>> building a better bay area, moving forward, finding solutions this is abc7 news. kristen: getting answers on abc seven. we talk with experts about issues important to the bay area. we get answers in real time. the holidays are here and you may be checking your list and checking it twice. but if you are a parent, considering buying the child their first phone, getting their first smartphone, how old is old enough? what is the right age? we will talk with an expert about that. also our media partners at the san francisco standard launched an investigation series into sfpd to hold officers accountable. the tickets inside officer

department centers were officers are put on desk duty. how much is the costing -- it costing taxpayers? the 10 deming -- the pandemic has brought changes to the workforce, especially for men. more men in their prime earning age are leaving the workforce. women are taking their place, moving into previously male-dominated industries. join us live is richard, senior fellow at kings institute, which -- brookings institute. thank you so much for your time. what is the boys and men project? >> it is a new project brookings institution looking at the issues you raised, including the decline in male labor force participation. what is happening with many of our men, especially with those with low levels of education? what are they doing in the labor market, what does that mean being a father?

and some of the problems boys and men face. it's to say that there are number of issues which you alluded to which are particularly important for boys and men including employment. kristen: the idea that men are left behind is connected to the new labor bureau findings that more men aged 30 to 44 have been dropping out of the workforce. do we know why? >> the honest answer is we don't know why. it's always good to have somebody to come on was a clear answer but it is still a bit of a mystery. it's a mystery after this pandemic. when the pandemic started there was concerned that this would affect women much more strongly than men. in the initial months it affected female employment much more. but what we have seen is female employment bouncing back and male employment some back slope. this is a long-standing problem. we have seen male employment

drop in the last two decades. people have been worrying about it for a long time. the pandemic was a brief interruption. if anything, we are struggling to get men back into the labor market. it's true for men with lower levels of education, getting them back in. i wish i could tell you it is because more of the men are at home caring for their kids, some are. but that remains in the single digits. unfortunately, those men are probably disabled, struggling with addiction or detached from society. these are men we should be worried about. kristen: i can see the labor force participation is dropping more for those with a high school education or less. can you give us the percentages? we were talking about 30 to 40-year-old men dropping out of the workforce, which percentages still in the workforce? if you compare the recent data to a decade ago, is that a big drop? >> yeah. these are big drops, but from high numbers. if you go back to the mid 60's,

late 60's, it was 97% men, almost all men were in the labor force. even if they were not employed they were looking for work. it's an important distinction to make. sometimes people get confused talking about unemployment. but there is a bigger issue, labor force participation. that number has dropped by eight percentage points from that high we suddenly the 1960's and 1970's. among men, with the haskell diploma, one in -- high school diploma, one and three are out of the labor force. over talking about is huge numbers of men, especially with those with less levels of education and those out of the labor force. it's not true that it is the majority of men. the majority of men are in the labor force. the minority is growing rapidly are you the pandemic doesn't interrupt that pattern. kristen: how about the women?

>> the long-standing story was an increase in labor force participation, an increase in women into male-dominated jobs. doctors, lawyers. there was a concern that the pandemic could interrupt the progress. there was this moment, a weird one, when the pandemic -- it was a weird recession. it was sharp and short. women are moving into stem roles and science technology, engineering, and into law, into engineering, medicine. during the pandemic we saw an increase in the number of women senior management roles. it looks as if, the good news, that fears of what people call the she cession. those fears seem to have been unfounded. the marsh of women onwards and upwards in the labor market seems to have continued. that is great news for everybody.

at the same time we're going back to the old the story is that the men seem to be struggling. the less educated men are struggling to keep pace. the pre-pandemic story of good news for women in the labor market, plus for men, appears to be continuing -- less for men appears to be continuing. kristen: how does this change the home life for men and women? >> one of the big changes in economics in the last two decades is the change in the relationship between men and women. today, 40% of the breadwinners in u.s. households are women. a third of wives -- 40% earn the same as the average men. these are not profound changes. all the numbers i have given you have quadrupled. you've seen this extraordinary success story of women entering the labor force, doing well in the market increasing their earnings. disproportionately affected by having kids, raising children. women are doing

traditional roles, the breadwinner and the carer, putting them under pressure. we have seen this change in the roles of men and women. in some ways, we're coming to terms with what that means. the fear is, it means more and more men will feel less incentive to remain in work and do the best work, because the old reason to do that was to be the traditional provider. in a world where that traditional provider is less needed, that is less incentive for men. there is deep cultural changes going on, we are just beginning to understand. they are out in the economy. kristen: i suppose this is tied to education. i understand these days in higher education for college applications you get more women. especially, at the elite universities but even in the science fields, a lot more women applicants. schools have a hard time keeping the 50-50 balance. a question is, some people will say if we are celebrating the

progress of women, but calling this out now, is this a takeaway? i understand you seem to feel like you could advance both at once? >> yes. i think we should pay ourselves the complement that we can think to thoughts at once. most people can. if you're a parent and you have a daughter and son. i only have sons. if you are -- have a daughter and son you want them both to flourish. you don't see it as a zero-sum game between one of them doing well. that is what societies like. it's a false choice wearing about what is happening to girls and women, there still challenges, especially in the labor market. but also worry about men, especially when they are falling behind in areas like education. i understand the reaction which is to say, are you saying, by caring about boys and men we have the care less about women and girls? the answer is an emphatic no.

there's no person out there who doesn't want the best for all of our kids, whether they are male or female. there some areas were men and went -- boys are struggling more than boys -- girls and women and vice versa. it's like choosing between your daughter and son in a societal level. kristen: well, i know i can't choose between my daughter and son. thank you so very much. i appreciate you coming up onto our program. coming up next. kids in cell phones, when should they get one? what should you do if it is on their christmas list. a tech reporter tells us whet

kristen: many parents may be considering tech gifts for their children but what is the right age to give a cell phones to their kids and how can you judge of your child is ready? joining us as heather kelly the san francisco-based tech reporter from the washington post. heather, thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. kristen: you wrote an article for the post help desk. what is that? >> it is part of our technology coverage where we try to address and fix real problems that people have, this is one we heard a lot about from parents, being lost when it came to giving kids phones and how to protect them. kristen: my kids are a little older. they both have phones. i was really not sure if i should just get it or if i should research, talk to them, or buy now, teach later. >> is one of those things that i

like to compare to giving them a car. you don't give them a car without teaching them rules of the road, how to drive. the same thing is true with phones. you want to give it to them with protections in place. you want to have conversations play before you hand over smartphone. as they learn to use it, you're helping them get more comfortable to know the dangers are. and you are letting them trust you so they come to you with questions and hopefully when they are ready they will know exactly what to do with their phones. kristen: what is the right age for getting their first phone? >> people are very passionate about this. it's completely different for every family. there is no magic answer. during the pandemic, a lot more younger kids were getting phones. now, we are seeing it happen anywhere from 10 to 14. kids, you will see a lot of them, when they enter middle school, so about six grade. kristen: i was in range. how can you tell if your kid is ready? >> so you're looking for

traditional signs of responsibility and how they are handling screen time. if you let them play video games, are they good respecting when time is up? do they show emotional issues when eternal the video games or netflix -- video games or netflix? kristen: let's say you think your child meets the criterion and you say i'm going to get one, how you choose the right device? >> you absolutely do not need to get a 10-year-old an iphone 14. kristen: i don't even have one. [laughter] >> if you have a spare one, by all means. i recommend starting with a flip phone. you can get flip phones still. there are phones specifically for kids. they are much more limited in what they can do. there are things you can start with before giving them a fully fledged unlocked big phone.

kristen: got it. sometimes parents delay giving their kids a phone because they're not ready to have conversations about cyber bullying, sexting, or privacy or misinformation they may access, how should we consider that? >> i'm stealing this from a tiktok comment i saw today. you can be the first or the last to tell them something. the ideas that you want to get ahead of those conversations and be the first person that is telling them about cyber bullying, and whether or not they will come across pornography on the internet, and what to do about strangers. you do not want to wait to have those conversations even if you wait to give them a device, they will see somebody else's phone. you cannot control their axis to the internet -- access to the internet. you want to be prepared. kristen: can we as parents demand to do random checks on their phone or say you have to have your phone password or you have to approve us if you want

us to follow you on social? >> the experts i talked to, one reasons they want to give phones earlier is that kids younger ab more open to listening to the parents. -- are more open about listening to the parents. you want to be 100% honest with them. you don't not want to track them without their approval unless you dealing with behavioral issues. you want them to trust you. so when they come into sticky situations they can come to you without any problems. you can have trust by trust by monitoring their text messages and snapchat's. kristen: you don't have to approve all of the absolute once, right? >> it is good to start with one social media app. something you can have more visibility on. something you can follow them on and teach them. as they get older, you give them more access. some experts recommend you give them more space to learn. you want them to have the

opportunity to test out extra apps and see what they are comfortable with. you give them runway with that. kristen: let us say you gave them the phone and they are using it, how can you tell it is having a negative impact on them? >> i have this wild idea. we have worked up these conversations, our kids trust us, we will ask them what they are doing on the phone. if they have any concerns, if they're worried about how their friends are,keep that line of dialogue open. you can look for classic signs of too much screen time. maybe they are just regulated, have a hard time when you take their devices away. you can par down from there. maybe we only have phones with us at certain times of the day. there are free times during -- in the house. kristen: we don't use the phone at the dinner table. sometimes i catch myself picking it up and i'm like, bad mommyu, put it away. final word of advice for kids getting a phone? >> final oh word for

final word for parents, we have to model good behavior. i once found myself hiding my phone behind a loaf of bread while eating dinner. [laughter] the best is when kids call you out. why are you always on your device? let us try to practice what we preach. it's hard. kristen: we are not perfect but let us try. heather kelly, thank you so much. i appreciate the insights. coming up next, our media partners at the san francisco standard will be here with the first look at their investigative series

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kristen: a sex scandal that rocked the san francisco police department is making headlines. you may remember of a woman, the abc 7 i-team has been covering since 2016 after learning she allegedly had sex with 29 bay

area police officers, many when she was under age. our media partner at the san francisco standard learned one sfpd officer named in the case is still making his full salary. he's been relegated to desk duty at sfpd's department operations center. you can read more about the center in this article on the standards website. it's part of their investigative series aiming to hold the department accountable. joining us live to tell us more about it is a senior reporter for the standard. thanks for your time. >> thank you for having me. kristen: the case was a bombshell for the department and other bay area police agencies. the officer, what is happened to him? he remains on the job collecting what most would consider a high salary? >> that's right. back when the scandal broke, a lot of the attention was focused on the east bay police departments. the san francisco police department also had several

officers who were alleged to have sex with the teenager. and the officer was one of them. he was named at the time. but the public didn't know much about the allegation. so, we went to court to get search warrants unsealed and found out that the teenager had said she had sex with him on three different occasions. and used drugs with him including in public. so, ever since this happened six years ago, she told the police department about this. the officer has been on desk duty at this unit called the departments operations center, making -- his salary peaked at 245,000 dollars, including benefits. kristen: does the investigation continue? >> the investigation closed. they had some legal challenges when it came to imposing discipline. my understanding is that this

spring he reached a settlement agreement with the department and was ultimately suspended after six years of this case dragging on. kristen: but he had been working at the department of operations center, which in your article, the headline because it the windowless room were sf stashes -- where sf stashes cops. tell us what it is. >> a lot of people who know about policing, didn't know that there was this one unit in particular were the department stashes officers. this is a nerve center for the police department, where they share information, the officers sit behind desks, they have the news on on a big wall of televisions. they're ans distributing bulletins. it's desk duty. it's work i am told could largely be done by a civilian.

but it's being done by many officers who have been accused of wrongdoing and who the chief wants to keep away from the public. it's a mix. there's officers there because they chose to be there. some were injured. but this is also a place where of who's who of people who have been sent there over the years. kristen: how many officers at the center? they are making more than civilians do, doing the same work. >> there something like - asked me how many are there? there 25 officers there in recent months. half of them were sent there by chiefs order, which i cannot tell you for certain means they got in trouble. but that is typically the belief. it's an indicator that someone was sent to a unit like the operations center by chiefs order, got into some sort of

trouble. kristen: you published part of an interview with a police officer who spent time there, after he was accused of hitting his wife. let's listen. >> i was there for almost 10 months. you are sitting in assessable of people who are just wallowing. there are no windows or doors, just four walls, computer screens and you are just with yourself. >> no windows? >> no. kristen: it sounds like a depressing place. other people would .2, hey you're making a salary -- would say, hey, you're making a salary. why not clear them out, put them on the streets or remove them? >> the answer is that it's hard to impose discipline against the police officer in california. officers enjoy protections under the law, under the police

officers bills of rights. it lays out a bunch of restrictions on imposing discipline. officers investigations have to be completed within a year, they have a right to a an appeal -- an appeal. if the department doesn't abide by the rules, the police union can set -- sue and cases drag on. as we saw in this case, sometimes there therefore as many as six years. so, some officers have been out, like the one you play the clip of. darius jones was there for 10 months. but that is not always the case. kristen: we are almost out of time. i have to ask you, did the chief respond? sfpd short-handed. using officers in this way, while keeping the city safe, there's a lot of questions there. >> the chief acknowledged at the police commission, he said he sends officers there who get into trouble.

he acknowledged doing that, at least. at the same time he gave a contradictory response where he said the department doesn't have rubber rooms. as i discussed in my series, what the police department with this unit is a rubber room like the ones new york city schools are notorious for having, where teachers who can be fired were cap away for -- kept away from children in a room. kristen: i encourage people to read your article so you can check it out and you can check out more of the standards original reporting on their website.

kristen: thanks so much for

joining us today. we will be here every weekday at 3:00, answering your questions from experts around the area. tonight, dangerous storms slamming the northeast right now and into tomorrow. heavy snow, ice on the highways. . the accidents already. parts of an interstate shut down. this storm bringing dangerous travel. bringing snow, ice and heavy rain from virginia to maine. it's possible that it becomes a nor'easter and across the south more than 50 reported exas tida, at leastthree dead. the reported tornado touching down in st. petersburg today. a confirmed f-3 hitting farmerville, louisiana. the latest watches and warnings at this hour. also breaking tonight, the verdict late today in the case of a former police officer accused of shooting and killing a woman in her