12/30/16 12/30/16 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> here is a fundamental reality. if the choice is one state, israel can either be jewish or democratic. it cannot be both. and it won't ever really be at peace. amy: secretary of state john kerry rebukes israeli settlements and defense to state solution, but did the speech come too late and the obama administration to make a difference? we will speak to israeli journalist gideon levy and the palestinian lawyer diana buttu,

former advisor to the palestinian president abbas. into ava duvernay plus dr. henry nermeen." >> there are exceptions including criminal. quick the loophole was immediately exploited. what you got after that was a rapid transition to a mythology of black criminality. amy: we will speak with ava duvernay. she became the first black female director to have her film nominated for the academy award for best picture for "selma." "13th" is on the oscar shortlist for best documentary. >> is the jumping off point for conversation of -- a wide-ranging conversation that gives you a tour through the history of racism, oppression,

and subjugation in this country as it relates to the criminal justice system. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president barack obama on thursday ordered the expulsion of 35 russian diplomats whom he accused them of spying. he slapped new sanctions on russian agencies he accused of meddling in november's u.s. election. he ordered the closure of two russian owned estates, one on long island, together in maryland, the white house says were used to gather intelligence. these sanctions came as the obama administration made public a 13-page document produced by the fbi and the department of homeland security outlining the government's charges of how russian hackers penetrated u.s. institutions in a bid to undermine the campaign of hillary clinton. russia responded angrily to the sanctions, saying initially it would expel 35 usc limits in

return. this is russian foreign minister sergei lavrov. >> we cannot leave such steps unanswered. ministry,n foreign together with our colleagues from other agencies, propose to the president of the russian 31 staffn to declare members of the u.s. embassy in moscow and four diplomats from the u.s. consulate general in st. petersburg persona non grata. amy: following this comments, vladimir putin said he would hold off on expelling diplomats for now and will wait to see if u.s. attitudes toward russia change after donald trump's inauguration in january. these sanctions drew widespread bipartisan support among members of congress will step during a church alyssa when you thursday, south carolina republican senator lindsey graham said they

did not go far enough. >> i think the sanctions [indiscernible] they need to name putin as an individual. amy: president-elect donald trump continued to downplay charges on thursday that russian hackers interfered in november's election. trump said in a short statement that he would meet with top intelligence advisers next week for a briefing on russia, but said the country should move on to "bigger and better things." the statement echoed comments trump made wednesday during an impromptu press conference at his mar-a-lago estate. at trump's side was former boxing promoter and convicted killer don king, who waved a bundle of national flags as trump took questions. >> what you think generally about sanctions? mr. trump: i think we ought to get on with our lives. i think that computers have complicated our lives rightly. the whole age of computer has made it where nobody knows

exactly what is going on. i'm not sure we have -- [indiscernible] amy: donald trump spoke for several minutes host up it has been described as his first news conference is since november's election. in syria, a ceasefire appears to be holding, after the russian, iranian, and turkish-brokered truce came into effect at midnight. there were reports of fighting in the early morning hours before guns and mortars fell silent. russian president vladimir putin touted the agreement as a major turning point in the nearly six-year-old civil war. >> three documents have been signed. the first document is between the syrian government and the armed opposition on a cease-fire on the territory of the syrian arab republic. the second is a complex of measures to control the cease-fire. the third is a statement of readiness to start these talks

answering reconciliation. amy: the u.s. did not participate in crafting the agreement. it is not clear how many of the dozens agreed to the deal. it does not include isis or the organization formerly known as the al-nusra front. turkey's military said russian and turkish warplanes bombed isis positions near al-bab on friday, killing 38 fighters. in turkey, a parliamentary commission has approved draft constitutional amendments that would abolish the office of the prime minister and give president recep tayyip erdogan more powers. the changes are supported by erdogan's party and are expected to be approved by lawmakers. it's the latest effort by erdogan to consolidate his rule since turkish officers launched an unsuccessful coup attempt last july. erdogan has since jailed scores of journalists and pursued a brutal government crackdown aimed at kurdish militants. amnesty international estimates a half million people have been displaced by the conflict in turkey's southeast. in india, at least nine miners are dead and two more are feared trapped under mud after lance

lied -- landslide at an open-pit coal mine in the country's east. rescuers said their efforts to reach the miners were delayed for hours due to bad weather and poor visibility. india is the world's third-largest producer of coal and is on track to overtake the u.s. in coal consumption by 2030. in charleston, south carolina, convicted mass murderer dylan roof told a judge wednesday he won't call witnesses or give evidence in his own defense, when a jury returns next week to determine if he'll receive the death penalty. roof is acting in his own defense after he fired his legal team. he was convicted earlier this month on 33 counts of federal hate crimes for murdering nine black worshipers, including pastor clementa pinckney, at the historic emanuel ame church in june 2015. meanwhile, a charleston court has scheduled a march 1 retrial of michael slager, a white former north charleston police officer who's accused of murdering a black man during a traffic stop. earlier this month, a judge declared a mistrial after a

single juror refused to convict slager of murder, even though video clearly shows him shooting 50-year-old walter scott in the back. last year, slager and dylann roof were held in adjacent cells in charleston's jail. in missouri, a law set to take effect with the new year will allow felony charges to be brought against children who get into fistfights on school buses or on school property. under the statute, students caught fighting could face third-degree assault charges and up to four years in prison, regardless of their age or grade level. critics say missouri's new law will worsen the state's school-to-prison pipeline and will disproportionately affect african americans. last year, a study by ucla's center for civil rights remedies found black elementary school children in missouri are suspended at higher rates than in any other state. in arkansas, prosecutors seeking evidence against a man charged

with murder have obtained a warrant to receive data from his amazon echo -- a voice-activated device that is always listening and often recording. james andrew bates says he's innocent of the murder of victor collins, who was found strangled in bates' hot tub. prosecutors hope to search audio recordings on bates' amazon echo for clues. lawyers for amazon have refused to comply with the warrant, and technology experts say it's unlikely the device was recording at the time of the murder. but the case has drawn national attention and alarmed civil liberties groups. bates' lawyer, kimberly weber, told "usa today" -- "i have a problem that a christmas gift that is supposed to better your life can be used against you. it's almost like a police state." in the philippines, president rodrigo duterte said this week he was prepared to throw corrupt corrupt officials out of a helicopter -- a practice he said he's personally done before.

>> if you are corrupt, i will fetch you to manila using a helicopter and i will throw you out. i have done this before. why would i not do it again? amy: it's the latest claim by the philippines president to have personally committed murder. earlier this month, duterte said that while mayor of davao city he patrolled city streets on a motorcycle looking for opportunities to kill. as the philippines president duterte has launched a brutal , so-called war on drugs that has seen thousands of people killed by police and vigilantes since the summer. in mexico, lawmakers are weighing whether to legalize medical marijuana in a move that could have big implications for a drug war that's killed more than 100,000 mexicans over the last decade. on december 13, mexico's senate overwhelmingly approved a bill that would allow the cultivation of marijuana for medical use and scientific study. the lower house of mexico's congress will now consider the measure. the debate comes in the wake of november's u.s. election, which saw voters in massachusetts, maine, nevada and california join washington and colorado in

allowing the use of recreational pot. this is mexican senator roberto zuarth. >> mexico needs to move forward and soon. we need to resolve this debate. it doesn't make any sense for us to continue with all of these deaths while in the united states, these of marijuana is legal. especially because the trafficking of marijuana to the united states market represents approximately 40% of criminal gangs. it is a lot of money in this money is used to finance other kinds of illicit activities. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. secretary of state john kerry has blasted israel's government, saying in a major address that the relentless expansion of jewish settlements in the occupied west bank threatens

israel's democracy and has all but ended the prospect of a two-state solution with the palestinians. >> despite our best efforts over the years, the two state solution is now in serious jeopardy. the truth is that trends on the ground, violence, terrorism, incitement, settlement expansion, the seemingly endless occupation, they are combining to destroy hopes for peace on both sides and increasingly cementing and irreversible one state reality that most people do not actually want. amy: secretary kerry's speech followed intense israeli criticism of the u.s. for refusing to veto a u.n. security council resolution last week. the measure condemns israel's expansion of settlements a flagrant violation of international law. the resolution passed and a 14-0 vote.

kerry insisted the u.s. had not abandoned its long-time ally but said israeli democracy would not survive under a single state. >> but here is a fundamental reality. if the choice is one state, israel can either be jewish or democratic, it cannot be both. and it won't ever really be at peace. juan: in the west bank, palestinian president mahmoud abbas said he was willing to resume peace talks in exchange for a halt to settlement construction. this is chief palestinian negotiator saeb erekat. >> mr. netanyahu knows very well he has the choice -- settlements or peace. he can't have both. settlements are illegal under international law. there in violation of international law. settlements are the antidote for two state solution. amy: in israel, prime minister benjamin netanyahu's reaction to john kerry's speech was swift and harsh. >> id disappointment with the

speech today of john kerry. a speech that was almost as unbalanced as the anti-israel resolution passed at the u.n. last week. israel looks forward to working with president-elect trump and with the american congress -- democrats and republicans alike -- to mitigate the damage that this resolution has done and ultimately to repeal it. juan: meanwhile, donald trump took to twitter to blast kerry's speech, writing in a pair of tweets -- "we cannot continue to let israel be treated with such total disdain and disrespect. they used to have a great friend in the u.s., but not anymore. the beginning of the end was the horrible iran deal, and now this! u.n., state strong israel, january 20th is fast approaching!" on capitol hill, lawmakers in both parties blasted kerry's address. south carolina republican senator lindsey graham called it

delusional, while new york democratic senator chuck schumer said kerry had "emboldened extremists on both sides." amy: well, for more, we're joined by two guests. in haifa, israel, we're joined by diana buttu. she is an attorney based in palestine who has served as a legal advisor to the palestinians in negotiations with israel. buttu was previously an advisor to palestinian president mahmoud abbas. and in tel aviv we're joined by , gideon levy, a ha'aretz columnist and a member of the newspaper's editorial board. his new article is titled, "u.n. resolution is a breath of hope in sea of darkness and despair." he is also the author of "the punishment of gaza." we welcome you both to democracy now! diana buttu, let's begin with you. your response to this resolution? isthis is a resolution that good on its face, except what it requires is the international

community to actually follow up with it. what i think is important to remember is that these types of resolutions have been issued by all of the u.s. and ministrations with even president reagan not abstaining from this resolution, but voting in favor of it. what really needs to happen now is sanctions need to be imposed on israel. it cannot be allowed to continue its colonization of the west bank for yet another 50 years. messageust be sent the they cannot continue to defy international law. there will be a price to be paid. , your responsevy to the vote in the united nations, especially to kerry's speech this week? >> both too little, both are too late. say, better late than never. i think the main importance is for the israeli public opinion is a wake-up call. the last wake-up call -- maybe

even too late, too remind the israelis that the world is very, very clear about the settlements. that the united day not in the pocket of israel, as we used to think in the recent years -- rightly so. and above all, it doesn't go together, settlements and peace. settlements and justice. settlements and being a democracy. this is the message -- i hope, at least, some of the israeli public opinion will start to think about it. amy: i want to go back to the u.s. secretary of state john kerry's speech. he described the many ways the obama administration has supported israel over the years. >> time and again, we have demonstrated that we have israel's back. opposedstrongly boycott, the investment campaigns. whenever and wherever his legitimacy was attacked and we had fought for its inclusion

across the u.n. system. in the midst of our own financial crisis, a budget deficit, we repeatedly increased funding to support israel. in fact, more than one half of our entire global foreign military financing goes to israel. and this fall, we concluded and is stored memorandum of understanding that exceeds any military assistance package the united states has provided to any country at any time. amy: so that is the secretary of state. gideon levy in tel aviv, this is not how all of this is being portrayed. that it may be unusual for president obama to abstain from a between of a vote on israel, but as diana buttu just said, going back to reagan -- in fact,

when samantha power, the was abbasid or to the u.n. began her speech, she quoted reagan who have been involved with a number of resolutions that criticized israel, and that went right up through republican and democratic president. and here you have john kerry talking about this unprecedented, historic military years.38 billion over 10 can you talk about whether president obama has been, whether in manner, in fact, friendlier to israel than any previous president since reagan? amy, you may call it friendly, i would call it very hostile. supply israel with more drugs just to get israel satisfied, is not friendship. it is hostility.

really president obama sought israel with carrots. we know right now the last thing you could do with israel is treat israel with carrots. israel learned in those eight years of obama, more than ever before, that it can do whatever it wants. the united states is still in its pockets. many times when you're watching the relations between israel, the united states in the recent years, one could even ask yourself, who is the superpower between the two? who is the friend of whom here? as was written today in "the new york times," you don't supply a driver with more alcohol. you do not let him drive drunk. obama let israel drive trump. juan: diana buttu, i want to ask you, abbas has said he is

willing to resume negotiations of the settlements stop, but you have that israel is not really interested in peace. can you explain that? >> what israel wants is it wants to have the farce of having a diplomatic process and bilateral negotiations because what that does is it gives israel a lot of support from the international community. we saw that during the period of oslo, they got more money in its coffers as a result of negotiation. that it was allowed to establish more diplomatic ties. in fact, 34 countries established diplomatic ties as a result of oslo. it found a peace agreement with jordan that would not been possible had enough after the diplomatic process. whatt the same time, israel was allowed to do during the negotiation process was continued to build and expand its settlements. we saw the number of settlers ended up doubling just in a few short years of negotiations taking place.

within seven years, the number of settlers went up to 400,000. even now we see the number has more than tripled. so what israel wants is it wants to have this farce of a bilateral process, but it does not at all want to pay the price of peace. it does not want to and it settlement or in the occupation. all that it wants is for the international communities to rewarded for entering into dialogue and discussion with the palestinians all the while continuing to steal more palestinian land. amy: so let's talk about the issue of one state versus two states. hejamin netanyahu says supports a two state solution. diana buttu, you have changed your views on this. >> yes, definitely. in the past, my view was that the only way forward was to be able to have palestinians have a state of their own. but the more that i have spent time there, the more have come to realize after spending time

in the negotiations, is if this does a battle and could've enjoyed a long time ago. this is about the ethnic cleansing of palestine. i believe the only way we can move forward as if we address the fundamental issue and if we begin to establish the situation in which all individuals living in this country are given equal rights, irrespective of what their religion is and their race. that is the only way we are going to move forward. at this point in time, continuing to believe in the two state settlement -- what we're seeing is all it has done is further entrench the occupation -- is to believe the concept of insanity. i am not summit he who believes in that. juan: i want to go back to u.s. secretary of state john kerry's speech. he said the future of a two-state solution is in jeopardy. >> despite our best efforts over the years, the two state solution is now in serious jeopardy. the truth is that trends on the

ground -- violence, terrorism, incitement, settlement expansion, and the seemingly endless occupation -- they're combining to destroy hopes for peace on both sides and increasingly cementing an irreversible one state reality that most people do not actually want. one cup he went on to say a one state solution would mean palestinians would currently be relegated to separate but unequal enclaves. state,here's only one you would have millions of palestinians permanently living in segregated enclaves in the middle of the west bank with no real political rights, separate disparitiesincome under permanent military occupation that deprives them of the most basic freedoms. unequal is what you

would have. and nobody can explain how that works. juan: gideon levy, can there be a jewish state at the same time there's a democratic state in a one state solution? kerryhink what secretary described so nicely about the future is the past and the present. he just described the reality in the west bank in gaza and the recent years. nothing changed. it is exactly there. therefore, my claim is the one state could have been established 50 years ago. you only question now is what kind of regime will this state have? by the end of the day, the green line was killed many, many years ago. the 1967 borders are, unfortunately, irrelevant anymore. the settlers go to such a

quantity, that it became into reversible reality. and what secretary kerry described is very, very precise. but the only question i ask myself is, mr. secretary, don't you know this is the reality by now? don't you know this is the reality in the recent decades? you are speaking of the future. when will be the stage in which people like secretary kerry will admit a two state solution is dead? i'm think if they had more guts and more -- i think if they had more guts and honesty, they would have said it by now. but saying this means to reshuffle everything. all of our concepts, our beliefs, our values. it takes time to change minds. the by the end of the day, we have only one alternative. deal tentative is the one state, which exists already for 50

years. in the struggle will be from now on -- like the name of your program "democracy now!" equal rights is the only issue at stake. amy: gideon levy, i want to play a clip of donald trump who spoke about israel wednesday night when he briefly took questions from reporters. whatrump: i think you know i believe. i'm very strong with israel. i think israel has been treated very unfairly by a lot of people. if you look at resolutions of the united nations and what has happened, their effort 20 reprimands and other nations that are horrible places, horrible places that treat people horribly have not even been reprimanded. so there's something going on and i think it is very unfair to israel. amy: he is saying he thinks it is unfair to israel. israel be can't let

treated with such disdain and disrespect. the beginning of the end was the horrible iran deal and now this u.n. stay strong, israel, january 20 is fast approaching. what is your assessment of donald trump and what he will mean for israel and palestine? >> stay strong, israel. as if israel is about to collapse. weapons and the submarines, stay strong, israel, another 20 days. it is ridiculous. but i will be very honest with you, amy. elections, i played with myself that maybe trump is the better choice because we knew very well what hillary clinton would do and mainly we knew what she would not do. i thought that maybe an unexpected figure like trump

might bring new air, new ideas, new approach. the blind support to israel. -- and stop the blind support israel. now i see his last expressions. i think between the two, john kerry is much more of a friend of israel, friend of democracy, and friend of peace in the middle east rather than donald trump. he is still very unexpected. i doubt if he even knows what are his plans about the middle east. that my feeling is that donald trump below is go with the strong ones in the victims will always be the weak ones. in our case, we know who are the victims and who are the weak ones. juan: diana buttu, your sense of what should happen and what can happen under a trump

administration and republican control of the congress as far as the united states is concerned -- your perspective on what needs to happen now in terms of the palestinian-israeli conflict? states, in the united it has become clear to me that israel is not an issue that we can even discuss any longer when trumpve president-elect and would be president clinton talking very much in the same form. and in the republican party, democratic party, the line is pretty much the same. what has become clear to me as someone who lives in palestine, the u.s. is no longer relevant any longer. what we need to begin to do is focus on all of those other countries and pushing for divestment, pushing perceptions, pushing for boycotts of countries all around the world just in the same way the south african apartheid movement ended up pushing for end of apartheid, ended up going around the u.s. and pushing legislation through

a different -- three different countries around the world. it has become apparent to me that the u.s. has been an obstacle for decades now and the only way forward is to go around the united states, rather than try to go through the united states. amy: i want to ask you about david friedman, donald trump's bankruptcy lawyer, who is his pick to be the next u.s. ambassador to israel. freidman said in a statement that he aimed to "strengthen the bond between our two countries and advance the cause of peace within the region, and look forward to doing this from the u.s. embassy in israel's eternal capital, jerusalem." when his nomination was announced, there was an article headlined "david friedman: trump's radical right ambassador makes netanyahu look like a j street lefty." let's go to david friedman in his own words. in october, he was interviewed on the israel network i24news. >> will donald trump recognize israel so capital?

>> yes, he said that countless times he will recognize the city of jerusalem as israel's eternal capital. move the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem. >> all right, so trump's policies as far as the israeli-jewish-american voter, why should israeli voters, israeli-american voters vote for trump? who want tothose see a strong relationship between israel and the united states with no daylight, those who want to see israel protected at the united nations, those who want to see the strong is level of military and strategic cooperation between the two countries, those who don't want to see any daylight between the two countries, those who want to live in the environment or the united states does not attempt to impose upon israel a solution to the palestinian conflict against the state of israel, those who want to see jerusalem

recognized as the capital is wrote, you know, vote for donald trump. amy: that is david friedman was donated to be the u.s. ambassador to israel. diana buttu, if you could explain what this means, moving the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem for an audience, for example, in the united states who may not have any idea -- i also want to point out how rare it is to bring on a palestinian to comment on this. the last few days since the resolution -- i'm not talking about fox, msnbc, cnn rarely interview a palestinian. they interview netanyahu plus representatives. they represent -- they interview group as if it is the palestinian side and that is pretty much it. but if you can explain what this means. >> first to get to the issue of jerusalem, not a signal country around the world is recognize that jerusalem is the capital of

israel, including the united states. the reason no one recognizes jerusalem as the capital of israel is because under the partition plan, resolution 181, the issue of jerusalem was want to be decided in the future and to be internationalized. this is why when the negotiations actually began to take place in 1993, jerusalem was placed as one of those issues to be negotiated. the united states position has always been that every country around the world -- that the status of jerusalem is one that would be decided bilaterally between the two sides and that neither side can impose their own vision for jerusalem. this is why the united states has never moved its embassy to jerusalem and why you have to instead go to tel aviv. what donald trump is purporting to do is go around years of u.s. foreign-policy to define that only u.s. foreign-policy, but international policy on the issue of jerusalem and simply to

accuse israel. when it comes to the issue of representatives speaking before the media, you are absolutely right, amy. in order to get a palestinian voice on mainstream media, notice the conversation ends up being between one israeli faction and another israeli faction or sometimes you g somebody within the u.s. a administration speaking. what i think they need to know is we are very capable of speaking for ourselves and we should be invited to speak for ourselves, rather than having people speak about as. this is what one of the major problems is. for decades, the israelis have been speaking about as but not to us. the international community has spoken about us and not to us. you see this particularly when it came to secretary kerry's statement that palestinians do not want to see a one state. the polls are showing the opposite, that people don't believe in tuesday's any longer. even taking or the negative not believing in it, people genuinely want to see one state.

it is time for people to start listening to the voices of palestinians. we are very capable of speaking for ourselves. juan: gideon levy, your sense of what needs to be done now him and not only here in the united states, but across the globe, those who want a just solution between palestine and israel? also, your perspective on sanctions and the boycott move ment. >> unfortunately, the only way to change things in israel policy would be only by pressure from the outside. i have very little hope that change would come from within the israeli society, which is extremely brainwashed and nationalistic and religious and right-wing and even racist more and more day after day. i think the only hope is from international intervention. above all, international pressure. it is about time that israel

will be punished for the crimes of the occupation. it is about time the israelis will pay for their occupation that they all share responsibility for. we are all settlers. carry us israelis responsibility for this occupation project. taken tof us should be be punished -- pay to be punished. even though the israeli not on theit is agenda, nobody cares about the occupation. so my only hope, and it is a limited hope, that gradually, gradually the world will react like africa. hopefully, it will be effective. and that is right now the only optimistic scenario that i can draw. amy: finally, diana buttu, former u.s. president jimmy carter is calling on president obama to draw 137 other nations

for diplomatic recognition before obama leaves office. "new york times goes with editorial, carter writes -- "the combined weight of the united states record vision come united nations ownership in a secured council resolution subtly grounded in international law would lay the foundation for future diplomacy. this is the best, not perhaps the only means, of countering the one state reality that israel is imposing on itself and the palestinian people." the former u.s. president jimmy carter in "new york times" op-ed piece. we will end with you, diana. abouts is not a question recognition. it is whether we will be able to get our rights and forced. if that means that recognizing palestine is a means to precluding of going to court, than i do not want it. what i want to see is the palestinian government taking israel to court. i want to see them go before the icc, international criminal court, when it comes to

settlement and their actions in gaza. i want to see that israel is being sanctioned around the world. i want to see israel is being isolated around the world as well. if that means we have to trade one for the other, i will take going to court instead of recognition. amy: diana buttu, thank you for being with us from haifa, palestinian attorney. and gideon levy speaking to us from tel aviv ha'aretz columnist ,. we willing to your piece. .hen we come back, ava duvernay stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!,

democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we spend the rest of our show with acclaimed director and filmmaker ava duvernay. her recent netflix documentary, "13th" just picked up three critics choice awards and is generating oscar buzz. the film chronicles how our justice system has been driven by racism from the days of slavery to today. one out of four human beings with their hands-on bars, shackled, in the world, are locked up here in the land of the free. >> achilles browder was walking obama party when he was stopped by police. and they said, we're going to take you to the precinct and most likely we're going to let you go home. i never went home. click 13th amendment to the constitution makes it unconstitutional for someone to be held as a slave.

there are exceptions, including criminals. >> the loophole was immediately exploited. what you got after that was a rapid transition to a mythology of black commonality. the beast needed to be controlled. >> you better believe it. >> it became impossible for her -- politician to run and if you're soft on crime. >> millions of dollars will be allocated for prison and jail facilities. >> three strikes and you are out. >> an enormous burden on the black community, but it also violated fairness. required to keep these prisons filled, even if no one was committing a crime. to talk aboutt mass incarceration because it has become heavily monetized.

the focus is taking on people and community corrections, parole and probation. >> how much progress now that there is a private company making money off the gps monitors? >> now have more african-americans under supervision and the slaves in the 1850's. >> products of the history our ancestors chose. that set of choices, we have to understand in order to escape from it. i'm only human after all don't put the blame on me ♪ juan: that was the trailer for ava duvernay's film "13th," available on netflix. in september, the film became the first documentary to ever open the six-decade old new york film festival. amy: ava duvernay's's work includes the hit film "selma," 2014 which told the story of the campaign led by dr. martin luther king and others to draw

the nation's attention to the struggle for equal voting rights by marching from selma to montgomery, alabama, in march of 1965. with "selma," duvernay became the first african-american female director to have a film nominated for best picture at the academy awards. well, ava duvernay join us in new york. welcome back to democracy now! >> pleased to be here. amy: now "13th" is playing in the age of trump. talk about how you conceived of it, what "13th" is about. we got a good sense in this trailer. and where we're going now. >> thank you for having me. explanationy is an through our history of americans as a relates to oppression and racism and criminalization, and how we have come to the point where we have 2.3 million people behind bars, not to mention the millions who are affected by incarceration, on parole, and

probation. trying to deconstruct the issue. when i first started working on it, i was focused primarily on the prison industrial complex. profit around punishment. you really can't talk about that issue without context as historical legacy. understanding that when we speak of prison labor now and companies like air mark and exploiting prisoners behind bars, that it relates to reconstruction. trying to create this continuum so we realize history -- what we are experiencing now is not new. was,"selma" to "13th" it wow, this is happened before. saying thisrk, current work is echoing off the past in order to greet any future we have to understand where we have been. " inn: in the title "13th

terms of laying the basis of the themes you explore in the film? mythis is debate amongst colleagues at netflix. they said, we should not collect "13th." it is so obvious. everyone knows this loophole. we are sure you, everyone does not know this loophole. there is a clause within the constitutional amendments, the 13th amendment, that is supposed to abolish slavery. there is an exception. anyone deemed a kernel by the state. amy: we're going to go to another break. when we come back, we will play another clip from "13th." a documentary that goes back well over a century. a lot of what you're talking about, mass incarceration, through the last eight years, has also ramped up. so what did it mean under president obama and what he did me under president trump. we're talking to ava duvernay. her documentary, "13th." stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "blue in green" by miles davis.

this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. i want to go to a clip documentaryernay's "13th." >> the war on drugs have become part of our popular culture and television programs like "cops." >> when you cut on your local news at night, you see black men being paraded across the screen in handcuffs. >> black people, black men and black people in general, are overrepresented in news as criminals. when i say overrepresented, that means they are shown as criminals more times than actually been criminals, based on fbi statistics. >> i'm a big believer in the power of media, full of these

cliches that basically present mostly black and brown folks who seem like animals in cages and then someone could turn off the good thing it is a for prisons, because otherwise, those crazy people would be walking on my blog. >> crating the context where people are afraid. when you make people afraid, you can always justify putting people in a garbage can. juan: ava duvernay, this issue deal with, how the media perpetuates the image of black criminality and stirs up the cost of public fear? >> yes, yes, in order to be part of the fabric of the documentary, great activist from new york says in the p's, it is all about creating the context of fear. "other" create the which has been done to african-americans over the course of history, this "otherness" that allows fear to

embed itself in politics and issues of progress and profit and power building you know for the last eight decades now. juan: one of the things that most struck me in the film is as you deal with the policies of each president since nixon, you then show the growth of the prison population as a result of those policies and some of the most astounding growth occurred under bill clinton. >> we start the film off with statistics that are given by obama and we go back through nixon, reagan, bush one and through clinton. those are the years that the boom happen, the foundation was laid for the current problem. we delved into those presidencies and examined what each administration did to get us to where we are now. surprisingly, criticism for including the clintons. ultimate, everyone did what they

did. we have to recount what that was so we understand where we are going forward, which is to a scary place, i think. amy: i want to turn to another clip from "13th." in 1989, five african-american and latino teenagers were arrested for beating and raping a white woman in new york city's central park. they became know as the central park five. the teenagers initially "confessed," but soon recanted, insisting they had admitted to the crime under the duress of exhaustion and coercion from police officers. this is a clip of "13th." >> last night, the eight teams were arraigned on charges of rape and attempted murder. park jogger case, they took five in the us of people put in prison because the public pressure to lock up these "animals" is so strong. >> you better believe i hate the people that took this girl and raped her beautifull brutally. >> he took out a full-page ad to

put the pressure on. these children, four under 18, all went to adult prisons for six to 11 years before dna evidence proved they were all innocent. amy: that is a clip from "13th." the central park five. the city of new york just reached a multimillion dollar settlement with them. but donald trump continues to say that they are guilty, ava duvernay. >> this is the atmosphere of trump. it is dangerous. it is from no basis of fact. it is completely fabricated. to continue to demonize these men after they have been found not guilty, after they have been awarded losses by the city, it is stunning. thist is to be expected at point. it is something we need to start understand it is going to be the new normal. folks, especially artists, the community i am part of, really

have to be diligent and rigorous in opposition to it through our work. juan: you spent a lot of the time in the film dealing with the organization alec and its influence in terms of how mass incarceration developed in this country. you also deal with how it is changed in recent years as its -- exposeden exposed and they're saying they're not going to get involved in social issues as much anymore, just economic issues. >> i was pretty knowledgeable about all aspects of the documentary except alec. it was the only thing i did not know about. dixon -- the exploration was really stunning to me to exten understand the shadowy group impacting our laws so we all have to abide by. oddly enough, as you reported on, they changed their name and branding to core civic in the months since the film came out. a rebranding.st

there is nothing new there. when we look at what is coming in the future from alec and what is on the table in terms of what they're going to be pushing, it is -- it will take a brave new world to combat it. amy: you have a powerful scene where you show in "13th," donald trump prominently. it shows a black woman being pushed by white trump supporter and rally as trump is saying "in the good old days, this doesn't happen because they use to treat them very rough. they would not do it again so easily." >> the good old days. we juxtapose images of trump at his rallies in the campaign with images of civil rights abuses happening in the 1960's. we juxtapose them against footage out of selma. that same atmosphere out of ignorance and hate and criminalization and oppression is what he -- it is hard for me to say "president" -- what he

espouses. that footage is important. it is something i want to make during're watching again the inauguration when he raises his hand. i think will be a sobering moment for the country when you see the power of images, the power of him taking the oath. my hope is that it shakes people out of some of the -- that your viewers, but many other people out of this reality show haze we seem to find herself in. it israel. we after member what he said and hold him accountable. juan: part of what is real is donald trump has called for a nationwide stop and frisk program. this is trump speaking in september and a town hall meeting in an african-american church in cleveland posted by fox news. >> there's been a lot of violence in the black community. i want to know, what would you do to help stop that violence, you know, black on black crime? trump to one of the things i would do, ricardo, i would do stop and frisk. i think you have to. we did it worked incredibly

well. you have to be proactive. sort ofly help people change their mind automatically. you understand. you have to have -- in my opinion, i see what is going on here and in chicago. -- and stop and frisk new york city, was incredible the way it works. we had a very good mayor. new york city was incredible the way it worked. i think that would be one step you can do. juan: of course he is rewriting some of the history. in new york, it was declared unconstitutional by a federal judge in the weight was being implemented in new york. at one point, up to 700,000 people a year were being stopped by new york city police. >> it is a job robber. the fact it is embraced -- it is like, shows like yours in the work documentarians are doing is so important. this fake news, this complete rewriting and distortion of history is how we will continue to go to a more dangerous place.

again,s playing it making sure people listen, fact checking this stuff -- you know, you only hope some of this gets through to folks. amy: your film has been shortlisted for an oscar. you are in the midst of filming the children's classic "wrinkle in time," making you the first woman of color to direct a $100 million live-action film. how do you feel about this distinction? >> it is bittersweet. i know for a fact and personally women who are far more brilliant, far more talented than i who came at a time when there were no opportunities for them to do the things i am doing. i can't take all of the firsts and pop my collar and feel good about it. i take it and i make sure that every time those firsts are brought up, i say the names of the wonderful women who did not

get the opportunity to do the things that i did. so, yes, bittersweet. but we move forward. amy: and choosing "a wrinkle in time"? >> you know, the book, it is a book that captured my imagination. it is the story of a girl searchng the universe in of her father and in doing so, find herself. science and spirituality. who doesn't want to get her hands on that? i am grateful and having a good, good time. amy: we are grateful for your work. thank you for spending this time, ava duvernay, director of "13th." it is up for an oscar. with her previous film, "selma," duvernay became the first african-american female director to have a film nominated for best picture at the academy awards. now "13th" is nominated for an oscar for best documentary. it is shortlisted for an oscar for best documentary. that does it for our broadcast. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed

captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new

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