>> hinojosa: with his hit film the motorcycle diaries, he took us on che guevara's epic road trip across south america. since then, he's continued to take us on unexpected journeys on the big screen and on the stage-- playwright and academy award nominated screenwriter jose rivera. i'm maria hinojosa, this is one on one. jose rivera, you are an award-winning playwright, but people probably know you most because of the fact that you're the screenwriter for the motorcycle diaries, and let's, yes, say you were nominated for an oscar for that. pretty extraordinary. but when you think about the fact that you took on writing about che guevara for your first

screenplay that was made into a movie... >> mm-hmm? >> hinojosa: ...people were like, "che guevara?" >> i know. >> hinojosa: "i'm not going to touch it." >> i know, it's huge. it's huge. >> hinojosa: huge. >> yeah. i mean, part of the process that i went through writing it was to put the legend aside, you know? you know, because obviously, i wasn't there when he took that trip, and i had to find a way into the film. like, what is it that i will contribute to this movie? and you know, through discussions with the director, we decided, you know, this should be a coming of age story. it's a young man who comes from a sheltered, middle-class home, who discovers because of the beauty of the road, he discovers the inner political animal that he had. and that's... you know, i did that, and everyone does that at one point in their lives. hinojosa: in fact, i wrote downi said, yoknowyou actually... for anyone whoomes into the motorcycle diaries thinking that they're going to see che guevara-- the one that they know from the posters and the t-shirts and the coffee cups and all that kind of stuff--

actually, you've destroyed that image... >> yeah... >> hinojosa: ...in the sen that there's just no visual connection, really. >> right, yeah. >> hinojosa: it's gael garcía bernal, amazing mexican actor... >> yeah. we effectively avoided things that would link that che to the later che. for instance, in the diary, there's a scene where he's on the amazon, he gets an asthma attack, and there's a doctor on board, and the doctor rushes up to him with a cigar and says, "take this, it will help your asthma." we didn't use that scene in the film... >> hinojosa: oh, my god, because it was a cigar. >> ...it would look like that iconic image, so we didn't want... we purposely avoided anything that referenced the future, because obviously, he didn't know the future. >> hinojosa: so you spent nine months thinking about the motorcycle diaries... >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: ...before you even wrote it. >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: but you actually didn't do the road trip that che guevara did, and when you told me that, i was like, "how could you... you're an amazing writer! how could you write that without having taken that road trip?" >> yeah. a lot... i mean, it takes a lot of other kinds of research, but yeah, i mean, i tried to imagine

it for the most part, and his own writing is so vivid, you know? his writing is so beautiful that he puts you in that world. >> hinojosa: because he's a poet. >> he is a poet, yeah. >> hinojosa: and he kept a diary while he was on this trip... >> yes, absolutely. and his friend, granado, he took that trip obviously, and he kept his own diary. so we had both sources to work from. >> hinojosa: and this trip really, perhaps more than anything in che guevara's life, was what formed him as a rev... i mean, do you think that this is what formed him as a revolutionary? >> i would say it was the beginning. his later trip really formed him, because his later trip, you know, he was in guatemala during... right after the coup; he ended up in mexico; he met his first wife, who was a marxist; he met fidel; he met raul; and that was the trip really changed him. this trip, the first one, was really the opening of a door, but he didn't pass through that door until the later trip. >> hinojosa: and there's a moment in the film which ikind

of the crystallizing moment; the moment at the-- and i feel like i shouldn't even say the "leper colony," because that's a word... >> it's derogatory. >> hinojosa: ...right, a word of disrespect. the colony where people who have leprosy live... >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: ...and che-- ernesto... >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: ...swims across the river... >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: ...separating those who have leprosy those who don't have leprosy, and he gives a speech on that night. >> a beautiful speech, yeah. >> hinojosa: do you... when you were writing, when you were processing all the information from che, did you see that as the central, kind of, moment? >> well, you know, yeah. in my discussions with the director, walter salles, the great brazilian director... >> hinojosa: amazing director. >> wonderful, and a great colleague... >> hinojosa: and did he call you? did he say... >> well, we... yeah. we met on a blind date, essentially. >> hinojosa: no! >> our agents set it up, and we met for lunch and we hit it off, and you know, he was every bit as wonderful as his film central station, so i knew i wanted to collaborate with him, but you know, when we talked about it, we wanted to find out what is

the climax of our story, just on very basic, you know, screenwriting 101, you know, what is the climax? and we both decided that was the climax-- when he made the decision to swim from the "healthy side" to the other side, and... >> hinojosa: to cross the border, essentially. >> to cross the border. to cross an internal border, cross, you know, all kinds of psychological borders, and in the diary itself, he mentions it in two sentences-- it's not even a big deal. >> hinojosa: two sentences? >> and we made it, obviously, the central piece of the film. >> hinojosa: so you wrote the screenplay... >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: ...and then you give the screenplay to a director. you are a director, yourself. you've directed film, you're a playwright, and you direct plays. >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: what's it like to write something like this and then give it to a director? >> it's, you know, it's easy in walter's case, because you know he's going to do a beautiful job. it's not always so easy. you know, it's funny-- the thing i learned from having the motorcycle diaries produced is that you can be the writer of a film but not its author; that the filmmaker is the ultimate

author of a film. >> hinojosa: but is that hard for you to kind of... >> it's so hard. coming from the theater and being the author of every, single word, and... it's humiliating, in fact. obviously, though, it's humbling. >> hinojosa: so what do you do? i mean, do you stay out of the... you were involved, right? there was a lot of dialogue being worked out? you were involved? >> yes. that process... i mean, walter's unique because he's tremendously collaborative, so you know, i was invited to the rehearsals, i was invited to the auditions, i was asked to be on the set. and that's not typical for a screenwriting experience, so in that way, it's a lot more like theater, you know, the way i worked with walter. and i knew from having seen central station that he will do a beautiful, magnificent job. >> hinojosa: and it's a beautiful film. i mean, actually, one of the questions that i have-- and i've watched it several times, and i'm like, "are they all actors?" >> mm-hmm. yeah, not all of them, you know? some of them, walter... the thing about... well see, because his background is documentaries, he likes "accidents" on the road. he likes to find that things were not planned. >> hinojosa: so he might have found people... >> oh, he definitely found

people. >> hinojosa: because there are some... >> a little boy... >> hinojosa: yeah! >> ...you know, that guides them... >> hinojosa: let's clue our audience in, for those who haven't seen. >> yeah. >> hinojosa: so essentially, you've got a young che guevara and his best friend, granados, and they're in peru now... >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: ...and just seeing peru visually on a screen like that... >> yes, beautiful. >> hinojosa: ...you had said you hope it inspires people to travel down there. >> yes. >> hinojosa: but then all of a sudden, you start seeing these people who are so authentic. >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: they are indigenous people. they are living in cusco, peru at this time. they're miners. >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: so some of these people were, in fact... >> some, yes. yeah, the indigenous women that they meet in the plaza, and they're sitting around talking, and... >> hinojosa: and how did they do that? like, did they say, "he"... >> they improvised it. they improvised it. walter had his camera, the actors were excited to do it, they just sat down with the women... >> hinojosa: but did they say to the women, "he's playing the role of che guevara"? >> yeah. yeah, it was all explained that, you know, "this is a film, and... but just be yourself, talk about whatever you want, and let the conversation develop

organically," and that's exactly what they did, and there were several key moments in the film where walter did that. >> hinojosa: so you spent some time in the learning craft of screenwriting and playwriting. you spent some time with gabriel garcía márquez... >> i did, yes. very lucky. >> hinojosa: wow! >> yeah, that was in 1989. he was allowed to visit the united states. you know, he wasn't... he was banned for a long time. he got a three-week visa to go to the sundance institute, and so he taught a three-week writing workshop with about a dozen writers from the states, so i did get to know him. >> hinojosa: that's pretty special. >> yeah, it was. it was a turning point, you know? because he's... >> hinojosa: because... >> well, he's such a hero of mine, and i had, you know, as a playwright, i'd grown up in the tradition of realism-- tennessee williams, eugene o'neill, henrick ibsen, you know? and then here comes márquez with this entirely new way to tell story, and it hadn't been done in the theater very much.

and so i... one of the things i wanted to do as a playwright was explore that form in the theater where it didn't exist. and so meeting him and working with him was, you know, one of the... revolutionary. >> hinojosa: so what's the greatest secret that you learned from gabriel garcía márquez that you can share with us? >> well, i'll tell you the irony. he would say... if he were here today, he would say, "keep it real." >> hinojosa: authentic. >> "keep it real." grounded... every bit of "magic" in his books is psychologically grounded. if you look at them all, everything is tied to the emotions of the characters. the example i always give when i talk to students is the storm scene in king lear. shakespeare writes a storm because lear is having his internal storm-- he's going mad-- and so shakespeare gives us the storm in the world. when "magic" is used in this world, you know, it's a reflection of the psychological truth of the characters. >> hinojosa: do you feel that after spending time with gabriel garcía márquez, that suddenly, you would look around... did it make you start seeing the

magical realism that we live with here in this country? >> absolutely, yeah, because when you really look around, you'll see it everywhere. >> hinojosa: it's true, right? >> you know, you see juxtapositions, you see dream-like moments, you see things you never expect. you know, i was walking through new york once, and there was a man selling whips on the street corner to the commuters. you know, things like that happen all the time, and if you're... you just have to be alert, you know? i tell my students at times, you know, "be alert," you know, "really see the world." >> hinojosa: so as a writer... and we were talking before we came on set about the fact that you grew up in long island. you were born in puerto rico, grew up in long island. you've been in l.a., hollywood, for... >> since 1990. >> hinojosa: so quite a bit of time. >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: and how it is that you're able to kind of stay true to your artistic self when you are in the midst of hollywood, you're trying to survive, you have kids, you have to pay the bills. how do you do that? >> yeah, it's not easy.

it's a lot of stubbornness goes into, you know, trying to keep your vision. and you know, part of it is having kids keep you grounded. you know, my children keep me real, as they say. >> hinojosa: yeah, but at the same time, you've got the pressure, i'm sure, that hollywood... once motorcycle diaries came out, you were nominated r an oscar. you're the first puerto rican to be nominated for an oscar as a screenwriter. i mean, did the calls just suddenly start... >> they did, yeah. >> hinojosa: they did. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> hinojosa: so it really does happen? >> oh, yes. >> hinojosa: like, the next day? >> oh, yes, it was madness. actually, in a way it started a little bit before. it started after sundance. it was such a success at sundance. >> hinojosa: and i was at sundance that year. >> really? did you go? >> hinojosa: i couldn't... are you kidding? i was reporting at that time for cnn, so i was live all the time, but i actually had heard about the film-- it was the big buzz. you know, and people think that somehow, this is all very easy, but at sundance, you guys were kind of hanging by pins and needles. >> oh, yeah. >> hinojosa: you didn't know. >> we didn't know what was going to happen, uh-uh. >> hinojosa: your film could have been rejected and... >> yeah. >> hinojosa: ...quashed, and... >> exactly. no, but it sold that night, you

know, to focus, and yeah, the calls came in. you know, i did a job for dreamworks right afterwards. i did a job for sony for alicia keys, you know, so... >> hinojosa: and when you say you "did a job," what does that mean? >> it means that, you know, these... for instance, sony and dreamworks had books that they want to turn into films, so they needed someone to adapt them. >> hinojosa: oh! >> and because i had adapted a book, they figure, "well, he's good at that," and so they called me to do those jobs. >> hinojosa: and so how long does it take to adapt a book to a screenplay? >> yeah, it depends, you know? some books are easier than others. i had been adapting on the road, the kerouac novel classic. and i think i've been working on that for about three years now, you know? some things are harder. the... i did the brief, wondrous life of oscar wao, which... >> hinojosa: which is another.... just because you said it kind of quickly and people are like... the brief, wonderful life of oscar wao from the pulitzer prize-winning author junot díaz... >> right. >> hinojosa: ...about the dominican reality-- dominican

republic, immigrants... >> right. >> hinojosa: hugely popular book. people love that book. i don't know, but when somebody gives you a book like that and says, "make this into a movie," i mean, i would be like... >> yeah. it's... you know, it's become my craft. you know, it's the thing that i've learned to do. i try to do it as well as i can, and it's fun. it's like a big puzzle, you know? it's trying to decide what is cinematic in a novel, and enhancing that and bringing that out is the big trick. >> hinojosa: do you find yourself... i mean, how do you get to that place where you learn to trust, "okay, this is the voice, this is the centerpiece, this is the through-line"? >> yeah, it takes doing, you know? i mean, you ask yourself basic questions: who is this about, what do they want, and what's standing in their way? and when you answer those three questions, you pretty much cover a lot of what a movie is. and you ask yourself... >> hinojosa: hmm. just those three questions. >> just... yeah. >> hinojosa: you make it sound

so simple! >> what is a movie? you know, you look at casablanca, you know? who is it about? it's about rick. what does he want? he's in love with the girl. what's in his way? the nazis, you know? and it sounds very elementary, but if you can solve those problems in a book, you're well on your way to being able to make it into a film. >> hinojosa: a lot of people are enthralled with the creative process, and you've talked a lot about this-- the creative process, the fact that you spend a lot of time thinking, researching, and then sometimes you can sit down, like in motorcycle diaries, and you wrote it in three weeks. >> mm-hmm, right. >> hinojosa: that's pretty extraordinary. >> yeah, think that it was the months of research beforehand, and... >> hinojosa: are you taking notes? >> taking notes, making mental notes, listening to music. i mean, i was immersed. you can ask my kids-- they were going crazy! >> hinojosa: ( laughing ) what would... what would happen with your kids? >> they were just like, "dad, are you still listening to the che music?" and all of that stuff. >> hinojosa: what were you listening to? >> well, there's a lot of music about him, you know? he's a central character in a lot of folk songs, and i was listening to those, i was listening to music from obviously golba and argentina,

so i was really sort of trying to get my head into that space. and you know, i often think of writing as a form of self-hypnosis, you know? you almost go into a trance, and as it were... when you're really, you know, working really well. >> hinojosa: that's hard for kids. >> yeah, yeah, it's hard, but it's doable. hinojosa: why do you think... i mean, now, again, every country that i've been to around the world-- most recently, bangladesh-- somebody wearing a che t-shirt. >> oh, yeah. >> hinojosa: what is it about che? i mean, you spent time with the young che. >> yeah. >> hinojosa: what do you think about the fact that so many people... and actually, do you think that people now actually know what che really stands for? >> stood for, yeah. i don't believe they do. i mean, when i see the t-shirt, i almost immediately think it's a fashion idea as opposed to a political idea. you know, i mean, he... you know, it's... he stood up to the united states, basally, as a latin american man, saying, you know, "latin america-- chile-- should run the mines in chile."

you know, "in argentina they should be run by the argentines," you know, that's what he said. he said, "hands off our country. hands off our resources and our land," to the united states. not a very popular message, and i think around the world that message still resonates, because obviously, we're still everywhere in this country. so i think that that is that sense of resistance, you know? and he took things too far. i mean, he said, "i would love to create 100 vietnams." you know, that's... that's not cool, you know? but that's the man; that's what he stood for, and i don't think people really understand this. >> hinojosa: also, one of the things i loved in the film is that he's human... >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: ...and he's a humanist... >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: we see that part of him. you know, we oftentimes reduce these people to, "he's a hardened terrorist." >> right. >> hinojosa: but he was, in a lot of ways, very much a humanist. >> yeah. >> hinojosa: right? >> well, yeah. i mean, one of his best-known quotes is that, you know, "a

true revolutionary is guided by feelings of love." >> hinojosa: yeah, i had forgotten that quote until just now. >> it would have to, yeah. >> hinojosa: wow, that's a beautiful quote. >> you know, if you're fighting for la gente, if you're fighting for rights, if you're fighting for land and redistribution of wealth, you are fighting for, you know, the affection to the people. and i think... and they... you know, a lot of people are very cynical about che, but i do believe from all the research i've done that he sincerely believes that. he was an idealist to the end and was willing to die for it and did die for it at a very young age. he was 39 when he was killed. so you know, i take him at his word, and i do believe that's what he stood for. his means may not have been my means, you know? there's that iconic moment in his later life when, you know, he was in battle and he had the choice between picking up the ammunition and picking up the medicine-- he picked up the ammunition, because he decided, "i'm a warrior from this point on." you know, i might have not made that choice, but he did and you know, and now history will tell us. >> hinojosa: so you're growing up on long island in the 19...

>> 1960s-1970s. >> hinojosa: 1960s, okay. and you didn't have a lot of means at that time. your dad was a cab driver. >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: and you didn't have television, but that meant that you spent a lot of time with your extended family from puerto rico being new migrants to long island, new york, and there was a tremendous amount of family time that was spent around the kitchen table telling stories? >> yes, when we... when my grandparents came to stay with us. and there was that one year when our... this is one... i kid and say sometimes there are good things about being poor-- when our tv broke down, we couldn't fix it, so there was about a year or so when we had no television, and that's what we'd do is sat around and talked. and you know, my mom is a brilliant storyteller-- probably the best i've ever met. >> hinojosa: an actress, as well? >> my mom? oh, no, no, no. >> hinojosa: but you know... but in the sense that, i mean, isn't storytelling part of, you know, recre... >> yes, there is definitely performance to it, yeah. and she can tell her stories and entertain people for hours and hours. >> hinojosa: so when you talk to

a young... let's say young latinos, and they're thinking, "i don't got nothing here," you're saying to them, "if you just think about the stories of your own lives, maybe it's there"? >> mm-hmm, yeah, yeah. absolutely, i mean, everybody has, you know, a trilogy of novels in their life. i mean, everyone's gotten deep and amazing stories. you know, the trick is to access them, to find them and be able to bring them out. you know, i mean, one of the things that i do often is that i go to schools, you know, and i try to meet young latino writers and actors and say, "look, it's doable; it can happen," you know? >> hinojosa: it's hard. >> it's hard and there are a lot of obstacles, but like anything worthwhile in life, you know, you're going to have to fight for it. so you know, but it's worth it. you know, i've been so many places, i've traveled so many great destinations and met such amazing people because of the arts, you know, and because of film, and i wouldn't trade this

life for anything. >> hinojosa: you made a movie that i happened to think was really extraordinary. it may have had a few faults here and there, but i thought that the movie trade was amazing. it's a movie that deals with the drama of human trafficking in a way that has made it... that made it so real. >> hmm. >> hinojosa: what made you... i mean, how did that one come about? because that issue... >> yeah. >> hinojosa: ...is such a secret issue, so undercover, even as a journalist i'm afraid to try to go into the topic of human trafficking. >> yeah. it... and i knew very little before going into the process. i mean, yeah, there was a very well-known film director, roland emmerich, was funding films that were smaller, more issue-oriented than his normal work, and this was a film he wanted to really, seriously wanted to do about, you know, sex slavery. and i was just right after the successes of the motorcycle diaries asked to write this film. and you know, i went to mexico

to do research and talked to girls, and... >> hinojosa: you met some young girls who had been trafficked as sex slaves in mexico. >> yeah. some... i mean, there was a 12 year old girl... >> hinojosa: oh, my god. >> ...who had done it since the age of nine. >> hinojosa: and she had been kidnapped... >> she had been sold. >> hinojosa: sold. >> from... by family. >> hinojosa: there are some scenes in the movie trade that i don't know that i will soon forget, even though i'd like to forget them, because you know, you just revealed what's happening with these young women and how they're treated like meat. >> mm-hmm, yeah. >> hinojosa: i mean, literally, they're auctioned off and... and these are young girls who have normal lives, and suddenly they're... what? is it that they're kidnapped? they're tricked into it? >> sometimes, yeah. sometimes it's kidnapping, sometimes they're sold by their family, sometimes they're orphans or they're discarded, you know? they're taken by force, they're drugged so they can't run away. one of the reasons it's international is that they'll

take girls from thailand and they'll go to egypt or they'll go... they'll go to places where they can't speak the language, and that's part of the technique of controlling them, you know? so even if they run away, they're in a culture they have no connection to. >> hinojosa: and then no one believes them is the other thing that comes up in the movie trade... >> it's horrible. >> hinojosa: ...is that these people want help, and they're saying, "i've been kidnapped," and the officials are like, "hmm." >> yeah. >> hinojosa: let's talk for the last few minutes about what it is like now to be a latino in hollywood... >> mm-hmm. >> hinojosa: you know, you... it's not like you came to hollywood saying, "i'm a latino screenwriter/playwright," you know, but how is it... does it... for you now? is it difficult? is it more open? is there a continuing stereotype? >> well, it is... i mean, i've been there now, as you know, since 1990, and it has gotten better. it was not so good for a long time. i think the last few years with the success of y tu mamá también and these great mexican directors-- you know, cuarón and all those great guys-- i think it's helped a great deal, and i

think the prospect of movies in spanish, for instance, is much more accepted now than ever. so you know, it's never been easy, it never will be easy,ut it is easier than it used to be. >> hinojosa: and for example, when you wrote motorcycle diaries, were you thinking about writing that for an american audience? >> well, you know, the early on the decision was made to have the film be presented in spanish, so we were, you know-- at least i was-- thinking internationally. would do in the states, but my feeling was, you know, che was an international figure, and that this film would hopefully be seen everywhere around the world, and it has been. >> hinojosa: so when you find these young latinos who want to write plays-- which is your first love and what you'd love to be doing if you could only make enough money to survive doing that-- but what do you say to them about tapping into that central voice of theirs so that they can, in fact, become a budding screenwriter or a budding playwright?

>> well, that's the hardest thing, you know? many writers-- young writers-- they go through a phase where they imitate their heroes. "i want to be like sam shepard," or "i want to be like"... >> hinojosa: "i want to be like jose rivera!" >> ( laughing ) "i want to be like lorca," you know? that's what they do, and then... but the process has to... something has to happen in that process where you destroy your hero-- you have to kill your hero in order to find your voice, and that's the hardest part. but i tell young writers, "your voice is there," you know, "you thk with it every, single day. you dream with it every, single night, and what you have to learn to do is listen to your voice and stop listening to the voices of your heroes who you want to copy." because eventually, you can't go anywhere with that. you know, it's a good way to learn your craft, but when you're really finding that authentic self and bringing it out, that's when you become a writer. >> hinojosa: so what's next for you, jose rivera, in the scheme of things? >> i'm doing another film with walter salles. you know, a film for... called

american rust, based on a new novel, and i'm writing a novel myself-- i'm writing my first novel. >> hinojosa: wow! congratulations! >> so yeah, i've bn at it for four years now. it's getting close to being finished. >> hinojosa: great. >> yeah, so not bad. >> hinojosa: thank you so much for all of the work that you do, jose rivera, and for opening up our minds and our eyes to the world through your eyes. we really appreciate it. >> well, thank you so much. >> hinojosa: and thanks for being with us. >> it's been a pleasure. continue the conversation at wgbh.org/oneonone. captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

steves: i'm meeting my florentine friend tommaso at i fratellini, a venerable hole in the wall much loved among locals for s tasty sandwiches and wine sold by the glass. -grazie. -tommaso: thank you. and when you're done, you leave it on the rack. steves: boy, it's intense in the city. tommaso: yes, it is. well, if you want to leave the tourists, let's cross the river, and let's go to where the real florentines live and work. -steves: what's that? -tommaso: the oltrarno area. steves: there's much more to this town than tourism, as you'll quickly find in the characteristic back lanes of the oltrarno district. artisans busy at work offer a rare opportunity to see traditional craftsmanship in action. you're welcome to just drop in to little shops, but, remember, it's polite to greet the proprietor. your key phrase is, "can i take a look?" -posso guardare? -man: certo. steves: grazie. here in this great city of art, there's no shortage of treasures in need of a little tlc. this is beautiful. how old is this panting?

woman: this is a 17th-century painting. steves: from florence? woman: we don't know. -maybe the area is genova. -steves: genova. each shop addresses a need with passion and expertise. fine instruments deserve the finest care. grand palaces sparkle with gold leaf, thanks to the delicate and exacting skills of craftspeople like this. a satisfying way to wrap up an oltrarno experience is to enjoy a florentine steakhouse, which any italian meat lover knows means chianina beef. the quality is proudly on display. steaks are sold by weight and generally shared. the standard serving is about a kilo for two, meaning about a pound per person. so, both of those for four people? woman: yes. steves: the preparation is simple and well established. good luck if you want it well done. man: i am hungry, yeah. oh, look at this.

ah! steves: oh, beautiful. [ laughs ] man: wow. steves: chianina beef. -woman: white beans. -steves: okay. perfect. man: and that one. steves: so, the meat is called chianina. tommaso: that's its name, because it comes from the chianti. steves: oh, from chianti. okay. and tell me about this concept of the good marriage of the food, you know? tommaso: well, when you have the chianina meat, you want to have some chianti wine, and they go together well. they marry together. we say, "si sposano bene." steves: si sposano bene. a good marriage. in other words, the wine is from tuscany, -and the meat is from tuscany. -tommaso: exactly. you don't want to have a wine from somewhere else. that's it.

- [voiceover] funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by the alice kleberg reynolds foundation and hillco partners, a texas government affairs consultancy. and by klru's producers circle, ensuring local programming that reflects the character and interests of the greater austin, texas community. - i'm evan smith. he's the breakout star of the political journalism class of 2016. a reporter for the washington post, whose dogged coverage of donald trump won him praise from his peers and legions of fans and just maybe a pulitzer. he is david fahrenthold. this is overheard. let's be honest. is this about the ability to learn or is this about the experience of not having been taught properly? how have you avoided what has befallen other nations in africa one could say that he made his own bed, but you caused him to sleep in it. you saw a problem and over time took it on. let's start with the sizzle