welcome to beyond the headlines. every week we focus on a different topic. today we're going to talk about the risks of concussion from playing football at all skill levels. we're going sit down with two

former football players and find out what it's like to put your body through the violent conditions and find out what is doing at the high school level. later on in the snow we'll be joined by a neurosurgeon to tell us how big a problem it is. first, in the first two months of the 20 months of n.f.l. season, there has been more than 43 concussions record. roger gudel has been cracking down on the problem. some problems say it will take away some of the excitement but others say it's a necessary action before somebody gets really hurt. here is karen travers with more on the story. >> reporter: for professional footballs, this is part of the game. a part that the n.f.l. now wants to eliminate. the league announced it will begin suspending players if they make dangerous contact.

in the past they faced fines. it comes after a wave of devastating plays like this collision. that hit knocked them both out with concussions. many veterans shrug their shoulders. >> it's a dangerous game, it really is. you don't want to see hits like that but it's part of the game. >> others question whether the league went too far. >> if you go into the game thinking about that stuff, the game will be diluted very quickly. >> they slapped one player with a $75,000 fine for a hit that didn't even earn him a penalty. he is threatening early retirement. >> how can i continue to play the game the way i was to taught to play the game since i was ten

years old. >> but they are drawing criticisms of being hypocritical. >> we get money for these hits and the n.f.l. profits. >> less profit going forward. the n.f.l. has stopped the online sales of photographs of harrison's hit saying with the new rules no images of illegal hits will be available for sale again. >> joining us now to talk about professional football and concussions are two former n.f.l. players that are very familiar with football fans. bill romanofski and mike shumann. do you think that football is more dangerous today than ever? >> there is no question. part of the reason is i think the size and speed of the player if you play linebacker, patrick willis runs a 4, 440, it's

getting hit bike a volcanos wagon. >> i had four major concussions as a player. in high school and college, probably six to eight more. i'm up around 12 concussions in my total football career. the side effects, short term memory, bright lights bother me and loud noises and i was an offensive player. defensive players have more. >> i had 20 plus concussions. at the end of my career i got to the point every time i hit somebody, i played linebacker in the n.f.l. i was part of an early age. if you hit somebody hard as you can, put every ounce of energy and t t to do that with your head you'll do damage.

when you do that you'll be rgsed by your teammates and liked by your coaches and this the n.f.l. you will get paid more. that is the way i played the game. 20 plus concussions later that is what i'm dealing with. >> what are some of the effects? >> i left the raider parking lot two weeks before my retirement and i couldn't find my home. that along with riding down the street listening to the radio, all time favorite song and i could not tell you who sang it. it's something i listened to thousands of times. those things were happening every day. do i still have episodes? yeah, i have episodes but, how i like at it. it's mind over matter. i try not to think about it. it's something my professional career now i've been working on doing something about that.

>> mike, i wanted to get back to you. when you were a kid, you had a lot of concussions as a kid did people talk about that? >> not at all. i first started playing in high school. it was basically a shell of a helmet with a strap going around. we were taught to hit with your shoulder. as the game progressed, we talked about ronnie lott, running through people and then it went to the head. in high school and college, if you got your bell running, you would go back in the game. that was good enough. all of us, like bill said, every time you hit someone you got a mild concussion. i'm going to be thinking twice about going over there after getting laid out, that smart of the game. >> now, do you check with

people. >> how many fingers do i have up. what are you doing right now. is there a game going on. do you know the score. what day is it. there were times i remember in a championship game when i was denver bronco, i got side the side and came off the field, got to the sideline and i sat in john elway's lap. they asked me how many fingers they had up, i said stop asking me these stupid questions. the next time i went back out on the field. >> how do you perform when you are out of your mind? >> it's one of those things where to me the sideline represented failure. there was nothing that was going to keep me going out on the field. it's been something i had done my whole life. shaken off, to me, when we got concussion or dinged you shake it off and try to get your

balance back. your clarity comes badge and you can kind of remember what is going on. you get to the huddle. for me, i had to call plays. >> will is a lot of instinct. >> it's an instinctive game. all of us has been dinged. with the st. louis cardinals, i made one more catch for that. i was begging them to put me back in. i made a catch and came back on out. if you get hit again, you can go into a coma. that the things you do to stay on the field. >> we're going to take a break and be back in just a moment. when we come back, we'll talk with mike and bill in what the n.f.l. should do toooooo minimie n.f.l. should do toooooo minimie head injuries.s.s.s.s.s.s.s.s.s.

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they were having a sale! announcer: the ikea sale. i'm going back for more! announcer: december 26th through january 9th. save up to 60%. ikea. the life improvement store. welcome back on beyond the headlines, we're talking about football safety and concussions and we continue our discussion. so i want to ask you each, which what should the n.f.l. do? clearly from the games we've

seen they weren't enforced. >> they are starting to be enforced. you are seeing that. defensive players having to alter the way they attack somebody, most guys lead with their heads. i think the question is, the intent and is it malicious. a quarterback standing throwing the ball. somebody hits him in the head, that is intent. a wide receiver, somebody hits him, same thing. you have a commissioner making the call. somebody from the players' side needs to be in there. and go through tests to go back on the field. >> are you seeing any changes? >> absolutely. the fines that are levied, $50,000, potential suspensions, when you start thinking about suspensions, these guys the salaries they are making, if they miss a game you are talking about $250,000, a lot of money if tha these guys are making.

for them to start worrying about losing the game. they are going to alter the way they hit. that is potentially going to put them in jeopardy. if you are a defense player and all of a sudden you try to ease up in some way and turn your head a certain way, hit with a shoulder, you are going to put yourself in serious jeopardy as a defensive player being out on the football field. >> you can break your neck. especially during halfway through the season, they started applying this rule. you can't expect the player to change the way he plays. >> with the training and how do you magically do it. you can't. >> here is another thing. have you seen adrian peterson run into somebody. when are they going to fine an offensive guy? some of the hits are ferocious,

it's something we love about the game. it's the gladiator approach is what people love. i think it will take away from the game itself. >> you have to running full speed and you let up because you don't want to get fined,. and you are going to put your job in jeopardy. if you don't make plays and make those hits, the coaches are going to be like, well maybe we can find a guy who makes a little less money who won't do it. >> so it's not going to happen right away, because you don't want to lose your job but you don't want players suffering and having concussions. >> i don't think we can get away from that. i think it's pretty clear that

if you play the game of football you're going to get a concussion. that is the reality of it. now, it's just a matter what do you do about it? how do you take care of yourself? do you take yourself out of game. what do the doctors have for you -- i think there is a lot of things you do to help once you have a concussion. >> its most violent force there is. >> if you have the commissioner determining the intent is malicious, john madden you play one down in the n.f.l. your body will never be the same physically. a player needs to be there to determine whether it's malicious or bad intent. both sides have to be remitted. >> bill, you did something for yourself to help yourself heal. like i said i left the raider

parking lot two weeks before, couldn't find my home. went to all the doctors that the n.f.l. sent me to. they told me three times. time is your friend. there is nothing you can do. we don't know if you'll end up like mohammad ali. so i hired my distribution and scientist and came up with a product. the product is actually this here and i started a company. this is really just for me. what i did i started handing it out to people and giving it to guys that i played with. is it making my brain perfect? no, but i can function well during the day and it's mind over matter. 30 nutrients for the brain. you have to feel your brain. it's more different than taking protein for the muscles. >> i want to thank you most.

all right. we do have to take a quick break. we'll hear about a high school to ensure player safety. please stay with us. ♪ [ female announcer ] why choose between delicious or 100 calories? ♪ with yoplait delights, now you can finally have both.

♪ it's the perfect parfait, with two indulgently rich layers of chocolate and raspberry yogurt and only 100 calories. yoplait delights. get rid of the "or." welcome back to beyond the headlines, i'm cheryl jennings. joining us right now to talk about what high schools are doing is athletic direct leo

lopez. school owns a national record, 161 game win streak in 1992 to 2003. thank you both for being here today. the problem of concussion among students. let me start with you. there is a new rule that went into effect. >> they passed a had you law that any student that have symptoms of a concussion must be removed immediately from play and they have to be cleared, written kleernd by a medical provider before they return. >> how is that enforced? >> for the most part the infrastructure that most schools have, trainers and doctors, students and parents work together the appropriate time to come back. >> everybody is different.

>> recovery, every person is a little bit different. >> and different schools depending on what they 2 in place to help educate the individuals. >> how big is the problem of concussion? >> i think its huge problem. we're just starting to understand the importance of this at the high school level. you are seeing that more and more in the n.f.l., but we're just getting an understanding of how important it is for the younger individuals. >> is it easy to recognize? >> it's difficult. sometimes you can see signs when the injury takes place. oftentimes it's symptoms they are reporting so you are relying on the athlete to report those problems they may be having.

education is important to them in what to look for. >> what about keeping a player in. >> they are trying to teach them life lessons and make them better people. it's important to work with the kids and parents and coaches and trainers what is right for the student athlete. most coaches know there is a serious problem and i don't their they would leave them in there. >> we're very fortunate with the coaches that we have. they understand that these are high school kids. there is life beyond high school sports. they can look past that big game and do what is best for the kid.

>> it's tough for the parents, i'm sure. >> because they are minors, but it's educating the parents what to look for and what to watch for as they are recovering in this. to really teach them so they understand as they are going through the process, they are going to get better but it is going to take time. that is the biggest thing. >> a few more seconds left but final thoughts out there. >> they want to get the education out there and coaches need to talk to parents on what can happen and more education we can get the better the situation will be. >> i agree with leo. it's about education to teaching the parents and teaching the athletes so they don't try to hide anything. >> thank you so much. we really appreciate it. >> we do have to take another break.

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enjoy cinnabon cinnamon... now in all pillsbury cinnamon rolls. welcome back. today we've been talking about football concussion and safety on playing fields. we've heard from players and officials. joining us is the chief of neurosurgery. dr. jeff manly. we heard from mike and bill about concussions. >> one of the problems is the definition. con cubs is within the spectrum of head injuries. we define it as any external force in the head that causes a change in the brain function or permanent change. therefore it's an issue of grading of injuries. >> how previous lechbt would you say that it is in sports.

>> i think one of the problems is again, one of defin, so the cdc reported that we had 1.7 million head injuries every year, but when they look at sports concussions they say there is about 3 million. fromite in terms of the defend sig is anything there is 35 million head injuries every year which means it's really truly a major health problem. >> what would you say the symptoms is very classic symptoms. we grade these concussions from grade one to grade three. so you don't have to lose consciousness to have a concussion. people that have concussions have difficulty with headaches. they have lethargy. they can have a myriad of symptoms. this is one of the reasons why people should seek out medical attention if they have external force injury to the head that results any kind of neurological change. >> is there any standard at all?

>> right now we're working on updated set of guidelines in order to define better what concussions are but we grade those as grade one, grade two, grade three, grade three being the worst where you lose consciousness and grade one or two is whether you lost consciousness, excuse me whether neurological injuries longer than 15 minutes. >> to clarify, by 15 minutes, i mean for example, if you get your bell running, those symptoms can last for less than 15 minutes would be great one or more than 15 minutes and any and any loss of consciousness even for a moment is grade three concussion. >> so mike and bill have problems --. >> one of the problems we have and the reason why there is controversy today, we have very limited information, there has

been little attention paid to this problem. we need more research. we've never followed these patients up in a systematic way. if you were to break your arm there would be a follow-up we would do. if you injure your brain there nor standards about how frequently you should be followed up. as result we really don't know. this is the reason why i think there is so much misunderstanding and so many opinions today. >> and you have taken to the national institute of health. >> and last year they only spent $81 million to study the problem that is estimated at $61 billion a year in this country. there are professional athletes that have sports contracts in excess what we spend on an entire country looking at the problem. >> does the n.f.l. have a responsibility to the long-term

health of the players? >> i think that everybody has a responsibility to take part in this, both the players, the n.f.l. the n.f.l. has made great strides this year in terms of reaching out to scientists to establish commissions and put together to start to look at this. we also need again, from the national institute of health to spend more money to better understand this problem. >> thank you so much. we appreciate your expertise. >> we are out of time. that is in week's beyond the headlines. more information is available on our website at www.abc7.com. click on the community page. if you are looking for community resources in your neighborhood dial 211 for help. i'm cheryl jennings. thanks so much for joining us.bñ