right now, at this defining moment in america. ♪ we gonna be all right >> with so much on the line, from abc news, my america, your america, our america. this is "turning point." tonight, breonna taylor. >> breonna taylor! >> outrage over the grand jury decision. no murder charges for the officers involved. will there ever be justice for breonna? and questions about what can be done now. reporting tonight, deborah roberts. >> breonna taylor! >> reporter: how urgent do you think it is to have transparency

for the public to know what really went on in this grand jury room? >> oh, the urgency, it's immediate. we need answers now. >> reporter: with police being spared serious charges in the shooting death of breonna taylor, her loved ones want answers. >> they want to know what evidence did kentucky attorney general daniel cameron present to that grand jury. >> the decision did not touch on any of the actions that led to or that were involved in the actual killing of breonna taylor, and this, to me, is just absolutely shocking. >> reporter: how is it possible that so many legal minds like yours can see so many holes in this case, so many problems with this case and that the grand jury somehow did not. >> which is why we need to see the transcript. we need to understand how this case was presented to the grand jury. we know there is a proclivity by

many jurors to believe police officers no matter what. this, to me, goes to the very heart of the matter of black lives matter. does the life of this extraordinary young woman who was sleeping in her bed after working four shifts as an emt, does her life matter? her life does matter. >> breonna taylor's life matters! >> reporter: for months now, 26-year-old taylor's name shouted on the streets amidst calls for police reform. but hopes for criminal charges may be dimming. >> in any other circumstance i would suggest there could potentially be a federal civil right the prosecution. i would suggest there could be a pattern and practice investigation of the louisville police department. i hold out little hope for that with this department of justice. >> reporter: under president trump's department of justice, they have dropped consent decrees which allows the federal government to oversee troubled police departments. after last night's protest in

lieu louisville where two officers were shot, the president responded. >> i give my respects to the family of breonna. i think it's so sad with everything that's happening with that whole case, including law enforcement. >> the initial warrant was what's called a no-knock warrant, meaning they can arrive at the house, they don't have to announce themselves, they can literally break down the door. that was amended so that they were required to actually knock and announce themselves before they came in. >> reporter: according to the search warrant, police came to taylor's home seeking to seize marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth and all illegal narcotics our paraphernalia. authorities believed an ex-boyfriend of taylor's, an alleged drug dealer, was using her address for drug trafficking. there are reports that breonna taylor was more involved in her ex-boyfriend's world than was widely reported which is why police say she entered their

radar. does that change anything about this case for you. >> actually not at all. here's a young woman who was involved with someone that she was now extricating herself from and had extricated herself from. there is no evidence that she herself was involved in any illegal activities. >> reporter: ironically, that ex-boyfriend had been arrested before officers arrived at taylor's home and no drugs were found in her apartment. the family's attorney saying the affidavit to get that warrant said the postal inspector's office was inspecting packages to breonna taylor's home as part of a probe, something the postal inspector denies. following a volley of gunshots, taylor lay dying in the arms of kenneth walker who first fired at officers fearing he was under attack. he's crushed, says his lawyer, that the men who killed his long-time love weren't charged in her death. >> his backpack that he had

brought, his overnight clothes, and there were bullet holes. how crazy is that? he held his girlfriend in his arms as she was gasping for her last breath. >> reporter: how is he doing? >> it's tough. yesterday opened up more wounds. it's almost as bad as the day of the incident itself. >> 911, operator harris, where's your emergency? >> i don't know what's happening. somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend. >> can you check and see where she's been shot at? >> i can't, she's on her stomach. >> is she alert and able to talk to you? >> no. bre. >> mr. walker admitted that he fired one shot and was the first to shoot. >> reporter: does he feel that he was blamed? >> absolutely, and i believe that, too. based on the press conference that general cameron gave. look, the entire world knows that kenny fired first.

but it's why he fired first is that's the really important question. that he thought that there was an intruder at the door, so he did what lawful gun owners do. he wanted to protect his girlfriend and himself. in their apartment. >> the grand jury process is secret, but the prosecutors could certainly decide, we are going to disclose everything that we presented to the grand jury. and there's a very serious argument that that could help answer a lot of questions that people have. >> reporter: the grand jurors heard evidence that one witness recalls hearing the police announce themselves. >> evidence shows that officers both knocked and announced their presence at the apartment. >> what he didn't say was that there was one witness who believes that he heard the police say "police" once. and that there were maybe ten or

11 other witnesses who said that the police did not say anything. >> reporter: no murder charges would be filed. no manslaughter charges either against officers brett hankinson. instead, hankenson charged with endangerment. >> the officer was charged with firing on the neighbors. not even on her. what did that say to you? >> well, i think that's the part that is so hard to take. frankly, offensive. it is an indictment that suggests that had he actually shot breonna taylor, he would not be facing any indictments. he's only facing indictments because he missed. >> reporter: is there anything unique to kentucky that makes it particularly difficult to prosecute police officers? >> not that i'm able to detect from the laws of the state.

you know, prosecuting police officers and obtaining a conviction is difficult in every state in the country. there is a presumption that is afforded police officers. they very rarely face conviction when and if they are actually brought to trial. >> reporter: among the familiar names of blacks who've died at the hands of police, there have been few arrests and even fewer convictions. the rare instances where police officers have faced criminal charges have occurred mainly in the past two years. tatiana jefferson, george floyd and rayshard brooks. what would be justice for breonna taylor in your view? >> there can be no justice for breonna taylor because ultimately her life has been taken from her. but for her sister, her mother, the community and all of us, i think we need to see that the legal system actually is

prepared to function like a just system. that it will function in a way that says no one is above the law. and that wearing a uniform does not make you above the law. >> in my view, justice for breonna taylor would be acknowledging her humanity. are yo . >> reporter: activist tameka has joined in her hon our. >> we continuously see this country fail us. we see the process and the criminal justice system, how it fails not just black people but particularly black women. no one wants to normalize the feeling of being disappointed, of being disrespected and splaped spla slapped in the face by injustice. >> reporter: malory saying she hopes justice for taylor will result in large-scale, sustained reform. >> the other part of justice is not just about breonna taylor. this family has said over and

over they also want to see that laws are passed across kentucky and across the country that protects the next breonna taylor. >> reporter: already, some change is happening. br breonna's law bans no-knock warrants in liouisville. her family also awarded a multi-million dollar settlement. still, unclear if we've reached a turning point for lasting change in the criminal justice system. ♪ ♪

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for a closer look at where the breonna taylor case stands, earlier tonight i spoke with three experts on policing. marilyn mosby, carolyn crenshawa and the co-founder of the center for policing equity. thank you all for joining us. the fbi is still investigating this case, despite the grand jury indictment. kimberly, what other ways account officers be charged criminally? >> the only option is the fbi

investigation for civil rights but i have to tell you, even in the best situation, with an administration that has shown its interest in protecting african-americans and other people against police brutality, it's a tough, tough, tough charge to make and then, in this particular administration it's almost impossible, you know, to imagine that there's going to be another step. i think this is a case that shows the traditional mechanisms for holding police accountable in this circumstance just did not work. >> dr. goff, is there a path to justice for breonna taylor's family despite what happened yesterday with the grand jury? >> bluntly, no. and that's because breonna taylor is dead. you cannot get justice once someone is taken offer this earth. the best you can hope for is accountability. i think for too many people in the streets last night and for 100 days splplus we've had, the

system is working the way it's supposed to. that's thing that's inspiring change. >> do you see indications that's going to happen any time soon based on what's happening in kentucky? >> it doesn't look like it's going to happen at the state level, but if people insist on it through electoral means or whatever, the american populace is way more activated to this issue than i have ever seen it in my lifetime. >> kimberly, there are people upset about the lack of charges against the try officers. do you think the officers should have been charged with manslaughter or murder? >> i absolutely think they should have and could have, and that the selective credibility that the a.g. gave to one witness as opposed to nearly a dozen others who said that they did not hear the police announce themselves shows us that there is subjectivity involved in evaluating the evidence.

i mean, we're not going to know for certain what the grand jury was presented with until and unless it's, it's released. >> marilyn, five years ago you prosecuted police officers in baltimore in the freddie gray case. none of them were convicted. can you speak to how hard it is to get a conviction against law enforcement, and do you understand the frustration that so many people are feeling today? >> well, i can truly speak to the frustration of so many people and americans in this country right now, especially for black people in this country. we only know, honestly, what injustice looks like. and the refusal to see our humanity, based upon the color of our skin is something that we cannot and will not any longer accept. the law is what it is. but it's subject to interpretation. and you cannot underestimate the power and the discretion of the local prosecutor. and that's what we saw here today, right?

you know, the charging police is difficult, it's going to come with being mocked, ridiculed, hate mail and death threats. i was personally sued. but you cannot tell me. we take an obligation to apply justice over convictions. and what you cannot tell me is that this one standard of justice was applied in this particular case. >> to the average lay person you would think if the prosecutor in this case thought due process was necessary to let this run its course that he could have brought some charges of some sort, yes? no? >> i minean you're absolutely right, byron. it's always the case. the grand jury is led by the prosecutor. you have to ask what evidence the prosecutor put before the grand jury. >> the prosecutor said he presented what the law allowed him to do. it seems to me that you are thinking if he wanted an indictment he could have gotten

an indictment. >> it's one-sided. you put forward the evidence you want the grand jury to consider to lodge the charges that you want to exist. and, if you don't want those charges to exist, then guess what, you throw it in front of the grand jury, and you throw your hands up and say oh, guess what, it's not on me, it's on the grand jury. they decided and they decided not to bring charges. it's a no-bill on this one. >> the louisville police department implemented changes, but louisville is one force in one country. what else needs to happen? >> i think one of the most important things that needs to be grappled with is this is not a new problem. we have to understand that black people in particular have been policed since we came to these shores, since we were brought here, the policing that black women have experienced specifically has been in their homes. for black women, there is no place of safety. and the last thing to recognize is to really understand this

vulnerability, we have to pull the lens back. we've got to look at structural dimensions. we have to look at the history of racial inequality. this is an attack on our bodies and the real tragedy is not that the officers weren't charged with anything. the real challenge is that breonna was killed in the first place. >> thank you all for your time and expertise, and sad lay, i would imagine we will have this conversation again. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. aks, you shouldn't have to sacrifice discretion for protection. try always discreet. the unique design features protective leakguards, which help prevent leaks where they happen most and an absorbent material that turns liquid into gel, for up to 100% leak free protection. the shapewear design provides a close and seamless fit, to ensure total discretion. choose the solution that keeps you drier. try always discreet underwear, with a money back guarantee.

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