12/30/14 12/30/14 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica this is democracy now. >> it is the policy of the united states to deny kidnappers the benefits of the criminal acts, and that includes ransom. >> in a year that saw the brutal televised killings of western captives but isis, could a change in u.s. hostage policy could have saved american lives. at least 15 others were captured that walked free because her governments, all but one european, have negotiated and paid millions of dollars to win the release. today, the unique roundtable.

we'll speak with philip balboni president and ceo of globalpost, where james foley was a freelance reporter when he was taken hostage in 2012, and who u.s. threatened his family with prosecution if they attempted to pay ransom. foley was beheaded. we will also speak with the former chief of the fbi's crisis negotiation unit, gary noesner and with sarah shourd held prisoner by iran for or 10 days and released through negotiation with a third country which facilitated half $1 million each for her and her two friends josh for tall and shane bauer. and we will be joined by new york attorney stanley cohen directly involved in secret talks with the freedom of u.s. aid worker peter kassig held by isis in syria when u.s. ally -- the talks collapsed and kassig was beheaded soon after.

all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. indonesian rescuers have found dozens of bodies and debris from a passenger plane that was carrying 162 people when it disappeared on the way to singapore sunday. the remains were found in the karimata strait off the coast of borneo. airasia flight 8501 had requested permission to climb to a higher altitude amidst bad weather, but the response was delayed due to heavy air traffic, and the plane disappeared. leftists in greece appear poised for a historic victory after lawmakers rejected the prime minister's nominee for president, setting the stage for early elections next month. the failed vote triggers the dissolution of parliament and comes amidst mounting outrage over austerity policies which have come as part of greece's international bailout.

the left wing syriza party is leading in polls, paving the way for a left-wing government to take control in greece for the -- party bent on reversing deep cuts demanded by international lenders. alexis tsipras, leader of the syriza party, and likely the next prime minister of greece, celebrated monday's outcome. >> today is the beginning of the end of regime that sunk us into grief and desperation. the beginning of the and for those who worship mostly servants of catastrophic policies. >> the u.s. military says it has carried out an airstrike in somalia targeting a senior leader of the militant group al-shabab. the pentagon said in a statement it did not believe any civilians had been killed in the strike, but did not say whether the

intended target was hit. last week on christmas al-shabab attacked the african union base in mogadishu, killing nine people in what it said was a retaliation for another u.s. drone strike, which killed the group's leader in september. on saturday, another top al-shabab figure who was the subject of a $3 million u.s. bounty surrendered to police in somalia. u.s.-led forces have also continued bombing islamic state militants, with 12 airstrikes in syria and six in iraq on monday alone. a new report has revealed a kill list used by the u.s.-led nato coalition in afghanistan targeted not only high-level commanders of the taliban, but mid and lower-level operatives and even drug dealers. the secret documents, at least some of which came from nsa whistleblower edward snowden span from 2009 and 2011. according to the german newsmagazine der spiegel which reviewed them, they show targeted killings were -- "not just viewed as a last resort to prevent attacks, but

were in fact part of everyday life in the guerilla war in afghanistan." in one case, a young boy was killed and his father injured by a british helicopter pilot who was targeting a suspected mid-level taliban commander. meanwhile, another round of documents from snowden published by der spiegel show some encryption tactics have successfully thwarted spying by the national security agency. an nsa document describes how -- liberian officials are reporting a new flare-up of ebola cases along the border with sierra leone. the announcement of dozens of new cases comes after liberia reported strides in combating the virus. the news comes as the death toll in the three worst-hit countries in west africa has topped 7,800, with more than 20,000 people falling ill with ebola. in britain, meanwhile, a health

worker who recently returned to scotland from sierra leone has become the first person diagnosed with ebola on british soil. scottish first minister nicola sturgeon said the risk to the public is minimal. >> i think it is very important to stress, particularly for the benefit of those watching, that the risk to other people as a result of this confirmed ebola case is deemed to be extremely low, given the early stage of diagnosis as the patient was displaying no symptoms of the kind that would be to onward transmission to other people at risk before she reported this morning as being unwell. >> in the united states, a technician may have been exposed to ebola at a facility run by the centers for disease control. the worker is under observation

after handling samples which were supposed to have been deactivated. an autopsy report shows an unarmed african american man killed by los angeles police was shot three times, including in the back. the coroner's report shows 25-year-old ezell ford was shot in the right side, right arm and the back, where the imprint of a gun muzzle was found around the wound. showing he was shot at very close range. police allege that ford, who suffered from mental illness tried to grab an officer's gun during a confrontation. but his family members and at least one eyewitness say he was complying with police and lying on the ground when he was shot. the police and district attorney are conducting an investigation into the shooting which happen in august, and ford's family has filed a civil rights lawsuit. the israeli military has shot and killed a 17-year-old in the west bank. the military says soldiers opened fire on a group of people who were throwing rocks, killing a teenager identified as imam jamil ahmad dweikat.

but a friend of the deceased who was injured in the attack, denied the pair were throwing rocks and told the palestinian ma'an news agency his friend was killed in cold blood. the news comes after more than 50 alumni, former educators, and staff of the israel arts and sciences academy in jerusalem , have issued a call for graduates of the prestigious high school to refuse to serve in the israeli military. military service is mandatory in israel and those who refuse may face jail. the letter calls military refusal -- one of the top republicans in congress has acknowledged he spoke to a gathering of white supremacists and neo-nazis in 2002 while he was serving as a state representative. congressmember steve scalise of louisiana, who serves as house majority whip, has confirmed

reports he spoke at a convention organized by the european-american unity and rights organization, or euro founded by former ku klux klan leader david duke. scalise told the "new orleans times-picayune" he didn't recall the conference and "didn't know who all of these groups were." for anyone to suggest that i was involved with a group like that is insulting and ludicrous," he said. new york republican congressmember michael grimm has announced he will resign after pleading guilty to felony tax evasion at his new york city fast-fd restaurant thio. afr enri thelea last week, grimm had said he would "absolutely not" resign, but he reportedly reversed himself after speaking with republican house speaker john boehner on monday. the probe into grimm's finances made national headlines earlier this year when he threatened to break a local tv reporter in half and throw him over a balcony for asking him about it. his resignation comes as federal authorities are reportedly

investigating a top democrat in new york state over payments he received from a law firm that specializes in real estate tax reductions. according to the "new york times," new york state assembly speaker sheldon silver did not disclose the payments as required. new york city mayor bill de blasio is due to meet with police union leaders today a day after he was booed by some graduates at police graduation ceremony. de blasio is facing tensions with the unions over contract negotiations and his comments about racial profiling and police brutality, including saying he feared for his biracial son dante. as he took the stage to speak at the new york police department graduation monday, de blasio faced both applause and booing. >> the honorable bill de blasio. >> congratulations, officers, it

is an honor to call you officers. you have reached this moment in your life in a want to congratulate you all for what you have achieved this historic day in our lives. today, the city thanks you. >> the fast-food chain chipotle has apologized to police officers after an employee made a "hands up, don't shoot" gesture at officers who entered a restaurant in brooklyn. since the michael brown shooting in ferguson, missouri, the hands-up gesture has become a symbol for police killings of unarmed african americans. chipotle's ceos said they had taken appropriate actions against the employee. one of the nation's oldest and most controversial nuclear power plants has gone offline following decades of protests. the vermont yankee plant, which ran for more than 40 years, had faced a series of radioactive tritium leaks. its operator, entergy, announced plans to close it last year, citing financial reasons. and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report

i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. after a year that saw the brutal televised killings of western captives by isis, we spend the rest of the hour exploring whether a change in u.s. hostage policy could have saved american lives. with at least four citizens slain by captors in 2014, the u.s. now faces calls to rethink an approach that may have prevented their release. journalists james foley and steven sotloff, as well as aid worker peter kassig, were all beheaded after being kidnapped by isis in syria. a fourth american hostage, a female aid worker, is said to still be alive in isis captivity. luke somers, a photojournalist was killed in yemen this month in a failed u.s. rescue mission. the captors shot him in another hostage south african teacher am a before fleeing. the charity gift of the giver says it had reached a ransom deal with the captors that was such a free the teacher just

hours later. the u.s. said it was not aware he was about to released and it launched the operation. >> family members of the hostages have criticized u.s. government policy for refusing to engage with captors including the payment of ransom. under the sick roach, dangerous rescue missions like the one in yemen appear to be the only option. while at least for the consort killed and one remains in captivity, 15 hostages also kidnapped by isis in syria have walked free. that's because their governments -- all but one european -- have negotiated and paid millions of dollars to win their release. but not only does the u.s. refuse to negotiate or pay ransoms to captors, it has thwartedhe efforts of family members who try to do so on their own. the families of all four americans kidnapped by isis in syria were told they could face prosecution if they paid money to free their loved ones. diane foley, the mother of slain journalist james foley, spoke to abc news earlier this year. >> we had to beg. we were an annoyance, it felt,

at some levels, that they really did not have time for us. we were told very clearly three times that it was illegal for us to try to ransom our son out and that we have the possibility of being prosecuted. i was surprised that there were so little compassion. >> that is diane foley, the mother of james foley. in addition to blocking ransom payments, the u.s. has missed other potential opportunities to win the hostages' release. according to the "new york times," at least seven people who either witnessed the americans' abduction or imprisonment in syria say they tried to make contact with u.s. officials to pass on useful information, including the location of the prison where they were held. but these witnesses say their efforts largely fell on deaf ears. one fighter says u.s. officials refused to negotiate with a sheikh who was authorized to speak on the islamic state's

behalf, just months before foley was beheaded. the u.s. also reportedly denied the overture of an isis general who offered to free foley in exchange for cash and asylum in the united states. >> after criticism from the foleys and other families, the obama administration announced a review of its hostage policy last month. but the review will not cover the ban on ransom payments. administration officials say not paying ransoms ultimately protects more americans by making them less valuable targets. today we will hear from a new york attorney who was directly involved in secret talks to win the freedom of u.s. aid worker peter kassig, held by isis in syria. when u.s. ally arrested the shake they were talking with, the talks collapsed and kassig was beheaded. but first, we are joined by three guests. philip balboni is president and ceo of the online international news outlet, globalpost, for which james foley was freelance reporter at the time he was taken hostage in november 2012. foley also was freelancing for

globalpost when he was held for 44 days by moammar gadhafi's forces in libya in 2011. during the nearly two years foley was held hostage in syria before he was beheaded, balboni worked with foley's family to secure his release. gary noesner is former chief of the fbi crisis negotiation unit. he is also author of, "stalling for time: my life as an fbi hostage negotiator." and sarah shourd is co-author of the book, "a sliver of light: three americans imprisoned in iran." she was held by iran for 410 days. she was released with the cooperation of another country, among. she is currently a contributing editor at solitary watch, and will be publishing an anthology as well as producing a play based on the nearly 75 oral and written testimonies she's gathered from people who have lived through or are currently in solitary in the united states. she is also a regular contributor to the daily beast.

we are going to begin right now with philip balboni, president and ceo of global post. can you talk about the efforts you made working with the foley family to have james released? >> sure. well, when we learned jim was kidnapped, it was two days after his abduction, just after thanksgiving 2012. i immediately hired an international security farm that i had actually worked with when jim was a captive, more briefly as you mentioned in 2011. that began a 20 month effort to first, find and then free gym. we had investigators on the ground on the turkish syria border within a matter of days. many of them stayed for months. running down leads trying to

determine who had taken him and how we might be able to be in contact with them and start negotiating for his release. so it was an incredibly intensive effort that went on, literally, every single day for those 20 months. i personally supervised that effort. of course, we worked closely with john and diane foley, jim's parents, and with his brother michael and others. it was complicated, frustrating efforts with such a tragic ending. i have so many feelings and thoughts about this that they could not be easily encompassed in this program. talks can you talk about the issue of ransom? i mean, these very damming words of diane foley when she repeated on several networks, saying she

was threatened with prosecution if she were to raise money. talk about what the u.s. said to her as well is to you, philip balboni. >> sure. the primary threat, i guess we could call it that came in a conference call with other family members that followed a meeting we had in washington which all the hostage families got together for the very first time. it has been revealed it was a member of the national security council. i would say that we have many contacts with the government -- state department, nfc, diane was received at the white house at least twice. we had frequent contact with the fbi. both the family directly and our own investigators. there were contradictory signals. it has now been reported that the bureau, federal bureau of

investigation, always made it clear to us that they would help and that there would be no prosecution. so there was dissidents on that point, which i think slow down the investigation. i think the u.s. policy should be changed. i'm glad the obama administration has begun that review, but i don't because far enough. as i said in the story of "the new york times," the story really isn't nuanced. i don't think we need to change the public posture of never paying a ransom. that has merit in some cases. but each case needs to be looked at on its merits. i think in jim's case, and also in stephen and peter's cases the families did want to pay a ransom. it was very difficult to raise

that much money and to do the coordination, even though we were standing behind them with professional experts in kidnapping ransom. -- in kidnapped and ransom. i feel we might have succeeded if the policy had been different. that will be a lifelong regret for me. >> you were in touch with the captors? what did they want? some thinkers in the media said they wanted up to tens of millions of dollars. is that true? >> there were six e-mails from the kidnappers. they stopped in late december of 2013, and never resumed until the fateful e-mail received august 12 that says that jim would be executed because of the u.s. bombing in iraq. in the early e-mails from the kidnappers, they wanted 100 million euros.

all of the reese of muslim prisoners -- all of the release of muslim prisoners. this was an opening gambit. as we now know, they did effectuate 15 ransoms for sums that have varied from julian euros to 3 million euros and slightly more than that. unfortunately in jim's case, -- >> we seem to have lost philip balboni, president and ceo of globalpost. we're going to go to break. when we come back, we will continue this unique roundtable. philip balboni, heading up globalpost were james foley was a freelance reporter when he was taken hostage in 2012. worked with jim's parents very closely and trying to gain his release. we will be back in a minute will stop.

♪♪ [music break]

>> ed sheeran performing bob dylan's, "masters of war." this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. we are spending the hour looking at the u.s. policy around hostages, how to have them freed. among those with us, philip balboni, head of levelpost where james foley worked, beheaded last year by isis. also joined by gary noesner thomas the former chief of the fbi crisis negotiation unit. he is also author of, "stalling for time: my life as an fbi hostage negotiator." as you listen to philip balboni describe the efforo have jim released, can you talk about what the u.s. policy has been? >> well, it would be a little

frustrating because i wasn't able to hear all of his -- him because of technical issues. but the u.s. policy has always been one of making notes substantive concessions to terrorists, and that is a good policy. it can be supported in a lot of different ways. however, in the last decade or so, that is morphed into meaning no negotiations. which it never was in the past when i ran the fbi unit in the 1990's and up until 2003 when i retired. we were able to be far more engaged and supportive of families, even when they chose to pay a ransom. this should be directed against the government. we should not attempt to prevent families from doing so because that is often the only means to which you can affect the safe and timely release of a victim. >> gary, what accounts for this change of policy? you say before 9/11 that things were different. >> and beyond that a ways, but

beginning with the events of 9/11, i think clearly, this whole landscape of counterterrorism changed far more agencies extraordinarily rater massive budgetary ball -- dollars, prior to then, the fbi would interface with state department and a few other agencies would pretty much managed these kidnappings. now there is literally a host of thousands of people in the government involved. sadly, politicians and government officials want to be seen as an yielding in a compromising in the face of terrorism, so they overly interpreted this no concessions policy to become a no negotiations policy. in reality, there's a great deal of space between capitulating to demands and refusal to negotiate. and that is the problem i think that we are seeing now, that concern of being perceived as

acquiescent has prevented them from pursuing things that we used to be able to pursue in the past that often lead to successful outcomes. >> philip balboni, before the break or before we lost you on the satellite, i think we have you back, you were talking about your contacts with the captors. >> yes, so that series of e-mails that came between late november and late december laid out initially the simple fact they had jim and gave us the opportunity to get proof of life. we were able to do that successfully. it was a true milestone. we knew jim was alive and we knew who had him. but the negotiation around a definitive amount that they would except for jim -- accept

for jim was never consummated. it never moved off that 100 million euros. you have to remember, the islamic state cannot attack from other jihadist groups right around that time and were driven out of aleppo were there previously headquartered. they were forced into eastern syria and ended up in raqqa which is the current headquarters. they began re-communicating, but they concentrated on the european hostages. and they knew about the united states policy and the british policy, and we knew from feedback from intelligence we had gathered that they intended to leave the americans and the british to the end. but they never resumed the negotiations. i agree with my colleague from the fbi that there are private

negotiations, family decisions and this has happened in the past, should be allowed to proceed in the bureau has helped them in the past. do that. unfortunately, that did not get to play out in jim foley's case. >> i want to bring sarah shourd into this discussion. you have written about this for the daily beast. you cowrote "a sliver of light: , three americans imprisoned in iran." you were imprisoned in iran for 410 days. can you first talk about your own experience and how ultimately you are freed? and respond to what the u.s. policy is then for hostages and others held by other groups? >> great to be here, amy. a lot of the recent stories coming out about the mismanagement of these hostage cases ring very true to me in my

own experience. in our own experience, we were often caught between the state department and the white house -- after i was freed after 410 days, i was in the center of negotiations for mina husband shane bauer and my friend joshua foot tall in the red dozens of high-level meetings in the state department and white house. what it felt like to us was infighting, figure pointing, and complete mismanagement of our case. >> when you saw what happened with peter caf au lait and jim foley, talk about your response and what you feel needs to happen now. >> obviously, this is a very emotional topic at a huge moment for stuff finally, these stories are coming out of missed opportunities. when we were in the center of this, we're no one to turn to no one to guide us. we were absolutely flabbergasted

by how things just seemed to get lost in the shuffle and never move forward. it was this intern at a of waiting and misinformation -- it was this eternity of waiting and misinformation. i was on your show many times while we were fighting for their freedom. i felt strangled. i felt like i could not talk about my frustrations with my own government because in pretty direct terms, the state department told us if we criticized our government in action, the iranian government could take that out on shane and josh. there were threats mismanagement. what i'm seeing now is consistently, our government does negotiate. first of all, the way this whole policy is addressed is dishonest from the get-go. there are negotiations like a one, but i think it is very inconsistent and unequal who actually negotiated for and what they're willing to do for who.

>> could you say -- >> are you still there? >> and your case, could you say your case was different because you were held by foreign government as opposed to militant group like i says? >> of course there are differences. but we got the same problem. our government said we don't talk to terrorists, we can't talk directly. a third party was used in our case, the omani government -- eventually paid half $1 million for each of us. i think that is extremely important point. our government says they have is no concession policy and that ransom is never paid, that there is tacit approval for the omani government to pay our rent some. i worked very closely with them. what difference doesn't make it money is getting into the hands of rogue governments or terrorist groups through a third-party or directly? the money is still getting into those hands.

>> gary noesner when you look at sarah shourd's case in the case of the omani government paying half $1 million each for the three of them, i think of the time it was called bail, why did the u.s. deal with this differently? >> well, i wasn't involved. i don't know the particulars of that but, you know, i think we have to be careful that resolving these cases, in my view, is not sibley drawing a big pot of money at the kidnappers. that will certainly encourage more. outright refusal to negotiate does not protect americans from being -- and does little to affect their timely release. we have to have a whole range of tools and options available to deal with the differences.

was sadly has happened, in my opinion, there's been an overly restrictive temperature nation of what is appropriate -- interpretation of what is appropriate to do. that is the issue are hoped this review will take a hard look at 12/30/14 12/30/14 what about the issue of lost opportunities? this new york times these called the cost of u.s. ban on paper hostages, has a tidbit about a u.s. captive in syria and he says that his iphone was taken by his captors. he assumed the removed the sim and never used, but he found out after he was released that his captors used his iphone but u.s. officials never looked for it using the find my iphone option. >> again i can't speak to that. i have no knowledge of what happened in the specifics of that case. but i will say this, when we say negotiation, that is a broad range of activities and fbi

personnel, negotiators in assisting the family are trying to secure the safe release of a hostage, will look at whole range of information available to look at information about how we might open contact with captors. i would assume this was done. if it was not, i have no explanation for that. >> sarah shourd, as you watched journalists after aid worker beheaded by isis, what did you feel, having been freed yourself -- of course, facing death, but having been freed yourself as shane and josh were, were the steps that needed to be taken? >> first of all, i think we should review our policy on the level of mismanagement and incompetence, but also i think

it is worth taking a second look at ransom and our no concession policy as well, which i'll something is dishonest. i mean, it is clear our government is willing to do prisoner swaps for servicemen and women -- bowe bergdahl, the recent trade with cuba. there also cases such as raymond davis in pakistan he was a blackwater cia operative that murdered two people and was facing charges in pakistan, and then let money was paid to the family of the murdered and he was released just a week after he was arrested. there were reports that money was paid by the pakistani government and that the u.s. government was going to pay back. of course, a lot of these reports cannot be confirmed, but the point i'm trying to make is when the u.s. wants to get people out, they get their people out. what we see consistently is the work of journalists and humanitarian workers is not safeguarded by our government

that our government does not have their backs. when the issue of ransom was raised, the argument is often we need to see the greater good and prevent more cases like this from happening. i completely agree with that argument. we do need to look at a greater good and look at each case separately. the islamic state is not al qaeda. we're not looking at the same kind of organization here. the organization, for one, has its own revenue from their so-called government and business activities. they make $1 million a day. so $6 million ransom him at which is what they're asking, i believe, for the last american hostage, the 26 ural to an attorney and worker, a $6 million ransom for the islamic state is not when a make or break the organization. it is a good day for them. but they have their own revenue. you can argue the propaganda that is come out of these horrific beheadings, the loss of life, has been able to gain them

recruits that are perhaps more valuable and damage in escalating violence than any ransom could have ever done. >> philip balboni, what do you want to see happen? >> i would like to remind your viewers and listeners that there are three hostages still being held by the islamic state as we're talking this morning. you have referenced the un-american woman -- the young american woman jim's traveling companion is still being held, and there is a third woman whose identity and nationality is being protected. they are facing the same horrible fate as jim and steven and peter and the others. i remain in touch with two of those three families. i would say the same, relatively

reckless procedures, are playing out. there is not a definitive plan in place to secure their release. >> we are going to continue this discussion after the break. our guest is our philip balboni as well as gary noesner and sarah shourd. she was one of three americans imprisoned in iran, ultimately oman helped to negotiate the release, paying half $1 million for each of them. when we come back, we will be joined by new york attorney stanley cohen, who attempted to negotiate the release of an american peter kassig, before he was beheaded. it looks like things were moving along and tell the sheikh was working as the intermediary was arrested by the u.s. ally

jordan. we will hear that story in a moment. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> as we continue our look at how the u.s. has failed to win the release of hostages captured by isis and other militants, we turn now to the case of peter kassig. a former u.s. soldier turned aid worker in syria, kassig was captured by isis just over a year ago. last month, he was executed in the latest isis beheading of a western hostage. kassig, who was 26, converted to islam in captivity and was also known as abdul-rahman. after his death, kassig's parents, paula and ed kassig remembered their son.

>> our hearts are battered, but they will new and -- will mend. the world is broken, but it will be healed in the end. and good will prevail as the one god of many names will prevail. >> please pray for abdul-rahman or peach, if that is i you know him, at sunset this evening. pray also for all people in syria and iraq and around the world. >> the appearance of peter kassig. well, just over a month after peter kassig was killed, a new york lawyer has come forward to reveal he brokered secret talks aimed at winning kassig's release, and that he believes the u.s. government missed a chance to prevent kassig's death. >> in a minute, we will speak with stanley cohen, whose past client list includes hamas hezbollah, and the son-in-law of osama bin laden. using his extensive contacts and working with the fbi's blessing

cohen flew to the middle east where he developed a plan to free kassig through talks between figures aligned with al-qaeda and the islamic state. but the plan fell apart when the u.s. ally jordan arrested a leading cleric who played a key role in the talks, and the u.s. refused to intervene. kassig was killed shortly after. stanley cohen joins us now. this is an excerpt of a report that details part of stanley cohen's efforts earlier this year. >> meeting or group of al qaeda veterans whom he codenamed the food group. the only way kassig would be released, they advised, was in a deal negotiated by the scholastic head of a jihadist movement. stanley cohen also contacted assistant attorney general in the fbi, seeking support for his mission. he asked the fbi dissension's approach to the sheikh in

jordan, al qaeda spiritual leader. only someone with his standing could been the air. >> october 23. fbi contact was just told by bike coworker -- by my coworker. >> he agreed to help cohen. sheikh initiated a dialogue based on three pillars. one, they would stop all public criticism of isis. two, isis in return with abandon its tactic of kidnapping and executing western journalists and aid workers. three, as a gesture of good faith, isis would release peter kassig. >> october 25. their support among both the religious heavyweights and some of the guys on the ground.

>> stanley cohen boarded a flight very good news for his al qaeda contacts. the sheikhs are on track to make a deal. of within a few hours of his flight leaving oman, jordanian security forces arrested the sheikh on internet terrorism charges. cohen seem to be blindsided by the arrest, but al qaeda's trust it operated. the talks collapsed in with a key advocate now imprisoned, kassig's life was back on the line. >> october 30, the plug as been pulled for now. people more than a bit spooked and feeling betrayed. >> stanley cohen returned to new york deflated. kassig's execution had been delayed, but he told the fbi

hopes for his release had dissolved with the rest of the sheikh. anger at this betrayal sprint any inclination for the sheikhs to cooperate. the worst happen on november 16. >> november 16. oh, my god. just woke up to see your message. i have reached out. >> the video announcing kassig cost vs execution was released. >> a while ago we were informed our beloved son abdul-rahman no longer walks this earth. >> and 26 years, he is witnessed and experienced firsthand more of the harsh realities of life than most of us can imagine. >> that report by the guardian. we will link to the guardian website for the full video report. stanley cohen joins us now in

our new york studio, veteran human rights attorney who brokered the secret talks for peter kassig's release. we welcome you to democracy now! >> thank you for inviting me. >> explain how it was the man that the u.s. was also allowing you to speak with in these negotiations was then arrested by jordan and what did the u.s. do about that? >> the truth may not be know for many years but the reality is, we had negotiated a protocol between the jordanian intelligence and the united states government, five point protocol which specifically committed the sheikh, by some, the most important jihadi, for lack of the better word, imam the world, to specifically speak with one of his students he was of isis. that was reduced to writing. we're the exchange of e-mails between the government and ourselves. after two or three days of

discussions, while discussions were going on with gitmo veterans in kuwait with other people at the same time, i received an e-mail that said from the government, spoken to coworker on the ground that talks are ago. the talks began. i saw the exchanges of information, the discussions while i was in jordan between bin ali and others. it was clearly moving in the right direction. it did not involve the exchange of money or anything else. this was going to be a personally west by the sheikh in exchange for stopping a verbal attacks on isis. after the jordanians had approved of this to go shish and, out of nowhere, he was arrested. the conditions being, they changed, said there were a variety of reasons for the arrest became down to the fact he was talking to isis and was not allowed to come despite the fact we had a protocol agreed to by the u.s. government and the jordanian government. at the same time when i returned to kuwait, kuwaiti intelligence people moved in on ex-gitmo

people involved and threatened to arrest them if they continue negotiations or discussions with isis around two points. it was not just around the release of peter kassig, but also stopping the seizing of civilians, stopping the seizing of journalists beheading and captured her list and aid workers as a new process in the region. >> when you say there was a protocol agreed to come he had confirmation from the u.s. that they authorized the channel with this figure you are dealing with? >> we provided 100 pages of e-mail exchanges between myself and a person who was a lead person in the fbi, which laid out the protocol, the five steps that were required in order for the sheikh to do it. after two days, said the calls are a go. you can do it. he began the calls, the calls were positive. it happened at the same time -- keep in mind, there have been no beheadings for six weeks. when was told to come to the middle east, we were told we

conveyed i was not coming unless there was a guarantee that mr. kassig would be alive and at that point, the beheadings would stop for some six weeks and no one was beheaded. this was a protocol negotiated in a reduced to writing, shared with the sheikhs and al qaeda heavy week, so to speak, and the talks were underway. >> talk about how the talks went. >> there were two different angles or approaches. one had to do with ex gitmo. imagine you are in a gitmo veterans. you are a prisoner. people who had been tortured. these were folks i worked with over the prior few years in some cases of mine. they made a decision that was in the best interest for many for these beheadings to stop. i was told to come to the middle east. the people in kuwait were negotiating with fighters from isis while i was told i had to go to jordan to speak with the sheikhs.

if they were going to release anyone isis, it would really come through discussions with the sheikh. i went and we met. there were telephones purchased. there were communications underway. the government was aware of what was proceeding at all times. they made a request for the identity of the three people that sheikh was speaking with. you agree to provide them. you provided them. the fbi had them. the discussions were underway. not only were there no beheadings for six weeks at all, but al qaeda for the first time a public pronouncements calling for the saving of mr. kassig and the cessation of beheadings. clearly, there was positive movement underway that a nothing to do with money, head of the to do with buying freedom, and all based upon the discussion between religious leaders who were opposed to the beheadings and the captors, and i says, their leadership, the religious readership. >> why did jordan say they arrested him and what did the u.s. or didn't the u.s. do?

>> initially, jordan said they arrested him because of a post he had done a month before. a post in which he called for unification because of the new crusades, meaning the bombings. i found it interesting that jordan arrested him and told the u.s. it was ok and go for it and you can do it, knowing two days later he was to be arrested. after his arrest, i reached out to the government immediately and i was very blunt. i said, you just basically killed not you, but we have all been sent back. someone needs to get on the phone whether it is the white house or state department and call jordan, release moqdisi get these talks underway, get them moving once again. i had discussions and they could proceed, we just need to get moqdisi backout. moqdisi was not charged with acts of terrorism or acts of conspiracy. eventually, he was arrested because of the very communications and contacts that

a been authorized by the u.s. and agreed to by jordanian intelligence. >> can you talk about the geopolitical implications of these talks you are brokering? here you have figures aligned with al qaeda and figures aligned with isis, hood been at odds, and that speaks to a potential restoring of ties between the two. >> the record of sheikh moqdisi was clear. that no use for isis whatsoever. this was not about a reproach. the united states has tried to argue one of the problems is it would've been [indiscernible] there's a very public debate. at times, very aggressive and offensive debate between isis and these other sheikhs. the agreement was in exchange for the release of mr. kassig for this new bridge that was going to stop attacking journalists, stop attacking aid workers and civilians, they were going to tone down the debate. there was never a chance of any

rapprochement, of the true groups emerging, of creating a tsunami of terrorism. it just wasn't going to happen. there are a bunch of thugs. these are the same people that had negotiated the release without money of 36 peacekeepers from a different group in the region, just six months before. they were interested in the cessation of these types of violence, under islamic un-islamic captured and beheadings of civilians. this was never about arena vacation -- arena vacation. >> what did they say? >> they said, we can't get involved. nonsense. the united states made a decision, i don't know if it was the white house or the state department, they made a decision to throw mr. kassig under the bus. because for whatever reason, the

jordanian government did not want this to happen. i have my own theory. my theory is simple. there are surrogate states in the region that were very much concerned about nonstate actors such as these persons being able to accomplish what they could not accomplish, what would have caused a tremendous loss of financial aid from the u.s.. they did not want it to happen. they prevented it from happening. i'm convinced had sheik moqdisi not been arrested, mr. kassig would have been saved. >> and where is the sheik today? >> in prison. every 15 days he sees and intelligence judge. he just renews it, renews it rent is it. >> what about the motive of the u.s.? >> some believe the u.s. did not want it to happen, they were afraid of this rapprochement they wanted the best of all worlds. they wanted to say, we're trying an innovative approach to obtain the release, shocked at the speed by which we really move. this occurred within a 17-day period.

eventually, the u.s. made a decision -- someone in the u.s. made a decision, we're not quite a change are geopolitical policies, we're not on until jordan what to do, and mr. kassig died. >> stanley cohen, you are facing 18 months in prison right now. next week you go to jail for tax evasion -- >> not tax invasion, including the irs code. >> do you feel there is any connection between what you will be serving time for any kind of work you have been doing? >> anyone who knows may, knows i have been arrest for 15 years. the investigation into my work for hamas started more than 15 years ago with clients harassed, people being told if they gave me up, they would get out of jail. there's been a steady practice raids my office. there been monitoring going on harassment of my family that has caused tremendous time and effort in terms of my practice. i find it interesting the disconnect between me, supposedly this person who put his own interest ahead of the u.s. government, but when it can

to my going to the region or the u.s. government taking decisions on the basis of my recommendation, there was no problem whatsoever. i was assigned to a federal judge i have been fighting with for 20 years. there were prosecutors assigned to this case who were recently called liars by federal judges. anyone who knows me, knows the concept of me who is done so much pro bono work, being engaged in obstruction of tax -- knows it is corrupt. >> thank you for being with us stanley cohen veteran human , rights attorney who brokered the secret talks for peter kassig's release. he begins serving an 18-month prison term over tax offenses, a case he says was politically motivated based on his years of taking on controversial cases. we will do a post show and posted online at democracynow.org. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york

woman: support for christina cooks is provided by eden foods, dedicated to the creation and maintenance of purity in food... and suzanne's specialities makers of pure sweetness the way mother nature intended. man: closed captioning of christina cooks provided by melissa's-- world variety produce. melissas.com. if you don't want to become extinct, better pay attention to what's essential in your diet. but what to do?

good fat, bad fat, no fat, low-fat. we're unlocking the mysteries of what's so essential about essential fatty acids today on christina cooks. captioning made possible by telenium and u.s. department of education