captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: today on "face the nation," auditions for key roles in the trump administration and democrats look for a new way forward. president-elect trump and vice president-elect pence hunkered down this weekend to interview cab dates for top positions in their new administration. >> we're seeing tremendous talent, people that, as i we will make america great again. >> dickerson: but will they? not everyone is so sure. friday night mr. pence received an unexpected message while attending a performance of the music hamilton. >> we, sir, we are a diverse america who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us. >> dickerson: we'll talk to vice president-elect pence about that and get an update on mr. trump's cabinet pick. kentucky senator rand paul is threatening to block some

ask him why. we'll also hear from democratic congressman keith ellison, one democrat trying to reshape his party. and what are the policy challenges ahead for mr. trump and a republican congress? we've assembled a panel of experts to explore. plus we'll honor our friend, the legendary journalist gwen ifill. it's all ahead on "face the nation." good morning and welcome to "face the nation." i'm john dickerson. president-elect trump met yesterday with forme presidential candidate mitt romney, a possible candidate for the job of secretary of state. the two appear to have moved past romney's tough criticism during the campaign. mr. trump also met with former centcom commander james madis. >> all i can say is he is the real deal. he is the real deal. >> dickerson: we're joined now by the head of the transition team and vice president-elect mike pence.

to start, are there going to be any announcements today on staffing? >> i think that's yet to be seen, john. good to be with you this morning. we're here at trump national after a brisk day yesterday. but i have to tell you, to be able to have the opportunity to help lead this transition effort , to be sitting shoulder to shoulder with our president-elect as he's talking to men and women of extraordinary backgrounds and administration together, building the agenda, being there when he's talking to leaders around the world has been deeply inspiring. i think every american would be inspired by the leadership our president-elect has shown from literally hours after this election was called. >> dickerson: and romney as a possible secretary of state, is that right? >> that's absolutely right, john. i know the president-elect was very grateful that governor mitt

yesterday. we spent the better part of an hour together with him, and then i know that the two of them actually had some private time together. i would tell you that it was not only a cordial meeting, but also a very substantive meeting. i can say that governor romney is under active and serious consideration to serve as secretary of state of the united states. >> dickerson: let me ask you acted some work you've done in the transition since taking it over. you moved out some donald trump told me a couple months ago that he would have no problem with having no lobbyists and no major donors in his administration at all. do you think he'll be able to keep that promise? >> well, i think the american people want to see change in washington, d.c. there's been heartbreak and disappointment over recent years and frankly successive

an inability for washington, dc, to get anything done. and the president-elect is absolutely determined to build an administration with women and men who bring that fresh perspective and a determination on doing the people's business and not the business of special interests. so as you know, we made changes as soon as i took over the transition effort. we made changes. we moved lobbyists out of the transition team, and that's going to continue to be a load star, and viewers that the president-elect is determined to move ethics reform in the next year in the congress of the united states. a lot of people around the country want to see us drain the swamp. they want to see fundamental ethics reform. that's going to happen starting january 20th. >> dickerson: just to button that up, so no lobbyists or donors in the administration as he promised. that's right? >> well, i think what the president-elect has made clear is that we're going to have people in the administration who

american people and moving the trump agenda forward. and to sit with him in these interviews that have been taking place over the last week, to sit with him with congressional leaders, as the two of us did a week ago, is to see someone who is completely focused on keeping the promises that he made to the american people. i got the tell you, it's really been inspiring to be standing shoulder to shoulder with our few short days since that historic election. >> dickerson: but that doesn't quite sound like a yes to me. so it seems like there's some wiggle room on the no lobbyists and donors, so we'll look for some clarity on that to come, but let me ask you about this question: the "wall street journal" has asked that mr. trump liquidate his holdings with his business. will he? >> i saw that editorial. what i can tell you is that i'm

president-elect and his extraordinarily talented family will work with the best legal minds in this country and create the proper separation from their business enterprise during his duties as president of the united states. to be around him is to be around man who is completely focused on the people's business, and to get to know his children is to get to know men and women of extraordinary capability who i know he's confident they can lead the business enterprise energies, all of his focus on the people's business. >> dickerson: should employees of the trump businesses be involved at all in the people's business, if government business, meetings? >> well, i think during this transition, it is very helpful. >> dickerson: how about during the presidency? >> well, i think during the presidency there will be the proper separation.

president-elect donald trump now is to be around someone who, while he has built literally one of the most prosperous businesses in the country, he's man who is spending all of his energies and all of his focus on that agenda that he campaigned on. it's about bringing personnel together. we'll have more extraordinary men and women here in new jersey today who are under consideration for positions of enormous import, but it's also about laying out the policies that we're going to start on day one in this congress to implement. the president-elect has already made the decision in conversations with republican leaders in the house and senate that we're going to lift the extraordinary burden of obamacare off the backs of the american people and off the backs of american businesses. repealing obamacare will be the first priority in a session that will be characterized by tax reform, rebuilding the military, infrastructure, ending illegal immigration, and that's where

>> dickerson: here's the question for a candidate that worked so hard and made such a strong point about draining the swamp, about the the washington culture of self-dealing. you'd expect brighter lines in terms of the private business and a presidency. if a foreign country, for example, does business with the trump industries, would we expect to see that notified... a notification of that? because you could imagine somebody trying to do business with the trump family as a way of getting in good with the trump president. >> john, what i can assure you and all of your viewers is that all of the laws pertaining to his business dealings and his service as president of the united states will be strictly adhered to. and he's set that tone from the very beginning. but the other part is just, you know, i'm very confident that we will operate an administration that is above reproach with regard to all of those issues.

leadership is because he wasn't a career politician. he spent an entire lifetime as a builder, creating jobs, building a business enterprise, and the american people said yes to bringing a builder and a business leader into the white house. we'll create the proper legal separation, above reproach, as he goes forward. i promise you, president-elect donald trump is today and president donald trump, after january 20th, is going to be completely focused on the people's leave his business life in the pass. >> dickerson: let me ask you a policy question. senator john mccain is worried about waterboarding. the kansas congressman mike pompeo who is going to be going to the c.i.a. supports mr. trump's position that perhaps waterboarding should come back. let's listen to what senator mccain said. >> i don't give a damn what the president of the united states wants to do or what anybody else wants to do, we will not waterboard. we will not torture.

america if we're going to inflict torture on people? >> dickerson: what's your response to that? >> well, i have great respect for senator senator mccain. what i can tell you is going forward, as he outlined in that famous speech in ohio, that a president donald trump is going to focus on confronting and defeating radical islamic terrorism as a threat to this country. anwe president again who will never say what we'll never do. i think in president-elect donald trump, you have someone who believes that we shouldn't be telling the enemy what our tactics or our strategies are, and i know that in conversations with some leading americans about playing roles in our administration, we're very excited about congressman pompeo's role at the c.i.a. we're very excited to see general mike flynn stepping into his leadership position.

president-elect assembles at the department of defense will all advise him, but the american people should know this is a president who on day one, january 20th, is going to focus on defeating and destroying isis at its source and confronting radical islamic terrorism so it can no longer threaten our people or inspire violence here in the homeland. >> dickerson: at the moment, though, water boring is something the united states government does not do, so we... the enemy already knows that water boarding is not something is it going to be reassessed by the trump administration? >> well, i think the president-elect made his views on that quite clear during the course of the campaign, but as we go forward, what i can tell you is it's not going to be about a specific tactic. what i see in these meetings with the president-elect and candidates for our national security and our national defense is someone who is

extraordinary background and capability. we have real challenges around the world today, john, and the american people should know that president-elect donald trump is going to surround himself with men and women who are going to ensure our national defense. we're going to rebuild our military. but this is going to be a president that is going to be determined to destroy isis and to confront radical islamic terrorism, so it can no longer threaten our people here at home. >> dickerson: finally, mr. vice president-elect, you went to see "hamilton." the actors sent a message to you. part of it was, "we are the diverse america that are alarm and anxious that our new administration will not protect us." why do you think they're alarmed and anxious? >> well, first off, i took my daughter and her cousins to the show friday night, and john, if you haven't seen it yet, it's a

extraordinary team that brought "hamilton" to the public. we really enjoyed being there. i heard the remarks that were made at the end. and, you know, what i can tell you is i wasn't offended by what was said. i'll leave to others whether it was the appropriate venue the say it, but i want to assure people who were disappointed in the election result, people who are feeling anxious about this time in the life of our nation that president-elect donald trump meant exactly what on election night, that he is going to be the president of all the people of the united states of america. and to see this man who is bringing this energy and this leadership to the process of assembling this team and laying out an agenda to revive our country and strengthen america at home and abroad is to see someone who is not only a great mind but a great heart. he's got heart for the american people. and i just want to reassure

actor who spoke that night, that president-elect donald trump is going to be president of all the people. and i couldn't be more honored to stand with him. >> dickerson: vice president-elect mike pence, we'll leave it there, and we'll be back in a moment. hey there, hi. why do people have eyebrows? why do people put milk on cereal? oh, are you reading why people put milk on cereal? why does your tummy go "grumbily, grumbily, grumbily"? why is it all (mimics a stomach grumble) no more questions for you! ooph, that milk in your cereal was messing with you, wasn't it?

try lactaid, it's real milk, without that annoying lactose. good, right? mmm, yeah. i got your back. lactaid. it's the milk that doesn't mess with you. >> dickerson: we turn now to kentucky senator rand paul. senator, welcome back. let's start with the trump cabinet or possible trump cabinet picks. you said you would block maybe rudy giuliani oro they were put forward for positions in the trump administration. why? >> i supported donald trump. one of the reasons i did is that i liked what he had to say about the iraq war was a mistake. i think that's an important historical lesson. it's not a matter of when he said it or who he said it to. it's matter of he understands that the iraq war was a mistake and regime change was a mistake. i think it would be inconsistent with his campaign theme. i want people who run the state

the problem with both bolton and giuliani is they're unrepentened in their support of the iraq war, and that means they're liable to commit it again. hillary clinton said she thought she was wrong to vote for the iraq war, but she did the same thing in syria. i think it's important the head of the state department understands what donald trump said over and over again, the >> dickerson: would you include mitt romney, who vice president-elect mike pence said is under consideration in that state basket? >> i'm not sure i would call him unrepentant, he is somebody who has supportedded the iraq war. i would want to hear more. i think we should ask, no matter what the stature of the person, we should ask, what are your beliefs? was the iraq war a mistake? are you for regime change? do you think toppling assad in syria will lead the a better world or safer world?

libya did, toppling mubarak? they're important questions. as far as reasonability, if i were to rank romney up there with someone i think is a reasonable, even-keel versus a giuliani or a bolton, i think giuliani and bolton are out there on the extreme. i don't think they're very diplomatic, and i think you want the chief diplomat to be diplomatic. bolton might be better as a secretary of war, but he's certainly not a diplomat or someone who acts in a diplom might be an alternative to war. >> dickerson: you have any of your own candidates you would put forward? >> i'm afraid i don't get to pick. i wish i got to pick. but they have said in the mix, bob corker was in the mix. i find him to be very reasonable, very knowledgeable with foreign affairs as head of the foreign relations committee. i think he's interacted with many of our foreign leaders. i think that's what you want as a reasonable, calming hand at the state department. you don't want someone throwing bombs or advocating regime change.

advocated for regime change in iran, and that doesn't sound like diplomacy. that sounds like war. >> dickerson: right. have you been contacted by anybody in the trump orbit to say, to address your concerns? >> well, we have, we've had conversations with them, nothing public or nothing i care to make public, but we we have had conversations. it's a very close vote. there's 52 republicans. some of the people that have been put forward i think are not guaranteed to get any support, so they lose my support and a couple other republicans. many republicans have come up to me and said, you know what, bolton is a bomb-thrower. he's not this even keel with a world view that we want over there. we want someone a little more rational or reasonable. so i think that there are several potential republican votes against someone like a bolton, possibly giuliani. the other thing giuliani will stir up is it will be a hornet's fles on all the financial stuff. >> dickerson: what did you make of vice president-elect pence's remarks about

for discussion again. >> well, you know, the bush administration said we weren't going to do it. the obama administration said we weren't going to do it. the international community condemns it. i think it is torture. and while john mccain and i don't always agree on everything, we have our disagreements, a few time, but on this i absolutely think john mccain is right. instead of holding this to owrlses and being ambiguous about it, we should telegraph to the world that we're better than this and we don't torture and this is why we are exceptional as a people. we don't >> drew: you have also been a vocal critic of what the government does to looking into its citizens' business, whether it's vote collection of data or wiretapping. given that mindset, what is your view about the elevation of jeff sessions to attorney general and mike pompeo to the c.i.a.? >> you know, i am a fierce advocate of privacy and think you do have a right to privacy and that your records, whether they're in the possession of the phone company or not, that you

in those records. we all sign privacy agreements every time. we do a come pewter search with a computer search company or with a telephone company. i think we have a right the privacy. i'm hope. , but i also know that this president doesn't necessarily agree with me on this next president. so we'll see. i'll continue to be an equal opportunity defender of the bill of rights, whether it's a republican or democrat. >> dickerson: do you have any specific concerns with respect to sessions and pompeo? >> right. it does concern me, yes. but i would say that with pompeo, he's going to have to also answer to my liking whether or not he's still for or the chun. whether or not he's for waterboarding. he's also been for expanding n.s.a. powers. many of the n.s.a. powers were done i think in secret without the knowledge of most members of congress. even some members who were authors or coauthors of the patriot act said we never intended for them to collect all that data in utah, and they didn't tell us.

pompeo will be are there secret programs that even congress doesn't know about? i think there still are programs ongoing that the bulk of congress is not aware of. >> dickerson: what do you think the senate's oversight role is with respect to donald trump and then the trump businesses? >> you know, i think that he probably will have every legal right to not put things in a blind trust, but it may continue to come up if there is an appearance that a certain country has a trump hotel and that there's more visits to that hotel, will that be a problem? yeah, i think he'll get dogged about it. so probably it's legal for him not to completely separate, but my advice, if i were asked, would be try to do the best you can to separate so you don't have this. it will deter you from things you want to get done if everybody keeps asking you about what about the trump hotel you visited. >> we just had a big campaign which the fuzzy line between the clinton foundation and hillary

crucial sign of her weakness as president, so why would a president wanting to drain the swamp not have a problem? >> this would be the same with giuliani and his dealings around the world. if you just spent a year and a half for criticizing clinton from taking money from foreign countries, you better be careful about appointing someone who has taken a lot of money from foreign countries, as well. >> dickerson: donald trump talked about a ford plant in kentucky this week. did he do anything to help keep that ford plant in i think people misconstrue this. the jobs were never leaving, well, an assembly line was leaving, so maybe the potential of jobs was leaving. something was going. i think there is some value to the bully pulpit. people say, well, how is he going to do this? well, maybe talking a tough line on trade and that, you know, there will be repercussions if you leave the country, maybe it did change their mind. i don't know. but i'm willing to give him a little credit for it simply because my state and we're happy

whether the jobs are going or not, something was going to mexico, and now it's not. sounds good to me. >> dickerson: all right. senator rand paul, we appreciate having you here. we'll look forward to having you back, and we'll be back in a moment with a tribute to our moment with a tribute to our friend, gwen ifill. r more than d of energy-related carbon emissions. the challenge is to capture the emissions before they're released into the atmosphere. exxonmobil is a leader in carbon capture. make this technology better, more affordable so it can reduce emissions around the world. that's what we're working on right now. ?

impressive linda. it seems age isn't slowing you down. but your immune system weakens as you get older increasing the risk for me, the shingles virus. i've been lurking inside you since you had chickenpox. i could surface anytime as a painful, blistering rash. one in three people get me in their lifetime, linda. will it be you? and that's why linda got me zostavax, a single shot vaccine. i'm working to boost linda's immune system to help protect her against you, shingles. ax is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults fifty years of age and older. zostavax does not protect everyone and cannot be used to treat shingles or the nerve pain that may follow it. you should not get zostavax if you are allergic to gelatin or neomycin, have a weakened immune system or take high doses of steroids are pregnant or plan to become pregnant. the most common side effects include redness, pain, itching, swelling, hard lump warmth or bruising at the injection site and headache. it's important to talk to your doctor

rus. remember one in three people get shingles in their lifetime, will it be you? talk you to your doctor or pharmacist about me, single shot zostavax. you've got a shot against shingles. >> dickerson: the nation lost a great journalist when pbs "newshour" co-anchor and "washington week" host gwen ifill passe here at "face the nation" we lost a dear friend. >> this is not a debate about ideology. >> dickerson: over the years gwen brought her insight, her love of reporting and her ability to puncture to the roundtable. >> it must make her crazy to have david axelrod as her defender. >> dickerson: she also joined in questioning from time to time. >> last i checked, they have not swayed in their decision to have this kind of enquiry. what is the point in continuing to discuss this?

>> dickerson: quakers say let your light shine, and gwen's inner light beamed with her smile. the tributes to her used so many words to describe that smile, the the sauce was empty. he chose joy, her friend said at her funeral yesterday, it was a conscious project. she sent notes to see how you were doing, checked in on journalists she had mentored, and devoted herself to her church, her family and her friends. gwen ifill wore g garment and you felt it. the effect was visible to others. a colleague wrote me this week, "you always looked happy and inspired on her show. when you were around gwen, you couldn't help it."

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sharyl: 60,000 employees secure more than 100,000 miles of borders and coastline. but to criminal drug cartels, all that security looks a lot like opportunity. what kind of money can the illegal activity bring in for a corrupt agent? >> they could, in theory, make more in an evening than they, in their annual salary. scott: walk the beat with a british police officer and something may seem amiss to the average american. there's no gun. very recently, the government decided tackling terrorism, meant gearing up. >> we've got to make sure that the officers who we are asking to run towards danger have the protection and the means to deal with the incidence. sharyl: 93-year-old john billings still has a perfect memory of the daring mission he