this is "nightline." tonight, dueling town halls. and different styles. joe biden and donald trump making their case. >> the words of a president matter. >> hey, i'm president. i have to see people. i can't be in a basement. >> competing from two different battleground states. >> what is your plan for either extending the tax cuts for the middle class or creating a new plan that further reduces those taxes? >> what do you have to say to young black voters? >> if a vaccine would approved, would you take it? >> the covid-19 crisis front and center. >> i go to every local official, say mandate the mask. >> i'm good with masks. i'm okay with masks. i tell people, wear masks. >> as biden gains ground in the polls, what can the president do

to change the course? "nightline" will be right back.

good evening. thank you for joining us. with election day less than $weeks away, tonight the unprecedented moment. two competing town halls replacing a presidential debate. former vp joe biden and president trump speaking

directly to voters. were their messages heard? here's my "nightline" coanchor juju chang. >> if i'm elected president, you'll not hear me race baiting, you'll not hear me dividing, i'm going to try to unify. >> we've done a good job. the strongest economy in the world, we're coming around the corner, vaccines coming out soon. >> reporter: both candidates appearing in critical battleground states. vice president biden in an abc news town hall in pennsylvania. >> this president embraces all the thugs in the world. best friends with the leader in north korea, sending love letters. he doesn't take on putin in any way. >> reporter: president trump in florida at an nbc news town hall. >> we are running the remnants of whatever is left much better than the previous administration, which ran it very badly. >> reporter: biden currently leads trump nationally in the latest abc news/"washington post" poll by 12 points, 54-42. >> president was informed how dangerous this virus was.

it is a presidential responsibility to lead, and he didn't do that. he didn't talk about what needed to be done. because he kept worrying, in my view, about the stock market. >> reporter: the covid-19 crisis front and center. >> so my question for you is, if a vaccine were approved between now and the end of the year, would you take it? and if you were to become president, would you mandate that everyone has to take it? >> two things. number one, president trump talks about things that just aren't accurate, about everything from vaccines, we're going to have one right away, it's going to happen, so on. the point is that if the scientists, if the body of scientists say that this is what is ready to be done and it's been tested and they've gone through the three phases, yes, i would take it, i'd encourage people to take it. >> reporter: biden was pressed on whether he'd mandate vaccines when they're available. >> it depends on the state of the nature of the vaccine, when it comes out, and how it's being

distributed. that would depend. but i would think that we should be talking about, depending on the continuation of the spread of the virus, we should be thinking about making it mandatory. >> reporter: since the last time the two shared a stage -- >> why wouldn't you answer that question? >> because the question is -- >> reporter: the president tested positive for covid, recovering quickly thanks to experimental treatments and has finally embraced being back on the campaign trail, with densely packed, mostly maskless, rallies. >> i feel so powerful, i'll walk into that audience. i'll walk in there, i'll kiss everyone in that audience. i'll kiss the guys and the beautiful women and the -- every, i'll just give you a big, fat kiss. >> reporter: tonight the president light on details about his covid battle. >> did the doctors ever tell you that they saw pneumonia on your lung scans? >> no, but they said the lungs are, you know, a little bit different, a little bit, perhaps, infected. and -- >> infected with? >> i don't know.

i mean, i didn't do too much asking. >> reporter: when challenged about the largely maskless event in the rose garden, the president again cast doubt on the effectiveness of masks in preventing infection. >> as far as the mask is concerned, i'm good with masks. i'm okay with masks. i tell people, wear masks. but just the other day they came out with a statement that 85% of the people that wear masks catch it. >> what? they didn't say that. i know that study -- >> that's what i heard. >> reporter: biden and his campaign have followed strict covid-19 protocols. >> how many of you have been unable to hug your grandkids? >> reporter: with the pandemic weighing down on the economy, the candidates took aim at each other's tax plans. >> companies are pouring into our nation because of the tax rate. and if biden comes in and raises taxes on everybody, including middle income taxes, which he wants to do, you will blow this thing and you'll end up with a depression the likes of which you've never had. that's what's going to happen. >> you stated that anyone making less than $400,000 will not see one single penny of their taxes raised.

>> that's right. >> you also state that you were going to eliminate the trump tax cuts. what is your plan for either extending the tax cuts for the middle class or creating a new plan that further reduces the taxes? >> i carry this card. trump tax cuts, $1.3 trillion of the $2 trillion in tax cuts went to the top one-tenth of 1%. that's what i'm talking about eliminating, not all the tax cuts that are out there. >> reporter: after months of calls for racial equity, biden weighing in on what he will do for black americans. >> besides you ain't black, what do you have to say to young black voters who see voting for you as further participation in a system that continually fails to protect them? >> well, i say, first of all, as my buddy john lewis said, it's a sacred opportunity to right the vote, to make a difference, if young black women and men vote, you can determine the outcome of this election. not a joke. you can do that. the next question is, am i worthy of your vote? can i earn your vote? and the answer is, there's two

things i think that i care and i've demonstrated i care about my whole career. one is, in addition to dealing with criminal justice system to make it fair and make it more decent, we have to be able to put black americans in a position to be able to gain wealth, generate wealth. >> reporter: at the last debate, the president was criticized for refusing to condemn white supremacists and militia groups. >> who would you like me to condemn? >> proud boys. >> proud boys? stand back and stand by. >> reporter: tonight he was pressed again. >> are you listening? i didn't ask white supremacy -- >> okay. >> what's your next question? >> do you feel -- it feels sometimes you're hesitant to do so. >> here we go again. every time. in fact, when people came, i'm sure they'll ask you the white supremacy question. i denounce white supremacy. >> reporter: yet dodging when asked to disavoid the conspiracy group q-anon. >> i know nothing about q-anon. >> i just told you -- >> i know very little -- you told me, but what you tell me

doesn't necessarily make it fact, i hate to say that. i know nothing about it. i do know they are very much against pedophilia. they fight it very hard. but i know nothing about -- >> they believe it is a satanic cult run by the deep states -- >> i'll tell you what i do know about. i know about antifa, i know about the radical left, i know how violent they are, how vicious they are, i know how they're burning down cities run by democrats. >> reporter: with all eyes this week on the supreme court confirmation hearing of judge amy coney barrett, the former vice president pushed once again on whether he'd expand the number of justices. >> i have not been a fan of court packing, because i think it just generates what will happen -- whoever wins, it just keeps moving in a way that is inconsistent with what is going to be manageable. >> you're still not a fan? >> well, i'm not a fan. i didn't say -- it depends on how this turns out, not how he wins but how it's handled. >> you are open to expanding the court? >> i'm open to considering what

happens from that point on. >> you know, you said so many times during the campaign, all through the course of your career, it's important to level. >> it is. but george, if i say -- no matter what answer i gave you, if i say it, that's the headline tomorrow. it won't be about what's going on now. the improper way they're proceeding. >> don't voters have a right to know -- >> they do have a right to know where i stand, and they'll have a right to know where i stand before they vote. >> you'll come out with a clear position on election day? >> yes, depending on how they handle this. >> reporter: the president punting. >> would you like to see roe versus wade overturned? >> i would like to see a brilliant jurist, a brilliant person, who has done this in great depth and has actually skirted this issue for a long time make a decision. and that's why i chose her. i think that she's going to make a great decision. i did thought tell her what decision to make, and i think it would be inappropriate to say right now. because i don't want to do anything to influence her.

i want her to get approved, and then i want her to go by the law. >> reporter: biden was forceful about what he saw were perceived conflicts of interest with trump and his justice department. >> the biden justice department will do is let the department of justice be the department of justice. let them make the judgments of who should be prosecuted. they are not my lawyers. they are not my personal lawyers. do you remember any republican president going out there or former democratic president, go find that kind of prosecutor. you ever hear that? or, by the way, i'm being sued because a woman's accused me of rape, represent me. represent me. personally represent me in the state of new york on not allowing my tax returns. what's that all about? >> reporter: when biden's tv time was over, he stayed on, continuing to answer every question that came his way from the audience members. while nearly 18 million people have already cast their votes, one question remains.

was anybody's mind changed after listening tonight? >> our thanks to juju. next, we'll break down the trump/biden town halls with our powerhouse political team. the surfaces in your home in 24 hours. try microban 24. spray on hard surfaces to kill 99.9% of viruses and bacteria initially. once dry, it forms a bacteria shield that keeps killing bacteria for 24 hours, even after multiple touches. try microban 24. available in multi-purpose, sanitizing, and bathroom sprays. this has been medifacts for microban 24. when why are we alwaysiful hair, shown the same thing? where's my bounce? my glamour? my fire? all hair is beautiful. these dove shampoo and conditioners are custom formulated for different hair types. find the right dove care for your hair.

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to fight these fires, we need funding - plain and simple. for this crisis, and for the next one. prop 15 closes tax loopholes so rich corporations pay their fair share of taxes. so firefighters like me, have what we need to do the job, and to do it right. the big corporations want to keep their tax loopholes. it's what they do. well, i do what i do. if you'ld like to help, join me and vote yes on prop 15. ♪ welcome back. while the president was taking voter questions tonight at a town hall in miami, joe biden took questions from uncommitted voters at a town hall in philadelphia right here at abc. a powerhouse roundtable here to weigh in. matt, let's begin with you. two very different tones tonight from both candidates. president trump aggressively tackling the issues on nbc and a

contentious town hall. joe biden with a calmer, more measured performance on abc. matt, whose approach worked, do you think? >> joe biden's by far. i mean, i think when we're in the midst of such chaos in the country and everything that's going on, from the pandemic, the economy, racial injustice, climate change, all of that, i think voters want and desire somebody more calm, considered, clear. and i think by any standard, joe biden's town hall and performance at his town hall was far more on the side of calm and clear than on the side of chaos and more division and more argument. so on that standard, which is where i think the country is today, which i why i think joe biden has the lead he does, biden won that standoff. >> the president has lost support among senior seat zens, a key group for him in 2016. he was in florida tonight. the state is a true battleground this year. rahm, how does he win back senior citizens, and why has

biden's approach to the virus resonated? >> a couple of things i would say. i'm not sure the president can do that. he's done a number of things, trying to do law and order, cultural war, telling seniors they were basically dispensable. everything he's done on covid, that is the message he's sent them. joe biden is a reassuring voice for them. he will be the first democrat since al gore in 2000 to win senior votes. here's the thing. trump made a huge mistake tonight letting joe biden have his own moment. big tactical mistake. campaigns, number one rule, you got to do everything you got to, do hope your opponent does everything they did. joe biden got a gift from donald trump today. two, chaos and confusion on one side, calm and compassion and clarity is on the other side. and that contrast, because at the end of the day, what the voters are looking for is somebody who will bring the country together. joe biden is scratching their emotional itch right now. >> president trump was evasive on the coronavirus, saying he didn't know when he took his last test before getting sick,

saying he did not remember being briefed by his national security adviser on the severity of the disease. still calling into question the effectiveness of pace raflks. sara, how is his approach on the virus playing across the country, do you think? >> i think on tone, you know, he doesn't get great marks, candidly. in part it is because he's inconsistent. that's a simple question. did you get the test on the day of the debate or not? he could have answered that. now, i will say on the substance of actually fighting the virus, on, you know, therapeutics, on record-breaking vaccine research, on making sure that the country has enough ppe and ventilators, and all the things that we need to do to help people recover from this disease when they get it, his administration has done pretty well. he would be better to talk about those things and have one very kind of clear, simple, consistent statement about how americans should protect themselves when out in public.

>> joe biden was pressed tonight on his tax plan that will raise corporate taxes and taxes on the wealthy. but critics say this could hurt the economy more than help. yvette, will this plan help or hurt biden? >> you know, i think biden was pretty clear today. i was actually glad when he reached into his jacket and pulled out the notes to make sure that he had the right numbers, even saying that wall street agrees that his plan will add more jobs. i agree that we actually improve the economy by helping those in the middle so that they have the resources to be able to push our economy up, rather than trickle-down. so i think he did a really great job, which he wasn't able to do in the debate because he kept getting interrupted. talking about, one, how much money he's going to unlock by making sure the wealthiest americans and corporations pay their fair share. also, putting more money back into middle americans and lower-wealth americans so that they have the money they need to invest in the economy and build themselves back up. so i think, actually, his plan is great. i think he did a great job of

articulating that today, using real numbers. he got real clear answers out. i think he did a wonderful job. >> donald trump declined to condemn the conspiracy movement q-anon tonight, saying he didn't know much about it. sara, why is he still not disavowing this widely discredited idea? >> he overthinks these questions sometimes, byron. he's thinking about some individual who's on the internet and reading this stuff, and they're probably a good person, but they've, for whatever reason, you know -- you know, ascribe to this philosophy. this isn't complicated. it's crazy. just say it. >> he's had similar issues in disavowing other groups, right? white supremacist groups. he comes back later and cleans it up. why, on what seems to most reasonable people, easy things to knock down, why does he continue to struggle? >> i think he turns this into a battle with the press. you know, this turns into, why would you ask me this question?

what people who are close to the president will say is he's offended by these questions. like, of course i'm against white supremacy, who's not against white supremacy? and so again, whether you want to use the word overthink, or just too confrontational, he takes the wrong lesson from the back and forth that he has on these exchanges with journalists. he should just shut it down and move on to something substantive, where i think he has a better record than joe biden on most issues. >> yvette what makes you nervous that president trump might be able to do between now and election day to pull this out? >> i don't know that donald trump is fundamentally going to change who he is, which i think is what's required for him to get out of this hole. he gets opportunities, either in debates where he's combative, or on stages by himself, where he says things he can't take back which are ridiculous. i think his key and this is what he's pushing, vote er suppressi. that's what we're fighting against. he fully intends to steal this

election. we've got battles across states, litigation happening to make sure votes are counted, they're trying to take away people's votes. i think trump in his last ditch effort, he's getting out in miami, dancing around with no mask on, trying to get his folks hyped up. but i think he knows at the end of the day the only way he wins this is if he steals it, which is why i think this amy coney barrett nomination is one way that he expects to do that. and of course all of the things that the secretaries of state who are republican who support him are doing as well. i don't think he has a chance if this is a full and fair election to win at this point. >> matt, i'll give you the last word. donald trump, shorts on fire, back against the wall, bill collector at the door. what's he do? >> at this point, hope for a mistake, which i think is one of the fundamental things by biden, hope for a fundamental mistake in this race that puts biden down, knocks biden down a few points. 18 million people have already voted. by next week 25 million people have already voted. he has less time than you think,

because this election is going to be basically decided by the friday before the last day of voting, because two-thirds of people will have voted by that friday. >> thank you all for your time. always grateful. we'll be right back with the final note. ard. eliminate who you are not first, and you're going to find yourself where you need to be. ♪ the race is never over. the journey has no port. the adventure never ends, because we are always on the way. ♪ ♪ i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi.

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♪ tomorrow on notice line, our "turning point" series on homegrown hate. lessons from the oklahoma city bombing. that's "nightline" for this evening. watch our full episodes on hulu. see you right back here, same time tomorrow. thanks for the company, america. good night.