think that's a good idea. i'm david. >> i'm amy. >> and this is "20/20." >> i still have a sense of disbelief that this man that i loved could go out and do such horrific things. >> and the man she loved was none other than ted bundy, the >> tonight we are looking through the eyes of the women he loved, not just the women he killed. >> here at florida state prison with mr. ted bundy. you have been involved in how many homicides? >> we came up with 30. >> could have been well over 100 but we'll never know that. >> now decades later, the mother and daughter who shared his life, who lived to tell about it are speaking on tv with the new book and a new amazon prime series for the very first time.

>> i knew him so well. >> yeah. and she loved him so much. everything had been so good so this was just crazy. >> it would be the last person to think would be a serial killer. >> the ladies loved him. >> could have dated anybody. >> i felt confident that we were not gong to be killed. >> just gave me chills to hear you say that. you were pretty confident that you wouldn't be killed. >> pretty confident. you know? >> you know he referred to the women in his volkswagen as cargo. pretty hard to explain why you drive around with an ice pick and a panty hose mask. >> how could he have possibly explained that away to you? >> almost a taunting quality, like catch me if you can. >> complete remorseless. evil. ♪ >> so thank you for sitting down with us. i know that over the years there have been a lot of ted bundy

stories. this is your story. >> right. >> you saved all of those photos of your time with ted as a family. why did you save them? >> it's a strange phenomenon. it's, like, i sometimes can't believe this has really been my life. i kept those photos of us when we were happier before we knew what he was capable of. >> the photos are joyful, much like most people's family photos. they don't look any different. >> that's my childhood, you know? unfortunately, the memories that are attached to those pictures have lost their original emotional content. and become something different. >> i still have a sense of disbelief that this man that i loved and that was -- seemed to be such a great guy could go out and do such horrific things. it's just so hard to accept. >> liz, i'm sure you've asked

yourself, "why not me?" >> completely. and i hate to even say this because it makes him sound normal, but i do think he loved us. >> i heard a story told by one of his attorneys. he said ted told him that he would play games with mice and he would let some of that live and make some of them die. to me, that's us. we're just these mice. that were allowed to live. >> there isn't anybody who grew up here that is of a certain age that doesn't have a ted bundy story. his presence here is huge. >> it's such an amazing story that touches on so many things. >> it is part of the history of the pacific northwest.

it's part of the history of criminal justice in the united states. it's a story worth telling. >> who was this young man in the pacific northwest? >> he knew how to flatter people. he knew how to win their trust. >> he was good looking and charming and seemingly had the world with his grasp and was going to be a successful guy. >> there were two bundys. the only people that ever saw the diabolical bundy were his victims. >> i never wanted to think people were born evil. but my opinion about that changed when i met ted. i think he was just born evil. >> seattle was a smaller, more innocent place back then. >> it was a time when many women were feeling very independent so people didn't think right away

that a woman who hadn't been seen for a few days might have fallen into harm's way. >> when you look at ted bundy, he was about the right age to be in college. he drove a volkswagen beetle, very popular car in the '70s. so when he would move into a college campus, he just fit right in. >> he graduated in june of '72 from the university of washington with a degree in psychology. >> why does he get a degree in psychology? from my view he does that to be able to continue to manipulate people. >> one of his activities was to be involved in political campaigns. >> governor dan evans brought down to the aisle and given a tumultuous welcome. >> worked for the committee to re-elect dan evans. he add had aspirations. wanted to go to law school. he was thought to be sort of a rising star in the republican party in washington state. >> i think a number of things conspired to make ted bundy, ted bundy.

>> when you look at the childhood of serial killers, there are some common themes and i see them in ted's case, where there's dysfunction in the family. and what happens is they grow up with a lot of rage, typically atoney and he wasn't. >> this is a guy who, from the earliest age, was a petty thief. >> tell me when you first realized he was stealing things. >> he stole a pair of ski boots from the student union building on the university of washington campus. and he brought them over to my apartment and he said, "if i hadn't of stolen them, somebody else would've, so i just took them." >> he talks about having been a peeping tom at some point. >> the idea that ted bundy was involved in peeping actually makes sense because it's basically a training ground about how you isolate people, how you watch people, how you get into houses.

>> he was a night person. he would get restless. get in his car and drive for great distances. so he was a roamer always. >> but a part of him longed to be with somebody, or a part of something, a part of a family. you know, he had this long-time girlfriend who had a child. >> i want to go back to when you first arrived in seattle. you were a single mom. you went out to that bar that and you saw a handsome man. tell me about when you first met ted bundy. >> well, i was pretty smitten right from the get go. i saw him sitting at the table. i went over and talked to him because i told him he looked lonely. i took him home with me that night, which i wasn't in the habit of doing. >> that out of character for you? >> yes. >> she was a young, reasonably naive woman. single mother from utah who met the man who was considered by virtually everybody in society

and culture in the 1970s as the dream date, the perfect husband material, a prince charming. >> is it fair to say at least at first that ted bundy was a gentleman? >> oh, completely. put a lot of energy into making us happy, doing fun things. my parents loved him. he was just really it, in my opinion, and i really wanted to marry him. >> give me some of the activities that you all would do as a family together. >> he had a favorite everything. a favorite restaurant, a favorite carpet store. i mean, it was just -- so he wanted to take us to all the places that he caught were cool. went to the zoo, went to all the fun kids things. he always seemed to embrace us as a family unit. >> when he was with liz, he said he really enjoyed being a family man. he said the things that, you know, i would expect my brother to say about his family. >> but as the years rolled on,

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you've written about how things did actually get disturbing. but at the time, the age you were at, it was mostly just confusing? >> yeah. it was confusing. >> and you didn't tell your mom? >> no. he had become naked during the course of a game of hide and go seek. and i was very confused by that. >> you said his eyes changed? >> his eyes changed. >> and i got a real sense of direction at that moment, of looking into his eyes with him there, naked, that this was extremely dangerous and bad. >> can you describe to me what your relationship was like in 1974? >> well, it had changed. you know, we got together in the fall of '69. so we'd been together several years. and things changed that he would start walking home late at night, rather than spending the night at my house. just subtle changes where i felt like maybe i was losing him.

>> you thought maybe, worst-case scenario, he's seeing someone else? >> yes. never in my dreams did i think he was out stalking women and then eventually abducting and murdering women. >> lynda ann healy was a very popular young woman because she was on the radio five days a week at 7:00 in the morning. she gave the ski report. >> in all my years of studying murder, i never heard of an abduction quite like the lynda ann healy abduction. >> i was one of many people who listened to her in the morning. and i realized, the day that she wasn't on the air, that there was something unusual. >> she never showed up for work. bundy used to frequent a bar dante's tavern. on the last night of her life, linda ann healy went to dante's with a girlfriend. bundy probably did follow them home and waited.

and he checked the front door, and it was unlocked. this is what makes this abduction so incredibly surreal. he goes down in the basement, enters healy's room. he's aware that there's another bedroom on the other side. he would tell a writer later that he choked her. he moves her off the bed, he takes her nighty off of her, hangs it up in the closet. he makes the bed. almost like in a military fashion. and he carries her down into the night. he takes her down the front steps, and they're steep steps, to wherever his car is parked and puts her in there. >> he would turn the passenger seat around so it was flat. and i asked him why that once, and he said, well, 'cause that's the way he put his cargo in the car. how's that for disgusting? >> once he got girls to the

destination, he raped them, he bludgeoned them, he molested their bodies. >> from there the nightmare began. then donna manson. she disappeared from evergreen state college. and then you have the abduction of susan rancourt from central washington. >> susan rancourt in ellensburg was on her way to a meeting to see about being a dorm counselor. >> in may of 1974, roberta kathleen parks went missing. and in those days, it was reported just as a missing student. >> and these young women started disappearing and people wondered, what's going on here? >> brenda ball was abducted near the flame tavern. she wasn't a college student. that made it all the more challenging because it adds to the randomness of the victims.

>> he took his victims from where he could fit in. i mean, he fit in great. >> this is the psychological factor. you don't think a killer of women is going to be a good looking, articulate young man. you're not thinking in terms like that. >> georgeann hawkins was a student at the university of washington. georgeann was abducted in june of 1974. >> she disappeared from an alley one night behind greek row. being a university district people are walking around at all hours. she went down the alley. there was bundy. >> i was moving up the alley using a briefcase and some crutches and the young woman walked down. i saw her around the north end of the block into the alley and stop for a moment and then keep on walking down the alletoward me.

about halfway down the block i asked her to help me carry the briefcase and she did and we walked back up the alley. >> does he look like a killer? nah. does he look like an abductor of women? no. he looks like somebody in need. he's got like a leg cast on, he's on his crutches. >> i went to his room one night. he had crutches leaning against the wall by the door to his room. and i ask him what it was for and he said that his landlord had hurt himself and was on crutches but he was going to take the crutches back to the rental place so that made sense to me. >> so they weren't his, according to him? >> right. >> he had placed a crowbar behind the right rear tire. >> basically when i reached the car what happened was when i reached the car i knocked her unconscious with the crowbar. >> he hit her with such force that she came out of one of her shoes and both her earrings flew off. >> there were some handcuffs

there along with the crowbar and i handcuffed her and put her in the passenger side of the car and drove away. >> he would drive to a spot he has already picked out, going to be off of a main highway. sometimes he would even check the moon so it would be bright so i don't have to leave the headlights on to see what i was doing. >> and the speed with which she had to have been abducted tells you that probably the person had done this before. we really could not find anything definitive that tied all the victims together. >> the long and short of it was i again knocked her unconscious and strangled her. >> ted loved nighttime because he could be out but not be seen but then there's the day he took two girls in broad daylight. >> those abductions would come back to bite bundy on the very simple reason is people saw him.

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a wave of fear swept all across the state of washington. >> hawkins last seen monday evening. >> when someone was abducting young women. >> it is hard to say if there's any foul play or not. >> there's incredible pressure on law enforcement to find the person who was responsible for causing these women to go missing. >> thank you very much for calling. >> anything? >> what cleverness or what sophistication of the suspect are you looking for that can manage to pull that off? >> there were no clues whatsoever. i mean, it is kind of remarkable nobody saw anything but lake

sammamish was another story. >> it was huge, a magnet for us young and old. >> like a play to go to in the midwest with the old-fashioned concession stand and people coming out with a sailboat or coming out to sun. >> july 14th, 1974. the place was packed. there were 40,000 people there. >> i saw him that morning. he came over. we weren't getting along real well so i was surprised he came in and wanted to know what i was going to do that day. he asked me which park and i think he was wanting to know he wouldn't be going that way, go to another park. >> a number of people that day were taking photos and shooting film. little did they know the police would want to review this footage.

>> ted was able to meld into the crowd. he was wearing casual beach-type clothing. he was able to strike up conversations with people. he was able to convince denise naslund and janice ott to help him with the ruse that he had a sailboat, that he had his arm in a fake sling. >> if anybody has seen "silence of the lambs" where the killer had that trying to get that couch into the van and he's got a cast on -- that all came from ted bundy. >> geez. >> can i help you with that? >> would you? >> sure.

>> bundy was a real schemer. >> remember that these abductions were benign on the face of them. they were always bundy approaching the women in a state of presumed need or weakness. can you help me carry my books? my arm's in a sling. can you help me load my sailboat on to my car? >> three women saw janice ott saw her roll her bicycle up to the beach and lay it down and she had on a yellow bikini. and then, they observed this man walk up to her. and they heard her get up and say, hi, i'm jan. and he said, i'm ted. he gave his real name.

she was last seen headed toward the parking lot pushing her bike with him walking next to her. and then she's never seen again. we did have about five or six other women come forward that said that they had been approached by the guy with his arm in a sling. and they looked just like janice ott and denise naslund. >> first janice went missing and that was earlier in the morning. she disappeared and then later he came back to the park. >> mccartney and wings. kjrc in seattle at 4:09. >> it was a sunday afternoon and my buddy and i, we noticed off to the side just a few feet from us in front of the women's bathroom and but the

oddest thing about it is he had a cast on his arm. >> being a couple of smart alec teenagers we were thinking of razzing the guy a little bit, but it turned out it was our turn to get ice cream and we lost track of the guy, didn't think anything more about it. >> and that's when denise naslund was abducted. those abductions were very brazen and in front of literally thousands of witnesses. but the witnesses did not know what they were seeing. >> with regard to denise naslund her car's in the parking lot. her purse is still there. her keys to her car are still there. but she's not. she's gone. >> who does that? wasn't satiated with just one. i think he was trying to make a statement that day. >> it was almost theatrical as two women disappeared. it was as if the stakes had been

raised in this dramatic way. >> obviously it's not until much later that you're able to go back and piece together those abductions and those murders with what you were actually doing with ted at the time. you went out together shortly thereafter? >> he called right -- it was pretty early in the evening. i want to say 5:30 but right after the women -- the second woman went missing. >> did he sound any different? >> no, not at all. >> as if nothing had happened? >> right. we went out to eat. just -- so hard to believe that that's what he was doing. >> it's heartbreaking. >> it was also critical that people who were at the park that day who were taking photographs of their friends and family, filming they had done turned over the photographs and film to us to see if we could find anything that would be a clue.

>> the lake abductions would come back to bite bundy. people saw him and he identified himself as ted. >> there's a ted and he drives a volkswagen. and he's handsome. >> and from the witnesses that saw him were composite drawings made. >> when the picture came out, no question in our minds. no question. that this was the guy. >> each lead has to be followed, every phone call has to be made. most lead nowhere. some pan out with a speck of information to clear up the whereabouts of janice ott and denise naslund. ott and denise naslund. but not here. this is capital one. where banking moves at the speed of right now. you can open a new savings account in about 5 minutes and earn five times the national average.

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19-year-old denise naslund and 23-year-old janice ott 19-year-old denise naslund and 23-year-old janice ott disappear on a warm summer day at lake sammamish. several witnesses told of a smooth-talking, good-looking young man named ted. >> heat was starting to come upon him. there were clues now. a guy named ted, a vw, a composite sketch. >> your coworkers brought over the sketch to show to you? was it because they thought the sketch looked like ted? >> yes. there was something about it that just grabbed my attention. there was just something about the jawline or something like that that made me think, "wow, this is really weird." >> you called seattle police. >> yeah. i called anonymously to a tip

line that they had set up. >> there was something like 3,000 potential teds who may or may not drive a volkswagen and he was one of them. but he had this terrific, spotless clean record. >> you have to understand that detective work was organized in a very different way in the '70s. there was no dna evidence. police departments didn't even have fax machines let alone the internet. >> when they had a profile of him i brought up the similarities to him. i said this guy's name's ted. your name is ted. this guy has a vw. you drive a vw. you know it's you. he just laughed. no, monkey. of course not. i would never do anything like that. >> you didn't think it either? >> no. >> you were teasing him? >> i was teasing him. >> did you ever ask ted, are you concerned about the similarities? >> in the very beginning i asked him, i said, did you read this? do you know what they're saying? there are so many things here

that people are going to be looking at you. kind of making a joke out of it. but once i started to worry, like, could this be true, i didn't feel safe bringing it up. i didn't want him to know what i was thinking. >> so you did feel fear? >> well, i did. it wasn't like i was afraid of him. i was kind of afraid of my own brain just going over and over this. >> bundy realized that if he wanted to keep killing, he was going to have to go somewhere where there was no investigation. >> he has the presence of mind to move from the washington area to utah. >> he used the excuse of going to the utah law school. he gave liz the option of going with him. but he was probably delighted when she said, no, i want to stay in seattle with my friends. bundy left for utah on september 3, 1974. and within 12 or so hours, maybe less, he would be murdering the idaho hitchhiker. ♪

>> bundy went to the university of utah school of law. >> when i was there at the law school, i would have regular contact with ted bundy. and everyone really liked him. there were periods of time when he was absent from class, and people would occasionally comment on that, "oh, ted's gone again." >> the first semester he's in class three times. he's like a kid in a candy store. he upped it in utah and he killed around four women in just a matter of weeks. >> i threw away everything. the handcuffs, everything. i'd get mad at myself a few weeks later because i'd have to go out and buy another pair. i mean, it's not comical but that's what would happen. >> everything bundy had within what is known as his murder kit, there were reasons behind it. >> the tire iron, the garrote, and, of course, gloves. >> the items weren't there for by chance. they all had a reason.

they were all connected to murder. >> he said i tried to get rid of evidence that would connect me to the crime and he said, i had to restock my tool kit all the time. >> bundy ran to the mormon church as a kind of refuge kind of thing. that was his angle at that point. they didn't know he was a bad guy. >> i baptized ted after we discussed the church with him and he made commitments. so we immediately started inviting him to our social events, parties, dinners. we chatted and had fun and played games. >> are you still in daily contact with ted as he's in utah? >> yeah. we would talk on the phone a lot. he was just the ted i knew. nothing was amiss. >> it's actually not uncommon for serial killers to have quote/unquote, a normal life while they're violently killing people. >> shortly after 7:00 on the evening of november the 8th, 1974, carol daronch parked her car in this parking lot at the fashion mall.

shortly after began what she now calls her personal nightmare. >> what makes this story so pivotal is that she is the only one that ever got away from bundy. >> she was approached by a man near waldens bookstore. this man identified himself as officer rosland. >> and he said, "do you drive a camaro?" and she said, "yes." he said, "well, my partner is holding a suspect. this individual tried to get into the car." >> he said they would have to go down to the main murray police department to sign a complaint. >> right when i was in the car i knew i had made a mistake. suddenly he just pulled the car over and it kind of went up on the side of the curb. and that's when i started absolutely freaking out. i remember yelling at him "what are you doing? this isn't the police station! what are you doing?" and i could tell he just changed. >> he stops the car and he attacks her. and she knows she's in the fight for her life.

he handcuffs the right wrist and in the midst of this fight scratching at him and fighting she gets the passenger door open and she jumps out of the car. >> he came out after me out the passenger side. i remember feeling a crowbar in his hand. he was trying to hit me over the head with it and struggling for a while. and then a car came along. i ran out into the street and just threw open their door and just jumped in on them. >> an elderly couple drove daronch to the murray police station, the search for her abductor began. >> and so this is the first time we have an eyewitness of somebody who survives a bundy attack. >> sometimes the urges become such a compulsion that they can't control themselves, and that's when they make mistakes. his compulsion that day was so high he had to kill somebody. the first one didn't work out. he's now frustrated, and so he goes to find a second victim. a teenager, debbie and kills her.

>> my friend came back from utah she said, "i don't want scare you, but it's happening down there now." >> yeah. the headlines of the missing women had stopped in seattle when ted left and they started in utah, where he was. >> yes. >> what did that feel like? >> oh my god. like the bottom of my world was falling out. it's, like, that's just too much of a coincidence. so i did call king county police. and i did meet with the detective. you know, it's one of the hardest things i've ever done, i gave them some pictures of him and they showed him to the best witness from lake sammamish. they pulled the picture out of the stack and said he's too old an put it back in the stack. >> so you had cleared your conscience. the police have cleared him. i just need to put the fears aside?

>> mm-hm. >> so you didn't trust your own instincts? >> no. >> i knew him so well. >> yeah. she loved him so much. everything had been so good so this was just crazy. >> i think that ted's girlfriend was very brave to call us. i think she called us in part out of fear and public duty, perhaps in part out of protecting herself. >> she had multiple contacts with the police. they did some investigation and kept coming back he is not your guy. >> at the same time while he is committing new murders in utah the cops in the state of washington are finding bones. and those bones are ultimately going to come back to haunt him. the heat is building up on him. ted starts looking for a new killing field. colorado. starts looking for a new killing field. colorado. (sprintern) paul- i'm loooooving the all-new dual camera system with ultra-wide on iphone 11! (paul) and i love how at sprint... (sprintern) ...you can get the amazing iphone 11 for zero dollars a month when you trade-in your iphone 6s or newer... (paul) in any condition. (sprintern) seriously, in any condition.

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it's the winter of 1975 and ted bundy's got to find a place where there's not a lot of talk about missing women and where he can blend in. so he ends up in aspen. >> he was very familiar with ski resorts in colorado already. he understood that those places are populated by basically strangers. >> on january 12th, 1975, caryn campbell disappeared from the wildwood inn. 36 days later, her nude body was found almost 3 miles away. >> two months later he heads over to vail and ends up killing

26-year-old ski instructor julie cunningham. >> he was just not going to stop. he had more relationships with dead women by now than living women. it was all about the hunt. >> bundy goes on this killing spree and he kills three women, a 24-year-old, a 15-year-old and a 12-year-old. >> in the summer of 1975, bundy's luck is changing. >> he was going from being the hunter to being the hunted. in granger, utah, a small suburb, it was like 2:00 in the morning. >> a cop was just getting off duty. >> his name was bob hayward. >> he saw this volkswagen parked in front of a house. he knew there were two young women living there. >> i turned the corner and put the lights on bright and stepped on the gas.

and he squirted. >> freaks bundy out. okay? he takes off. big mistake. >> so there was a chase. >> he pulled in the gas station and stopped. i pulled my magnum out and just sit in the crotch of the door. and i says, hold it right there. >> when hayward comes up to the car, he sees that the seat is out. >> but that's quite a space. you could stick a body in it. do you mind if i look through your car? >> in his car he had what we would call burglary tools, the ski mask, panty hose with the eyes cut out. he had a pair of handcuffs. >> i said what do you use handcuffs for? he said, i'm a law student. i use them in my classes. i took him in and booked him. i said, there's something wrong

with this guy. >> that put him on the radar of utah law enforcement and they had this unsolved abduction of carol. >> i got a call and it was ted. he says, i've been arrested. well, ted, what were you arrested for? oh, they think i'm the ted murderer. he laughed and i laughed. i didn't think he was at all guilty. >> at one point, police did show you a photo of the items they found in ted's car. how could he have possibly explained that away to you? >> he tried to just brush it off, oh, you know, i need the crowbar if i get in a wreck and need to pry cars apart. i need the ski mask for when i'm shoveling snow. >> carol came to the police station, was shown a lineup and was able to identify bundy as

the person who attacked her. >> he was arrested and charged with the kidnapping of carol. >> it was a likable guy and if he could be a killer, well, who else might be? so people just didn't want to believe it. >> i helped raise money to bail him out of jail. everybody in the ward felt he was innocent. >> while he was on bail, he came back, correct? >> uh-huh. >> what was that time like? >> well, when he first showed up at my door unannounced i was taken aback, but we started talking again. it was always just ted. >> she was always kind of playing this dance around what her gut instinct was telling her and what the world around her was saying about this possibility of this perfect male person doing these terribly violent things. >> there was like a fleet of police cars undercover that would follow he and my mom if

they went anywhere. and because of our placement in his world is the only reason that we're still alive, i'm quite certain, because people had their eyes on it. >> did that thought ever cross your mind? >> that he's going to kill us? no. >> did you think he was capable of murder? >> no. >> i mean, i still believed he was innocent at that point. >> during court proceedings in utah, bundy actually comes outside and talks to the media. >> you want to get involved in the criminal justice system? >> well, yes, i intend to complete my legal education and become a lawyer and be a damned good lawyer. >> ted testified and was the worst witness in the world. he was an arrogant [ bleep ] basically. and that's the way he came across on the stand. >> at the trial, carol picked out bundy as her abductor.

>> ted thought he could lie about everything and get away with it. it was pretty hard to explain why you drive around with an ice pick and a panty hose mask. most of us don't have that in our cars. >> ted bundy was convicted with kidnapping carol daroch. >> even after he was convicted, you thought it was a travesty of justice. you thought he was innocent? >> i did. i started to think my contacts with police set this in motion. >> you felt guilty? >> i did. >> after ted was convicted, absolutely still thought he was innocent and visited him in prison. >> there were still many people who thought that he'd been railroaded, who thought that he was innocent, who thought that he couldn't have done it. >> police officers from utah, washington state and colorado get together, share notes and

determine that they're all talking about the same guy. >> everybody knew he was their man. it was just a case of proving it. but he's planning to escape.

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was that the moment you knew the man you loved was a serial killer? >> and not just any serial killer -- ted bundy. >> i don't think anybody doubts that i've done bad things. the question is why. >> can you imagine this young woman and her young child spent more than five year with him and somehow they survived. decades later they're speak out on television for the first time. >> did he love you? >> would have been love, would have been just another manipulation. >> at the center of the ted bundy story is the idea that you could have sat next to him and yet had no idea what he was up to. >> when you saw the florida

murders, did you think it could be ted? >> mm-hmm. my heart just dropped. >> we are just these mice that were allowed to live. ted bundy, a wash state resident, was convicted last year of the kidnap assault of a young woman from salt lake city. >> after ted bundy's convicted of the kidnapping of carol daroncrh investigators found evidence linking him to carol campbell. >> it appears in his volkswagen bug were hairs of his victim from colorado. >> that gave the evidence to file on him. >> they transfer him to colorado to stand trial. they took him to the jail in aspen. >> at that point ted bundy had become pretty big news. i called the sheriff.

i asked him if i could speak with ted bundy. we sat in this narrow cell and did the interview. >> ted, you are not guilty. >> i am not guilty. exactly, exactly. does that include the time i stole a comic book when hifs 5 years old? >> he had such a pleasant, thoughtful, calm demeanor. i wasn't at all convinced he was guilty. he's the most plazent killeasan interviewed. >> no man is not guilty. i've been -- there are things i regret having done in my life, but nothing like the things i think you're referring to. >> i asked him if his situation made him angry, and he said yes. >> i don't like being locked up for something i didn't do. i don't like my liberties being taken away.

i don't like people walking around and ogling me like i'm some sort of weirdo, because i'm not. >> do you think about getting out of here? >> well, at legal issue. >> my class is graduating in about a month. >> she whe was assisting in his defense so he had the right to use the old law library. this is an old courthouse, the law library was on the top floor. >> the judge agreed that he didn't have to wear shackles or handcuffs. so he walked around the law library a free man. >> over the months i noticed a couple of opportunities to just walk right out. i thought a great deal about escape and i didn't know if i had the guts to do it quite frankly. >> there's a picture of him coming into the building and he's got a really concentrated

look on the face. he dressed with a valeter, a sweater. so he was planning to go that day. >> the guard went outside for a smoke. the windows were open and the fresh air was blowing through and the sky was blue, and i said i'm ready to go and unlocked the window and jumped out. honest to god i just got sick and tired of being locked up. >> he was gone about ten minutes before anyone realized. he came out and shouted, bundy escaped. >> he went up to the mountains in aspen, broke into a cabin, stayed in the cabin a few days. >> bundy said he went to aspen and broke into this cared that the keys in the ignition. >> he drove into the downtown aspen in a cadillac. >> he was a terrible driver, by the way. a patrol car sees the car weaving. they said, must be a drunk.

it's no drunk, it's ted bundy. >> how are you? >> good, how are you? >> i'm here. >> you can see him grinning when he's captured. he always acted like he pulled one over on everybody. >> he was moved to a facility in glenwood springs. >> i was one of the staff photographers at the seattle times. i was given a chance to photograph this fellow named ted. he had shackles on and i could lay on the floor and photograph him in all kinds of ways. he wanted to be seen. i'm ted bundy. look at me. i'm captured. but in his own mind, i'm not going to be here for long. >> so, there was a grate in the ceiling that was not secured. >> there was a light fixture that was due to be welded. it had not been welded. >> when i visited him in

glenwood noticed he lost a lot of weight. i would think this would come to the attention of the jailers. why is he doing this? he used a bunch of his lawbooks and assembled them along with some pillows to make it look as if there was a body in the bed. >> he carved a big enough opening in his cell. >> he lost enough wait to wiggle through. >> just like in the movie. he came down into the closet in the jailer's apartment. knew the jailer wasn't there. >> just astounding. he gets out into the nigh and he's free again. >> they woke up in glenwood springs and discovered bundy escaped basically 12 hours before. >> did you think it was possible to get out this way? >> we eliminated what we felt at that time was any possible escape from the roof. however, we were wrong. >> the keystone cops refer to,

let this guy go. >> what's the county doing to find him? >> we are looking everywhere, trains, busses, the usual thing. i have no idea where he is. people should be very careful, check on their neighbors, make sure their cars, neighbors are secure. >> i couldn't belief they let him escape twice. >> this is bad. ted bundy is on the loose and nobody knows where he is. once he escaped he had an opportunity to go somewhere and disappear, but he couldn't do that. he had to kill again.

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bundy's escape bordered on a houdini-esque escapade through a 12-inch by 12-inch hole in the ceiling. >> when bundy escaped, detectives said, he's going to kill again, it's just a matter of time. we don't know where or when, but he will kill again. and we now have to wait. >> bundy hopped a plane to chicago, took a train to ann arbor. stole a car. drove south to atlanta. and he hopped a trailways bus to tallahassee. >> bundy was an expert thief. everything that he obtained was

either through the stealing of credit cards or cash from wallets or purses. and dun bundy was very, very, very good at it. >> florida state university in tallahassee. the campus was generally safe and secure. it was not unusual at 3:00 in the morning to see people walking back and forth across campus because they felt safe. >> i had joined the sorority chi omega. living at chi o my parents felt was much safer than to live in the dormitory. >> being in chi omega was a wonderful part of my life. it was just like living with 40 friends. >> in the early morning hours of january 15th between 3:00 and 3:15 a.m., there was an intruder in the chi omega sorority house. he had with him some sort of a

wooden club. >> i was on routine patrol that night with my partner. we were approximately two blocks away from the chi omega house when we heard a call come on the radio, so we drove straight there. and as i stepped in, the girls were yelling, "upstairs, upstairs!" and there was a lot of crying. and at the top of the stairs was a girl named karen chandler, and she was down on the floor and she was bleeding quite badly from head injuries. >> pretty much every bone in my face was broken. my front teeth were mostly gone. >> i asked her, you know, what had happened. she said there was a loud banging noise. then she made mention about her roommate kathy kleiner. her injuries were much more extensive. her jaw was actually hanging off. >> i remember then laying on my bed and trying to talk, and i couldn't make any noise because my jaw was broken in three places. >> i decided to go ahead and

start a room-by-room search. i knocked on the door for margaret bowman's room and didn't get a response. i opened the door and i went and pulled back the covers and i could see she was strangled and beaten about the head. you could tell she was dead. i stepped across the hallway. and there was another body in the bed. >> lisa levy was beaten severely about the head and body. she also was strangled, and a bite mark was left on her rear buttock. >> it's so hard to see those girls like that. i'm so sorry for their families. >> he's now on the run. he's lost control. so he does something with little planning, high risk, taking on multiple women. he's on a frenzy.

>> after this horrendous attack at chi omega he goes just about four or five blocks away. >> he ended up at what we call the dunwoody residence which was the residence of cheryl thomas. >> i was a student at florida state university and i was a dance major. >> i woke up to this loud banging sound. and we could hear cheryl moaning, whimpering. and i called cheryl. we could hear the phone ringing because the wall was so thin. but she wasn't answering her phone, and that's what possessed me to call the police department. >> i sent an investigator immediately to that location. she went in, and she found cheryl thomas on the floor in blood and beaten. >> i learned that he came in through my kitchen window. he had worn a hose over his face he pulled that off and that was dropped on my floor.

if i did not have my neighbors calling, i don't think i would have survived. >> oh, my gosh. i mean, he left her for dead. >> i think it was a couple of days before i woke up. and i didn't know what had happened. >> i remember flashes of things. but basically woke up in intensive care. i could not go to the funeral. i was in the hospital. so i wanted call the families and let them know my thoughts were with them. it wasn't fair. it wasn't right that should happen to them. they were both beautiful people. there was no reason behind it. i was asleep in my room and yet evil opened my door and attacked me. >> he went in and brutalized them. that's rage. woman hating rage. >> he calls you and says, can

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from new york, this is the abc weekend news. >> four young women were beaten with a club and two of them were strangled to death last night by a man who found his victims sleeping in this sorority house. >> i was leaving the sorority house, driving, and i got a call

over the radio that there's was an investigator that wants to talk to me from out west. i talked to the investigator, and i wrote down a name that he gave me that he thought maybe i should look into. that name was ted bundy. but obviously, i didn't think that was possible. the m.o. of abduction in a car didn't fit. the m.o. of potentially abducting some person and taking them somewhere, perhaps in the woods, and murdering them, that didn't fit in. so what we had was fresh murder in a house. so i was somewhat dismissive. when i was at the morgue and i looked at the bodies, on lisa levy, there was a bite left that

was very important. >> the person that bit lisa levy bit once, released, and then went back and bit a second time, almost in exactly the same place. >> i mean, it was done so perfectly, that i just believed in my heart that it was a signature. >> about three weeks after the chi omega attacks in tallahassee, there comes word in lake city -- that's about 90 miles east of tallahassee, that a junior high school student, kimberly leach has disappeared during the middle of the school day. >> it was raining, drizzly, very dreary day. i went to our designated spot to meet up to go to our next class together and she wasn't there. we knew something was wrong. >> kim was not a student to skip class torque lea class, to leave campus. i mean, we were 12. and she was very shy.

>> there was a firefighter who was comingme, saw a man walking across the campused that kim by the arm, and he assumed that he was her father. >> police are urging anyone with any information about kimberly leach to contact them as soon as possible. >> in pensacola, more than a month after a chi omega attacks, this man is arrested on a traffic stop. >> the officer made a stop because of the unusual behavior of the volkswagen. and he walked up to the vehicle. but then it crackles over the radio that this is a stolen vehicle. the officer and he have quite an encounter. >> initially when i was placing the handcuffs on him, he kicked my feet out from under me and struck me with a handcuff that had been placed on one wrist. and of course knocked me off my feet, and that's when it started. >> bundy fought him. and he wound up having to pistol

whip him. >> he's got this round mark on him right here, that's where he had hit him with that pistol barrel straight on. >> he spends a couple of days stonewalling this police! who is this man? he refused to give his name to the authorities and then told his arresting officer he'd probably get a promotion for nabbing him. >> they find out that his drivers license isn't who he says he is, the car he's driving doesn't belong to him, he's just this mystery guy. >> two people who want most to know who he is are tallahassee detectives steve bodiford and don patchen. >> i sat there with him. i gave him his rights. and i ask him his name. he said it was kenneth. and i started saying, "where'd you get the vw from?" he said, "i stole it from fsu." i said, "what about all these credit cards?" "well, i got them off of people

that were next door to the chi omega house." >> the mystery man will be kept behind bars for three more weeks before returning to court to enter a plea. officials say by then they hope to know who he is. >> he says to the police, "i'll tell you who i am. just let me make a phone call." and he calls his old girlfriend. >> describe the telephone call you received. >> he said he was in custody. he repeated over and over again that this was really going to be bad when it broke. and i asked him where and he said florida. >> and what did you think when he said florida? >> oh, my heart just dropped. and i said, oh, i was afraid that you were going to be in florida. i said, i knew, i saw some pictures in the newspaper about some tragic murders down there, and i'm -- he said, welsh i wish i could talk with you with nobody listening. and i said, are you trying to tell me you're sick? and he got really mad. he told me he was sick and that he was consumed by something he didn't understand. that he just couldn't contain

it. he called back in the middle of the night just a day or two later. he said, "i want to talk about what we were talking about on the phone the other day." i said, at you being sick? and he said, "yes." >> was that the moment that you knew the man you loved was a serial killer? >> yes. it took him telling me himself that he -- he had something wrong with him. he knew that he couldn't be around a certain thing, that he was addicted to something and he meant young women and causing them harm. it was awful. how this man i loved and seemed to be such a great guy could go out and do such horrific things, it's just so hard to accept. >> looking back, obviously, hindsight is 20/20, were there any red flags? >> there'd been one episode in particular right the week before these two women were abducted from lake sammamish. we'd been rafting down a very cold river.

i was sitting on the edge of the raft and he pushed me in, just quite violently. i grabbed hold of the rope that was dragging behind the raft so i could get back in, but his eyes were so -- they just got really weerird looking and it w like he couldn't see anymore. i got back in the raft and i started to just chew him out for doing that. and he finally kind of came back to his body and said, oh, can't you take a joke? i was only kidding. >> you saw his eyes change? >> absolutely. >> like another person almost emerged in that moment. >> mm-hmm. mm-hmm. >> did you feel fear? >> no, not at the time. i felt -- >> anger? >> anger, yes. >> her body was found.

she had been murdered. she had been placed in the lean-to shed in the hog pen in this wooded area. >> you don't understand. even when you hear the details you can't comprehend it as being a 12-year-old and this was your classmate who was just innocent. >> a lake county jury sealed an indictment. >> the evidence against him until kimberly leach case ranged from eyewitness testimony, people seeing him grabbing putting together parts of a puzzle. >> we're starting to put this all together and tying it up in what appears to be one bundle. >> already two agencies toll the pence cola police they want to talk with ted bundy z the walls

are closing in on ted. >> okay, you got me indict. that's all you're going get. >> ted bundy the master manipulator makes a move no one thought was coming. >> he called a witness, put her on the stand, said will you marry ame? she said, yes, i do. >> they're thinking what's going on here? that one slice of melty cheese at the bottom and another draped haphazardly over the 100% fresh beef patty cooked right when you order. true, the hottest, juiciest quarter pounder yet is not perfect. but when you put it all together, ha ha it's perfect made perfecter. ♪ ba da ba ba ba (lisa) it's goat h&r block,sparent. you know the price before you begin. it makes things... [thud] ...crystal clear. (lisa vo) upfront transparent pricing. (lisa) sorry trevor. (lisa vo) know the price before you begin.

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delivered exclusively with uber eats. step out, mr. bundy. >> what do we have here, ken? let's see. oh, it's an indictment, all right. why don't you read it to me. >> for the chi omega murders, a grand jury in tallahassee issued an indictment against ted bundy. ken katsaris, the sheriff of leon county, with the cameras

rolling, the lights on, read through the whole indictment. >> let's read it. let's go. >> theodore robert bundy, you are charged. >> and of course he kept interrupting me, but i -- i just kept on. >> he still looked like the boy next door, until that night that the indictments were read, and that's when the devil came out. >> he looked each of us in the eye. this was the killer in that room. you could feel it. >> i'll plead not guilty right now. >> and your grand jurors being present -- >> after ted is charged with the murders and assaults at florida state, you still have these cases out west. clearly florida has the best eviden evidence, and so the prosecutors got together and set, look, we're going prosecute ted bundy.

>> from my perspective i wanted to get ted bundy off the streets forever. >> the trial got off kind of slowly because bundy was not cooperating with his attorneys. ted bundy wanted to be the one who was in charge. >> he told me he was going to confess and make it right for the people he'd hurt, and then he went on to this show of saying, "i'm innocent, i'm innocent, i'm innocent." i'm just so angry about that. >> your honor, i am here today because i assert my innocence. >> the judge allowed ted bundy to act as co-counsel. >> for a defendant to be part of the defense team is extraordinarily unusual. >> he had gone to law school. this wasn't so far-fetched for him to be in a courtroom. >> a lawyer that represents himself is then a fool for a client, and i want to caution you about that, but i'm not going to deny you that right. >> some things are best done by yourself than others. >> it's the ideal stage for ted bundy. >> he thinks he can manipulate and convince a jury through his

charm and good looks that he couldn't have possibly committed these crimes. >> be seated. court will come to order. >> every day during the trial, the courtroom was filled. some reporters, but mostly spectators. a number of them were young women who were, i think, just drawn to the allure of seeing this guy on trial. >> carole boone was one of the constant personalities. >> carole boone actually met bundy back in his washington state days. >> so she knew him before any of these things happened. she was his advocate. she called him bunny. she was affectionate towards him. >> he literally sort of pulls her into his web, convinces her he's not guilty. >> your conclusion is what? >> that he did not commit the murders in washington state. that he did not abduct carole daronch. that he did not murder or abduct any of the other women in utah. that he did not kill caryn campbell. that he did not commit the crimes at chi omega, in lake city, or on dunwoody street in tallahassee.

>> she was a true believer, and she wanted everybody else to have the same conviction that he was not a guilty person. >> i do. >> i called ray crew of the florida state university police department to kind of set the scene of what he saw whenever he got to the chi omega house. and for some reason, mr. bundy decided that he wanted to cross-examine officer crew. >> good morning, officer. >> he asked him to describe in detail this horrific crime scene. >> and can you describe what you saw when you lifted up the covers, as much detail as you can recall, and if you need to use your report, please feel free to do so. >> she was lying basically face down. there was a considerable amount of blood around her head, matted in her hair, on the walls. >> there was a palpable reaction in the courtroom and amongst the jury when he did that.

>> uh, her mouth was open and her eyes were open. there was what appeared to be a nylon stocking netted around her neck. as i was describing her injuries and the blood, his grip on the lectern tightened up and his eyes actually got a bit larger. i had the distinct impression that he was vicariously reliving it and enjoying it. >> it was so chilling. it was sickening. >> the week began with the prosecution introducing evidence to prove that ted bundy was the man seen by an eyewitness leaving the scene of the crime. that ted bundy's hair matched hairs found in a pantyhose mask. that a bite mark left on one of the victims could have been made only by ted bundy. >> the bite mark evidence, it was both new and unorthodox and compelling in the trial. >> read the verdict, madam

clerk. >> the state of florida versus theodore robert bundy. we the jury find the defendant, theodore robert bundy, as to count two of the indictment, murder in the first degree upon one margaret bowman, guilty as charged. >> ted's ultimately convicted basically of all the charges. the jury recommends he gets death. the judge gives him death. >> it is further ordered that on such scheduled date that you be put to death. >> after the chi omega trial ended and he was convicted in those murders, he was then facing a new trial. >> the second trial was over the kidnapping and murder of kimberly leach which occur in the lake city, florida. >> the murder i think that probably felt most connected to was bundy's last murder, an abduction of a 12-year-old, kimberly leach, because you were 12? >> yeah. i mean, it's hard to find words

for how devastating it is, the loss of this girl and the things that he did to her. but it's really -- as you can see, been a life long source of agony. thinking about her parents, her friends. >> that someone was capable -- >> that someone took enjoyment in harming a child. murdering and mutilating a child. >> it was a very compelling circumstantial evidence case, and it did npre me althhe w g >> in the penalty phase, bundy represented himself, and he

called carole boone and put her on the witness stand, had her testify about how much she loved him. >> and something out of the blue happen. he actually proposes to carole boone in front of a camera. >> carole, do you want to marry me? >> yes. >> and i want to marry you? >> yes. >> he said, i'll marry you. i pronounce us man and wife. >> at that time under florida law if you asked someone to marry and the person says yes, and there's a notary public there, it's a legal marriage. >> okay, that did it. signed it, sealed it, delivered it, and they married right there in the middle of penalty phase. >> now ted bundy is a convicted murderer, he's a new husband, and he is, in effect, a dead man walking. >> i don't think anybody doubts that i've done some bad things. the question is what of course, and how, and maybe, most importantly, why? (sprintern) paul- i'm loooooving the all-new dual camera system with ultra-wide on iphone 11!

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i think a lot of people are interested in why. people constantly ask me, why? >> ted bundy's now on death row, and you have a whole range of people who still want to talk to him. >> we don't understand what makes a person like that click. we want to try to figure that out. >> ted bundy primarily talked to bob keppel, a homicide detective from seattle, and bill hagmaier, an fbi profiler. >> we were interviewing serial killers, serial rapists. we were looking for understanding in how you or someone like you got away with what you did. and he said, "do you think i'm

going to say i did anything to you?" and i said, "no, i don't think so at all. i'm just gonna ask you your perceptions on different cases." >> he then launches into conversations about quote/unquote, helping them with other serial killers. >> the guy whose killing these women, it's like a hobby to him. well, maybe more than that, an obsession. >> in telling things about what the killer might have done, he's actually telling on himself. >> it became clear to me -- and he went back to lots of crime scenes. >> he's returning to see the bodies and -- i imagine whatever drives him to do that, whether it's curiosity or desire, make sure he didn't leave any evidence there or some kind of thrill. >> he said, "that place will always be sacred to them. particularly if he killed there. >> while ted bundy is on death row, he's even figured out a way to manipulate the system and

possibly father a child. >> he married carol boone. we think the guards allowed them to have an element of privacy to where he could have sexual intercourse with her. >> there were pictures at the time of ted bundy with carol and a child. and it's clear the photograph was taken on death row. >> on january 24th at 7:00 a.m., the death warrant will be in effect. >> just a few days before his execution, he decides he's going to start confessing. because he felt if he finally starts doling out information, perhaps the state will keep him alive indefinitely. >> he became very desperate. and he wanted to offer the authorities something called bones for time. >> i mean, i am the only one in possession of this information. that's just the way it is. to do a proper job for everybody, i'm going to need some time.

>> bill hagmeir was quite successful in getting bundy to actually confess. >> you've been involved in how many homicides? >> we went over this a little bit earlier, and we came up with 30. >> experts think the number is much higher. >> it could've been well over 100. but we'll never know that. he's talked about, you know, having sex with them while they were unconscious. or having sex with them, which is called necrophilia, after they've died. >> in a couple of the cases, and i'm not sure how many, but you opted to sever the heads from the victims. and how many were there, do you recall of the 30? >> oh, that's -- perhaps half a dozen. >> all of a sudden he wants to tell the truth. for him to be negotiating for his life over the bodies of victims is despicable. >> you've been after this for

15 years. a couple of months is not going to make any difference. you don't negotiate with a murderer. you don't negotiate with a killer. >> the governor says he's fully confident bundy will be executed tomorrow. ♪ bye bye ted bundy goodbye ♪ >> it was a really festive atmosphere. there are even ted bundy t-shirts for sale. >> people were cheering, they were singing. ♪ >> right now bundy's meeting with a minister in one of those death row cells behind me. in a few minutes his head will be shaved as he's prepared for execution. >> when he came in the room, he was scared to death.

he was just as white as a sheet. he had been shaven. he didn't look like the boy next door. his head was completely bald. and i literally saw him -- knees just collapse when he saw the chair and knew he wasn't going to get away. >> they walked him over and sat him down in the chair. then they dropped the hood over him. and you could tell that the switch had been thrown by bundy's fists clenching. and i thought the myself, i wonder how many throats those fingers have tightened around. >> that's it. that's the signal. >> theodore bundy was executed at 7:16 this morning in the electric chair in florida state prison. >> about damn time! [ cheers ] >> it's been more than 30 years since that day, and now liz is talking about the darkness she lived through and how she

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there have been a lot of ted bundy specials, documentaries. people have been fascinated with him for more than three decades. and you have been conspicuously absent from all of those projects. >> well, we have been approached a lot about participating in various things, but we really didn't want to put more ted bundy out into the atmosphere. >> now, as part of their healing process, liz and molly have decided to take part in a five-part series called "ted bundy: falling for a killer." it tells the story from the perspective of the women who were directly affected by his crimes. >> i was very surprised he was having this meltdown. i know in hindsight what he was talking about. >> i came to age at the time the crimes came to light. he is metaphorically still the reason i lock my door at night. and i didn't feel the story

had been told ever from the perspective of the women. we all know a lot about him. few people can name any of his victims. >> when you see those women's names, when you see their faces, what goes through your mind? >> the world has lost so much. susan rancourt's mother, who talks about the fact that she, she loved science. and you just wonder if he'd -- if ted bundy hadn't taken her life, what could she have done with that love? the docuseries is so powerful because it really makes it clear what our society has lost by this man's actions. >> at the center of the ted bundy story is the idea that you could have sat next to him, that you could have been in a relationship with him, and yet had no idea of what he was up to. >> i know you've asked yourself this a million times. why do you think he spared you?

>> whatever transpired at the beginning of his interaction with my mother put her in a different category, and i think our placement in his life kept us safe. people knew he was -- involved with us. i feel grateful not to have been harmed when i see what the big picture was here. i don't feel sorry for myself. i actually feel very grateful to be alive and really grateful to have my mom here alive. >> liz, i think especially for you, i'm sure there's guilt. >> guilt about causing this in my daughter's life. guilt about what he had done. guilt that i had loved this man that was so gruesome. i quit drinking right after he was convicted in utah of kidnapping and started a recovery program. i think? i hasn't have done that i would

have -- i just didn't feel like i wanted to live anymore. it was just pretty depressing, and -- but i think that was the start of me rebuilding my life. but it's taken a lot of time. >> what can we learn from your story and all those other women's stories? what do you hope people take away from this? >> i hope that they will see that it's possible to have terrible, traumatic experiences and it's possible to rebuild your life. our process has probably been nothing like the process the families of these women that were killed. i'm sure it was a million times harder. >> being in the room there with molly and liz, it's clear even after all these years how raw their emotions still are and how they will never fully escape

those memories. >> so understandable. and your interviews were really powerful sophomore great of them to come forward. you can hear more from these women on the amazon series. it's streaming now. that is "20/20" for tonight. i'm david muir. >> i'm amy robach. thanks for watching. for all of us here at "20/20" and abc news, good night. developing news as the

coronavirus spreads, a new ban goes into effect. a gunshot victim is found at an east bay high sch