>> armstrong: i'm armstrong williams and this is the "right side forum." ? ? ? ? >> armstrong: welcome back. james akerman is president and ceo. we welcome you both to the show. you know, evolving morality. you know, for me, it's always

i have a strong conscience. >> right. >> armstrong: i know immediately when i'm wrong, when i shouldn't have spoken in that a way, when i did not do full disclosure, and it haunts me. and so i go inward and i ask myself, do i determine that rock -- no, it comes from my study of scripture. it comes from parents example, watching teacher, watching adult, and sometime watching people who don't think they're the best people in the world. i learn from everybody. it's interesting when you read something like the bible and it's reinforced and you know, it's like it's edge in your soul, if you never read it. right and wrong doesn't come from me. it's something i don't have control over it, but i know it my soul.

with you, i know it when i'm becoming greedy and pom puss i know. but we live in a society where people think that they get to decide when they're right or wrong and god needs to be updated. all of this god is too restrictive and there needs to be a sweeping change of what values and virtues are. we want to discuss tattooed. i' i can't say that my way is right. it makes my life more peaceful and it gives me solitude. who gets to side what is right and what is wrong, and what are the consequences when we as individuals get to decide? >> guest: i think there are certain things that are literally edge in stone. do not murder. do not steal are things that i think will, are common truth that few people would argue

preparing to commit crimes. i think there are certain things that can be situational. and there's certain things that can be cultural, but at the end of the day, the defining standard of what is right and wrong has to be grounded in something. right, for me, as the president of prison fellowship, that is grounded in biblical truth and in biblical world view. if society a band d in which morality is grounded then we end up in chaos. >> guest: the question of morality, it's interesting that you posed this as evolving morality, because does morally really evolve. >> guest: no. >> guest: or ethics evolve? i think we need to distinguish between the two. i would give you push back, because you said that i don't determine morality. in some ways we do.

the choices that we make that dictate the lives that we live. based on our choices it's grounded in something in some biblical truth, some religious truth, some universal truth and that's important to the discussion. >> armstrong: so what about where we live in a world today, especially among the young generation, where what he just said would be totally rejected. >> guest: uh-huh. >> armstrong: that we cannot say that abortion is wrong. we sex is wrong, we cannot say that homosexuallity is wrong. we cannot say lying is wrong. as long as i'm not harming anyone, where is the issue of sin? >> guest: we can say all of those things. i think it's important to lead with love and good lodge ic. it's important, jesus said honor god with all of your heart, soul and all of your mind, it's really important to engage with

i think can you talk about topics like abortion in the marketplace and tie it back to a biblical standard, but explain to people without judgment but in love to help them understand. that may still be different than what the laws allow and are permissible. we can have laws that incompatible with biblical truth and we do. i think it's important that we engage a the marketplace. i hosted a some months ago, there was 10, 20 something at this dinner and they asked me about abortion. i gave them an explanation about it that left them thinking. >> armstrong: but, obviously, the world is in chaos, something is wrong. and everybody keeps trying to figure it out. these things are not just happening. it's as though, we have almost had a breach with our creator. >> guest: i wouldn't say a breach with our creator, if

talking about love, this concept of love. his love, it's compassion, it's justice, it's a the love things. >> armstrong: but that is not enough. >> guest: i think it is enough. all right. love conquers all. >> armstrong: sometimes the truth is tough. >> guest: but we have to be conscious. we talked about conscious. >> armstrong: is it that we are going to be true, and be kind. sometimes you have to be stern as a parent. >> guest: sure. >> and that kind of sternss how do we get young people to understand that these things, the virtues we speak about, the biblical scriptures were here before we ever thought about. before the beginning of time, and it guided society? >> guest: learn to be a good mentor. put your self out there for somebody who is going to serve people, mentoring them and be willing to listen to their perspective and understand where they're coming from, and engage

everybody is going to be -- but we should pursue the opportunitysomes i absolutely agree with james. i think you need to understand the perspective of young people. i'm an older millennials, and i teach students at george washington university. i understand their perspective. i may not always agree with their perspective. if i understand where they're coming from, i'm able to relate to them, and i'm also able to present real world situations that th understand and play sarous scenarios with them. i think there's a level of engagement that one has to have. there's a level of empathy, that we have to understand. and right, and you have to get to know. how can i treat my neighbor right if i don't know my neighbor at all some you have to get to know the other person. in this case you have to get to know young people and how they're feeling and thinking in

>> armstrong: this is armstrong

? ? ? ? >> armstrong: there's kids that come from the most loving homes and they kill there's kids that murder. we were interviewing some kids earlier in the week and they were talking about their lives and games in the inner city. they have no conscience. they say absolutely nothing wrong with it. they kill people because they don't like the way they look. because they stepped on their shoe, just think about killing. you and i couldn't even fathom that and we have all the choices in the world, too. there's a lot, i believe that there could be more love.

or another something has gone ter plea wrong. we're trying -- terribly wrong, we're trying to figure out today can having a better understanding of right and wrong who decides, and morality, not evolving morality, because it was the same centuries ago. with the islam being extremist, they are so polluted about what faith and god is. they take a life and they belie bribes. we can't put the jeany back in the -- genie back in the bottle, but we can try to diminish the number of people that have to die, because we're not going to diminish it 100%. >> guest: at abandonedment of faith by the younger generation is going to get them in trouble. we are all regulated by our world view. and if it's grounded in faith then we're going to have a certain attitude in life.

there's as many people there, that the meaning of life is to gain as much power and wealth and if that is what you think defines life, that is how you are going to look at everything around you. if your view is to serve the purposes god and apply those in the manner that honor you. >> mention your program. >> prison fellowship. i importance of leading with love. i have been going to prisons for the last 12 years, and i will tell you from personal experience, there's no value in going into a prison and telling a guy who committed first-degree murder, you're a bad guy. you need to correct your behavior. what we go in and say, you're loved and you can be for given of what happened in your past. we want to work with you to develop your spiritual life so

mind of hate and to a mind of love. and then we want to work with you to enable you to live successful when and it you're given that opportunity. prison fellowship is an organization that works throughout the united states to serve the needs of inmates, and their families, and be a bridge between prison and the community at large. >> armstrong: so one thing is to deal with kids in your profession that parent and society is has not done a good joshing the bar is not as for them, about the kids that have no soul no conscience? how -- no moral campus, they believe that everything begins and ends with them. >> guest: uh-huh. >> armstrong: just have a wrong understanding of who they are? >> guest: it's something that james said that these kids that are, that have no sort of concept of faith and that human out there. maybe, just maybe, i think they're trying to teach us or

of what whatever faith tradition it is that maybe we have it wrong. maybe we need to look at another model here. there's love in humanism, right? i'm a christian minister. i'm by trade, and i'm a humanist, because i find value in being a human being. no human being is alien to me. if we, again connect to kids on that level, even absent of not to say that faith is not important, but understand the level of what it means to be human being, the level of consciousness that one can have even absent of faith. again, i work with a lost student, most of -- not most, but some of them don't have faith. they believe in reason. they believe in truth. and even those who are grounded in religion, but said that even if i am not grounded in

people who are different from me. i that i is where we have to reach these kids nowadays. >> armstrong: so you're telling us with some the most hardened of criminals, that love is enough to turn them around. love, yes, but you must give them a pathway that they believe that they can be successful. they can take care of themselves. >> guest: they have on have real self worth, and real self esseem. man went to prison a 19-year-old. he and another guy, and shot, and hit an artery in the guy's arm and bled out in front of him. it's tragic. he now lives on the outside, he is successful. he has his own business. it took an investment of time and serving him and mentoring him. when he and i were first

are you, where is your head? today he calls me up and says i have an opportunity to grow the business, but i'm not sure how many of employees i should hire. it's a completely different relationship. the love is not just telling somebody that you are loved, but the love is investing being consistent in serving people. >> guest: and the love is also being compassionate. the love is extending justice. it's not enough in our society to say who knocked you down? but the question kind of a world do we live in that a person gets knocked down on the side of the road.

>> armstrong: it's important to tell you a story, they can be saved, but so few of them that are saved, the overwhelming

life again. you believe that we have to teal with the issue of trauma. >> guest: a lot of reasons why people go through levels avenue diction, whatever that violence is, and addiction is because of issue of trauma. i don't think our society has a good in-depth understanding of what trauma means, historically, personally collectively and how that impact our life. we are talking about the concept of love, compassion we have to pierce through these issues of trauma and that does require love. that requires getting to know, that requires some of the other virtues to really pierce through that issue of trauma. >> armstrong: in 30 seconds, given the fact that somebody returns to that life, what does it say about our future some. >> guest: we have to keep trying and investing on people, it's all about people. we have to treat our neighbor, all of our neighbor as our

>> armstrong: shouldn't they also make that a choice as ininvestment. >> guest: hour response should always be the love. love is the concept of all of the major religions. >> armstrong: so you think that opportunity and the story you told about ta young man -- that young man is for everybody within that grasp. >> guest: i believe there's hope in everybody. >> guest: i believe. >> armstrong: but you didn't answer the question. >> guest: not everybody, there's pe and cannot turn around. >> armstrong: but life is fair if you're not inherently evil and you follow certain moral code, and striving, success and blessings belong to you, is that what we're saying. >> guest: yeah, absolutely. >> armstrong: in other words, virtue, values, understanding right from wrong no matter how tough it is, you got to always choose what morally correct, because in the end you will win even though you may not see the

blessed foot step walk for you if you make those choices of okay. thank you for tuning into this edition, armstrong williams

?? ?? i'm marty stouffer. dry and desolate for most of the year, our desert southwest comes alive in spring. it's early april as i began a five-month ride from the border of mexico all the way to canada. we'll follow springtime north