♪ let's run away come on atone let's run away ♪ ♪ [ cheers and applause ] this is nightline. tonight, monsters? that's how i tell my parents. the shocking acts reverberating 35 years later. erik and lyle menendez, convicted of brutal murders in their beverly hills home, claiming self-defense. >> he killed his parents because he could no longer endure their abuse and had to stop it. controversy swirling around a

new netflix series. >> what we're trying to do is show many, many, many, many perspectives. >> looking through today's lens at the reasons for their rage. >> if the menendez brothers were the menendez sisters, they'd be free today. >> and kim kardashian surprising connection. plus, joker folie a deux. >> you can do anything you want. >> you're a joker. >> lady gaga joins joaquin phoenix in the highly anticipated sequel of the oscar winning original. >> let's give the people what they want. >> sharing secrets like how she got him to lean into those vocals. >> we should do them live. i was like, yeah, well, it's easy for you to say because that's what you do. could this unlikely pair waltz to box office gold? >> and why dwell on that now? >> because i want the pleasure of saying i told you so. >> remembering the dry wit and commanding presence of downton abbey star dame maggie smith. nightline will be (vo) for over 50 years purina cat chow has been helping cats feel at home.

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>> thanks for joining us tonight. the disturbing new theory and a kardashian twist helping spark renewed fascination in the infamous menendez brothers murder case. allegations of abuse, revenge and their parents seemingly cold blooded double murder at the heart of a controversial new netflix series, a bloodbath in

beverly hills. what's the problem? what's the problem? >> i'm sorry to tell my parents. >> two privileged brothers accused of killing their parents. >> i'm just a normal kid. >> oh, eric, you're a normal kid who killed your parents, i know. >> a televised trial that transformed millions into living room jurors. >> does your father have sexual contact with you? >> yes. >> it's a story that had all the ingredients. it had money, it had murder. and it was fascinating to people from the jump. >> now, the release of a controversial netflix drama series, monsters, the lyle and erik menendez story that's topping streaming charts. >> you have to shoot first so that you don't back out what okay. >> raising eyebrows for the dramatized portrayal of an incestuous relationship between the brothers, what stood out to me most was the ways in which

the homoeroticism between the brothers was played out from the opening shot. more than three decades later, the country transfixed again, a new generation looking at the case through a new lens. >> they're more aware of the trauma that people can carry with them from abuse. it's more brought out into the open. >> it was late summer 1989 on a sunday night, shots rang out in beverly hills. what happened? >> who was the person that was shot? my mom and my dad. >> jose and kitty menendez, were just watching television and eating ice cream when their sons burst into the living room with the shotguns. they just repeatedly fired at close range. >> kitty, a homemaker, and jose, a powerful music executive. >> jose menendez was a titanic personality. he was domineering. he wanted to get what he wanted, and he was going to steamroll anybody who got in his way. >> since they were not initially

suspects, they were able to claim an insurance payout of $600,000. >> the menendez brothers went on a spending spree. they bought a porsche. they bought expensive watches that raised suspicions, sharp suspicions in the district attorney's office. >> it got to a point where i have i have all this money and so much pain. i don't know what to do with it. >> guilt was weighing heavily on the then 18 year old eric. >> you went to your psychologist, doctor oziel, and told him that you had committed this crime. you were in torment and you told him i felt that i was the worst person on earth, and i, i got to a point where i couldn't live with myself anymore and i needed help. >> and so i went to him. and that is what the catalyst was for me getting arrested. >> the glow of innocence once surrounding the menendez brothers is now shadowed by charges of murder. >> prosecutors say greed drove the boys to shooting their parents to death last august.

>> in july 1993, lyle and eric's trial began. the two handsome, well-dressed defendants would propel it into a media spectacle. >> they were getting love letters and people were writing to them, so it was just a huge mania. and you have to think we weren't in a place where there were social media and things like that. >> the brothers testifying that they experienced sexual abuse at the hands of their father. >> my dad. wait one second, mr. hernandez. okay? let me. >> no, no, he was in the process of answering, so there was no need to ask. >> can you answer the question? >> yes. >> okay. it was you telling lyle what my dad had been molesting me. >> and after confronting their parents about it, eric and lyle feared for their lives. >> i thought they were going ahead with their plan to kill us. >> i was just sitting on the couch with my hands in my head saying, we're going to die. >> they had been so abused, so traumatized, and that the family was was in such horror, such a situation of tension and secrets that were coming out that they were afraid they were going to

get killed if they didn't kill first. >> the details horrific. >> he would put me on my knees and he would guide me all my movements, and i would, have oral sex with him. >> when eric was 13 years old, he had told his cousin andy karnow about the molestation. >> he wanted to know that if this happened to every kid, i do remember very specifically was him asking me to make a promise to him never to reveal that to anybody. >> and so the question in the trial was, do claims of abuse, you know, excuse you or mitigate your responsibility for killing your parents? the abuse excuse, it was dubbed and it fascinated the country. >> after weeks of deliberation, a hung jury, the judge declaring a mistrial. >> and as i recall it was women on one side, men on the other side. the women believed the

brothers. the men did not or were not willing to go with the defense. >> two years later, a retrial. >> well, the second trial was very different. no television cameras and the judge severely limited the what the brothers would call the corroborating evidence of how brutalized they were by their father. but without that sort of sex abuse element, it really looked like they were just these really privileged, greedy children who massacred their parents because they were getting cut off financially. >> they were convicted of first degree murder, sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. >> i've said for years that if the menendez brothers were the menendez sisters, they'd be free today. people didn't want to believe it could happen to boys. they just didn't want to believe it. >> three decades later, the new series from ryan murphy stirring controversy because of the suggestion of an incestuous relationship between the brothers. i love you, okay

>> we all have to remember that this is not an accurate, quote unquote account. and anytime you do a series or a film, especially in hollywood, it's usually sensationalized. >> even though there had been speculation over eric's sexual orientation at the time, i didn't hear about girlfriends. >> they were there. >> i guess what, i just have to say to you is, are you gay? no i'm not gay. >> eric is taking issue with what he describes as blatant lies and a dishonest portrayal of the tragedies in the netflix series, saying in a statement released by his wife, the show has taken the painful truth several steps backward, back through time to an era when the prosecution built a narrative on a belief system that males were not sexually abused, their extended family weighing in, saying they support eric and lyle, and that the show is a phobic, gross and anachronistic serial episodic nightmare. murphy is no stranger to controversy, telling e! news the series has created a

conversation about something that's never talked about in our culture, which is male sexual abuse, which we do responsibly. >> this is a take. this is a version that ryan murphy and ian brennan have done based on a different reactions and different, ideas and approaches from different people involved in the case. >> chloe sevigny, who plays kitty menendez in the series, talked to kim kardashian in a video for variety. >> we're kind of playing interpretations of her, so i'm not necessarily playing her truth, which i found very difficult, it's all people's imaginings of her. >> kardashian and cooper coach, the actor who played the younger brother, met with eric as part of her prison reform activism coach, telling the today show we had a really nice conversation and i got to basically just tell him that i believe him, and i did everything that i could in my power as an actor to portray him as accurately and as

authentically as possible. >> the menendez brothers are kind of the north star of the true crime genre. the fact that they took the stand and explained what they did and what they say happened to them, that makes this forever fascinating to people to watch. >> and when we return, lady gaga and joaquin phoenix open up about the courageous, romance making joker folie a deux, a masterpiece. that's the rule. >> but faith is the hand that i see the joker is me. the see the joker is me. the is me. the joker isngs! the golden hour of cold and flu symptoms! i'm feeling better. cough? congestion? all in one and done with mucinex kickstart. aaaaaaaaaaaaa- hated that. headache? better. aaaaaaaaaaaaa-

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>> the anticipation of a joker sequel amped up, ramped up and touching down in the city of light with music recorded live on set by joaquin phoenix and the superstar power of lady gaga. may we? it's the long awaited joker. folie a deux. here's abc's chris connelly. >> let's give the people what they want. >> he's back. and gaga's got him. >> i'm confused. i got you, stefani. lady gaga because they're saying, god, give me whatever you want. >> i want to see the real you. >> i tried to create an inner storm for her that would, like, just feel like when they were together, that there was, like, a ticking time bomb inside of her. and you just never knew when it was going to go off.

>> five years after his dancing on the stairs performance won him an academy award and sent his film to a box office bonanza, joaquin phoenix is returning as the joker. but this time he's not dancing alone. >> it's just us now. >> that volatile pairing of joaquin's bare faced arthur fleck and lady gaga's lead, a reimagined harley quinn putting the madness for two magic into joker folie a jeu, a sequel spawned by the first film's effect on joaquin. >> i wanted that experience again. oftentimes, when you're coming to the end of a film, you're like, i just, i want it over. i'm done. i didn't want it to end. >> gaga why was it of interest to you when there are so many things you can do at any given moment? >> you know, the film that they made the first time together? joker that was what really interested me, because i loved arthur so much. like, who would be the love in his life? >> is it terrifying, todd to do a sequel? >> i would say we were under a microscope from the very

beginning, and then we bring lady gaga in. but, i mean, it's kind of the why we do what we do right to take risks. >> his two leads are no strangers to taking risks and performing on the edge. i'm on the edge of glory has been gaga throughout her career, from her up to the moment hits to her embrace of classic american song with tony bennett and her oscar winning shallow from a star is born in the shadow of shalalala love. and as joaquin prepares to turn 50 in late october, his 21st century career alone features him falling in love with an ai. scarlett johansson in spike jones's her playing johnny cash in walk the line and radiating evil in gladiator. all teeing him up for the maniacal joker. >> you can do anything you want. you're a joker. >> i heard that line and i thought, well, so much of your

career is about that. >> yeah, i have the opportunity to try to try anything, and then i rely on somebody else to make it work. >> but foglia does seek to make work of the film's fantasy sequences, in which these two are shown singing live on the set. raw and real vocals conveying their love. >> when we first started, i did not want anything to be spontaneous, and i wanted to sound as good as possible and stuff. gaga said joker. >> arthur. >> we should do them live. i was like, yeah, well, it's easy for you to say because it's what you do. you were really cool and kind of made me feel comfortable about that. >> i can assure you that joaquin, using his natural voice, was just so much more compelling than any lip syncing would ever be. >> we weren't just recording the vocals live, but we were the accompaniment. the pianist that we were working with was playing live, and so the tempo would changed and the performance would change. showtime. >> from inside his own off

kilter reality, arthur's idiosyncratic selections from the great american songbook form his love language. >> arthur is not a singer, but he's so moved with emotion that he has no choice if it's uncomfortable slightly in the way that, like the expression of love is when somebody is either like a child or in a childlike state. and this is kind of like the emergence of romance for him for the first time in his life, that became like the north star for me. for arthur's singing, it was almost easier for me because i'm just going to the limit of my ability. >> gaga's limitless vocal abilities highlight her album harlequin, which dropped early friday. inspired by her film characterization. we know you have a once in a generation voice, but you're playing a character here and you're using that voice the way the character would. >> she's not a performer, and, i you know, i am. and in a scene

as a different character, it's just completely different. it's lee's reality. it's coming from that character. but i also think, like, you know, i don't just sing that way in this movie. i also sing with my full voice. there's moments of fantasy in the film where arthur's kind of dreaming, and i wanted to also have available for todd, you know, in the edit. like what? what would arthur be dreaming of in this moment? what would he need? yeah. >> what does she sound like to arthur? of course. right. >> and also, i do think that, like, a more kind of raw voice that has less technique. it created a different kind of realness that todd is like walking the line of reality and fantasy. >> stephanie, she's famous on a different level than a famous actor is famous. she's world famous as a performer and it's and it's really a different thing. and you, the concern i had a little bit was, is she going to be able to access vulnerability the way, you know, joaquin can? i think we were all

amazed how easily she was able to find that and just kind of use that, really. it was it was kind of mind blowing. >> i just appreciate also that they were really open to me bringing my perspective as a woman. it was essential that, like her love of joker, was also rooted in her understanding of arthur gaga's rare capacity for on screen intimacy and connection. >> joaquin's depiction of a joker enraptured by real feelings for someone, producing some revealing moments. >> i was able to put some things of myself in her that maybe i've always been embarrassed of. when i first saw the film, i was, i remember thinking, oh, like, that's in there, you know, like that, that part of me, that part of me that i want no one to know about. and i think part of that was like, she's kind of in some in some moments, like she's kind of so uncomfortable on the edge. the romance in this film, it definitely comes from a

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>> and finally, tonight, remembering the truly legendary dame maggie smith. for more than six decades, delighting audiences on stage and on screen, winning three emmys as the sharp tongued matriarch in downton abbey. >> can i tempt you to one of these new cocktails? >> i don't think so. they look too exciting for so early in the evening. an entertaining younger audiences in harry potter. perhaps it would be more useful if i were to transfigure mr. potter and yourself into a pocket watch. >> maggie smith's children sharing that she died in a london hospital surrounded by friends and family. she was 89, and she will be missed. that's nightline. you can watch all of our full episodes on hulu. we'll see you right back