09/03/15 09/03/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! cork last night the attorney general issued an order of ,rrest for general perez molina the president, and a few hours later, perez molina resigned just before midnight. it is quite possible now that is a private citizen, perez molina will be arrested sometime after dawn. amy: after massive public uprising the president of , guatemala resigns over a growing corruption scandal. could he soon face charges for mass murder as well? we will go to guatemala city for the latest.

then to kentucky where a county clerk is refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. >> you're supposed to issue marriage licenses. the supreme court denied your stay. >> we are not issuing marriage licenses today. >> why are you not? >> because i'm not. >> under his authority? >> under god's authority. in the code that is david moore trying to get a marriage license from kim davis. he will join us from kentucky along with the head of the fairness campaign. kentucky's statewide lgbt advocacy group. then canadian police file charges against a syrian intelligence officer accused of torturing maher arar who was kidnapped by u.s. authority is at jfk airport in 2002 and sent to syria where he was tortured.

cell, underground ,asically about three feet wide six feet high, and about seven feet the. it was a filthy place. it was dark. it basically that is why i always refer to it as a grave like cell because it reminds you of a grave. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. after a massive public uprising, guatemalan president otto perez molina has resigned following the attorney general's arrest one for him. this follows congruous -- commerce surprising strip of immunity from immunity. prosecutors said perez molina will be charged with illicit

association, taking bribes and customs fraud. he is also being investigated for money laundering. we will go to guatemala city to speak with allan nairn after headlines. the obama administration has secured enough votes to ensure the future of the nuclear deal with iran. on wednesday, maryland senator barbara mikulski became the 34th senator to support the agreement. that means even if opponents in congress pass a resolution to undermine the nuclear deal, obama has enough votes to sustain his veto and uphold the iran agreement. the victory comes nearly two months after iran, the united states, and five other world powers reach the historic deal to curb iran's nuclear activities. in maryland, a judge has ruled six baltimore police officers will face separate trials for the arrest and death of african-american resident freddie gray. at a hearing wednesday, judge barry williams refused defense attempts to dismiss the charges and remove prosecutor marilyn mosby from the case.

freddie gray died in april after being arrested and transported without a seat belt in a police van. his family said his spine was 80% severed at the neck. police said they arrested him for making eye contact with them, then running away. another hearing in the case is set for next week to consider a motion to move the officers' trials out of baltimore. attorney j. wyndal gordon, who observed the proceedings, said the case should be heard in the city. >> i think the ladies and gentlemen of baltimore city, the citizens of baltimore city are intelligent enough, not even intelligent enough them are intelligent, thoughtful, they are very attentive when it comes to cases such as this and they can handle this case, provide each and every defendant a fair trial. amy: peaceful protests against freddie gray's death erupted in baltimore wednesday as the hearing was underway. community activist and hip-hop artist kwame rose was arrested. video footage shows him on the ground, screaming that he has

been hit by a car and is hurt, as police pull his arms back and arrest him. >> i'm hurt. i'm hurt. i'm hurt. amy: in somalia, officials say at least 50 african union soldiers have been killed after al-shabab attacked a base in southern somalia on tuesday. al-shabab says it killed 70 soldiers in the attack. in yemen, at least 28 people have died after two suicide bombs exploded at a mosque in the capital sanaa on wednesday. the first bombing struck inside the mosque during prayers. the second blast came from a suicide car bomb that detonated about 20 minutes later as people were helping victims of the first attack. members of the self-proclaimed islamic state claimed responsibility for the attack on social media. in latest from the global

migration crisis, the photos of the lifeless body of a syrian boy who washed up on a turkish beach after his boat sank in the mediterranean have gone viral. three-year-old aylan kurdi, his five-year-old brother galip and their mother, rehan, drowned tuesday as the family attempted to reach greece in an eventual bid to join relatives in canada. their asylum application had been denied in canada. the boy's aunt, teema kurdim, who is a hairdresser in vancouver, told the national post -- "i was trying to sponsor them, and i have my friends and my neighbors who helped me with the bank deposits, but we couldn't get them out, and that is why they went in the boat." canada has come under intense criticism for not accepting more syrians fleeing the syrian civil war. in january, immigration minister chris alexander pledged canada would resettle 10,000 syrians over three years. but new government figures show that, as of late july, canada had only welcomed 1002 syrians.

in more news on migration malaysian officials say at least , 13 people have drowned after a boat departing from indonesia capsized in the strait between the two countries. in news from the campaign trail, republican presidential candidate donald trump has criticized contender jeb bush saying that the candidate should be "speaking english while in the united states." trump's comments come after bush held a news conference in miami on tuesday, in which he spoke in both english and spanish and criticized trump saying he is not a conservative. canada has charged syrian colonel george salloum with allegedly torturing canadian engineer maher arar. in 2002, arar was rendered by the united states to an overseas detention center in his native syria where he was tortured and interrogated in a tiny underground cell for nearly a year. this is the first ever criminal charge of torture brought by canada against a foreign government official for acts

committed abroad. we'll have more on the case later in the broadcast. we will speak with the wife of maher arar. in kentucky the county clerk who , has defied the supreme court and refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples is set to appear before a federal judge today to make her case for why she shouldn't be held in contempt of court. rowan county clerk kim davis stopped issuing all marriage licenses rather than comply with the supreme court ruling in june that legalized same-sex marriage nationwide. in a filing wednesday, attorneys for davis argued a court order requiring her to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples "irreparably and irreversibly violates her conscience." we'll have more on the case later in the broadcast. we will go to louisville and lexington, kentucky. and a federal judge in texas has issued an extraordinary order to withdraw the execution date for a man set to die by lethal injection later this month. district judge david mendoza

ruled tuesday that perry williams should not face death on september 29 without a lawyer to handle his appeals. williams has been without a lawyer since early february. democracy now! correspondent renée feltz spoke to williams wednesday during an interview on death row. >> tonight i should have legal representation, no matter what, but that is not how it is. we have been writing letters asking people. it is kind of hard being this late in the stage. i feel like it is an injustice not to have an attorney when my life is on the line. amy: williams was sentenced to the death penalty in 2002 for the murder and robbery of a medical student in houston. williams says his gun went off by accident, and that his court-appointed lawyer failed to raise evidence that might have spared him a death sentence. advocates say several more men on death row in texas are also facing execution without lawyers. and those are some of the

headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i am amy goodman with nermeen s haikh. nermeen: welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. nermeen: welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. guatemalan president otto perez molina has resigned just hours after a judge approved the attorney general's arrest warrant for him. this follows congregants -- congress is surprising unanimous decision to strip him of immunity from prosecution, vowing to public pressure. prosecutors said perez molina will be charged with illicit association, taking bribes, and customs fraud. attorney general said perez molina was also being investigated for money laundering, which could lead to the freezing of his assets. amy: perez molina's former vice president and other government officials are facing similar charges. just before the show, democracy now! reached journalist allan nairn in guatemala city.

>> last night the attorney general issued an order of arrest for general perez molina, the president, and a few hours later, perez molina resigned just before midnight. it is quite possible now that as a private citizen, perez molina will be arrested sometime after dawn. huge victory for the popular uprising in guatemala. perez molina, just a few weeks ago, seemed completely invulnerable. but now he may be going to prison and he will be facing trial on corruption charges. but this is just the beginning of the challenges for the popular movement because stepping in to replace perez molina will be the vice president. who is a key figure

member of the high court of guatemala, an old the genocide verdict against general ríos montt. you did that at the demand of the oligarchs of guatemala after the criminal court issued a guilty genocide verdict against ríos montt and sentenced him to 80 years, the oligarchs went on tv, had a press conference, and amended, demanded and the name of their money, that the court annulled this verdict. and mauldin otto, who was a leader of the high constitutional court of guatemala, complied. and he is now the vice president. he is now the man who will be stepping in to replace perez molina. in fact, he began his political career with the mon, political party. the mln was a partner of the cia

in the 1954 invasion of guatemala. it overthrew the democratically elected government, put the army in power and began the reign of terror that is still reverberating today. as aln described itself party organized violence, and they ran their own semi public death squad. so now this man, the vice president, is the acting president. he will have that position until january. this sunday, there is a presidential election in guatemala. candidates is dominated by people who were backed by the old army generals ,ho ran the massacres drugrunning syndicates, other organized crime, and the oligarchs. those being backed by those

forces for the wants are considered to have a chance to win because they are the ones with the money. they're the ones who have been dominating the media coverage and the advertising. and unless the election is postponed and many, many people, including leading academics, leading lawyers, and popular groups having calling for postponement so the elect oral law can be rewritten -- electoral law can be rewritten, to give a fair chance to actual real citizens who are not backed i drug dealers or killer toerals to get a chance contest for office, but unless that election is postponed, one of those -- one of the front people for those groups will be the newly elected president of guatemala. so if this movement is going to turn into one that wins real structural change, it is only

just beginning. and even with perez molina .imself, there is a big issue he is now going to go to trial for corruption, but that is really his minor crime. his main crime is mass murder. he was one of the implementers of the policy of slaughter in the highlands for which rios mont was convicted of genocide. i met him at the time that he was doing this and his soldiers described how they would go into villages and wiped out the civilians. but no charges have yet been brought against perez molina for those crimes. however, they could be because under guatemalan law, ordinary citizens can come forward and file criminal charges as long as those charges are accepted by the attorney general's office. if there is going to be a

serious legal process against perez molina for the mass ,illings, it should include what in guatalan law is called the intellectual authors and the collaborators. and those would include the u.s. sponsors. backinglina received from u.s. military and from u.s. intelligence when he later became head of guatemalan intelligence. so if there's a serious prosecution, he would have the option of calling u.s. officials, subpoenaing u.s. records and indicting u.s. officials for their role in the murders. and i would urge them to do that because the law should be enforced impartially.

and even though perez molina was the man on the ground directing the killers, he had bosses and sponsors, and the americans out of washington were perhaps the most important. amy: journalist allan nairn reporting from guatemala city. he is covered guatemala since the 1980's. you can follow him on twitter for the latest news on the resignation of the president of guatemala, otto perez molina. and we come back, we go to louisville and lexington, kentucky to cover the showdown, the county clerk kim davis, who refuses to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. we will talk to the man, david moore, who she refused to issue a marriage license to three times. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. in kentucky, the county clerk who testified the supreme court and refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples is set to appear before a federal judge in just a few hours to make her case for why she should not be held in contempt of court. rowan county clerk kim davis stopped issuing all marriage licenses rather than comply with is a bring court ruling in june that legalized same-sex marriage nationwide. on monday, the supreme court denied davis's appeal that the court grant her asylum for her conscience. the next day, same-sex couples

confronted davis at her office. david moore asked her why she was not issuing licenses. >> you're supposed to issue marriage licenses. the supreme court denied your stay. >> we're not issuing marriage licenses. >> why are you not issuing marriage licenses today? >> because i'm not. >> under whose authority? >> under god's authority. >> i don't think god has told you to do this. >> i have asked you all the leave. you're interrupting my business. >> you can call the police if you want us to leave. i pay your salary. i pay your salary. i pay you to discriminate against me right now. that's what i'm paying for. i'm paying for this memory with my partner that i love that i've been with for 17 years. what is the longest you been married to someone? >> i'm asking you to leave. >> were not leaving -- we're not leaving. call the police.

call the police. call the police! i will ask them to arrest you. >> do your job. >> everyone in this office should be ashamed of themselves. is this what you want to remember? is this what you want to remember, that you stood up for this? that your children have to look at you and realize you are a bigot and you discriminate against people? is that what you want? >> god's word -- >> god is not belong in the county court process. nermeen: that is david moore are agreeing with kim davis. attorneys for kim davis argued a court order requiring her to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples "irreparably and are reversibly violates her conscience." meanwhile, republican president of the kentucky state senate has come to kim davis's defense, asking a federal judge to withhold his order or her to issue same-sex marriage licenses so the state legislature can

pass a law exempt in her from having to do so. amy: national attention is focused on kim davis his own marital history. she is been married four times, including twice her current husband. she says she had a religious awakening about four years ago and her mother-in-law asked is a dying wish for davis to go to church. in a statement, davis said -- to talk more about kim davis, we're joined by three guests. david moore is a graphic designer from morehead, kentucky. he and his partner, david ermold, were denied a marriage license on three occasions by kim davis and staffers in her office. his voice is the one you just heard on the video we just played, arguing kim davis. -- goneeo has gone myra viral. more than 1.8 million hits. chris hartman is the director of the fairness campaign, kentucky's statewide lgbt

group based in louisville. there joining us from lexington, kentucky. we go to louisville to speak who attorney joe dunman represented several in kentucky marriage cases which were consolidated into the supreme court case that effectively made marriage equality the law of the land. david, let's begin with you and lexington. describe the interaction that you had with the county clerk kim davis. where were you? what are you asking for? what did she say to you? >> i was in the county clerk's office in morehead. we went in. press was everywhere. we saw the couple that went in before us who are part of the aclu case. they came out and we saw they were denied -- at first we thought they got it, but they turned around and said they were denied. we walked up to the counter. we stood there for maybe three

or four minutes talking to a deputy clerk. she said kim davis was in her office. we could see her blinds were drawn. she was not speaking to anyone. we pretty much demanded she come out and face the people. i think was only fair she come out and face the people that she was denying a license to. when she came out, we both felt inferior needed they were stood -- infuriated their still to get marriedht in the county we live in. i was infuriated. i cannot control myself. a refused to accept that will stop i just refused. justen: david moore, lisa kim davis has a lot of support for the position she is taking. support from home? well, that they the were protesters and supporters for both sides outside the courthouse. she had support i get from local church groups and a lot of

people that come outside from outside the committee. they came through -- to support her. the thing is, if she would issue marriage licenses today to everyone, those people that are coming out to say, we stand with kim davis, they would not be protesting. they would not be protesting people getting a license. she is basically sending a rallying signal that she is a victim. she is not a victim. she does not need any help because her rights have not been changed or taken in any way whatsoever. amy: david, i want to go to another video of you. this is the second time you and your partner attempted to get a marriage license after staffers in kim davis's office refused to issue you a license, they said she was not there that day. the two of you go down the hall to the office of the rowan .ounty judge

he was not yet in the office, but his aide called him and let you speak with them by phone. note, won't do it. he doesn't have the paperwork. no paperwork, doesn't have the software, he wants the judges to figure out, go to the court system. cannot force anyone in their office to do it. they can't force her to do it. he said there's one person willing to do it, but they can't do it without her authorization. no. nothing. so. people are cruel. people are cruel. and this is wrong. and that's how it is. that's how it is. and that's the bottom line. she is wrong and these people are cruel to do this to us.

ermold ands david david moore. i want to go to joe dunman, an attorney has worked on this case. you have spearheaded the case that really led to the supreme court decision for marriage equality in the united states. what is the law here? >> there are two different kinds of the law. the first is a federal constitution, which the supreme court has said requires states to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. then there's the state law, which requires clerks to issue the licenses. that is what kim davis is violating. she is saying she has a religious objection the following a kentucky statute, which is neutral and very simple and just says clerks must issue licenses. she doesn't really have a legal argument because the courts have never observed the public officials have religious -- can have a religious exception to

just doing their jobs. so we are making a very simple argument here that just says public officials must do their jobs. if there's a conflict with their beliefs, they need to resign or lobby the general assembly to change the law on the meantime, but they still have to follow the statute and issue the licenses. nermeen: joe dunman, there's a hearing on the case today. on what grounds, if at all, or to be possible for the judge to rule in kim davis's favor? >> i don't know. i don't think there are any grounds. we made a simple motion. we have an injunction in place that requires her to issue licenses. she is violating that by not doing so. we simply ask the court impose a financial penalty, which wilkinson device her to do her job -- which will incentivize her to do her job. her attorneys disagree. nermeen: and she could keep appealing every court order, is that right? >> each order that is considered

final, she can appeal. so far, she is shown quite an interest in doing so. ares important to note, we at the beginning of the litigation. we just have her preliminary injunction in place. we have not done any kind of discovery or look at any documents or done really much of anything other than file some briefs. so we're still in the early stages. even though the injunction is in place, it is being a plea old -- appealed to the sixth circuit. it is kind of a unique procedural place we're in. amy: one, the significance of kim davis and elected official stuff two, when she says that she is having her rights violated, trying to file her conscience. >> it is an important distinction because public officials don't operate as individuals. the government is not compelling them to do something as private citizens. it is asking them to do something as their employer.

the case law is very clear, the government is an employer can tell its employees what to do to a certain extent. and all the case law about the first amendment and how it operates for public officials is very clear. they have to do their jobs. if they don't, they have the option to resign. it is not mandatory they hold that office, it is voluntary. because it is voluntary, they can always choose to do something else. i'm sorry, your second question? sayinglking about her her rights are being violated, that this is against her religion. >> right. -- shew, she has done made a big effort in this case to portray herself as the victim re, but the victims are those ribbon denied marriage licenses to which they are entitled. she is trying to say she is being victimized, and has sued the governor as a third-party his letterclaiming

to all the clerks earlier in the year asking them to issue licenses somehow infringes her rights, except that letter doesn't compel her to do anything. and she is ignoring it anyway. she has complicated this procedurally in a way to make herself seem like a victim, when really, it is our clients were the ones entitled to marriage licenses and can't get them in their homework they deserve them. amy: she could easily say it is against my religion deserve any black person. >> that's the logical extension of her argument. a religiouser exemption, then we give all public officials that kind of exemption and then there are no rules. the 14th of may met stops meaning anything -- the 14th amendment stops meaning anything. you have to hope when you walk into the clerks office every day when you need a document that the clerk shares all of your beliefs, otherwise, they can turn you away. amy: how many of these cases are being brought around the country? you are the lawyer who

the case that went to the supreme court, that legalized marriage equality in this country. how much are we seeing this not only in kentucky, but in other states? >> i had a lot of help in that effort for marriage equality, i wasn't alone. but as far as the clerk fight, it is a little different -- i know in alabama they do it through probate judges and i believe it is 11 probate judges in alabama are saying they won't issue any marriage licenses, despite court orders to the contrary. i want to say there is a fight going on in texas, but i'm not really clear on it. our case -- and kentucky, there are at least three clerks refusing to issue any marriage licenses and kim davis is just one of them. but we have 120 counties and three of them are protesting, so percentagewise, we're doing pretty good. for the most part, the country is complying with the supreme court him as we should expect. nermeen: i would like to ask

chris hartman of the fairness campaign how representative kim davises of other counties in kentucky, you been lobbing for fairness laws for a long time across the state. could you say a little bit about that? >> right. kentucky really is a state of fairness, not of kim davis. she is not representative of the population. more than one quarter of kentucky residents now live in the city or county that has antidiscrimination protections for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals, including the city of morehead, where rowan county clerk kim davis works. morehead was the only city in kentucky to unanimously approve lgbt discrimination protections. now there are seven other cities and counties in our state that extend those protections and those numbers keep on increasing every year. kim davis is making a last gasp right now with her lawyers from

the liberty counsel who are imported into kentucky, the late reverend jerry follows lawyers -- falwell plus lawyers. group activelyr lobbying his freedom to marry. its national campaign director said the kim davis incident is "a very small temporary blip that will take care of itself." do you agree with that assessment? >> i do agree with that assessment. i think even by the end of today or tomorrow, marriage licenses are going to start coming out of round county. sooner rather than later, folks will be able to get married in every county in which they lived across the united states. this is a temporary roadblock. it is a small, but very vocal population that are simply fighting back and attending to make as much noise as they can because they know the vast majority of americans and

kentuckians support lgbt rights. amy: the other three clerks in kentucky who are saying no like kim davis? chris? .> jay-z davis, k schwartz amy: will their case take the exact same legal route? >> certain. if their cases brought against them, i think they probably are waiting to see what happens in kim davis's case. and i think the message will be clear and resounding. i don't believe the judge will tolerate any more delay of couples like david and his longtime partner coming getting them marriage licenses that they deserve. the supreme court has twice affirmed it is their constitutional right to a obtain. amy: david moore, as we watched you attempt to get a marriage again, tell usnd

why you want to get married, why this is important to you and what you plan to do now. >> we have been together for 17 years, my partner and i, and we kind of already feel like we are married. we went through all the commitment and the of's and downs that you have in a marriage -- the ups and downs that you have in a marriage. this is just the final legal, you know, symbol of our love for each other and our commitment. that everybody else is able to share and we should be able to share in that, too. i think we have demonstrated just by being together for this long that we deserve that same right -- anyone deserves that right. what we planned to do is, hopefully, we will be able to get a license soon and round county. it is our home, where we live and work, and that is what i want to see happen. i am looking forward to that and getting that license, going on a trip, honeymoon, and relaxing and not having to think about the media and kim davis for a while. amy: we want to thank you all

for being with us, david moore and chris hartman speaking to us from lexington. chris hartman is the director of fairness campaign. and joe dunman from louisville. will a torture he brought to justice? that is what canadian citizen maher arar is asking. it was maher arar who was tortured, sent by the united states to syria in 2002 were he was self promised a year. we will speak with his wife in ottawa. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. in a move to hold government officials accountable for torture, canada has charged george salloum with allegedly torturing maher arar. in 2002, he was kidnapped by u.s. authorities during a layover and check airport and then sent to his native syria where he was tortured and interrogated in a tiny underground cell for nearly a year. he was held for nearly a year. this is the first ever criminal charge of torture brought by canada against a foreign government official for acts committed abroad.

after the news was announced, maher arar's wife, monia mazigh, read a statement from her husband who is not spoken to the press in two years. the endis by no means of the road. it is my hope that george salloum will be found alive, arrested, and extradited to canada to face canadian justice. the laying of this charge comes at a cripple point in our history. canada has lost much of its credibility within the last decade when it comes to supporting human rights quote -- causes. it is my hope that canada gives high priority to eradicating torture and bringing who's committed it to justice. enhancing national security and protecting human rights can go hand-in-hand. lastly, i would like to quote kofi annan who says, let us be clear, torture can never be an , forument to fight terror

torture is an instrument of terror. thank you. amy: that was monia mazigh, speaking on behalf of her husband maher arar. we will be speaking with her in a moment. the royal canadian mounted police will now attempt to locate and extradite arar's alleged torturer, colonel george salloum. a canada-wide warrant and interpol notice have reportedly been issued for his arrest. canada's decision to pursue torture charges in maher's case may open the door to further such prosecutions, including of u.s. government officials. in 2010, maher arar appeared on democracy now! and described what happened to him. >> is a long story, but i was basically stopped at jfk airport and i was told it was a routine procedure. eventually, a team of fbi and new york police showed up and started asking me questions.

they had always told me i was not a suspect. the questioning lasted for many, many hours on end and eventually, i was arrested. i was not told why. i spent that night at the airport. i could not sleep. the next day they asked me to go to syria in a refused. i was taken to induce see where i was spend days. basically took me in the middle of the night and shipped me off to syria like a parcel. amy: and what happened there? >> honestly, it was an expedited process. they did not allow me to talk to a judge, even though i insisted. lawyer, whom my family hired. they bypassed the regular procedures. they basically did not care when i protested the fact i may be tortured in syria. amy: tell us what happened to

you in syria. course they dumped me in jordan, a country of no connection to whatsoever. it is an old fact now the jordanians are cooperating fully with the war on terror and hours later, they handed me over to the syrians. in the interrogations started that same day. threats and all kinds of verbal threats. there was electricity and the chair, they called it the german chair. but the beatings started the following day when they started beating me with no advanced warning whatsoever, with a cable, and electrical cable. the most intense beating was on the third day where for some strange reason, they want to meet to say i've been to afghanistan. at the end of the day, i lost all my strength and i told him

what they wanted to hear. so the beating did not stop, but it became much, much less intense. eyes ofn tell in the the investigators come the syrian investigators, i don't even know if i can call them that, they are torturers, that they were looking for something that they wanted to police the americans. but i can't tell you after two weeks of -- i can take you after to ask of torture and harsh interrogation and humiliation, i can tell in their eyes -- amy: maher arar speaking to democracy now! in 2010. in 2007, he received a $10 million settlement from the canadian government. the united states has yet to apologize for taking him from kennedy airport and rendering him to syria where he was tortured for close to a year. for more now we go now to

ottawa, canada, where we're joined by two guests. monia mazigh is the wife of maher arar and the national coordinator of the international civil liberties monitoring group. and alex neve is the secretary general of amnesty international canada. we welcome you both to democracy now! , can you explain exactly how you found out who your husband's torturer was? >> i found out the first time through when my husband came back during our discussion and we had many, many of them. you know, about how he was treated, how he was tortured, how he was kept there. and the name of george salloum came, basically, one of the very whobecause he doesn't know does all of the name of the tortures, but george salloum came out as one precise one. nermeen: and what was maher arar

's reaction when he heard that his alleged torturer, this george salloum, was being charged? reactionk his first was, i mean, he knew that there was an investigation that started in 2005. it was after one of his lawyers advised him to ask -- to have a complaint about that person in particular or, you know, at least someone who tortured him in syria. wasthat investigation taking so much time and maher was not sure whether this was going to finalize with concrete actions, so he was very much surprised, almost believing that this cannot happen. but eventually, it did. nermeen: alex neve, could you talk about the significance of maher arar's alleged torturer

being charged? >> certainly. i come in many people come have been using words like "historic" and "groundbreaking" and it truly is on a number of fronts. first and foremost, it is usually significant because of what it means for maher arar and monia mazigh and their family and personal justice. but a breakthrough in ending torture. we know torture continues in the context of national security, surly and otherwise, because of impunity. torturers get away with it. finally, for the first time ever in canadian history, canadian legal provisions, which have existed since 1985, have for the first time been used to charge someone for torture that happened outside of canada, the first time ever that a foreign government official has been charged for torture under canadian law, and that is an incredible advance in that effort to ensure that people

don't escape justice. and it also conveys that very strong message that torture has no role to play in cases were national security supposedly is the motive. that no matter what, torture is a crime. national security doesn't excuse it or justify it. torture is a crime and those who carried out should face justice. amy: so at this point, you don't know where colonel george salloum is. is that right? in the royal canadian mounted police are trying to help you find him. another royal canadian mounted police also were deeply beingated in maher arar's taken to begin with, is that right? so talk about those two issues, how you begin to find colonel salloum. >> well, maybe i will do the first and monia they want to pick up on the second. in terms of trying to find colonel salloum, honestly, it is a challenge. it is a challenge anytime a

police force is trying to find a foreign suspects. ands doubly challenging we're dealing with a country like syria, that has been ripped apart by devastating civil war for four years now. who knows if he is still alive, has left to syria. but the rcmp is determined to find them and have turned to interpol, known as a blue notice has been issued which means the police forces around the world are being asked to stay on the lookout for our colonel george salloum and if they find him -- and that could be when he crosses a border, when he arrives at an airport, when he gets pulled over somewhere for a traffic stop. if he comes to anyone's attention, the rcmp will learn about it right away and they will take action. how likely is it that that will actually mean is someday he will be in a canadian court house? we can't assign any kind of statistical probability to that, but stranger things have happened. the rcmp will do everything they can to try to make it happen. amy: monia mazigh, if you could respond to the rcmp things are

deeply implicated in your husband's attention and rendition to syria, and yet they are the ones looking for his torturer -- can you explain the background here? >> well, i think -- yes, you are right, the judge who conducted the public inquiry into the action of the canadian government after what happened to my husband pointed out to the andication of the rcmp several other agencies, canadian agencies, sending erroneous information to the united states about my husband. but i think this investigation came because -- it started more, i think, as a legal step, as a legal kind of normal thing to do. at that time, there was a big

break into the relationship between my husband and the rcmp, so -- but my husband decided to go with that investigation, to cooperate, to give them whatever information can be helpful. we were not sure whether this was going to take us anywhere. the fact that it took 10 years, you can tell whoever is hearing or listening about this case, is that it is not an easy one. it is complex investigation, but also there are things happening that we are not aware of and maybe that made the work of the rcmp more difficult and lengthy. know, wehink, you cannot today looking more than 10 years after what happened to my husband, we cannot say while the rcmp is the culprit, we're

not going to talk to them, i think lives move on and what is important to remember is that they did something wrong and now there is this investigation, which is something very positive. what we really need here is more accountability in general. i think canada lacks the accountability when it comes to its national security agencies. we are almost -- it is nonexistent. if that case, or if this new announcement tells us something, it is, we cannot really rely on one particular complaint or one investigation to get justice. we really need to change the system, put more accountable it, more oversight to be able to say that will not happen again to maher arar, but also to any other canadian here in canada

who has been going through this hell. nermeen: alex neve, he suggested earlier this was a historic case, the charging of george salloum. but some have said it is largely a symbolic act, given the fact, as you also said, he is syrian, maybe in syria, which is at the best of times, as you pointed out, very hard to find a foreign suspect, to trace them come on top of which syria is engulfed in a civil war. do you think there's any likelihood that some of the people who were involved in maher arar's rendition and torture closer to home, in canada or here in the united states, are likely to face any consequences? >> well, i think that is one of the big questions that people are been talking about since the charges were announced, that this tremendously important and obviously as monia began in talking about how central george salloum to the torture and horrific abuses mahe

experiencedr, it is vital that he faces accountability, but there's so much more. they're obviously others in syria, including at higher levels above colonel salloum, and certainly u.s. officials -- after all, they're the ones who handed him over to colonel salloum and his fellow criminals to carry out the torture was conducted. and even though we have had the accountability they came to the public inquiry into maher arar's case in canada, there's never been any personal account ability. whether that is criminal -- who knows whether there is criminal account ability, but disciplinary it can ability for rcmp and other officials who played a role in getting everything rolling in the first place. it was bad information. it was inflammatory accusation that began in canada that were passed on to the americans that their ended up making it possible it the end of the day for colonel salloum to torture maher arar. so this can't be the and.

surly, we and others will be pressing the rcmp to continue, that what we need to view this is as a door that was long shot, a door that is a doorway to justice and account ability has finally been opened. and now we need to not just stand up that doorway and looked again, we need to walk through the doorway and ensure this becomes a much more wide-ranging exercise. amy: monia mazigh, the canadian government awarded your family $10 million in a settlement. has the u.s. government ever apologized for originally taking maher at the airport, and jfk? and does he remain on a terrorist watch list in the united states? could you off-line back into the united states -- could you off-line back into the united states? >> to both questions, no. the united states never apologized. i think what was closer -- the

closest thing that we heard -- i remember that was condoleezza rice at some point she said something like that file would have been peddled somehow different, or something. that was the closest thing to apology we can call that or to admission of wrongdoing. routeband tried the legal in the united states, and unfortunately, i think in 2008, if i'm not mistaken, his case was dismissed by the supreme court in the united states. and they pointed out to the political level, so i think -- i agree, i mean, the decision is political. the war on terror is political. and unfortunately, the court could not have the courage, and i think enough courage to go ahead and admit that the system

of rendition is wrong and illegal. when it comes to -- i think you asked whether he is on a terrorist watch list. i don't know for sure if his name still exists there. and the reason is, he doesn't travel to the united states. immediately after he came back, i mean, he knew he was banned to go to the united states and that banning was renewed again i think after five years. so i don't want to -- i don't want them to try because i don't think this is really worth doing . it is about his health. it is about his life. unfortunately now he cannot travel, period. not because he knows or he has

concerned information, it is just because of the fear that one day this can be repeated all over him. it is not a joke or just a speculation or something to take very simplistic, it is age,, the trauma, noa -- it is matter what the compensation, no matter what the apology, his name has been out there, associated with terrorism. and with what is going on in the world about terrorism, national security, scrutiny of passengers, everything, it simply impossible. amy: and yet he is been completely cleared by the canadian government. we are going to have to leave it there. we thank you both for being with us from ottawa, monia mazigh, the wife of maher arar, and alex neve, the head of misty

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