>> the boys were all between nine and 11 and from the same extended family. there were killed as they ran away from an initial blast suggesting they may have been targeted intentionally. calling theon, debts -- does tragic. president obama also limited the mass killings of palestinians but defended israel's attacks by saying they are in self-defense. the palestinian-american teenager who's beating by israeli forces was caught on video this month has returned to the united states. he wasbu khdeir says watching demonstrations and east jerusalem when he was seized. the video shows him lying on the ground as the officers repeatedly beat him with batons. he was left with facial bruises and severely swollen eyes and

lips. he was a cousin of mohammed abu khdeir, the palestinian teen kidnapped and burned alive in an apparent revenge attack for the killings of the three israeli teenagers. moments after landing him in florida wednesday night, tariq urged supporters to remember his cousin and the dozens of palestinian children killed in the ongoing israeli assault on gaza. >> there's one main thing i want to say. story becausemy i'm an american. but i hope you will also remember my cousin, 16-year-old palestinian named mohammed abu khdeir. i want you all remember my cousin and a 36 kids that died in gaza. in the past several days. they have names like mine. i hope the violence. for their sake. no child, whether they are palestinian or israeli, deserves sodie that way will stop i'm

glad to be back home again. rocks we will go to gaza after the headlines. the obama administration has expanded u.s. sanctions on russia and the latest round of the standoff over ukraine. speaking at the white house, president obama said russia has failed a drop military support for pro-russian separatists. >> given its provocations and ukraine, today i have approved a new set of sanctions on some of russia's largest companies and financial institutions. whom with our allies with i've been coordinating closely the last several days and weeks, i've repeatedly made it clear that russia must halt the flow of weapons and fighters across the border into ukraine. russia must urge separatists to support a cease-fire that russia needs to pursue internationally mediated talks, and agreed to meaningful monitors on the border. >> the new sanctions are the most expensive on russia to date with targets included -- extensive on russia to date.

ukraine has seen continued violence in recent weeks with u.s.-backed kiev government watching major attacks on southeasternng areas. president obama suggested he will approve an extension of nuclear talks before sunday's deadline for an agreement after briefing from secretary of state john kerry, obama noted significant progress but said key gaps remain. talks over the last six months, iran has met its commitments under the interim deal we reached last year, holding progress of its nuclear program, allowing more inspections, and rolling back its most dangerous stockpile of nuclear material. but as we approach the deadline of july 20 under the interim deal, there is still some significant gaps between international community and iran and we have more work to do. so over the next few days, we will continue consulting with congress and our team will continue discussions with iran and our partners as we determine whether additional time is necessary to extend our negotiations. >> a federal judge has struck

down the death penalty in california on the grounds sentences are carried out in an arbor terry -- arbitrary and random manner. he wrote -- carney said the delays and unpredictable outcomes amount to cruel and unusual punishment. hundreds of prisoners are in california's death row for the nooks effusions of been carried out since 2006 when a federal judge ruled against lethal injection. a swedish court has upheld the arrest warrant that is cap the culex founder julian assange confined in ecuador's london embassy for over two years. is wanted in sweden for questioning on allegations of sexual misconduct, though the charges have been filed. his attorneys a petition for the warrant to be with ron, arguing it cannot be enforced while assange is in the embassy and swedish prosecutors refuse to question him there. but the motion was dismissed on wednesday without explanation.

defense attorney thomas olsson vowed to appeal. >> we will appeal against this decision. we don't agree with the district court in the judgment of the .eed to overrule this decision we can't accept the situation is withstanding. >> how surprised are you today the judge did not want to go along with your argument? >> i think legally, we have a very strong argument. but this case -- it was probably a very difficult decision for the court to take. we had to wait several hours for it. we are hopeful for the appeal. >> wednesday's hearing marked the first formal legal debate over julian assange his status since he took refuge in june 2012 and ecuadoran embassy. to see our interviews with julian assange from inside the mse on independence day weekend, go to democracynow.org.

those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. five-hour humanitarian truce has just ended in gaza. the break was requested by the united nations to allow residents of the gaza strip to gather supplies and repair damage following 10 days of attacks by israel. the death toll in gaza has reached at least 227, mostly civilians. one is really has died since the attack began. there is a report today of a new cease-fire agreement between but detailsaza, remain unclear. >> on wednesday, in israeli gunboat shelled the beach killing four boys who were playing there. the boys were all between the ages of nine and 11 and from the same extended family. seven other adults and children were wounded in the strike. the scene was witnessed by a number of international journalists, including france 24

correspondent. >> we witnessed the incident, the first wreck occurred and we went out onto our balcony. this happened right in front of the hotel's on the gaza beachfront where most of the international media are staying. there were many witnesses of this incident. there was a very loud strike that hit a structure that is run on the gaza port. many people looking out onto there. after the first wreck happened, we saw for very young children running way from the point of impact on completely empty beach. clearly visible from a distance. that is why -- excuse me, that is when there was a second strike that hit the other children, saluting four children so leavingt beach -- four children dead on the beach, very shocking incident. these children were clearly simply playing around and were very am a very clearly visible from a distance.

the health ministry condemned the attack on the four children. >> the zionist occupation created a new crime and the children who were playing their the gaza port which led to the death of four children died on the spot. , clinically dead. medical teams are still in the area looking to evacuate the dead and wounded from the site that was completely destroyed. a large number of injuries arrived at the chief medical center. >> president obama said he was "heartbroken" by the deaths of siblings in gaza but maintain israel has a right to defend itself. >> israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attacks that terrorized the israeli people. there's no country on earth that can be expected to live under a daily barrage of rockets.

over the next 24 hours, we will stay in close contact with our friends and parties in the region and use all of our diplomatic resources and relationships to support efforts of closing the deal on a cease-fire. >> we go to gaza city where we are joined by democracy now! correspondent sharif abdel kouddous. can you tell us what happened yesterda tell us what happened on the beach. >> well, as you heard, these four young boys aged between nine and 11 were playing on a pier jutting out into the sea, right in front of the hotel which houses many foreign correspondents. eight kids actually playing. apparently, enable gunboat fired on them. one of them was killed and the rest of the children began to run. there's a lot of rubble and twisted metal. about 20 or 30 yards away from that while the children were

running, which indicate an adjustment was made to get a direct hit on these children, they were hit -- i spoke to a witness, a fisherman who was right there who said the kids were blown apart. one landed about 20 meters from the other two. they were all killed. mohammed was 11 years old. one was 9, 1 was 11, and another was nine. all from the same family. they were cousins. there are four others who were injured. two are in the hospital. i spoke to one of them and he said they were just playing on the beach. you said they go to the beach everyday. they come from a family of fishermen. he said he was right next to his cousin mohammed when the strike hit and he somehow managed to survive. another one is suffering deep psychological trauma. deep shock from what happened. today met with the mother

of the 11-year-old who was killed, mohammed, and she said he was a child that love the sea. he has seven sisters. his father ruined his back about 10 years ago fishing. they were waiting for him to grow and become the family breadwinner. there's just deep in the deep tragedy and sorrow in the house. this is just some of the stories of people who are killed in gaza . as we know, almost 50 children have been killed over this 10 day bombardment and close to 230 people overall have been killed. we're just approaching -- go ahead. >> we also have on the phone with us tyler hicks, "new york times" photographer who was on the scene when the children were killed. welcome to democracy now! you wrote a firsthand account today in "the times" of what you saw. and you tell us in your own

words? >> yes, actually, my hotel room overlooks the beach, a perfect view of that area that was hit yesterday. for mostn out working of the day. this happened in the late afternoon. i heard a loud explosion, a big crack right outside the window. i immediately looked outside. my driver was here with me. this jetty that goes out into the water just outside smalldow with a structure, like a shack, that had just been hit by a bomb. at that time i could just see one child running away from that into the open sand. i knew there was a strong possibility there would be

injuries or even deaths because of this. i quickly started to grab my cameras, my protective flak jacket, when another second explosion happened outside about 30 seconds after the first one. when i looked back out, that very boy that i had seen running was then lifeless, killed on the beach in the open, along with three other boys who were playing with him. >> tyler hicks, prior to these attacks, had there been any shelling going on in that area or any missiles that you could see or rockets being fired? >> not in that area. has rockets,f gaza you know, it's hard to tell

exactly what these are. drone --rockets from a unless you can do the forensics thoseally know about things, you can't really tell exactly what it was. one thing we know is it is coming from israel. quietarticular area is a little strand of beach, sometimes a few fishermen out trying to catch small baitfish, occasionally a few children -- we learned later these kids have been warned by their families not to play on the beach because it is an open area. but they were be no reason -- this is not a military area. this part of the beach has hotels that are frequented by

journalists. mas would beplace ha gathering. certainly, not this little shack along the seawall. the rubino reason people would be -- there is no reason people would be out there in the sweltering sun having some kind of meeting that would be attacked. >> tyler hicks, as you have been covering this, it is the israeli military used the words "this was a tragic outcome those quote when their missile from the ship of the children. they did not say tragic mistake. they said tragic outcome. can you explain from covering the situation for a while now? they have a very sophisticated military. they can see what is going on, whether it is from a drone, from a ship -- i mean, they know what

they're hitting. it is pretty hard, in my man,on, to mistake grown children nonts, for more than four feet high wearing s, scattering from the initial explosion. in my opinion, it would be pretty obvious, especially given the 30-second window between the first explosion and the second that killed three of the four. one was killed by the first on. enough seconds should be to assess whether or not those civilians orwere actual hamas militants. >> sharif abdel kouddous, i want

to go back to you for a moment. this temporary lull in the fighting, the talk of another possible truce. can you talk about that? mentioned, there was a five-hour cease-fire that expired just as we went to air. earlier today, and the streets were crowded for the first time in 10 days. thousands of people going to market to buy much-needed food and water and just to see each other after these 10 days of bombardment. things and atms, people are trying to withdraw money. i expect it will go back to gaza returning to being more because town, to being quiet except for the sounds of war that are everywhere. the incessant buzzing of drones overhead, loud booms from warships, the screech of f-16s and the constant blast of missiles raining down.

their hit so many homes. there's destruction almost around every corner. three-storye two, concrete buildings completely buckled under. their insides are spilled out into the streets. people's belongings. they hit many graveyards, which are open spaces where i guess the israeli military believes rockets are being fired from. the driver i'm working with your said the israelis are even trying to kill the dead -- with here said, the israelis are even trying to kill the dead. those to the north you came after the israeli military dropped leaflets warning of attacks, entities u.n. run schools. it is very hot and humid. usually between 10 to 20 people, families crammed into one room. many are sitting on the floor. they do not have enough mattresses to go around. very little food and clean water. many people have said, as well theymas officials, that

feel abandoned by the international community. that this is going on and been allowed to go on. they're asking for people to intervene and for this to stop. >> sharif, you're just come from egypt. i was wondering if you could talk about the cease-fire agreement. the first one reported there was a secret conversation, phone conversation over the weekend between the president of egypt ministernd the prime benjamin netanyahu. the mass says they were not consulted on this. can you talk about the significance of this in the next cease-fire? sisi apparently did have a secret phone call with netanyahu, the first time to speak with them since and inaugurated in early july. this apparently was at the urging of john kerry, according to report in haaretz. the difference between the last president that sisi ousted,

mohamed morsi, is the muslim brotherhood had close ties with hamas. morsi sent in as prime minister into gaza during the bombardment , which the people of gaza said was a great show of solidarity. other leaders came in after that including the turkish prime minister. he was toasted for brokering a cease-fire. i think sisi is trying to historic egypt's role as a broker between palestine and israel. hasin this instance, sisi as isantly vilified ham trying to collude to overthrow the military and the state. they have destroyed hundreds of titles that link between gaza and egypt in the interim, and the cease-fire agreement that

was negotiated, a hamas official confirmed they were not consulted whatsoever. they learned about the agreement from the media when it was reported. i think this was a move to try and restore egypt as being seen as a possible broker, but also to marginalize hamas as a political movement. there is talk of a new cease-fire. the details are not apparent yet. everyone wants the shelling and the bombing to stop. >> are the reports of a ground invasion, possibility of the israeli troops lined up on the gaza border? keep hearing different reports. there was an unnamed israeli military official who spoke with a foreign correspondent -- by foreign correspondents yesterday. thank each day passes, a ground invasion becomes more likely, saying it was very possible. if that happens, and we can only imagine the level of violence

will only go up. >> sharif, thank you for being with us. please be safe, sharif abdel kouddous, democracy now! correspondent reporting from gaza. also want to thank tyler hicks, staff photographer at "the new york times." we will have a link to his report at democracynow.org. tyler hicks is the photographer who worked with the new york times reporter who died as he .as leaving libya tyler hicks carried him over the border. when he was leaving syria, that is. we will be back in a moment. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> this week saw the first planeload of children deported

to honduras since president obama vowed to speed up the removal of more than 57,000 youth who've fled to the united states from central america in recent months. the group of 38 deportees included 21 children between the ages of 18 months and 15 years, along with 17 female family members. among them was the torilla cordova, who came to the u.s. with her nine-year-old daughter. they were captured at the u.s.-mexico border after 25-day journey him and are now back in san pedro sula, the city with the highest murder rate in the world. last month, children in honduras were murdered at a rate of more than one per day. cordova described her ordeal to reporters. >> i don't have any work. it has been for months without work. this is part of what motivated me to go, the poverty, the situation, the insecurity we live through. we see children who are 12 and 13 years old and they drug

themselves. it is terrible to live like this. here we live a life or you can't even call the police because they are controlled by the gangs. river andossed the they trapped us, we did not think. we had some hope. when we arrived in mcallen, we were on the floor. there was dust. there were a lot of people there and i was there for various hours. they call it an ice box because it is very cold. they took us to el paso on a plane and there we spent two days there sleeping on the ground, cold. >> on tuesday, white house spokesperson josh earnest said the express of cordova and others should demonstrate to central americans that "they will not be welcomed to this country with open arms." officialsay, honduran called for an increase in u.s. aid to central america. the honduran foreign minister called for a mini marshall plan, similar to u.s. anti-drug

programs in colombia and mexico. policy has long shaped the lives of central americans. june 28 marked the fifth anniversary of the military coup that deposed democratically elected honduran president manuel zelaya. we're joined right now by dana frank, professor of history at the university of california santa cruz, an expert on human rights and u.s. policy in honduras. she recently authored a piece titled, "who's responsible for the flight of honduran children?" in february, her article, "the thugocracy next door" appeared in politico magazine. welcome to democracy now! thank you for joining us. islain what the background for so many and so many children to be fleeing the violence in honduras. >> we keep hearing the fact that

people are fleeing gangs and violence, but there hasn't been an analysis or discussion of why is there so much gang activity and violence in honduras. the answer is, this tremendous criminality the 2009 military coup open the door to win it overthrew the democratically elected president manuel zelaya. the two itself was a criminal act and are really opened the door for the spectacular corruption of the police and up-and-down top to bottom of the government. that in turn means it is possible to kill anybody you want, practically, and nothing will happen to you. it is widely documented the police are overwhelmingly corrupt. even a government official charged with cleaning up the police admitted 70% of the police are beyond saving. you heard the woman, ms. cordova say the police themselves are tied in with organized crime. and drug traffickers. when we talk about this violence, it is important to understand there's almost no functioning criminal justice

system and no political will at the top to do anything about this. the president and the new president hernandez who came into power in january, himself was a major backer of the criminal coup when he was the head of the key committee in honduran congress at the time. overthrew part of the supreme court and illegally was part of the naming of a new attorney general. he has built his campaign not around cleaning up the police, but a new military police that is expanding this militarization of a honduran society and the military police itself is committing human rights abuses, including recently in may, beating up and jailing the most prominent advocate for children in honduras. >> dana frank, i remember being in san pedro sula and early

1990's. not only is the level of corruption incredibly high among the police forces, the military with out in the streets constantly patrolling -- it is also one of the poorest countries and all of the americas. you have also referred to the deal onf the cafta honduras and the poverty of the country. likertainly, it is not there was ever a golden age in honduras, but as senator tim kaine said in a hearing for the new ambassador of honduras, saying the level of militarization -- he said the repression andry terror there is worse than it was then the early 1980's at the height of the u.s.-funded contra war. relativelytalk about this is even more terrifying than then, which is saying a lot. when we talk about the fleeing

gangs and violence, there's this tremendous poverty. poverty doesn't just happen. it is a direct result of policies of the honduran government and the u.s. government, including privatization, mass layoffs of government workers, and a new law in honduras that is now made permanent that breaks up full-time jobs and makes them part-time and ineligible for unionization, living wage, and the national health service. a lot of these are driven by u.s. funded lending organizations like the international monetary fund, the world bank, and the inter-american development bank, which itself is funding the corrupt honduran police. the central american free trade agreement is the other piece of this. like nafta did for the u.s. and mexico, it opens the door to this open competition between small producers and agriculture in honduras, small manufacturers, and job -- as a result of that, with is poverty

that we're seeing that people are fleeing, it's not like people say, let's have the american dream. there are almost no jobs for young people. their parents know it. we're talking about starving to death or being driven into violence with the gangs. it is a tragic situation. it's not like it just happened. it is a direct result of very conscious policies by the u.s.-honduran government. >> i want to go to the issue of the u.s. responsibility and turned a former honduran president manuel zelaya who was ousted five years ago. we got a chance to sit down with .im in 2011 at his home i had just flown in with him. this was after the coup when a new president was chosen. his family flew back from nicaragua to honduras. it was the first time that he was at his home for several years. >> the u.s. state department has

always denied and they continue to deny any ties with the government. with the coup d'état. nevertheless, all of the proved incriminates u.s. government. and all of the actions that were taken by the de facto regime, which are those who carried out the coup. of theo make favor industrial policies and the military policies in the financial policies of the united states in honduras. >> that is former honduran

president manuel zelaya. , heessor dana frank strongly felt the u.s. was involved with the coup. what evidence is there for that? >> the biggest evidence is that we have his plane stopped at the jointrce base, which is a u.s. and honduran base. that plane could not have stopped there without u.s. permission. we don't have the big smoking guns, but we certainly of the behavior of the u.s. state department and the white house after the coup, which was to legitimate the coup government as an equal partner to zelaya, and as a superior partner they never announced the spectacular repression after the coup entreated zelaya like a bad child for trying to return to his own country. they announced it would recognize the outcome of the illegitimate november elections, even before the votes were counted. it was clear they wanted the whole situation to go to away.

it was a message to all those other governments that we will back coups and overthrow you as well. u.s. been suppressed -- supported president lobo and the 2009 election ended up as fiction it was an election of national reconciliation. ever since, turning a blind eye for the most part of the spectacular human rights abuses, including killings by state security forces and spectacular lack of political will to corruption at the very top of the government. the u.s. keeps acting like this is just a hunky-dory government that we should be working with as a partner. i found it tremendously chilling just to be reading newspaper reports and media reports of the planeload of children who came back to honduras and the u.s. working with the honduran government, welcoming us children with open arms when the hasrnment itself

countenanced the beating of the leading independent children's .ctivist in the country the government itself doesn't have the political will to clean up the police. what does it mean we are working with his partner to help these honduran children? >> we're also joined by jennifer harbury commission and rights activist and lawyer based in texas give u.s.-mexico border. her husband, efraín bámaca velásquez, a mayan guerrilla commander disappeared after he was captured by the guatemalan army in the 1980's. she's the author of, "searching for everardo: a story of love, war, and the cia in guatemala." she is spent decades pressing for declassified information on her husband's case. welcome, jennifer harbury. >> thank you very much. >> talk to you, as we've been discussing honduras, many of the children also coming from guatemala.

again, some of that history of the u.s. involvement in guatemala come especially in recent years. >> we have been horrified by the thought of sending any of ese children back by international and domestic law, they qualify as refugees. i can surly talk about the guatemalan counterparts to what dana was just discussing. we talked about maybe sometimes the solution is to send more funding. she was saying the new marshall plan. but that in fact is going to pour gasoline on the fire, especially in quantum all of, where a number of former and current top officials in the military are in fact the drug lords. some of them have left the military and some are still in. they got involved in the drug trade while the wars were going on, and have airstrips that were valuable to the colombian drug lords. they became very wealthy that way. they now have what are called

parallel structures. they organize, arm, and trading -- train the gangs to do the dirty work. for example, a cartel that terrorize the border strip where live now, which is a must down which isville -- almost down to brownsville, they're one of the most feared cartels anywhere, totally brutal, armed, trained, and organized by the guatemalan -- whoy special forces in turn were armed, trained, organized, etc. by the united states intelligence networks and trained many of them at the school of the americas. a kernel, onee is of many high-level military officials, who was on the dea corrupt officer list, but because he also worked as a paid cia informant, no one has ever been able to go after him. so much like honduras, we are one of the highest murder rates in the world.

the genocide rate is something like 10 times higher. as these refugees poured to the united states, we are taking all kinds of measures to justify sending them back and claiming they're not refugees. at the way we're doing that is to expedite or rush them through proceeding so quickly that they can't really tell their stories. of course, they have no legal advice. basically, turns on whether or not a 10-year-old child when confront did with the border control agent or young mother confronted with a border control agent, is able and willing to say, "i'm asking for political asylum because i am in danger at that druglords." they know if they go back home, it is a death penalty. without a lawyer, within days, they will be headed home under expedited proceedings.

this is a violation of international law and also u.s. domestic law. they qualify for asylum or treatment under the convention against torture. if they are in danger of being harmed in this way, by people who either are government officials or ask for or acting without the local government being able or to protect the population, then these people are refugees. they cannot be sent back. sweeping them under the rug and getting them out of the country so fast that they cannot tell their stories or get any legal advice is another violation of humanitarian law. it is something we're going to be answering for for a long time. we are certainly not proud of twong turned back the below not to germany, but at least we did not sell out on the ship central people over boards. these are children. these are refugees. we have to let them in. there are many kinds of programs

that we can put into action that would deal with the situation well in the same way we have done before, we can do deferred enforcement,red tempora protected status. we have done those things for honduras and haiti. it would let people stay for a year or two and then have the danger in their homelands reconsidered. meanwhile they can work and support themselves. it would relieve the backup in the court. we are choosing to pretend they're not refugees and send them home in violation of the law. >> we have to leave it there, but we thank you both for being with us. we will have a link to both of k.ur work will sto been,er harbury, her has efraín bámaca velasquez, disappeared but a guatemalan forces in the 1980's.

dana frank, we thank you for being with us from stanford university studios, professor of history at the university of california, santa cruz, expert on u.s. policy in honduras. we will have a link to your piece, "who's responsible for the flight of honduran children?" as well as your other article, "the thugocracy next door." when we come back, the pulitzer prize-winning economist joseph stiglitz. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> a group of five countries has launched their own development

bank to challenge the united states dominated world bank and international monetary fund. leaders from the so-called brics countries -- brazil, russia, india, china, and south africa -- until the new development bank at a summit in brazil. the bank will be headquartered in shanghai. chinese president xi jinping said the agreement would have far reaching benefits for brics members and other developing nations. >> through the concerted effort from all sides, we have managed to reach a consensus in the creation of the brics development bank. this is the result of the significant far reach of brics core operation. therefore, the political will of brics nations for, development. this will not only help increase the voice of brics nations in terms of international finance, but more importantly, will bring benefits to all the people in the brics country for all

peoples in developing countries. >> that was chinese president xi jinping. together, brics account for 25% of global gdp and 40% of the world's population. for more we're joined by joseph stiglitz, no well -- nobel prize-winning economist, professor at columbia university. his new book is called "creating a learning society." we welcome you to democracy now! talk about the significance of this bank. it is very, very important in many ways. first of all, the need globally for more investment in the developing countries especially is in order in the trillions. the existing institutions just don't have enough resources. this is adding to the flow of ,oney that will go to finance adapt them all the needs so

evident in the poorest countries. acondly, it reflects fundamental change in global economic and political power. one of the ideas behind this is that the brics countries today are richer than the advanced countries work when the world bank and the imf are founded. we are in a different world. worldame time, the hasn't kept up. the old institutions have not kept up. the g 20 talked about and agreed on a change in the government's of the imf and the world bank which were set back in 1944 -- there've been some revisions -- but the u.s. congress refuses to follow along with the agreement. the administration failed to go along with what was what we understood the basic notion that the 20% rate, the heads of these

institutions should be chosen on the basis of merit, not just because you are american. yet u.s. effectively reneged on that agreement. this new institution reflects the disparity in the democratic efficiency in the global governance, and is trying to restart or rethink that. finally, there are been a lot of changes in the global economy. a new institution reflects the broader set of mandates, the new concerns, the new instruments that can be used -- the new financial instruments. and the broader governance, the realizing the deficiencies in the old system of governance, hopefully, the state institution will spur the existing .nstitutions to reform it is not just competition.

it is really trying to get more resources to the developing countries in ways that are consistent with her interests and needs. >> and the importance of countries like china, which honestly has huge monetary reserves, and brazil, which has developed its own development bank that for several years, they're being key players in this new financial organization. >> a couple of interesting points. china has reserves in excess of three dollars trillion. one thing is it needs to use those reserves better than just putting them into u.s. treasury felts. say it isues in china like putting meat in a refrigerator and then pulling out the plug. the real value of the money put in u.s. treasury is declining. we need better uses for those

funds. certainly better uses than using those funds to build, say, shoddy homes in the middle of the nevada desert. and thoseocial needs, things haven't been used for those purposes. -- and those funds haven't been used for those purposes. at the same time, brazil has a huge development bank, bigger than the world bank. people don't realize that but resolve has shown how a single country can create a very effective development bank. there is a learning going on. this notion of how you create an effective development bank that actually promotes real development without all the conditionality and all the trappings around the old institutions, is going to be an important part of the contribution that brazil is going to make. >> how does that bank function differently than other development banks in the north? because it know yet,

is just getting started. it has been several years under way. the discussions began about three years ago. they made a commitment and they've been working on a very steadily. what was big about this agreement was -- there was a little worried there would be conflict of interest. you know, everybody wanted the headquarters, the president. would there be enough political cohesion, solidarity to make a deal? the answer was, there was. what they're really saying is, that in spite of all of the differences, the emerging markets can work together in a way more effectively than somebody -- some of the advanced countries can work together. >> what is your assessment of the world bank under the tenure of the former dartmouth president? we just passed the second

anniversary of this tenure there. >> it is still too soon to say -- >> when it comes to issues of debt. somebodyes a while for to get in charge of the bank, you're talking about a big ship and you're trying to shift it. i think there's a broad concern that he brings certain very positive strengths to the bank. a focus on health and other social issues. but successful development will have to continue to have a focus on some of the old issues. you have to grow. he has a little bit less experience in the fundamentals of economic growth. i think is probably more sensitivity to some of the problems that have played -- plagued the international

situations in the past. but he faces a governance problem. that us with this issue is about, a governance problem where the head of the world bank is chosen by the u.s., even is not an u.s. economic role in the leadership role that it did it one time. democracy, butin it democracy says it shouldn't just be assigned to one country. one of the interesting aspects of the discussions that i've crisis,r the east asia one of the senior or very senior u.s. treasury officials said, what are you complaining about, our telling hunters what to do? who pays the piper chooses the

tune. others are saying now, we are the big players now, we have the resources, we are were the reserves are and, yet you don't want to let us play even a fair share in the role, reflecting the size of our contributions and the economy in trade. and so that is one of the real grievances -- i think valid grievances. it is hard for an institution where the government is so out of tune with current economic and political realities to be as effective as it could be. >> i want to ask about a subject we just had on we were discussing earlier, immigration. and this whole issue of the world economy and financial systems. you have the contradiction that on the one hand localization is raking down barriers to capital everywhere, and yet in the advanced countries, especially,

yet the growth of anti-immigrant movement and not just in the united states, but in europe and england and holland. so you have a situation where there is an effort to erect barriers to the free flow of labor and the impact of these kinds of debates -- just a few days ago you had warren buffett bill gates, and sheldon adelson oblast in congress for not being ofe to achieve some kind comprehensive immigration reform. the impact on this on the world economies? >> there are a couple of aspects one has to appreciate. on the one hand, it is absolutely true that free mobility of labor would have an impact on global incomes, that is an order magnitude greater than the free mobility of capital. the agenda the u.s. has pursued that a free mobility capital,

has been driven not by on the grounds of global economic efficiency -- it is that banks that wanted this. on the other hand, both the movement of capital and labor can have disturbing effects. we saw how free mobility capital from short-term capital, can cause crises. we also know migration of labor has -- has social adjustments processes that have to occur. one of the real concerns and increasing concerns, say in a country like the united states, is that how do you share the benefits of globalization? arethere are wages that driven down. being come in the middle of the united states today is lower than it was one quarter century ago. median income is well below it

was 40 years ago. for the workers has gone up over , yetin the last 40 years wages are down by 7%. >> we will contain this conversation off air and will post it at democracynow.org. about thet to ask transpacific partnership. you talk about it being on the wrong side of globalization. your assessment of president obama. joseph stiglitz is the nobel prize-winning economist, professor at columbia university of former chief economist at the world bank. his latest book "creating a learning society." that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!] democracy now!]

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