captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: today, donald trump reverses his position on deporting 11 million undocumented immigrants. or does he? republican nominee dismissed questions from critics and supporters alike who were confused about whether his signature policy still includes mass deportation. >> all the media wants to about is the 11 million people or more or lesson day one i'm going to begin swiftly removing, criminals, illegal immigrants from this country. >> dickerson: we'll ask the woman charting a new course for the trump campaign, kelly an conway where trump now stands. also a week. >> from the start, donald trump has built his campaign on

>> hillary clinton is a bigot who sees people of color only as votes. >> dickerson: we'll talk with trump supporter and former president shall candidate dr. ben carson. hillary clinton's controversies pop up again, a new batch of e-mails and new questions about the cozy relationship between the clinton foundation and state department. house oversight and government reform chaffetz wise in as does donna brazile. 72 days left until the election, the president shall candidates are boiling it down to one question. >> what the hell do you have to lose? >> the answer is, everything. dickerson: all ahead on "face the nation." good morning, welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. joining us donald trump's campaign manager kellyanne conway. i want to start with immigration, please.

over the last several months on the question of the 11 million undocumented, that they will -- me must leave the country as part of his plan, that seems to have been pretty stable in our conversations with him. now it seems to be shifting, why is that? >> actually he's not, he's pretty consistent, immigration is a very complex issue, so if i may just talk about the six or seven tenants of his plan, i will address your question. first, there's still no amnesty. secondly he's building that that has been the centerpiece of his candidacy and his immigration from the beginning it has not changed one inch. third, we have to have sanctuary cities. next, he has said that he will force -- enforce the law that is a model concept they like to lay law on top of law never enforce it. also said, that for those 11 million if that in fact is the number, he wants to address that issue humanely and fairly, those were his words.

cause harm to people. the question what to do. he has said that, if you want to be here legally, you have to apply to be here legally. we all learned in kindergarten to stand in line and wait our turn, he is not talking about deportation, but he is talking about being fair and humane, also being fair to the workers who are competing for jobs, being fair to all of us that want secure borders. >> dickerson: is law to be enforced the 11 million let's just use that number for the moment are here illegally, having them leave. how do they leave? do they self deport or does -- is there -- a deportation force or something that helps them leave the country immediately as he's previously said he'd like to see happen. >> that's really the question here, john. he has to deal with those agencies and those individuals already responsible for this who aren't doing their job. enforce the law the way he wants to enforce the law, he obviously

agencies, we have ice, we have agencies that already exist that are meant to be doing this already. and again, it's a very unusual idea for a president of the united states that would be president trump to actually enforce a law and see how we can do this in way that to quote him, fair, humane and effective. >> dickerson: someone who has run on being candid about things, apparent muddiness of this caused some of his supportershe of immigration studies, sarah palin and anne colter have subtled or think or might be abandoning his position, sheer what he said, whatever remaining chance he had to win the white house is gone. fact now that he has betrayed his base on the signature issue that he ran on seems to me the death knell of his candidacy, he said that to the "wall street journal." what has he got wrong? >> he says something differently in a meeting just last week, or maybe the week before when he

roundtable, the fact is i would say all those people, and mr. trump supporters, that look at his plan, you look at the no amnesty, and enforcing the law and making sure that there's no legalization, also said that, it's exactly what he's been talking about all together. and by the way, there are two major choices in that ballot box, if you look at hillary clinton's immigration plan, you see a real -- see convergence of a plan that would actually create more illegals coming in here, porous border, sanctuary cities, catch and release that local law enforcement hands are tied, catching illegal immigrant who has committed a crime. just release them. donald trump said if you committed a crime you're out of here. this isn't just referendum of donald trump's immigration you have to contrast to hillary clinton's, she's been very critical of president obama

of illegals and because he has used executive amnesty a little bit. but she promises to use that it much more. >> dickerson: let me touch on couple of other issues that mr. drum tweeted after nba's cousin was shot. dwyane wade's cousin was just shot and killed walking her baby in chicago, just what i have been saying, african americans will vote trump. what did he mean? >> tweeted his condolences to the family right after that, like everybody to know those tweets because i think it's incredibly important for all of us to come together, john, in a very nonpartisan fashion and express our condolences to families like the wade family. also our outrage that things like this can happen. this woman was pushing her baby stroller, four children today including newborn that don't have their mort. >> dickerson: absolutely -- i think it's important that donald trump is taking his message to communities of color. republicans sometimes show up at different forms but they don't continue with this message

the coming weeks you will see mr. trump directly -- >> dickerson: let me ask you -- just a second try to unpack the first tweet. i just don't know what that means. >> i think you have to look at both where he expresses condolences and he says, reminds he's been trying to make the case that the increase in random crime and senseless murders, the poverty, the homelessness in some of our major cities is unacceptable to all of us. the idea that certain politicians, he's not one of them, have looked the other way and have not done everything they can do to help all americans including communities of color, is unacceptable to all of us. certainly unacceptable to a president trump. >> dickerson: some people pointed out in number of instances whether it's orlando shooting, paris attacks now this one, his first instinct to talk

tragedy as validation of what he's been saying. is that healthy for president shall candidate to do that? >> but most americans see what he does on a weekly basis which is he gives policy position speeches. he's been out there just in the last two weeks, john, talking about middle class tax relief, law enforcement, communities of color, the corrupt system that is the clinton enterprise. and he's out there actually what did hillary clinton give speech on, not energy, infrastructure, economy of jobs, obamacare, defeating terrorism. she talked about him. he's talking -- about issues she talking about him. and that is just remarkable contrast in the way these two individuals are running their campaign. and so, i think people should look at the full measure of the man, look at his plan to defeat radical terrorism. to help our inner cities and

and contrast it to hillary clinton who this week i think elevated insult into an art form. frankly, has less the democratic party where i grew up, the democratic party, her fair -- is a big way from hope and change. >> dickerson: what about, donald trump called her a bigot. do you -- is that a campaign position, something he's going to keep saying? >> see what donald trump is called clinton world including many of her supporters before he gets out of bed in the morning. this man has been called everything in the book, insults, routinely, people think it's funny they put on twitter feeds even though they're supposed to be objective journalists he says, basically to her policies have left people behind. and the policy that she will continue will not help many of the people who still feel like they don't have the same

that other people have been able to leverage. that they deserve the same. so, pardon me if i can't get all exercised about name calling when hillary clinton gave entire speech this week about name calling, not about the issues, we have no idea what she was doing with obamacare which is failing everywhere, tennessee just this week said that that exchange is failing as well. that would be number 17 by my count of the 23 obviously major pulling out of the obamacare looks like a failed experiment. we don't know what she will do about economy of jobs, no idea what y she called isis our determined enemies rather than terrorists. she preferred to pro life republican as terrorist, she doesn't refer to terrorists as terrorists. that's very troubling. >> dickerson: thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you. with us now is democratic national committee chair donna

political reporter al hunted, he writes this in bloomberg. the democrats had successful convention, republicans didn't. clinton's campaign has been smooth, trump as has careened between disasters. she reached out to independents and republicans, he insulted the family of a soldier killed in iraq. clinton out spent him three to one, she's only ahead by five percentage points, why do you think that is? >> thank you, it's great to be see you always. if you don't mind let me just start by saying, 53 years ago they dr. king gave historic speech not far from here where he raised our consciousness to talk about ways in which we come together as americans. so, listening to kellyanne i just wanted to remind our friends out there that this is a country that made so many remarkable strides toward more perfect union. i'm proud to be the chair of the

we have a great election psych they will year, there's no question that the american people are looking for a candidate who will be able to, what i call, continue to make progress whether on health care, whether it's job creation, of course keeping the country safe and secure. i'm not worried about the polls today because as you know, the polls today reflect pretty much where the mood s. the mood of the country, lot of voters are still undecided. hillary clinton and tim kaine over period of last thr they have been able to expand their performance, not just in the so-called battleground states, but we're looking now at opportunities in arizona and georgia and elsewhere to continue to spread this democratic message of inclusion, of stronger job creation, small businesses. i think we're going to have a terrific year this year. >> dickerson: what al shunt getting a at something we hear about, hillary clinton should be doing better, the reason she isn't is in the news, number of

disclosed of relationships between the clinton foundation and the clinton state department, republicans call it, pay to play. why are they wrong about that? >> first of all the republicans call -- when republicans meet with their donors, their supporters they call it a conflick. it's not pay to play, less somebody actually gave someone 50 cents to say i need a meeting, no. this great country when you meet who constituen states, meet with people like bono who i love, you meet with them because they have -- want to bring a matter to your attention that's not pay to play. it's called that when democrats do it. it's not called that when republicans do it. >> dickerson: we do see in the e-mails is a kind of easy relationship between the foundation and the state department, foundation calls says, we've got somebody who they say is a friend of ours, they're not saying that because

christmas. they are saying because they're a big donora friend of ours, can you have this meeting, some times it happens, sometimes it didn't. there's a very easy relationship, is that just the way washington works? >> i don't want to say that is how washington works. i didn't work for the foundation, let me say i'm very strong supporter of the clinton foundation. i remember back in 2001 when bill clinton set up shop in harlem in new york to begin to build a foundation that would help not just poor communities that are developing countries with hiv aids, with malaria, other disgusting diseases, this is a foundation that has done remarkable work, even kellyanne conway said they have supported the clinton foundation, i think they had bright purpose, green or blue line between foundation and state department there's no question that when someone knows someone, look, i have friend, do you want to set this up meeting. if you look at all of the

point where i'm exhausted reading internal e-mails that have been leaked or somehow another received, even in the case of bono who i mentioned who i love, he had a request in, his music to be streamed through, they rejected it. there is no -- of course we are going to read these e-mails, have a lot of answers from the gossip, some times don't have lot of interest in the crime. in the case of the democrat, i have to mention this because i'm a little bit familiar, cyberattack by a foreign count country. and once we were attacked, the media became obsessed with what was in the e-mails and not the crime itself. in fact, the person who is telling personal information of individuals involved in this serious act, able to come on television and say, i got more -- i have more material to give out to the media.

gossip not the crime itself. i am worried about cybersecurity and the threat that it poses to our democracy. >> dickerson: but concern about e-mails because e-mails were in a private server they weren't -- couldn't get to them in the normal way this isn't just some kind of random -- >> and again, going back because i like -- so many lines that you cross talking about e-mails, there's no question that whether the state department e-mails that were released, the state department e-mails that were leaked, state department e-mails that were coming if there's no there there. if by -- if because you were able to get in and see someone by making a request, we saw nobel prize winners wanting to meet with the secretary of state. heads of state, there was a lot of people who wanted to meet the secretary of state, former secretary of state met with literally thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of individuals. >> dickerson: we'll have to leave it there, donna. thanks so much for being with

't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara? just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. stelara? may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before starting stelara? tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. ction, have had cancer, if you develop any new skin growths or if anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara? if you are allergic to stelara? or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara? saw 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks.

is. >> dickerson: joining us now is jay on chaffetz. nothing to see, there's no there there that dnc chair, what's your reaction? >> well, they also said there's smoke and no fire but my 8:00 league said, there's a fire, in fact it was arson. i think the public has the right to know, we certainly have been asking for these documents since 2012, if hillary clinton wants to come clean, she hasn't yet, most everything she said about this turned out to be a lie. she should provide her calendar, associated press has been fighting for years in the courts just to get her calendar she has more than one. but get her calendar out there. she said at press conference, i think fbi should provide the congress, consequently the public unclassified version that can be released. >> dickerson: one of the things we're trying to do here figure out whether there was something

in the relationship with the state department and clinton foundation for whether this is just kind of way things are done in washington, people give lot of money, get phone called returned faster, get e-mails returned. so you've said that it smells like pay to play in this relationship between clinton foundation donors and state department. what evidence do you have of that? >> look at the associated press report that came out for nearly majority of the people who have made these major -- made these major donations got a meeting, if you look at the interaction between foundation and those that worked at the state department, at one point they said, our boss. supposed to be a bright clear line, i think one of the questions the media needs to ask hillary clinton, was her interaction and senior staff, was there interaction with the foundation, that was a official business? because they say that sometimes it was or was that just a

years after the fact that we have sent subpoenas, sent letters of preservation, requests for information, and still the state department and hillary clinton we get these new revelations almost weekly that there are thousands of new things that we haven't yet seen. >> dickerson: the clinton campaign says that ap report didn't take into account all the meetings she had. there's no doubt they took place. i guess the question that was to pay to play, don't you have to show that the state department did something that there was some action was taken as a result of requests by somebody who gave a lot of money, in this case, what in your mind is the action that was taken, what policy was changed or what action should people focus on when they're looking at these? >> that's why we want to see her calendars, see the rest of the e-mails, remember, there's 14,000 e-mails, we have not yet seen that are new.

destruction of these documents. these are federal records. this is not her e-mails. and she's the one that set this up, the inspector general tried to interview hillary clinton, she said she wants to be open and transparent but prefused to meet with the inspector general. then you have the fbi director said they never looked at her testimony before congress and her interaction with congress. we're requesting documents, federal records, those are destroyed. we have some e we want answer to. >> dickerson: two baskets, the clinton foundation and the e-mails which were on her private server that was at her home in her system she set up. you have said that she committed perjury in testimony in front of your committee, what are you asking the fbi to do, they have already said that they didn't see a willful deletion on her part, they said that in terms of classified material that she didn't know because it wasn't marked classified, haven't they answered some of the questions

should have known that the information was classified. remember, the state department, there are two different systems. one system is the classified system. and one of the key concerns we have is, how did the information on those classified servers get over on to the ones that were not classified? from our vantage point it's one of the largest breaches of security in the history of the state department. we got to make sure that people aren't just walking out the door with literally hundreds if not thousands of classified -- bits of their way into a nonsecure setting. and when hillary clinton herself allows people without the proper security clearance to have access to that information, again, that is a self inflicted breach that she put upon the country to put people's lives in jeopardy. >> dickerson: on that question, which is the lawyer she hired to delete e-mails from her private server are you saying the fbi dropped the ball? surely they were aware that the lawyers were looking at the information, they dropped the ball in their investigation? >> no, the director said he was

also later offered a bit of clarification to say, some of the attorneys have some of the clearances but not just her attorneys there are i.t. professionals that she engaged in networks who had no security clearance. and yet when the fbi provides us those documents in a secure -- in this skiff, so-called skiff in secure place they redact those names. we want to know who those people are. they don't have the proper security clearance they gave them acces information. >> dickerson: hanks so much for being with us we'll be back in a moment. pear? it's what the national debt could do to our economy. if we don't solve our debt problem 19 trillion and growing money for programs like education will shrink. in just 8 years, interest on the debt will be our third largest federal program. bad news for small businesses. the good news? there's still time for a solution.

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when you run live, you run simple. real is touching a ray. amazing is moving like one. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there's only one place where real and amazing live. >> dickerson: former president shall candidate dr. ben carson is with us now from west palm beach, florida. dr. carson, i want to go back to the question of immigration and donald trump's position on it because politicians who have changed their position on immigration are responsible for a lot of unhappiness in the base of the republican party. what do you make of where donald

undocumented workers? >> well, i think basically what he is saying is, there's no path to citizenship. there's no voting, unless you go through the same process that anybody else goes through. he's saying that he clearly wants to secure the border, e-verify in place, tend to the visa situation. do all those things, built he's saying, let's apply the law, the not been tried by democrats or republicans. then let's see what's left over and what's left over after that is something that should be dealt with in a reasonable, compassionate and fairway. i don't think that's a big departure. >> dr. carson we'll hold off just a moment we'll be back with more from you, have to take a commercial break here.

which you are you? be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. stelara? may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before starting stelara? tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. always tell your doctor if you have any signs of infection, have had cancer, if you develop any new skin growths or if anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine.

d vision problems these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara? if you are allergic to stelara? or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara? saw 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara?. >> dickerson: some of our cbs stations are leaving us now but for most oyo back. with a lot more "face the

sharyl: welcome to ?full measure.? i'm sharyl attkisson. today we begin with a question of human testing and the dilemma posed by the need to do research for the greater good and the right of human test subjects to know exactly what they're signing up for. our incredible story begins in 2004 with a federal study of 1300 extremely premature infants.