11/05/15 11/05/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! fear thatr eyes the would take the heart of me. the day may come on the courage and we must break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. amy: a battle cry from the hollywood blockbuster "the lord of the rings trilogy." today, the actor known by millions for his portrayal of the character of aragorn joins us in the studio, viggo mortensen, to talk about art and

politics, the ongoing wars in the middle east, u.s. empire, and working with the late historian howard zinn and more. in the police boycott of director plus films of speaking out against police brutality. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. doctors without borders has released an internal report on the u.s. bombing of its hospital in kunduz, afghanistan. the airstrike killed at least 30 people, including 13 staff members, 10 patients, and seven unrecognizable victims get to be identified. doctors without borders has said the strike appears to be a war crime. in a report describes patients burning in a beds, medical staff who were decapitated and lost limbs, and staff members shot from the air while they fled the

burning building. the report described doctors and other medical staff thing shot while running to reach safety in a different part of the compound. doctors without borders says it provided the gps coordinates to u.s. and afghan officials weeks before, and other strikes continued for half an hour after u.s. and afghan authorities were told the hospital was being bombed. doctors without borders general director christopher stokes said "the view from inside the hospital is that this attack was conducted with the purpose to kill and destroy, but we don't know why." in mexico, the supreme court has issued a strong condemnation of the u.s.-backed war on drugs and paved the way for the possible legalization of marijuana. on wednesday, the court ruled four people who had applied for a license to grow and use marijuana have the right to do so. the case lays the groundwork for

future legal action that could lead to legalization nationwide. uruguay legalized marijuana in 2013, and medical marijuana legalization bills are being debated in brazil, chile, colombia, costa rica. mexican president enrique pena nieto spoke after the ruling. the government respect the definitions of the supreme court of the nation and particularly on this issue. i'm also clear this position opens a white debate for eventually discussing a regulation on the issue of consumption of marijuana. this means for us the deliberation now will be about the commercialization for consumption in the legalization of marijuana consumption. amy: this comes as presidential candidate bernie sanders introduced legislation that would end the federal prohibition on marijuana, allowing states the power to legalize and regulate marijuana in the same way state and local laws now govern the sale of alcohol and tobacco, without fear of federal impediment.

-- impeachment. presidential candidate bernie sanders also introduced legislation wednesday to ban new drilling on public lands and waters. the keep it in the ground act would prohibit offshore drilling in the arctic and the atlantic and stop new federal leases for oil, gas or coal extraction on federal lands. >> if we are serious about moving aggressively with the rest of the world, we have got to lead. and that says that senator merkley has said so well, that we do not continue to extract fossil fuel from federally owned land. you can't talk the talk and say i'm concerned about climate change, at the same time, oh, by the way, we're going to extract huge amount of oil or coal or gas from federal land. you can't do that. amy: in romania, prime minister victor ponta has resigned amid massive protests over a night club fire that killed 32 people. following his resignation wednesday, tens of thousands of

people took to the streets of bucharest to demand the end to corruption. one protester told al jazeera, "if the system doesn't remove corrupt people by itself, people will make their own justice. if in 1989 people fought for liberty, in 2015 we are fighting for justice." britain has unveiled a plan for sweeping new surveillance powers, which include giving the government the ability to monitor which websites people visit. experts say parts of the new bill go beyond even the surveillance powers permitted in the united states. home secretary theresa may called the new powers "unprecedented," while also promising transparency. legislationer, the we are proposing today is unprecedented. it will provide unparalleled openness and transparency about our investigator he powers, provide the strongest safeguards

and were leading oversight arrangements, and give the men and women of our security and intelligence agencies and our law enforcement agencies who do so much to keep us safe and secure the powers they need to protect our country. amy: on twitter, nsa whistle blower edward snowden said -- "by my read, #snooperscharter legitimizes mass surveillance. it is the most intrusive and least accountable surveillance regime in the west." british prime minister david cameron has said that it is "more likely than not" that an explosive device brought down a russian passenger plane in egypt's sinai peninsula over the weekend. the crash killed 224 people. britain has suspended flights to and from the red sea resort of sharm el sheikh. both russia and egypt have pushed back against the claim that the plane was bombed. russia said such theories were speculation, while egypt said there was no evidence yet to support them. in turkey, the editors of a left-leaning magazine nokta have been arrested and charged with attempting to instigate a coup

after it published a cover suggesting the results of sunday's national election could lead to a "civil war." the party of president recep tayyip erdogan regained its parliamentary majority on sunday. the victory helps erdogan strengthen a hold on power critics say has become increasingly authoritarian and -- authoritarian. nokta editor ismail eren spoke out about the cover and his colleagues' arrest. >> we picked our cover with the idea the results of the election may polarize the country and may bring the people to a breaking point. it was not an insult or provocation. when you read the story, you could see it is just the summary of what has been going on, but the prosecutor's office interpreted that as a bit and decided to take our magazine out of circulation and also andined our editor in chief another editor. amy: egypt's top court has postponed the final trial of

former egyptian president hosni mubarak over the killing of protesters during the 2011 uprising against his rule. mubarak was originally sentenced to life in prison for conspiring to murder demonstrators but a , retrial was ordered on appeal. the court adjourned the retrial until january 21. in fox lake, illinois, an investigation has found that police officer charles gliniewicz elaborately staged his suicide in september in order to look like he had been killed in the line of duty. the probe also revealed laundered stole and money from a police department program for at least seven years. on the morning of september 1, the officer sent word over his radio that he was pursuing three people on foot. three minutes later, he requested backup. when more officers arrived, they found gliniewicz dead. the department then launched a massive manhunt with more than 400 law enforcement officers raking through the heavy woods

all-terrain vehicles and on , horseback. the death was originally investigated as a homicide, but on wednesday the lake county major crimes task force commander announced the death was "a carefully staged suicide, was the end result of extensive criminal acts that gliniewicz had been committing." before wednesday's revelations that the officer had in fact killed himself, his death had been used by police groups to denounce the black lives matter movement. in september, fox lake residents gathered after gliniewicz's death with signs that read "police lives matter," and the head of the national fraternal order of police told the "washington post," "there's a hostile element within the community at large." meanwhile, in alabama, a second mistrial has been declared in the trial of a madison police officer in a case that left an indian grandfather partially paralyzed. in february, officer eric parker and other officers approached sureshbhai patel as he was taking a walk after a neighbor

called to report a skinny black guy in the neighborhood. dashcamera footage shows police slamming patel from a standing position face-first into the ground. on wednesday, a judge declared a second mistrial after a jury deadlocked on a single charge against officer parker of violating patel's civil rights. in marksville, louisiana, a 6-year-old boy has died and his father is critically wounded after city marshals opened fire on the family's car tuesday. authorities say city marshals were chasing his father, chris few, in efforts to serve him a warrant. when few reached a dead end, he allegedly began to back into the marshals car. the officers then opened fire, killing first-grade jeremy mardis and critically wounding his father. award-winning film director quentin tarantino is refusing to back down from his support of the black lives matter movement, even as police unions have launched a campaign to boycott tarantino's films. tarantino sparked controversy after he called fatal police

shootings "murders" during the rise up october rally against police brutality in new york city on october 24. >> i got something to say, but i would like to give my time to the families who want to talk. i want to get my time to the families just give my time to the families. however, i do want to say, what am i doing here? i'm doing here because i'm a human being with a conscience. and when i see murder, i cannot stand by and i have to call the murdered the murdered and the murderers the murderers. now i will give my time to the family. amy: quentin tarantino defended his remarks on all in with chris hayes on wednesday night. walter scott, of the men running in the park and shot in the back in the case of sam dubose, i believe those were murders.

they were deemed murder. the reason -- the only reason they were deemed murder is because the incidences were caught on video. however, if they had not been caught on video, the murderers would have gotten away with their murder. in the case of air gardener, the case of tamir rice, i believe those were murders, but they were exonerated. amy: other prominent cultural figures have come out in support of quentin tarantino including , mark ruffalo, musician tom morello, native american activist and journalist simon moya-smith, and author joyce carol oates. we will get response from actor and writer viggo mortensen after headlines. former president george hw bush has criticized former vice president dick cheney and former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld over their hawkish reaction to the september 11 attacks in a forthcoming biography. bush is quoted as saying rumsfeld was "an arrogant

fellow" and that dick cheney was "iron-ass." the biography, "destiny and power: the american odyssey of george herbert walker bush," will be published next week. arizona senators jeff flake and john mccain have released a report showing how the u.s. military has spent millions of dollars paying the nfl and other sports leagues for "paid-for patriotism" events and ceremonies. the report documented $6.8 million worth of agreements between branches of the armed forces and sports leagues over the last four years, but it says this amount is only a sliver of the $53 million the military spent on advertising with sports teams during that time. new york, protesters have rallied outside the rockefeller plaza in manhattan to call on nbc to cancel presidential candidate donald trump's upcoming performance on "saturday night live." a petition to "dump trump" has garnered nearly half a million signatures. nbc had previously said it would cut ties with trump after he

called mexican immigrants criminals and rapists, but the candidate is now scheduled to guest host "saturday night live" this weekend. protester juan escalante spoke out at wednesday's protest. >> nbc needs to stand by -- take a stance, break all ties with donald trump and they should not provide him with a platform to be able to attack our communities. i think what donald trump continues to say but immigrants and latinos is revolting. the bottom line, "saturday night live" should not be tried to make fun of what donald trump has said because when donald trump is that he plans on deporting 11 million people, he means that. when he said mexican immigrants are rapists, murderers, drug dealers, he meant that. there is no way for them to take those clips and try to repackage them and pass them off as comedy. amy: police arrested more than 50 professors and their supporters during a rally for faculty on wednesday in new york city. protesters blocked the doors of

the administrative offices of the city university of new york in manhattan in protest of their lack of a contract and low wages. cuny professors say they have not had a contract since 2010 and have not received raises in six years. hundreds of warehouse workers for new york city's b&h photo video voted overwhelmingly to unionize wednesday. the 200 to 88 vote to join the united steel workers union comes after the warehouse workers organized for more than a year with the support of the laundry center. the workers are demanding a contract that will protect them from what they describe as dangerous working conditions inside b&h photo's two brooklyn warehouses. and canada's new prime minister justin trudeau has announced a new cabinet in which half of new members are women. one is a former refugee. an aboriginal woman will be the minister of defense. -- the minister of justice. an astronaut will be leading the ministry of transport.

trudeau spoke out about the new cabinet. >> [indiscernible] have a cap in her that was gender balanced. why is that so important to you? >> because it is 2015. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i am nermeen shaikh. welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. our guest is a world-famous actor from one of the most popular movie franchises of all time, yet box office success is not what's defined his career. in "the lord of the rings" trilogy, viggo mortensen has starred as the warrior king who fords the fight earth. picking.

>> this day does not belong to one man, but to all. let us together revealed this world, that we may share in the days of peace. nermeen: let us together rebuild this world that we may share in the days of peace. viggo mortensen might have said that in middle earth, but it is a line that applies to him on this earth as well. mortensen is the vocal advocate of progressive causes using his celebrity to speak out for social justice. mortensen has appeared in howards performances of

zinn's, "voices of a people's history of the united states" and is a cast member of the television documentary version of, "the people speak." he'll be reading excerpts from "voices of a people's history of the united states" tonight at lincoln center. amy: on top of "the lord of the rings trilogy," mortensen has starred in numerous films, including david cronenberg's movies, "a history of violence," "eastern promises" for which he received an oscar nomination for best actor, and "a dangerous method" for which he received a golden globe award. his most recent films include "far from men" and "jauja" ,in addition to his acting pursuits, viggo mortensen is a poet, painter, and photographer. he is also a book publisher. spotlighting alternative voices. he is the editor at his own imprint, perceval press, which has just reissued the 2003 book, "twilight of empire: responses to occupation." viggo mortensen joins us for the hour. welcome to democracy now! >> thanks for having me.

to talkre not going about "lord of the rings" right now or "history of violence" even about your latest film, but we do want to talk to about this latest book, "twilight of empire." you are we releasing it after 12 years. today, relevant about 2015, that actually goes back to 2003 when he first released the book? --it response to occupation it is a book that was published at the moment we were invading and occupying iraq under false pretenses, you know, based on a pack of lies. it is a collection of essays, reports, even poems from commentators all over the world

-- americans, iraqis, canadians come all kinds of people. including yourself. you wrote a really fine forward for it at the time. in the second edition, howard zinn wrote a very good forward. when i reread it recently, and knowing that our stocks were low, the book has sold out a couple of times, i thought, this book, unfortunately, still holds true. it is not like you're looking like many of the things that were set in 2003, do not hold seen to be in a current -- and accurate statements and lies. this book, i fortunate, the story has not changed and become more complicated. the consequences are of the united states led unjustified invasion of iraq, clear for all to see in the region. what is going on now in the middle east and west asia, the

problems that we face have a lot to do with what happened in 2003. and in this tradition, there are two new essays that speak to what has happened since from dennis kucinich, who was a congressman at the time, and virtually the only person to stand up in congress and say this is wrong, anybody can see the reasons that are being given for this invasion are unfounded. arnove wrote ay very fine forward and he is co-author of the book you mention before. both of these books, in a sense, are the real history. in some cases, unfortunately, the hidden history of the united states. in the case of "twilight of empire" abroad, as a behaves overseas.

here today, this morning. i had a lot of time. i was thinking, and i heard on my way coming out -- i guess it was a radio coming out of a deli or grocery store, the national anthem. i don't know why was being played. it made me think about the first line of our national anthem, "o, say can you see." i love that line. then i thought about the last two lines, "land of the free, home of the brave." those last two lines are the ones that get people up on their feet and make them fill good about themselves and their country. they're all fine and good. "oh, say can you see" is a question, really important question. can you see? can you bear witness to what is happening?

home of the brave -- there are great people all over the world. free? well, freedom is relative. to be free, you have to work at it. it is a work in progress. -- in euroed states and country, is everybody free? it is why like the name of the show, democracy now! what does that mean? it means democracy is not a static thing any more than a supposedly good marriage is a static thing. it takes work. don't wanteople who to see them would rather not find out too much about what is going on in the world in our country and their community, even in their own families. and then there are people who do want to see, who do want to know, who do want to find out. i am one of those. although, i do understand that -- i understand that people don't want to see too much.

you know, people don't want to have to think that there police isartment or their president committee abuses of power. they don't want to think that their parents are committing abuses of power. you know, it is relative. i think the opinions that one has, that one can give, you know, people might watch this show just say, well, there's another jerk from the entertainment business shooting his mouth off. i am a citizen of this country and a citizen of the world. as i say, i like to see. and when i find out something, fax that i find interesting or disturbing, i like to share them with my friends, with others. i have as much right as anyone else to do that. how does democracy work? how does freedom work?

it works like that. people talking about what is going on, people saying, did you see that? you mentioned quinten tino. he saw, like we could all see, certain things -- that doesn't mean that all cops are bad. you did not say that. amy: hold that thought because we're going to take a break and come back to what quinten tarantino said and we want to hear what you say about it. we're talking to viggo mortensen for the hour, the academy award nominated actor, editor of perceval press, which just reissued its 2003 book "twilight , of empire: responses to occupation." yes, viggo mortensen has starred in many firms including "the lord of the rings trilogy." we will be back with viggo in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: viggo mortensen singing bob dylan "masters of war" courtesy of the people speak. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. as we go now to the controversy around the award-winning film director quentin tarantino, on october 24, democracy now! was down at washington square park. there was a major protest. quentin tarantino spoke at the rise up october rally against police brutality before thousands of people here in new york city. >> i got something to say, but actually, i would like to give my time to the families that want to talk. i want to give my time to the however, i do also want to say, what am i doing here?

i'm doing here because i'm a human being with a conscience. and when i see murder, i cannot stand by and i have to call the murdered the murdered and the murderers the murderers. now i'm going to give my time to the family. nermeen: his comments of, under intense criticism. several major police unions have called for a boycott of his films. on wednesday night, tarantino defended his remarks on "all in" with chris hayes. >> in the case of walter scott, who was the men running in the park and was shot in the back in the case of sam debose, i believe those were murder and they were deemed murder. and the reason -- the only reason they were deemed murder is because the incidences were caught on video. however, if they had not been caught on video, the murderers would have gone away with their murder. in the case of eric garner and

tamir rice, i believe those were murderers -- murders, but they were exonerated. nermeen: that was quenn tarantino speaking on chris hayes last night. viggo mortensen, could you respond to this controversy? >> well, i saw both the clip of what he said on october 24 and i saw him on "all in" last night with chris hayes and i thought quentin tarantino knocked it out of the park in his interview last night. he clearly saw what anybody with ,yes in their head could see and certain videos, fortunate, though certain events were videotaped of police brutality. he was commenting, like the people, the families of those who had been slain by police officers, unharmed people, you know. in some cases, those acts have been condemned, have been called murder.

and in other cases that have controversially not been. you know, what happened on staten island, you know, recently, and in other places, even though they were videotaped . all consumer what was going on. clearly, there is a small minority, obviously, and it is a notlem, of police officers just in new york and not just a missouri, and not just in the south, but all over the country -- there are some individuals who break the law, who are committing criminal acts as police officers, who are murdering or using excessive force. , andhat is more troubling that is part of the reaction, the backlash against tarantino, is the condoning -- the tacit condoning of these abuses of power by certain police officers

, by their bosses, by people who should know better. quentin tarantino did not say that all cops are murderers. he did not say, "i hate cops." he never said any of those things. he said certain things, and i've seen and everyone has seen, all along, and i'm bearing witness. that is what the howard zinn and "twilight of empire" are about, bearing witness. amy: police unions are calling for a boycott of his upcoming film. interestingly, you turned down a role in "the hateful eight" and you also addition for his film "reservoir dogs." >> yeah, windows early in his career, his first feature, "reservoir dogs," i auditioned for that and that was fun. i was lucky to meet quentin tarantino again about a year ago before he was going to shoot "the hateful eight." i sent it wasn't available. it wasn't that i turned it down. i wasn't available to do it.

amy: mark ruffalo, joyce carol oates am a they have all come out in support of tarantino. do you join that list? >> absolutely. it is not just tarantino, it is about the other people that were there in a 24th. it is not just being someone in the entertainment business does not give you more right than anyone else to speak, and it's really doesn't give you less right. the way the police authority figures are speaking against tarantino is by making a relevant judgments about his movies -- air relevant judgment about his movies. and that will work with a certain part of the population, who likes to think, well, everything done in the movie business is solomon gomorrah and these people should not be allowed to speak and so forth. i don't think anything i say on this program today is going to be a problem for me as far as a

big reaction because i am not, see myw, i mean, people movies, fortunately, but it is not like when "lord of the rings" came out and i was more in the news along with the rest of the cast. those movies were a box office phenomenon. attacked mercifully and slander by people for just saying in 2009, i think in 2002 on charlie rose and other places when i was asked what i thought about camino, what was going on or the buildup to war in iraq. there's no justification for his what i said and i got hundreds of e-mails a day for month-to-month saying, why don't you move to france? and much worse. nermeen: i want to turn -- >> a coward and i do not have a right to speak. this is what they do to quentin tarantino, sing your movie maker, you don't have a right to speak. and the politicians begin about politics. i think letting our rulers decide how to govern us is not

-- we haven't had a great history. nermeen: i want to go back to 2002 before the us entered the war in iraq. you appeared on charlie rose along with fellow lord of the rings actor elijah wood producer peter jackson. you were a t-shirt that said, "no more blood for oil." charlie rose asked if you're making a political statement by wearing that shirt. >> i would not normally, but this is sort of a reaction to i've heard a lot of people say to me and read and a lot of places about the first movie and increasingly about the second one, scene where people tried to relate it to the current situation, specifically, the united states and their role in the world right now. if you're going to compare them, then you should get it right. i don't like hearing -- i mean, i played a character who is defending helms d, you know, and towers orink the two

peter's work or our work has anything to do with the united states foreign adventures at this time. it upsets me to hear that and away, and of sesame more that -- and upsets me more questioning what the united states is doing is considered treasonous, and how do you say that and how un-american of you. if theuntry is founded government is not serving the people, you least have a right to say, wait a minute, what is going on? no questions are really being asked a large about what we're doing. nermeen: that was your appearance on charlie rose in 2002. could you talk about the response you received to what you said that evening on charlie rose? >> well, there were some people, friends of mine or people who are among those who do like to find out or do like to see what is going on and think for

that it waswho felt a good thing to speak up. yes, i was there to promote the movie. and there are some who would say, you're there to talk about the movie, don't talk about that. he asked me about the shirt i was wearing, so i answered. and there are times -- amy: you made the show yourself? on a whiteharpie t-shirt. i think that are times when you have to speak up or you should, or you look back and think, i should have said something. because i knew better. and that goes for most of congress. in 2002, 2003. this interview you just showed a clip from was in the fall 2002. i think on that show at one point weather was on the air or not i don't know, charlie said, why are you saying there's going to be in invasion of iraq? i said, today i open the fashion section and they were showing all the new military uniforms.

this is a movie that obviously is greenlit and well on its way in preproduction, and it is ready to go. amy: and you are not talking but "lord of the rings." >> i was talking about the invasion of iraq under false pretenses. i don't know, you know, i got a lot -- that was when the second movie was coming out, the "two towers." all of us involved in that trilogy were sadly very popular -- suddenly very popular. just like the case with quentin tarantino now speaking about police brutality and the condoning of it by the authorities, police departments, i got a lot of crap at the time. tons of it on a daily basis for months and months, that i was a traitor, that i should move to france him i said, and much worse. this is what routinely happens. quentin tarantino did not say

anything that many other people have said, but because he is a public figure and he will be making the rounds and doing interviews for months to come, probably go to the oscars with his movie "the hateful eight," and so forth, they attacked that movie and are trying to make people boycotted and so forth. i have a feeling that probably more people will go see the movie than would have anyway. i don't know. it doesn't matter. but sometimes you do lose employment, you do -- amy: have you ever? >> i don't know. i mean, i have gotten e-mails at times when i have said something critical of u.s. foreign-policy, whether it be the government of israel or problems in the middle used -- in the middle east, problems in latin america. when i've spoken about camino, something that is a long tradition in this country. even in recent history, the clinton doctre, bill clinton

doctrine, a sickly says the united states has reserves the right to use unilateral military that,anytime, anywhere it know, it feels that doesn't have access to foreign markets or resources, anytime it itss to enforce geopolitical ambitions. i mean, that is crazy. that is tyranny. and george w. bush did not do anything, either. he does follow that doctrine and so has barack obama. i saw an excellent show you had on here with jeremy's cahill talking about the drone papers. i mean, everybody should see that. i want to see. i want to know. when i saw that show, i sent that link to everybody i knew and many people i didn't know. whether they looked at it or not, i don't know, but there are times when you have to say something.

i felt at that moment in 2002, in the fall of 2002, in new york city, here we were were the year before, you know, september 11 and all that, and just there are certain things that can't be left alone without comment, i think. amy: it is interesting that period in the fall of 2000 two when you're speaking outcome even as you're pushing your film, but making this larger point. at that time in 2002 at the end of it, hillary clinton stood up on the floor of the senate with many other democratic and republican senators and voted to authorize the war in iraq. now fast-forward to 2015 and democratic presidential candidates hillary clinton and bernie sanders have voiced support for president obama's plan to keep u.s. troops in afghanistan through the end of obama's term in 2017. obama had declared an official end to the u.s. combat mission in afghanistan last year, but announced last month he was

halting the phased military withdrawal. speaking on cnn, hillary clinton backed obama's decision. >> i will not sit here today and say what i would do upon taking office because, again, we want to bring our troops home. we certainly don't want them engaged in on the ground combat. we want them to have -- help support and train the afghan army, and we want them to continue to work with the government of afghanistan to try to help strengthen security for them. so i can't predict where things will be in january 2017, but i support the president's decision. amy: so there is hillary clinton today in 2015, as you watch this, viggo mortensen, your thoughts on the presidential campaign and on the new clinton was running for president? >> well, the new clinton, which isn't all that new as far as ideas when you talk about foreign-policy, certainly, she

is the likely democratic nominee. and i don't expect that she nor any of the republican candidates are going to talk in any detail in 2002,t happened 2003, you know, certainly, they're not going to talk about direct. i mean, trump has thrown a few firecrackers at jeb bush to try to get a rise out of him. the subject of what our government did and what we as happen, inlowed to 2003, and the consequences that we're living with now, is not going to be a topic of conversation, really, i don't think, in the presidential campaign. i mean, i wish bernie sanders would be president for many reasons. i think in many ways he speaks

truth to power, but even in foreign-policy, you know, i mean, he's a person who as a senator has voted for every military appropriation, has voted for every, you know, resolution pro-israel government .esolution without question in many ways, yet is as hawkish as the clinton is. i don't have a problem -- amy: what would you say to him about israel? >> i would say have to treat israel like everybody else. i don't like that israel is basically a military base for the united states. is in part, basically. i've never like that. it is relative. you can see certain things and it bothers you and you get over it. i don't like that the mets lost the will series, but i will get over it. i don't like that we invaded

iraq and i'll never get over it. people whoe that knew better voted to give permission for the u.s. administration to do that. there are many things that are really serious. amy: you wrote a poem in "twilight of empire," and when we come back, we would like to have you read that as well as talk more about world politics will stop yes, we're talking about the world-renowned actor viggo mortensen who also happens to be the editor, a publisher, the editor of perceval press which has just reissued its 2003 "twilight of empire." we will be back with them in a moment. ♪ [music break]

amy: patti smith is performing in new york on november 10. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. hour ist for the choking me up right now. world-renowned author, viggo mortensen. he is an actor, a publisher, a poet. he is a photographer and an artist. nermeen: last month, nbc's chuck todd asked democratic presidential hopeful bernie sanders about his position on drones. what does counterterrorism look like in a sanders administration? drones? >> well, all of that and more. >> you are ok with the drone? >> drone is a weapon. when it works badly, it is terrible and counterproductive. a facility or building which kills women and children, you know what? it is terrible.

>> but your comfort with using drones if you think you isolated an important terrorist? >> yes. look, we all know there are people as of this moment plotting against united states. we have to be vigorous in protecting our country no matter what. amy: presidential hopeful bernie sanders talking about drones. viggo mortensen, your assessment of what he said? >> not surprising. as i say, for all the good things he does, he's also very hawkish and not really different than hillary clinton in that regard or any of the republicans. amy: how is he different? >> he's not, really. the one thing i think that hillary has been using and will continue to use is the gun thing in this country, gun laws and what bernie's track record is in vermont will stop i am someone who was raised hunting with my father and so forth, so i'm not as troubled by his stance -- i

mean, he is for gun control in a sense, and in a lot of ways, he is someone who people want something done about gun control can feel good about, but he also looks at people in rural areas and hunting. i'm less troubled about that a much more troubled about his warlike stance. but that isn't one to be talked about anymore than what really happened in iraq and what it means today. that isn't going to be talked about. nermeen: viggo mortensen, a lot of people, you are celebrity and world-renowned actor, but you're also very politically engaged. could you say a little bit about what inspired you to become politically engaged in the way that you have? >> i don't know. i have always been curious. i like to know what is going on. i drove my mom crazy probably as a get by saying, why? she would explain in a would say, but why?

amy: were you born? >> in new york city. we moved around a lot, scandinavia. amy: you lived in when a series? >> argentina, yes. amy: i think we have a clip of the pope during his historic visit in u.s., pope francis, an argentinian, addressed congress and spoke out against the global arms trade. >> weapons being sold to those who plan to inflict untold suffering on individuals and sadly, the answer, as we all know, is simply for money. money that is drenched in blood. often, innocent blood.

in the face of the shameful and culpable silence, it is our duty to confront thestop the arms tr. amy: pope francis addressing an unprecedented joint session of congress, never before did a pope do that. viggo mortensen, you lived growing up in argentina. unity pope -- you knew the pope? >> know, but he blessed a chapel that i had donated and built on some grounds with soccer, football team, that he is supported all his life. so we have that in common in the cayman blessed that place. it is a place that was built when we inaugurated a said, this is up all -- a place for all, atheists, jews, even people from other soccer teams. i thought that was fantastic

what he said. he has done many things. he is going to guess the current within the church and it is amazing what he is been saying and many of the things he is doing. i wish i could say the same thing about barack obama and his first and second terms, everything that he promised, the change he promised. , well,ot enough to say the republicans asked i'm in the all the way -- which is true. there are choices he made from the people he appointed, criminals from -- to start with after the 2008 collapse of the economy, and especially foreign policy, we talked about drones and i could go on and on and i want. something about being engaged. there are many ways to be engaged. one is to talk about -- amy: you speak many languages? english to spanish? >> i'm interested. i like to know if people are saying. amy: your father is from?

>> denmark. amy: you speak danish, swedish? >> once you learn a couple as a kid -- we can talk about politics and talk about facts. sometimes, as i said, this book "twilight of empire," has not only essays and reports from that moment in 2003, but there also poems by different people. i have a pullman here. in here. a pull them i'll to the liberty of reading it. sometimes you can say things with a poem in a different way. this was written in 2003 right at the point of the invasion or just before it in february 2003. it takes place in iraq or what used to be babylon, that part of the world that is traversed by you'reers tigris and afraid he's called back to babylon. .

why briefly return to play unbroken places to mock the ground, to collect entered shards, coins, fossils were the familiar empty canisters and casings that went from poisoned roots in the blackened dust believebad ghost and we we too will fade as her acrid smoke and strange flakes of skin and strains of here will into largely undocumented extinction, lie down, lie down. sleep is the best thing for being awake. do as we have always been told and done in a backward glances her second thought leaving son mark is buried in the sand. sleep now, dream of children with their heads still on our grandmothers unburdening close lines at twilight, a full kettle nameless victims to claim remains while we rest. a at the window for reheated, pre-prejudiced incantations him a take them home and enjoy

widescreen have to adjusted replay previews of solemn national celebration, then sleep, by all means we need all the energy we can muster for compiling this generation's abridged anthology of the official war stories, highlights of heedless slaughter to burnish our long and proud imperial tradition at some point by virtue of accidentally seeing and listening, we may find ourselves participating in our own rendering few of our prey will be left alive and will have to water the sum of their modest time rubbed repetitions to rephrase the particular unifying laws our version of events has a ready made its money back in foreign distribution and presales all victory deadlines must be met. it can get so quiet with or without the dead watching our constant deployments from our tilted promontory we may see one last woman scuffled away across cracked parchment of dry wash beneath us on muttering to herself, or is c singing at

us? she disappears into a growth of trembling shadows lining the main road. we will soon hear little other than our breathing, she'll cools and bats rise to feed, taking over from sated swallows. night anywhere is home, darkness q4 turning inward. quiet, an invitation to review our expense of successes for morning extraction from the twin rivers of our common cradle. amy: that is viggo mortensen reading "back to babylon," his own writing and "twilight of empire." a book that has been released after 12 years, released in u.s. invaded iraq and now in 2015. the last few minutes we have together, what words do you have for young artists, actors -- you

are a musician as well, photographer -- who might be afraid to speak out in the way you have? in a sense, it is what makes you the renaissance man your described as. you're not only, you know, are involved in all of these different fields in the world, but you speak out on many different issues. what about people who are afraid, feel he will destroy their career, that they can never star in "lord of the rings" if they dared to read something like that? >> i don't know. each person has to make their own decisions. you know, each person has to answer the question, "oh, say can you see?" "oh, say, do you want to see?" no for say, don't take an answer in terms of a career, whether it is an actor or writer , someone was to be a director or journalist like yourselves, don't take no for an answer for something that you really want

to do. stick to it. stick around. you learn a lot by listening to others, by paying attention, by making a conscious effort to see -- i understand, as i said before, up a lot of times people don't want to know, surly don't want to speak about what they have seen because it is unpleasant, can be depressing when you start to dig around and find out things, and there is that fear you speak of, you know, am i going to lose the job? is my movie not going to be seen by many people? are people going to hate me? those things do happen. people are blacklisted. one of the most important activists of the 20 century in the united states was paul robison. he is someone who spoke truth to power in a way howard zinn and anthony arnove and always people in "twilight of empire" in these ordinary americans that history do.

paul robison, because when he would go overseas and perform, spoke about u.s. foreign-policy and about, you know, the to radical aspect of u.s. foreign-policy -- tyrannical aspect of u.s. foreign policy. the next time he came home, he had his passport taken away and he talked about being a member of the u.s. resistance movement in the same sentence that there was some in france who are part of the resistance movement and thenazis. when he quitted the two things, people were scandalized. amy: we have to wrap up. we hope we can continue the conversation. viggo mortensen is a world-renowned actor, editor of perceval press, which just reissued the 2003 book, "twilight of empire: responses to occupation." he will be tonight performing in a reading of "voices of a people's history of the united states" tonight at lincoln center. tomorrow night, friday night at 7:00, we will be together at jackson mcnally books -- mcnally

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