♪ amy: from pacifica this is democracy now! >> these were shots that were parallel to the ground, not only air, they were not skip shots and we have to make an assumption of these shots were directed exactly at my police officers. amy: in ferguson, missouri, two officers were shot outside the city's police headquarters. this is after the police chief resigned. eyewitnesses said the shots came from a nearby hill far away from the protest at the police station. the officers are in serious condition. we will speak with a clergy man one of the protesters who is

outside the police station at the time. then to madison, wisconsin. >> it is the issue of racial disparity and racial injustices we will soon have a ferguson on our handss. s. we said it. we have numbers three times as bad as ferguson. we have a 19-year-old like black boy dead, shot five times. amy: then the university of oklahoma expels two fraternity members and shuts down the sigma alpha epsilon fraternity after a video showed students singing a racist song. but first to iran. republican senators are accused of trying to undermine the ongoing nuclear talks by penning an open letter to the iranian government. >> my reaction to the letter was utter disbelief. during my 29 years here in the senate, i never heard of nor

even heard of it being proposed anything comparable to this. amy: all that and more coming up. welcome to democracy now democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in ferguson, missouri two police , officers have been shot during a protest outside ferguson police headquarters early this morning. the shooting came just hours after police chief thomas jackson wentquit following last week's u.s. justice department report that found widespread racially biased abuses in the city's justice system. police say both the wounded officers have serious injury. we will go to ferguson later in the broadcast. fighting is raging in western iraq as the iraqi military

continues an iranian-backed offensive against the self-proclaimed islamic state. syrian leader spoke of avery took large parts of tickertikrit. meanwhile, isil militants launched a series of suicide missions killing 10 and wounding at least 30. the obama administration is making a case for expansive war measure. defense secretary asked carter said the proposal before congress could allow strikes against isil affiliates in libya and nigeria. a top u.s. official have accused russia of moving heavy tanks into ukraine in violation of last month's ceasefire. victoria nuland, the assistant secretary of state for europe, made the claim during a congressional hearing.

assistant secretary nuland: just in the last few days, we can confirm armored vehicles, heavy artillery, and rocket equipment over the border to the separatists in ukraine. amy: the obama administration has just announced $75 million dollars in new non-lethal military assistance to ukraine. but president obama continues to resist calls from both parties and from within his own cabinet to arm the ukrainian government. according to the "new york times," obama has told aides he does not want to encourage ukraine to fight a war it can't win and also hopes to give the ceasefire a chance. on wednesday, white house press secretary josh earnest renewed obama's rejection of arming ukraine. mr. earnest: there are a couple of consequences we talked about of providing additional lethal assistance to ukraine. the first is it is likely to lead to greater bloodshed, and the fact is our engagement here

and our support for the ongoing diplomatic negotiations as that we are trying to avoid the bloodshed, so that is something the president is mindful of. the second is the president has mindful of the fact that there is not a military solution to this problem. amy: in other ukraine news, the international monetary fund has agreed to extend a $17.5 billion loan package to kiev in a bid to help prevent economic collapse. the credit will be provided in return for deep structural reforms and cuts to government spending. venezuelan lawmakers have granted president nicolas maduro the power to make laws for six months without their power in what he calls a necessary step in "u.s. aggression." the move comes after president obama put sanctions against venezuelan officials citing u.s. rights concern. u.s.-venezuela ties are at the lowest point since 2013.

to see our discussion about venezuela, you can go to our website at democracynow.org. saudi arabia and sweden are in a diplomatic row following criticism of the oil kingdom's record on human rights. swedish foreign minister margot wallstrom was due to address the arab league in cairo, but the saudi government blocked the move, citing -- quote -- "sweden's criticism and statements about human rights and democracy." wallstrom had previously called out the saudi "dictatorship" for violating women's rights and for the flogging of blogger raif badawi. saudi arabia has recalled its ambassador from stockholm while sweden says it will cancel a military cooperation agreement. the top u.n. investigator on torture claims the u.s. is stonewalling his probe of conditions at american prisons. juan mendez said he's been refused permission to visit state and federal prisons throughout the united states. mr. mendez: they said that federal prisons were

unavailable, and i saw to find out what they mean by unavailable because i cannot accept an invitation that says go to california prisons if federal prisons are off-limits to me because if i do that, then every country has every right, like gambia, for example, to say you can visit this present but not this maximum-security wing. i fully expect the united states to secure invitations from state prisons to me, but also to be able to visit federal prisons as well. amy: juan mendez says he's particularly concerned with the solitary confinement subjected to some 80,000 prisoners. he also says the u.s. continues to thwart his bid to investigate guantanamo bay by imposing "unacceptable" conditions on his visit. the secret service is investigating to agents for allegedly driving into a white house to dirty barricade while drunk. one of the agent is in president

obama's security detail. it is the latest in a series of incidents that have raised essence about the secret service's conduct and property resignation of director julie appears last year. i higher-level secret service officer intervened with local police after the men had crashed into the white house carrier and prevented them from being tested or alcohol. they were simply sent home. the university of oklahoma has expelled to student fraternity members and said lead a racist song caught on member. members of sigma house at salon -- members of sigma out the epsilon were seen -- sigman s alpha epsilon were singing a racist chant and were responsible for "creating a hostile environment" and they will learn that it is wrong to threaten and exclude for stop hundreds have marched in a protest against racism. we will have more on this story later in the broadcast. protesters gathered near atlanta on wednesday to protest the

police shooting of an unarmed african-american man. anthony hill was reportedly running naked around an apartment complex when a white officer opened fire. a witness said hill had approached the officer with his hands raised in the air. the officer reportedly appeared shocked after pulling the trigger, sitting in the streets with his head in his hands. hill was 27 years old, an air force veteran, and an aspiring musician. he had bipoloar disorder and was reportedly in the midst of a mental episode when he was shot dead. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i am nermeen sheet. welcome to our listeners and viewers around the country and around the world. we begin today's show looking at the follow from the open letter sent earlier this week by republican lawmakers warning iran against a nuclear deal with the u.s. on monday, a group of 47 republican senators released the letter which reads in part -- "we will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons

program that is not approved by the congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between president obama and ayatollah khamenei." iran's foreign minister mohammad javad zarif, dismissed the letter as propaganda. minister zarif: this is a propaganda ploy and there is no legal value. this shows us how worried one group is. there is no agreement yet, and one group is speaking about the content. in any case, a propaganda move has been made with response to benjamin netanyahu's speech to congress. it is regrettable there is a group against reaching a deal. of course we insist that if we do reach a deal, it has to be one in which the rights of our people are reserved, and we are sure there are ways to achieve this result. nermeen: zarif went on to warn -- quote -- "if the next administration revokes any agreement with the stroke of a pen, as they boast, it will have simply committed a blatant

violation of international law." secretary of state john kerry responded to the letter on wednesday. secretary kerry: my reaction to the letter was utter disbelief. during my 29 years here in the senate, i never heard of nor even heard of it being proposed anything comparable to this. if i had, i could guarantee of no matter what the issue and no matter who was president, i would have certainly regretted -- rejected it. no one is questioning anybody's right to dissent. any senator can go to the floor any day and raise any of the questions that were raised in that, but to write to the leaders in the middle of a negotiation, particularly to leaders that they have criticized other people for even engaging with or writing to, to write them and suggest that they

are going to give a constitutional lesson, which, by the way, was absolutely incorrect, is quite stunning. this letter ignores more than two centuries of resident in the conduct of american policy. nermeen: according to the website lobe log, the senator who spearheaded the letter freshman arkansas republican senator tom cotton received , nearly $1 million in donations to his election campaign efforts last year from the emergency committee for israel, run by neoconservative pundit bill kristol. the intercept reports cotton was set to appear at a secretive meeting of weapons contractors the day after sending the letter. secretary of state john kerry returns to switzerland sunday in a bid to reach a nuclear deal before a march 31 deadline. amy: to talk more about the letter and what's at stake in the nuclear negotiations, we're joined now by two guests. hillary mann leverett is with us. she served at the national

security council under presidents clinton and bush. from 2001 to 2003, she was a u.s. negotiator with iran on afghanistan, al-qaida, and iraq, in which capacity she negotiated directly with iran's present foreign minister javad zarif. she is the ceo of the political risk consultancy firm stratega. she will join georgetown university as a visiting scholar next month. she is co-author of "going to tehran: why america must accept the islamic republic of iran." ali gharib is a contibutor to the nation magazine. his most recent piece is headlined "meet tom cotton, the senator behind the republicans' letter to iran." we welcome you both to democracy now! how unusual is it, where was it sent, who sent it yet? hillary: it really is unprecedented as far as i can determine. it is really unprecedented.

if you can imagine during the 1960's, the republicans in congress had written to the soviet leader khrushchev warning him not to negotiate with kennedy over the cuban missile crisis because the united states would bomb the soviet union two years later if the republicans won the election. it is tantamount to that kind of reckless interference and dangerous, reckless interference for u.s. interests. the effect here, the conventional wisdom i think in washington is the effect has serves to just portray the republicans as somewhat ignorant or really ignorant and marginalized. a but i think it is having a little bit more of an effect that should be taken seriously. in that letter, the letter that nermeen read the quote from specifically honed in on how republicans warned that this agreement would be just between president obama and ayatollah

hominai is very insignificant. any agreement between you and i states and iran, first of all, secretary kerry said yesterday before congress would not be legally binding, so whether someone finds it to begin with is a question, but even if they were to sign it, it would be secretary kerry who is in you know she is getting it -- who has been negotiating it for the united states. it would not be ayatollah khamenei. really to get to the ethnic and identity issues that republicans in particular have been pressing here in washington somehow this is about islam and islamic radicalism and muslims and to tie them into this package as prime minister netanyahu did when he came to washington and made his speech in quitting the islamic republic of iran to the islamic state, that there are two sites to the same coin.

in that context, president obama has been in some ways eerily silent and i think this is a serious mistake. it behooves the president to make the case, the strategic case to the american people why a fundamentally different relationship with the islamic republic of iran is in america's interest. not that we are doing i ran a favor to welcome them back into the international community, and said that this is critically important for the united states that after a decade of disastrous wars in the middle east, we need a fundamentally different policy and that starts with a fundamentally different relationship with the islamic republic of iran. but i'm afraid the administration is not making that case because they do not want in some ways to be seen as liking the ayatollah or islamists in iran or elsewhere. that will be a problem going forward anywhere with any deal even if there is some sort of technical agreement by the end of the month. that is when to be a problem going forward.

the at administration's inability to embrace a fundamentally different relationship with the islamic republic of iran, and i stress the islamic republic of iran. nermeen: hillary, some have suggested that even though some of dismissed the letter of propaganda some have suggested the letter may have made the u.s. appear an untrustworthy negotiating partner to iran, thereby weakening the chances of reaching an agreement. could you comment on that? hillary: i think the chances of reaching an agreement from the iranian side are quite high. i was in iran in november. i was invited to address a conference at the university of tehran. it is funny anyway, on the future of american executive legislative relations in the wake of the midterm elections here and the capture of the senate by the republicans. so i think in iran they have a very acute, situated understanding of u.s. politics,

and they went into these negotiations very clear eye. foreign minister zarif i liken him to the kissinger of our time. he is a great statesman and a superlative strategist. the iranians have gone into this negotiation very clear and without any mistaken, wishful thinking that somehow congress and particularly the pro-israel lobby and i in washington is somehow going to embrace iran. i do not think this will inhibit them in any way, but they're certainly not going to -- if there were any inclination to trust president obama's word or secretary kerry's this letter certainly hurts that. they are certainly not going to go down that road. it will be more focused on getting international guarantees. for example, through united nations security council resolutions, through increased

relations and cooperation agreements with russia and china. both russia and chinese presidents will be visiting iran this spring, so prime minister zarif and iranian leadership and their foreign-policy and national security council -- they are focused on getting what they want. they have a plan, and they are not going to let this kind of washington politics do without them. amy: washington lawmakers defended their decision to sign a letter. this is senator rand paul of kentucky. senator paul: i signed it to an administration that is not listen, to an administration that at every turn tries to go around congress as you think you cannot get your way. the president says, oh, the congress cannot do what i want so i have got a pen in my phone and i will do what i want. the letter was to you. the letter was to iran, but it should have been cc'd to the

white house because the white house needs to understand that any agreement that changes legislation wadi pas -- will have to be passed by us. amy: hillary mann leverett, 47 republican senators signed this letter and he is particularly significant given that he could be a presidential contender in 2016. so in iran's eyes, he could be a person if he were to become president, who would do just what the republicans are threatening, that somehow they would unsign the agreement. hillary: yes and yes my different voice on the republican side, certainly not someone who is an inox with neoconservatives here in washington. something also that when i was in i run was noted. they know the who's who in terms of candidates here. it is significant, this change in a senator paul's position. it is a little bit odd that you have senator paul not only

lecturing, joining a letter to lecture iran's leaders but nothing in fact it should have been sent to the white house where of course the president is not only a harvard law graduate but withas a constitutional law professor at the university of chicago. the last time i looked, senator paul does not have that kind of pedigree. but even with that, i think what senator paul's argument gets to come i can which is greatly needed, is the administration has not made their case. president obama has at most that well, this is 50/50, as if it is a take it proposition to get an agreement with iran. he is not made the case that we need in american interests for a fundamentally different policy toward the middle east that gets us off the trajectory of dominance in the region and instead allows a more natural balance of power in the region where iran can be a more normal strong state to balance the reckless impulses of even some of our so-called allies like the

saudi's and even the israelis. that is critically important, but president obama has decades, see you are seeing even someone like senator all, who i think has had a more measured or policy approach than the neo conservatives in his policy has joined as letter to demand essentially that president obama make the case or come to congress and let them do the foreign-policy making. nermeen: i want to turn to comments made by arkansas republican tom cotton. weeks into his first term in the senate, he warned against a nuclear deal with iran wealth eating at the heritage foundation in washington. senator cosan:tton: first, the goal of our policy must be clear -- regime change in iran. we cannot and will not be safe as long as islamist desperate's rule in iran -- despots rule in iran.

we need to promote a constitutional government at peace with united states israel, and the world. the united states should seek all appeasement and conciliation towards iran starting with the sham nuclear negotiations. certain voices call for congressional restraint urging congress not to ask now u lest iran walk away from the operating table. the end of the negotiations is not an unintended consequence of congressional action. it is very much an intended consequence, a feature, not a bug, so to speak. third, congressional actions start with crippling sanctions against iran. these sanctions should be immediate, not contingent on further negotiations with iran. and contrary, iran achieving through slow-motion all it might want in a final deal, exploiting the amount obama administration was

the desperation to keep the negotiations alive in for a deal -- any deal. it is time for the response what adults in -- it is time for the response what adults in both parties to stop this farce. nermeen: that was a publicans that are tom cotton who led efforts to have this letter signed and sent to iran and authored it. ali gharib, can you talk about who tom cotton is? ali: tom cotton is himself a harvard law graduate, and he sort of gain conservative same by calling in 2006 4 james rison to be jailed of the "new york times" for writing about how the u.s. tracks terrorism. he was at the time deployed in iraq. that open letter he wrote at the time, he was a fan of the format, got the attention of bill kristol, who began

meeting with cotton when he was stationed at the arlington national ceremony -- cemetery in 2007. over the next few years, they develop this relationship, years before cotton entered politics of eventually he was elected to the house in 2012, spent two years before becoming a freshman senator and immediately made a's lash by the sinking himself as the most hawkish member of an incredibly hawkish body. this letter is basically par for the course for him. it is exactly what he is trying to do. you know, you can just listen to tom cotton himself. he is trying to and these negotiations, and he does not quite say that the next step is military action, but it seems obvious that if you want u.s. policy to be a regime change and you want to have a no nuclear program at all there are not a lot of waste to a that unless you are going to attack them militarily. this is basically the pattern, and there is no surprise that the "daily beast" reported that

this letter was produced in conjunction with advice from bill kristol, the guy who is called for attacking iran for years now. so tom cotton has really been shepherded along. as you mentioned, he took $1 million for his campaign from the emergency committee for israel. these are exactly the type of neoconservative hawks that drove us into iraq, and these are the people who shepherded and really birth to tom cotton's political career. it is not a surprise you he is here doing what he is doing. nermeen: can you explain why these people in these institutions are opposed to reaching a nuclear deal with iran? ali: i think part of it is what hillary was hinting at before. there is a balance of power in the region, especially a lot of these people are sort of altra pro-israel hawks. there is a balance of power they do not want to disrupt where israel maintains -- its sort

of dominance over the region and the israeli hawks, pretty much the broad spectrum of israeli political decision, they think iran should be isolated and crippled -- amy: it does not matter whether netanyahu wins next week in the israeli election. ali: yeah. it sort of ranges from a fear of any nuclear deal with iran to outright opposition to it. there is nobody there in the political system that is making any sort of argument for iran. people do not talk about it. even the leader at the zionist camp, bogie herzog, iran does not come up. everybody is certainly in step with netanyahu on it. amy: bill kristol said iraq would be a cakewalk. you then early big supporter of sarah palin. ali: right, this is the

combination of disastrous and unnecessary foreign wars and pushing clownish little candidate to who will help him carry out this agenda. amy: hillary mann leverage, can you talk about who is negotiating this deal? if you read the letter from the 47 senators, it looks like it is a deal between the united states and iran, but in fact to the countries are, and also interestingly, that right now iran is helping the iraqi military defeat the so-called islamic state. hillary: yes, but if i can just come back to a point that you were just discussing with ali that i think is important in terms of the balance of power in the region. in the 1980's, the israelis were not at all concerned about iran's nuclear programs. they were not concerned about other activities that they now process concern about for so than 1980's, the united states wanted to impose sections on

iran about the bombing of the rude. then the israeli government and a live interview by the event minister ariel sharon said israel would oppose sanctions being imposed -- they would opposed sanctions being imposed on iran. that changes in 1990 now because many changes in iranian behavior but because the iraqi military was essentially taken out after the invasion of kuwait and the u.s. rounding of iraq from kuwait. literally six months after that and early 1992, you have the first visit to washington by then prime minister -- who was considered more dovish than netanyahu, and it was then that he started to raise concerns about the prospects of sanction and it was then in 1995 that the united states first imposes its comprehensive

economic embargo on iran. it is important to understand that even though prime minister netanyahu's rhetoric is very vitriolic, there is nothing in the region that would check israel's reckless impulse is the citys these of. it is something a seems a bit underscore by the desperation and netanyahu's rhetoric and the desperation in the rhetoric of this letter by senator content. it is not being recognized as a bad thing by the american general dempsey yesterday before congress will stop iran's influence in countries as far afield from iran as the m is now recognized and not seen as necessarily a bad thing. some in washington would

prefer iraqi influence in yemen as opposed to al qaeda in yemen so there is already been a sounds of power around the world, but i think there is an unacknowledged way, excepting in some form. that comes into play with negotiations with iran. even though they appear right now to be very focused on the u.s.-iranian part, they do very much include the other members of the security council, plus germany. in the security council, i think two of the most important players on the iran issue are russia and china. they have not been very vocal in terms of what their demands are in the negotiations, but they're going to be critically important for iran going forward. not because of some military or nefarious reason, but because particularly for china, as china is looking to in a lot of ways reestablish their silk road and balance against the u.s. encroachment toward them in east

asia by trying to reestablish this silk road, looking west into central asia and thwart iran, iran is quickly important. i think we will see an historic visit by chinese president xi to iran in may. there are certainly a lot of other important players here. i think secretary kerry in some ways is doing a good job trying to juggle all those pieces and reorient the united states for a fundamentally new world where the balance of power in the middle east is already changing. the balance of power around the world is already changing, and the united eights must accommodate itself to that. amy: and the u.s. being on the same side of iran when it comes to the islamic state. hillary: yes. in a different balance of power where the united states is not seeking dominance in the middle east, where we are not seeking to impose political outcomes or regimes in the

country. in that kind of scenario where the united states is not seeking all-out dominance, iran has to be not just an important player but an important partner and i think an american administrations have recognized that before. they certainly recognize that under the shah's iran, but it was unstable because it was not representative. what is so important about iran today as the islamic republic as many in washington in particular do not like what is so important is that it is pursuing an independent foreign policy and it has indigenous leak created and that for much more legitimate political order, with all its flaws, it is indigenously created, and therefore has much more -- that others do not. it may sound counterintuitive, but that is precisely what the united states needs full stop we do not need a senator

cotton advocating contrary to america's real interest, which would be for peace and stability in the region. amy: we are going to have to leave it there, but i want to thank you very much, hillary mann leverage, for joining us, who served on the national security council under residents -- presidents clinton and bush. she was u.s. negotiator with iran for such he is co-author of the book "going to iran," and thank you very much to a ali gharib, we willing to your articles on iran. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. when we come back, we are going to ferguson where two police officers have been shot. they are in areas condition. it is not clear who shot them. a news conference will be held soon. also, the police chief of ferguson has resigned. they with us -- stay with us.

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amy: mozart's string put in g minor. i am amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: we turn now to ferguson missouri. , two police officers were shot during a protest outside the city police headquarters early this morning. the shooting came just hours after the city's police chief quit following last week's u.s. justice department report that found widespread racially biased abuses in the city's policing and municipal court. st. louis county police chief jon belmar said he believed the officers were directly targeted. chief belmar: i do not know who did the shooting to be honest with you right now, but somehow they were embedded in that group of folks.

i would have to make in a suction right now that based on the fact that these officers were standing together and there were several officers standing right there together when this happened, that, you know, these were shots that were parallel to the ground, not up in the air. they were not skip shots, and we have to make an assumption that these shots were directed exactly at my police officers. amy: one officer was shot in the face, the other was shot in the shoulder. some eyewitnesses disputed the claim that the shooter was embedded with the protesters. activist deray mckesson tweeted -- "the shooter was not with the protestors. the shooter was atop the hill." yourpierre thomas with abc news says it appears to be a random shooting by someone who just showed up. just hours before the shooting ferguson mayor james knowles discussed the resignation of ferguson police chief thomas jackson and the justice department report. mayor knowles: we need to talk

about the way moving forward with someone else, so he left, but that is not to say that that is an indication of anything at this point. again, we want to go, and we have been going through that report and identifying the breakdown. amy: police chief jackson will receive $96,000 in severance pay. city manager john shaw, who resigned a day earlier, will receive $120,000. the city of ferguson will also cover their health insurance costs for a year. municipal judge ronald brockmeyer has also resigned. we will go now to ferguson where we are joined by a pastor from the first baptist choice in massachusetts, who was dispatched by ferguson -- to ferguson by the reconciliation. most significant lead right now he was outside the police station right last night or early this morning. reverend, start by telling us exactly what happened at that time.

where were you, what did you see, what happened? reverend: thank you amy. we were wrapping up around 40 or so protesters across the street that had been pushed back by the police on more than one occasion , and then all of a sudden three shots to four shots rang out north of the protesters and north of the holy police station full stop we all turned in the direction of a hill on a one-way street where the shots were coming from, and then we saw the officer down and screaming. then chaos ensued, everyone took cover, we helped clear the lot to get people out say. the police with through their weapons. a number of police cars headed toward the area, and we did all we could to get people out but the idea that the shooter was embedded inside the group of

protesters, that it came from that crowd is not true. rather it came up north of the protesters as we were between the shooter and -- there is a hill on a one-way street that runs perpendicular into south floris, right in front of the police station. amy: reverend, -- nermeen: reverend, what you think this impact is likely to be in ferguson? reverend: the reality is this is a no-win situation for anyone involved, for michael brown for the two officers who was shot, for a community that is grieving, and to has been protesting peacefully nonviolently for some 200 days in the wake of a devastating department of justice, which has confirmed the claims and cries

of the protest, and so its impact can be great. we are concerned that the protesters, this movement will be demonized for the shooting of the officers, and it is just a no-win situation for anyone involved and who has a stake in that, but we are nonetheless committed to nonviolence in this movement, and we will in due time, in due respect, continue our activities to highlight the systematic injustice that the department of justice report articulated. amy: reverend sekou:, one of the officers who was shot in the face was from webster groves and another was a st. louis county cop. there will be a news conference where we will get more information. there have been shots fired

before in these last months during the protest, again people saying they are not part of the protest, equally condemning this. also being extremely frightened. did you all take over when this happened? reverend sekou: yes, yes, we all went down. we ducked and kind of looked in realize the officer had been shot. everyone either began to run or got down behind cars. i mean, it was quite terrifying for all of us, including the protesters as well as the police, many who went down and began to curry -- to scurry themselves. amy: and your response to police chief jackson stepping down, who has resisted the pressure for quite some time now. reverend sekou: well, it is so comic. it is both sad and laughable that it took over 200 days of people in the street, over 600 arrests in a variety of protests

and actions around. the department of justice report, and then a week following, for him to resign. it speaks to a level of -- a level of resistance on the part of the ferguson system writ large to admit any wrongdoing, and to be sure both the mayor and others have said, the resignations do not represent an admittance of wrongdoing. he shall receive a severance package, and his record will not be tarnished, but while he has dissipated in the violation of the civil rights of citizens and journalists over the last 200 days, so it is too little too late. we are continuing to be saddened by the whole affair. nermeen: vince warren, could you give us your response to the

department of justice report and in the resignations among ferguson city officials? vince: first of all, i agree with the reverend that situations where police officers get shot in the midst of these protests are very complicated, and it is complicated and terrifying for the protesters and for the police officers. one thing that needs to happen -- what should not happen is that all the sudden all of his energy starts getting shifted toward the protesters. clearly these are people that -- like what happened in new york, comment and shoot police officer's out of some crazy motives, and it has a tendency to deflate the movement, and that should not happen. it is important to recognize that the department of justice inquiry was a scathing report that essentially put the entire system -- saying in an official doj paper what the protesters had been saying out there for 200 days, and that is important. even though the mayor called the police chief and "honorable man," what is happening here is the police department is trying

to preserve itself. this is actually strengthening its bargaining position with the doj because what happens next is they are going to have to show the department is going to have to show we can fix this and fix ourselves. we know that no system, and particularly no pulley system, can fix itself, and it is hard to see how you are an honorable man when you are presiding over what is essentially a racism factory in the police department for a very long period of time. amy: we were both this weekend in selma where it could be possibly 100,000 people, 8000 -- 80,000 people marched for voting rights 50 years after bloody sunday when 600 voting rights activists marched over the edmund pettus bridge and were beaten by alabama troopers. among the people who were there was lesley mcspadden, the mother of michael brown. also sherilyn eiffel, the president of the naacp legal defense fund. i started by asking lesley

mcspadden, mike brown pokémon, if she thinks there should be more federal monitoring of the ferguson police. lesley: to be honest, i do not think there should be a ferguson police department anymore. amy: what should there be? lesley: maybe just fire them all and let there be some new top, and with the old us with the new training, start with a new batch, and they will get the proper training to give the cubs that are already working. amy: do you think jackson to go, the police chief? lesley: [laughs] do you think jackson should go? amy: do you think the mayor should go? lesley: the you think the mayor should go? amy: what the governor? leslyey: same question. amy: i just want to leslie

mcfadden, the mother of michael brown, and i asked her about the monitoring of the police department and retraining, and she said they should all be fired. why try to retrain the old, one not bring in a whole new group. what you think about that? ms. ifill: it is not clear to me that this town of 21 thousand people neither own police department. we need to look at regional policing issue so we can get some quality control. you cannot get your hands around all of those tiny jurisdictions. ferguson is one of the 90 jurisdictions in st. louis county, so honestly we want real change to happen there. we want a real policing solution. amy: that was cheryl and eiffel of the naacp legal defense fund -- that was cheryl and eiffel -- sherrilyn ifill of the naacp

legal defense fund and before that lesley mcspadden michael brown's mom. vince: what you get is an island of ok, and that is not ok. i agree with sherrilyn ifill. this will cost a lot of money for the department to make the changes it needs to make. we need to find a resource is and be able to have some sort of systemic oversight over all of these departments so that it is not a series of races to mayberrys that are happening in everybody is firing police cheese and the department of justice has to come and times. you can create a better system of oversight through looking at the county. amy: and reverend sekou: the feelings on the ground in ferguson? reverend sekou: many are still in shock having seen an officer go down and having heard the gunshot. so there is definitely an

uneasiness, there is a concern that this movement will be blamed for the shooting of these two officers. and we nonetheless will continue to raise our voices in a rich tradition of nonviolence and bear witness to the reality that has been set forth by the department of justice. and quite honestly try to keep track of all the grieving, of all the weeping, of all the wailing that has been going on in the small hamlet of ferguson. we will continue to organize in such a way that we highlight the structural violence and the structural racism that has been manifest through the municipal courts and policing systems in greater st. louis. amy: reverend osagyefo sekou, we

want to thank you for joining us. he went to high school in st. louis, and when we were in ferguson, we always saw sekou there. vince warren, we would like you to stay with us executive , director of the center for constitutional rights, as we move on to break any controversial in oklahoma over the racist songs and the expulsion of two students. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

[♪ "the charade" by d'angelo & the vanguard ♪] amy: here on democracy n ow!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. nermeen: two members led a races video. if i included a racial slur and val that no black people would ever join their group. the school says to students who

allegedly led the song works of war creating an "hostile learning environment," and all of those who were involved "will learn it is wrong to use words to hurt, threatened, and exclude." hundreds of students have marched at the school in a show of protests. amy: jordan is from oklahoma city is rashid campbell, senior at oklahoma university. he has been participating in the protest against the sick mouth at salon -- against the sigma alpha epsilon fraternity after a leaked video showed some of its members singing a racist chant. also tracie washington president and ceo of the louisiana justice institute on . rashid, we will go to you first in oklahoma city. lay out what has taken place and explain what this fraternity is, the song that was sung, the words of these young men on a bus were singing. rashid: well, exactly what is

happening is the song and the chant that the fraternity is saying, the chance that has been taught to them by their elders or the older people in their fraternity, i have been given information to know that the song has been handed down. it is not just this chapter at the mercy of oklahoma, but it is also chapters around the country who have a similar chance, if not the same tent talk to them. what is happening is the fraternity went on the day party. it was leaked. everybody in the country at large were able to see what was being said behind doors. as soon as this information leaked, a lot of people at the university of oklahoma were explained the ways that a lot of these things were already happening, and now people were making complaints. those complaints were not able to necessarily i think be engaged with the right way, and a lot of administrators were

reluctant to engage the racism claims to but were making because they do not have proof, and i think the media provides proof. as soon as the video provided proof, people, students like myself, were able to mobilize like you said, margin protest to show and symbolize the ways that ou at large and the real sooners, so to say we are not going to stand for the injustices that have been perpetuated. amy: the song's lyrics are filled with the n-word. >> there will never be a nigger at sae. amy: so you hear the horrow. r. there will never be an n-word at sae, you can hang him from a tree, but he will never sign with me. rashid, do you think the

students should be expelled? rashid: yes, ma'am and there should also be investigations into other areas of the university being perpetuated. a lot of people were confused from the fact that they knew some of the students on campus and had classes with them. the students had relationships with other people of color, even outside of african-american, but i think the truth is, and what is going on is regardless of the ways that i think people are showing themselves on campus, there are many things going on behind the scenes that need to be investigated and pursued to find the truth in the way that we does the way that racism is perpetuated. i think if only students celebrate black or -- if only white students celebrate african american students when it comes to football or entertainment then there is a problem because in every other instance, it is demonized or criticized or, like you hear what is in the chant it is, i guess, for a lack of a better term, it is spoke about

in a terrible way to where you understand the innate, internal feelings of a person, which generally would explain the reasons to what there is a tension and a professional asian -- and a perpetuation of racism in the university and the community at large. nermeen: tracie washington, can you explain how the university should have responded? tracie: thank you for having me on the show, and i respect the students for organizing. i wrote a blog piece stating that as an adjunct professor have a as a civil rights professor, and as a mom of a 22-year-old with is a college senior, i understand that the first input to say we are going to get rid of this we are going to get rid of this chapter and we are going to get rid of the students, we're going to ask tellexpell them.

i would have wanted president boren to take a step back and say we get kids on a college campus who are not fully formed adults, and it is our response police to go a little bit farther. what the students did, what they are chanting is discussing, but it cannot be only them, as rashid: said. we have got to heal and educate our campus on racism and that campus includes the entire community, the students, the faculty, the staff, and even those students, even those students who made those disgusting chants because expelling them, sending them into the world not understanding fully how to be antiracist does not do anything for society, but he could lift up that university and that campus to understand how to grow better people. and that is what i wanted to --

amy: rashid campbell, your response to tracie washington. rashid: i have a personal relationship with president laurent. -- borneen. i think he was passionate, emotional, and the way that he wanted to show how he wanted to create, i guess, a similar is asian that they were not going to stand for something. i think that is great. the thing a want to say is it is true that these give me to be educated and we have students that are not from communities that know about racism, but it is our duty to say what we are standing for and what we are not going to stand for. there needs to be implementation for other students and classes to have to teach races activities and educate them on races structures and how we will not perpetuate those things. amy: we're going to continue this discussion in part to online. we would like people to respond facet rashid campbell, thank you for joining us, thanks so much to tracie washington, and things

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