08/07/15 08/07/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: broadcasting from toronto canada, this is democracy now! >> we have to make sure the apa goes from leading us into the dark side, leading us into the torture room, leading us into the abuse of psychology for abuse, we have to turn apa deleting the way out -- to leading the way out. amy: showdown at the american psychological association over the use of psychologists working with the cia and pentagon on interrogations. we will hear from dissident psychologists and pulitzer prize winning new york times author

james risen. and we will hear highlights from the first republican debate of the 2016 race. >> mr. trump, one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don't use a politicians filter. however, that is not without its downside particular, when it comes to women. you have called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. your twitter cloud -- account -- line >> only rosie o'donnell. amy: all of that and more coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting from toronto, canada. 10 leading republican presidential candidates faced off in the first debate of the 2016 presidential election thursday night in cleveland. the main topics of the primetime debate included immigration,

abortion, the soper claimed islamic state, and u.s. health care system. during the debate, donald trump stood by earlier statements that the mexican government was sending the "bad ones over." >> people that idea with, that i talked to, they say this is what is happening because our leaders are stupid. our politicians are stupid. and the mexican government is much smarter, much sharper, much more cunning, and they send the bad ones over because they don't want to pay for them, they don't want to take care of them. why should they do the stupid leaders of the united states will do it for them? and that is what is happening whether you like it or not. amy: the debate moderator asked donald trump about his commons: women he did not like fat pigs dogs slobs, and disgusting animals. you'll hear his response later in the right cast. new jersey governor chris christie and kentucky senator rand paul got into heated discussion over nsa surveillance. >> i'm proud of standing for the

bill of rights and i will continue to stand for the bill of rights. >> megyn, that is a completely ridiculous answer. i want to collect more records from terrorists, but less records from other people. how are you supposed to know? how are you supposed to -- >> get a want. get a judge to sign the warrant. amy: some described thursday's debate as the roger ailes primary since the broadcaster had so much to do with it. seven other presidential candidates who did not make the cut participated in debate earlier in the evening. fox news says -- more the republican debate later in the broadcast. in news from washington, d.c., new york democratic senator chuck schumer has announced he will oppose the iran nuclear deal.

schumer is the third wrecking democrat, one of the leading jewish voices there. some fear his dissent could pave the way for other democrats to oppose the deal. his announcement comes one day after president obama made his case for the agreement by comparing those who oppose the deal to those who supported the invasion of iraq. proponents of the agreement told "the new york times" thursday they still likely have enough votes to uphold a presidential veto if the republicans move to block the deal. -- at the measure is blocked by congress. activists and religious leaders are heading to ferguson, missouri, this weekend to commemorate the death of michael brown, an unarmed african american teenager who was fatally shot by white police officer darren wilson one year ago sunday. michael brown's body lay in the street for more than four hours after the shooting. his death and the jury's -- grand jury's decision not to indict police officer darren wilson led to widespread protests in ferguson and major u.s. cities, and became a catalyst for the black lives matter movement. the weekend's events include marches and a moment of silence

midday on sunday. in news from saudi arabia, militants from the self-proclaimed islamic state have claimed responsibility for a suicide bomb attack that killed at least 15 people, including a dozen saudi security personnel thursday at a mosque. it is the third attack since may in which isil militants have claimed responsibility. meanwhile in afghanistan, an explosion there and afghan army base killed at least eight people and wounded hundreds in the capital city kabul this morning. the attack comes as the united nations is reporting civilian casualties in afghanistan are at record high levels this year. a local resident spoke out after the blast. >> when the blast happened, my children started screaming. all the windows in my house were blown out. my hand was injured. the blast was so powerful. amy: in pakistan, officials say two u.s. drone strikes killed at least four alleged militants thursday. the strikes hit a tribal region

of north waziristan bordering afghanistan where the pakistan military has been carrying out an offensive for over a year. in news from bangladesh, a blogger who expressed secular views has been hacked to death in the capital city dhaka. niloy neel is the fourth secularist blogger to be killed this year, allegedly by suspected islamist militants. no one has been charged in any of the four attacks. and jon stewart bid farewell to "the daily show" on comedy central thursday night after 16 years. the satirical news show transformed the media landscape, revealing and reveling in the hypocrisies of politicians and the media bedfellows. thursday night, stewart said goodbye to his viewers with a warning not to believe misinformation. >> i say to you, the best defense against bull's vigilance. if you smell something, say something. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!

democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting from toronto, canada, the site of the annual convention of the largest group of psychologists in the world the american psychological , association. it the first meeting of the apa since the release of a stunning report confirming the american psychological association leadership actively colluded with the pentagon and the cia, manipulating the organization's policies, meetings and members in order to endorse the torture program. for the past decade, a group of dissident psychologists have protested the use of psychologists to conduct interrogations at cia black sites and guantanamo. for years they were ignored and ridiculed. but that changed with the recent release of the "the hoffman report," a 542-page independent review commissioned by the apa's board of directors. the study undermined the apa's repeated denials that some of

its 130,000 members were complicit in torture. following the release, four top apa officials resigned or announced early retirements or were forced out. today the apa's council of representatives are scheduled to vote on a resolution to bar psychologists from participating in interrogations. it is unclear the measure will pass. ahead of the vote, the coalition for an ethical psychology hosted a town hall meeting here in toronto last night. speakers included the new york-based psychologist steven reisner, a leading critic of the apa's policies and founder of the coalition for an ethical psychology. >> right now there are psychologists at once on a moped a, and they're not -- guantanamo bay, and they're not only doing therapy. psychologists are involved in the force-feeding of detainees who are on hunger strikes. the force-feeding of detainees who are on a voluntary hunger

strikes is a violation of international law. nobody has called out those psychologists or any of the other health professionals to say, you are in violation of international law, you are participating in causing or perpetuating harm. so we have to make sure that apa goes from leading us into the dark side, leaving us into the torture room, leading us into the abuse of psychology for abuse, we have to turn apa to leading the way out. out of the interrogation room. out of the violation of international human rights. psychologists have got to be the leaders now in transforming the role of health professionals away from standing by or

perpetuating human rights fire relations into holding a standard that says no, we will not be present at places where this happens. if we are, we will protest it and leave. it has to be a clear policy which we have written. scott churchill, jeanmarie arrigo, with my help, have written a very conference of policy -- comprehensive policy. it prohibits psychologists from being present at sites that violate international law, from participating in national security interrogations, from overseeing national security detention sites when they exist to promote intelligence gathering or interrogations. this is a good policy. but tomorrow, the american psychological association council of representatives asked

to vote on this policy. and i can tell you, it's passage is by no means assured. amy: that is steven reisner founding member of the coalition for an ethical psychology speaking last night at a town hall meeting here in toronto. the a mac and psychological association is holding its annual convention here. -- the american psychological association is holding its annual image and here. about 6:00 this money, i spoke with the surprise winner james risen who is come to cover this meeting as well. he is extensively reported on the apa's ties to the cia and pentagon's torture program and he is covering the meeting that is taking place today. i asked him to talk about the significance of the apa meeting and today's vote that is happening as we broadcast by the apa's council of representatives on barring psychologists from

participating in cia and military interrogations. >> this is a very important meeting for the apa unforced -- and for the psychological profession. where they are going to vote today -- or at least they are expected to vote today -- on whether to allow -- whether to prohibit psychologists on ethical grounds from remaining involved in any national security interrogations, including those that are now being conducted were under the obama administration, non-course of interrogations. so it is a very sharp break from their past practices and it is in response to an investigation that found collusion between psychologists in the bush administration on interrogations.

amy: it is not care how this vote will go. talk about the factions within the american psychological association. some have been forced out and some have resigned. but still, it is not clear which direction the vote will go. >> right. there are some people who have opposed the proposed ban. i think are some groups within the psychological profession who are more involved with government either military or other agencies -- amy: like division 19? >> right. and some of those people believe that this goes too far that it goes beyond just a break with the reported collusion in the bush administration, and now they think this is kind of impeding on their turf of

involvement with the military. and so it will be interesting to see how far that debate goes, whether there are enough people who support this ban versus those who believe it goes too far. amy: you have written extensively about how u.s. psychologists involved in these interrogation programs shielded the torture program. explain. >> well, the hoffman report which came out about a month ago, i guess now, basically described the ways in which very subtle and nuanced ways that both individual prominent psychologists and staff and officials from the american psychological association worked kind of behind the scenes over the years to make sure that even as the apa said they were opposed to torture that they

created policies that made sure that psychologists could stay involved with the bush your interrogation programs by the cia and the undergone. so it is a really interesting report that kind of detail the very subtle way -- back room ways the people involved would maneuver to kind of, or one point, -- at the same time they're saying they're opposed to abusive tactics and interrogation, was to abusive making sure they did not do anything to block psychologists from being involved. so i thought the hoffman report really capture the subtleties and nuances of how that happened really well. amy: what else was most stunning to about this report? it actually was commissioned by the american psychological association. >> yeah, to me, what was

interesting was that the apa board entered into this report, they hired david hoffman, the chicago lawyer, to do this report, at the time they were saying -- you know there were these accusations out there, but we don't believe them, so we're going to have -- we are going to get a report. and i don't think the board when they hired hoffman expected to get such a scathing report because i have talked to members of the board since then, and they of said they were shocked by the findings of the hoffman report. and i think that is what is really driving this vote today is how shocked the leadership of the apa is by the findings and how they now kind of have many of many senior members of the apa i think have been issuing me

a call to -- mea culpas, saying the ones they've ignored for many years were right and now we have to recognize that. amy: a lot of this came from your book in revealing e-mails that you got a hold of. explain what you found, james risen. >> it was interesting, my book "pay any price" came out last year. i had gotten the e-mails of a behavioral scientist who was a very interesting character who died in 2008. he was a researcher at the rand corporation in santa monica and then later at a defense contractor. before he died, he reached out to human rights organization and a human rights investigator nathaniel raymond of physicians

for human rights. he seemed, from talking to nathaniel, he and some other people, it seemed like he wanted to talk about what the cia was doing in terms of interrogations. it was never clear exactly what his role was to either nathaniel or anyone else, but he clearly knew things. so after he died, i was able to gain access to his e-mail archive going back many years. and it didn't show he had any kind of smoking gun with revelation about the bush and administration or the cia interrogation program, but what it showed was he had connections with all caps of people in washington especially the intersection between the intelligence community and the

psychological profession. in particular, there were a lot of e-mails in which he was copied between people at the cia and the american psychological association and the defense department and others, and it all showed these kind of -- it revealed there had been some effort behind the scenes to kind of shape the nature of the apa's policy on interrogation after abu ghraib in the scandal broke -- and the scandal broke. it was a cooperation or coordination on their policy efforts in 05 to deal with interrogation programs or policy in which cia, pentagon, and others were taking roles and how

that was taking shape. amy: you have written and one of your latest reports in "the new york times" about the obama administration officials saying that in interviews that psychologist still play roles in the national security interrogations in terrorism cases. >> yeah, the main interrogation program for high valued terrorism targets is to i guess they call it the high-value detainee interrogation program which is led by the fbi, but it also has people from the defense department and the cia. that group actually deploys out when they capture somebody overseas or they are involved sometimes when someone or high-value person is arrested here. and it is outside the normal, you know, kind of legal process in some cases or domestic criminal investigation, it can

be outside that, and so that is considered a national security interrogation program. there is also psychologists at guantánamo and they still play roles in terms of what i was told was at guantánamo, if a detainee wants to talk to someone, psychologist would be involved. so they are still involved in various ways in the interrogation programs, so it will be interesting if this passes and if the new ethics guidelines prohibits their involvement, how the apa is going to deal with the obama administration -- i think will be a really interesting issue. will there be some effort by the obama administration to deal -- to address this issue or not? so i don't know. amy: finally, this is the first

american psychological association meeting, the largest association of psychologists in the world, that won't have a certain group of leaders at its helm. they have been forced out, like the head of the ethics division stephen binky. can you talk about these high level removals, resignations, firings? >> i think there are four top officials from the apa have left either through retirement or resignation or being forced out including the chief executive and one of his deputies and as you said, benke, the ethics director. so it is a really interesting to see today or this weekend, you know how the membership response to that. there are been some critics who say the move seven gone foreign assets. amy: there's a call for the

current president to be ousted to leave. >> yes. it will be interesting to see if any of that takes place -- six shape here. it will be interesting because i'm not sure how far -- where the mainstream or the majority of the members are in terms of whether they are now on the side of the critics or whether they think this has gone far enough. amy: pulitzer prize-winning new york times reporter james risen author of "pay new price." -- "pay any price." i interviewed him ahead of the american psychological association's vote on barring psychologists from participating in national security interrogations. the vote is expected to take place sometime today. this is democracy now!

democracynow.org, the war and peace report. we are going to go back to the dissident psychologists speaking out against torture. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: in 2009, he wrote a song a day. this is from the torture memos of the bush administration. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting from toronto, canada, the site of the convention of the largest group of psychologists in the world, the american psychological association. the group's council of representatives scheduled to vote today on a resolution to bar psychologists from participating in national security interrogations. at of the vote psychologists for social responsibility hosted a town hall meeting as an anders presbyterian church here in toronto last night.

these are some of the voices from the gathering. we begin with whitney brown of physicians for human rights. >> there needs to be really strict rule scooting psychologists as other health associations have done from participating in interrogations. it is quite simple. a quite -- it simply does not work when one person is trying to hurt another. that is why doctors do not engage in monitor to keep torture victims alive, why they do not engage in helping with executions. when the underlying act is about harm to another harm reduction models simply do not work. it is critically important that no one in the health profession engage in that. the second thing the american psychological association really needs to do is, i think, in particular, revise it ethical standards to be the highest possible standards. the weakening of the standards was utterly unconscionable and

the time now is to say that the american psychological association needs to lead and what the standards should be, to be the absolute strongest and the best. i want to talk about why it matters for people who have not been particularly engaged. and the healing profession, we can never be silent witnesses to human rights violations and abuses of other people. i work for an organization that is both about people in the health professions and about human rights. in human rights is ultimately about the inherent dignity and equality of everyone. it is not about torture. it is not about corruption. it is not about self grandizment. which brings into the third point, justice for the victims. we have mentioned abu ghraib and

the black sites run by the cia, guantánamo, and of course there is bagram air force base were so much of this torture happen. in one time obey alone, -- and guantánamo bay alone, 780 men and boys, children in their early teens, have gone through guantanamo bay. and everyone one of them including those who have been cleared for release and released, have been denied any access to justice for what happened to them. to be absolutely clear, quantum on a meadow they is -- guantanamo bay is a rights free zone. in the interrogations that happened there are unlawful because the entire system of detention in guantánamo they is unlawful. in human rights, it is absolutely clear that torture is just completely prohibited along with cruel and inhuman derating treatment of punishment, but there is an imperative of all states to investigate and prosecute those

responsible for torture. that is how strong the prohibition is. and yet we have this link which about moving forward, recognizing the circumstances in which this happened -- people being patriots, the defense is there engaging in torture. what that sends is a message of, yes, we know it is unlawful. yes, we know it is absolutely prohibited, but ,wink wink, when you need to come he can get away with it. in the next time it has to happen, you will get away with it again. that is not united states that i want to live in, not a world i want to live in. i want a world in which people's dignity and equality is what is valued and those who abuse their power use their power to harm people that they are held accountable. it is the only way we will create a truly just world. thank you. [applause] >> you all know about why -- the

writings and seen his videos and he even has a political cartoon -- i'm hoping he will do more of that. white idols and. >> 200 years ago, mary shelley wrote a novel about a young or her who pursues a reckless path of science unmarked from values and ambition, unrestrained by conscience. dr. frankenstein brings to life a hideous monster made of body parts, collected from slaughterhouses, dissecting rooms, and graveyards. and it does not end well. in certain ways and not alone over a decade ago, the leaders of the american psychological association also unleashed a monster. for much of the same reason.

the seemingly unbridled pursuit of greater power, influence, and prestige. and as we know, this, too, has not turned out well at all. the damage was first apparent in the anguished cries from the dark cells a cia black sites in guantanamo bay. it has radiated from their eating away at our once proud profession. human rights and psychologies do no harm ethics go hand-in-hand but both are fragile and only one can protect the other. after 9/11, the apa may not have been able to single-handedly stop the government's bulrush toward brutality, but it didn't have to feed the beast. in painful and indisputable

detail, the long-awaited hoffman report has carefully documented the apa's collusion with the department of defense in support of operations profoundly at odds with our professions respect for human dignity. yet in recent days, and perhaps not surprisingly, we witnessed a concerted effort by some to discredit the hoffman report and to thereby resurrect the wobbling reputations of the creditors it has named. -- colluders it has named. the defense is a familiar one. we must not forget the context of the times, they say. well, if those seeking to escape accountability want us to recall the context, let's do just that. for example, picture the white house rose garden almost a

decade ago. that morning, reporter asked a question about torture in light of the supreme court's decision. and this was president bush's response -- "the supreme courts said we must conduct ourselves under the common article three of the geneva convention, and that common article says that, you know, there will be no outrages upon human dignity. it's like it is very vague. what does that mean, outrages upon human dignity? that is a statement that is wide open to interpretation." that is an example of the context, plain and simple, which apa leaders locked arms with the pentagon and cia and embraced our government's abusive interrogation program. according to reliable account

years ago, peace activist daniel berrigan gave the world's shortest commencement speech. only seven words. it was to a graduating class in new york city. what he said was this, "no released and and stand there." i feel very faithful to everyone who is helped us reach this crucial moment of truth, this fork in the road together. i look forward to working together to overcome the obstacles and challenges that undoubtedly still lie ahead. as we do so, let us continue to know where to stand and stand there. thank you. [applause] >> i live in cambridge, massachusetts. i'm a clinical psychologist. i have taught, trained supervised thousands of psychology students.

i personally would like psychologist completely out of the military. i would like us to end recruiting. [applause] i find it very disturbing a high percentage of the recruiters at apa conventions are military and the security agencies. i have also been very interested with some of my colleagues over the inconsistencies within the apa regarding psychologists working in military settings and military psychologist. to be clear, 7% of psychologists are paid completely by the department of defense and 5% by the veterans a administration. the apa recently has been very active in encouraging students to become military psychologists , advocating for huge signing bonuses, and a hint turn -- thye intership bonuses are astounding. at the same time, some of my colleagues and i have done

studies and what was learned that clinical psychology doctoral students are not by a large being taught anything about ethics in military settings, and they're also not being taught how to deal with conflict between -- what to do if you're given an order to do something that is unethical, and not being taught anything about international treaties and how those might guide psychologists provide guidance if they were given in order that was unethical. i would save rate quickly that if you are -- i would say very quickly that if you are military psychologist, your allegiances are often split and just to keep perspective on size and budget american psychological association budget for 2014 was $112 million. the department of defense budget was over $500 billion and that

is without special allocations. it is an order of magnitude at about one to 4000. when we think about doing more leadership, which is what i understand people here doing, it is a big job. it really requires a lot of inspiration. thank you. [applause] >> i am an attorney, human rights lawyer teach and write for harvard law school. this movement and this moment is pivotal not only for psychology but for the entire movement of accountability against torture and for justice. and i think for this country. as i was saying, i hitched my wagon to you because i saw your visionaries and i thought you were effective, and i'm glad to know i was right. but also because as a student of a scholar of transitional

justice and torture accountability and post torture moments, i saw that what you are doing made sense. i am from our gina -- argentina originally and the granddaughter of holocaust survivors. torture is something i learned as a was growing up. a key component to preventing torture and ending torture just made sense. i came here today because i was hoping to see history being made. when i tell my fellow advocates, other attorneys, other human rights lawyers what is on the table on the vote tomorrow and the enormous achievements you all have been able to achieve people are starstruck. and i think you should know you have -- that all eyes are on you and a lot of hope was with you. i hope you will do that. they will pass the proposal. also to the question a gentleman earlier said, why bother? why bother with the apa?

there's a lot of talk about the profession, which i think makes sense, but i would save your not doing it for the profession, do for the people who were tortured. there are men who have long been released whose lives are still devastated, men who cannot seek mental help because of the sense of betrayal of psychologists and their role. and that is wreaking havoc on them and their family. i would say do it for them. stay in the fight for them and are families. and also, really, as you move forward with this fight, think about what else we all can do to help repair the harm that goes beyond reforming these codes and beyond the policies and also how we can bring their stories their presence. >> my name is ben davis. i'm a law professor in toledo,

ohio. i was teaching a class on 9/11 down and forward texas, which is where the american airlines hub is. i had students who have families on planes pilots who ran out of class. there was -- it was a dispute resolution class. they were troubled worried obviously, about what happened to the family members. i had the choice as a professor to cancel the class, but i got this idea in my head to tell the students ok, in the book we talk about how do you negotiate with middle eastern terrorists and now you have to go talk to george bush and advise him on what he should do. we're all under the emotion of 9/11 here. various people wanted to beat people up and all that stuff but i was always struck i this older student who was a navy

veteran who said, the person we have to do is figure out what our values are, and in we can decide on the kind of strategy that we want to take. the thing that i think that is been very unfortunate with all this since that day was that that first step of actually looking at what are our american values, was not taken in the panic that these people who are running the government had in the dark side always shows its face quickly than. they went down that path. amy: that is ben davis and others speaking at a town hall meeting here in toronto, canada last night, hosted by psychologists first for social response does for social response ability. the council of representatives scheduled to vote on a resolution to bar psychologists from participating in national security interrogations in the discussion is just commenced as we broadcast this program. you can get an update at democracynow.org through the

day. when we come back, the republican presidential debate. stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.

10 leading republican presidential candidates faced off in the first debate of the 2016 presidential election thursday night. fox news invited 10 candidates to take part. jeb bush, scott walker, marco rubio, ted cruz, rand paul, ben carson, mike huckabee, chris christie, john kasich, and donald trump. the head of fox news had so much say in who participated in the primetime event. seven other republican presidential candidates who do not make the cut dissipated in a debate earlier in the evening. fox news says it calculated the list by averaging five national polls, process which came under fire from polling agencies earlier this week. these are highlights from the debate. we begin with one of the moderators, megan kelly of fox news. >> mr. trump, one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don't use a politician's filter. however, that is not without its downsides, particular when it comes to women. you called when you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and

disgusting animals. your twitter account -- >> only rosie o'donnell. >>, no, it wasn't. what's>> thank you. >> for the record, it was well beyond rosie o'donnell. your twitter account has several disparaging comment about women's looks. you once told a contestant it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. does that sound you like the temperament of a man should elect as president and how we answer the charge from hillary clinton who is likely to be the democratic nominee that you are part of the war on women? >> i think the big problem this country has is being politically correct. [applause] i have been challenged as so many people and i don't frankly

have time for total political correctness and to be honest with you, this country doesn't have time either. this country is in big trouble. we don't win any more. released to china, mexico, both in trade and the border. released to everyone. and frankly, what i say and oftentimes it is fun, it is getting, we have a good time, what i say is what i say. honestly, if you don't like it, i'm sorry lost up i've been very nice to come although, i could probably maybe not be based on the way you treated me. but i wouldn't do that. [applause] >> for days on end of this campaign, he struggled to answer question about whether knowing what we know now -- >> i remember, megyn. >> i do, too. isis is thriving. she finally said no. to the families of those who died in that war who say they liberated a country and opposed

a ruthless dictator, how do you look in them now and say your brothers war was a mistake? >> knowing what we know now, with faulty intelligence and not having security be the first priority when we invaded, it was a mistake. i would not have gone in. however, for the people that did lose their lives and the families that suffer because of it i know this full well because as governor of the state of florida, i called every one of them -- everyone of them that i could find, to tell them i was praying for them, i cared about them, and it was really hard to do. every one of them said their child did not die in vain or their wife or husband did not die in vain. why was difficult to do, it was based on that. here's the lesson we should take from this, which relates to this full subject. barack obama became president and he abandoned iraq. he left. when he left, al qaeda was done for, isis was created because of the void we left. that avoid exist as a caliphate the size of indiana. >> governor christie you said

senator paul's opposition to the nsa's collection of phone records has made the united states weaker and more vulnerable. even going so far to say he should be called before congress to answer for it if we should be hit by another terrorist attack. do you really believe you can assign blame the senator paul just for opposing the bulk collection of people's phone records in the event of a terrorist attack? >> yes, i do. and i will tell you why, because i'm now the person on the state to is actually filed applications under the patriot act, who have gone before the federal -- the foreign intelligence service court, who has prosecuted and investigated and jailed terrorists in this country after september 11. and i will make nor apologies ever for protecting the lives and the safety of the american people. we have to give more tools to our folks to do that, not fewer. and trust those people and oversee them to do it the right way. as president, that is exactly what i will do.

>> may i respond? >> go ahead, sir. >> i want to collect more records from terrorists, but less records from innocent americans. [applause] the fourth amendment is what we fought the revolution over. john adams said it was the spark that led to our war for independence, and i'm proud of standing for the bill of rights and i will continue to stand for the bill of rights. >> megyn, you know, that is a completely ridiculous answer. "i want to collect more records from trorists, but less records from other people." how are you supposed to know? >> use the fourth the mamet. get a warrant. get a judge to sign a warrant. >> listen, senator, when you're sending a subcommittee blowing hot air about this, you can say things like that. when you're responsible for protecting the lives of the american people, then what you need to do is make sure that --

>> here's the problem, governor. he fundamentally misunderstand the bill of rights. every time you did a case, you got a warrant from a judge. i'm talking about searches without warrants, and is permanently of all americans records, and that is what i fought to end. i don't trust president obama with our records. i know you gave him a big hug. if you want to do it again, go right ahead. >> go ahead, governor. >> senator paul thomas the hugs i remember are the ones i gave to the families who lost the people on september 11, those are the hugs i remember and those had nothing to do with politics unlike what you're doing by cutting speeches on the floor of the senate then putting them on the internet than half an hour to raise money for your campaign and while still putting our country at risk. >> governor

walker come you have consistently said you want to make abortion illegal, even in cases of rape, and says, or to save the life of the mother. you resell he signed a law which says it has an exception for the mother's life, be your on record as having objective. would you really let a mother die rather than have an abortion? and with 83% of the american public in favor of a life exception, are you two out of the mainstream on this issue to win a general election? >> i am pro-life and of always been pro-life and i have a position that is consistent with many americans out there in that i believe that is an unborn child that is in need of protection. i've said many a time that that unborn child can be protected and are many other alternatives that will also protect the life of the mother. that has been insistently proven. unlike hillary clinton was a radical position in terms of support for planned parenthood, i defunded planned parenthood more than four years ago, long before any of these videos came out. i have a position in line with everyday america 08/07/15 08/07/15

senator rubio, you favor a race and insist -- incest exception. one said it is preposterous and discriminate against an entire class of human beings. if you believe life begins at conception, as you say you do, how do you justify ending a life just because it begins violently through no fault of the baby. >> i'm not sure that is a correct assessment of my record. i would add -- >> you don't favor a rape and incest exception? >> i've advocated we pass a law that every stage of life is worthy at protection. it already exists, it's called the constitution of the united states. >> senator paul, would you terror of the deal on the day one? >> i will vote against the iranian deal. i don't think the president negotiated from a position of strength, but i don't discount negotiations. >> governor huckabee? >> ronald reagan said

[indiscernible] president obama is trust but vilified. he trusts our enemies and vilifies everyone who disagrees with it. the reason we disagree with him has nothing to do with party. it has to do with incredibly dangerous place that this world is going to be as a result of a deal in which we got nothing. we did not even get four hostages out. we got nothing. iran gets everything they want. we said we would have anywhere, anytime negotiations inspections, we gave that up. we said we would make sure they did not have any new capacity, we gave that up. the president can't tell us what we got. i will play with the world god the world has a burgeoning nuclear power that did not come as a soviets, so we might defend ourselves in a war, but the array needs of said, we will wipe israel off the face of the map and we will bring death to

america. when someone points a gun at your head and loads it, by god you ought to take them seriously. quite how would you destroy isis in 90 days? >> we need a commander-in-chief that speaks the truth. we will not defeat radical islamic terrorism, so long as we have a president unwilling to utter the words "radical islamic terrorism." >> you don't see it as an ideological problem in addition to a military one? [applause] >> megyn, of course it is an ideological problem, that is one reason why i introduced the expatriate terrorist act in the senate as head opinion reconciles to the middle east and joins i says, that he or she forfeits their citizenship so they don't use a passport to come back and wave -- wage jihad on american. let me contrast president obama at a prayer breakfast essentially acted as an

apologist. he said, gosh, the crusade, and inquisitions, we need a president that shows the courage that egypt's president al-sisi did, when he called out the radical islamic terrorists who are threatening the world. >> governor huckabee the culture of the mecca military is changing. women are moving in to combat roles, don't ask don't tell has obviously been dropped, and now defense secretary ashton carter is redirected the military to prepare for a moment when it is welcoming transgender persons to serve openly. as commander in how would you handle that? >> the military is not a social experiment. the purpose of the military is kill people and break things. it is not to transform the culture but trying out some ideas that some people think would make us a different country and more diverse. the purpose is to protect america. i'm not sure how paying transgender surgery or soldiers sailors, airmen, marines, our country safer.

mr. trump, you say the mexican government, the mexican government is sending criminals rapists, drug dealers come across the border. abner bush has called those remarks "extraordinarily ugly." i would like you, you're right next to him, talk to him directly and say how you respond to that. >> so if it weren't for me, you would not even be talking about illegal immigration, chris. you would not even be talking about it. this was not a subject that was on anybody's mind until i brought it up at my announcement. and i said, mexico is sending. except, reporters, because they are generally a dishonest lot in the world of politics, they do not cover my statement the way i said it. the fact is, since then, many killings, murders, crime drugs

pouring across the border, or money going out and the drugs coming in, and i said, we need to build a wall. and it has to be built quickly. and i don't mind having a big beautiful door in that wall so people can come into this country legally but we need jeb to build a wall. we need to keep illegals out. >> governor huckabee, on facebook, this question was asked -- will you abolish or take away the powers and cut the size of the epa, iris, department of education? broadly, the size of government is a big concern for facebook users, facebook persons as well as conservatives but year after year, decade after decade, there are promises from republicans to shrink government. here after year, decade after decade it doesn't happen. in fact, it gets bigger, even on

republican politicians. the question is, is the government simply too big for any one person even a republican, to shrink? >> it's not too big to shrink, but the problem is, we have a wall street to washington axis of power that is controlling the political climate. the donor class beads the political class who does the dance that the donor class once. and the result is, that our government keeps getting bigger. every person on the stage was been a governor will tell you the biggest fight they had was not the other party may was leaving the legislature, it was the federal government who continually put mandates on the stage that we had to suck up and pay for. and the fact is, are a lot of things happening at the federal level that are absolutely beyond the jurisdiction of the constitution. this is power that should be shifted back to the states, whether it is the epa -- there is no role at the federal level the department of education, and i'm still one who says that we

can get rid of the internal revenue service if we would pass the fair tax, which is a tax on consumption rather than a tax on people's income and move power back where the founders believed it should have been all along. amy: that was former arkansas governor mike huckabee a last chance republican presidential debate on fox news. and that does it for today's show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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