04/13/16 04/13/16 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from stanford university in palo alto, california, this is democracy now! you about like to ask policiesrica and the that you would likely involved in, the koran honduras. >> athe canrospe mad very difficult situation without bloodshed without a civil war, that led to a new election and i think that was better for the honduran people. amy: hillary clinton defends her handling of the 2009 coup in honduras when asked by our own juan gonzalez.

we will play their whole exchange and get response from historian dana frank. dennis refugees from afghanistan, iraq, syria and other war-torn countries seek safety in europe, what role should the united states play in helping them in countries the u.s. has bombed? we will speak to stanford professor robert crews about "america's afghan refugee crisis." then john kerry becomes the first u.s. secretary of state to visit hiroshima. >> we came here andrew from the experience of touring in this museum how critical it is that we all apply the lessons of the past to the future and the present to create and pursue a world free from nuclear weapons. amy: we will look at how the united date has been quietly upgrading its nuclear arsenal to create smaller, more precise nuclear bombs as part of a massive effort that will cost up

to $1 trillion over three decades. we will speak to marylia kelley, author of the new report, "trillion dollar trainwreck." all of that and more coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in washington, d.c., police have arrested about 85 more protesters taking part in the democracy spring actions against corporate lobbying and big money in politics. this comes after more than 400 people were arrested after a sit-in at the capitol on monday. the corporate networks widely ignored monday's arrests. according to a tally by the intercept, cnn did not devote any coverage to the protests. msnbc mentioned them for 12 seconds and fox news discussed them for 17 seconds. cnn later posted a short item

online. to see our interview with democracy spring organizer kai newkirk, go to democracynow.org. nearly 40,000 verizon workers on the east coast have walked off the job, marking one of the biggest u.s. strikes in years. the workers have been without a contract since august as they attempt by verizon to cut pensions and ease the outsourcing of work. pickets are expected at hundreds of verizon sites from massachusetts to virginia. verizon says it's trained thousands of non-union employees to fill in. north carolina governor pat mccrory has issued an executive order regarding the state's new anti-lgbt law. the law bars transgender people from using the bathroom that corresponds to their gender identity, and eliminates local ordinances against anti-lgbt discrimination. the law has sparked wide protest. bruce springsteen canceled a concert in north carolina and paypal and deutsche bank said

they will scrap plans for expansions in the state. on tuesday, mccrory said he would expand protections for lgbt state employees and seek legislation to restore the right to sue for discrimination. toyou know, after listening people's feedback during the past several weeks on this issue, i have come to the conclusion that there is a great deal of misinformation, misinterpretation, confusion, passion, and, frankly, selective outrage and hypocrisy, especially against the great state of north carolina. but based on this feedback, i'm taking action to affirm the state's commitment to privacy and equality. amy: the aclu of north carolina called mccrory's order "a poor effort to save face after his sweeping attacks on the lgbt community." president obama meets with top aides at cia headquarters today to discuss the u.s. campaign

against isis. this comes as pentagon officials tell the "new york times" u.s. airstrikes have killed 25,000 isis fighters. meanwhile, the "wall street journal" reports the cia and its regional partners have drawn up a so-called plan b for syria to supply rebels opposed to syrian president bashar al-assad with more powerful weapons if a six-week truce collapses. peace talks aimed at ending the syrian conflict are set to resume in geneva today. an algerian-american man arrested in a controversial plot that drew accusations of entrapment has attempted suicide after detailing brutal abuse behind bars. ahmed ferhani pleaded guilty in 2012 to terrorism-related charges for discussing attacks on new york city synagogues with an undercover officer. but the nation reports the case against him was flimsy. ferhani had a history of mental illness and days before his arrest, he told the officer he wanted to flip the guns they were going to buy for a profit.

he wrote to attorney general loretta lynch detailing plans to -- a litany of threats, denial of food and water, and targeted violence while behind bars at attica and great meadow correctional facility. he wrote "if taking my life is filled away to expose the evils practiced daily by corrections officers, then i will be glad to do it." he is now in a medically induced coma after he attempted to hang himself at attica last week. house speaker paul ryan says he would not accept the republican presidential nomination. rumors have centered on ryan as a possible alternative if neither donald trump, ted cruz, or john kasich crosses the delegates, but37 ryan said he is not interested. >> if no majority has enough in the first ballot, i believe we should only choose from a person

who is actually participated in the primary. count me out. i simply believe that if you want to be the nominee for our party to be the president, you should actually run for it. i chose not to do this. therefore, i should not be considered period, end of story. amy: new results from colorado show bernie sanders one one more delegate than initially reported. "the denver post" reports the colorado democratic party admitted this week that it misreported the march 1 caucus results from 10 precinct locations. while hillary clinton's campaign discussed the error with state party officials last week, the sanders campaign apparently did not find out until monday, when they were informed by the "denver post." clinton had been projected to win the majority of colorado's 78 delegates because of her support from unelected superdelegates. but the corrected tally means the worst sanders could do is a time. if he wins one superdelegate he

, could win the colorado delegation. this comes as sanders and clinton prepare to face off at a debate in brooklyn on thursday. georgia has executed an african-american man, despite reports of possible racial bias in the case. kenneth fults pleaded guilty in 1997 to killing his 19-year-old neighbor, cathy bounds. his lawyers sought clemency for fults, saying he had an intellectual disability. attorneys say his trial lawyer failed to tell about this disability and slept through parts of the sentencing. one of the jurors later used a racial slur to describe him. the george holding investigation -- "once he pled guilty, i knew i would vote for the death penalty because that is what that n-word death penalty because that's deserved." fults' clemency petition was rejected. he was killed by lethal injection at tuesday night. 7:37 p.m. the news channel al

jazeera america has signed off for the last time. the u.s.-focused branch of the qatar-based network launched in 2013 after al jazeera purchased current tv from former vice president al gore. about 700 people are losing their jobs. richelle carey and antonio mora said goodbye tuesday night. >> from our first moments on the on when we welcome you august 20, 20 13, we have tried to bring you the stories that other news organizations don't. and we hope we have lived up to our promise, to be the voice of the voiceless and to speak truth to power. >> to those of you who have supported us on-air and online, we thank you for allowing us to tell your stories. >> good night and goodbye. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. with the new york primary less than a week away, the race for the democratic nomination continues to heat up. hillary clinton and bernie

sanders will meet thursday in brooklyn for their first debate in over a month. we begin today's show looking at hillary clinton and honduras. earlier this week, the former secretary of state publicly defended her role in the 2009 coup in honduras that ousted democratically elected president manuel zelaya in the middle of the night, deposed him, and sent him and exile. since the coup, honduras has become one of the most violent places in the world. clinton was asked about honduras during a meeting with the new york daily news editorial board on saturday. the question was posed by democracy now!'s own juan gonzalez. juan: secretary clinton, i would like to ask if i can about latin ,merica and the policies specifically that you are directly involved in, the coup in honduras. as you know in 2009, the military overthrew president zelaya. there was a time when the oas

was joined isolate the regime. -- was trying to isolate the regime. some of the e-mails have shown that some of your top aides were urging you to declare a military .oup, cut off usaid you ended up negotiating for a deal for a new election. but the situation in honduras has continued to deteriorate. [inaudible] just a few weeks ago, one of the leading environmental activists was assassinated in her home. do you have any concerns about the role you played in a particular situation? well, let me again try to put this in context. legislature, the national legislature in honduras and the

national judiciary actually followed the law in removing president zelaya. now, i did not like the way it looked or the way they did it, but they had a very strong argument that they had followed the constitution and the legal precedent. as you know, they really undercut their argument by spiriting him out of the country in his pajamas were they sent the military, you know, to take him out of his bed and get him out of the country. mixeds began as a very and difficult situation. if the united states government declares a coup, you immediately have to shut off all aid, ,ncluding humanitarian aid the support that we were providing at that time for a lot of very poor people.

and that triggers a legal necessity. there is no way to get around it. so our assessment was, we will just make the situation worse by punishing the honduran people if we declare a coup and we immediately have to stop all aid for the people, but we should slow off and try to stop anything that the government could take advantage of without calling it a coup. so you are right. i worked very hard with leaders in the region and got oscar arias, the nobel winner, to take the lead on trying to broker a resolution without bloodshed. and that was very important to us, that zelaya had friends and allies, not just in honduras, but in some of the neighboring countries like nicaragua. and that we could have had a terrible civil war that would terrifying in

loss of life. so i think we came out with a solution that did hold new elections, but it did not in any way address the structural systemic problems in that society. and i share your concern that it --not just government action drug gangs, traffickers of all kinds are preying on the people of honduras. so i think we need to do more of a colombian plan for central america. remember what was going on in columbia when first my husband and then followed by president bush had planned colombia, which was to try to use our leverage to rein in the government in their actions against the farc and gorillas, but also to help the government stop the advance rillas andc and gue

now we are in the middle of peace talks. it took a number of years, but i want to see a much more conference of approach towards it shall america because it is not just honduras. the highest murder rate is in el salvador and we have guatemala with all of the problems you know so well. i think in retrospect, we managed a very difficult situation without bloodshed, without a civil war, that led to a new election. and i think that was better for the honduran people, that we have a lot of work to do to try to help stabilize that and deal with corruption, deal with violence and the gangs and so much else. amy: that was democratic presidential hopeful hillary clinton responding to a question from democracy now!'s juan gonzalez on saturday during a meeting with the "new york daily news" editorial board. juan later wrote about the exchange in a column for the new york daily news titled, "clinton's policy was a latin american crime story." we'll link to it on our website. for more on honduras, we are

joined by hillary clinton and the legacy of the 2009 coup, dana frank. she is a professor of history at the university of california, santa cruz, and an expert on human rights and u.s. policy in honduras. professor frank, it is great to have you with us. hillary clinton said a lot in this five-minute exchange with juan gonzalez. >> it is breathtaking that she would say these things. i think we are reeling that she would both to enroll role in supporting its stabilization in the aftermath. first of all, the fact that she says they did it legally, the did thisjudiciary legally, is mind-boggling. the fact that she then is going to say that it was not an unconstitutional coup, it is incredible. when she actually had a table that we have in the u.s. ambassador of honduras said it was very clearly in illegal and

unconstitutional coup. she even amidst and are in statement that it was the honduran military that she says, well, this was the only thing wrong, it was the military that took zelaya out of the country, as opposed to somehow he was a legal thing we did that the honduran government did deposing a president. amy: i want to try to that wikileaks cable on honduras. the u.s. embassy, the capital of hundreds, sent a cable to washington on july 24, 2009. less than a month after the coup. the subject line was, "open and shut: the case of the honduran coup." the cable asserted -- "there is no doubt" that the events of june 28, 2009 "constituted an illegal and unconstitutional coup." the embassy listed arguments by supporters of the coup to claim its legality and dismissed each of them, saying "none has any substantive validity under the honduran constitution." the embassy went on to say the

honduran military had no legal authority to remove president zelaya from office or from honduras. the embassy also characterized the honduran military's actions as an abduction and kidnapping that was unconstitutional. again, this was the u.s. embassy memo that was sent from honduras to washington. sure listenerske understand how chilling it is that the leading presidential -- a leading presidential candidate in the u.s. would say this is not a coup. the second thing is, she is lying when she says we never called it the coup, because that would mean we have to suspend aid. first of all, they repeatedly called it a coup. we can see state department statements for months calling it a coup and confirming, yes, we call it a coup. she refused use the word "military coup" show she split hairs. very clearly says coupit it is a

significantly evolving the military, we have to immediately suspend all aid. they decided to have this interpretation that it was a coup, but not a military coup. hillary clinton -- and obama for that matter, i want to make clear, in violation of u.s. law, clearly said if there is a coup they have to cut the military to the all other aid country, she violated the law, decided, well, it wasn't a military coup -- which it was. amy: the memo is very clear. cable is clear. even what she said on saturday, she said, well, the military put him on a plane and that is the only problem. she is admitting it was a military-led coup. therefore, she some violation of the law, so is obama by not immediately suspending aid. then she is saying, well, we never called it a coup. hello, we have so many state department statements that they

call it a coup. amy: in march 2010, she traveled to meet with the honduran president whose election was boycotted by opponents of the coup that overthrew cilia. hillary clinton urged latin american countries at the time to normalize ties with the coup government. >> we think honduras has taken important and necessary steps that deserve the recognition in the normalization of relation. i have just and a letter to the congress of the united hates notifying them that we will be restoring aid to honduras. other countries in the region .ay they want to wait a while i don't know what they're waiting for, but that is their right to wait. amy: that was hillary clinton in 2010, professor frank. >> what she did at the time was she played out the strategy, obama and clinton played out the

strategy, that they would delay negotiations. they treated the post coup dictator as an equal partner to themdent zelaya, moved into a sphere the could control and elated until the already scheduled elections in november. the problem is, as you say, this almost -- all most all of the opposition had pulled out of that election. all international observers had pulled out, refusing to observe that election. the only observers were the u.s. republican party and saying this was not a legitimate election. that day, even before the polls closed, the less recognized the outcome of the election. this is what we stick called a demonstration election -- this is what we used to call a demonstration election. amy: also in 2010 at the annual meeting of the organization of american states, member nations remained divided over whether to allow honduras back into the oas. honduras was expelled from the

body the year before after the military coup ousted zelaya. this is hillary clinton then. >> our ongoing discussions about honduras makes clear the urgency of this agenda. as we emphasized when the united states along with the rest of the hemisphere condemned the coup in honduras. these interruptions of democracy should be completely relegated to the past. and it is a credit to this organization that they have become all but nonexistent in the americas. now it is time for the hemisphere as a whole to move forward and welcome honduras back into the inter-american community. amy: in her memoir "hard choices," hillary clinton wrote about the days following the 2009 coup in honduras that ousted the democratically elected president manuel zelaya. she wrote --

"in the subsequent days i spoke with my counterparts around the hemisphere, including secretary espinosa in mexico. we strategized on a plan to restore order in honduras and ensure that free and fair elections could be held quickly and legitimately, which would render the question of zelaya moot." that was from the hardcover version of hillary clinton's memoir. that section was later removed from the paperback version. the significance of this? things like this -- the fact she would say, we wanted to render the question of wanted to bury the existence of the democratically elected president and act like it did not happen. that is why did so terrifying that on saturday she would say, she would defend this coup is a was in ac and defend her actions in installing this horrifically scary post -- coup regime and cut that out of her memoir the paperback version is also very scary.

amy: can you talk about the significance of dust hillary clinton's stance then, and let's remember, she was secretary of date serving the president. the president being barack obama. what responsibility does the secretary of state have in this? and what did it mean for honduras right up through today? >> obama handed latin america over to her and allowed her to carry forth this policy. obama made some noises the first day were to and after that, was largely silent and handed over to secretary of state clinton. clearly, he was her boss. if he did not approve of this, it would not have happened. i think it is important we talk about hillary clinton a candidate what she is doing, to talk about obama's responsibility for that and his responsibility for what has happened since. i think that coup in the illegitimate election that followed it that hillary clinton is celebrating so clearly in her

statements open the door to this complete -- almost complete destruction of the rule of law in honduras. people here about the gangs and violence and drug traffickers taking over, well, that is because the post-coup government michiletti and the now current one, are in cahoots with the various forms of organized crime and drug traffickers and violence against the honduran people. this regime has led to this tremendous corruption of the judiciary and the police and the military, for that matter. what has happened to honduras is not just like a randomly violent people down there, this is a u.s.-supported regime. the aftermath of the coup, if you look at the statistics, yes, -- the tremendous destruction of the rule of law in honduras. amy: i want to go to what happened most recently. last month, gunmen assassinated berta caceres a well-known

hundred dissident, winner of the prestigious 2015 goldman environment prize. this fascinates her in her home. in 2014, berta caceres spoke about hillary clinton's role in the 2009 coup with the argentine tv program. wewe're coming out of a coup cannot put behind us. we cannot reverse it. it just kept going. after, there was the issue of the election. the same hillary clinton and her book "hard choices," practically said what was going to happen in honduras. this demonstrates the meddling of north americans and our country. the return of manuel zelaya became a secondary issue. he or she, clinton, recognize they did not permit manuel zelaya's richard to the presidency, they were going to the elections. the international community, the great majority, accepted this, even though we warned this was going to be very dangerous and that it would permit our

barbarity not only in honduras, but in the rest of the continent and we have been witnesses to this. amy: that was honduran environmentalist, indigenous activist berta caceres, speaking in 2014, murdered last month in her home in honduras. talk about what berta caceres said, and the significance of her assassination, this horror that took place in honduras. topshe was so prominent and of the target list in honduras. >> berta caceres was this amazing, inspiring indigenous leader and environmental activist. amy: did you know her? >> i did. i spent time with her in san francisco and oakland when she got the goldman prize last year. i remember first meeting her when she got a phone call about the botched autopsy of the people that were killed by the dea in honduras.

of course, we don't even know the results of her own autopsy today. the ironies of that are chilling. she was so inspiring and beautiful. ,f people googled berta caceres in every picture she is glowing. you can just feel her presence. this tremendous heartbreak for all of us. i want to make sure people understand this is the biggest assassination since the coup. there have been hundreds of people that have been assassinated, both high state security forces and by private actors and death squads, but they never touched the top leaders of the opposition. was a top leader of the opposition. in fact, when the resistance to the territories, she cap his beautiful speech welcoming everybody. one of the most beautiful speeches i have ever heard. what is going on now -- she was so internationally renowned. speaker of the house -- excuse me, ranking democrat in the house of representatives nancy pelosi gave a whole reception in her honor last year.

everybody did everything they could to protect berta, and she was still assassinated. this is a clear message by the honduran elite, the honduran right, that they will kill anybody now. i want people to understand that everyone feels like they can be killed, no matter how famous they are. amy: on sunday, bill clinton, spoke at the new york hall of science in corona, queens. he was interrupted by protesters who were shouting and spanish, "hillary clinton, you have berta's blood on your hands." >> today we went to protest an event that was appealing to latino communities to support hillary clinton in corona, queens.

we had a banner that said, "hillary has blood on her hands." we were removed by the police immediately. protesters chanting "hillary, we don't forget. hillary, we don't forget." professor frank? >> it is beautiful to see the protest and understand there is a tremendous critique of u.s. policy in honduras that has been going on since the day of the coup that does not get covered at all in the press. amy: why did the u.s. support the coup? >> there is a big question. it is because -- i think it is about the u.s. pushed back against the democratically elected governments of the left and the centerleft that came to power in latin america in the 1990's and the 2000's. venezuela, bolivia, argentina, ecuador, chile, el salvador -- all of these countries. zelaya was the weakesthe did nog

social movement phase of the time of his election, certainly since the coup. i think the u.s. was looking for a way to push back against that. there's a very important military base, u.s. military base, air force base in honduras. honduras as i was been the most captive nation of the united states and latin america. i think they were testing what they could get away with. they got away with it. it was the first domino pushing back against latin america. amy: your final comment, professor frank him in this 2016 presidential election year and in looking at u.s. policy toward latin america and idriss? >> we need to hold hillary clinton responsible if a hotel financial he it is that she would defend a military coup. who is it we're talking about? the second thing is to see this isn't just about hillary clinton, it is about obama, vice

president biden in charge of latin america policy now, and john kerry. they are clearly celebrating and supporting and getting increased funding to the current government of hernandez that is continuing this war against the honduran people. he is a dictator. he is overthrown parts of the supreme court and legally named a new supreme court that is full of allegedly corrupt figures. he backed the coup. a new attorney general. he is admitted to stealing, we don't know the exact amount, into the tens of billions of dollars from the national health service, siphoning off into his own campaign. this is a criminal that we -- the united states is supporting in office. amy: dana frank him a thank you for being with us, professor of history at the university of california santa cruz, expert on human rights and u.s. policy in honduras. we're on the road at stanford university in palo alto,

california. when we come back, we're going to look at u.s. policy toward afghan refugees. and finally, john kerry is the first u.s. sitting secretary of state to go to hiroshima, the side of the only nuclear attack in the world. it was the u.s. atomic bombing of hiroshima. we will look at u.s. policy over the last years. they with us. -- stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. road as part of the 100 city tour of a now at stanford university in palo alto . tonight we will be in santa cruz. by the time the next president takes office in january, u.s. troops will have been in afghanistan for over 15 years. it is already the longest war in history. last week and local authorities had u.s. drone strikes killed 17 civilians. according to the united nations, the number of civilians killed or injured in afghanistan is risen to a record high for the seventh year in a row. united nations said more than 3500 civilians were killed and more than 7400 wounded in 2015. more than 2.5 million afghans are living abroad as refugees. many have attempted to make it to europe were country after

country has closed its borders to new refugees. a controversial new eu turkey plan has just taken effect calling for all newly arriving refugees to be deported back to turkey. today we look at what role the u.s. should be playing in reselling refugees from afghanistan. we're joined now by stanford university historian robert crews. headlined,piece is americans afghan refugee crisis." he wrote -- "over the decades, the united states has not only lacked the capacity to fix afghan society, but has played an essential role in breaking it." he goes on to suggest that the u.s. should fulfill its historic, moral and political responsibility, and enable the "mass resettlement of afghan migrants here." robert crews's director of islamic studies at stanford university, author of several books, most recently, "afghan modern: the history of a global nation." welcome.

talk about what should happen now, the scope of the problem of afghan refugees and what is the u.s. role? >> the united states has approach this problem for over a fairlynow, with some flawed misconceptions about afghan society and afghan politics. by comets about the refugee crisis extends to really a much broader critique of america's approach in afghanistan itself. i think we have been burdened a society that we're dealing with a society that is inherently barbaric and violent, and we feel the see how we in fact have shaped the society and made it what it has become today. our imprint goes back many decades. one can cite the 1980's, our role in 2001, but it is a much broader problem. all series of policy failures. the most important one is a failure of imagination, a failure of the acknowledgment of our responsibility and causing so many have -- causing afghanistan to be the place is

so many hundreds of thousands want to flee. amy: why do you think u.s. settle afghan refugees here? >> we are a large country, relatively wealthy country. we have failed to defeat thetaliban and create a political order that is sustainable. we felt a great condition for any kind of economic stability in the wake of what is mostly an american and nato withdrawal. i think the united states has a responsibility. we of allocated a limited number of visas, roughly 7000, two afghans who have served as translators and guides. it is politicize the whole visa process. i think it has caused some of the figures to be in greater danger. making them even more of a target by their opponents. we have the resources. i think this should be a reminder to americans that when we intervene militarily abroad,

and to perhaps the colin powell doctrine, if you break it, you own it, this should be part of military intervention. amy: in december while we were in paris covering the un's climate summit, democracy now! travel to cale for the largest refugee camp in france where 6000 to 7000 people are camped out in makeshift tents. one of the people we spoke to was najibullah, an afghan national, who said he had worked as an interpreter for seven months with the u.s. marines in afghanistan as well as for several months with a u.s. private contractor called creative international. he had applied for a visa tohe united states, but was denied. i've applied for an immigration visa, because i was working just for seven months, the government refused to give me a visa because they said you

just worked for seven months, not one year. letter from the company that -- as evidence that i worked with them also, so after you put it altogether together, it becomes more than one year. what i'm trying to say, working with the u.s. government, doesn't matter if you work just one day or a year or two years for four years, it doesn't matter to the taliban. as long as you work with them for just one hour, your condemned to death. so that is what happened to me. i was condemned to death. i'm asking u.s. government why they refused me does refused to give me a visa. and that is why i am here.

that is why i am here. i'm facing this difficulty. in athat was najibullah refugee camp known as the jungle, the largest refugee camp in france. there was an entire section of the camp that afghan refugees camped out in. robert crews, so he worked for the u.s. marines. he worked for this contractor creative international, yet he could not get a visa to come to the united states despite the fact that he said if he had worked one hour for the u.s., the taliban would condemn him to death and that is what happened. >> it is clearly a betrayal. i would add, too many afghans are caught in the middle between the taliban and army forces and airstrikes like the one you cited in the east last

week. many more afghans beyond this class of people who have served the military are also entitled to some kind of address because they are living in circumstances beyond their control, but very much shaped by what we have done there. amy: what about this policy that you have to work for a full year or you want to be protected? >> i think it is an extended to a term of two years. amy: two years? >> the numbers are still quite minimal. if you look beyond the special visa program from the number of africans admitted under other conditions is extremely -- very few, just a few hundred people have been admitted per year in the last four or five years. amy: i want to ask about comets by the former cia director michael hayden on drone warfare in a "new york times" opinion piece in february headlined "to keep america safe: embrace drone weight -- warfare." he writes -- "the program is not perfect.

no military program is. but here is the bottom line: it works. i think it fair to say that the targeted killing program has been the most precise and effective application of firepower in the history of armed conflict." he goes on to say -- "civilians have died, but in my firm opinion, the death toll from terrorist attacks would have been much higher if we had not taken action." again, the former head of the cia. >> i would recommend that your viewers and listeners read it. there's a bit of poetry there that is quite remarkable. are military strategies which are also part of the refugees.ry of the the drone strikes to capture lots of civilians, that they may coal towns and villages uninhabitable. they create terror. michael hayden has mirrored the logic of militants around the globe who have failed to distinguish between civilians and combatants. this idea that civilians are dying and fact is improved.

i think we have lots of evidence to the contrary. until the obama administration actually lets us see what is happening, we can only assume the contradictory reports are true and that lots of civilians are dying and these are creating more militants, some security officials maintain. this is part of what is making part of afghanistan and also interior pakistan uninhabitable for lots of areas. >> you have suggested in your writing that afghans now trust the taliban more than they do the afghan military. >> some afghans. some afghans in the south and in the east areas where they have faced foreign military attacks, airstrikes, and faced abuses at the hands of afghan police, afghan militia supported by the united states and central government, and the afghan

national army and police were often corrupt and have employed often very brutal methods in these territories. it is not a broad statement that would apply to all afghans, just applies more limited ways to people in the south and east. a because of the program you would recommend, even if it is unpopular, for afghans coming to the united states, elaborate further. >> sure. i think we are done this with populations of the past, with the iraqis, somalis. in the bay area, we will point to the history of the resettlement of the vietnamese population in the wake of the vietnam war. the afghans who came in the 1980's. these communities have been -- amy: let's look at the vietnamese. after the vietnam war, ultimately resettled 1.3 million southeast asians in countries around the world, including 800,000 in the united states. american, be more

right, then opening our doors to the world and becoming better for it? i think afghans will make somewhat contributions. a brain drain, i have afghan friends who have challenged my perception on this, and i much respect that argument and think there are afghans who will and should stay in the country to help rebuild it, but i don't think that should be a burden that all have to bear equally. what do we say to children who are caught in the crossfire? what we say to the older people who don't have the means to participate in this project? in the end, there will be interest in this program were to be a non-rated, but it is not as if all afghans would leave. but it is not as if all afghans would leave. many would make contributions. we have students here in our graduate program, some of our best students, who were once refugees and now they will be stars in their fields. i think it is very much an american story. amy: and people like donald

trump, ted cruz, talking about people like these as threats does this country that there should be a ban on all muslims coming into the united states? >> in the case of the afghans, because more deeply and shaped how we fight this war. we imagine that afghans are particularly barbaric and uslike and that has forced to make certain decisions in the country. we imagine -- afghans as a force. in the book, i attempt to challenge how i came to be and to point to alternatives. we have misunderstood afghans. they're quite cosmopolitan. they have developed the world. they can adapt everywhere. there's nothing necessarily violent about their nature. that is free much a political story that we share the goes back many years. amy: robert crews, thank you for

"afghanth us, author of modern: the history of a global nation." he is associate professor of history and director of the sohaib and sara abbasi program in islamic studies at stanford university. when we come back, we turn to the news of john kerry going to hiroshima, the first sitting u.s. secretary of state to do this. is he paving the way for president obama to go to hiroshima? the site of the was atomic bombing back in 1945? stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: we are on the road in california. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are on a 100 city tour, now a stanford university in palo alto, california, heading to santa cruz tonight, then we will be in los angeles tomorrow night and heading through northern california on the weekend. on monday, we will be in salt lake city. we will be celebrating community media around the country. on monday, john kerry became the

first secretary of state to visit hiroshima, the japanese city destroyed by a u.s. nuclear bomb on august 6, 1945. three days later, the u.s. dropped another nuclear bomb on the city of nagasaki. hundreds of thousands of japanese people were killed last of the united states is the only country to ever drop an atomic on. kerry toured the hiroshima peace memorial and museum but offered no apology for the u.s. nuclear attack. he said hiroshima was a gut-wrenching reminder the world should abandon nuclear weapons. >> going through this museum was a reminder of the depth of obligation at every single one of us in public life carries, in fact, every person position of responsibility carries, to work for peace, to continue the efforts that president obama and other leaders came together to talk about in washington a few days at the nuclear security summit. to create and pursue a world

free from nuclear weapons. amy: earlier this month, president obama hosted more than 50 world leaders for h fourth and final nuclear security summit focused on efforts to lock down vulnerable atomic materials to prevent nuclear terrorism. obama inaugurated the summit nearly six years ago, after a 2009 speech in prague laying out the goal of a world free of nuclear weapons. despite both obama and john kerry's remarks, the united states has been quietly upgrading its nuclear arsenal to create smaller, more precise nuclear bombs as part of a massive effort that will cost up to $1 trillion over three decades. well, a new report by the alliance for nuclear accountability details the government's nuclear proliferation plan. for more, we're joined by one of the reports authors. it is titled "trillion dollar , trainwreck: out-of-control u.s. nuclear weapons programs accelerate spending, proliferation, health and safety risks." marylia kelley is executive director of tri-valley cares, or

communities against a radioactive environment, a partner organization with the alliance for nuclear accountability. welcome to democracy now! talk about the significance of john kerry being the first sitting u.s. secretary of state to go to hiroshima. >> symbolism is important, so we certainly support that and but it obama going, can't be near symbolism and photo op. kerry went empty-handed. the united states needs to go with a concrete plan to roll back its own nuclear weapons program. you cannot preach abstinence in terms of nuclear weapons from the biggest are still in the room. -- biggest barstool in the room. that hean announcement

will cancel a new warhead a new cruise missile, together they are called the long-range standoff weapon. as you noted, there is $1 trillion plan over the next 30 years to upgrade every single part of the united states nuclear weapons stockpile. and right now as we are speaking, at livermore lab an hour, an hour and 15 minutes from here, they are designing a new warhead of particularly destabilizing new warhead to sit atop a new cruise missile. this long-range standoff weapons , if you think about what that name means, it means that an airplane will be able to standoff its intended target by thousands of miles, launch a smart nuclear weapon that will hug the terrain and be radar-evading, and arrive as a

surprise to their attack -- nuclear attack. it is a weapon that goes beyond deterrence, no matter what you may think of deterrence, positively or negatively, it goes beyond deterrence. this is about nuclear war fighting. this is about potentially initiating a nuclear war. additionally, the conventional version and the nuclear version will be indistinguishable. so if it is picked up on radar, a country will not know whether it is being attacked by nuclear or conventional weapon will stop and that could trigger a nuclear response if it is a nuclear armed state. so we are actually in a very am a very dangerous place. in the united states is initiating a new nuclear arms the other nuclear arms states, of course, when they look at our "modernization

program" are beginning their own. so we need this to be rolled back. if obama goes to hiroshima, he needs to use that as an opportunity not to speak empty promises and rhetoric about an eventual world free of nuclear weapons, but to make concrete proposals about how the united states is going to take steps in that direction and how we are going to change course. because right now, we're taking giants depth in the opposite direction. amy: what is the $1 trillion trainwreck, marylia kelley? >> it is a plan that would upgrade every single nuclear weapon in the u.s. arsenal. it will design new nuclear weapons. i talked about the long-range standoff warhead. we are also designing a new nuclear bomb that will be for deployed in nato countries called the b-6112. it is getting a new tail fin kit

so it will become the first gravity dropped bomb that becomes a guided nuclear weapon. there are new options being put into nuclear weapons. submarine-launched icbm's, land-based launched, all legs of the triad. new heights ofg first option. they are getting new position options. they're getting new dial options. amy: what is the alternative? >> the alternative is to cancel this aggressive new nuclear weapons program and we can curate the united states nuclear weapons stockpile, maintaining the existing safety and reliability until such time as the nuclear weapons are dismantled, pursuant to its obligations under the nonproliferation treaty. and the world is gathering in may, next month, may 2, in

geneva. the united nations. to discuss the steps to doing this and to discuss the legal requirements of global disarmament, and the united states is boycotting. amy: boycotting why? >> the united states is boycotting it because it doesn't believe these discussions are useful or productive. but of course, they're the most important discussions on the planet. and we need to close the legal gap and we need to actually get the united states and all of the other nuclear weapons states to live up to their obligations under the not liberation treaty. amy: marylia kelley, we will have a link to your report at democracynow.org. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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