a better bay area. the sfmta faces a crisis unless the state steps in with additional funding but getting the funding is a whole other issue. the state wants to see an effort made by muni proving it is on the path toward being financially healthy. >> leah melendez spent a morning writing on muni to get a snapshot of the problem. a rather eye-opening experience. >> let me tell you. >> not in a good way. >> i had to see it to believe it. so many people have, to be to explain a lot ofeoide on muni. even people who can pay say they do not because why should the. -- why should they. it is not like we spent weeks on the story. what we saw is only a snapshot of the problem. on this clear san francisco morning, we decided to ride on the oldest publicly operated transit system in america, muni.

paying of course using my clipper card. it is reassuring to see that most muni lines are back to near pre-pandemic levels. also encouraging is this recent statement by the executive director of the san francisco municipal transportation agency who oversees muni. >> most people are still paying just as they did pre-covid. >> paying did he say? because we had our doubts we decided to record who paid and who did not. here rico. these two women did not pay. neither did he. no. this couple walked right on without paying. this man for some reason his clipper card never worked. too busy talking on the phone. no. no. this passenger paid with her clipper card at the person behind her did not.

no. no. no. and now. -- and one more no. that is $12 and $.50 muni did not collect from those five people. we estimated about three quarters of the people who got on the bus never paid. a driver told me a good day for her is when 40% of passengers pay. >> if i were really did not have anything to pay with i would do the same thing. >> some are candid about the reason for not paying. >> i think post-pandemic is kind of like the norm as far as i have seen. especially when it goes up and down market. people don't pay so i don't know. >> jeffrey clarified there are other ways to pay that perhaps we did not catch on camera.

>> what we have done is invented new fair instruments. you can download muni mobile and pay with your phone right then paying with your clipper card. >> do you use the mobile up? >> no. >> we finally found a passenger using muni mobile. an honest law-abiding tourist who had a one-day pass on his phone. so you paid using the app? >> yes. >> there are people who feel that because others are not paying why should i. >> absolutely. that is the reason. >> that attitude shift is what in's ecology is often referred to as crowd behavior. >> we still try to pay our fair as much as we can but it gets to a point where it is like -- what is the point? >> because bus drivers have been assaulted in the past for trying to collect a fair it is understandable they don't engage with anyone who refuses to pay.

that is the responsibility of the fair inspectors who are supposed to ask passengers to show proof of payment. >> we have transit inspectors every day collecting the data about who is paying. >> wenham is the last time you sell an enforcement officer on muni? >> i would say probably a year ago. on a muni train. not on a bus. >> here's the problem with not paying. transit fares represent 18% of revenue or about $219 million. that is part of the reason why muni had a $134 million deficit in 2022. too many numbers for you you say? perhaps you will be interested in knowing how muni is seriously thinking about addressing this shortfall. listen up because this will likely affect you. extend the hours of parking

meters on weekdays to include nights and on sundays. that is 28,000 parking meters that could potentially be active on sundays. >> that would bring in an extra $80 million a year. enough to save three muni lines. >> other proposals include expanding neighborhood parking permits, increased taxes on offstreet parking in downtown garages. and another idea that circulated in the past is downtown congestion pricing. except after the pandemic downtown has been slow to recover. so many proposals out there. why not do something simple like enforce fares? >> we should enforce fares but fair evasion is a small piece of the problem and even if we had 100% compliance that would not solve this problem so we the state to help out. >> the federal stimulus money's that have kept muni afloat are expected to run up. as of muni is hoping the state

will provide short-term relief funds. . if not the transit agency may have to scale back muni to pandemic levels of service when only 40% of routes were up and running should >> so many people are riding muni and bart right now and we cannot have them fall apart. >> muni says 70% of passengers make less than $50,000 a year. we can only assume because many are not able to afford a car muni as their only option so who is going to be affected here? seniors, students, people with disabilities, people of color. the solution they say according to scott weiner is ridership has to go up by a lot on muni and bart to >> that is not fixing the problem. we have more people on the system so the percentage of people that are paying will go up but we are still not addressing people not paying. >> we are always going to have a deficit if things do not change.

>> we will make people who park their car on the street pickup. >> until they do not want to come because they don't want to pay at night. >> thank. >> federal investigators are heading to the scene of a plane crash near rio vista. solano county authorities say two people are dead as a result of this crash. video from sky 7 shows the damaged plane partially covered by a tent. investigators say the aircraft was a single engine experimental aircraft. it went down near rio vista municipal airport before noon. are adding a new law-enforcement unit trying to crack down on people who sell and use illegal drugs in the open. the sheriff's office is deploying deputies from its emergency services unit to its troubled areas. the team includes more than 130 deputies. all of them specially trained to handle situations that require intervention and higher levels of awareness.

they will join an effort underway for more than a month involving police, chp and the national guard. >> developments in the case involved with the suspects of shooting jasper would. each faces a prison sentence of well over a hundred years if convicted. neither entered a plea. they are due back in court next month. alameda county d.a. pamela price dropped special circumstances from the murder charges wednesday. that means the men no longer face life without parole if convicted. they would not face the death penalty if california were to resume executions. they are accused of shooting jasper by mistake as they tried to shoot a rival gang member on interstate 880 in oakland november 2021. >> we expect major developments today in nevada over the sag of the a's stadium. so far hurry up and wait. state legislates letters that

state legislators are expected to meet today. has been a lot of pushback. suzanne phan joining us in the newsroom with a closer look. >> day two of the special session was scheduled to start at 11:30 this morning after a marathon by the session yesterday. as we continued to wait for it to get underway here is what we know. of the most outspoken critic so far has been nevada senator nguyen. already vetoed initiatives that would offer money for summer school and family paid leave because of the cost. the a's proposed to pi put up a new baseball stadium on the las vegas strip. the 30,000 seat stadium would require hundreds of millions of dollars in public funding. lawmakers did not take up a funding bill in the regular

session so the nevada governor called a special session to discuss and vote on a three to $80 million financing package. lawmakers met late into the night wednesday without voting should they are scheduled to return thursday for further discussion but there is talk lawmakers are considering several possible amendments. tourism authorities say new stadium would add to a growing sports scene in las vegas but critics including lawmakers and economists worry about the cost and some say there would be minimal public benefit. one major opponent said if this team wants to build a stadium there billionaire owner can build it with his own money. the failure by lawmakers to vote on funding has given oakland officials and a's fans hope for keeping the a's in the bay area. mayor sheng thao said the city of oakland and the a's were close to reaching a deal in april and she is willing to restart negotiations with the team should i know mlb has this

great concept of wanting to diversify its fan base. we need a baseball team. we deserve a baseball team and we want the oakland a's to be routed here whether it is with this current ownership or new ownership should >> the mayor told casey pratt if the a's come back to the negotiating table construction on a new ballpark at howard terminal could begin in two years. we have been waiting for more than four hours for the session to start. as the day drags on there are questions about whether that will happen at all. moments ago a reporter with the nevada independent tweeted her sources say the vote will not come today. we will be monitoring developments. >> a landmark change to the u.s. constitution. he is calling for a 28th amendment. introducing with the governor considers common sense gun regulations. those include universal background checks and age restrictions.

dustin dorsey has more on how the proposal is being received. >> half moon bay, san jose, gilroy. a few cities impacted by devastating mass shootings in the bay area in the past few years. governor newsom said prayers for those affected are not enough. he wants action. >> today i am proposing a 28th amendment to the united states constitution to do just that. >> if approved governor newsom says the 20th amendment would require universal background checks, raise the firearm purchase age to 21, instituted a firearm purchase waiting period and bar the civilian purchase of assault weapons. >> this will guarantee states the ability to enact common sense gun safety laws while leaving the second amendment in tact. >> this announcement was met with criticism. california assembly reblican leader james gallagher said newsom's proposal is a poorly thought out attention seeking stunt the citizens committee for the right to keepear arms said meanwhile if he truly

respected the nation's tradition of private gun ownership he would not attack it by pushing this in santa clara county district attorney jeff rosen said this could be a step in the right direction should >> i think it is tough to amend the constitution. it has been designed that way. . i think having a conversation about gun violence in our country will move us in a direction of more commonsense measures to reduce the incredible violence caused by guns. >> the county has already taken steps to do that. today supervisor cindy chavez shared a report about gun violence revenge and programs end the county and the emotional and financial cost of gun violence. > if we cannot rely on the federal government to create rules and regulations that will govern the entire country we don't have a choice to do all we can to protect people who live, work and play in california. >> governor newsom says he is aiming for california to be the first date to call for a constitutional convention. >> coming up, the new jobs

report suggesting the death of downtown san francisco is greatly exaggerated. also the smoky skies back east and the urgent warning going to millions of americans. plus of the eye team taking into a war over an abandoned plot of real estate. neighbors collette no man's island. cyberattacks on public infrastructure threaten the institutions we all rely on. major enterprises around the world, healthcare companies, energy companies, small businesses, governments.

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> the death of downtown san francisco may be greatly exaggerated. new employment statistics tell a different story. according to the chronicle about 559,000 people are working in the city as of april this year. that is 8000 more than april of 2022. in employment rate for san francisco is 2.7%. tech remained strong with more than 340,000 employees in this number includes south san francisco as well as redwood city. >> now to have the smoke from the canadian wildfires impacting many eastern parts of the country. at least a dozen states are experiencing dangerous air quality as underage of wildfires continue to burn. reena roy with details from new york. >> urgent warnings from officials across the northeast as millions of americans face smoky conditions for the third day in a row.

down their guard and become complacent because we have to be prepared for the winds to shift. this is the unknown. we are tracking the large plume. >> the large plume descending upon new york city creating an eerie dystopian glow wednesday. >> we live in one of the most beautiful places to see the new york city skyline and you cannot see it. >> massive skyscrapers barely visible and you the thick orange haze. low visibility delaying flights at new york city airports. officials urging people to stay indoors and if not mask up preferably with a high quality mask. yorks governor says they will be distributing a million n95 masks. >> this is our old friend. the one you never one you never want to see again perhaps but this mass can make a difference. >> in washington, d.c. official shutting down the zoo and major league baseball officials postponing the nationals game. air-quality warnings from st. louis to boston. new jersey's largest school

district canceling classes thursday pair the governor redoing calls for action when it comes to climate change. >> climate change is here and unfortunately this is our new reality. the disturbing orange haze in the sky. . the smell. of smoke and the burning in our throats those are clear warning signs the status quo cannot continue. >> in canada where the smoke is coming from the fires keep burning. >> i usually break out in tears talking about it. destroyed so far. in the u.s. we are expecting to see relief on friday and over the weekend. the winds will shift and hopefully move the smoke away from the country. we had a couple years ago. -- the arm skies we had a couple years ago. it is unbelievable to witness that. >> and it is hanging there for way too long. >> fortunately today is a love better than yesterday. cleaner air

the next 48 hours. this is washington, d.c. you can see the smoke is still lingering in the atmosphere right now. believe it or not the unhealthy category that most cities are in is actually a huge improvement compared to yesterday. yesterday afternoon some cities like new york running the hazardous category. the pm 2.5 levels were exceeding 400. . as a rico about future smoke forecast improving conditions overnight for new york city. by saturday we will see stronger winds help to thin out the smoke. by saturday afternoon we should see a lot less smoke across the mid-atlantic and northeast. pedicure at home we are good to go for the foreseeable future. it is green. it is good. a lovely picture from our emeryville camera. skies will turn mostly cloudy overnight as a marine layer

surges inland. tomorrow we will get sunshine in the afternoon for partly cloudy conditions. the extended pattern through next week will keep temperatures a bit below average for this time of the year. today we are warmer than yesterday. it is very comfortable. mid and upper 70's in our warmest spot. 77 in napa. 72 in san jose. the city coming in at 63 degrees. here is live doppler 7. mostly sunny skies overhead. thunderstorms around south lake tahoe. we will see less thunderstorm activity tomorrow as an area of low pressure pushes to the east. tonight turning mostly cloudy. lows falling into the 50's. you will need the extra layer first thing out the door. a bit breezy tomorrow. future tracker wind gusts shows you it is 10 to 20 miles per hour for your lunchtime our. into the afternoon and evening we will see gust over 30 miles per hour at times. breaking down your friday we

will have the morning marine layer giving way to partly cloudy skies. temperatures mainly in the 60's and 70's. a few degrees cooler tomorrow than we are right now. 65 in oakland. 62 in the city. 72 in san jose. mid 70's instead of the upper 70's tomorrow. six t9 in santa rosa. 66 in richmond. . the accuweather 7-day forecast. breezy and a little bit cooler tomorrow. heading into the weekend we will call this pleasant. upper 70's inland. lots of afternoon sunshine. by middle part of next week we will call it close to average for this time of year. 80's inland. . we should be in the mid 80's in our warmest spots this time of year. >> it is good to see you. >> that kind of feels like when you go back to your childhood home. it is comforting to be back here. >> so glad you feel that way. >> we love seeing you in the mornings but it is great having you in the afternoon. >> do need coffee? >> know i will be in bed in three hours.

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you can choose your doctor who works with other best-in-class specialists to care for all that is you. >> time now for consumers. >> michael finney is here with the headline starting with text message scandals. >> that is all that is in my inbox now. >> that is so sad. >> i will stop texting you.

that was me. >> fake text messages from scammers impersonating your bank is the most common text scam according to the ftc, federal trade commission. reports of impersonators have increased 20 times since 2019. most are in-person and big inks like bank of america and wells fargo. consumers lost $330 million to these scams. 2022 and twice that the year before. if you get one of those texts don't respond. go to your bank's official website or mobile app to confirm this there has been any business activity on your account. we are hearing from an expert from scam apps. those are malicious apps capable of stealing your money and personal information right from your device.

>> scam apps can come in letterforms. they can be disguised as a game. lately we have been seeing chatgpt themed. it could be looking for your personal information. it could be looking for money. it could be looking to fleece consumers making them pay subscriptions they don't need. >> here are some tips to spot these scam apps. you will want to read what the app requests access to. don't just grant these requests. often you will see it is your camera. be wary a app does not have many reviews but it seems like it should because it might be a knockoff. a fake name that sounds like a real company. look for typos and check the icon as well. you should also go to your settings to see which apps you are subscribing to and paying for. some may offer a free trial and then charge when a certain time is a. a new survey says the average

cost for a wedding is now drumroll please, father of two girls, $29,000. that is up a last year. a website says getting married and a big city will cost a lot more. the average cost for a wedding in the bay area, $37,000 and 43,500 in new york to percent reported feeling overwhelmed by setting a wedding budget. i'm overwhelmed hearing about it. that is a lot of money. >> vegas chapel looking pretty good these days. >> am i a bad parent if i say you can elope? >> just ahead on abc7news, the battle over no man's land. >> nobody touches anybody. >> a land war in san francisco. the i team looking into the years long neighborhood squabble

that turned violent. on the air at this hour with major developments in the special counsel's investigation into former president donald trump. abc news has confirmed at this hour that donald trump and his lawyers have just been informed about 20 minutes ago that the former president needs to be at a federal court in miami on tuesday at 3 p.m. to be processed on federal charges. this, of course, would be the first president ever to be indicted on federal charges. i want to bring in several members of our investigative team, beginning with katherine faulders, our senior reporter. and, katherine, what are your sources telling you as far as the number of counts at this point? and the range of what's being charged here? david, we're learning from our sources that there appears to be at least seven counts here. this ranges from everything from the willful retention of national defense

information to conspiracy to a scheme to conceal two false statements and representations of obviously, this is part of a years long, more than years long investigation by special counsel jack smith and trump's efforts to obstruct the government to give documents in his possession with classification markings back to government investigators who at multiple times throughout this investigation have tried to retrieve them from trump. they still have questions about whether trump still currently has classified documents in his possession. but again, we're learning that at this hour, we're told by our sources that there are at least seven counts here, and they range from everything from willful retention of national defense information to conspiracy to concealing documents of record. david. katherine faulders, our senior investigative reporter with our investigative unit, again reporting just moments ago that donald trump, the former president, and his lawyers have

been told to appear in a federal court in miami next tuesday, 3 p.m. is the time, we're told, but we're still reporting this out. catherine's reporting so far, at least seven counts. again, our team working on this, at least seven counts ranging from obstruction to willful retention ion to conspiracy to also part of the initial reporting on what could be coming from the special counsel. i want to get right to our chief justice correspond, pierre thomas, working his sources over at the justice department. and pierre, what are you learning from the people you're talking with? well, david, we have been told by sources who have been following the case that trump is expected to appear on tuesday to be processed in connection with these charges. and we've been told by multiple sources that the special counsel has specifically been focusing on efforts to illegally retain classified documents and producing evidence to show that trump also willfully trump also willfully obstructed

the government's efforts to get those documents back. and, david, i can put this in perspective. this is perhaps one of the most consequential investigations the justice department has done in recent memory. we're talking about investigating a former president who's seeking to be reelected. they knew this was one of the most consequential cases they've ever pursued. and i'm told that they have built a case month by month to produce compelling evidence to lay out in detail what trump did in terms of taking the documents from the white house and then what he did in response to a government subpoena to return those documents. now, we're also being told that law enforcement sources will be stepping up security in and around that courthouse in miami because they don't know quite what the response will be. but again, clearly a very consequential moment. and we'll be hearing more in the coming hours and days. david appeared just stick with me here, because i know your sources are telling you multiple counts. catherine's reporting, at least seven counts

at this hour. and pierre, as you know now, these counts range from obstruction in conspiracy, willful retention of documents pertaining to the national defense. what does this tell you? it would seem it involves more than just the former president. when you hear conspiracy being listed as one of these potential multiple counts here. when you look at the case that they previously laid out in terms of the affidavit for the search warrant, in terms of why they went in, it was clear that the government had indications that there were people working with the president to perhaps move documents, hide documents. there's a key moment that we've been reporting on for some weeks , david, where apparently after receiving the subpoena, the trump and his associates knew that federal prosecutors were going to come to mar a lago. and apparently there's surveillance footage from the room where some of these documents were being held in which someone is seen taking the documents out the day

before. and the prosecutors were supposed to get there. and also, david, here's another key thing. well, you know that the one of the attorneys for former president trump issued a statement provided to doj saying , as far as they knew, all the documents had been provided, the fbi then gets a tip that there were still more documents there at mar a lago. and then when they did that consequential raid , they found more than 100 classified documents. david okay. pierre thomas as soon as you learn more from your sources, pierre, just raise your hand there and we'll come right back to you again at this hour, we are on the air. abc news live coverage. former president donald trump has been informed he and his attorneys have been informed of the special counsel will hand down an indictment in this case after months long investigation lasting actually more than a year here into the handling of classified documents discovered at mar a lago. we are told at this hour, multiple counts. this involves, he's been told to appear in federal court 3 p.m. on tuesday. i want to bring in john santucci. also

with the investigative unit. john, of course, covered donald trump for years when he was president. right. and john, as to be expected, we wondered if this would happen. and it has played out. the former president confirming himself that he and his attorneys have been informed . and he writes that i have been indicted, david, a very lengthy post from donald trump on his social media platform, truth, social. it's extremely long. he goes on to say he never thought this was possible. he calls it a dark day. but david, i can tell you from my sources that have been around the former president for much of the last week, they very much thought this was possible. they have been huddled in bedminster, new jersey, where the former president spends his summers waiting for this today. they have been anxious. they were watching news coverage yesterday of trump's former spokesperson, taylor budowich, going before that grand jury down in southern florida. and, david, that a bit of a mystery to the trump team. you know, they've been watching friends, allies and now enemies of the former president go before a grand jury in washington, d.c.

that's been hearing the presentations by special counsel jack smith for the better part of a year, but only up until the last couple of days. few weeks even did team trump learn about this other grand jury. and we believe, david, as we reported here on your show last night, it was when team trump received that target letter in just the last couple of weeks that they were told by special counsel jack smith that the former president was indeed a target of that investigation. i am told by my sources that the president for the last couple of days has just been waiting for this, knowing it was coming. he joked to one aide, another one, of course, referring to his first indictment in manhattan earlier this year. and we know that they are already planning a trip down to miami. david we are told from one source that they are looking at some sort of a campaign event around and thinking that another indictment will do something better for donald trump's chances. at a third bid at the white house. i want to go back,

john, to that one point you made. we reported here on world news tonight just earlier this week about that letter that donald trump received. he and his lawyers, i think to a lot of our viewers, that would sound almost obvious. after months and months of reporting on this investigation. but that was essentially there sort of official signal from the special counsel that this could very well be coming. and now it's played out tonight. the official signal for sure, david. i mean, a target letter from a federal prosecutor lets you know that you are indeed just that you are a target. we are looking to indict you on charges. but obviously, david, as you note, it's not a surprise ties between the many people that have gone before the grand jury, the many people that received document retention letters for subpoenas. and let's not forget, david, federal investigators have been to donald trump's home at mar a lago multiple times. and obviously the big one we all saw nearly a year ago last august, where federal agents raided mar a lago looking for documents, looking for records. and as our team has reported, they found hundreds. david johnson, touchy.

stick with us here. and again, john, as soon as you learn more, just let me know. we'll come back to you. i want to bring in our chief legal analyst, dan abrams, following all of this really every step of the way with us. and dan, first question for you. when you hear that he's been told to show up tuesday afternoon in federal court in miami in florida, what does the venue tell you? what more can we glean from this? so to what is in washington, dc? and then back to john and we'll come back to dan abrams in just a moment, as soon as we get the audio figured out there. john. karl also standing by with me, john, our chief washington correspondent. john, we know the venue will play a major role, but the question i wanted to ask you really is a much bigger picture here, because i don't want people to grow numb to these headlines that seem to come almost daily. this is something we have not seen before. the first time a former president has been indicted on federal charges. and again, it's the former president himself. tonight who says, i have been told that i have been indicted. david, it's true. be an historic moment. but donald trump, as you

mentioned, is the first president, former president of the united states, to be indicted on federal charges. he's also this is also the second time a former president has been indicted, period. the first time was also donald trump indicted on local charges. the manhattan district attorney indicting him on charges related to hush money payments to stormy daniels. and we also know that a grand jury is very active in fulton county, georgia, looking to bring state charges against donald trump related to his efforts to overturn the presidential elections in the state of georgia. so think about this, david. you have a former president of the united states, currently a candidate for president. again who is now under indictment on state and local and federal charges and possibly soon also on state charges. truly an historic moment and compounded by the fact that as he campaigns now for the president, see for the

third time to get back to the white house, he has made fighting back against these charges the centerpiece of his campaign, his campaign slogan at this point is i am your retro action. that is his message to his supporters. he tells his supporters that prosecutor are going after him because what they really want to do is go after them. um, so, yes, he is looking he is battling for his political life here. he may be battling for his freedom. these are serious charges that that could mean a serious jail time. but as he is doing it, he is making it the centerpiece of his presidential campaign. and in the short term, john, it might help, you know, cultivate support from his the core group of supporters who continue to follow him and believe in him, at least in the short term. when you hear reports from john earlier, john santucci and others, that he might hold a rally in florida right around

this tuesday appearance in federal court, the short term, it might help, but over the long haul, when you talk about an indictment already here in new york city, in the hush money case and now a federal indictment from the special counsel, jack smith, that is an unanswered question. how the american people are going to feel and what they're going to think as they watch this unfold and how it affects him as a presidential candidate in new york. they have set a trial date. david for the end of march next year. that's in the midst of the republican presidential primaries. we'll see what happens here. we know there's a court appearance, an initial court appearance next tuesday, but when is this trial and when potentially is a trial? if there is an indictment in georgia, he may be spending more time in courtrooms defending himself against, again, six, six charges than he is able to spend on the campaign trail. so how will the american people respond to that? how will he campaign around that ? and how do the other republican shows handle it? you

know, we now are seeing an increasingly crowded field of presidential candidates willing to stand up. republicans has to stand up and say that they are going to run against donald trump with the latest edition entrance to the race and his own vice president and former new jersey governor chris christie, once one of his most prominent supporters. so republicans not all of them for sure, but but some prominent republicans are now standing up and telling republican voters that it is time to turn the page from the trump era. no question the republican campaigns are watching these developments very closely tonight and trying to decipher what their strategy is moving forward, how to handle all of this. john karl, our thanks to you as always. dan abrams now with us back with us on the phone here. dan, a couple of really important legal questions to help guide our viewers at home. when you heard that this appearance is 3 p.m. tuesday in miami federal court, what is the venue tell you? so that's a very significant point

on where the crimes occurred. there are two grand juries. there's one in washington, d.c. there's one in florida. and one of the reasons that the one in florida was so significant is because you generally have to charge a crime where it occurred . and they are alleging that these crimes occurred at mar a lago. and so that is why you have this grand jury in florida . now, i would say something else about the totality of the counts here. there were a lot of possible crimes that were being investigated here, illegal retention of documents, the possible crime with regard to retaining national defense information, obstruction of justice being one of the most important ones, it seems, based on the information we have right now, that he's been charged in connection with all of them, that in effect, the book has been thrown at him with regard to all of these counts. now, the most significant thing we need

to wait for is exactly what is the evidence, what do they have? there's been a lot of reporting out there about possible audio tapes, possible witnesses who are going to come forward, possible people who were at mar a lago, the devil is going to be in the details here, i think, on convincing the american public one way or the other. it's very easy for people who are against donald trump to just celebrate the indictment. it is very easy for people who want to support donald trump to just say, well, this is a witch hunt. the critical point is going to be what do they have? what's the proof? what's the evidence? what can they present in court? and that is the thing. we're still going to have to wait for until we can see the specifics surrounding this indictment. and dan, so many people point to the other classified document cases that are front and center in the news as well. well, you know, mike pence classified documents found at his indiana home. you remember i was interviewing him

at his home right after news broke of the search at mar a lago. and i asked him if he took any classified documents with him when he left the white house and he said no. he said it was a mistake publicly that he was surprised himself that documents were found. he's been cleared. now, that was reported by us and other outlets in the last couple of days. and of course, there's this ongoing look at current president, president biden, and the classified documents discovered in his possession along the way as well. now again, as you point out, dan, it's going to be very important to see what they lay out, whether or not this is a speaking indictment. once we see it, that will help explain the narrative of what they found to the american people, really on all sides of this, no matter where you stand. but at least initially, dan, given the fact that mike pence was cleared and that the special counsel in this case, a very different case, is moving forward with federal charges, just help viewers at home understand the very obvious differences just from the public reporting on these cases so far . yeah, yeah. putting aside for a moment exactly what the

documents were putting aside making comparisons between which documents were more sensitive, et cetera. as a legal matter, it's the intentionality of the conduct. remember there was a subpoena here issued for specific documents. documents with classic fide markings on them. that's what the subpoena said. a federal subpoena in may saying hand over all of the documents that you have with classified markings. prosecutors here in effect saying not only did he not do that, but if there is a cspiracy charge here as well. so they knew that they weren't doing it. they were in inntionally not turning over these documents. we'll see what evidence they have, if any, of an intentional effort to hide documents. but it is the intentionality of the conduct that is a legal matter makes such a difference here between someone, an inadvertently act

evidentally mistakenly retaining a document regarding of its level of classification. that will be something else. we'll have to think about is there are different levels of classified station, but it's the intention of the conduct that makes this completely different. and let me ask you this. it might be a difficult question to answer at this point, dan, but is there any sense of relief in trump world and in bedminster tonight when they learned of the venue that it will be florida and not washington, d.c, where he has to show up, given the fact that there has been some speculation, legal observers have said that perhaps he would be able to sit before a more slightly more sympathetic jury, if you will. no doubt about it. no doubt that donald trump would rather have this case in florida than in washington, d.c, more sympathetic potential judges, more sympathetic potential jurors, was a more sympathetic

public in the whole in florida. but i don't think there was much choice here. i mean, if the prosecutors had a choice, meaning if they could just say, oh, well, we'd like to prosecute this in washington, dc, they would much prefer to prosecute it in washington, dc for the same reason that donald trump would prefer it happen in florida. but as a legal matter, it is the correct thing to do to do it in florida, where the alleged crime occurred. dan abrams, our chief legal analyst, with us here tonight following the breaking news at this hour that former president donald trump has been indicted. the former president acknowledging so himself through his social media tonight. and as we've reported here from the get go, katherine faulders was the first to report that at least seven counts. our investigative team believes and again, we've put the categories of these charges up on the screen, though the exact detail we have yet to confirm, but broad range obstruction, willful retention

and conspiracy, expect to be part of these charges. these at least seven counts that the former president has been told to appear in federal court in miami on tuesday. as you heard dan abrams saying there, a lot of speculation that there might be some relief in trump world given that the venue will be in florida, given his support from many in florida. i want to bring in aaron katersky, who is in florida as well tonight as we break this story. and aaron, talk about, as you so carefully did when you were back here in manhattan during the indictment involving the hush money case. this is obviously a much different level. these are federal charges, the first time we have ever seen this as a country, a former president indicted at the federal level, what will this country see play out come tuesday afternoon when the former president has been told to show up a much different kind of case, david, but a very similar process. and once the

former president arrives here at the federal courthouse in downtown miami on tuesday, it will mark an extraordinary moment for the united states because trump will be placed under arrest by the very government he was once elected to lead. once he is formally arrested, trump will be booked and processed as a federal defendant. and then he will appear before a judge to enter a not guilty plea to the criminal charges that you've outlined. and then perhaps we will understand the full scope of what the former president is facing and how potentially he he may start to go about defending himself. all day today, we saw evidence that the grand jury had been nearing this moment, david. we saw members of special counsel jack smith's team going into and out of the room where the grand jury has been hearing evidence there. exact process has been kept secret, but now we know it has culminated in this indictment and the former president will be here on tuesday to answer the charges.

david, an extraordinary scene the country will watch unfold come tuesday. aaron katersky in florida for us tonight. aaron, thank you. i want to bring in our political director, rick klein. rick, you know, i always come back to you with this question. and the reason i do it is because i think this is a question people at home have every single time one of these headlines of this magnitude actually breaks involving the former president. this time actually, we have never seen this unchartered territory. but there's nothing that says that a former president who's been indicted at the federal level charged and that he would not be able to run for office and even if and this is i don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but even if there's some sort of conviction at the end of this long process, what are the ramifications if you're running for president? yeah, there is no federal law. there's no constitutional provision that allows us that prevents someone from running for president of the united states, even if they are currently behind bars. in fact, in 1920, we had a socialist candidate for president who was serving a prison sentence and got almost a

million votes. you have to go back that far for any kind of precedent. and as you said, we're a long way from any of that. but look, there's also evidence that the last legal case brought against him may have bolstered his standing. donald trump only doing better in the primaries since then. our poll from about a month ago, david, showed that about 54% of americans thought that he deserved to face criminal charges in this case. about classified documents. but that same poll had a numeric advantage for trump versus biden. so it may be that a lot of this information is already out there. and we saw donald trump tonight set a fundraising appeal within about 15 minutes of breaking the news of his own indictment. he is asking people to raise money. there's no doubt in my mind that it will be a successful appeal, because if we know anything about donald trump is that his base is extremely loyal. but again, the bottom line, rick, that even though we're now witnessing a former president being indicted on federal charges, the federal level, he can still run for president and nothing stops him . nothing stops him. it becomes practically harder because he has to make court dates as john karl was mentioning, the timeline here is very inconvenient, but he is allowed to run for president even while under indictment. even even if

he were to be convicted. rick klein, our political director, rick, thank you as always. i want to bring in rachel scott. she is live in iowa, which tells you she's already out on the campaign trail covering the race for the white house. rachel, i come to you because i know you've been reporting on all of the other republican candidates. it's now somewhat crowded field. we know that mike pence entered the fray this week. officially, he went so far as to say his former boss should never be president again, should never be allowed to be president again. chris christie in the race as well. the former new jersey governor who right out of the gate took on donald trump and by name. i gather all of these campaigns tonight are watching this play out and deciding what their next steps will be and how far they'll go. exactly, david. but right now, i could tell you that most of this very crowded republican field is walking a fine line. you heard trump's own former vice president mike pence say that he's unfit to serve again, calling out the former president directly and by name when he launched his

presidential campaign this week. but just hours ago, i had an opportunity to press pence on whether or not a former president who is facing multiple investigations best represents the future of the republican party. and while pence told me that he believes there needs to be new leadership, he says that an indictment would further divide the country, but still says that no one should be above the rule of law. you have former new jersey governor chris christie. he says that an indictment does not look good for any political candidate, but is still waiting to see sort of how this all plays out. so far in this very crowded field of 12 republican candidates, only one candidate, former arkansas governor asa hutchinson, has come out and said that indictments of a former president should be enough reason for them to step aside. but we know that trump is as defiant as ever. in fact, david, i can tell you right now his campaign is already fundraising off of this news. rachel scott in iowa covering the race for president. and what will undoubtedly be a very strong and powerful dynamic in the days, weeks and months ahead. how all

the other candidates now handle this, who are trying to get that republican nomination and having to get through donald trump to get there. i want to bring in terry moran tonight. and, terry, it's a question i haven't been able to ask anyone yet. and this is bigger picture when it comes to the special counsel here, jack smith. there has been so little that's been leaked from this special counsel investigation. of course, we haven't even heard from him. when you see the range of charges and i've been really careful here because obviously we don't have the document in front of us. we just know at least seven counts. we know the range of these charges. but when you see how significant these charges are and a special counsel who knows the weight of history here in this decision, what does that say about the evidence they may or may not have? to me, david, it shows that this prosecutor, jack smith , must believe that he has the evidence to make these convictions because he knows this target is unprecedented in our history. and he has demonstrated it by not whispering a word to the press

that that office just did not leak, that he would do it by the book and amass this evidence with care, with the with the rigor that that is expected of federal prosecutors and that he has a reputation for. because that's the only way this thing becomes normal. and by that i mean it is an extraordinary his historic circumstance, the indictment of a former president by the justice department that he once led, as aaron pointed out. but it is going to become an ordinary criminal case in federal court. it must for justice to be done. equally. there are hundreds, more than 1500 done every year. and what we can expect is he will have access to all of the documents. donald trump will that and all of the evidence that will be used against him as any other criminal defendant is he has a right to a speedy trial in 70 days if he wants it. and he might or he might waive it. this is the saving grace of the

american system, is that it will get put into the courts where the people who do this every day for a living, including trump's own lawyers, are going to handle it the way every other case is handled, that that is the only way that the country will have confidence in the outcome of this case, no matter how it goes . but what this tells me is that jack smith has done his homework and is ready to proceed now. no matter who the target is. and as we focus on jack smith here for a moment, terry, thank you. i want to bring back in pierre thomas, who has just learned from his sources that this will be and you heard me mention this earlier, this question of whether or not this would be a speaking indictment, which essentially means will all the special counsel lay out in narrative detail what they've uncovered and why they believe what they've uncovered is truly significant here? and pierre, you've learned that's exactly what they plan to do. david i've been told to expect a speaking indictment, to lay out chapter and verse. what took place because they understand that this is a historic case. they

understand who's involved and they know that they have a responsibility to give the american public explain asset detail of what they know. now, i've been talking to sources for months and weeks now, and they have told me that the evidence amassed by the fbi is compelling and in some cases devastating. and one of the things that we can see by the conspiracy charges, although we've not yet seen the specifics, is that that speaks to the fact that there were other people allegedly working with trump to conceal and keep these documents from the federal government. and the key here is that some of those people likely have become witnesses. david pierre, thank you. i want to bring back in dan abrams because, dan, i know so much of this depends on the venue. the judge who oversees all of this as it plays out. but is there a chance and i'm asking for those who are watching at home, is there a chance that this all plays out during this election cycle so that voters can witness the evidence, witness what a potential jury finds in this case? could we see

this done actually before the 2024 election? i think it's likely that it would happen before the 2024 election. but remember, a lot of that power remains with the defendant himself. the defendant has a lot of ability to delay or move things more quickly if he wants . so we're going to have to see exactly what donald trump decides and his legal team that they want to do about the timing here. but no question that this could all all be tried and resolved before the november 20th, 24 election. and again, we always talk political calculation when it comes to donald trump, but we're talking about very serious charges here. dan abrams, he's also has to take into account the real possibility that with these kinds of charges you're talking about the potential prison time possibilities here. if there's a conviction and. absolutely. and i think this is a very different case than the new york case, both factually and politically. i think that we talk a lot about, well, there was the new york case also. i really do

believe that case becomes secondary to this case. this one becomes much more significant tonight. if jack smith has the kind of evidence that pierre is talking about, it becomes a much more overwhelming one. and this is where politics and law intersect. it may be in this case, they can convince the public as well. dan abrams, our thanks to you and for those of you watching, as we learned we came on the air shortly after 7:00 eastern, a former president, donald trump, has been indicted on federal charges. the first time we've ever seen this at least seven counts. our coverage continues. abc news live abcnews.com. we go back to programing. good night >>