clicks coming up -- >> coming up, edward snowden is speaking out, what he had to say about allegations he gave top- secret intel to the russian and chinese government. details just ahead. and, should the u.s. government have the right to force-feed striking detainees? a judge is hearing a case asking for an injunction to prevent this inhumane practice. we will have a report from the court coming up. and governing by crisis. it seems washington can only make decisions when there is a

looming catastrophe, but is this hurting the u.s. economy? we will get some perspective later in the show. it's friday, october 18th, 5 p.m. in washington, d.c., and you are watching rt. we begin today with details from an interview with edward snowden. in an extensive conversation, snowden gave detailed responses to a myriad of accusations levied against him by u.s. officials. one major allegation, that snowden had leaked secrets to both chinese and russian governments, and that therefore made him a traitor to the united states. snowden said that before going to russia, he gave all classified documents to journalists in hong kong, and he reiterated that he did not keep any documents for himself,

saying it would not serve the public interest. in response to how he protected the classified documents from chinese spies, snowden said he was able to because of his background and training at the nsa. as a contractor, he targeted chinese operations while at the same time teaching at class on chinese counter operations. snowden has been called a traitor who has caused in norma's damage to u.s. operations. privacy advocates feel the opposite -- caused enormous damage to u.s. operations. privacy advocates feel the opposite. just last week, some privacy

advocates paid snowden a visit in russia for the sam adams award for integrity in intelligence work. we are fortunate to have one of them here now. the human rights direct or of the government accountability project. thank you for joining us. you just return from moscow where you are able to attend the award ceremony for snowden. how would you characterize him now having met him? >> i thought he was healthy and happy. he seemed very grounded and balanced and thoughtful. despite all the pressure he is under, he seemed very funny, very wicked and he has a sense of humor. he was funny, social, and i think he was really glad to see us, and we were really glad and grateful to be able to see him. >> did that surprise you, his

disposition and how happy he seemed? >> yes. i think most people under those circumstances -- i mean, i can hardly imagine being away from my friends and my family and actually having my country exiled me and abandon me thomas so i thought he might be depressed or have lost weight or , you know, be more despond and. but no, he looked great. >> what kind of safety precautions did you take before you made the trip? >> we -- those of us who were traveling -- there were four of us, and we have a lawyer on retention if we were detained coming back into the country, if we were detained and interrogated and if our devices are taken from us. at the same time, we all though -- we also left all those devices.

>> what was it like eating disconnected like that? -- being disconnected like that? >> it is really hard, and i am not even one of those technologically savvy people who has a million gadgets, but for me, not being able to talk to my family once i arrived just to tell people i was safe, that was very disconcerting. i think it is horrible that there are a number of people, with all this amazing technology we have, there are so many people who are disconnected because it is not a, as we have learned thanks to his revelations, to use your cell phone or internet or e-mail or anything that people are using these days. >> and of course, you did go along with three other americans, two of which are former whistleblowers like yourself. i want to begin with an article in the "new york times."

benedict arnold would have fit right in. the traitor fan club visits edward snowden. how do you respond to that? >> the "new york post" always has headlines that border on ridiculous. if they had done any research, they would know that the people who went were themselves former whistleblowers, including myself, who have all been vindicated by the u.s. government. >> and lastly, the rhetoric surrounding snowden when a step further when a former nsa director said jokingly, i must admit in my darker moments i also thought of nominating mr. snowden, but it was for a different list, to which mike rogers chimed in and said i can help you with that. of course, they are referring to snowden being on the drone kill list. what does this say about how they are perceiving snowden and

the information he is providing to the public? >> it is transparent about how irate they are and how reckless they are. these are elected officials at the highest levels of government. to make comments like that is wildly responsible and profoundly disturbing, frankly. it really shows you the antipathy in the ben him -- and the van him that the u.s. has. -- and the venom that the u.s. has. you don't put people -- you don't joke about putting people on the targeted assassination list. >> i have heard that edward snowden is not taking this very seriously at all. >> i think he sees it as a veiled threat, which it is, but i think he feels secure in his surroundings in russia, because russia, frankly, has the muscle to stand up against the united states and to protect him.

>> we learned on wednesday that the nsc director, keith alexander, will be stepping down. do you think that has to do with the snowden lakes -- leaks? >> absolutely. he and his buddy are leaving to spend more time with their families. which is ok with me. i would rather they spend time with their families than my family. >> i want to ask you about the sam adams integrity award. i don't think a lot of people know what it is. could you talk a little bit about it? i should mention, you receive the award back in 2011? >> sure, sam adams recipients are a collection of former cia operatives and intelligence operatives who have decided to bestow this award on people who showed courage, intelligence, integrity and bravery. often, but not always, they

happen to be whistleblowers who reveal truths that are either embarrassing or illegal to the united states. they are in the public interest to know. it is not just for people in the u.s. there have been a number of recipients from other countries. >> absolutely. we are very excited we were able to get you just off your trip. the national security director of the government accountability project. >> thank you. >> last february, more than 100 men at guantánamo bay went on hunger strike to protest their indefinite detention. the u.s. military decided to force feed them. now 16 men remain on hunger strike, but the tech need to keep the men alive remains in question. force-feeding has been deemed cruel and inhumane by the international community. today, the federal court of appeals in washington, d.c., heard a case seeking an

injunction against that very practice. >> the u.s. federal court of appeals here in washington, d.c., heard arguments in a case challenging the force-feeding of detainees in guantánamo bay. they have asked the court to put an end to it. the issue today was whether or not the cord even had jurisdiction to do that. earlier this year, the u.s. judge argued that while force- feeding was painful and humiliating, the courts do not have the power to stop it. we will have to see if this federal appeals court gives power to the courts to put an end to force- feeding procedures at guantánamo. at the prison, 16 hunger strikers are still being force fed on a daily basis. this is a procedure that has been deemed unethical and even torture is i the world medical association and the united nations.

greg's close guantánamo now. " guantanamo now. >> it was there that activists underwent a force-feeding procedure. >> force-feeding is being done to prevent prisoners who would rather die in guantánamo than to live in the limbo of what they are living, not knowing when they will be free, but also the constant psychological and physical torture that they are living every single day. >> then the force-feeding began. he described the pain. >> when the tube has gone and, at times it has blocked my capacity to breathe. it felt like constant agony. there is fire in your throat. >> as you saw, it is absolutely gruesome, and this happens out of sight in guantánamo to the

men who are force fed. the hope is that bringing visibility to the gruesomeness of internal feeding will shock the consciousness and make americans troubled by what the government is doing. >> i cannot not stop. i have gone in front of the white house. why? because we need to reveal to the light of day what is the torture that is happening in the shadows. >> they will have to wait some time, perhaps months before we hear the appeals court's decision, but activist are confident that actions like this one today and the strike still underway at guantánamo are working. they are raising consciousness and political will to do something about a prison that just cannot seem to be closed and the hunger strike that will not go away. in washington, sam sacks, rt. >> yesterday, the justice department brought new charges against four former blackwater worldwide security guards. the guards were accused of taking part in a shooting six

years ago in iraq that killed unarmed civilians and wounded 18 more. the guards are being charged with voluntary manslaughter and other crimes involved in the shooting. in a statement, u.s. attorney said today's indictment charges for blackwater guards with killing or wounding 32 defenseless iraqi citizens. the defendants abused their power through a relentless attack on civilians that recklessly exceeded any possible justification. the blackwater incident took lace in 2007 in baghdad. the contractor security detail was clearing the way for a convoy of u.s. state department vehicles. blackwater said the convoy was ambushed and that they fired at the attackers in self-defense. however, in a long investigation that followed the attack, the fbi and federal prosecutors determined that the shooting was an unprovoked attack on unarmed

civilians. the killing outraged iraqis and significantly strained relations between baghdad and washington. this is not the first indictment against these blackwater guards. the justice department charges against the men were dismissed in 2000 nine. a judge said the investigation was improper because the guards who gave statements were threatened with dismissal. a sixth guard who pled guilty to manslaughter and attempted manslaughter in 2008 agreed to cooperate with prosecutors. still ahead, governing by crisis. is this the only way that washington can get anything done? and is the practice hurting the u.s. economy? we will tackle that next. it may feel like the distant past now, but it was only three days ago that the u.s.

government was on the brink of disaster. the country was hanging on a ledge as it neared closer and closer to defaulting on its trillion dollar debt, the default i could've triggered an economic collapse and re-and -- could have triggered an economic collapse and reignited a global economic meltdown. the crisis approaches one president obama called attention to earlier this week. >> i want to thank the leadership are coming together and getting this done. hopefully next time it won't be in the 11th hour. one of the things i have said throughout this process is that we have to get out of the habit of governing by crisis. >> but it goes beyond to the strategy to get things done in washington. this brinkmanship is starting to have a real effect on the economy. this is according to a new study called the cost of crisis.

it shows that the reliance on crisis driven governing since 2010 has cost the u.s. 900 thousand jobs. to talk about how this is possible and what these perpetual political impasses are doing to disrupt the economy, i spoke with richard wolf, professor of economics emeritus at the university of massachusetts, amherst. i asked him about the political process and how it translates into a loss of jobs. >> the basic problem has to do with how to handle an economic system that is not working for the majority of the american people anymore. the basic issue, the long-term issue is that american large businesses have decided they can make more money by moving out of the united states, taking advantage of lower wages in china, india, brazil, nigeria,

all over what we used to call the third world. and basically, they have left or they are in the process of leaving. that leaves the united states within a norma's problem. there are not enough jobs. the people who lost their jobs crowd into the job possibilities that remain, driving down the wages. and we have a fundamental economic crisis that requires a massive response if there is any hope of getting out of it. the only agency in the united states that can deal with that problem, that has the money, that has the reach, that has the broad scope for action is the united states government. but the fear of the business community is that if the government takes this problem under its wing and goes after it, that either they will be taxed to pay for the solution, or the solution will involve taking power and decision-making away from big corporations and maybe even limiting their

freedom to leave the country without taking care of the mess they leave behind. they are determined not to let that happen. they work through the republican party, but also the democratic party, to stymie the government, to get it into gridlock so that it cannot move in the directions they are fearful about. that is our problem. >> people talk about washington being more divided than ever at this point, but it seems like gridlock has always existed. can you put this into historical context for us? is this government more polarized than ever before? >> not at all. it is only polarized around particular issues, and it can swing into action when its interest are aligned with those of his nest. matt mead give you -- of business. let me give you the clearest example. in 2008, our economy came this close to complete collapse.

that begins with the bankruptcy of lehman brothers in new york in the cascade of disaster. in comes the congress of the united states, republicans and democrats, mostly the same people who are sitting there now, and in a matter of weeks, they swung into action and they've come to trillions of dollars with a t, trillions into the united states in a stimulus program, in a bailout program. they've wrought in the federal reserve. the -- they brought in the federal reserve. everybody worked together. there was no dispute, no fighting, no gridlock. all the trouble came later. after you have bailed out the big banks, the big corporations, saved general motors, the whole story, suddenly, when it came time to say, taxed the beneficiaries of all those bailouts so the government could happen the -- help the average american, then we had gridlock.

then we have fighting. we do not have a gridlocked congress when it comes to helping the people who call the shots. we only have gridlock when the question is what do you do for the people who have suffered five years of this crisis still are unemployed, find their children having to borrow unquestionable amounts of money to go to school. then we hear about gridlock and division. no, no, no, the issues go much deeper than that. >> richard, i think the scary thing is that we know that we will be revisiting the same contentious issues in another four months when the debt ceiling returns. lawmakers are not necessarily fixing the underlying problems here, but rather finding temporary solutions. how difficult is it to actually recover from the damage that has been done? >> i don't see any change in the basic contours of the u.s. economy for years into the future. and i noticed that one of the

most wise commentators, stephen roach, used to work for many years at w morgan stanley bank, has said the same thing in recent days. we are not doing anything to solve this economic problem. we are patching it over with a little bit of fix it here and there. we have made our commitment to bailout the big corporations. we thought as a nation that the bailout would lead the banks to lend money to businesses and people. they did no such thing. the big corporations keep leving. we have a political system that is subservient to the people who run our economic system, and the truth of it is, unless and until we face that we are dealing with the people who run our big corporations and we have to change how they work and the decisions they make, so long as we don't face that, we will be dealing with their puppets, their tools in the united states congress and the white house to,

and they will give us lots of political editor, lots of raw materials and news stories, -- lots of political theater, lots of raw material and news stories, but they will not give us real movement because they are held in check by the larger interest that are in control of them. >> one venture capitalist in silicon valley said if companies shut down, the stock market would collapse. if the government shuts down, nothing happens and we all move on because it just doesn't matter. what's yours take on that? >> there is a point to it all. i mean, there were hundreds of thousands of people who lost their jobs for a few days. there were businesses who had no customers. there were all kinds of hardships when the government does not do the thousands of things we needed to do. i would not underestimate that importance. i also would not underestimate the norma's significance for the

rest of the world that used to look upon -- enormous significance for the rest of the world that used to look upon the united states as a bastion of capitalist functionality in a safe place to invest your money. the united states is looking less and less like as a society that can control itself in more and more like a society beginning to fall apart. the long-run effects of that are in norma's. but i do agree with the silicon valley fellow that you quoted. the real issue is how corporations are making decisions since we have an economy that allows the tiny number of people that control corporations to make decisions we all have to live with but which we are not allowed, either directly or through our government, to have much influence over. that is an untenable situation. >> i want to jump in there and ask you a very important question which is how do we begin to break this vicious cycle which has come to define

how washington is operating? >> i think first and foremost the fergus -- the focus should be on our economic system. we should stop this strange american desire to blame our economic problems on our politicians. the biggest problem in the past six years has been unemployment. millions and millions of people were fired from their jobs. you know who fired them? private capitalist employers. not government officials. in the first line of criticism and anger ought to be focused on where it belongs, on the decision-makers in our corporations who decided to move out of the country, to lay off american workers, and let's go from there. we don't do that. we leave over the corporations who fired us to blame the politicians who had relatively little to do with it. that is where we have to start. and what do i mean?

we have to bite the bullet. we have to face the hard reality. we allow an economic system to exist which is flagrantly undemocratic. in most corporations, tiny handful of people, major shareholders, a dozen. there is a board of directors, another dozen. they make all the decisions, what to produce, how to produce, where to produce, and what did it with the profits. we all, the mass of people who work in all of these businesses, making this economy go, we live with the results that a tiny group of people make. do we vote them in? no. do we have democratic accountability for their actions? no. a do what is profitable for them. they pay themselves in norma's salaries. they give themselves evidence. they decide to move to china. we live with the results. we moved -- we had the american

revolution to not allow the king of england to do that for us and we have allowed these corporations to play the role of kings in our modern times. we have to face the question now to become a nation that can rule its own destiny, just as we had two years ago vis-à-vis england. i think until we face that, we are going to look at all of the zero taping theatrics in washington and be worried about them one -- all of these irritating theatrics in washington and be worried about them while the real problem goes unaddressed. >> we certainly are happy to have you on. richard wolf, professor emeritus at the university of massachusetts, amherst. thank you for joining me. >> inky for having me. >> in the past, you might have used your phone to call your friends to see how they were doing. thanks to the advent of social media, you can just check their facebook account to see if they are having a good day.

scientists in san diego are trying to apply this concept on a broader scale. researchers received a grant to use twitter to monitor depression among americans. scientists currently use telephone surveys, which cost a lot of money and require a ton of operators and despite all of the work the surveys reach less than one percent of the population. using twitter, the scientists say, could cut down on costs and provide a better picture of mental health on a national scale. however, the scientists explained that the first step is to investigate the challenges to cry the sea that could result. then they have to figure out -- challenges to privacy that could result. then they have to figure out how to monitor depression in 140 character updates. that is hard considering a lot of tweets don't make sense. that does it for now.

for more on the stories we covered today, go to youtube.com and check out our website. you can also follow me on twitter. see you back your data clock. -- back here at 8:00.

i'm keiko kitagawa in tokyo. japan's crippled nuclear plant are working harder to fix a problem. the fukushima daiichi site got in the ground. workers check the radioactivity. it was over