>> hinojosa: east meets west in his kitchen, his cookbooks, and in his life-- chef, restaurateur, tv host, and author ming tsai. i'm maria hinojosa, this is one on one. ming tsai, it's great to have you on this show. >> thank you; it's great to be here. >> hinojosa: so people know you because of your televisions show simply ming, they might know you because of your books, or they might know you because of your restaurant blue ginger. but here's the question that i have for you. so you are third-generation yalie... >> correct. >> hinojosa: but you... even though your grandfather studied at yale, he went back to china.

your dad studied at yale, and then ended up... >> and stayed. >> hinojosa: ...staying here. >> yup. >> hinojosa: you're then born... >> i was born in newport beach, california. my brother and i. >> hinojosa: and you grow up in dayton, ohio. >> and we ended up in dayton, ohio. culinary capitol of the world. >> hinojosa: you know, i didn't know this about dayton, ohio! >> ( laughing ) yeah, no; not so much. >> hinojosa: but the questions was how was it, you know, growing up-- and you were the first chinese family in dayton, or one of the few? >> we were... we always joked that when we had our chinese friends over to our home, we were chinatown. ( laughing) so there weren't that many, no. there weren't a lot. >> hinojosa: so what was it like in terms of food? because you know what? kids can be kind of intense when you're like, suddenly bringing something different to lunch that's not peanut butter and jelly. >> no, you're right, you're right. we actually... we did both. being in dayton, and... there probably was 50 chinese people, so we did want to blend in, so we absolutely had turkey for thanksgiving, and we'd have the pot roasts, and mom had the famous clay pot that she would

always do the chicken in. so we certainly had american food, and dad's famous one was his texas toast and steak. you know, getting big steak from woody's market, and he'd buy these big steaks. texas toast was just a thick sliced bread on a griddle. but thank god, they also cooked tons of chinese food as well. it was, one, it was just the best food in the world. i still say that. i'll say that to my grave. but it's also part of our culture, and all... everything that happened in our family, it usually started at the dining room table. >> hinojosa: what do you mean? >> any decisions-- "where do you want to go for vacation," or "what are you thinking about schools," "how come you're not doing this or doing that?" the discussion was always at 5:30, keep in mind. this is in the midwest; you ate dinner at 5:30. >> hinojosa: right. >> and but the dining room table was when-- i had one brother-- the four of us would get together, and that's any family issue or discussion would happen there over great food. >> hinojosa: so was there this whole pressure-- or not pressure, but the sense of wanting to blend in-- from a culinary place? like, what would you take to lunch, for example, when you were a kid growing up? >> yeah, that's a great

question. i mean, we'd do two things. sometimes i would just take the baloney sandwich or that turkey sandwich, and i'd be normal with the fritos or whatever. keep in mind, though, back then there was... the school lunch was 40 cents, so we would actually buy lunch as well. >> hinojosa: okay. >> so this is at south elementary school, and as a side note, 40 cents, everyone got a dime. i used to cross the street to buy a case of hot tamales for 5 cents a piece and sold them for ten, and i said... >> hinojosa: ( laughing ) >> ...and they would say, "why is it ten cents?" i said, "because you don't have them, and do you want it or not?" so that's how i started my entrepreneur. >> hinojosa: oh, my god! >> absolutely. >> hinojosa: you were... >> this was fifth grade. fifth and sixth grade. >> hinojosa: ...fifth grade business man in food! >> yeah, exactly. well, i'm not sure hot tamales is food, but... >> all right, well, okay, that's true. >> it's sugar. >> hinojosa: that's true, true. >> but sometimes, mom would then back a thermos of hoisin pork ts potato bread. so i would break this open, right? and people are eating their tuna fish and pbjs, and i'd take... and i'd... and then literally the crowd would form. >> hinojosa: ( laughing ) >> and i'd be like, "two

sandwiches for half of this," and i would barter. so i would end up, sometimes, with eight sandwiches. i should be obese, considering how many sandwiches i got, and i'd be like, "give me the two pieces fruit-- banana-- and a sandwich, i'll give you one hoisin pork." teachers, too, started getting involved, and then i'm like, "okay, come on, guys, enough!" that was funny. >> hinojosa: so but still, so you got the whole food thing, right? but there was still this like, "well, ming, you've got to go to yale." >> absolutely. i mean, you used to see these pictures... >> hinojosa: and be an engineer, right? >> i had a couple rules growing up. one is, "ming, get any grades you want"-- my brother and i had the same rules-- "any grades you want, as long as they're straight a's. be anything you want, as long as it's a doctor, lawyer, or engineer, and if you marry asian, that'd be great too." i am 0 for three! ( laughter ) >> hinojosa: no kidding! >> ( laughing ) no, not even close! my... all those aside, though, my wife, polly, speaks fluent chinese, so... and is loved by my parents to death. i never got straight a's, and i did study mechanical engineering at yale, i did graduate... >> hinojosa: you did make it to... you made it to yale. >> i got my diploma. my motto was "d is for diploma" my senior year because i had to

get the piece of paper, but literally two weeks after graduating i went to paris and started cooking. >> hinojosa: so you knew food was it? you... how did you know that? >> i knew... i mean, at age six i made my first duncan hines cake. i thought it was fascinating that you could take eggs, oil with this mix and-- poof-- in 30 minutes there was a cake. and yeah, all my friends are playing baseball and whatnot, and they'd be like, making fun of me a little bit until the game was over and i had then i had this cake. i'm like, "oh, you want some cake?" ( laughing ) >> hinojosa: and so you were like, the hit! "let's go to ming; he's going to eat!" >> yeah, "let's go to ming's and eat some cake." and then at age ten-- and this is what really... i remember this story to death-- a couple showed up at our door. this was back in dayton, ohio, where the doors are unlocked, right? it was very safe for everyone in the world. and this couple was driving through, but i recognized them. they were... we called everyone "uncleand "auntie," but they were not, you know, blood. but the first thing you ask in chinese culture is not, "how are you," but "chifanle le ma," which is "have you eaten?" because we... although we care how you are, we're more concerned about, "are you hungry," which gives me an

opportunity to eat, as well. so of course, they said, "oh, i'm starved." i quickly made fried rice. i never had made fried rice, which was an issue-- i'm ten years old-- but i'd seen my grandparents and parents make tons of it. so i said, "well, i'll do it." i made it. it was about a six out of ten in quality. i think i put too much soy sauce, too much oil, but what i did see is they smiled and they were happy, and they were like, "this is fantastic stuff." and that stuck-- that you can make people happy through food. and then eventually, my mom opened the mandarin kitchen in dayton, ohio. she taught a lot of cooking classes and was encouraged by her friends. both my brother and i went to andover to prep school so we were empty nesters... they were nesters early on. and that was my summertime job age 14, 15, 16, working at the mandarin kitchen. and then once again, it kept continuing-- i can make people happy through food, give them good value, and it stuck that that "restaurant bug" as they call it; i got it early on. >> hinojosa: ming, talk a little bit about that experience at cordon bleu. what did it mean in terms of your career and understanding that no, you were not going to be an engineer from yale; you were going to do something else?

>> it was significant because up until cordon bleu, i cooked only chinese, so i learned about primarily beijing style food-- mandarin style food-- from both my parents and grandparents. so i ended up going to cordon bleu and i had a wonderful french family, the moussards, that i got to stay for free in france, which is huge. i go to cordon bleu, i realize that-- wow! the french can cook, too! >> hinojosa: ( laughter ) >> because up until that point, i thought it was all chinese, chinese, chinese-- especially with desserts, right? we don't have desserts in chinese cuisine. you know, milk was never... you know, cream was not around in china, so the pastry cream and soufflés and crème anglaise and all that stuff was like, just... it just completely opened my world. and the first thing i actually thought about was, "why can't i take chinese and french to combine the techniques and the ingredients? why can't there be that flavor combination?" because it seemed to work-- i mean, we call it a wok, they call it a sauté pan. i mean, it's the same technique, the knife skills are the same, and that really got me thinking i can not only perhaps be a

chef, but i can cook what i like to eat by combining the cultures that i've learned from. >> hinojosa: and so how would you categorize, or if you had to, kind of describe what your cooking ended up becoming? because you're not... you're like, "i don't want to be a fusion cook," so what... how do you describe.. >> i don't like the term "fusion," because "fusion" is so forced. that's what you do with atoms, so that's... that's what scientists do. food is blending, so i call it east/west cuisine which in a nutshell is the blending of eastern and western techniques that produce a food that is bold in flavor-- so if you say it's a ginger broth or a lemongrass coating, you want to really taste that-- that has contrasting textures and temperatures. i love crunchy and smooth, i love hot and cold, so hot shrimp toast on a gazpacho or a banana split, right? you have hot fudge and cold ice cream and crunchy nuts. and at the end of the day... a lot of my food at the end of the day is inherently healthy. i'm not a health nut. i don't really care about calories and fat, but because of the steaming and the braising and even flash-frying-- which is

with flour versus a batter-- you can cook more healthily with without sacrificing flavor, which i think is the key. because anyone can make a granola blah, blah, blah with no fat and is great for you, but it doesn't taste very good. so how do you make food that does really taste good and people come back for it that's also good for you as well? >> hinojosa: now, you say that in the chinese culture the first thing is like, "are you hungry?" >> right. >> hinojosa: so you would think that if everybody's kind of always being offered food that you would have a population that would be obese. not so. >> no, not at all in china. it's the... a lot of people are studying it. i mean, talk about the food pyramid. but it's really a combination of like, a steak here-- you go to one of these steak houses in boston, that meat would feed a family, probably, for a week. that, you know, 18, 22 ounce rib eye. and i think it's the ratio of carb to protein to sauce and to veg. there's much more vegetables in chinese food. and you don't eat... you don't sit down and eat a huge... you

know, you might eat a lot of little things, but you're not eating that much quantity. >> hinojosa: so portion control. >> absolutely. same in europe. i mean, look at the french. they're eating foie gras and blah, blah, but they're eating this. whoever invented "supersize" really should be taken... >> hinojosa: what is that about? what do you think, i mean, when you think about kind of, you know, let's talk foodie culture here... >> right. >> hinojosa: ...what is that about in the united states? it's like, you've got to have the biggest, grand slam, you know, all-you-can-eat... >> yeah, i think it's parallel with what's going on everything with this country-- with wall street, as well-- it's excess. we somehow became the country of excess, and more is better. the bigger the house, the better. the more cars, the better. the bigger the plate of food, the better. it's very warped, and it's a shame, because it's quality, not quantity, that should matter. >> hinojosa: so i feel like there's something that's happening in the united states, that on the one hand you have the most availability of food shows, the food channel, food cooking, everything-- on the other hand you have massive bombardment of fast food, you

know? so it's like this double thing. like, "cook at home, do this," but at the same time, when... you know, with working families it's going to be like, "oh, wow, i really could do that great ming recipe, or call, or drive through." how do you see it? >> well, i think on top of that is people... it's really... it's warped, but people, by watching cooking shows, are getting their fix of cooking and so end up not cooking themselves, which is the exact opposite of what we're doing... >> hinojosa: like, you guys have actually looked at this statistically? like there is a... >> that is one of the theories that... i mean, michael pollan said this. i mean, it's amazing. there's so many more cooking shows than ever before, but less and less americans are actually cooking. and we actually think it's because, "oh, that looked great. okay, that's my fix, but i'm just going to go order out." it's sad, because the reason i'm doing a cooking show is to teach people how to cook, to hopefully make them eat, or help them eat, more healthily, and talk about

different cuts of meat or fish and all the omega-3 and all the wonderful things you can get through food. but at the end of the day... and it is-- i'm glad you're talking about this-- it's one of the major problems is obesity in this country. and that starts with school cafeteria, that starts with the food source, that starts with everything that we can effect a little bit. but the reality of the situation is if you're a single mom with two kids and you have ten dollars, you can actually get sustenance at a fast food place for five bucks for each kid. and without the knowledge and the time-- yeah, you can buy organic carrots and this and that, but if they don't know how to put it together... that's reality. >> hinojosa: well, and what about when you have these communities that are now being called "food oasis," where for example, you're in a poorer community and you cannot find a place to get fresh vegetables, you cannot find a place that's going to sell you fresh fruits, so all you can get-- and you've seen this-- the kids walking out with soda pop for breakfast? >> that's horrible.

>> hinojosa: as a foodie-- as an insider-- what do you do about taking on the "food industry," right? because this is, like, a lot of people don't want to talk... we're all about supposedly getting healthy and doing the right thing and eating smaller portions-- what about the food industry, ming? >> it's such... this world is run by money and corporations with money, and that's the challenge. because it's easy to go to a coca cola or any one of them and say, "you need to stop putting so much sugar," and this and that, but they're making billions of dollars, so why would they listen to someone like me or anyone? and what has to happen is that the government has to get much more involved. the fda and everyone on down has to really make law. i mean, it's absurd, but what's going on now in new york is they post, you know, fat and calories at all the fast food places. >> hinojosa: and no trans fat. >> and... but what has happened-- i was speaking to one large company-- what's happened is people now realize that this chicken salad actually has as much fat as their pasta primavera, so now they're going to eat the primavera, because if

they're going to go out, they might as well eat the primavera instead. so it doesn't... just because you're giving the information doesn't necessarily mean people are going to change their habits. i think it has to go back to just educating. i think we have to teach families and children-- starting in second and third and fourth grade-- about you are what you eat. and that old adage has been here for years and years, but is so true. and you really need to think about what you can eat and how government can help the schools-- starting with the cafeterias-- to educate. because in some instances, the kids will then educate the parents. because some of these parents are working their two or three jobs. they don't know about what is good food, or they could actually get a good meal making this soup or whatever. >> hinojosa: so we actually need just young mings at home waiting for us, cooking at nine years old, cooking, you know, a little bit of fried rice. >> a little fried rice, a little chicken soup, a little sautéed spinach, i mean, any of that stuff. >> hinojosa: so take me inside for a little bit, because i'm

not a foodie. >> right. >> hinojosa: i would love to be a foodie. honestly, i don't think i can afford to be a foodie, because it's expensive out there to be a real foodie. but let's talk about foodie television-- the politics behind foodie television. like, when you're looking at these new cooking shows, are things better, or are we looking at cooking shows where actually it's like, you know, open up a can and make it seem like you're really... what do you see? >> well, i think there's two types of cooking shows now. i think there's the ones that are based on entertainment-- and there's nothing wrong with that, and they're entertainers, and they're nielsen rates... you know, they're the ones that talk about nielsen ratings, and they're trying to get higher neilsen, they're trying to get more demographics, so they're entertaining people and food is just kind of the conduit. so they're not really "chefs," per se. i mean, look at the food network, and they're a huge success, but there's really one chef left at the food network-- there's bobby, right? i mean, a true chef that owns a restaurant, that still cooks for

a living? the rest are entertainers. and there's nothing wrong with the rachel rays of the world. i mean, she's done fantastic, but she's not a chef. so fortunately, they do have some shows that are called, you know, the healthy cooking shows and what not, so they're trying to promote that, but i think it is our responsibility as chefs-- and as an industry-- to be able to show easily how you can make good-tasting food. and that is not the emphasis and the focus, i think, when people are trying to create new cooking shows. i think they're all talking about, "okay, what do people want? how can we make it popular? how can we make it successful?" if it happens to be healthy too, great, but that's not the focus. that's not what they're thinking. if it ends up at the end of the day, fine, but their focus is on entertainment. >> hinojosa: so not necessarily so good for a chef like you. >> well, if you take... one of the reasons i actually came to public television was because in the public television arena, you can still do a true cooking

show. so simply ming for me is i'm still honestly cooking the food i love to eat and do. it's simpler than what we do at blue ginger, but it's still true cooking. and you look at lidia bastianich, you look at rick bayless, all... there's mario batali now-- all of us are really cooking on public television, and i think that's the new forum where most of the chefs are. >> hinojosa: all right, so i just love the fact... because like you, i'm an immigrant. born in mexico. my mom is a great cook; and amazing cook with six kids in the family... or six of us all together-- fresh meal every single day. wow, did we love watching julia child. you actually met julia child. >> oh, i've met her a bunch of times. i'll tell you one of my two favorite stories. one-- the first time she came to blue ginger, i was petrified. i mean, i don't really get nervous for people, right? i don't care if you're the president of this or ceo of that, but when julia child was coming in, i'm like... >> hinojosa: well, how did you know? did they call? >> oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. oh, yeah; they called. they fortunately gave me the warning, so, you know, so everyone stood at attention, and of course i did the best meal i

possibly could. and i ended up serving this foie gras course. it's a shumai, it's steamed, and i knew she's never had this preparation, and after she ate that, she... the waiter says, "julia wants to speak to you." so i'm thinking, as i'm walking over with my shoulders up like, "oh, she's going to say it's the most creative, or the tastiest, or the best," and i have an open kitchen, right? and she goes, "ming, you don't have one woman line cook!" i'm like, "oh, god!" >> hinojosa: oh, my god! >> right into my chest! i'm like... and she was right. and look, i love women-- i married one! but... at that point at blue ginger, there was not a woman line cook. and you know, there's only 5% women in our industry anyway, and oh, i was so crushed. i went back to the line and the cooks are like, "what did she say?" i go, "shut up, keep cooking!" fast forward a few months later, i get invited to her home. she was shooting a show with jacques pépin, right? julia and jacques. it was a sandwich show. and she started with an ice cream sandwich, and she started the segment with, "when i was an itsy, bitsy girl, i loved ice cream sandwiches," took a bite, and then jacques' like, "well, in the south of france where i

grew up, i had pain au chocolat," he'd take a bite. they were like, "cut." they had to redo the lighting. there was some bad movement. so they grabbed jacques' sandwich, they grabbed julia's, she was like, "nope!" ( slurping sound ) she ate three entire ice cream sandwiches. she became my instant hero. then we went to rialto, where julia cooked a fantastic six course meal. she just chowed, which is awesome, because she was someone that loved to cook, but loved to eat even more. >> hinojosa: so do you think that things are going to-- in terms of food in americans-- are things going to get better before they get worse? what do you see? >> yeah, that's a great question. i think it's still going to get worse before it gets better. i mean, i think there's a lot... you know, there's the slow food movement and everyone's talking about cooking locally, and you know, we do as much as can. we use verrill farms, we're trying to get meats that are at least from around here, we get water that's local now and not from fiji, so we're all trying to be the... you know, reduce the carbon footprint, be as green as we can, cook as healthfully as we can, but that's just restaurants, and you know, not everyone in america goes to restaurants.

i mean, more people still do cook at home. and i think it's us continually supplying information and teaching people the simple ways to cook-- to make tasty food. it's not... i think if you try to shove, "this is healthy for you," no one's going to eat it. no one wants to know it's healthy, they just want to know if it tastes good. and is it affordable? you know, i work with the greater boston food bank. they move 50 million pounds of food a year out of their new facility, which is crazy, and they're busier than ever. and that's part, of course, of the recession and people losing jobs and what not, but there is an opportunity at least with that, that, "well, here's some food; here's what you can do with this food." and i think that's going to help our country. again, it's important to start with the children. you have to teach them. >> hinojosa: and the children is another reason why you are a real spokesperson for this particular issue, which is food allergies. who would have thought that you would give birth to a son who, at the time-- very early in his life, as an infant-- had allergies to...

>> soy, wheat, dairy, shellfish, peanuts, tree nuts, and eggs. seven of the top eight. >> hinojosa: peanuts... what came after peanuts? >> tree nuts. >> hinojosa: tree nuts. >> so all nuts. >> hinojosa: all nuts. >> walnuts, macadamia nuts, almonds, cashews... >> hinojosa: so what does that... like, when you realize that and you're like, "okay, how am i supposed to... i'm a foodie! i've got all this..." >> yeah. well, we always joke that it's the unfunny joke from upstairs. the good news, though, is i'm a chef, so you can never feel bad for david. david grew up eating organic new zealand lamb rack and alaskan line-caught halibut with fried rice or fried rice noodles. so... and asian cuisine too, because he was, you know, wheat allergy, rice was okay so all the rice products still worked. so he ate fine, but it ended up being my calling. everyone has their calling in life, and my calling became being the national spokesperson for faan-- the food allergy anaphylaxis network. and it's crazy. in the last ten years, there's ten times more peanut allergies than ten years ago. >> hinojosa: what's that about? why? >> it's... i'm not a doctor, but from all the research i've done, it's a combination i think primary is we overprescribe

antibiotics. >> hinojosa: hmm. >> no one grown up on a farm. i don't know if you did; probably not. >> hinojosa: nope. >> so because you don't grow up on farm anymore, you don't build your immune system naturally, and nowadays, if a kid has a cough-- boom-- antibiotic. and our one salient or proof was david... in utero, my wife got an infection. she got antibiotics for the infection, so he... his immune system was compromised in utero. because our other son, henry, has no allergies. and so we just... we're too clean. so antibiotics, the hand sanitizers everywhere... i say this in jest, but i think it's... it would work. if you have a newborn, you should go to a farm and roll him in some cow manure. >> hinojosa: ( laughing ) >> seriously. that's going to make your kid healthy. the kid needs to get sick and build up their immune system. and that plus a combination with over processed food... a carrot's barely a carrot now. so food has been so processed. and you know, the environment; something. so it's a combination of all of that.

but it's the fact that we are too clean and we over prescribe antibiotics. >> hinojosa: so what do you want us to take away from... you know, because my kids, for example, there has been one kid in the entire... because they've had the same kid in their classroom for all their years, and the kid actually was over at our house and said, "yes, i'm the one that's allergic to peanuts." and julian was like, "right, i can never take a peanut butter sandwich to school." how do you deal with that kind of like, there's a little bit of tension there. >> oh, there totally is. and look, we were... we live in natick and we looked at the natick school system. they did not have a peanut policy in place, although they were willing to do something. but you know, six, seven years ago that was that table did not have peanut butter but the other tables are okay. well, that doesn't work, because if a kid touches a door knob and he just ate peanut butter and my kid touches the door knob and puts it to his mouth, he can... it's cross contamination. so we actually looked at tons of different schools, and park school, where they go, had a peanut policy-- a nut policy-- in place. and i think that's what you have to do. that's no nuts, ever. you can never bring food into the school, so no birthday cakes. it's... there's zero tolerance. you can't have a little bit.

there's kids that cannot walk into fenway park because they can't breathe in peanut molecules in the air. they can go into anaphylaxis. it has to be that extreme. >> hinojosa: and you did this for your restaurant. this is part of what you wanted to do. >> well, we... we recently passed law-- which i'm very proud of-- to make restaurants safer. and we did not pull the peanuts out of my restaurant, though, purposely. i mean, i own blue ginger, so i could have done anything, but we have a system that shows what you need to do to guarantee that this dish does not have nuts-- even though there is nuts down the line, but use a new pan or you clean the grill, or you use, you know, you don't use a steamer. it's all about educating people-- just like obesity. it's about educating people about cross-contamination. and we're a busy restaurant, so it'd be one thing to pull all the allergens out of it, but i couldn't pull soy out of my restaurant, right? between soy sauce and everything we use? so it's about how you control it with a system that on a saturday night, you can look at this system and we have checks and balances. ere's seven points of checks

between en td orded and then it's served to the child or the adult. d we go roityou know, i mean, we've messed u twice. fortunately, none's ever gotten sick. but that's twice out of, you know, 500,000 to 700,000 people. and so there's a way to be able to serve people safely. and the law right now is you have to post this poster we developed with faan that talks about cross-contamination, you have to put this blurb on your menu that "if you have food allergies, notify your server while ordering." that helps everyone-- that helps the restaurant itself and the client-- and there's a serve safe training. we're developing a training system that will talk about food allergens specifically. and my best analogy is when you talk about r chien. people get what they're supposed to do when they cut raw chicken, right? they got to wash, and wash the knife, wash the board. it's the same thing with allergens. if you cut peanuts on the ard, you have to wash everything completely off. same thing. >> hinojosa: all right, well thanks for all those lessons, ming. >> you're welcome. >> hinojosa: thank you, and you're going to treat me to dinner, okay, one of these days! >> i hope so! i'll cook you some mexican food. >> hinojosa: i love it!

see you then. thank you. >> thank you. coinue the conversation at wgbh.org/oneonone. captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> garrison keillor: seamus heaney grew up the eldest of nine children on a 50 acre farm in northern ireland, his father a cattle dealer, his mother's family worked in the linen mills. when he was 12, heon a scholarship to a catholic school, learned latin and gaelic. over the years, his poetry has become enormously popular, especially since he won the nobel prize in literature in

1995. >> blackberry picking. late august, given heavy rain and sun for a full week, the blackberries would ripen. at first, just one-- a glossy purple clot among others, red, green, hard as a knot. you ate that first one, and its flesh was sweet like thickened wine: summer's blood was in it leaving stains upon the tongue and lust for picking. then red ones inked up and that hunger sent us out with milk cans, pea tins, jam-pots where briars scratched and wet grass bleached our boots. 'round hayfields, cornfields, and potato-drills we trekked and picked until the cans were full; until the tinkling bottom had been covered with green ones, and on top big, dark blobs burned like a plate of eyes. our hands were peppered with thorn pricks; our palms sticky

as bluebeard's. we hoarded the fresh berries in the byre. but when the bath was filled we found a fur, a rat-grey fungus, glutting on our cache. the juice was stinking too. once off the bush the fruit fermented; the sweet flesh would turn sour. i always felt like crying. it wasn't fair that all the lovely canfulls smelt of rot. each year i hoped they'd keep, knew they would not.

i am vexed by free will. why? because free will seems impossible. if the world is determined, if every action is caused by a previous action - then we are not free to choose what we do. and if the world is not determined if actions are random - then we are also not free because randomness