good morning. k." welcome to "this week." the rocky recovery. rockieough the economy is growing again. too many people are still stillg the pain. >> and more signs of weakness. certain.conomic outlook remains jobsally uncertain. >> when will the jobs return? when will the economy heal? >> the scars run very deep. veryr headliner this morning, treasury secretary tim geithner. on the massive new wall street on the new lettingon bill. letting tax cuts expire. and pros sects for another and similar lus bill. age.then -- >> direct, honest, refreshing. >> he's a rising star. his and his tough talking, first-cutting style is winning him fans nationwide.

in his first sunday interview, new jersey governor chris christie. and our "roundtable," with sam donaldson, cokie roberts, stephen hayes and donna brazile. we'll look at the firing of shirley sherrod and less soones to be learned about the media, nt.e, and the obama administration's latest aschable moment. and, as always, "the sunday funnies." a there's a report that kate ssselin and sarah palin are taking their families camping together in alaska. and it must be true because sarah palin hasn't refudiated it yet. >> good morning. this week brought more mixed signals about the economy. as fed chair ben bernanke put with the current economic climate is unusually uncertain. capitol spending fatigue on capitol hill, the president is running out of options to give the recovery a boost. that's where i began my interview with treasury myretary tim geithner.

thank you for joining us. > good to see you. >> the administration has had a number of successes after big battles. haveulus, health care battletion. you have a big battle coming when it comes to the bush tax tax. f they remain in place, it will tst $3 trillion over ten years. e onceministration has said it wants to keep the ones for people that make under $200,000, individuals and $250,000 for couples. that will cost $2.5 trillion over ten years. unusbernanke, the chairman of ae federal reserve, said that with the economic outlook unusually uncertain, extending the tax cuts would have a working americanct.

is that right? >> the president is proposing to leave in place, extend tax cuts that go to more than 95% of esses g americans. to leave in place to businesses es ande new employees and invest. we think that's a very strong ackage. we think it's the right package. it's right, we think it's fair. lethink it's responsible. hatthink it's responsible to let the tax cuts expire that go to ust 2% to 3% of americans. lde highest earning americans. we think that's the responsible rying to do. we need to show the world that we're willing, as a country now, to show progress in bringing down long-term deficits. ts.don't you think that will highestwth? a no. cst letting those tax cuts, the highest earning americans in the country, let those cuts expire, i do not believe that has a negative factor. >> the package you're pushing in congress. ss.save the bush tax cuts for pe people under $200,000. extendgo beyond that. we're proposing to extend the make work pay tax cut. that goes to 95% of working thaticans. of a set of important business ax cuts targeted for small tssinesses.

smalling. zero capital gains rate for ratstment. veryink these are very helpful. very powerful. >> when are you talking about aboutg that to congress? >> congress is on the verge of ope toe hope to be the enactment for very strong package of tax measures for small businesses and electionto get them credit so they can expand. sxwr a >> before the election? moderolutely. a number of moderate senate democrats said they oppose repealing or allowing to expire the bush tax cuts on the ealthiest americans. they think that is harmful to growth. theyou guys going to have the ?otes to get through the package you want, which is focused more on middle income americans? >> som the bush taxwe will. what we're proposing is two.ible. >> some in the administration are talking about maybe just keeping all the bush tax cuts for a year or two. that's not going to happen? >> i don't believe it should.

i don't believe it will. the president's proposed to make sure we're leaving in place the for the people that need them most, and can make the most difference in helping make sure the economy comes back that we heal the damage caused. >> job creation has not gone as well as you hoped. what more can you do? well as youe's the small business lending initiative. .hat more can you do? given the lack of appetite on t'sitol hill for my spending plans, any more stimulus? >> the president's proposed a very strong package for help for small businesses. he would give more support to businesseskeep teachers in the classroom. >> but congress has not acted on it. >> they haven't yet. k think there's a good case for do,g it. o thoseoing to keep at that. but, right now, the best thing the government can do, in addition to those things, is help create the conditions for the private sector to start to start and hire again. we've seen six months of jobs invest and hire growth by the private sector. that's pretty good.

layoffs in t pretty good in the -- the pr >> the public sector with the layoffs in the census jobs -- >> but only because of the census. the private sector is starting to add back hours, hire people. we want to see it at faster ite. most people understand this was a deep crisis. a deep he scars ran very deep. grow outng damage. it will take time to repair the damage and take time to grow out proghis. we're making progress. >> in 2009, when the president alked about unemployment insurance extension, he talked extensio about how it was paid for. his time, it was not paid for. the money for the unemployment extensions became added to the suponal debt. utpublicans argued they wanted itpay for it and they supported it but wanted it offset by pending cuts. given that we're going to have forployment for the foreseeable future, high unemployment, isn't it the fiscally responsible ibleg to do is to treat this as isething we know is coming down w ispike so we're not laying the

soden on future generations? >> i don't think so. n a crisis that is this bad, a recession that was that deep, t'ss amount of lasting damage ies.s from recovery, it's of theiate to treat these orengs as emergencies. >> many of the reforms that the president just signed will be determined by regulators. the bill gives more power to wee regulators. some of the same ones that failed the u.s. the last time reform. why should we be confident they'll get it right? >> excellent question. the theory, the basic strategy in the reform bill does not rest on the wisdom of regulators. ortant two important things. it will help consumers make make choices. with better disclosure. much more clarity about the terms of the credit card about ther mortgage loan. they get better protection e ainst the risk of being taken advantage of. it also gives authority we did haveave to put in place strong

constraints on risk taking on all the nation's largest institutions. existuthority did not exist before. and it was essential to what aused the near collapse of the inancial system. >> would these powers have allowed you, if you were treasury secretary at the time, or your predecessor to have staved off the crisis? >> i don't think any reform bill no law in any country that can prevent all crises. but, if we had had this adthority as a country, we would limiteen able to limit risk taking and deal with the trauma that came. less severe. it would have caused much less damage, would have been much less severe. >> you alluded to the consumer financial protection bureau. that was created. many people s on labor uninons and consumer groups say there's one more than want for that j--n

they want for that job. elizabeth warren. the woman who thought it up. do you support that? >> she's one of the biggest advocates. she has huge credibility. she played a decisive role. in helping make the public case for reform. she was very early on in this. >> >> 2007. >> she has enormous credibility. he itution.d be an excellent leader make.at institution. that's a decision the president the make. >> some in the white house have aid you have concerned. concerns. she's been a critic of you, and of policies. do you have concerns? >> i don't. oversiplayed an important role in providing oversight to the programs we put in place to break the back of the financial crisis and put out the financial .ire. >> ken feinberg said u.s. banks set out $1.3 billion in bonuses.

uring the height of the a.r.p.wn. 17 banks made the payoffs after getting t.a.r.p. funds, after getting bailout funds. >> it's an incredible thing. >> it's that's what he reminded us of. in early '09, on the basis of basismance in '08, in the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression, firms that took help from the government bailout, pa because they could not survive people tha without it, still paid out substantial amounts to people >> i >> he wde the decisions. that put us in the crisis. >> is there nothing that can be one about that? >> he went and used the authority he had to change behavior going forward so you didn't have taxpayers' money. now, what h now, what he's also done, our firms g thensibility is to make sure that these firms can never go il k again to paying their ecoutives to take risks that

reatd imperil the stability of the country and the economy as a hole. hy s done a great job. t funds,authority very well. steps, what that when u.s. automakers, when they received hair ailout funds, they had to take serious steps, what are called you hair cuts, layoffs, salary cuts, and banks didn't. you have had ken feinberg supervising. how come banks didn't have to do that? >> great question. because we had, as a country, as a whole, a process of bankruptcy. we did not have a similar process that could deal with the failure of large financial institutions. that was a failure for the or they. not firms like aig or bear nt,arns managed themselves to the point where they could not survive without the government, losses no tools like bankruptcy to force them to restructure and

protect the taxpayer from losses. this reform gives us that shouldty. a type of bankruptcy regime. banks should be paying for the costs of bank failures. we should be able to put them able toheir misery without ausing catastrophic damage to causing catast a whole. > lastly, this has been an odd week for the obama dministration, not necessarily t your department. given the debacle with shirley sherrod and the agriculture department. thepresident said this is a teaching moment for him and his administration. did secretary vilsack said the same thing. did you learn anything from watching your colleagues go r colleathis? >> as the president said, i think you saw a general rush to eral rush everywhere. in the press and outside the e, it' i agree, it's something we should all take caution from. and look at these things and looky. he spoke to that, i thought, oiningearlier this week. >> secretary geithner, thank you

so much for joining us. ingthank you. and joining me now, new jersey's governor chris christie. thank you for joining me. islcome to "this week." happy t to be here. >> your victory last november in the very blue state of new jersey was seen as a blueprint for victories for the republicans. many people said you won by criticizing the incumbent overnor john corzine. do you agree? second, how do you see your victory in the context of what republicans can do in november? >> i think what we did last year >> i was say specifically what direction we wanted to take the ction we. wananted to have less spending, nt,ller government, lower taxes. and common sense regulation that and co was going to help grow private jobs.r jobs. nd so, i didn't go line item by line item through the budget in the riggn.

i didn't think it was the right thing to do. i think republicans across the country need to get back to our brand. coun hat is the republican brand. it's why i became a republican. it less government, lower taxes, less spending and common sense egulation that grows private ector jobs. country.n tells anything, if we get back to basics, we speak to some of the concerns that people have in new jersey and across the country. >> the biggest item on your agenda is dealing with the budget. budg here you are on cnbc. >> we passed a budget that cuts m11 billion from our state's state's balances it without any balances iteases on the people of the state of new jersey. >> patrick murray, director of allling of monmouth university says that's a nice talking point. it's absolutely untrue. there are a lot of legal obligations that the state has that the governor ignored. budget analysts say the $11 billion deficit was closed deficitby avoiding costs.

avoidinget skipped a $3.1 billion payment to the pengs fund. continuing a decade-long pattern christie had had criticized. the billions you're not funding, g,e you doing this just by executive fiat? ohio doe how does this work? there are legal obligations, right? >> the legislature passed this budget. cted to et i presented on march 16th has $11 billion less spending than was projected to be done in the corzine dministration. porick is okay as a pollster. here,not going to be that great as a governor. we did here, we took $1.7 less in education funds. $1 billion was federal stimulus funding. it had been spent in one year by the corzine administration. we were left with a $1 billion ole. across the board, jake, we had to reduce spending. every department of state government was cut.

stateare going to be cuts you make that you like and some you like less. billion you have an $11 billion hole to fill, you have to fill t. i wasn't going to but $3 billion in a failing pension system. we need pension reform. i passed some already for new system.n march. fter his fall, we're going to go after health benefit reform and pension reform, because we're o new broke. >> in the clip, you said no new tax increases on people of the f the of new jersey. jerslso, your state did not fund $1 billion in direct fund $1y tax rebates. he homestead rebate. hat means that people's property taxes will go up. >> what we did, we did a couple did,ings. first, we changed it from a we property tax rebate program to a direct credit. processing the $20 million a year in processing the checks and borrowing the money to pay ody was going h

everybody was going have to make for thed sacrifice. ms for theust going to cut programs just for the vulnerable ev or just for the rich. that but programs for the middle class. everything had to be cut. that program will be back as a direct tax credit fourth quarter fiscal '11. sn't thatat shared sacrifice? is that not a tax increase? if you're taking away a rebate even temporarily, that's an increase, isn't it? >> i don't see it that way. increagiving the tools to the to cipalities. with the 2% property tax cap we tassed in july, by me calling the legislature back into to b fall tosession. with the tools that we're going to be passing this fall to cut spending even more at the municipal level. so so people don't see a huge increase at banease this the property tax in the next years at all. >> there's been a lot of tension between you and teachers. here's one example from a recent town hall meeting. >> you're not compensating me for my education or my to doence.

dowell, you know what? then you don't have to do it. >> teachers do it because they love it. n it's the only reason i do it. >> listen, and teachers go into it knowing what the pay scale zblnd t the >> i know you said your issue is with teacher's uninons, not with individuals. what do you say to residents what do yo that say they like your stance on taking on the teacher's that say oions but a clip like that makes it seem like you don't respect the teaching profession. makes it likedo respect the teaching profession. ofession. duct of the public deeply in the state of new jersey. i care deeply about our public public on. we can't have one sector of our society sheltered from the recession the recession at the coast of thepeople that are hurt by the recession the most. most.ilding trades have unemployment at 35% to 50%. they're getting no raises, no benefits any longer. yet, their property taxes ndntinue to go up to pay for 4%

and 5% salary increases for teachers unions. ost of the teachers in new jersey, because of the unions, pay nothing toward their health benefits from the day they're hired until the day they die. a can't have one set of rules t set ofsmall sector and a different set of rules for everyone being hurt by the recession and say, by the way, you pay for this special treatment. that may be tough talk. it's direct. that's what we have to do to get dogets under control in new jersey and around the country. >> you've been known in the >> you'v state house and nationally for a blunt style. here's an example of that. >> like it or not, you guys are g the with me for four years. and i'm going to say things ou ask me when you ask me questions, i'm straightly, ave g to answer them directly, straightly, bluntly, and nobody in new jersey is going to have to wonder where i am on an issue.

>> that's a high bar. bar.s do it. directly, straightly, bluntly. should new jersey join the lawsuit that other states have ve ed against the administration st t the individual mandate in stration over threform bill? he i have my attorney general ll? commissioner of health orney general hings. what are the chances of succeeding in the lawsuit? ecause with limited resources in new jersey, i'm not going to and wh s row good money after bad. and what is the effect of this 2000-page bill going to be on jersey.ple of new jersey? when i get answers back, i'll ake a decision. >> what is your impulse? >> i don't have one. i'm waiting to get briefed on it. >> immigration reform. you said it's too important to >>magogue. who is demagoguing in the senate right now? and what is the solution to immigration reform? >> that is a 2-year-old quote. there were things going on that i thought was demagoguery. i called it that. this issue is a federal issue ohat should be handled by the

feds and should be fixed by the for seven ye ads. as a former u.s. attorney, plate,o deal with these issues for seven years. the president and the congress orward astep up to the plate, hey have to secure the borders and put forward a common sense ath to citizenship for people. until they do that, states will struggle all over the country with this problem. and so will federal law enforcement. isis the republican party in congress help or hindrance to partyeform? >> i think it depends on which congress republican you're talking about. i don't think the party is at a about.ized stance. folks have been all over the map over thessue. on this thing there's one one al republican position. >> there are democrats offering arell. they can't get any republicans o join them. >> well, listen, the fact of the matter is, they have to build consensus. and i think that's the president at's he wanted to do it when he came to town. i think that's the challenge for those in the majority. find way to build consensus. we have a democratic legislature. thessed a budget with the

$11 billion in cuts with the taxcratic legislature. a property tax cap. pension reforms with a democratic legislature. if you want to lead and build can.ensus, you can. >> two more quick questions. he stimulus bill. net positive or negative for the state of new jersey? >> short term positive. rt termow feeling the negative. negatily, i know you like to has about new jersey's cultural icons. the you prefer to talk about bruce springsteen. "the new york times" today has the profile of snooki. mtv's "jersey shore" positive or negative? posegative. it takes bunch of new yorkers, most of the people on "jersey shore" are from new york. drops them at the jersey shore and tries to make people think this is jersey. i welcome people to come to new people toytime. the jersey shore is a beautiful place. some place everybody should come on vacation. we got another six weeks or so of summer left.

come to new jersey. ch.thank you so much. >> thank you, jake. "the roundtable" is next. and later, "the sunday funnies." >> so, anyway, the president of british petroleum, tony hayward, is leaving his job. it's not official. not official. out. it just leaked out. we know why we're here. to build a new generation of airplanes to connect the world. ♪ airplanes that fly cleaner and farther on less fuel. and make nonstop travel possible to more places. ♪ [ female announcer ] around the globe, the people of boeing are working together -- to bring us together. that's why we're here. ♪

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funnies." "meg whitman says she'll run california like her company..." seen this attack on meg whitman? who are these people? they're the unions and special interests behind jerry brown. they want jerry brown because, he won't "rock the boat," in sacramento. he'll be the same as he ever was. high taxes. lost jobs. big pensions for state employees.

the special interests have chosen their governor. how about you? department of agriculture depart aficial shirley sherrod was hirley on tape saying something immediately.ing.

miss sherrod must resign immediately. a i was in the position of land.g to help a white person save their land. so i didn't give him the full force of what i could do. he ful full speech has been as beend by the naacp. it backs up miss sherrod's version. >> apparently southeast watching this briefing, shirley sherrod, anythi ight now on cnn. anything you want to say so her? >> on behalf of the administration, i offer our apologies. >> i offered her my apologies. and she was gracious enough to accept them. >> to have people think that i was a racist. really, really hurt. >> the affair sherrod. one of the many topics we'll ta talk about today with stephen phens, donna brazile, the democratic strategist and our dear friend, and sam donaldson, democratic s and, of course, cokie roberts. thanks all you have for being here. we'll get to sherrod in a s.cond. i want to talk about the geithner interview.

he said much of a geithner said he hopes here isn't going to be much of a fight over trying to keep the tax cuts for the lower income, under $200,000. for a individual. $250,000 for family. is there going to be a fight? >> hope will only take you so ght. i think there will be a fight. think one of the main constituencies in the fight will be moderate democrats. i think you'll see them walk back from the administration's eagerness to see this tax hike on what they're calling the wealthiest americans. by donna? >> the 2011 budget anticipates that we can close the deficit largely by allowing the bush tax argumentxpire. i think the president should not get into the argument should he, should he not? newrather to present a series of a new tax package. don't call it bush tax cuts. a new tax package aimed toward the middle class, small businesses, that will close tax loopholes and ensure whatever

package we put forward is economic fiscally pruden't, paid for, and itps spur economic growth. we what do you think, sam? >> it should continue it for 95%. ki as far as the wealthy, to go from 35% to 39% is not going to ill them. they'll have something to eat the next day. here's my proposal. there is a point -- >> a proposal from sam --aldson. >> i like that. donaldson. p there is a point that, at continuent, perhaps we should theinue to extend the tax cuts across the board. pu but put in a trigger. when the national deficit gets work.r, when unemployment gets better, use of other indexes, sn't folggers raise it for the ealthy. >> triggers never work. congress puts it in. e 's basically fig leafs. >> the congress doesn't follow

modesh. > that's my point. i don't think there's a chance that republicans would agree with my modest proposal. >> it's a political question. who gets to frame it? thehe democrats get to say that to republicans claim they're against the deficit but they e deficiteep in the tax cuts for taxrich people including the wall street bankers that got the huge bonuses? wall stree or do the republicans say, look, or do the say, are the democrats going at taxes.ain, raising the taxes. just so they can raise that bending because they want the tvernment to take over every oft of american life. i think that is a lot of what the the debate and election will be lramed around. >> and the debate comes as ben bernanke, the fed chair, is calling the outlook unusually uncertain. that's chilling. >> the market went 200 points down. >> the market is starting to evitate again. maybe unwisely. ksrope shows better numbers.

the earning season looks good some of the peoplig companies. not just the banks. i think we some of the people that make hings. i think we're going to come out of it. >> but the numbers are mixed. there are plenty of numbers pointing in the other direction. if you look at the big picture, if the question i think facing sort of nerve w .f everybody in washington right now, with respect to the tax cuts. one of the things that surprised me most about your interview your tim geithner said that aising the taxes on the taxesiest americans won't st americans won'tfect on growth. hat was a stunning statement. i think you could poll 1,000 economists. i think very few economists would agree. one of them is christina romer in the white house. she's got an article in the current "american economic large," june 2010, in which she says, tax increases have a large and substantial negative effect on growth. >> they have to be careful about effestate tax.

>> there is none. >> not right now. and the heirs of george stein brener are happy for that. >> we have to be careful how we have this. >> we have to be careful how we years, wis. e both know, stephen, over the grown.en years, we have seen the the 1% of their incomes have half. meanwhile, the bottom half of earncountry, the bottom half of the income earners, their wages have stagnated. the president has to be wise be wisto look at the entire at thef tax cuts he could rovide small businesses, middle ncome. individuals that will help spur >> one numberowth. umthe one number that matters is the unemployment number. nowpresident is now saying they're expecting to get to 8% they'r or lower until maybe the end of 2012.

not then becomes not only a ampening -- have a dampening effect on the economy. effect but that becomes an even bigger >> t political problem. > there are two commissions looking at the problem of our debt. hey our economic situation. both of them say by the end of theyear when they report, we're is countrye stunned by the rojections for this country if we don't start cutting unnecessary expenses and getting hold of the debt. un >> some of them are necessary arenses. medicare and social security. >> the fight that the defense department says is unnecessary. >> you know perfectly well, sam, that that doesn't save you any money. and turn itw billion. >> you could close down the apitol and turn it into condos. social security, medicare, interest on the national debt. >> and the loss of revenue.

this recession has taken a bite out of the economy. onre not collecting money. s. we could be on capital gains. rivate the most important thing the government could do is get grow out of the way of private sector wowth. and raising taxes on whom ever in a recession is one of the most foolish things you could of the administration buys the rgument that raising taxes in a recession is a bad idea. yo you have heard administration hind wals say it before. it's behind what they did in the idea.nal stimulus. point,it's a bad idea. but at some point, we're going >> there are p administration the recession. >> there are people in the administration talking about maybe keeping the bush tax cuts in place for everyone for a year keepingr. geithner said no. f but a trigger. otherwise congress will never come back -- >> have the same debate in two years. >> how do we pay for it? 'm going to be like the co republicans for 30 seconds. how do we pay for it? how do we pay for it? we pay that the bush tax cuts is one of the drives forces

it?nd the huge deficit? it's not paid for. >> it's part of it. what iton statics. growth, you ct what it does for economic growth, you could argue you'll make up some of the revenues. to 2008.any jobs were created rom 2001 to 2008? how many jobs? we los >> i don't know the number. >> hardly any. taxost jobs. we should have tax cuts that help spur growth. it's about jobs, jobs, jobs. that'sink that's right. he question is what cuts. not just cuts. not ju >> small business is the engine for job growth. engine le we're talking about, wealth-called wealthy, most of them are small business owners. > most of the wealthy -- >> put people back to work. talkingho you're talking about. >> most of the wealthy are the top 3% are small business owners? wrong. >> tths it's less than a quarter. >> i want to move to the subject of the unemployed and the

nemployed, i mean shirley sherrod, who is the most notable unemployed person in america n,ght now. nte white house says they had nothing to do with it. but shirley sherrod, on cnn, after speaking to president obama said she wasn't so sure. >> i firmly believe that someone in the white house was telling t thethat the white house wanted me to resign. > donna, the white house says no. >> says all secretary tom vilsack's call. no. do you believe that? >> they've told me the same story. tom vt's not what i asked you. >> i know. do you believehe same story. y told mis the source. my source said we had nothing to >> o with it. look, miss sherrod told a story of redemption. go, we all know from the facts,

everyone, everyone, there's ev enough crow to go around to ensure that everyone continues to eat bird until turkey season. the white house jumped the gun. fox news and others who allowed this bogus tape to hit the air waves. >> the naacp. >> the >> the naacp that did not call the local chapter. did not confer with miss locald. it's mind boggling. i talked to miss sherrod. ploouchlt.ew up in the deep of theas i did, you know the history of the movement. the history of the sherrod story.. you know shirley sherrod's yersonal story. i'm ashamed so many people failed to google her name. >> the only people that could fire her were the hatinistration. ration. news, not the naacp. the only administration could naacp.er. they bear the most culpability here. i think, by a long shot. true.ther thing that's true. what she actually did say gets wh d right back to the last ht back toon.

what she did say was that the ivision, she came to nderstand, were really not really black and white but between haves and have nots. that is what turned her around and made her fight for the white farmers. >> and i think except for her, there's enough blame to go aroundfor everyone here. tention.le that maliciously and firsttention misrepresented the dment. i believe in the first amendment. but you wish for joseph welch to say, have you no decency at last? thes from the standpoint of obama and ntion to andration, who are aidse people they should pay attention to and be afraid of? i mean i mean who is glenn beck, bill o'reilly. who is brett whatever his name and >> andrew breitbart. >> i want to quote another tosident.

who also said he had enemies. class antagonism. they're unanimous in their hatred for me. and i welcome it. said franklin roosevelt. he said, i ask you to judge me by the enemies i have made. president obama, take them on. let them judge. >> this is an argument you hear from a lot of liberal activists. josh marshall who writes, speaking of andrew breitbart, who posted the video originally, the unfairly edited excerpt. which he says that the way he got it was in that unfairly t ated excerpt. breitbart got a piece of video he knew nothing about and published wit a central claim. that he either made up or made no attempt to verify. eo use terminology of infectious

disease, fox was the primary verdicter of this story. this i there's been not only no disciplining or retraction or discussion of the primary role in an obvious smear. this is a journalistic felony. a reality only compounded that they refused to admit they did anything wrong. stephen, do you think that this -- that liberals are using y using this to try to discredit conservative journalists? they w >> no way. they would never to that. of course. of doesn'tline doesn't work. .he actually resigned or was forced to retire before anybody forced to anything abo word about this. theysenior vice president of news sent out a memo talking about the need to treat this carefully, gather all the facts. it's an easy distraction. involved thehey want to do. speederstand that. what donna said involved the peech. it was, for most of the speech, a fantastic speech. a compelling speech. a moving speech.

i mean, to hear the stories about the county, hear about her aboutging. the man who burned crosses in her front yard. the compelling stories. incredibly moving. hat happened then in the speech he speec she slipped into what i ppedk are easy accusations of racism that don't work. yhe said, in the middle of her speech. of herch speech, she talked shet republicans. republlways about money, she ey, she haven't seen such mean spirited people as i have seen said, itely. over the issue of health care. some of the racism we thought was buried. didn't it surface? we endured eight years of the bushes. >> bill o'reilly called for her .o be fired. fox?t he on fox? >> so did the white house. so did the usda. >> but there was racism that ame up in the health care

debate. he vilification of john lewis at the capital. this is a conversation we just don't have. i mean, i really think eric holder was right. we're cowardly about talking about race. i had a cross burned in my front yard, too. i ha mynow what it was like to grow hosen the south in those years. ruthtruth is that the onversation is just different just whites and among blacks. it is. bd we have to be able to address that if we're ever going ver goingst this. wewe have any opportunity to perfect this union, that's what tohave to do. >> i agree. to do.n't you think one of the think one don't have this haversation about race is ecause of the kind of comments istnding republicans as racist oppopposing health care? this has nothing to do -- >> what about calling the president of the united states a tacist? st?is that racist, to call somebody a racist? people heardt she was saying, i heard

y pippeech in its entirety. and i went public when i heard the speech. what she was what she was talking about was the political climate, that yes, ome in the republican party the condoned because they refuse to repudiate the elements within their party that have refuse to hate too far. far. the bertha notion, the illegitimacy. and creating the kind of racial illegitima that prohibits us rley having a genuine conversation. rks, >> donna, shirley sherrod, also he on cnn, said something about >> i kno black breitbart. he posted the video. here's what she had to say. >> i know i've gotten past black gotten past. he's probably a person who has never gotten past it and never attempted to get past it. i think he would like to get us stuck back in the times of slavery. i think tha that's write think he would like like to to see all black people end up ain.n. >> this woman's been offered a job as a deputy director of

the office of advocacy and she' outreach. she's saying andrew breitbart wants to return to the days of slavery. you can can think what he did thinkprehensible. irresponsible. unfair. ear.tal smear. does that justify saying he gots us to go back to the days of slifry? >> i'm not going to second-guess miss sherrod. i will say mr. breitbart should resign -- breitbart. >> from what? usiness ofcokie. i'm not in the business of getting people fired. her. i've been fired once. i think he should apologize to her. this is this is a woman who, her father as murdered. no one was brought to justice. she has anger she was talking about. sh at she talked about how she st -- how she came to struggle and this and went on to start the life anew.

et me just say, going back to the conversation, can we have a conversation about race? yes. it cannot start in washington, with politicians. it must start back in georgia hele miss sherrod and the spooners can help us lead the dialogue. if mr. breitbart would like to be part of the conversation, we welcome it. >> i disagree. i think it can start in it. ington. i think it can start in the i think i ks aboutuse. ngthink we have an opportunity -- everybody talks about it being a teachable moment. well, let's learn and have the president be the teacher in ent be the inand mitch mcconnell is asked about an aspect of this and says, i don't want to get into that. all right. that's his privilege. that's h the leader of the republicans in the senate. but it takes all the sides to get into it, civilly, not calling names or calling people calsts on either side and talk about it. that's not going to happen. that's not nfortunately. >> civil rights used to be a nonpartisan issue. republit black or white or left

repus right. i keep telling republicans it was republicans that brought e when the e johnson tapes when johnson was ready to sign the bivil rights bill. ofwas dead of summer. he's saying to his aides, make his that the republicans are ake . ns are going to sign this without dirkson being in the i'm not inm. they had so much to do with it. >> dirkson, the leader of the senate, the republican, made the last speech. quoteded victor hugo. nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come. that's the way the republicans in the senate acted. thinkhink they should sit down. down.'t know what she drinks. >> he would say i don't want to could f this. >> i know they could find a common language to talk about the future if they would talk to reen dowder. gestsureen dowd suggests that shirley sherrod should be offered a job if the white white

the first black president should expan, beyond his campaign security blanket, the smug kor his her a overprotective white guys surrounding him. he should give her a new job, needtor of black outreach. this white house needs one. should gowhite house need one? whether or not the job should go to shirley sherrod? >> i hope that the white house would bring in more people. would brin people that understand history and can they won't run the president. it downey hear a conversation like they have, hopefully, they afterrun to the hilltops. they can sit down and say, let's talk about this. i know after having talked to valerie jarrett, she's deeply she'sned. >> it's not black outreach. i mean, please. it's outreach on this issue for blacks and whites and people of of color. all right, we need someone for all k outreach, that's the wrong direction. >> stephen? >> i don't think creating a new don't thif black outreach is

going to solve the country's ofblem on race. and certainly, after looking at miss sherrod, her history, comments after seeing miss sherrod's comments about andrew breitbart, she would not be the ideal person for the job. >> 30 seconds. >> i think it's a basic point anre has been an ignorance in ine ways of the immediate past ays of that some of us lived through. of the young people in the white ouse is true. needhat there does need to be a better understanding of that in order to just try to salve the wounds. >> wonderful job. "the roundtable" continues in the green room, on abcnews.com, and on our new ipad app. still to come, "the sunday funnieh".ock er stood still.

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jay leno had some fun with our interview with vice president biden. that's just one part of "the sunday funnies." presid onelet's start with a topic that is ripped from the headlines. >> topic tni butt war between the kardashian sisters. kim and kourtney. >> these are gigantic packages. co deal with the gigantic weblem. >> i think we need to choose between the two. betwee >> we're not going to lose either one of those bodies. >> david cameron is visiting the

u.s. and yesterday, he and president u.s.a gave each other pieces of art. he and that really wasn't necessary, asn't n. haveave already given us a huge oil painting. mexi >> not great day in the gulf of exico. stae are rumors that the containment cap is starting the when asked if when asked if the rumors were true, the bp spokesperson said, ren't there any more mel gibson tapes? >> you know who is going run for president? jeb bush. theuse what america needs right abois a bush. honestly. i feel the same way about bush presidencies as i do about the "godfather " films. you're better off stopping at stopping at >> we'll be right back. [ man ] if it was simply about money, every bank loan would be a guarantee of success. at ge capital, loaning money is the start of the relationship, not the end. i work with polaris every day. at ge capital, we succeed only when they do. whoo!

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this is my last show as showim anchor at "this week." it's been an honor hosting the show for the past couple of onths. toant to thank you and abc news ion the privilege of being able to do it. my new colleague, christiane e,anpour will be here next week. i wish her the best of luck. i'll see you soon. of luck. i'll see you soon.

in the news, a young girl is killed in an early morning apartment fire in san jose. also another pit bull attack, a 7-year-old girl is bitten in the face by a neighbor's dog. join us next for the news at 9:00.