04/09/18 04/09/18 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! pres. trump: we will be coming out of syria very soon. let the other people take care of it now. very soon. very soon we are coming out. amy: just days after president trump now to withdraw troops from syria, tension in the war-torn country has escalated again. overnight, israeli fighter jets bombed a syrian air base used by iran. on saturday, suspected chemical weapons attack killed at least 60 people in the town of douma. president trump's warning russia and syria that will be a big price to pay. we will speak with journalist glenn greenwald about syria,

israel's deadly attacks on palestinian protesters in gaza, and the political crisis in brazil. on saturday, former brazilian president luiz inacio lula da tova turned himself in police on a controversial corruption conviction that will likely prevent him from running in this use presidential election. >> i'm going to attend the mandate so they won't say tomorrow that i am a fugitive and that i am hiding stuff. i'm what a let them know that i am not afraid and that i am going to prove my innocence. amy: today, glenn greenwald from brazil for the hour. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the u.n. security council is meeting today to discuss the

crisis in syria, including a deadly alleged chemical weapons attack over the weekend that killed dozens of people. early this morning, israeli war planes reportedly bombed a syrian air base used by iranian forces. there are reports 14 died in the strikes, including iranian nationals. israel is said to have launched the raid from lebanon's airspace. the israeli bombing came after a suspected chemical weapons attack killed at least 60 people in the syrian town of douma, the last rebel-held town in eastern ghouta. the syrian opposition blamed the assad government for carrying out the attack on saturday, but syria denies having any role. the chemical attack came one day after syrian forces launched an air and ground assault on douma. while international officials are still investigating what happened, president trump took to twitter to directly accuse russian president vladimir putin of playing a role. he wrote -- "president putin, russia and iran are responsible for backing

animal assad." trump went on to warn there would be a "big price to pay." this all comes as today marks john bolton's first day as president trump's national security adviser. we'll have more on the updates in syria after headlines. in gaza, hundreds of mourners gathered saturday to the funeral of the palestinian journalist yaser murtaja, who was fatally shot by the israeli army while covering protests along the israel-gaza border friday. photos showed the dirty-year-old journalist was wearing a flak jacket, clearly marked "press" at the time he was shot dead. he is one of at least nine palestinians who were killed by the israeli army during its brutal crackdown against friday's protest. the palestinian health ministry says 31 people in total have been killed since palestinians kied o a s week long nonviolent protest late last month dubbed the great march of

return. 's brotherser murtaja speaking after his brother's killing. >> i was next to him at the protest, turning the journalist was very clear to the point that they targeted the two of us and gas using snipers bombs. amy: meanwhile, israeli defense avigdor lieberman has drawn outrage for saying there are no innocent civilians in gaza. on sunday, lieberman told israel's public radio "there are in gazaent people strip. everyo is connecd to hamas. everyone gets a salary from hamas. all of the activists trying to breach the border are hamas military wing activists." both the international criminal court of the united nations have rebuked israel in recent days and warned its actions on the border with gaza can violate international human rights conventions. we will have more on the protests in gaza later in the broadcast. in brazil, former brazilian

president luiz inacio lula da silva has turned himself in to police and has begun serving a 12-year prison sentence for a highly controversial corruption conviction. his surrender came after a two-day standoff, during which he spent the night in sao paulo's steelworkers union building to avoid his incarceration. it comes after the supreme court rejected lula's bid to stay out of jail while he appealed his conviction, effectively removing him from brazil's presidential election later this year, where he was the front-runner. we'll go to brazil for more on lula's jailing later in the broadcast. we will speak with the intercept's co-founder glenn greenwald. u.s. officials say north korea said its leader kim jong-un will be prepared to discuss denuclearization during a proposed upcoming meeting with president trump in may. the meeting, if it takes place, will be the first time a sitting u.s. president has met with a north korean leader. kim jong-un is also slated to

meet with his south korean counterpart, president moon jae-in, in a face-to-face gathering at the so-called truce village in the demilitarized zone on april 27. in the united states, the immigration and customs enforcement agency, known as ice, has carried out its biggest workplace raid in a decade, arresting nearly 100 immigrants working in a meat-processing plant in rural tennessee. thursday's raid against southeastern prosion came after ice agents raided 7-eleven stores nationwide. this is the son of one of the workers arrested in the raid, speaking at a news conference on plant in rural tennessee. saturday. >> my dad was supposed to come home when i came home from .chool he did everything with me. he played soccer.

he helped me with homework. he did everything. this to help us and pray for everybody that doesn't have their families. amy: texas has deployed 250 national guard troops to the u.s.-mexico border, following president trump's announcement last week he would send troops there. arizona has also announced it will send 150 national guard troops. the national guard soldiers will not have the power to arrest people trying to cross the border without authorization. critics say the presence of the national guard will free up order virtual to do heavier policing and establish more checkpoints and patrols. president trump had initially called for active-duty military members to be deployed to the border, not national guard . environmental protection agency administrator scott pruitt is facing increasing scrutiny after the associated press revealed the agency has spent nearly $3 million on pruitt's security

detail alone, including 18 full-time agents. the epa and president trump have claimed that pruitt has faced death threats. but an investigative reporter with buzzfeed filed a freedom of information act request with the epa seeking all records of death threats against pruitt. the epa's response was that there are zero records of death threats against pruitt. cnn is reporting president trump is preparing for a possible interview with special counsel robert mueller in the ongoing investigation into whether trump's campaign colluded with russia to sway the 2016 election. trump has not yet officially agreed to the interview. meanwhile, the senate foreign relations committee has announced mike pompeo's confirmation hearing as secretary of state is scheduled for thursday. in hungary, far-right-wing prime minister viktor orban won a third consecutive term after leading a xenophobic, anti-immigrant campaign. during sunday's elections, orban's party won two-thirds of the seats in parliament, giving him even more power to reshape

hungary's constitution. this is prime minister viktor orban speaking sunday. >> there is a big battle behind us. we have won a crucial victory and got a chance, gave ourselves a chance to defend hungary. amy: in paris, protesters gathered sunday to denounce the visit of saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman and the ongoing saudi-led war in yemen. the crown prince and french president emmanuel macron met for dinner at the paris's louvre museum sunday night, even as macron is facing increasing pressure to reduce france's military support for saudi arabia and the ongoing war. this is sadek alsaar, the head of the group salam for yemen, which organized the protest. hasolt the embargo which caused a lot of deaths, nearly 10,000 people, one third of which are civilians. more than 63,000 children have died due to the embargo. several from those deaths from

combat. we're taking advantage of the visit to say stop the massacre, upon theembargo yemenis. amy: the united nations is continuing to warn of a worsening humanitarian crisis in the democratic republic of the congo, saying 4.5 million have been displaced and 2 million children are facing severe malnutrition amid a surge in violence as president joseph kabila tries to hold on to power, more than a year after the end of his term. this is filippo grandi, the united nations high commissioner for refugees, appealing for more international aid. >> i want to make a strong appeal to the international community. africa is far away. it is far away from the rich countries. many of these refugees will not track for thousands of miles and cross the sea and arrive in europe through my the world of their existence as the syrians did come as others did. they stay here. they suffer here, but there are equally in need. amy: the united nations is

slated to hold a major donor conference next week to raise funds for the democratic republic of the congo. president kabila's administration is boycotting the event and denying his country is facing a humanitarian crisis. in canada, kinder morgan has suspended most of its work on the $5.8 billion trans mountain pipeline following massive indigenous-led protests against the project. if built, the pipeline would triple the amount of oil flowing from alberta's tar sands to the coast of british columbia. kinder morgan now says that if legal challenges are not resolved by may 31, it will andon plans to build the proposed pipeline. in indonesia, the port city of balikpapan has declared a state of emergency after a massive oil spill spread along the coast of the island of borneo, killing five people and contaminating an area larger than the city of paris. the indonesian oil and gas company pertamina has admitted the oil spill began after one of its underseas pipes burst. meanwhile, in the united states in south dakota, an oil spill from the keystone pipeline last november has turned out to be twice as big as initially reported. new data shows more than 400,000

gallons of crude oil spilled onto farmland -- twice the amount reported by keystone pipeline owner transcanada last year. the popular motivational speaker tony robbins has been forced to issue an apology about his comments on the me too movement after a video went viral of a sexual abuse survivor confronting him at his speech last month after robbins claimed women use the me too movement to gain significance by playing the victim. this is a clip of the video, in which nanine mccool confronts tony robbins. >> [indiscernible] consider what the impact is. look at these people. anger is not environment. [indiscernible] stuffing wrong with that, just will make them happy. >> you are in influential man.

[indiscernible] disservice.g a [indiscernible] >> some people misuse it. amy: after widespread outrage, robbins issued a statement reading, in part -- "my comments failed to reflect the respect i have for everything tarana burke and the #metoo movement has achieved. i apologize for suggesting anything other than my profound admiration for the #metoo movement." meanwhile, in india, actress sri reddy staged a high-profile #metoo protest on saturday, marching to the offices of the telugu film chamber of commerce in hyderabad, where she took off her shirt to denounce sexual harassment in the indian film industry. she is one of several indian actresses who have come forward

in recent weeks to say they have been touched without their consent, sexually harassed, and forced to demean themselves to get work in the industry. comedian bill cosby is heading to court today in pennsylvania, where he's facing a retrial on criminal sexual assault charges that he drugged and sexually assaulted andrea constand, the former director of operations for the women's basketball team at temple university, at cosby's home in 2004. constand is one of about 60 women who have accused cosby of sexual assaults dating back decades. last summer, a jury deadlocked over whether to convict the comedian on three counts of aggravated indecent assault in constand's case. and in new york city, one person has died after a fire tore through parts of trump tower saturday. six firefighters were also injured battling the blaze. new details revealed there was no sprinkler system in the apartment of 67-year-old resident todd bressler who died from the fire. "the new york daily news" reported as a real estate developer, donald trump help lead the effort against

legislation that would have required spread -- sprinklers in a residential buildings in new york city. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. we begin today's show in syria were israeli f-15 bomber jets have reportedly bombed a syrian air base used by iranian forces. there are reports 14 died in the strikes, including iranian nationals. israel is said to have launched the raid from lebanon's air space. the bombing came a day after a suspected chemical weapons attack killed at least 60 people and wounded more than in the 1000 syrian town of douma, the last rebel-held town in eastern ghouta. the syrian opposition blamed the assad government of carrying out the attacks but syria denied having any role. the chemical attack came one day after syrian forces launched an air raid and ground assault on douma.

amy: while international officials are still investigating what happened, president trump took to twitter to directly accuse russian president vladimir putin of playing a role. he wrote -- "president putin, russia and iran are responsible for backing animal assad." trump went on to warn that would be a "big price to pay." the u.n. security council is meeting today to discuss the crisis in syria. the u.s.-u.n. ambassador nikki haley is called for an independent investigation of the chemical weapons attack. meanwhile, in washington, d.c., today, it marks john bolton's first day as president trump's national security advisor. we had now to rio de janierio, brazil, where we are joined by pulitzer prize-winning journalist glenn greenwald, one of the founding editors of the intercept. later in the broadcast, we will talk with glenn about the latest in brazil, the jailing of lula, the killings in gaza. the first, to syria. can you talk about the latest in

syria, the chemical weapons attack? president trump blaming the attack on assad in a believe naming in a a tweet putin for the first time. >> obviously, these of chemical weapons in any instance is horrific. it is a war crime. it is heinous. it ought to be strongly condemned by everybody. i think that the evidence is quite overwhelming that the perpetrators of this chemical weapons attack as well as previous ones is the assad government. in war, there are lots of reasons to doubt and we certainly should not run off and make hasty decisions until there is a real investigation. i think the more important question at the moment is, what is the actual solution? obviously, what is happening in syria has been a horrific human

a trend crisis filled with war crimes committed by pretty much every actor there will stop the assad government has killed more than any other. the question is, what solutions do you think are viable? do you think having israel fly fighter jets over syria and bomb whoever they decide is their enemy is something that is really going to help the humanitarian crisis? as israel slaughters innocent protesters and uses snipers to end the lives of journalists, do you think that netanyahu is going out the situation in syria? do you think donald trump is going to be able to command a military action that is going to do any good for the people of syria? does anyone think that would be the goal of trump's military action or the united states government revving up its war machines that would end up helping the syrians? i think we have ought to have learned the lesson right now that when we cheer for the action in the middle east

because we have been emotionally manipulated to be angry about some genuinely horrific act, he does not end up doing anything other than make us feel good and it usually ends up making the situation worse. i think it is possible and necessary to express moral outrage at the chemical weapons and other attacks on syrian civilians, while at the same time remaining sober and rational and careful about how we allow our emotions to be funneled and channeled in order to try and come up with solutions. i think we ought to have extreme amounts of skepticism over the idea that donald trump and benjamin netanyahu were nato powers are going to intervene in syria in a way that is going to be good in any way for syrian civilians. juan: this chemical attack and also the israeli bombing comes only a few days after an unusual summit was held in ankara between president clinton and the leaders of turkey and iran

over the situation -- president and theoro putin leaders of turkey and iran over the situation. i'm wondering your sense of these larger powers battling over what happens in syria. with thes a problem debate over syria, which is there are two sides that try and simplify it. has polarized and divided many political factions, probably the principal one being the left. where there are these two competing narratives. on one hand, assad is the only war criminal in syria, that he is the sing of a problem and that removing him will solve everything. then the other side, the idea being that assad is the only thing standing in between al qaeda and isis and other religious fanatics taking over syria, slaughtering minorities, when the reality is that for

many years it has been a proxy war between all kinds of powers, including russia, iran, the united states, saudi arabia, and many others. ist is happening in syria always incredibly complicated. the tendency to try and simplify it as a way to impose this moral merit of honor that makes allusions really easy. hey, just go obama assad does just go bomb assad out of existence. there are lessons to be learned from every war, including the one in iraq. otherafghanistan or in places around the middle east in which the united states and its allies have intervened in the name of humanitarianism that clearly the situation only gets worse, not better, the more western powers intervene. i think that is the principle we need to start with, especially given that any military action from the united states would be led by a person named donald

trump, the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the united states. it has been bizarre over the last 48 to 72 hours watching these two competing themes emerge. on one hand, that donald trump is this morally unfit monster who has dementia and an attention span of a three-year-old and is completely immoral, and on the other hand, this idea that the united states ought to restart a new kind of war in syria led by the very same individual donald trump. whatever you think about syria, is anybody believe that benjamin netanyahu, working with donald trump, is going to do anything other than make the situation infinitely worse at all levels? amy: i want to turn to the ranking member of the senate committee, ben cardin of maryland, who called for an international response to the syrian regime's alleged use of chemical weapons on its own people saturday. cardin was interviewed by face the nation host margaret brennan.

>> there needs to be an international response. this is against international norms -- >> a military one? >> first and foremost, president assad is to be held responsible for his war crimes. >> he hasn't been in seven years. >> we need to make sure there is a proceeding started by the international community to hold him responsible. this is not the first use of chemical weapons. secondly, congress passed very strong sanctions against both russia and iran. the syrian regime under president assad cannot exist without russia's support and the activities of iran. the united states, and international community, need to take action against russia and iran for what they're doing in syria. amy: that is democratic senator ben cardin of maryland, senate foreign relations committee. if you can respond to that and also then move into john bolton

today, first day as national security adviser. interestingly, back in, what, 2013, at the time of the sarin attack were believed the u.s. said something like 1400 people were killed, among the more than was on foxn, bolton and said "i think of our member of congress, i would vote against an authorization to use force here. i don't think it is america's interest. i don't the we should in effect take sides in the syrian conflict." this was during the obama years. but if he could respond to both. >> i think it illustrates this immense irony and also this really important and often under noted shift in american politics. you have benjamin cardin saying marco rubio and i commend marco rubio being one of the most in the entires united states congress, wanting

to go to war with everybody, having spent eight years accusing obama of being weak against every u.s. adversary because he did not bombing of even the obama bombed a countries. you have entering cardin and marco rubio -- you have marco sayingnd benjamin cardin marco rubio and i demand united states government and the international community do something about assad, do something against russia. on the other hand, you have democrats who revere barack obama. what did barack obama do during the eight years of his presidency when it came to what was happening in syria or the last five or six years since the civil war in syria? obama took exactly the opposite position. he said, we're not going to get involved in cereal. we are not going to devote efforts to regime change. the cia under obama did spend

roughly $1 billion a year to arm and train syrian rebels but nowhere near enough to actually overthrow assad, just enough to keep the were going because obama was very afraid of confronting russia in and also of the chaos that would ensue if assad were removed. that was barack obama's position. he allowed four assad to remain in power even though he threatened to remove him if he crossed the line. yet this very kind of ideologically mixed debate that does not follow along traditional right and left lines. donald trump when he ran repeatedly said the u.s. has no who runsin deciding syria. that it is not the business of the u.s., that the u.s. cannot afford to do it, that the u.s. is not when a make the situation better. and you people on the left as well who are saying the west should stay out of syria. then you have these militarists in both parties who are itching always for a new war and see

this as an opportunity to start one. honestly, israel wants assad gone. that is really the shift, the debate that has emerged. the question is, do you think the neocon militaristic foreign policy of the democrats and republicans of the last 15 years when it comes to the middle east has produced good or bad results. if you think good, you should be cheering ben cardin and marco rubio, demanding donald trump existence.out of if you think obama's foreign-policy was better, as i do in this case, which was avoiding confrontation with the russians, not trying to think the u.s. can control syria or military action, then you ought to be opposing this kind of war drum that is being beaten again it would be to donald trump getting involved in syria. as far as bolton is concerned, obviously, bolton is a sociopath. he is one of the most dangerous foreign-policy advisers and officials in the last 15 years. people and the bush and administration who served with

him and served with people like dick cheney and john yoo and donald rumsfeld, actual sociopathic maniacs as well, have said john bolton was probably the most unstable and dangerous person in the bush and administration and now he is about to move into where -- or he is moved into next really flagyl position -- extremely influential position. there is big movement on the right and left to oppose u.s. intervention in syria on the grounds that it is not in use interest of trying to control what is happening in syria. we will see were bolton falls on that. one of its primary dreams in life is to go to war with iran. way tosing assad is one achieve that. he is a loyalist to israel and israel seems to want assad gone, so it is very dangerous right now given who is in power and this pro-war orthodoxy arising almost automatically in washington given how high the

stakes are and how inflammatory the situation is. juan: glenn, john bolton clearly does not need a senate confirmation for his post, but there is a senate confirmation hearing this week regarding mike cia director from to secretary of state. your sense of the impact of the pompeo nomination in terms of foreign-policy, specifically in terms of the middle east? >> well, mike pompeo is pretty much and long has been a standard, traditional house republican under the -- during the obama years. marco rubio and other republican spent years claiming that obama was weak on putin, it's -- insufficiently lecherous stick when it came to confronting what calledlike marco rubi mike pomo jot is him. when he went to the cia, he

became a truck loyalist but also a militarist. he was saying things like russia is a great enemy of the united states. wikileaks is an arm of the russian government and we need to crush it. there is this really bizarre reality and washington, which on the one hand everybody keeps aaiming that trump is really puppet of the kremlin, that he takes orders from vladimir putin. on the other hand, he is surrounded by people who are vehement militarists and anti-russian hawks. people who spent seven years claiming obama was too weak. you have seen trump do things to confront putin that obama refused to do. bombing in a field of assad, not announcing putin -- now denouncing putin. imposing sanctions on oligarchs

close to vladimir putin. this narrative that trump is a puppet of putin the kremlin is able to rid of the u.s. government and controls the was is very much at odds with the reality of what the trump administration is doing and the people who are running foreign-policy in the things that actually believe, and mike pompeo is one of the principal people who illustrates that kind of breach between the narrative and the reality. amy: and pompeo, and very's interviews, has talked about it seems to be syria as a place to confront iran and the whole issue of rex tillerson being for the nuclear deal in iran, but president trump -- and it looks like mike pompeo -- very much against. theeah, i mean, one of --lly dangerous aspects remember when rex tillerson was nominated for secretary of state , he was held up as kind of exhibit "a" as proof that donald

trump was an agent of the kremlin because rex tillerson is the ceo of exxon did a lot of business with russia, as most oil companies obviously would. he was perceived as being friendly with the russian government because it was in the interest of exxon to be friendly with the russian government. as it turned out, rex tillerson was almost like a moderating voice in the administration and that he did favor the continuation of the koran deal, which vladimir putin and russia worked very closely with barack obama and the u.s. in order to facilitate. the fact that he was booted out in exchange for mike pompeo who was much more kind of maniacal when it comes to sticking confrontation in the world, including with putin in russia, again, i think signifies this administration under donald trump has moved away from barack obama's posture of trying to accommodate putin, and moving inard' front in russia

ukraine, especially in syria, and when it comes to iran. the is why, amy, i think whole debate around russia over the last 12 months has been so dangerous because this climate has been created in washington, the premise of which is that vladimir putin and russia are an existential threat to the u.s., that they are our prime enemy and much like the cold war, and we need to confront them further. in any failure on the part of trump to confront putin militaristic leann directly as proof that he did collude with the russians or is an agent of russians and it has created this incentive scheme on part of the trumpet administration to try confront russia even further. it is a very dangerous game to play given that are thousands of missiles with nuclear tips aimed at very cities from the cold war still in place. amy: we're going to go to break.

when we come back, we are going south to where you are, to talk about this historic confrontation this weekend, the former president of brazil lula has gone to jail, although he resisted for a period of time, as many people protested outside and he holed up in a steelworkers union hall where he first launched 40 years ago. we will talk with you about the significance of this and then we will talk about gaza. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: one of the -- the soundtrack in the 2009 film "lula." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: in brazil, former president luiz inacio lula da silva began serving a 12-year sentence for a controversial corruption conviction. after missing a 5:00 p.m. deadline, lula turn himself into police on saturday following a standoff during which he spent the night in the steelworkers union building. lula's supporters gathered

outside, many hoping he would defy orders to surrender. on saturday, lula addressed thousands of his supporters and members of his workers party. >> i am doing a very conscious, very conscious thing. i told the comments that if it depends on my will, i would not go, but i will go. i'm going because they're going to say tomorrow that lula is out of the way, that lula is hidden. no, i am not hiding. i'm going to go the and see their faces so they know i am not afraid. so they know i'm not going to run and so they know i'm going to prove my innocence. they need to know that. i want to go there and tell the delegate i am at your disposal. the history of the next few days will prove that the delegate who accused me was the one who committed the crime. it was the judge who judged me

and the public ministry lied to me. amy: last week, the brazilian supreme court rejected of lula's bid to stay out of jail while he appealed his conviction, effectively removing him from brazil's presidential election later this year, where he was the front-runner. lula is a former union leader who served as president of brazil from 2003 to 2010. during that time, he helped lift tens of millions of brazilians out of poverty. his supporters say the ruling against him is a continuation of the right wing coup that ousted lula's ally, president dilma rousseff, from power last year. faster, dilma rousseff said -- still with is in rio de janeiro glenn greenwald, pulitzer , prize-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of the intercept. can you talk about what happened this weekend, now that former president and current

presidential candidate lula is in prison? >> it is a complicated situation. it is also extraordinary. lula is a singular political force. his political story, there's just nothing like it, the way he came from extreme poverty and illiteracy as a child to roll the fifth-largest country in the world through an overwhelming democratic mandate. to see him in prison is a shock to the system. it is even more disturbing given what has happened. if you look at the last 16 years and brazil, it is so important to keep in mind that the workers party, which lula helped found and then wed, has won four consent of national elections in this country. consecutive national elections in this country. thetwo people who won

selections and became president, lula and the second was dilma. was impeached so she was removed from office even as she was elected president and installed in her place was 70 who never could have won, 70 who has embraced a right-wing ideology that would never have prevailed in any election, so the entire ideology of the country was changed with no election by removing dilma from office, even though she had won two elections. and now lula, who not only one, won but was leading in all polls again and all must a he was going to win, has now been removed from being able to run and put into prison. whatever else is true, there are a lot of factions in brazil that has a dickstein is trying to defeat the workers party of the

ballot box and failed to do so and have now used anti-democratic means -- and peach met in the court system, to destroy the party, to destroy the ability of the two people who have been elected to actually exercise political power. that lulaisn't to say he, becauseor that of his political popularity in the extraordinary achievements that he was able to realize for this country and for tens of millions of people who had been lifted out of poverty under his presidency, that he is above the rule of law or should not be punished if he is actually corrupt. but there are several corrupt cases against lula the world was considered more serious ones, and those have not yet come to trial. nobody should be assuming he is guilty of those things because there has been no trial. one thing he has been convicted of is this tiny little case that everybody considered extremely dubious that has been filled with judicial irregularities,

that clearly is the byproduct of this judicial obsession on the , the headrgio moro judge of the corruption investigation, to put lula in prison. it became a personal fixation on his part. was usedvidence that to convict him and the charge was that lula received a triplex apartment and renovations from a construction company in order to get contracts from petrobras. the evidence is basically nonexienthat lula was even the owner of the apartment or that as judge moro in minute, the renovations were done in connection with petrobras. suspects of reasons to that what is really going on is politically motivated, especially when you consider the numberst there are huge of extremely powerful politicians on the right, quitting the president of this country who was installed dilma. opponent.

those running works truly corrupt. the most corrupt politicians in all of latin america who not only remaifree but in power, he really creates is very strong appearance at whatever else you think of lula and whether he is corrupt, this is not an act of justice, but political vengeance. and a political abuse of the law to remove political enemies and destroy a political party than not been able to defeat at the ballot box. juan: could you talk a little bit about the current president michel temer and the corruption allegations against him and why he still remains as president, meanwhile, dilma was impeached and lula is prevented from running again? >> that is the key question, right? it illustrates exactly what is going on here. i have criticisms of pt. hasink pt is a party that

serious problems with corruption. i interviewed lula and 2016 and asked him that question and he admitted his own party has serious problems with corruption. pt for the reason people are in power, pt created and the lives in order to run the election. they ran with michel temer, part of a centrist party that is a party organized crime. nonetheless, after michel temer was installed as president when dilma was impeached, he got caught on tape -- there is an audio tape the entire country has heard in which he is ordering bribes to be paid to members of his own party in aser to keep them silent part of the corruption investigation so that they don't implicate other people who are closely related to temer. literally, the president of this country got caught on tape ordering bribes to silence witnesses. including the former house

speaker who presided over dilma 's impeachment to the house proceeding the entire world watched and is now in prison because he basically is just a gangster. he is a member of organized crime will stop michel temer order to be prayed bribes in --er to a chair is silence usher his silence. the same people who voted to impeach dilma in the name of fighting corruption, the same people who are today cheering lula's in prison on the grounds that corruption must not be protected and huckabee note impunity, have repeatedly voted to protect michel temer, the president of this country, from any kind of accountability. they won't impeach him. they will not allow the courts to investigate him, even know they heard with their own ears him ordering the bribes. there is a tide of evidence. whatever you think of lula, whatever you think of dilma, of and are valid criticisms of

all of them -- it is impossible to maintain with a straight face what this is about is punishing corruption or subjecting everybody to the rule of law given that the political parties most loved by the elites have been overly protected with very rare exception from far worse acts of lawbreaking criminality and continue to remain in power and run the country. amy: pt is the workers party in brazil. i want to go to the interview i did with lula speaking on democracy now! just a few weeks ago. i asked him about the role of the brazilian press. i was president for eight years. dilma was president for four years. all the pressrs, did was try to destroy my image and her image in the image of my party.

i have more negative subject matter about me in the leading television news program of brazil than all of the presidents in the whole history of brazil. words, it is a daily attempt to massacre me, to tell untruths about lula, about lula's family, and the only weapon that i have is to confront them. they are irritated because after they massacred me for four , any opinion poll by any polling institute showed that lula was going to win the elections in brazil. amy: that is lula on democracy now! glenn, can you clarify the role of the present all of this? and does this mean, him being in

prison now, that he cannot continue to run? but talk about the press. >> sure. this narrative that lula embraces and just articulated in the interview you played with him that you did is one that he has been -- basically he rose to power. the idea that he represents the poor and the marginalized and the powerless in the country against these powerful forces led by the families that control the media. there is a lot of truth to that. the brazilian media is probably the most homogenized, most oligarchical, most propagandistic in any media in any country that i've looked at as a reporter and a journalist, which obviously includes the united states and the u.k. and many in europe. it is incredibly abusive of the journalistic function because of

the tiny number of extremely rich families who control it and have the same interest and use their media out let to propagandize the country. unlike in the u.s. and the u.k. and europe, there has not been the kind of vibrant, well-funded, independent media that has arisen. the internet has opened it a little, but not as much as it needs. so they do continue to exercise, though less power than a decade ago, very stranglehold over public opinion in brazil. lula and dilma are right to say the media was monomaniacal he devoted to the impeachment of dilma and the destruction of pt and the reputation. it is also true that lula became some of comfortable with political power and financial power here in brazil and they came somewhat credible with temer. are immense a little of the democratic party.

lula began as union leader, came from poverty, radical and overtime make compromises in order to moderate his message and gain power. a lot of the oligarchs who went to prison were working hand in glove with pt. this narrative that it is the elites vs. pt is a lot more blurry than lula likes suggest, but the media is corrupt. they use all of their power to undermine the left and to promote free-market candidates because that is who their owners prefer because that is who are good for their owners, and they allow very little dissent. if you listen to brazilian political television, they all are basically endangering their own necks by risking injury constantly nodding with one another. there's an orthodoxy that no other media i know has.

lula out of office -- juan: i want to ask another question before we move on to the situation in gaza. how do you see what is going to happen next? does the workers party have a viable candidate now to run for the presidency? talk about, if you can come in just a few seconds, the right-wing candidate that is being compared to the brazilian trump? now,is is the big question there is a fascist candidate -- actually fascist candidate who is 10 time more extreme than trump on all of those fascist questions who was in the military during the military dictatorship that only ended in 1985 and seems to crave a return of it. he praises the tortures of the military dictatorship and talks about that era as though it is something that we want to return to.

for along time, the like lula was only one who could stop him. he is very high in the polls. he is a lot of support because the country has lost faith in the entire political elite. almostquestion with lula certainly unable to run, who is the left going to unite behind? will benot seem like pt a viable candidate. there are other parties on the left that you have candidates who lula has been praising. i hope the left will unite behind one candidate so it does not divide itself and allow jair bolsonaro to risk winning. but dictatorship could return to this for a large and beautiful country, especially with lula out of the picture. amy: before we go to break, you're wearing a pin. marielloalk about franco? we have talked about her and her assassination just weeks ago.

>> wednesday will mark the one-month of her fascination. she was an extraordinary figure as evidenced by the fact even though she was just a city councilwoman in a city and latin america, her death resonated around the world. the more people got to know about her. she was an incredible inspiration to millions of people throughout result who had traditionally been voiceless. she a remarkable political future ahead of her. she was a very close friend of my husband and myself and her family. .o far there has been no arrest there's some indication the police are making progress, but whoever ordered her killed is free powerful as evidenced by the professionalism of which execution was carried out and it is absolutely crucial that not just the people who pull the trigger but those who order them to do it who are in high powerful places be apprehended as soon as possible. amy: when we come back from break, we will talk about the carnage in gaza. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. juan: on saturday, hundreds of mourners gathered for the funeral of palestinian journalist yaser murtaja who was fatally shot by the israeli army while covering a fresh round of deadly protests along the israel-gaza border. photos show the 30-year-old journalist was wearing a flak jacket clearly marked "press" at the time of the shooting. he is one of at least nine

palestinians killed. the palestinian health ministry says israeli forces have killed 31 people in total since the palestinians kicked off a 6-week-long non-violent protest late last month, dubbed "the great march of return." amy: by the international court and united nations every beat the killing and war and the actions on the border could violate international human rights conventions. we're continuing our conversation with glenn greenwald, pulitzer prize-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of the intercept. can you talk about what is happening the last few weeks with lieberman saying that no gaza and is innocent. amy: -- >> i think it is time to knowledge and accept the reality of what israel is. whatever you thought of israel in the past, believing it was some kind of fashion of liberal democracy in the middle east that it was surrounded by primitive little m&a's dish enemies. it is clear that israel is

something quite different than all of that and even people who once flew that are starting to come and see that israel is an apartheid rogue terrorist state. the conduct that it engages in continually and without apology, proudly, and the comments it makes including the one you just referenced from the defense whoster avigdor lieberman said there are no innocent people in gaza, which is basically the men -- mentality of a genocidal maniac, is elected of what israel is. the context here is a critical which is that a lot of the blood come to realize that benjamin rightahu is this far right bloodthirsty. benjamin netanyahu resides in the center of israeli politics, left. there's for a little political force to his left. all of the political force is to his right. the younger generation of israeli leaders think netanyahu is to moderate, too centrist,.

in adon't believe palestinian state. they don't pretend to support the two state solution. they want to dominate that land forever. they believe they are religiously entitled to it. they want to basically -- they .elieve in apartheid forever suppressing what is soon to be the majority of palestinians ruled by a minority of israelis. using whatever were crimes and slaughter and murder they need in order to suppress and intimidate that population. israeli military gunning down children in 2014 while they played tiger or in the life of a journalist on purpose who is wearing a press check it by putting a bullet in him through a sniper does not change -- shary with the is really government really is, what will? is, all ofn now these people on the left to love to go around urging humanitarian intervention in the west needs husseinassad and saddam

, doesn't the west need to stop the israeli government? at the very released, stop arming it and sending it money and intelligence and providing diplomatic cover? because the western governments that do that led by the u.k. in the u.s., are very much complicit in everything that is being done to the palestinians, which are were crimes and increasingly apartheid and genocide. juan: quickly, the impact of the palestinian nonviolent protest now that are occurring, the constant protest of the people pouring out of gaza to the barrier with israel? how western discourses about what palestinians are permitted to do. palestinians killed troops, israeli troops from occupying their land, which every country in the world with claim the right to do -- is there a russian troops occupying u.s., it would be or do people kill them.

when palestinians killed military soldiers occupying the land they are called terrorists. when palestinians advocate a nonviolent road, of israel in order to press them to in the war, that is called anti-semitism. when palestinians nonviolently protest at the border, they are accused of being agents of the mass who deserve to be slaughtered. the discourse of the west is that palestinians have no right thissist for protest decade-long occupation. they don't have a right to do so violently and no right to do so nonviolently. billy thing western discourse tells palestinians their permitted to do is to acquiesce and submit and obey the dictates of the israeli government. i think the world is finally starting to wake up to the fact that this discourse is incredibly immoral. in that palestinians have just the same rights as everybody else to protest and resist. amy: glenn greenwald, thank you for being with us, it was a prize-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of the intercept.

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