04/25/18 04/25/18 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! pres. trump: it is a bad deal. it is a bad structure. it is falling down. should have never, ever been made. amy: while meeting with french president emmanuel macron, president trump renews his threat to withdraw from the iran nuclear deal, calling it insane, while at the same time directly threatening iran. we will talk about the latest. then we look at the increasing number of women who have suffered a miscarriage and are then forced by their catholic health care provider to bury the fetal remains. >> i want you to know that my

daughter was re-traumatized. she was already devastated by the miscarriage, in that had to be re-traumatized by this coercion of how the provider shows, not how my daughter shows, but how the provider chose to dispose of the fetal remains. amy: plus, we will go to tucson to speak with immigrant rights and reproductive justice activist alejandra pablos who has just been released from 40 days in ice detention. >> we're going to ask the governor to do the right thing and to pardon me and let me stay here without fear. i'm tired of feeling scared. i'm tired of being persecuted for just defending my life. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a federal judge has ruled the trump administration must keep in place daca, that's the deferred action for childhood arrivals program that gives hundreds of thousands of young

undocumented people permission to live and work in the united states. trump tried to cancel daca last year, but judge john bates in washington, d.c., ruled tuesday that trump's efforts to cancel the program were based on virtually unexplained claims. the judge said that if the administration cannot better explain its reasoning, it must continue to accept both new and renewed daca applications. the trump administration has 90 days to respond. it's the third time trump's effort to cancel daca has been blocked by a court. this comes as the supreme court is hearing arguments today about the trump administration's third travel ban, which blocks most people from iran, libya, somalia, syria, and yemen from entering the united states. the supreme court is expected to rule on whether the travel ban is constitutional by the end of june. senate lawmakers have

indefinitely postponed dr. ronny jackson's confirmation hearing as secretary of veterans affairs, even as president trump is continuing to defend jackson, his personal white house physician. on tuesday, montana senator jon tester said jackson is known within the white house as "candy man," because he hands out prescription pills as if they were candy. reports have also surfaced of dr. jackson drinking on the job and once drunkenly banging on the hotel room door of a female employee during an overseas work trip. that was in 2015. the interim director of the consumer financial protection , -- bureau, mick mulvaney, told a group of over 1000 bankers and lobbyists that they should give more money in campaign contributions if they want to weaken the power of the consumer financial protection bureau, which is tasked with regulating the financial industry and major wall street banks. during mulvaney's speech to the american bankers association conference, he also said that,

as a congressman, he would meet only with lobbyists who had given him money. among those who donated to his campaign were payday lenders, who gave him over $60,000. payday lenders are one of the key industries the consumer financial protection bureau has sought to regulate. the united nations is warning of an impending humanitarian catastrophe in the syrian province of idlib, one of the last rebel-held territories in syria, which is also home to at least a million syrian civilians who have been displaced from other parts of the country. this is u.n. high commissioner for refugees filippo grandi. >> the fact remains that it is very difficult to get out of the country, so people get internally displaced. so there are refugees -- they are refugees and the own countries. we have seen it in the most dramatic phase of the offensive. the country is becoming a trap, becoming in some places, a death

trap for civilians. in iraq, women accused of having ties to isis are facing widespread human rights violations inside iraqi refugee camps, including being denied food and health care, being the facing sexual explication, and being refused identification cards that would allow them to travel, work, and enroll their children in school. that's according to a new report by amnesty international, which accuses local iraqi authorities and armed actors inside refugee camps of discriminating against women who are believed to have a family member who collaborated with isis while the group held swaths of territory across iraq, including the city of mosul. the report, called "the condemned," calls on iraqi authorities to end collective punishment of women with perceived ties to isis. israel says it is scrapping its plans to forcibly deport or imprison tens of thousands of african asylum seekers and immigrants living in israel.

the plan had sparked widespread international condemnation and protests inside israel. this is helafom, an immigrant from eritrea. >> for the asylum seekers here in israel, a matter of being deported or imprisoned. it is a time that there should be humanitarian aid for asylum-seekers. amy: in mexico, hundreds of students took to the streets of guadalajara to protest the kidnapping and murder of three university students who went missing five weeks ago while they were filming a school project. >> i am here from the cinema school. we are here to represent and to give the voice to all of the

women, men, and child that are being disappeared a mexico -- doinge're living very big harm to this country. amy: mexican authorities are claiming the students were kidnapped by a cartel and tortured before their bodies were dissolved in acid. authorities have not yet presented sufficient evidence to support this claims. the details of previous mexican government accounts about student disappearances, including the 43 students who are missing from the ayotzinapa teacher's college, have been subsequently disproven. in south africa, multiple unions have called for a nationwide strike today to protest unemployment, economic inequality, and a proposed minimum wage of a mere 20 rand -- or $1.60 an hour. today's mobilization comes as bus drivers in south africa are already on strike. in new york city, agents with the immigration and customs enforcement agency, known as ice, have arrested at least 225 people in a sweeping week-long raid across new york city's five

boroughs and the surrounding areas. dozens of those arrested by ice agents had no criminal record. the raid comes despite the fact that new york city is a sanctuary city. in spokane, washington, a federal judge has blocked the trump administration from defunding planned parenthood programs to help prevent teen pregnancy across the western united states. in judge thomas rice's ruling, he wrote -- "the court finds that hhs -- that's the heath and human services department -- arbitrarily and capriciously terminated the program. the public interest weighs in favor of planned parenthood." in arizona, former republican state senator debbie lesko has won a special congressional election to fill the seat of far-right-wing congressmember trent franks, who resigned last year after multiple female staff members say he asked them if they would give birth to his children because he and his wife were having trouble conceiving. lesko won only a narrow victory over her democratic challenger,

physician hiral tipirneni, in a district that trump carried by over 20 points. meanwhile, vice president mike pence brother is running for u.s. congress in indiana. graduate students at columbia university have launched a week-long strike to demand the right to unionize. striking students say columbia university has refused to bargain with the students, who voted more than a year and a half ago to unionize under the uaw, the united auto workers. the strike comes at the end of the spring semester, when the labor of graduate student teaching assistants and researchers is most essential to the functioning of the university. it also comes only one day after the 50-year anniversary of the launch of the historic, nearly week-long occupation of five buildings, including the president's office and low library, which inspired student protests across the country. to see our full coverage of the historic 1968 columbia student strike, go to our website democracynow.org.

and in pennsylvania, the popular rapper meek mill has been freed from prison after the pennsylvania supreme court ordered him immediately released on bail. mill was sentenced and jailed last november over a parole violation. but the philadelphia district attorney's office, led by larry krasner, has questioned his underlying 2008 conviction would withstand an appeal given he was convicted in part based on a false testimony by the arresting police officer. has spread widespread calls for his freedom, including from jay-z, colin kaepernick, and activists across philadelphia. on tuesday after being released from prison, meek mill florida helicopter by the owner of the philadelphia 76ers basketball team to the basketball stadium where he rang the bell before the playoff game tuesday evening began. and those are some of the

headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president trump threatened to attack iran on tuesday if it restarts its nuclear weapons program, while at the same time hinting he plans to scrap the international deal to prevent iran from obtaining nuclear arms. trump described the deal as insane and ridiculous. iran responded by threatening to pull out of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty if trump withdrawals the nuclear deal. trump made his comments at the white house during a meeting with french president emmanuel macron, who had come to washington in an attempt to preserve the iran deal. trump must decide by may 12 whether the united states should stay in the deal which was agreed to in 2015 by iran, the united states, the united kingdom, russia, france, china, and the european union. pres. trump: there is a chance,

and nobody knows what i'm going to do on the 12th. oh, mr. president coming of a pretty good idea. but we will see. but we will see also if i do with some people expect, whether or not it will be possible to do a new deal with solid foundations. to guess this is a foundations.ayed it is a bad deal. it is a bad structure. it is falling down. should never, ever have been made. i blame congress. i blame a lot of people for it. but it should never have been made. we are going to see what happens on the 12th. but i will say if iran threatens us in any way, they will pay a price like few countries have ever paid. ok? earlier in the day, president trump was asked about what would happen if iran restarted its

nuclear program. pres. trump: it won't be so easy for them to start. they will be restarting anything. if they restart, they're going to big problems, bigger than you've ever have before. you can market down. they restart the nuclear program, they will have bigger problems than they have ever had before. amy: during his visit to the white house, french president macron said he opposes throwing out the existing nuclear deal but said he was open to a new deal with iran to address iran's role in syria and other issues. for a number of months, i've been saying this was not a sufficient deal, but it enabled have at leastto some control of their nuclear activities. we therefore wish from now want to work on a new deal with iran. amy: joining us in washington, d.c., is jamal abdi. he is the vice president for policy at the national iranian american council. welcome to democracy now! the media is making an enormous

deal out of the bromance of president trump and emmanuel macron in this first state visit of the trump administration, and yet when it comes to the iran deal, mccrea and a big supporter of it, president trump has called it insane, threatening to pull out. iran is criticizing president trump and the united states if they pull out. can you explain what is happening here? is the u.s. closer to remain in it or leaving this deal? >> all of the indications right now are that trump is planning to leave the deals on may 12. may 12 is when the next deadline occurs for the united states to continue sanctions, to remain within the constraints of the deal. macron is coming to town sort of a last hope. congress has failed to intervene. congress actually just approved trump the secretary state nominee, who also supports leaving the deal. i think much of washington,

including opponents of the deal, including republicans and commerce who voted against the deal, are sort of looking to macron and later to angela merkel him and to try to save this deal, to try to convince donald trump to not abandon this agreement. was thisink we saw bromance was -- it gave some hope. i think this notion that macron put forward of we're going to get this bigger, better deal, he is sort of speaking a language of trump. think it would be ironic after this president sort of took us to the brink of killing the deal and had the entire world worried about this and worried about going to war with iran and escalation, and it turned out he really just wanted to take over thedeal and rebrand it as trump deal, this bigger, better deal. are the parties -- right now what we're looking at is negotiations among the united

states and the europeans. that is the easy part. we should be able to be on the fourpage with these parties, germany, france, britain, and the u.s. the difficult party, at some point you need to bring in china and russia -- by the way, it ran -- if they're going to be party to any deal. i think right now this is more about trying to convince donald trump away from the brink on may 12, try to buy time, but put ideas in front of him for what is possible but as far as salvaging the deal in getting this bigger him a better deal, i think there's a lot of work that remains to be done and i don't know if this is something that is achievable at this point in time. amy: i want to play two clips of the arena foreign minister javad zarif. this is the interview with "face countryon" saying his may resume the nuclear program if the u.s. pulls out of the landmark 2015 agreement.

he was interviewed by "face the nation" host margaret brennan. >> we have put a number of options for ourselves, and those options are ready, including options that would involve resuming at much greater speed our nuclear activities. envisaged within the deal. those options are ready to be implemented, and we will make the necessary decision when we see fit. >> you are ready to restart your nuclear program if president trump at section spike on it around, even if the rest of the world says don't do this? >> the rest of the world cannot to one sidedly implement a deal that has are ready been broken. amy: also on "face the nation,"

the iranian foreign minister javad zarif was asked about national security advisor john bolton and trump's pick for secretary of state mike pompeo. who is just about to possibly be confirmed by the whole senate. >> pompeo has spoken in the past about striking iran. john bolton, the new national security advisor, has said the goal should be regime change in your country. you think that as national security advisers, they're going to be honest brokers with the president, presenting him with these diplomatic options? >> if that is a diplomatic option. i think -- >> that is what i'm saying. does their appointments make military confrontation more likely or du still see the possibility to negotiate? >> i think the united states has never abandoned the idea of regime change in iran. now they are more explicit by

stating it. to the point is, they used dictators in our region who rely on them. as president trump said, cannot live without your support for two weeks. that is the type of regime that they are used to, and that is why they so readily talk about regime change. they have not been able to impact the decision of the iranian people over the last 40 years. ,my: if you can respond to that the iranian foreign minister? >> there's a lot to deal with their. i think this issue of regime change is really fundamental to this conversation. i don't think john bolton or mike pompeo are seriously interested in negotiations. when mike pompeo was in congress, there were many lawmakers who opposed the iran

deal. there were very few, if any, who talked openly about military operations against iran as being preferable. and whoso sort of disingenuously oppose the agreement. with donald trump and the people around him, the outage was, he doesn't want to kill the deal anymore, he wants to fix the deal. i think this is extremely disingenuous. i don't think it is about fixing anything. the iaea has verified and 10 several reports that iran is complying with this deal. it is not building a nuclear weapon. so when we look at the debate around the negotiations that led to this deal, the opponents of those talks were not really criticizing the substance of the talks were offering any sort of alternative because, really, there was no alternative that was acceptable for them. this was about trying to impose sanctions and we can iran until

the time was right to ask a engage in violent regime change. if u.s. imposed direct still raging change in the end goal, there's no amount of talking between the parties that is going to achieve that goal. i think what we have now is not an attempt by at least pompeo or bolton or trump to try to "fix this deal," this is really about trying to present the united states or tried to salvage this in notion the united states is the reasonable after in this play that we're watching unfold. iran to beto force the party that ends up leaving the deal. because the deal itself is the obstacle. the negotiations are the obstacle. if the goal is violent regime change. so that is where we are. i think the europeans are trying to present this bigger, better

deal -- and maybe trump is reachable. in a vacuum, you look at what has been presented. the u.s. on the brink of killing this deal and then this bigger, better deal been presented. in a vacuum, -- diplomacy is a good thing. diplomacy is much better than the other option. but if the united states is not actually upholding the current deal, if we are not in compliance, if we have not maintained this trust that if you do a deal with us we will live up to it, why on earth would iran subject itself to new negotiations? particularly if the new negotiation in reopening a deal that took years to broker, that involved a very systematic give and take an sort of this perfectly balanced formula in terms of what the parties were giving up, why would iran -- or anyone involved in the deal, frankly, entertain the notion of blowing that up, restarting that process with the united states that has proven that based on

the political whims of the country, it is willing to renege on agreement? i think there is a little bit of wishful thinking going on right now. all of that is to say, when the iranians strict this deal, when the foreign minister about this, even when obama talked about this, this was viewed as potentially the beginning of more negotiations. there are many more negotiations to be resolved between iran and the u.s., between the parties in the region. you see a proxy war in the region going on between the saudis and the iranians. there's a lot of diplomacy to be had. but this nuclear deal was supposed to be the foundation, and we are now seeing that foundation severely eroded. the first step would need to be to actually start gearing to the deal. amy: ollanta turn to john bolton , president trump stay national security adviser speaking last year in paris to members of the iranian exile group.

>> the declared policy of the united states of america should be the overthrow of the regime in tehran. [applause] objectivesr and the of the regime are not going to change. and therefore, the only solution is to change the regime itself. [applause] that -- and that is why before 2019, we hear will celebrate in tehran. thank you. amy: that was john bolton last year. jamal abdi, your response? >> john bolton was delivering a speech to this organization that has been described by state department, human rights watch, ke rand as a cult-li organization that has engaged in terrorism. bolton was taking speaking fees

to speak for this group when they were considered by the united states government to be a foreign terrorist organization. , it is extremely dangerous. they now have access to the white house. they have abused their members. the organization has had operations inside of iraq to try to go into iran to wage the swelling campaigns. and if this is the party that the trump administration is investing in a sort of the iraqi national congress, as was the case in the lead up to the iraq war, i don't think this is going to resonate at all with anybody inside of iran. it is a reviled group ephod alongside saddam hussein. group that fought alongside saddam hussein. i think it is very scary what they may be willing to do in order to frustrate u.s. interest

with iran and potentially try to take the united states into a war a violent regime change against iran. frankly, this terrifying. amy: today the supreme court is taking up the issue of the third travel ban a president trump known as a muslim man. among the countries that -- whose citizens are for bidden to come here is iran. your thoughts on the significance of this? >> it is interesting. if you look at in the context of the nuclear deal, two years later, iran thought they were going to be integrated into the global economy and it would have these benefits. and now we're on the verge of this deal collapsing. ordinary iranians who have no connection to the arena government or any of these issues are now banned from coming to the united states. i'm hopeful be supreme court will strike this band down and find this is a band that was a matter of taking the political

rhetoric that donald trump engaged with on the campaign trail that was anti-muslim and full of hate and try to apply a policy that fit into that rhetoric. that violates the constitution and should be struck down. that being said, the administration has many tools to enforce these bans. we already are using this administrative muslim ban unfold outside of the parameters of the muslim ban. even if the supreme court strikes this ban down, a lot needs to be done, particularly from thomas, to try to rein in this amid assertion and get accountability about how it is -- particularly from this administration, to try to rein in his a administration and get accountability.

operating in a black box that compass has failed to hold accountable. whether it is this congress are hopefully the next congress, the real sort of ban is going to have to take place when the political will is summoned in washington to actually dismantle that ban. the supreme court would be good start. jamal abdi, thanks for being with us vice president for , policy at the national iranian american council. coming up, we will speak to a woman in texas who had a miscarriage and was forced to arrange for burial of the remains. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we turn now to the increasing number of women who have suffered a miscarriage and are then forced by their catholic health provider to bury the fetal remains. last week, a u.s. appeals court declared unconstitutional an indiana law signed by

then-governor, now vice president, mike pence that requires fetuses to be buried or cremated. this comes as texas passed a law last year saying all fetal remains had to be buried or cremated, and also banned donation of that tissue for research purposes. while supporters say the policies are meant to deter women from having abortions, the requirements also impact women who have miscarriages. texas state representative donna howard, who is also a nurse, spoke out against the measure on the texas house floor. >> i want you to know that my daughter was retraumatized -- she was already devastated by the miscarriage, and then had to be retraumatized by this coercion of how the provider chose -- not how my daughter chose -- but how the provider chose to dispose of the fetal remains. amy: in january, u.s. district judge david alan ezra temporarily halted the fetal remains law, but texas attorney

general ken paxton has vowed to continue fighting for it. meanwhile in indiana, the u.s. seventh circuit court of appeals struck down a similar fetal burial rule signed into law by then governor, now vice president, mike pence. for more, we go to austin, texas, where we're joined by the woman who is the daughter who representative howard just referred to in her speech opposing a law requiring fetal burial. blake norton had a miscarriage in 2015 at the seton medical center in austin and was forced to choose whether she would let the hospital bury the remains in a shared grave or arrange for a private burial at her own expense. she is the subject of the cover story in this month's "the texas observer" by sophie novack, who also joins us. her report is headlined "indoctrinated: a catholic hospital in austin forces patients who miscarry to consent to fetal burials. for one woman, that made a painful loss even worse -- and she worries it could soon become

routine across texas." also with us, from boston, is amy littlefield, investigative reporter for rewire.news, where she has reported extensively on the growing impact of catholic hospitals on access to reproductive health care. she's also a former producer at democracy now! welcome all of you. let's begin with blake norton. if you can tell us your story. >> sure. i want to say thank you for sophie and writing the article and for you, amy, and democracy now! in giving me an opportunity to share just one woman's story. three years ago almost to the day, i found out i was pregnant for the first time. i was overjoyed. it was at my 11 week routine ultrasound that i found out two noks earlier the fetus longer had heartbeat. i had never experienced a loss like that.

it is hard to put into words what that experience feels like. we don't talk a lot about miscarriage, so i think that for someone who hasn't been through it, people don't understand quite what that feels like. i think it is also important for me to say my experience is my alone and there are similarities with other women who have been through miscarriage, but what is really important about this is because there are so many variations on an experienced -- with experience on a loss like this. for me, when i found out i had wasarried, i really floored. i did not know what to do. i could not think straight. i had never experienced anything like it. i did not understand at the time what my options really were. it was one day later i was in the hospital. i had not even had 24 hours to process the news when i was at the hospital that my doctor chose because it is where my

doctor had in meeting privileges, through the conversation with my doctor and the prescreening with the hospital the day before, nobody mentioned this burial policy was a part of the requirements. it was only at the moment that i was already connected to iv's and about to be wheeled into surgery i was presented with this one final piece of paper that outlined these two options. the options were i could allow the hospital to provide a mass grave burial with catholic rights or i could take responsibility for the remains and it would be given to me after i had secured my own funeral. you are just given the remains. yet to secure something and then the hospital will release them to you. at the moment, those options both seemed terrifying. in my experience, a lot of people struggle to understand, why would know what something like that? i think the simplest answer is in that moment, my personal

grief, neither one of those options felt like they were honoring any part of my experience. i did not yet know how to comprehend what i was going through. having either of these options forced on me was really horrific. i was given the option of speaking with the chaplain, which i did not to do, or speaking with a social worker. the outcome of those conversations was, well, this is what you have to do if you want to continue with this procedure. that point, i felt like i needed to have the procedure done. i did not feel like i could go back home and not have completed this surgical procedure. so i did not feel like i had an option. in that moment, i elected for what felt like was going to be ,he least painful of the two which was to allow for an anonymous aerial that the hospital would be responsible

for and that i would not have to be notified about so that i could go on with ilife and grieving my loss in my own way, the way that made sense to me and to my husband. when i had the opportunity to share my story in an article revisiting this -- sophie, i'm sure you can ensure more about the things you uncovered. amy: sophie novack, you did this piece for "the texas observer." tell us what you found out about the miscarried fetus of blake norton. >> sure. a little bit of context first, i had been following the law that was passed in texas last session, which would require the burial or cremation of all fetal remains from abortions and miscarriages that occur in medical facilities. that was the backdrop for this. i heard very briefly representative donna howard,

blake's mom, image and her daughter's experience. i kind of -- my ear perked up. this isn't a law yet, what happened here? after meeting with lake and representative howard, got basically blake's experience is in it was my job to kind of fit that into what was going on here. discovered that it is ac family policy, which means that all of the seton hospitals in the .ustin area have this policy amy: and it is a catholic hospital? >> it is. it is part of the world's largest catholic hospital system. so i discovered this is a policy that many, many women are experiencing and in fact it actually goes back at least 10 years that seton has been doing

this. in looking at that, i spoke with some doctors at the hospital and discovered there are a lot of folks that work at the hospital that really don't agree with this policy because they have seen how it has impacted their patients, that it causes a lot of distress either because it is against the religious beliefs of the patient or against the patient's personal wishes, like in blake's case. i talked to some doctors and got a hold of the copy of the policy , and have been digging into this and then discovered where seton was sending the fetal remains to be buried. it is a cemetery in south austin. i visited there. this was particularly shocking to me. went into the office and asked where i would find the fetal remains from seton are buried

and was asked what the mother's name is. so i kind of hesitated and gave them blake's name and they directed me to the grave where the remains of her pregnancy were buried. amy: was it an individual grave? >> it is not. it is a shared grave. every few months, seton since the remains of all of the miscarriages that occurred in that time period together to the cemetery, and they are blessed -- excuse me, they are buried in one plot and blessed by a chaplain at a catholic cemetery. amy: is there some kind of marker? >> there is. there are markers on each grave. they are lined up in a row and each marker says "baby angels" on it and the date that those remains were buried, and then they each have different quotes or things engraved in them. it is a catholic cemetery, so

leaving ornaments like crosses on the burial that marks -- excuse me, the marker that marks where these remains are buried it has the virgin mary etched into stone. amy: blake norton, when he learned this from sophie, what was your reaction? .> i was shocked of course, my understanding have been this was going to be anonymous. howie was really kind and she approached me. she knew i had not wanted to be further notified about where these remains were taken, and at the same time what she had the information, of course, wanted me to be able to access it if i wanted. was pretty 4 -- horrifying to feel like my privacy have been violated that my name was now tied with this burial site. explain tofor me to

people who believe this is the way you honor loss, i think it is hard for me to explain why this feels so violating to me. one thing that is helpful is to remember -- just one way that isple cope with miscarriage by being able to remind ourselves that this is just tissue, this was not compatible with life, that this was a pregnancy loss, not a baby. that is one way. many other women find comfort in being able to grieve the loss of their baby and identify themselves as mothers and are comforted to know grace like this exist. i won't women like that to have that option. i think that every person who experiences a pregnancy loss for any reason should have options that are in line with how they need to cope. for me, this has continued to stir up my own trauma from the

experience because part of how i was able to go on and get pregnant again was by reminding myself this is just a pregnancy loss. i did not lose a baby. that was my way of being able to get through that experience. so i think part of why this has been so hard for me is that it has continued to force this idea on the of how i'm supposed to think about this part of the loss. supposed tong -- identify that tissue as a mother, that i'm supposed to think about it as a living, breathing, baby. that, i want women to have right and that option and to be treated with dignity and respect if that is how they choose to grieve, and also what room and space and compassion for grieving and my own way. >> just to add onto that if i made, just a little bit of context is that that is, in fact, an option for women in

texas already. there was a law passed in 2015 take thews patients to remains of a pregnancy after they have miscarried from the hospital to arrange a burial if they choose to do so. so that option does exist for patients. this new law would basically take that choice away from women, from patients that are not interested in that. amy: just to be clear, sophie novack, miscarriage rates, something like 15%, 20% of all pregnant women? >> that's right. i will also add the majority of miscarriages do occur before 20 weeks, which is where this seton policy comes into place. in texas, after 20 weeks, there are already regulations in place in terms of how the remains from pregnancy has to be disposed.

amy: what happens with abortion? law?der current amy: yes. >> the law that was passed last your would require this policy for both miscarriages and abortions. that law is currently blocked in court and there will be a trial this summer to determine whether it can move forward. amy: i would to bring amy littlefield into this conversation. you have looked at laws like this in other states, particularly in indiana. significant because it is the state of the vice president, who is governor of indiana. can you talk about what happened there? >> absolutely. i just want to note, this is a nationwide issue that catholic hospitals make up a growing share of the medical landscape. one in six hospital beds in this country are in a catholic hospital. burialt just see fetal

practices like what were just described, but restrictions on a .road range of restrictions governor pence, now our vice president, signed one of the most sweeping anti-choice laws ever seen in the united states. among other provisions, a required burial or cremation of all aborted or miscarried remains. just last week, a federal appeals court affirmed that law was unconstitutional. it turned out that for years, before pence son-in-law, a catholic hospital in the state had already been imposing religious beliefs on patients by coercing, bullying, and shaming them into bearing their miscarried fetuses in a shared plot, similar to what exists in texas will stop i think this is important because i think there is a pattern that we saw in taxes that we also see an indiana where these catholic

hospitals impose their religious beliefs on patients, often causing great harm and trauma or even putting lives at risk in some cases, and then with the extremist politicians like pence and the lawmakers in texas and enshrine his religious practices into law. given the blessing of law. rather than interfering to protect patients in these cases. a look at the case of a woman named kate marshall who in 2015, a store similar to blake's, she found out she had lost her pregnancy at 11 weeks. the fetus no longer had a heartbeat. the doctor scheduled surgery to remove the remains. she scheduled it in a catholic hospital. kate didn't really have another option at that point. as she is lying in her hospital bed, naked under her down, looked up to an iv and a feeling vulnerable, grieving her pregnancy, a chaplain comes in and trust are pressure her to sign a form allowing this

fetus in a bury the cemetery plot. kate already had another plan. she and her doctor had decided defend the remains for testing to find out what had cost her miscarriage because what she wanted more than anything was to have a baby. that to thed chaplain but he did not think that was a valid reason for her to decline this barrel program. he kept pushing her. she had to ask him to lead five times before he finally dead. another chaplain then came in. this chaplain asked her to sign this form. when kate declined again, the chaplain told her that she would reamins toher baby's -- flush pile.sue refuse amy: she stood by her believes and did not sign? >> she did.

it was a very traumatic experience. her sister was in the room and remembers watching kate sobbing, shaking, crying, devastated that not only has she just lost this much one of pregnancy, but a chaplain came in and used his religious believes and the hospital's religious beliefs to shame her about her medical decision-making, which should have been her private choice. that is not where you want to be shaking, sobbing, crying as you are being wheeled into surgery. she did stand by her believes. she was able to get the testing done. she was later able to get pregnant and carry the pregnancy to term. it actually is pregnant about a year later, she watched as mike pence and the indiana legislature an acted this bill that in r words would have made what she experienced at this catholic spital in two law and maket a lot the la. and force it on everyone statewide.

we see this pattern where th catholic hospitals, instead of bein checked by the sta with these abuses of patients under the guise of religion, or the state is empowering them and giving their behavior the blessing of law. amy: you wrote a piece headlined "woman of color more likely to give birth in hospitalshere catholic beliefs hinder care." how does that impact what we're talking about today? >> i think this is a really important piecef the national conversation going on right now around black maternal mortality. it turns out that women of color disproportionately bear the burden of these restrictions on catholic health care. it is worth noting catholic hospitals don't just impose fetal burial on patients, they restrict access to contraception, abortion, fertility treatments, gender affirming care for transportations. and because of the restrictions on abortion, oftentimes when women come in in the

life-threatening process of losing her pregnancy, if the fetus still has a heartbeat, the catholic hospital will not terminate and this can lead to life-threatening and damaging scenarios for patients. we have to keep that in mind only think about the fact nationwide, 53% of births and catholic hospitals are to women of color. in some, it is even more stark. are to women, 80% of color and catholic hospitals. if you go to the hospital in the process of losing a pregnancy and and oven is life-threatening situation where they're not going to tree you -- i can give you an example of reported on. i spoke with a doctor and jessica ralph in wisconsin, one of the five states in the country where 40% or more of hospital beds are catholic. she worked in a hospital that was also part of the biggest nonprofit hospital system in the united states.

she treated a patient who was in the process of losing a twin pregnancy at 18 weeks. they knew the pregnancy was doomed. one of the twins had been stillborn, but the other still had a heartbeat. jessica was placed in the position of having to sit and watch until this patient was sick enough that she could intervene to save her life. under the hospital's interpretation of the catholic religious directives, unless the patient was running a fever or hemorrhaging or showing other signs of severe illness, she could not help her. for 10 hours she had to wait until the patient spiked a fever and was really sick and then she could intervene. but her ability to provide adeqte care was hindered by the catholic beliefs at this hospital. no doctors were trained to provide the surgery. she cannot offer medication to help speed up the process because the catholic hospital did not carry it. th than 24 hours and needing a

blood transfusion. meanwhile if she had gone five miles away to a freighter hospital, she would have been able to have surgery and had those options presented to her right away. i bring this up because this hospital where the patient was, st. joseph's, is in a primarily african-american neighborhood. a lot of patients are going in a viewing that as the neighborhood hospital are black. including this patient whose story it just described. when we think about the way this burden falls on people, a falls on the most marginalized patients. women of color are disproportionately affected by that post of income last review a lawlls court declared that requires fetuses to be buried or cremated. that's right. i think important piece of that, we saw mike pence when he was governor of indiana, really impose religious views on the state and more than one way.

he sign this legislation that report fetal burial or cremation effectively enshrining in the lobbies extreme religious practices of catholic hospitals. he also rhetorically signed this order empowering businesses in indiana to discriminate against lgbtq people. with pence at the helm of a lot of these religious policies, we are seeing a lot of these extremist beliefs thing and acted on to the national population, onto all of us. we saw that in january, for example, when the trump-penza administration, their office of health and hum services opened a new office of what they call religious freedom and conscience . we call it in office of discrimination. they're basically welcoming any providers who have religious or moral objections to things like trading lgbtq patients or providing reproductive health services to bring their

complaints to the trump administration because they want to hear them and they want to stand by them. they're saying, we have got your back. i think we have to be concerned about this record that pence has an indiana that -- i think with pence at the helm, unfortunately, we're marching closer and closer to the opera scene. it is a real concern, especially when your people talking about impeachment. amy: into thank you for being with us. we will continue to follow the story and link to your pieces, amy, at rewire. news. amy littlefield is an investigative reporter for rewire. i want to thank sophie novack with google the texas observer" and i want to thank blake norton. when we come back, we i will be speaking with alejandra pablos who was detained by ice and just released. stay with us.

♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we end today in arizona, where immigrant rights and reproductive justice activist alejandra pablos has been freed from the for-profit eloy detention center, where she was detained for more than 40 days after she reported to a routine ice check-in on march 7. advocates say she was detained in retaliation for her activism, . alejandra pablos is a reproductive justice and immigrant rights activist she is going to tell us how you achieved your freedom? >> thank you, everyone.

thank you to the community is supported me throughout these 40 days. basically, i was in your detention center because trump has his own personal police force, which is ice, and acting all of his was a premises agenda. all of our community are being deported, especially working people like you said, activist. i was simply detained because of an arrest at a peaceful protest in virginia. i have not even been convicted. i was fighting for my redetermination of custody. amy: talked about where you were taken and then the e.u. eloy detention center. this is a place you were held in for two years, years ago. describe the conditions there. >> absolutely. since i have been gone for five years, it has only gotten worse. i think cca, now corecivic, has made it easier to treat folks like prisoners.

even worse than prisoners. a lot of the women are not being allowed to touch their children during visits. it is heartbreaking. ice has a separate contract with medical facilities there. the food is not nutritious at all. the women are suffering from , vocationalational programs. they are being detained indefinitely. there is no accountability for the private prison. for too long they've been doing things secretively and liberally treating our bodies -- literally treating our bodies as if we are illegal and not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. we are not being treated with respect or dignity. it was important for me to go back to see what was happening because it has only gotten worse. i was there simply for the arrest in virginia. for 42 days, i was able to see how committed to organizing works. how folks were able to support me and demand and pressure them to release me. there was no reason for me to be there. incidentshad any

related to drug or alcohol. targeted.y i am also not only because of my human rights activism in my advocacy for justice, but because i have a criminal record. i have been years since i was a baby. i made some mistakes as a young person and i and i'm still being targeted for that. that is what we're asking for the governor to give me a pardon in arizona which will allow me to stay here permanently with my entire u.s. citizen family and continue my social justice work here. the only place i call my home, this is where my loved ones are. amy: at what age to june come here? >> i was here sits a baby. my mom and that have been citizens all of my life, basically. i'm on just did not petition for me and time. i have been years since a baby. i was a legal, permanent resident. amy: we're to continue this in

part two and have a web exclusive on democracynow.org. [captioning made pos

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