[captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now!. accusers awaiting the who the accusers to show at least some piece of evidence that indicates that i committed any crime during the period hat i was in the presidency. now, what is behind that is the attempt to criminalize my political party. amy: in an exclusive, former

brazilian president for the hour, the leader president barack obama once called the most popular politician on earth is now running again for president of brazil. he's the current front-runner, but he may soon be heading to jail instead on what supporters say are trumped up corruption charges. this comes just two years after lula's close ally, brazilian president, his successor, was impeached in what many considered to be a coup. does the future of democracy at stake in brazil? we'll talk with him about his case, plus today's 15th anniversary of the u.s. invasion of iraq, and he'll discuss u.s. interference in latin america, and last week's assassination of rio de janeiro's city councilmember and human rights activist ma ri elle franco. >> it's clear that her death was a premeditated killing. now, i don't know if it was a

militia or a plea, but what is clear is it is unacceptable. amy: former brazilian president will you i see inacio lula do silva, popularly known as lula, for the hour, all that and more coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in a startling revelation about the 2016 u.s. election, it's been revealed that a voter profiling company named cambridge an lita harvested the data of more than million facebook users without their permission in efforts to sway voters to trump. cam bridge an lita was founded by billionaire robert mercer, trump's former adviser steve ban nonwas one of the key strategists. the facebook data was first obtained by a cambridge university academic named alexander coge an, whose

company, global science research, built an app that paid facebook users to take a personality test and agree to have heir data collected. the app also collect the data of users' friends, meaning it actually collected data from tens of millions of users without their knowledge. the company then bought this data in order to turn voter profiling company into a powerful psychological tool, which began launching targeted political ads aimed at carrying out robert mercer's far-right political agenda. this is whistle blower christopher wylie, who worked with alexander kogan to obtain the data from facebook. >> it was a grossly unethical experiment, because you are playing with an entire country. the psychology of an entire country without their consent or awareness, and not only are you, like, playing with the psychology of an entire nation, you're playing with the psychology of an entire nation

in the context of the democratic process. amy: the london observer, the guardian, and the "new york times" also helped break the story. the revelation of the massive data breach and its role in the 2016 election has caused wide spread backlash from both u.s. and british lawmakers who are now calling on facebook's crew crew, mark zuckerberg, to testify. this firestorm comes after facebook has already faced massive backlash over how the platform was used to spread russian propaganda ahead of the election. president trump attacks special counsel robert mueller for the first time by name on twitter over the weekend. on saturday, he wrote, "the mueller probe should never have been started in that there was no collusion and there was no crime." on sunday, trump tweeted, "why does the mueller team have 13 hardened democrats, some big crooked hillary supporters and zero republicans? another dem recented added, does anyone think this is fair, and yet there is no collusion." mueller is a long-time

republican and a former f.b.i. director who was appointed by republican president george w. bush. trump's first attacks on mueller came only one day after deputy f.b.i. director andrew mccabe was fired late friday. trump had repeatedly attacked mccabe, who was fired after attorney general jeff sessions rejected an appeal that would have let him retire this weekend, meaning mccabe would have received his full pension. mccabe was fired for "lack of candor" about a conversation he authorized between a journalist and f.b.i. officials. mccabe denies these allegations and says his firing is aimed to discredit robert mueller's investigation in which he's a potential witness. he also says he took extensive notes about his conversations with president trump. a slew of democratic lawmakers have offered to hire mabe for two days in order to allow him to be eligible to receive his full pension.

he was fired 48 hours before he was to actually retire and be able to get that full pension. in syria, turkish soldiers and turkish-backed syrian fighters seized control of the syrian of after a two-month turkish assault on afrin. the takeover expands turkey's territorial control in northern syria and deals a blow to kurdish efforts to achieve autonomy. activists say hundreds of civilians have been killed in the offensive, which has also forced thousands to flee. on sunday, dozens of kurdish and leftist groups in turkey demanded the international community pressure turkey to withdraw from afrin. this is turkish lawmaker. >> we call on the united nations, the european council, the european parliament, international coalition forces, islamic countries, and the international community as a whole to take steps to immediately avert the tragedy in after sandrin get concrete results, including withdrawal

of all armed forces who entered afrin. nicole: more news from syria, war monitors report at least 30 people were killed on saturday, a midst the ongoing bombing and ground offensive against eastern ghouta outside the capital, damascus. thousands of civilians have been fleeing the assault othe suburb which was controlled by rebel grou. on sunday, syrian state tv broadcast video of syrian leader bashar al-assad visiting troops on the front lines in eastern ghouta. in russia, president vladimir putin has won another six-year term. official results show he won 76% of the vote. his main challenger, an opposition leader, was barred from running after the results were announced putin was questioned by reporters about whether he'd run again six years from now. >> i believe that what you're saying is a little funny. let's count. will i be sitting here in power until i'm 100 years old? no, no. amy: officials from north korea, south korea, and the united states are slated to

meet in finland this week to talk about reducing the threat of nuclear war. it's not yet announced who will be attending the meeting, but finnish officials say the u.s. representatives are nongovernment officials. in afghanistan, at least eight civilians were killed before dawn saturday morning when elite members of the u.s.-backed afghan intelligence agency opened fire from a helicopter on farmers irrigating the fields below. one of the victims' brothers says they were killed still holding their shovels. the youngest victim was 14 years old. one local politician told the "new york times" these types of raids are usually carried out with the assistance of u.s.-led nato coalition. in kashmir, at least five members of the same family were killed sunday as indian and pakistan both fired across the line of control that divides this disputed territory. the victims were a couple and their three children gathering for breakfast when a mortar shell hit their home. the youngest victim was 8 years old. meanwhile, a kashmiri photo journalist named kamran yusuf

has been release from the jail after charges of waminging wear on india. he was the first journalist to be arrested and held by india's national investigation agency, which was formed in 2009 to fight terrorism. in texas, two people were injured sunday night when a package exploded in southwest austin. it's the fourth package explosion in austin this month. the explosions have killed two members of prominent african-american families and seriously injured a third latina woman. authorities say the bombings may be hate crimes and that sunday's explosion is likely linked to the first three. in texas, a 23-year-old sal van doran asylum seeker named laura monterrosa has been released from the t. don hutto detention facility after a national campaign to win her freedom. monterrosa says she was sexually assaulted by a guard while in detention and was then placed in solitary confinement

in retaliation for speaking up. she fled elle salvador to escape sexual persecution has a lesbian and has been detained for nine months. and computer hacker adrian lamo has died at the age of 37. he's best known for hacking the computer networks of major corporations, including the "new york times," yahoo!, and microsoft. and for reporting u.s. army whistle blower chelsea manning to authorities after the two became friends online. lamo's body was discovered in an apartment on wednesday in wichita, kansas. the cause of his death unknown. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!,.org.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. brazilians continue to mourn the loss of 38-year-old rio de janeiro city councilmember and human rights activist, marielle franco. franco was assassinated along with her driver last wednesday night after a pair of gunmen riddled her car with bullets as she returned from an event on the topic of empowering black

women. franco, who is a block lesbian, was known for her fierce criticism of police killings in brazil's impoverished neighborhoods. the night before her death, franco wrote on twitter, how many more must die for this war to end? in january alone, government figures show police killed 154 people in rio state. franco's death comes at a pivotal moment for brazil and the future of democracy in south america's largest country. just last month, president michelle ordered brazil's military to assume control of police duties in rio. two years ago, the brazilian president was impeached by the brazilian senate in a move she denounced as a coup. brazil is holding elections later th year. the front-runner is former brazilian president luis inacio lula do si have a, commonly known as lula. while he's leading all opinion

polls, he's facing a possible prison sentence after being convicted on what many believe to be trumped up charges of corruption and money laundering. last year, president yusuf said "the first chapter was coup was my impeachment, but there's a second chapter, and that is stopping president lula from becoming a candidate for next year's election." british human rights attorney jeffrey robertson told the new internationalist that "extraordinarily aggressive measures are being taken to put lula in jail by the judiciary, by the media, by the great people of wealth and power in brazil." lula is a former union leader who served as president of brazil from 2003 to 2010. during that time, he helped lift tens of millions of brazz yalens out of the poverty. president barack obama once called him the most popular politician on earth. late friday, i had a chance to

speak with lula. he was in brazil. i began by asking him about the assassination of rio city councilman marielle franco. >> amy, we have two problems in brazil. he first is that her assassination is unacceptable. the assassination of a young that he e only thing did was to work against the assassinations of black persons and the ripheral areas defense of lives of people. it's clear that her death was a premeditated killing. now, i don't know if it was a

militia or police, but what is clear is it is unacceptable and that all of us brazilians should come together in a single voice and shout out loud o immediately demand punishment of those responsible or that killing. and the president should have learned a great lesson from this killing, which is that the problem of violence in the peripheral areas of our brazil is not going to be resolved by turning to the armed forces. it is necessary that the state have a presence in the peripheral neighborhoods of azil with jobs, education, healthcare, cultural activities . employment and salaries so that people can survive and live with dignity.

the armed forces were not trained to deal with common crime in brazil. they were trained to defend our ountry from outside enemies. in other words, when people understand that violence in brazil is associated with the very poor quality of life that people are subjected to. the conditions for people living in peripheral areas, then there will be less violence in the peripheral areas, especially against children, young people, and black people in our country. an he e of marielle is will ballot i can case because -- is an emblamitic case

because it requires all those who love life, all those who love freedom, all of those who struggle for human rights, all should protest loudly so that the assassins of marielle are put in prison and are given exemplary punishment. that's what we all want. amy: on twitter, there was a tweet the lot of nine millimeter ammo used in the execution of marielle franco and anderson pedro was purchased by the federal police and matches casings found at the scene of the massacre that killed 19 in sao paolo in 2015. two cops and one municipal guard were convicted. glenn greenwald of the intercept then tweeted, to the surprise of absolutely nobody,

the preliminary evidence is establishing links between the policend the assassins who killed marielle franco. nothing is conclusive yet at all in this regard, but the preliminary evidence is pointing straight in that direction. do you agree with this, president lula? and what do you think needs to be done immediately right now as thousands of people have taken to the streets? >> look, the first thing is if it is true that the weapon that killed marielle was a weapon purchased by the federal police and it was already used in another massacre near sao paolo two years ago, then we would have very strong indication. we must know whether at some point in time during that period between the massacre in

sao paolo and the killing of marielle whether the federal police denounce that any weapons had been or munitions had been stolen from the ederal police. or if there was a robbery and the munitions or weapons were purchased by the federal police, it's necessary that the federal police explain to brazilian society why is it that those weapons were in the hands of the assassinated? so if there needs to be clarification with this evidence, if the weapons were stolen and they do not denounce it, because they were ashamed weapons had been stolen from the federal police, well, in very ase, amy, it's important that people be careful to make sure they're not making untrue accusations

or accusations looking for a headline. now, what is true is that for the police, for the armed forces, for the government, the police intelligence, it should be able to in the shortest time possible, they should figure out who the assassins were and then punish those assassins. amy: former brazilian president luis i go natural owe lula da silva is a running again for president but may soon be heading to jail. we'll continue our interview with lula in a minute and ask him about the charges against him, which his supporters say are politically motivated and talk with him about u.s. intervention in latin america, about this 15th anniversary of the invasion of iraq and much more. stay with us. ♪

amy: the woman at the end of the world bir the brazilian singer. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report, as we continue our exclusive, a conversation with brazil's former president, luiz inacio lula da silva, popularly known as lula. the highly popular former union leader is running for president in this year's election, but is facing a possible prison term on what many believe to be trumped up corruption charges tied to a sprawling probe known

as operation car wash. lula was convicted of accepting a beachside apartment from an engineering firm vying for contracts at the state oil company, but many of his lula's supporters say it was politically motivated. the intercept recently report the indictment against lula is rife with problems, the apartment's title was never transferred to lula or his associates. he and his wife never used the property. the prosecution could not identify an explicit quid pro quo or benefit related to the company. no official or internal was produced and the case rests entirely on the testimony of the executive who hoped to gain sentencing leniency for his cooperation. during the interview on friday, president lula responded to the charges and conviction against him. >> i was not accused of corruption. was accused because of a lie.

in a police investigation, a lie and an indictment by the office of the attorney general, and in the judgment of judge morrow. because there's only one evidence of my innocence in my entire trial, which defense counsel explained. the accusers to show show at least some piece of evidence that indicates that i committed any crime during the period that i was in the presidency. now, what is behind that? is the attempt to criminalize my political party. what is behind that is the

interest in a part of the political arena in brazil, together with a part of the ress, reinforced by the role of the judiciary in preventing lula from becoming a candidate n the 2018 election. and i continue challenging the federal police, the office of the attorney general. i continue challenging judge morrow and the appellate court to show the world and to show brazil a single piece of evidence of a crime committed by me. the behavior of the judiciary in this instance is a political form of behavior. amy: mr. president, last year,

the ousted president said the first chapter of the coup was my impeachment, but there's a second chapter, and that's stopping president lula from becoming a candidate for next year's elections. do you see it the same way, that this is the final chapter of the coup, if your conviction is upheld, you will be prevented from running in the october elections? >> amy, the workers party in 12 years in the government, at the helm of the government in to do many able things that had never been done at any time in the 20th century. in this country in 12 years, we brought 40 million people spew

he middle class. we drew 36 million people out f poverty. while europe was shedding 62 million jobs as of the 2000 date, we created 20 million jobs in the formal sector in this country. brazilian s, all workers were able to overcome inflation. it was the time 69 greatest economic growth in the history of brazil. it was the most distribution of income in the history of brazil, to give you an idea, in

2 years, 70 million people began to use the banking system who had never walked into a ank. and when they got rid of dilma, they did want lula to come back because they know the relationship between the brazilian people and president lula is the strongest they've ever had in the entire history of the country, the relationship. and even more important, they know i am absolutely certain that the best way to ensure economic recovery in brazil is to lift up the working people of this country. they know that i know how to do that.

now that the poor people had jobs, had a salary, were studying, were eaten better, had better housing. when that happens, the economy grows again, and we can become the most optimistic country in the world and the happiest people in the world. and, amy, that is why i want to be candidate for the presidency of brazil. o show that a mechanic who doesn't have a university degree knows better how to take care of the brazilian people than the brazilian elite who never looked after the welfare of the brazilian people. amy: president lula, why did you decide to run for president again? >> two things i have still not

decide, amy. the ones who are deciding are he brazilian people. look, all of the public opinion polls in brazil, month after month, and there are several of them, in all of them i'm in first place. and so i'm beginning to be the candidate who has the lowest negative and the possibility of becoming a candidate and winning on the first round, and this is making my adversary very uncomfortable. the am sure, amy, that if supreme court, i will be quitted and that i will be candidate and brazil could once again be a pro tailist in in international policy, the economy could grow again, create jobs, and improve the quality of the life of the people. this is something i know how to

do very well. amy: if the case does not employ well for you in the supreme court, would you consider stepping aside? >> first of all, amy, i'm very optimistic. very optimistic. now, if that were to happen and i was not -- i were not able to be a candidate, if my name is and i think lot, that the party would call a convention and discuss what to o. i am going to require and call for justice to be done in the country.

proven, y innocence is then the judge should be removed from his position, because you can't have a judge who's lying in judgment and pronouncing guilty someone who he knows is innocent. he knows that it's not my apartment. he knows that i didn't buy it. he knows that i didn't pay anything. he knows that i never went there. he knows that i don't have money from petrobas. the thing is that because he appointed himself to the media, i said in the first hearing in a m, you are not position to acquit me because the lies have gone too far. and the disgrace is that the one who does the first lie continues lying and lying and lying to justify the first lie, and i am going to prove that he has been lying.

amy: you raise two issues, president lula, the media as prosecutor and the judge as prosecutor. can you talk about both? start with the media. >> well, amy, it's important that you come to brazil to see what's happening with the brazilian press. i was president for eight years. dilma was president for eight years. all the press s, did was to try to destroy my image and her image and the image of my party. i have more negative subject matter about me in the leading television news program of brazil than all of the presidents in the whole history

of brazil. in other words, it's a daily attempt to massacre me to tell untruths about lula, about lula's family, and the only weapon that i have is to confront them. and they're irritated, because after they massacred me orefour years, any opinion poll by any polling institute showed that lula was going win the elections in brazil. now, second, the office of the attorney general and the car wash scandal, i recommend -- i respect very much the institution. i was a member of the constitutional assemblely and i helped to strengthen the role of the attorney general, but it

organized sk force by a prosecutor who went to television to show a power said that the workers party was established to be a criminal organization, and the fact that lula was the most important person in the t.t. meant that he was the head f a criminal organization. and on concluding the indictment, he simply said the following. i don't have evidence. i don't have evidence. i have conviction. i don't want to be judged by the conviction of the prosecutor.

he can keep his convictions to himself. i want whoever is prosecuting me to come forward in the proceeding and to tell the people of brazil what crime i committed. the only thing, amy, that i ally want now is for the merit of my trial to be judged. i want him to discuss it. i want him to read the prosectorial brief and the defense brief, and then make a decision. what i really want at this time is that justice be done in this country. amy: the candidate polling second in brazil's elections is a far right wing congressman and former soldier. he's been called the brazilian trump. can you talk about who he is, what he represents, and if you

understand there's any communication between him and the u.s. government right now. >> i cannot. i cannot level accusations against an ad versear. the only thing that i would right to have the run in the elections here in brazil, win the elections, and to recover the right of the brazilian people to live well. i cannot pass judgment on the president of the united states, just as i cannot pass judgment on the president of uruguay, and much less can i pass judgment on my adversaries. amy: but if you can explain what he represents, how you differ from him. >> he is a member of the federal congress. he was an army captain in the brazilian army. the information that we have is

that he was expelled from the brazilian army. nd his behavior is far right wing fascist. he is very much prejudice against women, against blacks, against indigenous persons, against human rights. he believes that everything can be resolved with violence. so i don't think he has a future in brazilian politics. he has the right to run. he speaks. he projects a certain image to please a part of society that is of the extreme right, but i don't believe that the brazilian people have an interest in electing someone with his sort of behavior to serve as president of the republic. amy: do you think he was happy

with marielle's death? >> i think so, because he's preaching violence every day. he preaches violence. he believes that those who defend human rights are doing a disservice to democracy. he thinks that those who defend women's rights are doing a disservice to democracy, likewise those who defend the right of the black community. that against everything is discuss when had one is talking about human rights. amy: we continue with brazilian presidential candidate, luiz inacio lula da silva, in 30 seconds. ♪

amy: we return to our conversation with a former brazilian president, the current presidential candidate, luiz inacio lula da silva. mr. president, i want to ask about you what's happened in honduras, with the organization of american states saying that the election there of the incumbent president hernandez was deeply flawed. with the u.s. ambassador to the united nations, nikki haley, going to honduras, clearly the ambassador there, the u.s. representative there deem involved in what has taken place with the swarg-in of the president before a correction of the elections. your thoughts on what's happened in honduras, the u.s.

involvement there, and also the .s. attitude towards, the u.s. actions towards venezuela, putting certain venezuelan leaders on a list of those banned from entering the united states and taking other punitive measures against resident maduro. >> amy, it's quite visible that the united states is interfering in the countries of central america. it's not just today that there's u.s. interference. in many countries of central erica, the u.s. ambassador behaves as though they were elected by the far right in the

ountries of central america. what i deeply regret is that the united states has not learned to live democratically with the countries of central america and with the countries f latin america. amy, in january of 2003, i had been president of the republic for less than one month, and there was already a conflict underway between the united states and venezuela, and i was in ecuador participating in the inauguration of the president of weak door when i met with chavez. and i proposed the creation of a group of friends of venezuela, so it should be able to guarantee democracy in venezuela. i told the united states that

they should stay in the group, colin powell participated in the group, and i also got spain involved. and i did not participate in the group. why? because spain had been the first country to recognize the coup, and the united states was accused of being involved in he coup. and i put brazil and argentina there, and i think france as ell. and we were able to give venezuela a time of peace to be able to hold elections, and something like that should happen today. self-determination of the people is a sacred matter. the right of the united states, the united states has rights to

decide matters within the united states. that is called sovereignty. and it is up to venezuela to make the decision within the overeignty of venezuela. i several times did what toiked get president bush to meet with resident chavez. when president obama was recently in power, he went to trinidad and tobago, and then we had a meeting with him to cr the conditions for the united states to have a more peaceful relationship with venezuela. but it seems to me that it's not possible. there's a certain irrationality at the u.s. state department that doesn't want to negotiate eace in venezuela.

but we need to understand that as central america grows, it's going to prove the economic situation generally. no one wants to see democracy at risk anywhere in the world, and that is why i regret that there's not understanding on the part of the united states with respect to venezuela. amy: the u.s. c.i.a., u.s. government, is well known to have been involved in the 1964 coup in brazil. do you see enough evidence of that, both in the ouster of president dilma rouse you have and also your own case? do you see any evidence of foreign involvement, articularly with the u.s.? >> well, it took almost 40e

years to prove the united states did indeed participate n the 1964 coup. even though i am not a defender of conspiracy theories, i am and people in the united states, some don't accept brazil playing such a proactive role in foreign olicy. there are extraordinary nterest in our petrobas, and there is interest in brazil's influence in latin america and n south america. there are interests that not

wanting to necessarily see the bank of the bricks countries go forward. and there is the brazilian press always talks about the close relationship between the office of the attorney general in brazil and the department of justice in the united states, around petroas issues. and we are trying to investigate brazilage legislators go to the u.s. congress. they talk with u.s. congresspersons. and all we want is to be working so that brazil will be country n country, a that knows how to use its

tremendous potential for development to benefit the people of brazil. i ask myself every day who would be interested in trying to destroy petrobras? who would be interested in destroying brazil's engineering industry? who would be interested in destroying the largest company in protein in the world near brazil? who is interested in fracking in brazil? amy: monday marks the 15th anniversary of the u.s. invasion of iraq. you opposed that invasion. your thoughts today? with the u.s. continuing its presence in both iraq as well as in afghanistan.

>> amy, i am so sorry that on december 10, 2002, i spoke with president bush at the white house. and i told him that iraq did not have chemical weapons because the head of the international agency was brazilian. the president of the united states and the prime minister of great britain told the world a lie, saying that there were hemical weapons in iraq. and saddam hussein was lying to the world, pretending that he ad them.

when saddam hussein could have saved his country from the u.s. invasion by asking for international presence to inspect. so two lies. the lie by the u.s. government saying there's chemical weapons sandrkt lie by saddam hussein pretending that he had them. well, these have led to the destruction of a country without resolving the problem of terrorism in the world. i think it was a great shame. it was a shame and so many years have gone by, and to this day, no one has been able to show anything of chemical weapons in iraq. it seems to me that the only chemical weapons were just him

pretending that there were, and then terrorism goes on. amy: president lula, what is your assessment of president onald trump? >> i don't have an assessment. i think it's very unusual that there's a president of the republic of the most powerful country of the world who overns the country by twitter. find that very interesting. but in any event, i have to respect him because he's elected by the people of the united states. and if he was elected by the people of the united states, his he is going to serve term as he wishes, because the people of the united states gave him the authority to do o. i cannot be sitting in judgment of how trump governs.

he governs in his way, and we'll see thousand goes. amy: your thoughts on president trump calling africa, haiti, and other countries, well, he calls africa a country, s-hole countries? >> i think that if a person behaves that way in discussing relations with sister countries, then i don't think a person would be qualified to the president of the country, ven if in the united states. the force countries that have no chance of growing economically must be treated with great respect. amy, let mel tell you one thing. if the -- let me tell you one thing. if the rich countries, especially the united states, who have already spent more

to resolve lion the 2008 financial crisis with the bankruptcy of lehman brothers, instead of having used part of that money to help the countries of africa to develop, had they done so, certainly africa would be growing more, creating more jobs, strengthening democracy, and improving the lives of the eople. the first meeting we had of the g-20 in london, there we suggested that the rich countries should make investments in the poor so as to create new industrialized regions in the world and new consumers in the world.

unfortunately, the rich countries have turned to protectionism once again and took a lock time to resolve the crisis of 2008. amy: i wanted to read for you from the press. it says the controversial visit and meeting of two branches of government, the brazilian government, was reported in the brazilian media. in effect, last saturday afternoon, the president made a visit to the head of the federal supreme tribunal at her residence and was not conducted as part of the president's official schedule. i believe they were seen hugging. the visit took place five days after supreme judicial -- the visit took place five days after the supreme try junal justice allowed police to investigate the president's financial records. the first time in the history of brazilian republic that an

acting president has had his financial records opened by judicial order. this was happening at about the same time that reports emerged that the u.s. special counsel, robert mueller, is looking into trump family finances. but i wanted to ask you about this, because it's this supreme court in brazil that will also be determining your fate. is that right, president lula? >> look, first, i think that the president can meet with justice carmen lucia, either at her office of the supreme court or his office in the presidency. but they apparently had a secret meeting. we d, amy, near brazil, need to re-establish the functions of the institutions ere in brazil.

politics is becoming channeled into the courts and the courts re becoming politicized. and each institution needs to go back to normalcy, to judiciary, to the supreme court s a guarantor of the institution, executive branch -- es out and the ledge legislative branch legislates f. we were to have a respectful and harmonious relationship, then we can have brazil go back to normalcy. , abnormal things have happened. judges talking on television every day.

there's a process of disrespecting institutions in razil. on of the judiciary is strike. they want a housing allowance of almost 4,600 real, and these 30,000 reals per month, so they don't need a housing allowance. like the brazilian population who have no home. those people need housing ssistance. so i have the conviction, amy, i am certain that it is possible to re-establish harmony in brazil. i'm certain that it is possible

to go back to a climate like we had in 2010, 2009 with everyone living harmoniously, people talking among one another, and everybody living democratically in diversity. amy: president lula, you could be arrested at any point. hat will you do? >> i cannot be arrested at any moment. is thing about any moment a desire on the part of my adversaries and my enemies. i can only be arrested if someone proves that i have committed a crime. i am certain, amy, as i speak with you right now, i have perfect peace of mind as compared to who are leveling accusations against me.

i have the peace of mind of the innocent. i can rest assured that i have the paes of mind of those who are innocent and those who have who bring accusations against me knowing they are doing so on the basis of a lie, and therefore, i don't think that they are able to place their head on their pillow at night and sleep with the tranquility that i sleep with every day. amy: even if you continue to say you're innocent, a judge has -- a court has ruled that you are guilty and face, what, nearly 10 years in jail. so even if you disagree with both the conviction and the appeal being denied, that has taken place. would you resist arrest? would you resist being jailed? >> no. i'm working based on the hypothesis that there will be justice before having to make

such a decision. the only ced, because thing that i'm looking for at this time is for them to judge my trial on the merits. the supreme court and the appellate court cannot let stand an untruth against the truth. amy: luiz inacio lula da silva, president of brazil from 2003 to 2010. brazil, the sixth most populous country in the world. lule is now running again for president. he is the current front-runner, unless the courts stop him and send him to jail. special thanks to charlie roberts. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who

appreciate the closed captioning email your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to: democracy now!

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ -today on " america's test kitchen"... bridget and julia share the secrets to the ultimate beef tenderloin... jack challenges bridget to a tasting of turkey... and dan makes julia foolproof turkey breast en cocotte with pan gravy. it's all coming up right here on "america's test kitchen". "america's test kitchen" is brought to you by the following. -i've always been a big believer in knowing