>> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community, and from the texas board of legal specialization, board certified attorneys in your community, experienced, respected and tested. also by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy, and its global health care consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the the alice kleberg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. >> i'm evan smith, husband and wife. thirteenth studio album fade was released last year. they're ayera kaplan and georgia hubley, this is overheard

>> actually, there's not two sides to every issue >> i guess we can't fire him now >> i guess we can't fire him now. the night they win an emmy >> being on the supreme court was an improbable dream. it's hard work and it's controversial >> without information, there is no freedom, and it's journalists who provide that information >> window rolls downed and this guy says, hey, he goes until 11. [ [laughter].] >> irera, georgia, welcome. nice to see you both >> thank you. >> december of this year is 30 years since the band possible. >> yeah diswhra how is that possible? you look the same age. i used to see you when i was at college. you seem exactly the same. it kbt be 30 years -- cannot be 30 years >> well, that's one of the advantages of never going away, is because we change slowly. if you look at the picture from 30 years ago... >> i would see differences

>> like the frog and the frying pan >> exactly >> does it feel to you like 30 years on the road, 30 years of making records? it goes by fast >> it goes by fast. but you start to get to that point where you have a hard time remembering things as you go back. you know, i can remember things in the last five years, but then -- >> if i asked you to pluck out some story or some memory from 1987, that's broabl not a good strategy >> well, i've been doing that, actually. i mean, i took it upon myself to -- on our website to post story from every day of this year, leading up to -- so some of them do go back to the very beginning, those that are dwaish kind of be more cautionary tales >> and of interest to the fans >> hopefully >> i noticed for instance this yeek you remarked on the release of out item sweater was 17 years ago to the day >> not normally that

informative, today's was just playing on the first day of passover >> so much of the world has changed, so much about the music business has changed, you were always, and strike me still as diy people, you kind of take care of yourselves, you think about your music, your business, yourselves, but the whole concept of labels an the whole concept of distribution and everything has kind of blown up and rebuilt. how that's that impacted -- how has that impacted your lives as musicians, if at all? >> i'm never sure how to answer that question. we are so self-contained i don't feel -- there's been time i've argued where we're not even in the music business >> explain >> well, we have the advantage and the opportunity to play for each other, and luckily, there's an audience out there, a petition audience, but we don't spend a lot of time strategizing over mp3s versus download versus

vinyl. we just kind of -- it's one of the pleasures of being associated with mat doar records, -- mat rkdor record day, matador records who we've been with for over 20 years. we like them as friends, we respect them as listeners, and we get to make music and write songs and they get to think about the music business >> george, i'm interested in saying ira say you play for each other. we thought it was about us. i'm slightly upset about that. >> this is where the argument comes in >> so disagree. go ahead. >> that's crazy >> do you think of it as more of a personal thing, and it just happens to be that we're witnessing it or overhearing it? >> i think it's the -- you know, the success, such as it is, that this band has had, however you describe that -- >> yeah >> -- i think is, we do basically follow what we want to do and follow the kind of -- you

know, instinctively what we want to play musically, and when people respond, it's great. but we still kind of basically do what we want and what we respond to as, you know, not just the two of us, but the three of us, and -- >> right >> -- i'm sure we've alienated people along the way, but i think we've appealed to people, too. >> has there been pressure on you, georgia, or you, ira to change what you were doing at the time or to somehow be more commercial? that's the word that gets thrown around >> i wouldn't say that so much. but going back as far as 1990, we made our record in 1989 called president yo la tengo, and it was the first record which had an extended noisey guitar thing, and it got more attention than anything we'd done before. and six months later, we had no base player again, which was kind of a running theme of our early years until we met james.

so we made -- we decided to make a folky covers record >> right >> and the guy who owned maxwells and worked very closely to us thought we were crazy. he said, people finally know you a little bit, know what to expect from the band, and you're doing something completely different >> right >> and we weren't doing it to be different. we weren't like, oh, we'll mess with them now. it just seemed like, well, we've -- there's only the two of us >> let's just do this >> -- let's do this. >> right. >> and it turned out to be our record fake book, which is far and away got us the most attention we had got at that moment >> yeah >> and i think it helped cement the notion that just listen to whatever feels right. >> yeah >> no matter -- >> it's always so heartening to hear one of the things that you want odd do, or i'm going to do this despite what the consequences are, and the consequences are good. it's a nice thing >> yeah. >> it has integrity artist

tickcally >> it gives you the strength and the confidence, well, that kind of worked. let's try that and let's follow our inc. stints >> now, ira says you don't care about mp3, and i get that and i i believe that, but in reality, technology has become what controls all distribution of music, so access to music is greater or pervasive than it's ever been. are you of the sort, georgia, of people getting access to your music for free or the services that stream your music, we don't like those guys, they're just trying to rip us off, what's your distribution towards that? >> women, it's tricky -- well, it's tricky, because you want to make a living doing this. it would be nice if people actually bought the music >> that's the theory, anyway >> but on the other hand, there's kind of not guilty you can do about it. i -- nothing you can do about it. i hate to say that. it's a fine line of accepting

things that you can't really control and kind of what the other side is. >> right. you feel powerless, to bow before the gods of... >> i just don't -- we're pretty successful not thinking about it. it's just -- >> i wish you could teach that. that's awesome >> you know, what are you going to do? and so, you know, it just -- i mean, i think long ago, another thing we just -- one of the things i looked at from other bands is i just saw people get ting bitter about anything. it could be about nobody's buying my records now, or it could be about, you know, we're not as successful as this other band who is so much worse than us. and it just seemed to be derailing their creativity. and we just tried to -- >> right >> -- not -- i mean, there's always great things happening, and it -- to the point that even you say to get the positive

reinforcement of it, working with fakebook, but i think we take almost as much pleasure when it doesn't work, and we know we did what we wanted, and -- >> not a form of mass kism, it's just we know who we are, and that's it >> yeah. it's great. we're very happy when people enjoy what we do, but if we do something that -- >> yeah >> and then if you don't -- if you can realize that it -- you know, it's not a crippling event, you can move on from whatever -- >> and it makes you less freaked out about it the next time? >> yeah. hopefully. yeah. >> you mentioned maxwells, for the audience out in the world, not in ho bow ken or not in work, maxwell's was a fantastic club in hoboken new jersey, i don't know how many times i took the train over from new york when i was a much younger version of myself to see you all and other people play at maxwells, and it was kind of your home base. what's happened over the 30 years is that the whole club

scene, both if -- the locus of clubs and the existence of clubs that were probably part of your lives forever and forever, that's changed. so talk about that. all the old haunts aren't necessarily around any more. do you find new places? >> well, i mean, to an extent. certainly for us, that's the case. maxwell's was a place that i did sound >> you went back preyo la tengo >> oh, yeah. we both did. georgia was a dj there, and we were there all the time, and so it was very natural that when we performed our first show was, we just threw a party there. the owner let us use the back room to have a party. we played, i think it was like seven times within the first three months in the same club, which -- you know, until we start doing hanakah shows and played eight times in eight days, it seemed ridiculous to play -- but it was that era when you could play all the time in one place. now, for all i know, that's going on in brooklyn right now

and younger bands have that same relations >> yeah, it probably happens all over the world >> do you ever total up in your minds or on paper how many times you played at maxwells? >> i tried at one point. i tried to add it up and it was -- >> too depressing >> no, very happy. >> i think of you as a touring band that happens to record rather than a band that records music and puts it out and tours to support that. is that a fair characterization? 13 records in 30 -- 13 studio albums in 30 years is not super prolific, it's not that you never record >> yeah >> but it's not like bands that put out a record a year. do you think of yourself primarily as a band that tours? >> i don't, actually, think of it that way. i think if i thought of it that way, i'd never want to tour again >> really? too depressing to contemplate >> i think it's overwhelming. so -- but i really do enjoy it. but when -- and i think in a

certain sense, even in the last year or two, i actually enjoy it and feel like i can do it more easily than i used to when i was younger, which, in a certain way, makes no sense at all. but maybe -- maybe there's kind of a -- something you just sort of accept things that are happening and you relax more and -- whatever it is. >> how many dates a year would eye say that you're on the road >> it varies. see, i don't think it's true that we're -- i think we do lots of different things, and we've made 13 disaish fade is the 13 in another list, but another list it could be closer to 25 >> right. there are plenty of other things that you've done >> yeah. and we do lots of recording in our space and lots of things. i think, for instance, we made a record under a different name >> cannot be said on public television >> i'm not sure that's one of the 13 >> that was a great record. that was a record of cover songs.

>> thank you. >> you did a record of cover songs, you're not enjoined from saying that, yo la tengo murdering the classics, it has a number of wonderful songs including -- and it's a perfect transition, ira, of the new york theme songs meet the mets, if i was a different kind of host, i would demand that you sing -- this is actually important. if you go back to the origins of the band, the legend is, it brought the two of you together, i'm assuming early 80s, late '70s, is that right >> i don't know if that's what brought us together >> you had in common >> yeah, yeah. >> if the story is true, the story always told about you all, you would see each other at similar shows, you kind of found yourself in similar universe >> yeah >> that's correct >> so the band came together in 1984, but you-all were together for how long before that

a. three years. >> yeah. >> were you married when the band started or did you get married later. >> we got married later. >> is the peter story correct, you were writing new york rocker, correct, and there was a party and the first time you ever played together was at a party at the offices of new york rocker? >> yeah, the db's peter, a member of the db's he used to play at parties and they would work up. >> i mean, it's very easy for us to trace certain things that we do. oh, yeah, this is from the db's. they would play at parties and they'd quickly throw together a bunch of cover song, and it was great. >> right. >> and one time peter asked if we wanted to join them, and, well, at the time, we had just played together in the play room of the house i grew up in, you know, we'd once in a while -- we'd played for nobody but ourselves. >> right. were you necessarily intending to start a band? >> no. >> we absolutely weren't. >> no. >> you absolutely were not?

>> right. >> look at that. >> funny. >> your background, georgia, you are one of four children of two very famous animate teres in filmmakers, faith and john hubley. >> is there a mr. mcgoo connection? >> my dad started out working for walt disney and he worked on some of the disney films, actually. >> yeah. >> and then he and a bunch of other people at disney became disenchanted with the traditions there and they left, striked, and they formed upa, eventually, and mr. mcgoo is kind of the first big character to come out of that. >> incredible -- i know they were just recently -- there was a big celebration of their lives and work. >> there is a program -- >> yeah. this year is my dad's scene 10 yell, so -- scene 10 knee el, so

there's actually a touring show from their show. >> you come from a very creative family. you, ira, were a rock critic. you worked for some news press. >> the soho news. >> and you're a rocker. there was a lot of people definition of a rocker well, i can do that dead. that wasn't necessarily the case in your situation? >> no. is that what people -- >> i think people who do criticism are often thought to be frustrated artists themselves. >> right. well, i would agree with that. i mean, i was a frustrated artist. i just didn't think i could do it better. >> you just thought you could do it. >> no, i'm not sure i thought i could do it. i just wanted to. >> jew just envied th you just envied them. obviously you had some points and traditions that you all found the opportunity to found a band together. >> we -- yes. somehow it happened. >> so the name of the band, this is always a great story for people i'm sure ask you all the time, so where yo la tengo came from. it has a connection back to the mets, does it not? >> it was a story -- >> tell the story.

>> the story happened in their first year, and -- but another project i undertook on our website a couple of years -- two years ago, the 50th year anniversary of the creation of the mets was to try to find the day when this story, which has to be supposedly the center fielder, if you play any baseball, the center field der is like in charge. and if balls hit the air, he calls for the ball, everyone gets out of his way. and supposedly their spanish-speaking shortstop didn't understand him saying snf i've got it" and collided with him, so he learned to say it in spanish, yo la tengo. the story is ridiculous. >> it cannot be true. >> it must be true. >> it's not playing baseball and the center fielder yells something, there's a very short list of things he's yelling. >> i'm going to catch this ball.

>> right. >> nope. that's it. it's a list with one item. >> i changed my mind. >> latin, japanese, anything he yells, that's what he's saying, get out of my way. >> right. >> so the story can't be true. >> and yet -- >> but it was a good story. >> maybe it happened. >> it's taken on the veneer of like the truth. >> yeah, why it's better than truth. >> why even mess with it, right, if that's who it is. >> so i want to ask who your influences were or maybe early tastes as music fans that maybe shaped the music that you create. again when you were looking for other people to join in with you, i heard the names berm disaish mission of burma, that would presume some of the bands that were in connection with you at the time. >> yeah, i think so -- those --

i still love those bands the ones you just named. the does. >> another big maxwells -- they claimed maxwell as their home base also probably. >> and they were when we were started, helpful in sort of, you know, getting us to say something. he actually recorded fire and ice in his basement. >> oh, is that right? >> yeah. >> does that recording exist somewhere? >> i don't think we can find it. >> that would be one of those things that would be fantastic to find over the internet. >> yeah. >> so you listen to different kinds of music. did you listen to a basic array of music? did you listen to the band that's the rest of us listened to at that point? conventional rock and roll and -- >> oh, yeah. we've always listened to -- i think what we were -- i think we were looking for somebody who may be -- i'm not -- honestly i'm not sure.

we -- those ads, it was hard to find people to play with us, which is why it really took us seven years to get our band going. it really wasn't until james joined in '91 that -- i mean, we thought -- >> you had a couple of different people, dave slam that went on to -- dave schramm. >> but we learned how different it was. and those people played with us. but we weren't a band. and when james joined. >> you don't think you became a band until jaimed joined? >> -- james joined? >> without a doubt. and then we started practicing and playing all the time, and even if we didn't have a show, we got taght and practiced, -- together and practiced, and we really started -- i mean, leaps and bounds just in the confidence we had and -- >> but there were no bands in particular or no styles of music or nothing that you can point back to saying we were trying to emulate this. we really listened obsessively to this and we thought that we actually might -- our identity as a band, our creative identity

might be actually reflective of this? >> the aspect of influence, it's always a word i've run from, but to the extent that i'm brace it, it has more to do with an approach than it does with -- i was saying like the db's have these parties, and that really definitely rubbed off, the way that they would play songs. every time you'd see them, they would play songs that they didn't do the time before. >> right. >> and that, obviously, was very meaningful to the way we then structured our band. >> right. >> i mean, to a ridiculous extent. i mean, the second time we played, we should have absolutely not done -- we didn't know how to play the songs we played the first time. we should have just really worked on those songs. >> right. >> but we didn't. we just right from the beginning set this goal that every show would be different, every show and every song. >> set list would be different. >> yeah. >> : and is that the case today? 30 years later, every show is

different? >> yeah. but then conversely, the theely's who actually did play the same song, the meticulous approach they took, somewhere in the second verse, he'd go click. and you'd go, wow, the song really -- there it was. >> right. >> it just created so much. and even as georgia said, recording us this first time, he replayed a little and then bill added this little guitar part. i was like, oh, wow. >> transformed it. >> now it's music. >> yeah. >> and so that kind of approach to making music, i think we learned a lot from them, so it wasn't necessarily to sound like them, but to think -- >> yep. >> -- the way they did. >> uh-huh. now, there is one thing, georgia, about your shows now, at least, that interests me, the decision, i don't know how recently you made the decision to advertise this way.

and i see on your schedule of u7 coming shows at least one or two of the upcoming shows out of the country are scheduled like this one loud set and one soft, so what's the point of telegraphing the fact that it's one loud and one quiet? >> well, i think it came about -- well, for one thing, we like to play a long time. >> right. >> if anyone's seen us, we like to play a long time. >> that's right. >> and we have a lot of different kinds of song, and i think it was -- and then fade, our most recent record is a fairly quiet record. >> yep. >> -- in general, and we thought -- i don't remember exactly how we came up with that idea, but when we were going to go on tour, we thought, you know, it would be really nice to actually, you know, put together kind of a small set where we, you know, actually played a stripped down drum kit. it's just a little quieter. >> yeah. >> and small, and play a lot of those songs from the record and

maybe some other quiet songs that we play, and then just focus on that. and then come back and, you know, go crazy. >> kick the doors down. >> yeah. >> it would be fun. >> and honestly, those shows are really fantastic and they really work together. that's the other part of it. >> yeah, it seems like -- that seemed like a great idea. >> and if you do a softer sounding record like fade, you haven't for -- forgeten yo la tengo. >> you mentioned the telegraphing, that was the only misgiving i had, is the idea of going and you don't know what's going to happen, and the fact that we did tip our hand that way, it just seemed there was no way out of it. >> but the reality is, within those two sets you don't know what's going to happen? a. right. >> have you gotten to the point where you thought you don't want to do this any more. my suspicion with the two of you, they're going to move the

guitar and drumsticks from your head hands. but does there come a time that you're not going to do this? no? >> we've never thought about it one way or the other, we didn't start out five years and then we'll get real jobs. we might have told our parents that. that was not our plan. we never had a plan. >> yeah. >> so why start now? >> right. is that fair? >> that's totally fair. >> i likening on -- like ending on not having a plan. that's really great. it's really great to sit with you guys to consider what's come before. it's great to watch y'all. thank you very much irera kaplan and georgia hubley. >> we'd love to have you join us in the studio, visit our website at klru.org/overheard to find invitations to interviews, q and as with our audience and guests and an archive of past episodes. >> over the years, we've been asked to license songs to

commercials, which is nothing we ever wanted any part of, but we were very happy to write our own music, write original music for it. we kind of didn't want to take a song that had other meaning to us and apply it to starbucks. >> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. and from the texas board of legal specialization, board certified attorneys in your community, experienced, respected and tested. also by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy, and its global healthcare consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the alice kleberg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thanky

>> garrison keillor: seamus heaney grew up the eldest of nine children on a 50 acre farm in northern ireland, his father a cattle dealer, his mother's family worked in the linen mills. when he was 12, he won a scholarship to a catholic school, learned latin and

gaelic. over the years, his poetry has become enormously popular, especially since he won the nobel prize in literature in 1995. >> blackberry picking. late august, given heavy rain and sun for a full week, the blackberries would ripen. at first, just one-- a glossy purple clot among others, red, green, hard as a knot. you ate that first one, and its flesh was sweet like thickened wine: summer's blood was in it leaving stains upon the tongue and lust for picking. then red ones inked up and that hunger sent us out with milk cans, pea tins, jam-pots where briars scratched and wet grass bleached our boots. 'round hayfields, cornfields, and potato-drills we trekked and picked until the cans were full; until the tinkling bottom had been covered with green ones,

and on top big, dark blobs burned like a plate of eyes. our hands were peppered with thorn pricks; our palms sticky as bluebeard's. we hoarded the fresh berries in the byre. but when the bath was filled we found a fur, a rat-grey fungus, glutting on our cache. the juice was stinking too. once off the bush the fruit fermented; the sweet flesh would turn sour. i always felt like crying. it wasn't fair that all the lovely canfulls smelt of rot. each year i hoped they'd keep, knew they would not.