- [voiceover] funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. also by hillco partners, a texas government affairs consultancy. and by the alice kleberg reynolds foundation. - i'm evan smith, she's a comedian and an actress whose credits include mr. show with bob and david, the larry sanders show and, most memorably, 24 and its miniseries reboot, 24: live another day. she's mary lynn rajskub, this is overheard. - [evan voiceover] let's be honest, is this about the ability to learn, or is this about the experience of not having been taught properly? how have you avoided what has befallen other nations in africa... you could say that he made his own bed, but you caused him to sleep in it. now you saw a problem and, over time, took it on and... let's start with the sizzle before we get to the steak. are you gonna run for president? i think i just got an "f" from you.

this is overheard. - [evan] mary lynn, welcome. - [mary lynn] hi. - [both] nice to see you. - very nice to meet you. so, i'm catching you now as you're out on tour doing stand-up, which you do a fair amount of these days. - yes. thank you for catching me. - [evan] well, happy to catch you. - everybody coming here at the last minute... - [evan] thank you for being caught. - [mary lynn] it's exciting. - [evan] good to have you. - many of us know you through the front door as an actress. we know you from 24 or some of the other stuff you've done. you've been a comedian for a long time. do you self-define these days as a comedian who acts or as an actress who does stand-up? - it's hard to say at this point. i don't really know. - maybe there's no one or the other, it's both. - yeah, i kind of change once i get on the road. last time...i just got into austin, so things haven't gotten too crazy yet. last night was pretty mellow, but i was just in atlanta, and when i landed, i called my husband, "i miss you, i don't know what i'm doing, "why am i doing this?" and, then had a great show, and i don't usually

go out that much, and then the comedians were like, "come out with us!" and then ended up going out, having a crazy night. - [evan] yeah, it's a scene. you enjoy it, still. you've been doing this a long time, but you still enjoy it. - i enjoy it, it's just the transition between, "why am i doing this?" and then, once i'm on the road and doing it, there's really nothing like it. - and is it possible to do both at the same time? can you act during the day and then do stand-up at night? or do you have to take off a period of time to do a season of 24 when you're filming? - that's a good question. the last installment of 24, we were in london for five months, and even preparing to go to london was sort of like you're mentally in the space of 24. and we were bringing the show back after four years. and so... even though i did have down time, enough time to go do stand-up, i was really focused on that. but by the end of my five months in london, if i knew i was gonna have a stretch of days off,

and going to comedy rooms and stuff like that. - ready to get back in front of an audience. - yeah. - a lot of people who do comedy, and especially these days where people talk a lot about the things that influenced them as a kid, they'll say, "well, i listened to george carlin's records as a kid," or "steve martin," or "andy kaufman." and, my understanding of your backstory here is that you didn't necessarily think, as a kid, "i wanna be a a comedian, i wanna do stand-up." you don't necessarily have that same story. - no, no, not at all. if anything, it was more of, "i want to be an actor." but i didn't even really think that. i didn't really have the capacity to think that i was somebody who could do something like that. you hear that a lot from people, maybe, "i didn't know that was a possibility," or, especially with comedy, i just thought, "i'm female, i'm kind of odd, "i'm kind of an interior person." and comedy was something where it was mostly a guy talking about his thoughts and being real... - right, extroverted.

- extroverted, but as time went on, it started with me doing performance art, and then people... my performance art was always performer-audience based and i started getting laughter in places where i didn't necessarily intend to get laughter. - sometimes good, sometimes not, right? - exactly, and then i kind of started intersecting with my art school performance art world in san francisco with other comedians, and that was sort of a good... i like how you called acting the "front door." it was a good back door into comedy in that it wasn't so intimidating. it was the same for me with acting. i moved to los angeles to do live performance. if i had gone there thinking, "i'm gonna do this, "i have my head shots, i've changed my name." i would have known that i was gonna do it... - no, no, raskjub is awesome. i wouldn't actually... it's good. how many raskjubs are there, right? - [mary lynn] no. my family. - [evan] not very many.

- so, let's come to san francisco in a second. so, family...so you grew up in detroit. - [mary lynn] yes, yes. - [evan] in a suburb of detroit...family is not in the entertainment business. - absolutely not. - they must have thought, "how'd you end up...?" for them, this thought that you wanted to do what you're doing now must have been an interesting thing. - i did some acting as a kid, and definitely in high school. - like community plays and theater... - yeah, and in high school it really was the only thing that i could focus on or had any interest in, and thankfully there was a pretty decent theater program at the school. so they supported me in having that interest and they certainly love what's happened, and it's been really exciting for them. - but it wasn't an obvious choice for you as a kid, given the environment in which you grew up, or the place you grew up. detroit in those days, a little bit of a different detroit, maybe a more optimistic detroit than there is now, right? - yeah, i don't know, depending on who you talk to. i haven't really been back in detroit properly in the city for a while, but some people say

there's a great art scene there now, which i would like to go and check out. lots of stuff happening, and hopefully a rebirth at some point. - the city's coming back. you went to art school in detroit first, before going at san francisco. - [mary lynn] yes. different experience than being out in the west coast? - absolutely, i mean, i love detroit a lot. that was a really exciting time in my life because i kind of went to art school because i wasn't a good student, i didn't... study very much. college wasn't...i just thought, "ehh, i don't wanna do that, "i'm gonna have to take subjects over again "that i was never interested in the first place, "or i'm gonna have to get a job." so i found art school just to - [evan] perfect pause. - [mary lynn] to not have to do any of those, and i thought, "oh, let me try to draw something, "and get a portfolio," not really knowing what i was doing, and once i got in there, it was just like,

it spoke to my heart in bigger ways. - it took immediately. what a sculpture was, so it was really exciting to get a basic understanding of everything. and being in detroit was really fun. but there was a lot of, like, "found scrap metal object" art making. there was one class where we had to document churches that were falling apart in detroit. - [evan] uplifting. - [mary lynn] very uplifting. - so you made the decision to go west, because you thought, "maybe there'll be a different vibe out there." - yes, and i loved san francisco immediately. it's such a gorgeous place, and that was just really exciting and fun for me. i just rode the bus for fun, you know. - see the environment out there.

i'm interested in what you said about the performance art giving way to what became comedy, or even "alternative comedy" is the phrase that we hear. you were part of a scene out there of people... we talked before about patton oswalt, somebody who you saw early, and who actually has recently, in his book, documented what that scene was like at the time, both in the bay area and then migrating down to los angeles. seems like a really exciting time, and a lot of really great people came out of that comedy world. - it really was, i feel very lucky because i was meeting comedians in san francisco, because a lot of comedy clubs were closing, but the alternative scenes were starting, so they were mixing with local poets. and it was patton oswalt, greg behrendt, and then a group of people said, "we're going to la to do live shows." and i had no reason to go or not to go. i just thought, "well, that sounds fun, and "that's what i'm interested in doing... - that's the next thing to do. - [mary lynn] live shows." and it was jack black,

and david cross, and will ferrell, just tons of people, it was a really amazing scene. into that group at that time. - how did your style develop? you are not the sort of person i imagine writing a bunch of jokes and then going out on stage and then, tell a joke. your personality is particular, and your comedy is particular. so how did your own understanding of your own version of comedy develop? - well, in la at that time, it was a great time to do comedy because everybody, the comedians... like patton oswalt, he was very polished, and he knew how to be funny, but in these smaller rooms, people were much more personal and the comedy was more storytelling and it was more therapeutic, almost. you would see comedians saying things that they would never have the opportunity to say in a comedy club where it was all about the joke and all about competing to be the best in that environment.

so that's what was really exciting to me, was that people, those moments between the joke where you see somebody's personality, and a lot of the shows at that time were all people's personality. but for me in particular, i was just really... socially... kind of terrified, but for some reason, i was really drawn and compelled to perform. i think, looking back, it was sort of my own neuroses. i needed to do that in order...not to survive, not to be that dramatic, but it really was something i couldn't really...my personality is probably more of a painter, but i really needed to communicate and be around people. - it was an outlet for you. - it was an outlet in more ways than one. i was driven by needing the social scene and needing the creativity and needing the expression. - were you influenced by anybody?

i'm trying to think about an equivalent to your style... steven wright, somebody who was more of an observational person, who kind of comes at things from the side rather than the way you'd imagine. i'm trying to think about if there are people who you might have seen as influences or people who maybe you might have admired at that time and thought, "well this is the kind of comedy i enjoy." - i was very much influenced by the people that were around me at that time. - right, your contemporaries. - we'd talk backstage, it was karen kilgariff and janeane garofalo and all the people we just mentioned. that was so exciting, to see people doing things that were out of the box and doing stuff because they felt like doing it, you know? - jumping ahead now, i think about it, a lot of the people you've mentioned have gone on to be very mainstream big successes. will ferrell's the obvious example of that, janeane garofalo, david cross, karen kilgariff, there were a number of other people who were associated with that scene in san francisco or los angeles who went on to be part of either mr. show or the ben stiller show.

before that, some of the people who were associated later with larry sanders, as you were, that's some extraordinary comedy you're mining. those people, and to see how that scene has become kind of the mainstream scene...it's been a real transition. and of course, you ended up on one of the most popular network shows of our lifetimes, right? - [mary lynn] yes, that was... - [evan] hard to imagine? - also, unexpected. - something you didn't necessarily set out to do. - i was around for a lot of those early mr. shows. i don't know how much it really happens like this anymore, with the internet and people filming their own things and having the ability to quickly do that, but it was bob odenkirk and david cross doing live shows to test the material that would become that tv show. and they would throw me in there and i was almost kind of like a mascot, i didn't really know what was going on. i loved performing, but i almost feel like it's only now that i'm a more well-rounded person

and kind of putting together the pieces of... it's not all some big experimental art piece. - but if you look back at the chaos that was the basis for that show, as you describe it, it actually held together remarkably well and really was something. and people generally regarded it, i know there was a rolling stones story that talked about it as one of the greatest sketch comedy shows of all time. - no, yeah, those guys were brilliant. - look at how influential it was on so much else. - absolutely, i think i was very chaotic in my own approach, i didn't really know what was going on. those guys were always brilliant and very focused and kind of magical together, worked very hard to make that. - i wanna ask you about larry sanders because that still looms large in everyone's mind, and you know you had a great opportunity there. and i wanna ask about how you got 24 and the experience of making that program, because again, we have all now kind of embraced long format, episodic television, that kind of a drama you can throw a rock and hit one

these days on television and off. 24 was kind of revolutionary in its own way at the time that it came on. talk about larry sanders. how daunting it must be to be with some of those guys, shanlding and rip torn and tambor and all those guys who are just amazing, even back then. - it really was, and i feel very lucky that i was sort of able to learn on the job. per episode, i would have a scene or two, or three, maybe, so it was just enough to keep me from not completely freaking out and melting down because i really was learning while i was doing it. i remember i just learned so much about acting and comedy. there was one moment where gary shandling said to me, it was some line of, "yeah, i'm gonna do that later." some normal line, and he looked at me and said, "what are you thinking?"

and i said, "i was thinking, i'll do that later." kind of just thinking just what i said. he's like, "no, well, but what else are you thinking about?" he just called me out in that moment, and i sort of never looked back. he was telling me about subtext, which is the bedrock of being a good actor is that maybe you have other things going on inside of you other than the thing that you're saying, and he completely recognized that i didn't have any other intentions or thoughts or feelings in that moment, and... again, i had already filmed a couple takes, and so... - just changed everything. - it was really fun for me. and i had a proclivity for that, so i was going in the right direction, i just was very untrained. - so how did you get from that to 24? if you think about mr. show and larry sanders, they're both subversive shows, and they're clearly comedy shows.

24, subversive in its own way, but the exact opposite of those shows. - it's funny, because a lot of places i go, people only know me from 24. i recently, a few years ago, did a guest spot on modern family, and one of the creators, i said, "i think i know him from years ago, "and i don't know if he knows me. "i know they know me enough to give me this job." and he came and he sat down next to me and he goes, "now, can you believe you were on 24?" and that was the way he said hi to me, and i just had a good laugh because... - he knew you from the old days. - yeah, and there's a lot of people in the business that are now sort of, "oh, she's doing comedy again," because there's a huge chunk of time where i was just something completely different. - [evan] you were just chloe. so, how did that happen? how did it come to you, and how did you decide you wanted to do it? - i got a call from my agent and she said, "they want to read you for this."

and i rarely got drama auditions, and i had recently had a horrible drama audition. i think it was for csi or something... for like, you know, abused woman. - [evan] dead body. - [mary lynn] dead whatever. it's weird because it's not that i... i believed in my ability, but it's almost the transition of coming into the audition room, and once i did the part i believe i was good and fine, but it was walking in the room and going, "hey guys, so this woman in the scene is all..." i'm sure they were like, "what is wrong with this girl?" i was just being probably silly and uncomfortable and odd, and they were all so serious, and the part was so serious, and i thought, "well that was horrible, and "i don't wanna do that again." - not gonna get it, it's gonna be fine. - and so my agent said, "they really wanna see you."

and i said, "ah, it's hot today. "i don't wanna drive. "i just had this csi thing." and she said, "they really wanna see you." (sigh) okay. so, it's the next day and i watch two or three... and i started season 3 - [evan] you came in season 3, you were not there in the beginning. - so it was already kind of a thing, so i crammed as many episodes as i could before the meeting, and i go in there, and joel surnow, the creator, he meets me in the hallway. this never happens, and again it's one of these awesome...he says, "well, i think you're great, and "we wanna write a write a part for you." - we're gonna write a part for you. and there was a part on the page, but really there was nothing to it yet because every time they start a new season, they've gotta cast the whole...each different plot line they have a cast of characters, and there's always new people in the ctu, and so it was just, "yes, jack." "no, jack."

and i said, "well, thank you, i can go home now. "you just validated me whether..." i didn't believe it was gonna happen necessarily, but really, as an actor, you're like, "great, that's gonna keep me going for another year or two." the fact that someone would even say that because you don't know if it's gonna happen or not. and we're talking and he says, "so, what do you think of the show?" i said, "i think it's great." he said, "you don't really watch the show, do you?" because he knew that once people watch it, they love it, and since i had just watched a few episodes to kind of cram it i was like, "yes, it's a fantastic show." and he called me out, he knew. "but you're not really a 24 fan." and i was like, "no, i just watched it last night." so he had seen me in a movie called punch-drunk love, directed by paul thomas anderson, and i play a bossy overbearing sister to adam sandler and he liked that quality, that special quality that i had, and...

i think it was... - that may have been the best thing that came out of that whole movie, right? it's a pretty good movie. - i like the movie. - but look what it did. so he liked that, and he said, "i want mary lynn for this show." and they didn't imagine this as a character who would be on the show for... - [mary lynn] absolutely not. - [evan] you had the most episodes of any character in the history of the show other than jack. - it's amazing. - [evan] other than kiefer sutherland. - and when i started it was like, "okay, we want you to do two episodes." "okay, we want you to do four episodes." and it was like that for a good three, four years. - no guarantee it was gonna keep going. - no. what's kiefer sutherland like? did you enjoy working with him? - [mary lynn] yeah. - [evan] you know, his reputation is kind of big... what did you think about working with him? - he's great, he's one of those guys who... we all know his history as an actor. he's somebody who has the pedigree and the dedication, and he comes out of a certain school of acting. i really learned a lot from him about how to...

he's a star, he's the star of the show. he drives that show, he's the real thing. and for somebody like me, i tend to try to avoid things or, even things that i love, i'm just like, "nyuh, we'll see about that." and he's somebody who really jumps into it, and really has a dedication, and he sets the pace for that show, and i think that's a really... that's a really hard character to be, if you think about it, because half of 24 is... i don't wanna say ridiculous, it's an amazing show, half of it is like, unbelievable. - it's fantastical. - it's fantastical. you're like, "no way would that ever happen." the other half is rooted in real things that are happening. and he rides that line. - he threw himself fully into every episode. - but in a sense that he didn't... i don't know quite how to articulate it, but it's not like he...you believe him as that guy. he's not over the top, and he's not too understated.

he knows how to play it, and i think there's very few people that can pull that off. - except that you made that character you, and indistinguishable from you, and in fact, we've talked to you for a short little time here, you get a sense of the personality that you have and the personality of the characters are not that different. - [mary lynn] really? - don't you think you made that character to be more like you? - yes. - was the character necessarily written to be that way? or did it just basically happen because of how you evolved it? - they wrote to me, and i did my version of what i would be like if i were a computer genius who could save the world from a terrorist attack. - right, nothing big, no. but if you go back to the time you were in art school, or the performance art you did, or the comedy scene on the west coast, would you have imagined that this would have been the part that would have been the defining part? - [mary lynn] never. - [evan] you would agree that is the defining part of your career? - [mary lynn] yes. - [evan] people probably see you on the street and, if they're gonna yell anything, they'll probably yell, "chloe." - absolutely. - you're comfortable with that, you're good with that? - sure, what am i gonna do?

- well, nothing. it wasn't the answer exactly that i was looking for. but that's okay. - i'm learning, i'm learning. - we have a couple minutes left. so tv has been a big part of your... you've done a bunch of parts in movies... - that was the worst...i give the worst answers. - no, that's okay, it's fine. i just keep going. - i'm such a petulant child, "yeah, i dunno. "what do you think?" i'll work on that. - we'll just edit that out in post. - for my oscars speech, "yeah, cool, you guys. i guess." - you're continuing to work in tv, or what passes for tv. you had mentioned that you had just done a pilot for amazon. - [mary lynn] yes. - [evan] i guess that's tv. right? do we think of amazon and netflix - [mary lynn] sure is. - [evan] ...and hulu and all those non-connected, cable-corded shows as tv? - in hollywood, in the world of getting acting jobs, it's as much tv as anything else. - in fact, if you look at the award nominations, which you know are worth basically the statues that are produced for them, so what?

but it's all netflix and amazon and a lot of the cable programs that maybe once upon a time wouldn't have been thought to be... - right, from my end as an actor and a performer you look for interesting, good material that has integrity, and then you hope for eyeballs on it. obviously you hope the project comes together, and then you want viewers, so that's the interesting part for me. i loved working with amazon. they really took time and care to put together all the aspects of it. we'll see how it comes out, we'll see if people watch it. - and the principal creative force behind that program was somebody who had been connected with the film nebraska. - yes, the writer of the pilot wrote the movie nebraska, the directors...the husband and wife team that directed little miss sunshine, and it's about a kid who sees imaginary people. he's 19 years old.

i play his mother, chris parnell plays his father, and we're very well-meaning, and we don't know whether to have him committed or not, and we support him but we let him know he's not normal, and... - i'm guessing it's a comedy. - it's a comedy, it's a very dry comedy. but the people that he's talking to, you see them as an audience member, you see what he sees, so it was shaquille o'neal and flea... actually, i don't know if i'm supposed to be saying this or not...you'll cut this out if i'm going to get in trouble, right? - [evan] nobody on pbs knows who flea is except for you and me, so it's okay. - i think that's supposed to be a surprise announcement for later, i got carried away. with the relaxed atmosphere here. - i like you carried away, that's good. mary lynn raskjub, great to have a chance to talk to you and fun to go back and listen to your stories. - thank you. thanks for having me. - good luck with everything you're doing. mary lynn raskjub, thanks very much. - [voiceover] we'd love to have you join us in the studio. visit our website at klru.org/overheard

to find invitations to interviews, q and a's with our audience and guests, and an archive of past episodes. - the fictional tv show that's in californication, i play a writer on that show, and i was surrounded by men, and i really hated men, and instead of being nude and having sex like everybody does on that show i got to trade that for vomiting, so that was a really... - [voiceover] funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. also by hillco partners, a texas government affairs consultancy. and by the alice keberg reynolds foundation.