09/14/17 09/14/17 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! population,enous the palestinian people are being forced out. resolve to protest their situation, nonviolently using something like bds, is one of the most admirable pieces of resistance we've seen anywhere in the world. amy: today, the legendary rock musician rogers waters, founding member of pink floyd. he has emerged one of the most prominent supporters of the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement against

israel. we will talk about an attempt by long island politicians to shut down two of his upcoming concerts, his opposition to the senate anti-bds bill, plus his role in the documentary, "the occupation of the american mind: israel's public relations war in the united states." advertisingsed would put it in even more blunt terms. propaganda is not a dirty word, he said. face it. we are the game of changing people's minds. making the think differently. to a compost that, we need propaganda." roger waters and sut jhally for the hour. all of that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in a breakthrough that could shield 800,000 undocumented

immigrants from deportation, top congressional democrats said wednesday they've reached a deal with president trump to protect immigrants who were brought to the u.s. as children. the deal came after senate minority leader chuck schumer and house minority leader nancy pelosi met with president trump over dinner at the white house. in a joint statement, the democratic leaders said trump agreed to support legislation that would enshrine the protections of daca into law. daca is the deferred action for childhood arrivals program, which gives legal protection to young undocumented immigrants to live and work in the united states. but early thursday, president trump cast doubt over any agreement, tweeting -- "no deal was made last night on daca. nasa border security would have to be agreed to." the reported agreement enraged many republicans, including commerce meant steve king who retweeted associated report on the agreement, adding -- "if ap is correct, trump base is blown up, destroyed, irreparable, and disillusioned beyond repair. no promise is credible."

in the caribbean, aid groups are struggling to bring food and water to increasingly desperate residents, as the overall death toll from hurricane irma rose to at least 77. french officials said they've launched one of the biggest airlifts since world war ii in order to bring relief to the island of st. martin, where 90% of buildings were damaged when irma made landfall with category 5 winds. on st. john, part of the u.s. virgin islands, where at least four people have been reported dead, fema recovery workers are searching for 30 people missing amid the island's rubble. the devastation in the caribbean is so severe, it can be seen from space. before-andfter satellite photos released by nasa's earth observatory show barbuda and saint barts turned from green to brown after hurricane irma stripped vegetation from the islands. in the continental u.s., hurricane irma's death toll rose to 31 after eight elderly residents of a nursing home in hollywood, florida, were found dead after they languished without air conditioning in sweltering conditions. the discovery of the deaths prompted a local hospital, which

is just down the street from the rehabilitation center at hollywood hills, to send in more than 50 medical workers under a mass casualty protocol. 158 people were evacuated, many with severe dehydration and other heat-related symptoms. an administrator at the nursing home said temperatures spiked tuesday night after air conditioners went down due to damage from hurricane irma. hollywood police chief tomas sanchez says his department is investigating the incident as a crime. very tragic. it is very sad. many of us have loved ones in assisted living facilities, and we expect that care to be there for those people. we immediately started a criminal investigation into this matter and major everyone was evacuated. we took control of the entire building immediately thereafter. amy: in the western u.s., arid conditions continue to fuel massive wildfires. the national interagency fire center reports at least 62 large fires burning this week in california, montana, oregon, and six other western states.

at least 8 million acres of forest and grassland have burned so far this year. increasing climate chaos has driven a number of celebrities to warn of the dangers of global warming. at tuesday night's "hand in hand" hurricane relief telethon, music legend beyonce warned that devastation from hurricanes harvey and irma, and massive flooding in south asia, is due to climate change. the telethon kicked off with a message from stevie wonder, who called out climate deniers head of a rendition of the classic song, "stand by me." >> as we should begin to love and value our planet and anyone who believes there is no such thing as global warming must be blind or unintelligent. amy: on capitol hill, vermont independent senator bernie sanders introduced a bill wednesday that would provide universal healthcare by expanding medicare to include every american. sanders introduced the bill flanked by doctors, nurses, and some of the bill's 15 democratic co-sponsors.

sen. sanders: today we begin the debate vital to the future of our economy as to why it is that in the united states, we spent almost twice as much per capita on health care as any other nation on earth, and yet we have 28 million people without any health insurance and even more who are underinsured with high deductibles and copayments. amy: senator sanders unveiled his medicare for all bill as senate republicans launched another attempt to repeal the affordable care act after the party's two previous efforts ended in humiliating defeat. the white house called wednesday for an african-american host of espn's sports center to be fired after she called president trump a white supremacist on twitter. on monday, sportscenter jemele hill tweeted -- "donald trump is a white supremacist who has largely surrounded himself w/ other white supremacists." the comments drew a public reprimand from espn and outrage from conservatives. it also drew the support of anti-racist activists including former nfl quarterback colin

kaepernick. on wednesday, white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders called on espn to fire jemele hill. >> i think that is one of the more outrageous, set anyone could make, and suddenly something that i think is a horrible offense. amy: jemele hill later deleted her tweets critical of president trump; she issued an apology late wednesday saying they painted espn in an unfair light. trump -- on president the white house has trump will sign the resolution, which passed unanimously. the resolution came as president trump met at the white house was south carolina senator tim scott, the only black republican carly serving in the senate, who has criticized the president over his response to deadly violence at a march of white supremacists and neo-nazis in charlottesville, virginia last

the what also give it a photo of the meeting with the senator mislabeling his name as tom scott instead of 10 scott. in boston, fans at a red sox game unfurled a giant banner thursday over the famed green monster outfield wall reading, "racism is as american as baseball," where it remained for a few minutes before fenway park security guards removed it. in a statement to the "washington post," the fans behind the banner dropped described themselves as a group of white antiracist protesters. assist a bomb blast killed three people at a checkpoint in the capital kabul. the explosion wounded five others and rattled players and hundreds of fans at a cricket match in a nearby stadium. and the united nations security council called wednesday for burma to end violence against its minority rohingya community, as the number of refugees who've fled to neighboring bangladesh reached 380,000. the u.n. has called a campaign of violence by vermis military, which has seen men, women, and

shall bring killed in homes -- and home set on fire cut a textbook case of ethnic cleansing. at the united nations secretary-general antonio , guterres was questioned wednesday by reporters. >> given the situation has gotten so much worse in the last week, do you believe this is ethnic cleansing? >> i would answer your question with another question. rohingyathird of the population had to flee the country, can you find a better word to describe it? make of his comments came as the burmese government said president will not at aung san suu kyi -- aung san suu kyi will not attend the us and the next week. more than 300,000 of called on the nobel committee to revoke the nobel peace prize. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. today we spend me hour with world famous british musician

roger waters, founding member of pink floyd. the band is perhaps most well known for their records "the wall" and "dark side of the moon." roger waters recently released his first new studio album in 25 years and is touring stadiums across the country. but the tour has not been without controversy. waters is scheduled to play on friday and saturday night and long island, despite attempts by nassau county officials to shut down the concerts, which will take place in a coliseum owned by the county. the reason? waters' outspoken support for bds, the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement targeting israel over its treatment of palestinians. nassau kenya officials had claimed the concerts would violate a local law which prohibits the county from doing business with any company participating in the economic boycott of israel. waters has also been met by protests on many other stops on the tour. ahead of his concert in miami, the greater miami jewish federation took out a full page ad in the miami herald with the headline "anti-semitism and hatred are not welcome in miami." the group also pressured the

city of miami beach to prevent a group of school children from appearing onstage with waters to sing during the concert. despite all of this, roger waters has continued to speak out. last week he wrote a piece in the "new york times" titled, "congress shouldn't silence human rights advocates." in the op-ed, he criticized a bill being considered in the senate to silence supporters of bds. waters writes -- "by endorsing this mccarthyite bill, senators would take away americans' first amendment rights in order to protect israel from nonviolent pressure to end its 50-year-old occupation of palestinian territory and other abuses of palestinian rights." democracy now! nermeen shaikh and i spoke to roger waters on wednesday. i began by asking him to respond by arecent statement legislator who attempted to shut down roger waters question the upcoming concerts in one island. he called him villain anti-semi to" as in "brace the bds

movement and that some will not do business with you. there's no room for hatred in nassau. >> the first thing that lives out of that statement is the notion that i might be in some way anti-somatic will step or against jewish people were against the jewish religion or against anything that has jewishness attached to it. i am off. they comb through my past and they find it very difficult to substantiate that accusation. they use the accusation as they do with anybody who supports bds or anybody who criticizes israeli foreign policy or the occupation. that is their standard go to response is to call you and effect; to start calling you names. and hopefully, to discredit you. as far as nassau coliseum is concerned and the specific thing thee, i was hoping that

state attorney, i guess, i've forgotten his name at the moment, was going to try and take the case to court and was going to actually litigate with the management of nassau coliseum on the grounds they were breaking some law. because it would have given us a ,hance to have our day in court and for what i considered to be the site of reason and dialogue and decency and the law and constitution and freedom and rights and being grown up about things. i think they eventually look at it and thought it was too dangerous. because if they had gone to court with us, there's no question but that we would have the case and it would have perverted the presidents to stop legislatures around the rest of the united states from bringing frivolous cases in similar circumstances.

come i don't know where you are, but i'm really sorry that you did not bring this out into the open because it bears discussion. they are attempting to take away the first amendment rights of american citizens and others. amy: but you are playing friday and saturday night at nassau? >> yes, we are. and we will be playing to great audiences who will completely understand as well there is no hatred in my show. i am somewhat critical of the current administration in a satirical and playful way, i like to think. but my show is all about the race, theif this human race, is to survive even the next 50 or 100 years, we need to start looking at the possibility of the transcendental nature of love and with the start looking after one another and recognizing our

responsibility to others -- which is what is about. nermeen: you wrote, should not silence human rights advocates and this is about the proposed bill, the israel anti-boycott act. could you explain what the act calls for and what your own experience has been with it? >> as i read it, i don't read the complete draft, but -- i know it sounds ludicrous, but it is true. there is a bill before congress s,720, which seeks to criminalize support for boycott, divestment, and sanctions, which is a nonviolent international protest movement, to protest the occupation of palestinian land that has been going on for 50 years. they want to make it a felony to support bds, as far as i

understand it, with criminal penalties -- and my view, they are absurd. some of you like me, for instance, if the bill was passed in its current draft, and would be subject to a fine between $250,000 and $1 million. and a term of imprisonment up to 20 years. that is for peaceful, nonviolent, political protest on behalf of basic human rights for really good people. which is absurd, clearly, when you put it like that. you think, well, it is ridiculous. why would congress -- why would congress even be using any of their precious time in the legislature to even discuss such a thing? contravening as it does the first amendment to the constitution, which is one of the lasik writes that american citizens have -- freedom of speech, to say with italy. nermeen: expand your own

involvement with bds. how did you come to learn of it and supported in the way you have? in 2006, i was doing a tour. i was asked to play in israel, to do a gig in tel aviv. i will try to tell this very quickly. i started getting -- no, i agreed to a gig in tel aviv and i mean really started getting needles from people asking if i wanted to do it. i was told about bds, which was started by civil society of palestinians in 2005. i engaged in a dialogue, that famous word, with these people, and with palestinians. they convinced me i should cancel the gig, that we were going to play in tel aviv. as a kind of act of compromise, place -- and

agricultural community where many different religions, christians, jews, muslims all live together, their children all good to school together. it is -- they grow chickpeas for a living. we did the gig there, outdoors. it was a huge success. 60,000 israelis came. no palestinians, of course, because they are not allowed to my story. at the end of that gig, i stood up and it had been hugely enthusiastic audience. i said, you are the generation of young israelis who have the responsibility to make peace with your neighbors and to figure out this terrible mess that your country has got itself into. and there was complete silence.

it was like 60,000 kids all looking at me going, what is he talking about? this is not in the script. so anyway, i went back the next year at the invitation of -- amy: the united nations agency? >> yes. -- we went all over the west bank. we did not go to gaza, unfortunately, but we went everywhere else that we could think of in the west bank. i was flabbergasted. i mean, i had never been into -- i've never seen that kind of repression in action. the roads the palestinians aren't allowed to drive on. they're showing me the development of the settlements. this was 10 years ago now. 11 years ago now. and so i went and talked to people in the refugee camps. i determined when i left there

that i would do everything i there was some kind of justice for the people who live there. to help them. which is why we're here today. the fight goes on. but i'm happy to say it is a fight that has been won by bds. this is why the people beginning to picket my gigs. now they are because they're beginning to panic, i think. in ago roger waters, founding members of the iconic rock band pink floyd. we will be back with him and moment and look at the documentary he narrates, "the occupation of the american mind: israel's public relations war in the united states." ♪ [music break]

amy: roger waters in brooklyn, new york earlier this week. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue our conversation, we go now to index it -- we are

speaking with roger waters, the famous british physician, founding member of the iconic rock band pink floyd. he is the narrator of a recent documentary titled "the occupation of the american mind: israel's public relations war in the united states." over the course of 51 days, the israeli military dropped nearly 20,000 tons of explosive on gaza, a densely populated area the size of philadelphia. killing over 2000 houston needs and wounding tens of thousands more. you are wanting majority of these casualties were civilians. -- the overwhelming majority of these casualties were civilians. >> is relaunched at least 160 strikes on the gaza strip. >> one less hospital in gaza now. israel today flattened a hospital. sparkedheer scale condemnation around the world. >> shocked many people around

the world. mass demonstrations have been held and many of the world's major cities. but in the united states, the story was different. polls show the american people holding firm in their support for israel. >> this is the latest poll, americans show 57% show israel's actions in gaza justified. 34% say unjustified. were striking,s but not new. over the course of the conflict in which palestinian conflicts have far outnumbered israeli casualties, the american people have consistently shown far more for the israelis and palestinians. >> is very difficult to divorce public opinion from the media coverage that people rely on to form opinions. the most prevalent lesson from looking at the coverage is the coverage tends to see this conflict from the israeli side.

amy: that last voice, peter hart, national coalition against insertion. that clip from the film "the occupation of the american mind: israel's public relations war in the united states." it is narrated by our guest roger waters, the musician. on wednesday, nermeen shaikh and i interviewed him and sut jhally , professor of communication that university massachusetts, founder and executive director of the media education foundation which produced the documentary. i asked sut jhally why he chose to make the film. >> it started quite a while ago. american public opinion is so far outside the bounds of world opinion when it comes to israel. as we talked before, the moment you start to talk about this, there is an attempt to silence you. you're actually not allowed to talk about it. once you do talk about it, you realize that americans have a very warped sense of the conflict. i learned this for my own

students as well as from public opinion polls, that most americans take, in fact, it is the palestinians who are illegally occupying someone else's land in the middle east. amy: talk about what in fact is happening in the middle east. >> well, it is such a clear kind of instance of colonization. we just had 50 years of occupation -- israel's occupation of the west bank, until recently, of gaza. that is very, very clear. there's also this -- and americans think it is so complicated. when i talk to my students, they say, oh, it is too complicated. i explained to them in a few sentences that this is a very simple conflict. is that this conflict simple, you have to make it more complicated. and that is the function of public relations. that is what we focused on. we focused on the public relations campaign in the u.s.

to essentially confuse the american public about what was going on so there would be no pressure coming from the public on this. in that sense, you focus on the film, the occupation of palestine also depends upon and occupation of american public opinion. that unless the american government is -- ask as a protector of israel, than the occupation is now possible. amy: let's turn to another clip of the film featuring our guest sut jhally. >> israel can saturate, but they're still the problem of massive hosting casualties showing up. you can't make those images go away. israeli official actually said in the war of pictures, we lose. we need to correct comics like him or balance it in other ways.

the last document spells out which talking points have been most effective in spinning the brutal reality of palestinian casualties. he says the first thing the probe israeli people should do is express empathy for the innocent victims. unfortunately, innocence do get hurt and we really grieve that. >> we're set for every civilian casualty. >> the entire situation is tragic. >> you also have to get people to empathize with israelis by describing what life is like for them. living in constant fear of rocket attacks. again and again we hear the focus phrase that "the rockets are raining down on israel." >> thousands of rockets are raining down on our civilians. >> rockets were raining down on israel. >> the advertising executives will save the essence of propaganda is repetition. >> rockets raining down on israel. >> rockets raining down on his really border town. spokespeople are told to

turn the tables and asked the american people, what would you do? >> so what would you do in the united states? >> you imagine what america would do if it were faced with a similar threat? >> we try to ask you to question what we ask ourselves, what would you do? >> what would you do if more than 3000 rockets have been fired on were cities? >> what would you do if 3000 rockets>> -- >> what would you do if terrorists work tunneling under your frontier? toof course anyone would act defend themselves against unprovoked aggression, but it is a question that is completely devoid of any content. what drives a society to a point where after multiple devastating wars, they continue to resist with these most feeble methods. they don't want you to ask that question. they don't want you to ask, what is behind this? who are these people? where did they come from? why are they so desperate? no, a way to understand israeli

behavior. israeli behavior is always characterized as a reaction to unprovoked violence. amy: that is an excerpt from "the occupation of the american mind: israel's public relations war in the united states." thelast voice was from campaign of the palestinian rights. we also heard from norman solomon. this is another excerpt from the documentary. >> two years after the invasion, the mac address commerce sponsored a conference in jerusalem to devise a formal public relation strategy known in hebrew as -- visits included the are and never touching executives, media specialists, journalists, and leaders of major jewish groups. according to a brochure from the congress, no single event brought home the need for a more effective information program than the war in lebanon and the events that followed. as one participant put it, longer perceived to be little david, but goliath

steamrolling across the map. it was to develop strategies to counter negative press coverage by shaping the media frame in advance. he doesn't just jump into the camera, a, still a bit says, it is directed, managed, made accessible. israel-based advertising executive martin center would put it an even more blood terms. propaganda is not a dirty word, he said, face it. we're in the game of changing people's minds and making them think differently. to a college that, we need propaganda. the conference is chaired by u.s. advertising executive, the legendary d man who created the beer as in the 1970's. >> the ad man responsible for transferring miller lite which have been viewed before as a woman's beer into a manly beer that tough guys would drink. best part is it

tastes great. >> less filling. >> it would regret the same branding, only in the opposite direction, to help soften the image of a country coming to be seen as a bully. he recommends craving a cabinet post -- creating a cabinet post dedicated to explaining policy, whose job would not be setting policy, but presenting it in the most attractive way to the rest of the world. >> classic pr is to say the problem is not the policy. it is the presentation. when the policies are so reprehensible that many people become critical, rather than acknowledge there's anything wrong with the policy, is a doubling down on the pr effort. nermeen: that was another clip from "the occupation of the american mind: israel's public relations war in the united states." that last clip was norman solomon. the film is narrated by our guest roger waters. sut jhally, i want to ask you

about these clips, the way in state workingelis with different media organizations has changed, as you argue, american public opinion or persuaded in this way to be sympathetic only to the israeli side. attempt togy, the influence u.s. public opinion, is does supporters argue such initiatives are attended by practically all countries in the world. they all have lobbying firms in the u.s. what is it that distinction is it from the propaganda that is attended by every country attempting to influence u.s. foreign policy. >> that is true, everyone tries to mold perception in some way for their own actions of the difference in this case is the israeli public opinion or

israeli public relations is so closely connected to the interest of the american state. so they're not pushing against the american policy. american policy working hand-in-hand with israeli policy as well. in the film, we -- we really want to make clear this is not about in israel lobby that is manipulating politicians and the public. the reason why israeli public relations works is because it goes hand-in-hand with american elite public opinion. if that did not happen, the public relations would not work in that way. we know those two things go together because when an american elite opinion differs from what israel would do them oftentimes american and the opinion prevails, as in the discussion of around the around policy. the israel lobby really wanted to push a different line on that, but that is one place

where the interests of the lobby diverted from the interest of the american state. when we talk about this, it is not about a lobby that has all of this power. it is about a lobby that goes hand-in-hand with the interest of the state. nermeen: even if u.s. elite opinion were to change, this precise strategy, hasbro, would be relatively ineffective? >> it relies upon the american state to go along with it, which is why men public opinion is so important. which is why you have to control american public opinion. not only the senate and house, but you have to make sure there's no pressure on politicians -- which is why you to control public opinion, which is why we say you need to occupy american public opinion to make the occupation possible as well. amy: when it comes to this film, where was it shown? >> we've had a huge amount of

difficulty getting it shown. it is been shown almost nowhere in the u.s. amy: elsewhere? brussels, i just came from a screening in beirut. we showed it in london. it has screened in television stations in scandinavia, europe, russia "today" show to an al jazeera showed it. amy: and the reaction to this film when you attempt to get it to play in the united states? >> it is the way censorship works, which is silence. we submitted it to film festivals, which is the first way you try and get some publicity and visibility. we did not get it accepted into one film festival in the united states. therefore, he means it is very difficult to make the next step, which is how do you get into theaters and television and media reviews? on this issue, is that just this film, but on this issue, there

is a web of silence around it. it is not just the right wing. it is not just fox. it goes everywhere. it is the one topic that even so-called liberal media won't touch. in the film, we have the example of rachel maddow who supposed to be the most progressive voice on television, and yet refuses to deal with this issue. amy: let's go to another clip from "the occupation of the american mind: israel's public relations war in the united states." theocale american to cover 2014 attack on gaza. a keyword search of all of the major networks show that over the course of the 51 sought, the ongoing military siege were barely mentioned compared to the thousands of times hamas rocket attacks were mentioned. >> ways for mass watching missiles into population centers of israel? >> it is built into the very assumptions journalists bring to the table. >> since israel pulled out of gaza in 2005, 8000 rockets have

been fired from gaza into israel. >> this is how propaganda works. it works by getting your words in the mouths of other people, especially the mouths of supposedly objective media commentators. >> i'm wondering if you're outraged by the conduct of hamas , starting the conference by ash starting the conflict by rockets gekko using them as human shields? give a level of outrage at the mass itself? >> k does not seem like propaganda at all. it seems like news. this goes across all major media, including the supposedly most liberal. on msnbc,chel maddow known as a leading progressive voice on major television. she only did four segments on the war. during these segments, she never once mention israel's ongoing

occupation of the west bank or its siege on the blockade of gaza and never once mention the fact that the u.s. has armed israel with a very weapons that were being used against the defenseless population. instead, choosing to from the invasion as part of a senseless cycle of violence perpetrated by both sides. >> a constant cycle of fighting against israel and hamas for the several years. and the fighting, and the cause of the fighting, terribly familiar because this is basically a recurring war. it feels like deja vu. it feels like, i have heard this before. you are right. it really does keep happening over and over and over again. >> rachel maddow, the most important woman on msnbc, the leader when it comes to politics . in six weeks of work, never mentioned the word "blockade" "illegal settlements" and never mention the support commerce has the support of israel, unconditional amount of money,

billions of dollars. what is that? what a disappointment. our media operation, national media, is a scandal when it comes to israel. amy: next up from "the occupation of the american documentaryentin narrator roger waters. let's go for a moment to the contrast that you bring into this film, which is the international media. >> how does killing children on a beach contribute to the purpose? what was the point of burning the hospital -- bombing the hospital? there is great uncertainty of whether you are acting within the law. oh, yes, you're deliberately targeting of roads in which you know there are women and children. you've tried everything with gaza. you have besieged it for seven years. people live a ghastly live and you know it better than anybody. why did you try one other thing

-- talking? why not be brave and talk directly with them? why not? >> that is another excerpt from "the occupation of the neck in mind." talk about the contrast of the media coverage. gois dust you don't have to to foreign parts, just look at the way it is covered in the united kingdom. there is a striking difference. part of the reason -- the clip we showed or used was of john snow doing what a journalist should be doing, which is asking questions. in the u.k., journalism actually still exist. on this issue in the united states, journalism has ceased to do what it is supposed to do, because it has succumbed to public relations. executivehally, director of the media education foundation which produced the

film. when we come back, we return with sut jhally and roger waters. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue our conversation with british musician roger waters, founding member, rock band pink floyd. we spoke about the occupation of the american mind, israel's public relations war in the united states" and waters of support for the bds movement, the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement. lastly, roger waters wrote a ."ece in "the new york times

he criticized a bill being considered in the senate to silence supporters of bds. the bill's author ben cardin was recently questioned by the intercept rhein graham. sensitive in the bill. wasthe way it is written winning itself toward felony penalties for people as they participated -- cork we had cruel sanctions, i don't think -- i just don't think that is in our bill. you're catching me -- i feel like i know it very well. i don't think we have criminalized. i think our issue is yours participation in national organizations speaking out against the u.n. actions. the cosponsor of the bill, roger waters, you are laughing. >> well, yeah. that is funny. amy: because first there are sanctions and fines related to

this -- >> the bill is sponsoring. amy: even some of the cosponsors are changing their views. new york senator gillibrand responded to a question from her constituents at a flushing town hall meeting by saying she would not support the bill in its current form and that she would not support it unless the bills authors and language specifying the punishment only extend to corporations and not to individuals. that is according to -- >> i have met her a couple of times. i was absolutely flabbergasted when i saw her name as a cosponsor. a cosponsor of this bill. that points to something. that is when peace comes across your desk you are a politician and you go, oh, aipac, it is from a fact. it is been drafted by aipac will stop just sign it and handed back and you don't even read it. they don't even read it. the disco, oh, that is it. that is a done deal will stop

whatever aipac once, they get. and that is all there is -- which is bizarre. and wrong, honestly. i'm really glad that kirsten gillibrand has taken her name off of it. she is still against eds, but almost certainly, certainly she , she is in trouble enough. though she did say to her that it, she did say that she had a meeting with netanyahu on the visit to israel. and she asked him a question, what was his plan for what should happen in the future. and he went -- next. you know? >> his plan is to never leave. his plane is to take over the entire thing. in the film, we have some footage of him at a meeting with his right-wing settler race were hitting stone is listening, essentially saying that. said, we're never going to give it back. don't or about america, i know

how to manipulate america, it is very, very easy. from their perspective, the occupation is never going to end. one of the major ways in which he could put pressure on is i think precisely through things like bds, precisely through what is happening within the u.s. i think bds -- a matter what you think of bds, as a rhetorical device, it is superb. it has been branded in a way that even if you are against bds, you're talking about it. i would urge everyone to talk as much as possible about bds because it is such a weapon to use to be able to raise these issues, especially with young people. nermeen: i want to say people who are critical of bds say that israel is being unfairly singled out, and there are many other countries who commit absolutely you greet his violations of human rights against their own people and the world is silent. our guests can roger waters, and other supporters of bds have

criticized radiohead recently proclaimed the concert recently in tel aviv. the group's leader tom york responded in part by saying "playing in a country isn't the same as endorsing its government. we have played in israel for over 20 years to secession of government, so more liberal than others, as we have in america. we don't endorse benjamin netanyahu anymore than trump, but we still play in america." so that is thom yorke of radiohead. your response to that? >> i would say to tom york saying we are supporting the israeli government, willy-nilly, tom. i've said this to him was that well, not face-to-face because he won't talk to me. i said, willy-nilly, you are. after you did your gig in tel aviv, it was a liberty from pages of israeli newspapers. -- it was all over the front pages of these really newspapers. there's a quote saying this is

the best moment for hasbro that we've had in decades. radiohead playing. it is given us so much better position and so much more power than we had before they played. it doesn't matter what they say. not that they're speaking much about it. they're being pretty quiet about it. if you listened to what tom yorke has said since the gig -- amy: you been going back and forth with him a lot >>. no, no, before they play, i contacted him. i wrote him a number of females and asked if we could talk about it. and then there was a little bit of to and fro when he said, -- it is enough, saying people like me. throwing mud at them from afar and not coming for dialogue. which is nonsense. i entreated him. i applaud him -- and for him to have a conversation to talk about the picket line and bds

and to talk about the situation on the ground as well. i am sure tom does not know. i bet he has not been around the west bank. i bet he hasn't been to gaza. i bet he hasn't actually locked. because when you do and you see the way the palestinian people have treated by the occupying army, it breaks your heart. you have really no alternative but to say i'm going to be part of this -- it is like michael bennet, the seattle seahawks. a number of nfl players were invited to go to israel all instances played. michael bennett and have a dozen others went, uh, no. is a sporting icon. i do not want to be used as part of the hasbro, part of the whitewashing. carlos, thes john athlete in 1968 who stood up and get the black power salute.

amy: in meco city. >> at the olympic games very, ry bravely andery controversily. he said, giancarlo says, as far as justice is concerned, you're either in or you're out. he says, well, i am in. that is michael bennet. i thought, yeah. that kind of commitment to the idea that everybody should have justice is laudable. bds when ittics of comes to israel say they're either very close ales of the u.s., saudi arabia, egypt, pakistan to name only a few, who have also waged it reaches violations -- you greet his violations against its own people, minorities, to say nothing of non-us allies, russia and china where people routinely go and perform and have other forms of cultural exchange. is there anything do you think that distinguishes the position of israel and why a bds campaign

is more legitimate there than it would be in these other countries? >> we have been asked by palestinian civil society to join them in their struggle against the occupation of their land -- let's be clear. land that was laid out in the u.n. resolutions in 1947 as land that should be for a palestinian state. whatever your feelings may be about the creation of the state ofsrael or whatever, the u.n. decided that partition was a good idea and whatever. ok, so -- and it has not happened and such as it is being will await piece by piece by illegal settlements. the land slowly being stolen. the indigenous population, the palestinian people are being forced out. resolve to protest the

situation nonviolently using something like bds is one of the most admirable pieces of resistance that we have ever seen in the where -- anywhere in the world. it is quite extraordinary. could i boycott egypt? to playdy ever asked me in egypt, i might see if there was an organization in egypt that i could ally myself with, like there is bds in palestinian civil society. could i go and play in syria? no. there's nothing left. it is rubble. well, there is, but it is clinging to its statehood by its fingernails. amy: let's in with one last clip of the film "the occupation of the american mind: israel's public relations war in the united states." it looks at how perceptions are changing in the u.s. about the israeli-palestinian conflict, again, the film against the narrator roger waters. >> over the past three years,

the proliferation of social media and internet news sources has made it increasingly difficult for the israeli government and pro-israel groups in the u.s. to manage american perceptions of the conflict. video footage and reporting from the ground bearing witness to the reality of the occupation are now more accessible than ever on the internet. in addition, a number of high profile documentaries made by is really palestinian film makers have trained harsh light on the repression of palestinians. >> this is a small village. what do you think? have you no heart, and a family? everyone of you knows this -- you stole my land. >> at the same time, powerful new boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement has been getting momentum and raising awareness of the occupation.

while activists from the black rights movement have been making explicit connections between police violence against african-americans and the israeli military's repression of -- >> >> nine struggle and resist the occupation. people continue to dream and fight for freedom. from ferguson to palestine, the struggle for freedom continues. >> all of these developments seem to be having an effect. polls show will simply remains at all-time highs among older americans, it is been hammered -- hemorrhaging among them people. >> something really striking is taking place. lots of young people are abandoning the mainstream media and turning instead to other internet sources. evidently different way of making sense of what is happening. unfiltered view of israel's repression. like frankoperatives lots are in a panic. in a latest report, he is happening with young people a

disaster and demands that israel supporters respond. and people have answered the call. your powerful right-wing billionaires like sheldon adelson bankrolling a campaign to silence student activists on college campuses. some not working for groups who see what is happening to palestinians as a civil rights issue have refused to be intimidated. they're refusing to back down. even know they're being labeled as anti-semitic and terrorist-supervisors. and the numbers are growing. >> as a discourse begins to open, more people are starting to understand this as a rights-based issue, not an issue of radicalism. this is a movement for the rights of people whose rights are being denied, who are living under occupation, who want to live in their country freely, just like anybody else. >> you can see just so many

video clips of kids having their hands smashed by soldiers with batons. you can see just so many pictures of thousands of people being killed as has happened in gaza. --a certain point, there is you realize what you're being told is a pack of lies. amy: the last was, a professor colombia university. roger waters, you're the near rater of this film. you don't have to do any of this. you could just perform. you are an icon and 70 places in the world. but you focus on this issue. ultimately, what gives you hope? >> what gives me hope? we just saw a clip of black lives matter -- activist talking about how he feels his struggles in concert with the struggle of the palestinian people. sut was saying

in the film, there are blogs, other places to get news now of the internet so you can get at more of the truth of what is going on. the fact that people are communicating through that now gives me some hope. show, it is expressed very, very clearly -- i don't mention palestine once in our show. i think ofe shot the separation wall going through or something. but there is a general sense and everything in my show that we are all human, that we he absolute responsibility to look after one another. amy: roger waters, founding member of pink floyd and sut jhally, founder of the media education foundation which produced the film, "the occupation of the american mind: israel's public relations war in the united states."

roger waters is performing a nassau coliseum friday night and saturday night. that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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