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is something we ever to talk about. westfield says it is surrendering its san francisco space. common security method. that, but first the big story former president donald trump appearing in court today and pleading not guilty to federal charges. let's dig into that. with us is our political as well as abc 7 insider. react to how significant is this? >> it's historic, significant,

something we have never seen before and like to never seem again. 37 counts of federal charges relating to the handling of classified documents. i would also like to what didn't happen. there were not riots. they expected explosion of support for the former or cities shut down scenes at the courthouse did not happen. we had the usual collection of people making statements, making flags and things like that but america as a nation and as a democracy and rule of law proceeded one more step. that is heartening. this will definitely have an impact going forward. >> jackie, the former president is facing 37 counts related to his handling of classified materials. these are not just minor

classified documents, we're talking about some of the most sensitive information related to the nuclear capabilities. i know you have also seen and handled classified material. how serious are these charges? >> these are very serious. the fbi, the doj is his charged and convicted persons who have taken home classified material. this is no different. this will be a real test in our country as to whether or not everyone is going to be treated equally under the law. having said that, there are still hurdles that the prosecution will have to overcome. one is this issue that has been raised over the prosecution's potential mishandling of the witness by showing in some cases that there was some abuse that

took place. that's going to have to be dealt with. the other question is you have a number of witnesses that all work for the former president. how are they going to somehow prevent any kind of contact take place as it relates to this case? we have had in history everyone from the former national security advisor to general petraeus who have been charged, they played guilty, then they had sentences that were anything from probation to fines. others who have been charged and convicted has -- have served as much as 19 years. big issues ahead of us. it's going to complicate the presidential race and ironically, these indictments have shown that former president trump has seen a surge in his

support and in his fundraising. we have to fold all of that in. then we have judge cannon has been appointed by then president trump ruled earlier on an issue that was discarded by not only other district court judges but judges on appeal. there are questions about her ability to handle such a complicated and controversial case. whether or not she refuses herself is a decision she makes, not everyone else. >> something i want to ask both of you come up the former president has this amazing ability to get himself out of trouble. do you think this time might be different? >> it's a complicated case. you have all of those elements associated with it. there is still a third

indictment pending that is probably the most egregious. that's where the president was attempting to persuade the secretary of state of georgia to find him -- to find him 11,000 votes. it is clear in this case he is obstructing justice potentially. and for over one year, he refused to give these documents back. and all the other cases, they returned the documents. even after the raid, there were more documents found. the question always becomes what was he going to do with them? we may never know the answer. >> we are looking at sketches of donald trump inside the courthouse today. what is your reaction? >> we are talking about donald trump's ability to get out of trouble. the only thing he has a better ability to do is get into trouble.

his nightmares are of his own making. if as the congresswoman had said he would have cooperated, returned the documents, he would not be in the situation. it would be upset it's a mistake. instead, he pulled the donald trump which is defray, deflect, deny. he keeps digging and his supporters along with him. the real heavy indictment is yet to come. we have had smaller ones in new york and now this and the public has heard this before and said how much is political? we don't have a history of political base charges so when they see this, his supporters continue on. >> the timing is remarkable. we are almost six month away from the first votes being cast in the presidential primary.

next year, we have the 2024 already underway. is this good for democrats? or does it pose challenges? >> i think it's a mixed bag. donald trump gains a lot of attention and support from that base. as we see often democrats have difficulties conveying their messages. it's going to be interesting to see how they message on this issue because in the past, they have been very effective at doing so. >> some of the political math have gotten from democratic workers and consultants is they want donald trump knocked down, but they don't want him out. a knocked down donald trump could be defeated by joe biden.

if he is out of the race, that changes the equation. one says if he goe could have a bigger challenge. >> the devil you don't know. >> donald trump is the one candidate that joe biden can beat. if donald trump is out of the picture and there's another republican in the race, i think it becomes a much tougher race for the president because his polling right now is not good. it's the lowest among most presidents in history with the exception of jimmy carter. i'm sure he's hoping it is donald trump who is his opponent. >> as we wrap up, do you have a sense of what the legal argument

is going to be for trump? his legal strategy? >> delay delay delay. i think the congresswoman would agree with that. his strategy has always been to delay, why should he change that? then go bankrupt and barter for a lower rate. >> if he gets into the white house, that will pose its own. you are sticking around, we have a lot more to talk about. the issue that we are also talking about locally is westfield mall giving up at san francisco location. what that could mean and the

it seems the retail dominoes in san francisco keep falling. many announced they will b shuttering. just yesterday, word that westfield mall is giving up their location. what is happening? it feels like every day we are hearing about another store closing now the situation with the mall. >> we are seeing a convergence of a perfect economic storm doesn't turn out perfectly for everyone. number one, lest foot traffic o the streets of san francisco. in part because there are fewer tourists, fewer people going to their offices. people are not coming into work. on top of that, we have the people on the streets of san francisco which make people sick -- feel unsafe.

the second thing is interest rates. they are not friendly right now. loans are being called in. them have the real of a few years ago, people have lungs that they cannot to new pay on. francisco, but it's all happening at once within a concentrated area. the mall is going to go back to the lender. it will probably stay open and they will continue to rent out to stores. they can close down part of, they could close down all of. but it does look good in the short-term or midterm for san francisco. >> you pointed out it's not like

we haven't seen this before. th long time coming for the westfield mall. >> it's no secret the folks that own westfield mall are getting rid of u.s. properties. they are going to concentrate on europe. economy. they can make money here or overseas. we are in competition with a lot of different people. francisco are very high.

>> i was going to ask how much of this might ultimately be about the state of retail versus san francisco? >> say it san francisco. whatever numbers you put in the equation, the equal mark at the end is bad for san francisco and the bay area. we have offices, office buildings having the same situation. two huge hotels in san francisco including the biggest one give their keys back to the lender in part because they bought high and there are not making money now. there could be a payoff down the line. he could bring down the rates. it could make san francisco less expensive. ri

to in retail all up and down say the same thing, whether it's tourism retail or offices, san francisco has to be clean and safe for anything to work or change. >> governor newsom fox news last night with sean hannity. he was asked about some of the challenges in california and san francisco. >> 42021 and taking in nearly 1000 people per day and you are losing 800 people per day. why are they leaving her state? >> you want to stop at three? 18 states had declines in population. california was .3%. you didn't bring up any of the red states. it's interesting and i don't see it on here. per capita, more

moved to california than californians moving to florida. that i don't imagine is in one of your eight slides. >> gavin newsom debunking some of the criticism of california. what do you make of this in general? >> let me tell you the back story. gavin newsom watches fox news. most democrats would go home and throw things at the tv, but he listens to it. he wants to know what's going on in the rest of the country. he's leading a national agenda and he believes that democrats have to get out of california and relating to red states. second of all, h texted him and said do you want to do an interview? the third thing, if you invite somebody onto your show and they agree and you get that, you are

going to treat them with a certain amount of deference as opposed to the shark tank where you're going to thriller giving at them. -- where you are going to throwing everything at them. backwards and his whole point is to get the message to the red state to get seen nationally. >> what's the long game? >> and politics, every day is a long game and short game. right now, joe biden is the contender and the democratic candidate. if something happens to that, it goes to kamala harris. if something happens to that, gavin newsom would be in the shoot. if that doesn't happen, there will be election in four years. right now gavin newsom is calling for constitutional

amendments on gun control, he's pushing different agendas, raising money. i urge you to look for another democrat who gets the attention he is getting. >> he was a strong surrogate joe biden last night on fox news. >> he was definitely a strong presence for himself. >> thank you. have you ever not bought an because it was locked up in a security case? i had, the san francisco standard looks at the (bell dinging) how's john? oh, much better. that was quite a scare. got us thinking about a lot of things. like life insurance. if something happened to either one of us, we'd really be in trouble. but where can we get coverage with john's health problems on a fixed income?

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the san francisco standard wanted to find out how long takes on average and they published their findings today. thank you for joining us. how long does it take on average to get a lot up item at a store? -- to get a locked up the store? >> we lust your audio at the beginning, if you can repeat that. >> friday. safeway, walgreens, and target. wait times art the look of a draw. if there's someone nearby and they happen to be free, you won't have to wait too long. but other times busy or it's a very large store, you could be waiting upwards of three minutes for a tube of toothpaste. parks tell me about the methods used in your experiment.

>> what i did was i went down to stores and went to get some basic items specifically looking for things commonly locked up. toothpaste, toothbrushes, tide pods. i went with a stopwatch and i would press the button and see how long it took for someone to come unlock the case. dings like painkillers at target took warty five seconds. but a tube of toothpaste from safeway, it took three and a half minutes. ultimately, safeway was the longest wait. >> the target as i went to the electronic session to get a card and that took about 3.5 minutes. like i mentioned, sometimes it can be a quick wait at the store.

away like the electronic section was in the back, you may have to wait longer based on location. >> your article mentions that some stores they won't give the customer to the item, the ticket right to the register. >> this was only the case for the safeway. the worker said the change happened about a month ago. shopping basket with them and unlock your item then put it in the basket then they will take it to the front for you. apparently, that is a move to prevent thieves from walking out with merchandise once it is handed to them. >> what a retailer saying? are they working to prevent thefts? >> i reached out to some of the retailers and i did not hear back from all of them. they did not provide further

information about effectiveness even though i asked. they said they are doing them in response to shoplifting. i know there have been previous reports from other places that also suggested that sometimes these locked up cases can deter shoppers. one customer said she often just orders her items on amazon because at the store, it is locked down. >> to get a few items and you say it takes a few minutes for one item. if they have to go to a different store and do it again, it gets frustrating. you wonder if it does push people to shop online. >> i didn't hear anyone else say that, but i could imagine others would have a similar experience. >> how common are these security cases in san francisco? >>

but in my experience i have seen them at most big retailers. especially where there is more population. certainly the walgreens in south beach, it was pretty quiet but the deodorant isle was locked up. over-the-counter course. then anything with hard liquor for sale, that is also locked up. >> we know it's no francisco, i was in alameda over the weekend and i saw it happening there. thank you so much for joining us, interesting report. >> thank you. >> you can check out more original reporting on their website. we will continue to bring you

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thank you so much for joining us. we will be here every weekday at 3:00 with discussions with experts from around the bay area. >> , president trump pleads not guilty to federal criminal charges, the first form a president to be arraigned on federal charges. his attorne e