appeal to the president, in foreign policy and national security terms. to that end, ambassador taylor told me that ambassador bolton recommended that he and ambassador taylor send a first person cable to pompeo about the importance of security assistance, and at ambassador taylor's direction, i transmitted the cable on ambassador taylor's behalf on august 29th which further attempted to explain the importance of ukraine and assistance to u.s. national security. by this point, however, my clear impression was that the security assistance hold was likely intended by the president either by expression of dissatisfaction with the ukrainians who had not yet agreed to the investigation, or as an increased pressure to do so. on september 5th, i took notes at senator beyoncena meeting in. although both senators stressed strong bipartisan support for

ukraine, president trump it was said, has a negative view of ukraine, and president zelensky would have a difficult time overcoming it. senator johnson further expla explained he had been quote, shocked by president trump's negative reaction during an oval office meeting when he and the three amigos proposed that trump meet president zelensky, and show support for ukraine. on september 8th, ambassador taylor told me, quote, now they're insisting zelensky commit to the investigation in an interview with cnn. which i took from the three amigos. i was shocked their request was so specific and concrete while he urged our counterparts to follow the rule of law, and generally investigating corruption allegations, this was a demand that president zelensky personally commit on a cable news channel to a specific investigation of president

trump's political rival. on september 11th, the hold was finally lifted after significant press coverage and bipartisan coverage. we were still concerned that president zelensky had committed in exchange for the lifting to give the requested cnn interview. we had several indications that would occur. first, the conference in kyiv was held from september 12th to 14th, and fareed zakaria was one of the moderators. on september 13th, the embassy received a phone call from another colleague who worked for ambassador sondland. my colleague text med regarding that call, that quote, the sondland said the interview is supposed to be today or monday and they plan to announce that a certain investigation that was on hold will progress. sondland's aide did not know if this was decided or if sondland

was advocating for it. apparently he was discussing this with yermak. i ran into yermak in a private meeting and ambassador taylor stressed the importance of staying out of u.s. politics, and said he hoped no interview was planned. mr. geyermak did not answer, bu he shrugged as if he thhad no choice. everyone thought there would be an interview, and the ukrainians believed they had to do it. the interview did not occur. ambassador taylor and i collaborated on input he sent to mr. morrison to brief president trump ahead of a september 25th meeting that was scheduled with president zelensky in new york. the transcript of the july 25th call was released the same day. as of date, i have still not seen a readout of this september 25th meeting. as the impeachment inquiry akwi

wroged, i have read the reports of ambassadors taylor and yovanovitch. based on my experiences in uk why, my recollection is gener generally consistent with their testimony, and i believe that the facts were therefore laid out for the american people. however, in the last couple of weeks, i have read press reports expressing for the first time that certain senior officials may have been acting without the president's knowledge or fr freelancing their dealings with ukraine. at the same time, i also read reports noting the lack of first hand evidence in the investigation suggesting that the only evidence being elicited to hearings was hearsay. i came to realize that i had first hand knowledge regarding certain events on july 26th that had not otherwise been reported and those boor on the president having knowledge that those senior officials were using levers of power to influence the ukrainian president to announce the opening of a criminal investigation against president trump's political opponent.

it is at that point that i made the observation to ambassador taylor that the incident i witnessed on july 26th had acquired greater significance which is what he reported in his testimony last week, and what has led to the subpoena for me to appear here today. in conclusion, i would like to take a moment to turn back to ukraine. today, this very day, marks exactly six years since throngs of pro-western ukrainians spontaneously gathered on kyiv's independent square to launch what became known as the revolution of dignity. while the protests began in opposition to a turn towards russia and away from the west, they expanded over three months to reject the entire corrupt, repressive system that had been sustained by russian influence in the country. those events were followed by russia's occupation of ukraine's

crimean peninsula, and the donbas region, and assuming war has cost almost 13,000 lives to date. despite the russian aggression over the past pifive years, ukrainians have rebuilt a shattered economy, adhered to a peace process, and moved economically and socially closer to the west, toward our way of life. earlier this year, large majorities of ukrainians again chose a fresh start by voting for a political newcomer as president, replacing 80% of their parliament and endorsing a platform consistent with our democratic values, our priorities and our strategic interests. this year's revolution at the ballot box underscores that despite its imperfections, ukraine is a vibrant democracy and example to other post-soviet countries and beyond, from moscow to hong kong. how we respond to this historic

opportunity will set the trajectory of our relationship with ukraine, and will define our willingness to defend our bedrock international principles and our leadership role in the world. ukrainians want to hear a clear and unambiguous reaffirmation that our longstanding bipartisan policy of strong support for ukraine remains unchanged and we fully back it at the highest levels. now is not the time to retreat from our relationship with ukraine, but rather to double down on it. as we sit here today, ukrainians are fighting a hot war on ukrainian territory against russian aggression. this week alone since i have been here in washington, two ukrainian soldiers were killed, and two injured by russian-led forces in eastern ukraine despite declared cease fire. i learned overnight that seven more were injured yesterday. as vice president pence said after his meeting with president

zelensky in warsaw, the u.s./ukraine relationship has never been stronger. ukrainians and their new government earnestly want to believe that. ukrainians cherish their bipartisan american support to sustain their euroatlantic aspirations and they recoil at the thought of playing a role in u.s. domestic politics or elections. at a time of shifting allegiances and rising competitors in the world, we have no better friends than ukraine. the scrappy, unbowed, determined and above all, dignified people who are standing you against russian authoritarianism and aggression. they deserve better. we're now at an inflection point in ukraine, and it is critical to our national security that we stand in strong support of our ukrainian partners. they are watching the example we set here of democracy and the

rule of law. thank you. >> thank you, mr. holmes. dr. hill. >> thank you, mr. chairman. do i need to adjust the microphone? >> is the microphone on? >> i believe it is now. is that right? >> yes, perfect. >> thank you again, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, ranking member nunes and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify before you today. i have a short opening statement. i appreciate the importance of congress's impeachment inquiry, and i'm appearing today as a fact witness as i did during my deposition on october 14th. in order to answer your questions about what i saw, what i did, what i knew, and what i know with regard to the subjects of your inquiry. i believe that those who have information that the congress deems relevant have a legal and moral obligation to provide it. i take great pride in the fact that i'm a nonpartisan foreign

policy expert who has served under three republican and democratic presidents. i have no interest in advancing the outcome of your inquiry in any particular direction except toward the truth. i believe that the interest of congress and the american people is best served by allowing you to ask me your questions. i'm happy to expand upon my october 14th deposition testimony in response to your questions today, but before i do so, i would like to communicate two things. first, i would like to share a little bit about who i am. i'm an american by choice. i became a citizen in 2002. i was born in the northeast of england in the same region that george washington's ancestors came from. both my region and my family have deep ties to the united states. my paternal grandfather fought through world war i in the field artillery. surviving being shot, shelled

and gassed before the war ended in 1918. during the second world war, other members of my family fought against fascism. the men in my father's family were coal miners. his family always struggled with poverty. when my father was 14, he joined his father, brothers, brother and cousins in the coal mines to help put food on the table. when the last of the local mines closed in the 1960s, my father wanted to emigrate to the united states to work in the coal mines of west virginia and pennsylvania. but my grandmother had been crippled, and my father couldn't leave, so he stayed in north england until 2012. my mother still lives there today. my father lived. it's culture, history, and it's a beacon of hope for the world. he always wanted someone in the family to make it to the united states. i began my university studies in

1984, and i learned i went to the same university as my colleague here, mr. holmes in scotland. just thought i would add that. in 1987, i won a place on an academic unit to the soviet union. this was a turning point for me, an american professor who i met there, told me about scholarships to the united states, and the very next year, i arrived in america to start my advanced studies at harvard. years later, i can say with confidence that this country has offered me opportunities i never would have had in england. i grew up poor with a very distinctive working class accent. in england in the 1980s and 1990s, this would have impeded my advancement. this has never set me back in america. for the best part of three decades, i have built a career as a nonpartisan, nonpolitical national security professional

focusing on europe and euroasia. i have served under three presidents. most recently under president trump, as well as under my former position of national intelligence, under presidents george w. bush and barack obama. i was the role senior expert on sovi soviet republics including ukraine. i was asked to join the national security council in 2017. russia was part of my portfolio, but i was also responsible for coordinating u.s. policy for all of western europe, eastern europe, including ukraine and turkey, along with nato and the european union. i was hired initially by general michael flynn, and general keith kello kellogg, and i started in 2018 when general mcmaster was the national security adviser. i and they thought that i could help them with president trump's

stated goal of improving relations with russia while still implementing policies to det deter russian conduct in the united states. including an operation to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. this relates to the second thing i want to communicate. based on questions and statements i have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country, and that perhaps somehow for some reason ukraine did. this is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the russian security services themselves. the unfortunate truth is that russia was the foreign power that systematically attacked our democratic institutions in 2016. this is the public conclusion of our intelligence agencies, confirmed in bipartisan and congressional reports. there is no dispute. the details must remain

classified. the russian campaign remains evident today. our nation is being torn apart. truth is questioned. our highly professional and expert career foreign service is being undermined. u.s. support of ukraine is being politicized. the russian government's goal is to weaken our country, to diminish america's global role, and to neutralize a perceived u.s. threat to russian interests. president putin and the russian security services aim to counter u.s. foreign policy objectives including in ukraine to assert political dominance. i say this not as an ialarmist, but a realist. i continue to believe that we need to seek ways of stabilizing our relationship with moscow even as we counter their empffos to harm us. right now, proxies have

repeatedly interfered in our election. we are running out of time to stop them. i would ask you don't clearly advance russian interests as republicans and democrats have agreed for decades. ukraine is a valuable partner of the united states, and it plays an important role in our national security. as i told the committee, i refuse to be part of an effort to legitimatize an alternative narrative that the ukrainian government is the u.s.'s adversary. these are harmful even if deployed for purely domestic political purposes. president putin and the russian security services operate like a superpac. they deploy millions of dollars in false narratives. when we are consumed by partisan ranker, we cannot combat these external forces as they seek to dw divide us against each other, degrade our institutions and our

democracy. i respect the work that this congress does in carrying out its constitutional responsibilities, including this inqui inquiry, and i'm here to help you to the best of my ability. if the president or anyone else impedes the national security of the united states in order to further domestic, political or further interests, that's more than worthy of your attention, but we must not let this stop us from defending ourself. i'm ready to answer your questions. thank you. >> thank you, dr. hill. we'll now proceed to the first round of questions as detailed in the memo provided. it will be 45 minutes of questions conducted by the chairman or majority council, followed by 45 minutes of the ranking member or minority council. following that, unless i specify additional time, we'll proceed under the five-minute rule, and every member will have a chance to ask questions. i now recognize myself or majority council for the first

round of questions. first of all, thank you both for being here. thank you for testifying. dr. hill, your story reminds me a great deal of what we heard from alexander vindman. the few immigrant stories we have heard in the cost of these hearings are among the most powerful i think i have ever heard. you and dr. -- colonel vindman and others are the best of this country. you came here by choice, and we are so blessed that you did. so welcome. my colleagues took some umbrage with your opening statement, but i think the american people can be forgiven if they have the same impression listening to some of my colleagues during this hearing that russia didn't intervene in our election. it was all the ukrainians. there has been an effort to take a tweet here and an op-ed there, and a newspaper story there, and

somehow equate it with the systemic intervention that our intelligence agencies found that russia perpetrated in 2016 through an extensive social media campaign and a hacking and dumping operation. indeed, the report my colleagues gave you that they produced during an investigation calls into question the accuracy of the intelligence committee's finding that russia intervened to help one side, to help donald trump at the expense of hillary clinton. no one in the intelligence community questions that finding. nor does the fbi or senate, bispab bipartisan intelligence committee, nor does this committee. the house republican report is an outlier, but let me ask you, dr. hill, about your concern with that russian narrative that it wasn't the russians that engaged in interfering in our election in 2016, and of course, this was given a boost when president trump in helsinki in

the presence of putin said he questioned his own intelligence agencies. why are they pushing that idea that it was ukraine? >> the russian interest is to delegitimatize our entire presidency. so one issue that i want to raise, and this would resonate with our colleagues on the committee from the republican party, is that the goal of the russians was really to put whoever became the president by trying to tip their hands on one side of the scale, under a cloud. so if secretary former first lady, former senator clinton had been elected as president, as indeed many expected in 2016, she too would have had major questions about her legitimacy, and i think that, you know, what we're seeing here as a result of all of these narratives, is this is exactly what the russian government was hoping for. if they feed misinformation,

they cede doubt, and they have everybody questioning the legitimacy of our candidate, be it the president, or clinton, that they would pit one side of the electorate against the other. they would pit one party against the other, and that's why i wanted to make such a strong point at the very beginning because there were certainly individuals in many other countries who had harsh words for both of the candidates, who had harsh words for many of the candidates during the primaries. we had a lot of people who were running for president on the republican side. there were many people that were trying themselves to game the outcome. as you know in the united kingdom, the bookies take bets. you can bet on who you think is going to be the candidate. so the russian government would try to land their own bets, but what they wanted to do is land a spread. they wanted to make sure whoever they bet on, or tip the scales, would also experience some discomfort, that they were be holden to them in some way, and

create the kind of chaos we have seen in our politics. i want to emphasize we are very careful as we discuss all of these issues not the give them more fodder that they can use against us in 2020. >> i quite agree. there's an additional benefit, and the russians are equal opportunity meddlers. they will not only help one side, but also just seek to so discord in the united states, along ethnic lines, geographic lines. there is a bow now for russia to put the blame on ukraine, to cast doubt on whether they intervened at all in our election, and blame it on a u.s. ally as a way of driving a wedge between the u.s. and ukraine. is that true? >> that's absolutely the case. you made the point about u.s. allies. russia likes to put a lot of blame on u.s. allies for incidents that they have perpetra perpetrated. we saw that recently with the united kingdom and the russian secret services attack on a

former spy, mr. skripal and his daughter in england. the russians accused the british government of perpetrating this themselves. this falls into a long pattern of deflection, and of the russian government trying to pin the blame on someone else, and as my colleague mr. holmes here as laid out, the russians have an interest in putting ukrainians in a very bad light. all of the issues that we started to discuss today, and that you on the committee have been deeply involved in began with russia's illegal annexation of the peninsula of crimea from the ukraine in 2014 in response, in 2015, and all the acts of aggression russia has been in, since the war in donbas, shooting down the planes over the donbas later period. there is a great deal of hostili hostility, and malign intent towards the ukraine, and it suits the russian government

very much if we are also looking at ukraine to somehow perpetrate malign acts against us. >> mr. holmes, i want to ask you a quick couple of questions, and it is often the case for people, you know, i was honestly at your deposition. i have raeead your opening testimony, but as you learn more facts, you start to see things in different light even though your opening statement is very much consistent with your opening statement during the deposition, and i was struck in particular by something you said on page 10 of your opening statement. while we had advised our ukrainian counterparts to voice a commitment to following the rule of law and generally investigating credible corruption allegations, this was a demand that president zelensky personally commit on a cable news channel about the investigation of president trump's rival. this gets to the point of our hearing yesterday about hypocrisy. here we are and we are urging

ukrainians to commit to following the rule of law as you said, and only investigate genuine and credible allegations, and what are we doing? we're asking them to investigate the president's political rival. ukrainians are pretty sophisticated actors, aren't they? they can recognize hypocrisy when they see it. what does that do to our anti-corruption effort when is they see we're engaging in corruption ourselves? >> yes, sir. we have to build rule of law institutions that are capable when independent, and can pursue credible allegations. that's what we have been doing for quite some time with success, and focusing on particular cases including particular cases where there is interest of the president's, it's just not part of what we have done. it's hard to explain why we would do that. >> it harkens back to the

conversation ambassador volker testified about when he urged ukraine not to investigate or prosecutor poroshenko and the reply from mr. yermak was, oh, you mean like you want us to do with the bietdedens and clinton? they're sophisticated enough to see we're saying, do as we say, and not as we do. >> yes, sir. >> i was struck by your testimony when even after the aid is lifted, ukraine still felt pressure to make these statements, and you and ambassador taylor were worried that they were going to do it on cnn, and you said that ambassador taylor can't stress the importance of u.s. politics and bolton said he hoped no interview was planned, and yermak shrugged as an indication as if they had no choice. everyone thought there was going to been a interview, and the

ukrainians believed they had to do it. you're acknowledging i think mr. holmes, are you not, that ukraine very much felt pressured to undertake these investigations that the president, rudy giuliani, ambassador sond sondland and others were sdmademanding? >> yes, sir. although the hold on the security assistance had been lifted, there were things they wanted they weren't getting including a et mooing with tmee president in the oval office. the ukrainians understood that's something the president wanted and they wanted important things from the president, and i think that continues to this day. i think they're being very careful. they still need us now going forward, in fact, right now president zelensky is trying to arrange a summit meeting with president putin in the coming weeks. it's the first face to face meeting with him to advance the peace process. he needs our support. he needs president putin to understand that america supports zelensky at the highest levels. this is -- this doesn't end with

the lifting of the security assistance hold. ukraine still needs us, and as i said, still fighting this war this very day. >> i would underscore again as my colleague did so eloquently, they got caught. that's the reason the aid was finally lifted. mr. goldman. >> thank you, mr. chairman. good morning to woboth of you. yesterday, we heard testimony from gordon sondland who testified that president trump wanted ukraine to announce these investigations into the bidens and burisma and the 2016 elections because they would benefit him politically, and they used the white house security assistance to pressure the president to do so. dr. hill, you testified i believe in mid june, ambassador sondland told you that he was in charge of ukraine policy. is that right? >> that's correct, sir. yes. >> who did he tell you had put him in charge of ukraine policy? >> he told me it was the

president. >> mr. holmes, did you also understand that ambassador sondland had been given some authority over ukraine policy from the president? >> we understood that he had been told to work with mr. giuliani. >> and did he hold himself out as having direct contact and knowledge of the president's priorities and interests? >> yes, sir. >> now mr. holmes, i want to go to that july 26th date when you overheard the conversation between ambassador sondland and president trump, and i'm going to ask you a little bit about the leadup to that conversation. before the lunch that you described you said that you accompanied ambassador sondland, volker and taylor to a meeting with president zelensky. is that right? >> that's correct. >> and you took notes at that meeting? >> yes, sir. >> and you reviewed those notes

before you came here to evidence the tod testify today? >> yes. >> they were helpful to refresh your recollection as to what happened, right? >> yes. >> during that meeting president zelensky said that on his phone call with president trump the previous day, that three times president trump had mentioned sensitive issues. did understand what president zelensky was referring to when he said the sensitive issues? >> i could be sure what he was referring to until i later read the transcript of the july 25th call. but i was aware of various contacts between the three amigos and his government about this set of issues. >> after you read the call, what did you determine to be the sensitive issues that president zelensky referenced. >> the burisma/biden. >> you testified that ambassador sondland had a one-on-one meeting with yermak top aide of

zelensky, you were prohibited from going into that meeting to take notes. >> yes. >> yesterday, ambassador sondland said he probably discussed the investigations with mr. yermak, did ambassador sondland tell you at all what they discussed? >> he did not. >> after this meeting with mr. yermak, you went to lunch, can you describe where you were sitting at the restaurant in. >> yes, sir. the restaurant has sort of glass doors that open on to a terrace and we were at the first tables on the terrace, immediately outside of the interior of the restaura restaurant. the doors were all wide open. there were -- there was table for four, i recall being two tables being pushed together. the table was set, a table runner down the middle. i was direcy across from ambassador sondland, we were close enough that we could share an appetizer between us and the

two staffers were off to our right at this next table. >> now, you said that at some point ambassador sondland pulled out his cell phone and called president trump. this was an unsecure cell phone, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> in the middle of a restaurant in kiev? >> yes. >> now, you said that you were able to hear president trump's voice through the receiver. how were you able to hear if it wasn't on speaker phone. >> it was several things. it was quite loud when the president came on, quite distinctive. he -- when the president came on, he sort of winced and held the phone held away from his ear like this and he did that for the first couple of exchanges. i don't know if he turned the volume down, if he got used to

it. if the president moderated his voice. >> so you were able to hear some of what president trump said to president zelensky, is that right? >> the first portion of the conversation, yes. >> what did you hear president trump say to -- i'm sorry not president zelensky, ambassador sondland. what did you hear the president say to ambassador sondland? >> he clarify when he was in ukraine. ambassador sondland said, he loves your ass, whatevdo the investigation. >> you heard him ask, is he going to do the investigation? >> yes. >> what was his response. >> oh, yeah, he'll do it. he'll do anything you ask. >> what was the end of the ukraine portion of the conversation? >> yes. >> afterwards, you described a

follow-up conversation that you had with ambassador sondland where you asked him, i think, generally what did president trump think of ukraine, is that right? >> correct. >> what did ambassador sondland to you? >> he said he doesn't really care about ukraine. >> did he use colorful language about that. >> he did. >> he said he cared about big stuff. >> i asked him, what kind of big big stuff, we have big stuff going on here, with a war with russia. no big stuff like the biden investigation that giuliani is pushing. >> now, were you familiar with the biden investigation that he referenced at that point in. >> yes, sir. >> and -- how do you have such a specific and clear recollection of this conversation with the

president and your conversation with ambassador sondland. >> yes, so this was a very distinctive experience. i have never seen anything like this in my foreign service career. at a restaurant, making a call on cell phone to the president of the united states. being able to hear his voice, very distinctive personality. very colorful language was used. they were directly addressing something that i had been wondering about working on for weeks and even months. a topic that had led to the recall of my former boss, former ambassador. so here was a person who said he had direct contact with the president, said that over course of time, here he is having that contact with the president. hearing the president's voice and talking about this issue of the biden investigation that i had been hearing about.

>> so just to summarize during the phone call that you overheard ambassador sondland have with president trump, you heard president trump himself ask, the only question that you really heard him ask, i believe is, whether he was going to do the investigation to which ambassador sondland responded that he would and he would in fact do anything that president zelensky wants, is that a accurate recitation of what happened? >> that's correct. after that call, you had a phone call with ambassador sondland where he told you that the president doesn't care about ukraine, he only cares about big stuff related to himself and particularly the biden investigation that giuliani was pushing in. >> correct. >> now, the day before you lunch with ambassador sondland, president trump did speak with president zelensky as you referred, certainly the president made it clear to

president zelensky that he cared about the biden investigation, now neither of you did listen to this call but as you testified you both read it subsequent to its publication, dr. hill, during your time, 2 1/2 years if the white house, listened to a number of presidential phone calls, is that right in. >> that's right. >> can you estimate approximately how many? >> i can't, actually. sometimes there would be multiple calls during a week. i was there for more than 2 years, so it's fair number. >> have you ever heard a call like this one that you read? >> i don't want to comment on this call because this is in my view executive privilege. in terms of the testimony -- >> i think that as a threshold manner, i think there are issues of classification regard heads of state communication that we do want to be sensitive to. >> understood, i'm just focused

on this one call that has been declassified and published, have you ever heard any presidential phone call along these lines? >> again, i'd like to focus in this testimony on this particular call, i will say i found this particular call subject matter and the way it was conducted surprising. >> you said in your deposition testimony that you were very shocked and very saddened to read it? >> correct. >> why was that. >> because of the nature of the discussion, the juxtaposition of the issues in which they were raised. also, given the fact that i myself had actually on opposed ambassador bolton for some period having a call unless it was prepared and we were confident that the issues that the ukraine and the united states were generally together interested in were being raised. i saw in this call this was not the case. >> you also testified that you

were concerned that this call was turning a white house meeting into some kwiend ind of? >> not speckly about that call. i recall the testimony bocedin . remember, i left on july 19th. the phone call took place the following week. it became very clear that the white house meeting itself was being predicated on other issues, namely investigations and the questions about the election interference in 2016. >> mr. holmes, you ibd kate in your opening state that the chief of staff to president zelensky had indicated to you that in this phone call on july 25th, there was a discussion about personnel issue in relation to the prosecutor general office, after you read the call did you understand who and what that was referring to?

>> yes, sir. in that brief meeting with the chief of staff it was very confusing to me in the only few minutes we had the issue that was raised. until i read the transcript of the call on the 25th i understood that the president had specifically mentioned prosecutor general lutsenko who was in the process of replacing and carving out his underlings who has been collaborating with him on some of the corruption we saw there. >> i believe you also said that lutsenko was the source of some of mr. giuliani's public views and allegations. >> yes, sir. so, about two weeks before the press kind of waved that we saw targeting ambassador yovanovitch became public, an embassy contacted us that lutsenko was send these messages and had met

with an american journalist to get those messages out. >> what was the u.s. embassy in ukraine's view of prosecutor general lutsenko? >> he was not a good partner. he had failed to deliver on the promised reforms that he had committed to when he took office. and he was using his office to insulate and protect political allies while presumably enriching himself. >> another way to describe that corrupt? >> yes. >> i want to take a look at a couple of excerpts of this july 25th call with you, the first one occurs right after president zelensky thanked president trump for the united states' support in the area of defense. president trump immediately then says, i'd like you to do us a favor, though, because our country has been through a lot. i'd like to find out what

happened with this whole situation with ukraine, they say crowdstrike, i guess you have one of your wealthy people, the server, they say ukraine has it. now, dr. hill, is this a reference to this debunked conspiracy theory about ukraine interference in the 2016 election that you discussed in your opening statement. >> the reference to crowdstrike and the server, yes, that's correct. >> and it's your understanding that there's no basis for these allegations, is that correct in. >> that's correct. >> now, isn't it also true that some of president trump's most senior advisers had informed him that this theory of ukraine interference in the 2016 election was false? >> that's correct. >> so, is it your understanding then president trump disregarded theed a viesz of his senior officials about this theory and

instead listened to rudy julian''s view. >> that appears to be the case, yes. >> i also want to show one other exhibit that you were testifying earlier to, dr. hill, about russia's interests in promoting this theory. a february 2nd, 2017, news conference between president putin and prime minister of hungry. when putin said, second, as we all know during the presidential campaign in the united states the ukrainian government adopted a unilateral position in favor of one candidate. more than that, certain oligarchs, certainly with the approval of the political cam leadership, funded this candidate, or female candidate, to be more precise. mr. holmes, you spent three years as well in the u.s. embassy in russia, why would it to be vladimir putin's interest to promote this.

>> to deflect from the allegations of russia interference and second of all, to drive a wedge between the united states and ukraine. thirdly, to besmirch ukraine's leadership from or key partners and elsewhere. >> dr. hill, by promoting this theory of interference in 2016 election, was president trump adopting vladimir putin's view over his own senior advisers and intelligence officials? >> i think we have to be very careful about the way we phrase that. this is a view that putin and many actors in russia have promoted. but i think this view has also got some traction, perhaps in parallel and separately here in the united states and those two things have over time started to fuse together.

>> well, back in may of this year, do you recall that president trump had a phone conversation in early may with president putin? >> i do. >> he also then met in mid-may with prime minister of hungry who joined president putin at this press conference? >> that's correct. >> now that happened in between the time when president zelensky was elected on april 21st, and his inauguration on may 20th, is that right? >> correct. >> and in fact, president -- isn't it true that president trump had asked vice president pence to attend the inauguration after his phone call with president zelensky on april 21st? >> i'm not sure that i can say that president trump had asked the vice president pence. i was not in any meeting in which that took place. i can say i myself and many others at the nsc and the state department, were quite keen and

very eager to have vice president pence to go to ukraine to represent the united states government and the president. >> is that also your recollection, mr. holmes, that he wanted vice president pence to attend. >> yes, sir. we understood that was the plan. >> now, jennifer williams from the office of the vice president testified here that on may 13th, which is the same day that president trump met with prime minister of hungry, that the president called off the vice president pence's trip for unknown reasons but for the inauguration date had been schedule scheduled, dr. hill, were you aware that during that period there was a lot of publicity about rudy giuliani's interests in this investigations in ukraine. >> i was certainly aware, yes.

>> and the around this time, dr. hill, you also, i believe testified that ambassador bolton had expressed some views to you about mr. giuliani's interests in ukraine, do you recall what you said? >> yes. >> what he said to you, rather. >> yes, i do. part of a conversation about the things that mr. giuliani was saying very frequently in public. we saw them often, saw him often on television making these statements. and i had brought to ambassador bolton's attention the attacks, the smear campaign against ambassador yovanovitch and expressed great regret about how this was unfolding and in fact the shameful way in which ambassador yovanovitch was being smeared and attacked. i asked if there was anything we could do about it. ambassador bolton looked pained,

basically indicated with body language that there was nothing we could do about it. he then in the course of that discussion said that rudy giuliani was a hand grenade that was going to blow everyone up. >> did you understand that. >> i did, actually. >> what did he mean? >> obviously, what mr. giuliani was saying was pretty explosive. he was on tv making incendiary remarks about everyone. clearly pushing forward ideas that would come back to haunt us. >> mr. holmes, did the ukrainians understand that rudy giuliani represented the president's views? >> i believe they did. first, he was reaching out to them directly. he also -- ambassador yovanovitch's removal is relevant to this portion of the inquiry, she was removed following this media campaign

when rudy giuliani and his associates were very prominent and criticizing her for not taking seriously the theories and the issues that later came up. when she was removed, commentators in ukraine believed that lutsenko working with giuliani succeeded in getting her removed. they were already aware of mr. giuliani and his influence. the issues that he was promoting and ultimately he was able to get an ambassador removed partly because of that. so he was someone to contend in. in addition immediately after the inauguration, he began reaching out to zelensky administration. key figures in the zelensky administration and continued to do that. >> let's focus on the inauguration for a minute. you escorted, for a lack of a better word, the u.s. delegation around? >> so i joined them in some of their meetings but for not the

entire day. >> who was on the official delegation? >> yes, sir. it was five people. head of delegation was secretary perry. ambassador volker representing the state department. ambassador sondland, our tempora. >> did the delegation have a meeting with president zelensky that you attended? >> yes. >> and you testified i think in your previously that secretary perry gave a list of some sort to president zelensky at that meeting, do you recall that? >> yes. in the meeting with the president, secretary perry as the head of the delegation opened the meeting for the america side. during that period, he handed over a piece of paper, i did not see what was on the paper, but secretary perry described what was on the paper as a list of trusted individuals, recommended that president zelensky could

draw from that list for advice on energy sector reform issues. >> do you know who was on that list? >> i didn't see the list. i don't know. other colleagues -- there are other people who have been in the mix for a while on that set of issues. >> are they americans? >> yes. >> now, do you also recall that colonel vindman spoke to president zelensky in that meeting. >> yes. >> what did he say to president zelensky in terms of some of the issues that we're addressing here in this investigation. >> yes, sir. he was the last to speak. he made a general point about the importance of ukraine. to our national security. and he said that it's very important that the zelensky administration stay out of u.s. domestic politics. >> was it your understanding that president zelensky and the

ukrainians were already feel some pressure to conduct these political investigations? >> yes. >> those were the ones related to biden and burisma and the 2016 election? >> correct. >> now, dr. hill you also testified that around this same time in may you learned that president trump was receiving information from someone else at the national security council, is that right? >> that's not quite right. i was told in passing that someone else at the national security council that the president may want to speak to them because of some materials related to ukraine. >> and did that person indicate that the president thought that was the director of ukraine? >> that's correct. >> very brief conversation. >> who's the director of ukraine? >> director of ukraine is colonel vindman. >> who did this individual in this executive secretary's office refer to. >> the individual just said the name cash.

>> did you know who that was? >> i had to search the mind, the only kash patel. >> he didn't work on those matte matters? >> not on matters i oversaw. >> directly to president without your knowledge? >> that seemed to be the indication. >> i want to go back to the july 25th call right now, where president trump in another excerpt asked president zelensky about his political -- potential political opponent vice president joe biden. in this excerpt, the president said, the other thing there's a lot of talk about biden's son, stop the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that. so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great.

now, dr. hill, this was of course one of the allegations that rudy giuliani was pushing? >> that's correct. >> now confirmed in this july 25th call that the president was also interested in it? >> yes. >> ambassadors volker and sondland have tried to draw a distinction between them the understanding of the connection between burisma and the bidens, but dr. hill, was it apparent to you when president trump, rudy giuliani or anyone else was pushing for an investigation into burisma, the reason they wanted the investigation related to what the president said here. >> it was very apparent to me that burisma linked to bidens. >> mr. holmes, you understood that burisma was code for bidens in. >> yes. >> anyone involved in the ukraine matters would understand that as well? >> yes. >> now, are dr. hill are you

aware of any allegations to support the allegations against vice president biden? >> i'm not, no. >> in fact, mr. former prosecutor general of ukraine, who vice president biden encouraged to fire was actually corrupt, is that right? >> correct. >> was not pursuing corruption investigations and prosecutions, right in. >> my understanding is, the prosecutor general at the time, shokin wasn't pursuing investigations of burisma or the bidens. >> removing that corrupt prosecutor general was part of the united states' anti-corruption policy, is that correct? >> that's correct. not only us, but our allies involved at the time. >> dr. hill you indicated

earlier that you understood that a white house meeting was conditioned on the pursuit by ukraine on these investigations. i want to focus on the july 10th meeting in the white house where that came to light, you indicated that your testimony there was a large meeting that ambassador bolton ran where ambassador sondland, volker, secretary perry also attended, is that right? >> that's correct, yes. >> why they were included in that meeting about national security matters? >> well, the initial intent had not to be to include them. we anticipated that the two ukrainian officials would have a number of meetings. which is the usual procedure. then, there was a request to have ambassadors sondland and volker included coming directly from their offices. as a result of that, clearly given the important role that

secretary perry was playing in the energy sector reform in ukraine and the fact that he had been in the delegation to the presidential inauguration in ukraine, we decided it would better to include all three of them. >> toward the end of the meeting, desire about the white house meeting. >> i listened carefully to ambassador sondland testimony. the meeting had been scheduled for about 45 minutes to an hour. and it was definitely in the wrap-up phrase of the meeting when it occurred. we had gone through a series of discussions.

danyliuk wanted to get into the weaves of how you might reform a national security council. he talked to me prior to the meeting and he was hoping and i had this opportunity with the national securitied a viedzer of the united states to get his first time opinions and thoughts on what might happen. we also wanted to go through discussion about how important it was for ukraine to get the energy sector reform under way and clearly secretary perry had some talking points to this, an issue that ambassador bolton was also interested in. we knew that the ukrainians would have on their agenda their question about a meeting. as we get through the main discussion, going into that wrap-up phrase, danyliuk starts to ask about a white house meeting and ambassador bolton was trying to parry this back. the national security adviser he's not in charge of scheduling the meeting. this goes through a whole process. it's not ambassador bolton to

pull out the schedule and see if this tuesday of this month is going to work with us. he doesn't like to discuss the details of these meetings. he likes to leave them to the appropriate staff for this. this was already going to be an unconfidential issue. as ambassador bolton was trying to deflect it, ambassador sondland leaned in basically to say, well, we have an agreement that there will be a meeting, a specific investigations are put under way. that's when i saw ambassador bolton stiffen. i was sitting behind him in the chair. i saw him sit back slightly like this. he was moving guard. to me that was an unmistakable body language that caught my attention. he looked up to the clock, or his watch, toward his wrist in any case, i was sitting behind

him and said, well, really great to see you. i'm afraid i have another meeting. >> and did ambassador sondland said who his agreement this white house meeting was with in. >> at that particular juncture, i don't believe so. but later, he did say more specifically. >> what did he say later? >> later he had an agreement with chief of staff mulvaney in return for investigations this meeting would get scheduled. >> was he specific at that point later about the investigations that he was referring to? >> he said the investigations and burisma. >> now did you have a conversation with ambassador bolton after this meeting with ambassador sondland. >> i had a discussion with ambassador bolton after the meeting and after the subsequent meeting. >> after both meetings when you spoke to him and relaid to what ambassador sondland said, what did ambassador bolton say to you? >> well, i just want to

highlight first of all that ambassador bolton wanted me to hold back in the room after the meeting. i -- >> that second meeting what did he say. >> he was making a strong point of what was being said. when i came back the and related to them, he had very specific instructions for me. >> what was that. >> specific instruction that i had to go to the lawyers to john eisenberg, our senior counsel, to tell eisenberg that ambassador bolton that i'm not part of this whatever drug deal that mulvaney and sondland are cooking up. >> what did you understand him to mean the drug deal that they were cooking up. >> investigations for a meeting. >> did you go speak to the lawyers? >> i certainly did. >> and you relaid everything

that you just told us -- >> i relaid it precisely. the details of how the meeting had unfolded as well, which i gave a full description of this in my october 14th deposition. >> mr. holmes, you had testified by late august you had a clear impression that the security assistance hold was somehow connected to the investigations that president trump wanted, how did you conclude that -- how did you make that clear conclusion? >> so, we've hearing about the investigations since march. months before. we've been -- president zelensky received a letter, a congratulatory letter from the president following his inauguration in may. and we hadn't been able to get the meeting. then the security hold came up. with no explanation.

i would be surprised if any of the ukrainians, sophisticated people, when they receive no explanation for why that hold was in place they would have drawn the conclusion and because the investigations were still being pursued and the hold was remaining without explanation in. >> correct. >> this was the only logical conclusion you could reach? >> right. >> sort of two plus two equals four. >> correct. >> chairman i yield. >> that concludes the majority questions. we're expected to have votes fairly soon. people before you leave, allow the witnesses to leave first and if committee members could come back promptly after votes. you see the committee's

going to take a break after the questioning from the democratic majority counsel and of course, congressman schiff the chairman of the committee of the two witnesses, david holmes and f fiona hill. mary, it seemed like they were trying to establish with these two witnesses more details on the effort, the pressure campaign and the effort to tie a white house meeting to those investigations the president had been looking for over a long period of time. trying to establish in the questioning. second, these investigations that the president was calling for according to these witnesses didn't have much to do with anti-corruption effort in ukraine. >> reporter: absolutely. what we have heard from holmes and hill reinforces. what we heard from ambassador sondland yesterday. there was this quid pro quo to use a white house meeting, military aid as leverage to force ukraine to launch these investigations.

. george, we have this really astounding moment from fiona hill where she's cautioning the committee to be clear eyed about russia's intentions here. saying, that's exactly what they're doing right here, that cautioning the president and his allies, not to be influenced by russia conspiracy theories. she's saying if you take a step back that's what russia is doing here, they're having some success, the incredibly partisan discourse in this country, this entire process that russia is succeeding in trying to meddle in our democracy. >> terry moran, fiona hill's testimony, a tutorial and a warning about russia. >> reporter: a very good way of putting it. a veteran if the shadow struggle going on for decades between the united states and the kremlin and she comes as a veteran to say it's still going on. you know, one of the basis of

the attacks that vladimir putin's russia has launched against the united states and countries in europe, to begin to undermine people's faith in their own governments and the very possibility of trusting each other as citizens. the disinformation campaign has been perfected by this former kgb colonel and weaponized through digital technology in ways as fiona hill suffered not only in 2016 that we suffer every day. >> pierre thomas, you saw the ranking republican on the committee devin nunes take exception in advance of fiona hill showing the republican's own report on election interference which is at odds of the intelligence community. >> that's right, george. the intelligence community and you saw fiona hill lay it out

again today, they're unambiguous, the russians through an attack tried to influence the 2016 election to help donald trump. period. full stop. she wanted to make clear that this is the ongoing fight. one we'll see in 2020. >> jon karl, as you listen to fiona hill, it was kind of an interesting choice for the president to bring her into the national security council in the first place. >> right. as a critic of vladimir putin, a ha hardliner on russia. george, listening to this and the previous days' testimony, what strikes me you had basically the entire foreign policy and national security apparatus of the trump administration that wanted to see the military aid go to ukraine, that wanted to see the

meeting between the new president of ukraine and president trump at the white house happen. this is something that you heard from the political officer today at the embassy today, from the act i acting actor at the embassy, the envoy to ukraine, the secretary of state. basically, everybody that president trump had put in place to deal with russia and ukraine policy wanted to see this military aid freed up and sent as congress had approved. the one exception to that it appears to me was donald trump. i guess maybe there was a potential second exception which would be rudy giuliani. >> potentially a third, mick mulvaney who carried out the president's direction to freeze the aid. one thing that's striking about david holmes' testimony, the forensic detail. >> he knew the republicans will ask him how he was able to remember in such detail that

phone call, but we pulled the transcript of what he said today. as you said, george, the description was so vivid. he was asked to describe the restaurant. he said glass doors that open up on toer the race. if first tables. actually thought there were two tables put together. all of these were meant to reinforce the fact that he remembered in vivid detail this conversation. he actually mimicked holding the phone away from his ear when president trump was speaking so loudly to ambassador sondland and reiterated what he testified to, president trump after the infamous phone call, is he going to move forward with the investigation? ambassador sondland answered, yes, he is. but this is something that david holmes knows will come his way in questioning this afternoon, how would you be able to remember this? he said, listen, in his long career he has never sat across

from someone having a conversation with the president of the united states on an unsecured phone in an open air restaurant in ukraine on the russia border. >> jon karl brought up the people inside the government working at odds with the president on ukraine policy. a new name came up a member of the national security could be sill who doesn't deal with ukraine, you saw the questioning of fiona hill, the president had asked this person for information. >> someone who's certainly known in washington circles. he was now on the national security council staff. this person is an example as yet of another person involved outside influence, able to gain direct access to the president, as a top policy expert on ukraine. dr. hill testified that he

doesn't have expertise in ukraine. this consumed us in washington for a while at the beginning of the trumped administration as h was working as an aide on the hill. trying to discredit the russia investigation and widely panned and the republicans rallied around it. >> martha, in the question the time line of the concerns about these investigations. they went back to may. daniel goldman brought up a president trump with the hungarian leader where he was propagating this ukraine theory trying to establish a connection with the phone calls with president putin and the decision not to send vice president pence to the inauguration. >> clearly trying to say and imply that the president's language, giuliani's language come directly from vladimir putin's play book. one of the things that holmes emphasized is exactly what putin is up to and why he wants them

out of ukraine. it dives a wedge between the u.s. and ukraine. it erodes support for ukraine. deflects its own interference and that's what russia's trying to do here. the people you heard from are the experts in russia, fiona hill, longtime expert. she knows what she's talking about. she said all of that ukrainian stuff is nonsense and fiction. >> probably the last public hearing, how did it advance the democrats' case broaden the case for impeachment. >> she laid out the case for russian interference. she laid it out very clearly for the american people. this is a threat right now. these impeachment hearings are playing right into the republicans' hands going against what the democrats to know. she land out a case for what this means and why it's

important. the shadow channel that gordon sondland was part of it and it waskietme t what she w trying to wne n in this entire impeachment proceeding and you hear both hill and holmes, who are basically saying he's not totally coming clean, it was actually a little worse than he laid out in his testimony, that's a big point of controversy from both these witnesses. second, just their demeanor. they seem a little more aggressive than we have seen from other witnesses. it seemed almost every other witness didn't want to scuffle. they didn't want to get into the fray. both of these witnesses, maybe i'll be proven wrong seem ready to engage a little bit more. i think we could see some fireworks later. >> we'll come back at noon.

for right now we'll return to our regular programming. joaqui emerging as a strong contender in the oscar's best actor category. >> great performance. his performance is amazing. also music news today, we think this might kick start your heart. you remember that song. also music news today, we think this might kick start your heart. you remember that song. you know who i'm talking about? there you go. >> yeah. >> despite saying they would never do it again motley crue is coming home sweet home to the stage and they won't be alone. the hair metal heavies hitting the road next year along with def leppard and poison for a heavy metal marathon. what a concert. >> hair band right there. >> break out the hair spray, ladies. hello, '80s, i'm coming. motley crue released this

video officially apsi announcin their reunion which was quite a surprise to crue heads and signed an unprecedented cessation of touring contract putting an end to 35 years on the road. nicky six told "rolling stone" the only loophole if all four agree to tour again and said in the interview you know that would never happen. well, you know what they say, never say never. >> yeah. >> those three iconic bands taking on stadiums across the u.s. together in 2020. and finally, on this thankful thursday, we want to you to meet officer thomas andre, a policeman in san diego. he was asked to investigate a stolen car. when he looked in the window he didn't find a perp. instead he found the pup that you see there. an abandoned yellow lab terrified and then so relieved to be freed. he was following protocol. he took him to the local humane society, hoping that the pup's real family would find him, but

he went back and checked on him every week, and after three weeks passed without anyone coming to the little guy's aid andre decide the little guy probably needed to come home with him. the story is extra special because officer thomas had lost myellow lab a fewonths earlier. his dog was his constant companion by his brethren in the force. the officer had vowed he was so heartbroken that he would never get another dog. that is until he found victor. they named him victor because of surviving. we want to say to them we wish you the best of luck. >> oh, such a great story. >> great way to end "pop news." yeah. thank you, lara. now we're going to go and switch gears for our "gma" cover story. we got an exclusive look at the deadly substance that's a problem in too many school districts across the country. asbestos. one teacher from philadelphia is now speaking out as she battles cancer. t.j. holmes had a chance to speak with her and have you that story.

>> reporter: yeah. philadelphia schools are overwhelmed with asbestos. this teacher taught in philly schools for 30 years. she now has a cancer directly linked to asbestos. now we found out about in this summer but she wanted to remain anonymous until now speaking to us now for the first time with a warning to parents. she's touched countless lives her 30 years as a philadelphia public schoolteacher but this summer at just 51, lea had to give up her career. how much does that eat at you to not be in a classroom this year? >> i didn't know it was my last year and i just feel like i didn't get to end it the way i wanted to end it. >> reporter: in august lea a mother of two says she was diagnosed with mesothelioma, an aggressive and deadly cancer of the lungs and abdomen. major health organizations say it's almost always caused by long-term exposure to asbestos. >> i don't have a future anymore.

i planned on spending my golden years with someone that i just married a few years ago and that doesn't look like that is going to happen. i feel like i have tomorrow. that's about it. >> reporter: philadelphia schools have a known asbestos problem. these photos from inside philly schools show what the teachers union's health and welfare found describe as harmful conditions. once considered a miracle material, asbestos was widely used in insulation and soundproofing. experts say covered and undisturbed it's not dangerous but years of wear and tear can cause it to become airborne. breathing and ingesting its needle-like fibers over time can cause a whole host of cancers. government agencies including the epa say there is no safe level of asbestos exposure. the two schools where lea spent her 30 years teaching both have had documented asbestos problems. >> if she was exposed to elevated levels of asbestos in the two buildings in which she taught, it would be a causative

factor in her developing her mesothelioma. >> i was unaware that there even was asbestos present in the school building. i did not know that the steampipes behind me were wrapped in asbestos. and i touched them and i hung clotheslines to hang student work and i used it because i was creating a home for my students. >> when i walk into a school in philadelphia, the conditions are just horrific. >> reporter: in 2018 a pulitzer nominated "philadelphia inquirer" nomination uncovered dangerous asbestos conditions in 7 out of the 11 schools they tested. >> we're not talking about some obscure part like the boiler room. we're talking about highly trafficked areas where kids are running around. >> reporter: after that investigation, reporter wendy ruderman said the district did some cleanup in those seven schools including the two where lea worked. lea knows of no other place where she was exposed to asbestos. what do you tell the teachers still going to those classrooms

every day? >> i'm very concerned. if i make a classroom safe for my students, i expect the school district to make all classrooms safe for students and staff. >> this is the kind of condition that can lead to exposure. >> reporter: environmental scientist jerry roseman was called in by the district and teachers union to investigate complaints in philly schools. >> i'm often seeing damaged exposed and available asbestos that are in areas where there are children and staff. i have kind of a searing image in my mind of a child who has his arm around an asbestos covered pipe in a gym and he's sucking his thumb. that's a problem. >> reporter: he says oftentimes he sees exposed asbestos that's been present for months, even years. >> it's not right. it really is not right. asbestos is probably our most catastrophic hazard. if you get sick from an asbestos exposure, you're very sick. the only good news is that in these situations for people not in direct contact the level of risk is small. >> reporter: we spoke with

some worried public school parents who have faced some tough decisions. >> it's like dante's inferno. every day you're making this horrible decision over and over. >> i trust that when my kid goes to school he's going to be safe. this is the worst thing that could happen to -- that's happened to me, because -- i'm sorry. >> reporter: charmaine mitchell pulled her son out of a local elementary school in november. >> my frustration came in when i realized all this time he has white stuff on his pants. >> talk to the parents of philadelphia right now you. >> need to speak up for your child and make sure every day they go to a safe space and that every child in every school, not just the affluent ones, are worth it. >> reporter: the philadelphia school district tells abc news the district realizes that it has a serious challenge with asbestos in our more than 200 school buildings. our goal is to have the most effective response and to

eventually remove as much asbestos from our schools as possible but for lea, cleanup may have come years and years too late. she started the process of suing the school district and she vows to fight. both now for her life and for the schools. if you get the opportunity, would you go back to teaching in a philadelphia school? >> i don't know. i don't know if i would feel comfortable knowing that i'm going to a place where someone didn't tell me that there was a toxic substance and that it was in my midst two feet from my head every day all day. >> the philadelphia school district did just this week announce an accelerated cleanup plan.is point she really wants. >> how is she doing now? >> she's scared. i mean she has a surgery coming up in december. she doesn't how much longer she has. she's in constant pain. she has two kids. son was there saying, you know

what, these day, teenage son, i talk to my mom thinking about my older self and asked how much a wedding ring costs. i don't know if i can ask that later. that physical pain but emotional, the school district hasn't reached out to her. not to say our fault or our bad but just to send a flower or say how are you doing? that stuff hurts after 30 years in a place so she's going through a difficult -- now there's a chance she could lose her health insurance. all right. so it's just -- >> we good to follow up. >> there is a gofundme page. that's one thing but still she's got this constant worry and constant pain. it's just -- it was very difficult. >> t.j., so glad you went there. >> it's very difficult to talk to her. >> thank you so much for that, t.j. now we go over to rob. >> i want to show you something that i've never seen before. this is the time of year where animals and some people for that matter go into hibernation. your "gma" moment takes you to the denver zoo where this 17-year-old grizzly bear, tundra, a female is backing herself into a seven-foot hole she dug herself.

that would make a nice little pillow and nuzzle back in there for a long winter's nap. i don't know about you guys but that sounds pretty good to me right now. all right. it's time for a look at your all right. now to the hottest new way to holiday shop and even get some cash back. our resident tech expert becky worley. >> becky's back. >> becky's back.

black friday is a week away now. what do you got for us? >> well, we want to start with some apps that will help you save money. the first one is rakuten. >> i'm glad you said it because i can't say this one. >> it's a japanese company. you'll see this company. it comes back in search results when you are on google shopping. it is aate marketplace, but where you can really save the most is if you shop through the app. they bought ebates, and everything you buy, you get a little bit back. i have $15.25 coming back to me from my shopping. they'll pay me in paypal or a check. >> you like slick deals. what is that about? >> this is a crowd sourced deal a gre aggregator meaning that members vote on what's a good deal, so $39.99, ukulele at amazon. >> anybody needs one. >> 28 thumbs up. come on.

they also have editors who will pick the very best deals so, for example, this juice pack, 14 bucks, used to be 99. and this tv is marked down a thousand bucks. so -- >> that's amazing. you said there's a lot of ways -- these are great tips. we've got more tips. a lot of ways to price shop, compare prices. >> one i like is called wikibuy. this is a browser extension meaning it is a tiny program you download into your chrome browser on your laptop. what it does is compares prices all across the web and it takes into consideration this vacuum cleaner, all right, it's 520 bucks, well you can get it for 40 bucks cheaper someplace else. >> even figured out amazon prime members. got black friday ready, my friend. we'll right back. got black friday ready, my friend. we'll right back.

good morning, north bay. let's get up and get going. this is "abc7 mornings." >> good morning. it is 8:27 and i'm reggie aqui from "abc7 mornings." san francisco is a hot bed for the technology with the scooters and the irobots, but the county board of supervisors want to create an office of emerging technology. new tech would get approval from that office before they are allowed on the street. the supervisors are going to vote on that measure in about three weeks. traffic now with jobina. >> thank you, reggie. looking at the bay bridge, and that is because there is a crash between a taxi cab and another car just as you are approaching the lower deck, but as you can see, it is moving once you get on the bridge. quickly over to san lorenzo, where we are following the issue that was supposed to be cleared up at 8:00, and southbound

that is shutdown near hesperian

now, your accuweather forecast with mike nicco. >> good morning. off to the cooler start and look at danville, and 34 and same in santa rosa and san francisco is 49, and san jose. all right. here is a look at the commute planner, and you can see that we will have breezy bridge, but that is tapering as we head deeper into the forecast.

a look at that and 70s by sunday. >>hankyou, mikement ano go, go big or go home ♪ ano ♪ go big or go home >> good. really good in here. welcome back, everybody. it is time to mvp your meal. we are teaming up with all-star chefs to bring you the ultimate tailgate food and tackling the food that's so popular it has its own international society and official appreciation society. >> which we are both members. >> because we are 25uking about chili. right. [ applause ] >> thank you. great chefs are braying their "a" game, ryan scott with michael. pat tin j marcus samuelsson. >> you're going down. >> audience members at our tasting table with r

let's get right to it. >> all right. ryan, here we go. tell us what we're making and i know this kind of has a corny name to r birthday i guess. happy birthday chili with everything in here. this is my -- this is almost my frito pie beef chili loaded with everything from avocado, sour cream, cheese, jalapenos, you name it. get over there. in here we've got ground beef with spices and what's cool about this, everything could come from a can, canned corn goes inside here. canned black beans goes inside. we've got diced menners that you can buy down at the store, onions can also be done and because we're not kissing anybody today we got garlic in there. a little bit of jalapenos and here's the thing, michael, you always want to toast your spice, chili powder goes in, marcus, you smell it. it's called defeat. we're winning. >> a little bit of chili, salt and pepper and chilies go in

the cool thing about it, put a lid on top of it after you add canned co-mate tos. anybody can make this dh. crhe, the way we finish it -- >> i love the way you say it's frito pie style. >> bake it in the oven for three hours if you want, you put it inside your favorite chips. rob, what do you think, robbie? huh? [ applause ] >> good, buddy. it's delicious. >> then you build it any way you want. if you want cilantro on top. you can go like that and add a little. >> bam. >> it's done and it's in a little bag. two big dudes and a cute little bag. >> right. i love it. thank you for the birthday chili, man. i appreciate it. lara, you're up. >> pati's kicking it up a notch. tell us a little about yours. tex-mex and emphasis on the mex. >> it's a w o me

cute little bag and cute little >> yes, we have, we have chunks of beef and we also have ground pork. so you have the bite of the meat and then you have the texture of the ground pork. >> this is for real here. and then we have onion, we have bell peppers and then the crazy thing, the amazing thing is we're going to play with different kinds of chili peppers. we have fresh jalapeno in there then you'll add chipotle sauce. >> a lot of kick. >> rustic, sweet and then we'll add everything you see here, it's in judicious amounts. we have cayenne pepper, red pepper flakes, paprika, we have ground chipotle. we have oregano, cumin, salt. >> i got you. >> and everything in here. it's like a -- ? stir it in, everything but the kitchen sink. >> the amazing thing we're

cooking all of the spites in the fat of the meat so that the flavors will glue. we're not throwing everything together like someone there and then add some beef stock. >> we're over here eating. it's so delicious we can't even hear y layering. >> we're adding tomatoes. we're adding some vinegar and pinto beans. >> sophisticated chili. >> this is a heavy tex-mex then you cook it for an hour and -- >> unlike three hours this is only an hour. >> exactly. >> and then you -- >> i love this. you pick your favorite team and you put it in a little mug. >> but look how hearty, nutritious, filling and the flavor. >> yeah. let's check with rob and our tasters. what do you guys think? >> amazing. >> delicious. >> plus the accent and the health factor. >> health factor.

did you say health factor? >> we'll throw it over to marcus and cecilia. >> all right. you guys, best for last, right, marcus. >> i think that's cute. thank you very much for sending out the first quarter and second quarter. very cute but you guys -- >> yeah. >> this is the fourth quarter chili. >> emphasis on down to strong defense. my friend j.t. told me that and stra used to be my defense before he changed teams over there. the other part, chili with big strong flavors in a tiny bag? that makes no sense. no sense. >> big bowls. how do you do it. >> about big and bold. onions, garlic, chilies. this is going to be so delicious. meat. we'll cook it for a couple of about brisket, big red . stuff, big defensive stuff. and then don't come over here

with that tiny little bag. don't come over here with that tiny little bag because this is a big bold flavor. >> this is delicious. >> yes. all about ethiopian spices. berbere. i don't know what happened. but then -- >> retirement getting to you. >> all about flavors. we got avocado, this is all about spices. >> oh, that's delicious. >> do you taste that? >> this tastes so good i'm going to give it to these guys over here. [ applause ] i'm feeding over here. come over here. right? >> i don't know. >> the guys with the little bags. >> trash-talking. >> all of it on "good morning america." >> flow a flag on him. >> all of our chef, get all these recipes on our website, guys.

coming up, fans.

♪ a lot for christmas welcome back to "gma." "all i want for christmas is you," mariah carey's holiday anthem turns 25 years this year and to celebrate, the anniversary the superstar gave us an early present.

footage from one of her first performances of the song, take a look. when mariah carey penned "all i want for christmas is you" 25 years ago -- ♪ i don't want a lot for christmas ♪ >> reporter: she unknowingly crafted one of the biggest songs in music history. ringing in the start of the holiday season ever since. >> you know i started early this year. >> reporter: this year mariah is giving fans everywhere a reason to celebrate. >> christmas starts now. >> reporter: after releasing new festive moments from the making of the music video and for the first time ever -- ♪ baby all i want for christmas ♪ >> reporter: sharing one of her first live performances of the song. ♪ you >> when i made the record, i was trying to make a classic sounding record. i wanted it to be timeless. >> reporter: and timeless it is.

since debuting back in 1994, the tune inspiring countless covers. ♪ what more can i do ♪ baby all i want for christmas is you ♪ ♪ is you >> reporter: even making its way into popular holiday movies like "love actually." ♪ all i want for christmas >> reporter: a song that only took an hour to write. ♪ is you >> reporter: may this holiday classic reign supreme for another 25 years. [ applause ] unbelievable she wrote that in one hour and music experts have said in the past the song endures after all these years due to its throw back sound gives everyone no stage ya and keeping you guessing at exactly what she wants at the beginning of the song but the biggest reason the song is just that good. it's just that good. rob, you are he just that good.

>> it is that good. it is a big morning in the windy city wit me lht festival. a huge holiday celebration down michigan avenue. mickey and minnie mouse are there this morning. so is my friend from wlas. greg, you're looking good out there, buddy. >> good morning.aven. magnificent mile and there's going to be a million lights lit up along this. there are three very big parades in the u.s., you know the macy's thanksgiving day parade, you know the rose bowl parade. this is number three. a million lights. it is absolutely beautiful. we got some video. you can see how awesome it is but, again, there are a million lights in the whole thing. somebody has got to check all the lights. i've got minnie mouse and mickey mouse here. they've gone through all the lights. guy, are all the lights okay? they're good? we're all good to go here on saturday. it's going to be an absolute fantastic display and they've

got an in with santa claus and i hear rob and the whole team, you guys are on the nice list this year. >> oh, my goodness. they sold them a bill of goods there. mickey and minnie, i hope onen' stay dry. [ applause ] >> before you know it that rain will be snow as the sleigh bells ring. cecilia, lara, over to you. >> we got an inspiring story right now from robin's digital series thriver thursday in a two-part season finale. two women sharing their struggles with infertility. >> she wanted to encourage african-american women to talk

about what they experience and created an organization to help couples dealing with infertility. >> in this country 7. million struggle with infertility and black women and couples are experiencing infertility at two types the rate as our caucasian brothers and sisters. when i was on my journey of infertility, i wanted to be able to talk to other women that looked like me who i felt would understand what i was going through. >> i want women and men to know they are not alone. we are here to walk by your side, to listen to you and to support you and to also provide you the resources that you need to walk this journey. i want to be able to help people live their lives abundantly. when i get a call or get a text from somebody telling me, you know, i'm finally pregnant, i'm filled with so much joy. >> you got some news for me? >> i do. i do. i heard from the doctor today

and my test was positive. >> whoo! yes! >> i've seen so many women who have, you know, who hurt so much. when they finally become parents and i'm able to see that joy and experience that joy with them, it's absolutely humbling for us to be able to experience the life of all these miracle babies that we have seen. it's a beautiful -- it's a beautiful thing. [ applause ] >> everybody, please give it up for reverend stacy right here in our audience. we're so thankful for you for sharing your story and your beautiful family with us. some other people from your organization are also with us. if you want to learn more about these amazing women and see the two-part thriver thursday season finale, please head to robin's facebook page. >> definitely. thank you so much.

again. michael, sara and keke, what's coming up this afternoon? >> what's coming up? >> well, although keke and i look like valentine's day, the holiday is michael's birthday. >> oh, yes. friends are stopping by to give birthday love. who is it going to be. >> i don't know. >> i guess you'll find out. >> nick lachey and debbie gibson have a special birthday performance. >> they are's going to sing for me. >> no. >> we didn't say that. >> but they'll be on the couch. >> i wish i never told you it was my birthday. check us out at lunchtime and get ready to have some fun when you do and next on "gma," we have ways to entertain your toddler with stuff you have laying around the house. >> ready. >> yeah, you need this, stuff lying around the house for your toddlers. you know when you're at just keeps getting better?ook check this out! that's yes for less.

score a head-to-toe look you'll love and save 20 to 60 percent off department store prices. at ross. yes for less. so that early retirement we planned. it's going ok? great. now i'm spending more time with the kids. i'm introducing them to crab. crab!? they love it. so, you mentioned that that money we set aside. yeah. the kids and i want to build our own crab shack. ♪ ♪ ahhh, you're finally building that outdoor kitchen. yup - with room for the whole gang. ♪ ♪ see how investing with a j.p. morgan advisor can help you. visit your local chase branch.

and you find a deal on cookware that makes you say. you know when you're at ross yes! ...oh, yeah! bring on the holidays! that's yes for less. everything you need to prep, cook and serve up the season. it feels even better when you find it for less-at ross. yes for less. we are back now with our insta parents series and this morning we're showing you how to keep kids bus and entertained with stuff lying around the

house. the creator of busy toddler will join us in a moment but first abbie boudreau is in los angeles with all she's learne hey, abbie, how are you doing? >> i'm great. good morning, michael. if you're looking for simple and fun ways to keep your toddlers busy we have your answer and most of these ideas cost $5 or less. the two words that can stop any parent in their tracks. >> i'm bored. >> we've all been there. >> i'm not loving this attitude. you seem a little mean. >> reporter: meet susie allison, the mom who created busy toddler where nearly 600,000 turn to get tips to entertaining kids with stuff everyone has laying around. >> i love how simple and basic. >> that's what i'm going for. >> yet so effective. >> so effective. i think there's this big mystery and this big misunderstanding that activities for kids need to be fancy and need to be expensive and elaborate and that's not the case. they don't need fancy. they just need engaging fun play

and we can do that so cheap. we can do it using the things in our house and don't need to buy a bunch. things. we have the tools. >> the former teacher's instagram account filled with fun ideas and simple how tos that will keep kids busy for hours. to test out just how easy the projects are, we're sending her into the toddler den. >> come on in. come play. >> one of her most used items a storage container that can be used in so many ways. like this one filled with cups and pitchers. that helps kids learn how to pour. >> you did it. >> or this one that keeps kids busy by having them wash their toys. >> we now know lila likes to clean stuff so get baby dolls in here and dinosaurs and set it up again and again. >> and measuring cups and rice transform in a sensory bin that seems to hypnotize the kid. >> what i'm noticing it's kind of quiet. >> so quiet. >> with the kids occupied the parents have a cancer to sit back and relax.

>> this is great. they've been quiet and engaged in whole time. >> saw the bin set up and just zeroed in on the activity. >> any time our kids are playing by themselves even if it's just for like pour minutes we stop and hold hands. >> i feel like there's so much pressure on kid, especially moms and it's like you have to have all these crafts ready. you have to keep the children constantly engaged. i mean there's a lot of pressure. >> the truth is, we're all struggling and what i want to show parents is you can use these activities as a tool. it's a wonderful thing. >> and susie has so many more tips on her instagram page and blog. fun, affordable and educational activities perfect to try with your kids over thanksgiving break, michael. >> yes, something we all need. we're joined by susie allison, the creator of busy toddler. >> thank you. >> as you see this is one of the most ambitious segments we've ever done with so many kids. you can see they're having a blast painting trucks and dinosaurs. and they're also playing with

rainbow -- >> and bins. >> how do you make rainbow rice? >> super easy. i'll show you how to make this. so to make rainbow rice you'll put a cup of rice into a bag. and then you're just going to pour in a little bit of vinegar, a tablespoon. what color? >> green. >> we'll put in a ton of food coloring. the limit does not exist on food coloring, put it together and you're going to want to hold it tight and smoosh, smoosh, smoosh. >> oh, wow. >> see, it's turning rainbow. so we repeat this process over and over again until we get enough colors and pour it out onto the baking tray. we don't have enough time to wait the 30 minutes for this to dry but once it dry, the coolest part the color will stay on the rice, nothing is going to get on little hands and it's fabulous. kids love it. >> kids are clean and the rice is still the same color. >> they're having a great time.

>> but why are these bins so important. >> sensory bins are important for every reason. if you can name every reason for children, this is dramatic play. this is imaginative play, independent play. look at how independent these kids are being right now but they're also learning math skills and learning about capacity, estimating life skills, literally everything under the sun. they're learning from a sensory bin. >> learning from the sensory bin and from your tips. you can get more of allison's tips on our website. we'll we'll be right back. [ applause ]

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"good morning america" is sponsored by shutterfly. anything flies with shutterfly. ♪ go big >> thank you for watching, everybody. happy birthday, michael. >> love you. have a wonderful day, everybody. [ applause ] get in there, michael. you want cake? ♪ go big or go home [ applause ]

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good morning, bay area. let's get up and get going. >> this is "abc7 mornings." and good morning. it is 8:59 and i'm reggie aqui and here is mike nicco with a look ahead. >> hi, everybody. looking at the golden gate bridge and it is fog-free and the winds are slowing down and the fire danger is over. it is going to be a little bit breezy, but that is ogoing to calm down no matter where you r. 61 to 65 is the spread, and warmer weather around santa rosa at 68. looking at the highs of 50 and chances of rain next week. hello, everyone. i'm headed back to san lorenzo for an issue we have been following since 33:00 this morning. a crash between a car and big rig at hisperion and caltrans is there to pick up the spill that exct l over e ramp tre reie? >> andpealews ohe

impeachment coveragesahead, and more coverage on the >> announcer: it's "live with kelly and ryan." today, we catch up with kit harington, plus actress and comedian niecy nash, and from "riverdale," charles melton. also a performance from passenger, all next on "live." ♪ >> announcer: and now, here are kelly ripa and ryan seacrest. ♪ >> ryan: all right. [cheers and applause] hey! >> kelly: hi! >> ryan: good morning! [upbeat music] [cheers and applause] clear a path. clear a path. ♪ good morning. [cheers and applause]