foreclosed on your home.

that is what this is about. it is routine. it is what they are supposed to do. it is not a concession to me. it is not some demand that is unreasonable that i am making. this is what congress is supposed to do as a routine matter, and they should not wait until the last minute to do it again last time republicans even threaten to this course of action, many of you remember, back in 2011, our economy stagnated, our credit rating was down for the first time. they go through with it this time and first--force america to default, it will be more dangerous than a shutdown as bad as a shutdown is. it would be an economic shutdown, so i will speak more on this in the coming days, but let me repeat. i will not negotiate over congress's responsibility to pay bills it has already racked up. i am not going to allow anybody to drag the united states of

america through the mud just to fight the election or exact ideological demands. no one does this to hard-working american families over what you do not like in a law. there are a whole bunch of things that i would like to see passed through congress that the republicans have not passed yet, and i am not out there saying, well, i'm going to let america default unless congress does something that they do not want to do. that does not help. that is not how adults operate. certainly, that is not how our government should operate. and that is true whether there is a democrat in this office or a republican in this office. it does not matter whether it is a democratic house of representatives or a republican- controlled house ofprepresentat.

there are certain rules that everybody abide by because we do not want to hurt other people just because we have a political disagreement. so my basic message to congress is this. pass a budget. and the government shutdown. pay your bills -- end the government shutdown. do not wait. do not delay. do not put our economy or our people through this any longer. i am more than happy to work with them on all kinds of issues . i want to get back to work on the things that the american people sent us here to work on, creating more jobs and security for the middle class. certainly the american people are a lot better than this. i am pleased of what we have accomplished for amanda and nancy and others, tens of millions of their fellow citizens on this day.

it proves that even when the odds are long and the obstacles are many, we are and always will be a country that can do great things together. thank you very much, everybody. god bless you. thank you, all of you, for the work you are doing, and thank you for the outstanding work that she is doing, making sure millions of americans can get health insurance. thank you. >> how can you have a solution? how can you bring an end to this? >> you can watch live remarks from the rose garden with u.s. president barack obama on day one of an economic shutdown, obama saying to congress, they your bills, or we will have an economic shutdown, chastising republicans for, as he put it, holding the entire economy hostage to satisfy their demands. that brings us to the subject of our france 24 debate.

a shut down as of midnight, reminiscent of 1995, 1996, where the government basically dragged to a halt for three months, republicans and democrats digging in their heels for a long fight about the budget, and then there was the health-care bill. senator ted cruz even tried a 21 hour filibuster, complete with bedtime stories. >> do you like green eggs and ham? >> i do not like them, sam i am. i do not like green eggs and ham. >> this could extend beyond an october 17 deadline to raise the debt ceiling. it could threaten the u.s. recovery, and there are charges of political recklessness, that new york should not be so smug

knowing the italian government may fall and that leaders are responding to the eurozone crisis with some slow motion fits of stop and start reform. today in our debate, looking at washington and the shutdown, with us, ronald friedman from the atlantic council. welcome back to the program. and patrick from the advocacy group, freedom works, which is for less government and lower taxes. also here in the studio, from the french communist elect hardy of the left, and our editor, and douglas herbert. the debate, where you can join in the conversation on facebook and on twitter. #f24debate. i would call it a health insurance exchange, with the

website healthcare.gov. for obama, there is no going back with or without a shutdown. >> and that is why i will not negotiate on anything when it comes to the full faith and credit of the united states of america. >> the president says i am not going to negotiate. well, i am sorry, it just does not work that way. we are not going to ignore washington's spending problem, and we are not going to accept this new normal of shrinking wages. >> are we really headed for a long shutdown? >> it is much more than a show, and it is possible we are in serious trouble. as far as speaker john boehner boehner is concerned, if the american people did not want the

affordable care act, mitt romney would be president today. there was a law on the books called affordable health care. the republicans are, trying to, some of them, and an eye that it is a law of the united states. they are saying that obama is yielding to certain pressures, but if this rolls into a default on u.s. government bonds, treasury bills, then we have a medical problem on our hands, and there was the downgrade by s&p two years ago, very expensive. >> that october 17 deadline for raising the debt ceiling, how important is it. >> jetblue says we will not get to the 17th. by the 14th, we will have problems paying outstanding treasury bills, so it could be sooner than that. >> patrick, a quinnipiac poll talks about those being against

the health-care plan, looking at shutting down the federal government, what is your response to what obama just said? >> well, the way i look at it, that is the progressive media in the united states, doing a great job playing defense for the president and democrats in congress, but we have a referendum on government micromanaged health care in the united states by putting mitt romney, the architect of health care in massachusetts against barack obama on the national level, that is not a referendum on health care. it does not speak to the american people's conscience on this issue. furthermore, the president has expressed that he is very concerned about hard working americans in the country, but adding another bill to our already overburdened situation, there are three entitlement programs in place that are set to take care of americans, pay for their health care, and help

take care of them, but those programs are underfunded by trillions of dollars. this is not going to help anything. >> as the president said, this bill does not spend any federal money itself. it just says to sign up with a private health insurance company. >> unfortunately, that is not true. the crux is allocating federal subsidies through the subsidies -- the exchange with a percentage of the poverty line. there is quite a bit of federal spending, which is why there are also taxes in the bill. >> october 17, or as ronald says, october 14? >> i think it is important to note that house republicans have put forward a bill that fully funds the government and all of the obligations. the president and harry reid rejected it. house republicans put forward negotiators to work out their differences.

that is what regular order in the u.s. government looks like, and harry reid in the senate, the democratic leader in the senate, said no. >> so you are predicting that we have gridlock for some time to come? >> well, i certainly hope is not the case, but if harry reid and barack obama continue on this hartline, i do not think we are going to get anywhere. the number, harry reid has been very unabashed to say that his goal is single-payer health care in the united states. it is already compromised, and that is not going to cut it with a 60% so of americans who do not want this law in place. >> of course, this is not how it is being spun in a lot of other media outlets. the television series "house of cards" on the front page of "new york daily news," john boehner

portrayed as the lead. >> let me finish my chuckling over that headline. >> by the way, not everybody within the republican party agrees. yesterday's paper quoted that the american people have a perfect right to think that the yahoos are running the show. it goes onto say that books will be written about this some day, all of these republicans living in an echo chamber, or they feel they have a -- >> what is really interesting is we keep making this a democrat republican issue. it is easy for narrative or buses, sort of a black-and-white issue with two a very polarized parties, which they are, but it is also becoming an issue of polarization within the

republican party itself. there are not too many liberal republicans out there. it is hard to find them, but when you talk about even moderate republicans, even if they are not admitting it publicly, they feel they have been taken hostage a more fundamentalist hardline streak within their own party. they are scared to go against, even though, yes, we have spoken a lot about tea party republicans in the past, and, no, they are not dominant in american politics. but they are hopeful. if you want to use the word centrist republicans, they are very scared to go against that grassroots fundamentalist hardline sentiment in their party. they have seen in the past what has happened. you saw bob bennett in utah. long-standing republicans, who thought they were stones --

staunch republicans. they ended up losing elections in the midterms. >> there is a chastising of the tea party. elected officials are safe. their districts, gerrymandered. let me ask you. does this hark back? there is a bit of smugness, this sort of french saying we hear about how americans are just overgrown children? >> it is a little ridiculous. when you look at the big picture, i have a tendency to think that what is happening in the united states is obviously on the front page about internal politics between republicans and democrats in the next election, but the big picture, i think, it goes back to the subprime crisis. because of the bailout, the

essu by t fincial sector on the budget and on the united states government is huge, and so you haven interest behind that, and what you have today is effectively, those speculative attacks that are being organized against the united states, and how could the europeans be given lessons to americans on how to react to speculative attack because europe is under speculative attack because of the subprime crisis since the sub prime crisis and has dealt with that with very poor efficiency. what you have here is people who are effectively not having jobs, not getng their plic services, , i mean, i think it is not fair to laugh at what is happening in the united states. it is serious though. we have to analyze it. >> what do you think of the coverage as seen over here about what is happening in washington?

>> there is a certain amount of people not understanding how laws are voted and passed and cannot be funded, the idea that the that ceiling can be used as a weapon to reverse decisions already made in congress seems very strange. there is nothing equivalent in europe of our two step process, given the fact there is a national commitment. i do not think people are laughing at the u.s., i think they are scratching their heads and wondering what is going on. they are really wondering what the congress is up to. the keyword, gerrymanderg, which is not something they know about over here the way it is done in the u.s. >> -- >> it has reached the street, to the point where people are frozen. it does not happen at this level of fineness. so much information. a great majority of republican

house seats are very safe seats. >> right now, the financial markets, they have not overreacted to this news. >> run and shoot markets will do nothing until they panic and drop off a cliff. we have seen it before. it can happen again. and the ticking clock towards the first treasury bill edge cannot be rolled over, but today, they are up half a point. >> the panic. if there is at one point the speculative attack to go on, then for now, they need to wait. they need to wait for that ceiling to be reached. >> the hardest impact of the shutdown, again, only felt if it goes beyond that deadline of raising the debt ceiling in two weeks. some are already feeling the bite. william reports. >> while democrats and republicans battled in washington, tourists visiting the most famous civil war

battleground in gettysburg, pennsylvania, had little sympathy. >> when you plan a vacation for 6, 9, to 12 months, and you come to the locatn you want to visit, and you cannot visit it, it is upsetting. >> from the new york statue of liberty to the california alcatraz prison and yellowstone in wyoming, it is not just the tourists it affects but the employees working at the national parks. >> either 24 or 48 hours. if not, we will have to close down. >> more than 800,000 federal employees face unpaid leave. some agencies are sending home up to 95% of their staff, which will also have an effect on nearby businesses. >> i am living day to day, so i am praying. >> people hav got to live. they have to make a living. they are making a living.

it is all crazy. >> crazy or not, only congress can resolve their differences and get back to work. >> we have news agencyires. anide to a senior house republican leader. suggesting passing a series of small funding bills to reopen indidual federal agencies or progms at current spending levels. that has just come out over the wires. patrick, do you think we can have some sort of stopgap solution to reopen the dialogue channel? >> well, again, i think that is just a repeat of what has been passed by house republicans. house republicans already looked at the levels agreed to by the affordable care act, which is not an unprecedented move. president obama himself has

defunded or revised many programs to the tons of millions of dollars. >> you are shaking the head. >> and administrative discretion. on the application of every law, there is a very substantial undertaking to put in place a health care system that will be nationwide, a computer network that will affect millions of people. you do not do that overnight, as the president has said very eloquently time and time again. >> i want to go back to the job issue and the complete shutdown. it is crazy to have 700,000 people jobless from today's on. what you have is the greek- ization of the biggest economy in the world. this is where we are at in today's economy, today's world. what happens in athens, for the greeks, the fact that their jobs are frozen, that their

televisions are closed from one day to another, ok, that is now happening in the united states, so how will we go on with this crazy system that allows this? >> we keep comparing this to the last government shutdown of 1995. on an economic level, there is a major difference, and barack obama has addressed this directly, the economy is much more vulnerable than it was in 1995. it was not at the irrational exuberance point, that famous line by alan greenspan, but we have over seven percent unemployment, and for every week , i am not sure, but every week that the government is shut down , we could take off perhaps 1/5 of a percentage point of growth in the u.s. economy for the fourth quarter, which is quite substantial when you think about it. the economy is just staggering back to its feet after the financial crisis. this could be a double whammy

impact. you would have the budget shutdown, and then follow very quickly thereafter by a failure to raise the debt ceiling. >> the economy was growing fast, the stock market was going up, unemployment is half of what it was. this is much more delicate. >> we are mentioning the late 1995. republicans, at the time, taking what they thought was a principled stance against washington's spending. democrats said it was a power play on capitol hill. voters punished or publicans for the shutdown, bill clinton easily winning reelection the following fall. so the question is, are we are going to see, patrick, simply a repeat of what happened in 1995, where republicans draw a line in the sand, and the voters punished them? already, we are seeing snap old, --polls, showing republicans

would lose big. >> i really do not think that is going to be the case in the next elections. they are very right to point out this is different from the 1990's. america is on a shaky basis. the debt level is too hi. that is a huge problem. the conservative leadership in the republican party, if we do not act to perform at -- do this, we are going to face real problems in this country. >> so, on this issue, we do not understand this issue of not insuring people who do not have health insurance. >> americans do not believe in this. when the government fails, the entire economy fails, and

govenments like france, it is dominated by government spding. there is a huge, vast majority that goes on. that is the heart and soul of the american economy, and that is what we are trying to preserve. that is why we are fighting so hard, but if i can go back to americans being punished on this issue, if you look at 2010 versus 2012, republican candidates took a hard-line stance against spending and programs like these entitlement programs, and they won they. they play defense when they should have been playing on offense, and putting up a candidate like mitt romney, who was a concession. and voters stayed home. barack obama received fewer votes than john mccain did in 2008. that is not a referendum.

they are saying they do not like what they are offering. >> they are still in the running the 2012 election. as churchill said, people who like sausage should not see them being made. the law of the land. people are now signing up for obamacare. this is the reality that they helped create. >> i think there is a mistake, this whole concept. the whole idea that even after voting, you would have to have agreements between democrats and republicans. i mean, why do you go to vote is at the end of the day, in the house, or in the senate, the two parties will reach an agreement.

this is what i think republicans are working on. obama has always been very forward on bipartisan, and you see the same thing in europe now. bipartisan manager -- management at every l of the parliament, the idea you need to have budgetary austerity. and where are the people? where is democracy? >> you are getting to what they will say about politics in general. there is no consensus anymore, to say the least. the cliché is that it is partisan gridlock, but it goes beyond that. it is a war.

you have two tribes, and they are at war, and the idea is to bring down the opposing tribe. we have vast amounts of money he and raised, and this is what they spend their time doing in order to bring down their opponent. you can make the case that this is really not about so-called obamacare. this is about an effort to sabotage, to bring down this president at all costs. they will do whatever they can to make it happen. >> are you trying to bring down barack obama at all costs? >> no. there are things few and far between that i agree with the president on. before what we saw with hillary clinton, we just do not want the government involved in health care. we have seen the kind of burden that creates. we do not want to retire 1/6 of our economy that has frankly become too big to fail.

this puts us at an even greater risk. >> every time we try to improve, republicans vote against me. which president said that? when did he say that? the answer, harry truman, 1948. this has been going on for a long time, and obama prevailed, and ronald reagan could not, and clinton could not. let's get on with it. let's preserve american credit. >> the liberal media coverage of this story. you have been peru's zynga papers. >> the washington post and abc news have done a poll. only a few approve of the actions. there is a degree of disapproval.

this was expressed on the front page of the new york daily news. in reference to the series house of cards. you also have photographs of lady liberty with a begging bowl. some are looking at how this affects day-to-day life. even if you go to the national zoo, you know that webcams have been shot down, if you're interesting to see what is going on at the national zoo, you cannot. this is a trickle-down effect, right down to the zoo. now, business insider and other media, 1995, 1996, it perhaps led to the infamous monica the whiskey scandal. essentially, what happened is nonessential staff were sent home.

they were given responsibilities greater than they would normally be given. it did mean they got some quality time together, so who knows what shenanigans are currently going on in washington, d c, and the scandals are in the making as we speak, francois. >> very quickly to what this might look like in france, this would have a much more top-heavy state, so schools would be shut down because teachers are central state employees, not the case in the u.s., and also, national television. it would probably be shut down, but it is a state-funded body, unlike in the u.s., with pbs, and the lincoln memorial shut down. the eiffel tower would stay open because it is a public-private venture, with shareholders.

there you go, if you were to transpose the situation with france. it would be different. >> james, nice to know the eiffel tower would stay open. we heard barack obama has been mentioning the simple message that he believes one party is basically holding hostage, those were his words, holding to ransom the american people over this issue. >> one faction, of one party, in one house of congress, in one branch of government does not get to shut down the entire government just to refight the results of an election. >> only in america? well, take a look at italy, where supporters of silvio berlusconi say they were willing to bring down the government to

stop their leader from going to jail. >> the broad coalition is split up because of six years of attempts to remove berlusconi from political life. obviously, this would break the alliance between the democrat party and the people for freedom. >> you have to begin comparing american politics to italy, and we may joke about the collapse of government in italy. how many classes have they had since the second world war? it is a parallel to personal ambition, but you get into an argument in italy, the difference being the embedded instability in their whole political structure. an berlusconi wants to stay out of prison, exactly. >> people in the finance sector in the united states also want to stay out of prison and maybe have underlying interests in this situation. >> the question that you could

raise is where are the noble goals of jeffersonian democracy, where you had a congress representing the issue of the people and debating issues and not looking after their own vested interest and not looking merely after being a party that wants to remain in power and party interests tom and politics will always trump the actual debate and what is in the interest of the country. >> if ted cruz had read the notes of the constitutional convention in the 18th century, you would see a much more educated and focused congress than we see today. >> the conclusion is that the system is dysfunctional. the european union system is dysfunctional, and i am afraid that the way to merge the two systems with the north atlantic investment agreement, which is currently under negotiation, it is giving the situation a very bad idea. >> the issue, there is a problem

on both sides of the atlantic about whether or not politics is broken. we are asking on twitter if europe is any better when it comes to gridlock, and dennis replied, big difference. some european countries have civil unrest. you do not see civil servants marching on congress, he says. that is a big difference, but there is a growing feeling that politics is broken here. the difference being you still have a bipartisan system in the united states, whereas here, we are seeing the rise of antiestablishment parties. >> we are seeing that in reaction to budgetary discipline which has come home to bite them. the rules put together in the european union, for budgetary health, have reached a point where laws passed over decades now seem to be unaffordable, unaffordable, and the u.s. has an advantage that european countries do not. it has the reserve currency.

the european approach to the problem has been austerity. the u.s. approach has been quantitative easing, which is really a form of money easing and manipulation of the interest rate curve. how long i can go on also needs to be seen. we are playing with dynamite on both sides of the atlantic. it is government governance that really needs a very hard look. democracy is a very good system if you inform yourself of the issues and then vote accordingly, but when people take partisan and extreme positions on either side of the atlantic, chaos can happen. >> you cannot have democracy with an austerity schema. it is impossible. the governments try to undo whatever democracy and elections try to do. look what happened today. the french president, françois hollande, was looking at the

status of the french finance, and it is now one of the obligations we have under the current treaties, and he said, he writes in his report at the pension reform he is working on now in france will push pensions to the age of 66 years old for kids going into jobs at age 23 by 2035, so this was in his report. what he is saying in the french public is that he is keeping the age. this is why a democracy cannot work with austerity, and the whole idea of actually having sovereignty and policies for the evil by the people is killed by austerity. >> the payment for the pension must go on for a longer period for younger people, until 66. that is what it actually says. that is a different issue.

>> what we are seeing is the antiestablishment parties which are rising a lot, especially in southern europe, a lot of them are on the far right, like what we saw with the austrian elections. >> the far left is more powerful than the far right. there is no other alternative than the return of fascism, with a small oligarchy. that is not true. we have big scores.

>> ron, you were mentioning about how the politics were pushing a radicalization in both sides. could we have surprises? again, getting back to the issue of whether or not we see a repeat of 1995, you mentioned one big difference. the economy is not in the same shape as it was then. >> it is already fairly polarized. there is the short-term risk of default on obligations. which the secretary of the treasury, jack lew, has pointed out. we are seeing a unification of the financial markets. what we are happening his affect the economy of india and russia and the economy of china. the u.s. economy relies on that, for better or worse, and the

world as a whole will suffer. >> >> one of the ways to manage the u.s. economy, that rings the world nowhere, because that creates a huge amount, and it is not linked to real economies. this is for all of the people around the world. >> it is not fake. buying bonds from the capital market in order to make the system more liquid, to try to get the economy moving again. quantitative easing has worked. this has certainly been more effective than austerity policies, and it has been less of a driver to extremist parties than austerity has. >> we will continue to watch what happens, coming up to that

next deadline. hopefully, things can be sorted out. michelle on facebook saying, we americans are hopeful the next elections will eject the selfish, conservative people. it is the only way america will survive, but we will continue. we want to thank patrick for warning us and douglas and ronald, and thank you for joining us here on the france 24 debate. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- d

of business. >> for the first time in 17 years, the united states government shuts down an 800,000 government workers are out of work. i am phillip yin. >> i am michelle makori. wall street shrugs off the government shutdown in all three market indices close higher.