want from this world, and how they will make it better. and while parenting has changed, how much you care has not. that's why instagram is introducing teen accounts, automatic protections for who can contact them, and the content they can see. >> during black friday week, save big at jeffrey's diamonds and goldsmith during sonny's retirement sale. save up to 70% off, plus spin the wheel for up to an additional 20% off only at jeffrey's diamonds and goldsmith in san carlos neighborhood safety tracker only >> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. >> jonathan: trump's retribution. >> i'm going to go on a government gangsters manhunt in washington, d.c. for our great president. who's coming with me? >> jonathan: the president-elect names kash patel to serve as fbi director.

a loyalist who said trump's political opponents should be very afraid, and maybe the toughest confirmation battle yet. transition diplomacy. >> he would actually be not just harming canadians. he would actually be raising prices for american citizens as well. >> jonathan: donald trump threatens new tariffs on canada and mexico. president biden faces multiple conflicts abroad and pushes for a middle east breakthrough. >> this is designed to be a permanent cessation of hostilities. >> jonathan: russia hammers ukraine's power grid, plunging over a million people into darkness with freezing temperatures settling in. >> we know our enemy. we know that he will not stop. >> jonathan: our guest, white house national security adviser, jake sullivan with reaction from republican senator mike rounds, a key member of the intelligence and armed services committees. plus, north carolina governor-elect josh stein. a democrat who won big where kamala harris lost. rick klein breaks down the house

republicans' razor-thin majority, and the powerhouse round table on the latest surprise from donald trump. >> jonathan: good morning. welcome to "this week." i hope you all had a great thanksgiving. if there was any doubt that president-elect donald trump intends to follow through with his promises of radical change and retribution both here at home and abroad, those doubts have been erased. on the home front, the big move came just last night when trump announced he intends to make kash patel, one of his most fervently loyal defenders, as the director of the fbi. he'll first have to fire the current director, chris wray, who was chosen by trump back in 2017, and whose term isn't up for more than two years. patel will face an especially contentious confirmation battle.

patel is so controversial that when president trump talked about making him the deputy fbi director in 2020, then-attorney general bill barr, said it would happen, quote, over my dead body according to his memoir adding, quote, patel had virtually no experience that would qualify him to serve at the highest level of the world's preeminent law enforcement agency. the very idea of moving patel into a role like this showed a shocking detachment from reality. again, that was bill barr objecting to patel becoming the deputy fbi director. now trump has announced his intention to make him the director. patel has served as both a public defender and a federal prosecutor. he also served on trump's national security council and in the office of the director of national intelligence. after the 2020 election, patel was dispatched to the pentagon. as i previously reported, he used his post as chief of staff to the acting defense secretary to attempt to chase down one of the most far-fetched election conspiracy theories, that italian spy satellites were used to flip votes from trump to

biden. after trump left the white house, patel took up the cause of fighting back against anyone and everyone in law enforcement who was investigating donald trump. he even wrote a children's book about trump's legal troubles called "plot against the king," but it's the book that patel wrote for adults, "government gangsters," that gives an idea of what he would attempt to do as the fbi director. he writes that federal law enforcement agencies must be brought to heel by firing the top ranks and prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law anyone who in any way abused their authority for political ends. the fbi has become so thoroughly compromised that it will remain a threat to people unless drastic measures are taken, patel wrote, adding, quote, democrats should be very afraid. trump has also been shaking things up and rattling nerves on the world stage. he began the week by threatening to immediately impose steep

tariffs on america's three largest trading partners when he takes office on january 20th. that threat prompted a call to trump from mexico's president and a trek to mar-a-lago by canada's prime minister. of course, america has only one president at a time, but with big changes coming, the rest of the world isn't waiting until trump moves into the white house. the man still in the white house, president biden, urged trump to reconsider his latest tariff threats. biden has had a busy week too, facing threats from putin and russian advances in ukraine while brokering a ceasefire this week between hezbollah and israel. the biden white house is trying to leverage the hezbollah deal to get a ceasefire and a hostage release deal with hamas in gaza. as peter baker put it in "the new york times," quote, this is a time of transition two presidents leading the country, in two different directions, one officially, the other unofficially.

one representing the past and present, the other, the future. whipsawed and maybe just a little confused, foreign leaders are left to calculate whether it makes sense to try to get something done with the outgoing leader or brace for the reality of his successor. and we begin with white house national security adviser, jake sullivan. jake, thank you very much for being here with us. i want to get to all that's happening around the world, but first i've got to ask you about the news trump made overnight appointing kash patel as the director of the fbi or his intention to nominate him for that position. patel listed you in one of his books as members of the executive branch deep state and one of the 60 corrupt actors of the first order. does this nomination concern you? >> well, i'm not going to speak to president-elect trump's nominees. i'll let him and his transition team speak to that.

i would just point out what the biden administration did in approaching the question of the fbi director. as you know, fbi directors are appointed for ten-year terms and the idea being that they extend beyond the term of any given esident, and so we inherited an fbi director who actually had been appointed by president trump, director chris wray who's continued to serve in that role through the four years of the biden administration and served with distinction, served entirely insulated from politics where the partisan preferences of the current sitting president of the united states. this is a good, deep, bipartisan tradition that president biden adhered to, and that's really all i can say. as for me personally, i got 50 days left to continue to try to protect this country from threats, to continue to advance our national interests. i'm going to spend every day doing that, and not worry about

other things. >> jonathan: this is somebody who's talked about retribution, talked about the need -- he suggests even prosecuting. you're saying the democrats, quote, should be very afraid, and he named you as one of the corrupt actors of the first order. so put aside the nomination to be fbi director. does this kind of talk concern you about what's going to happen after january 20th? >> well, look. like i said, jon, i can't worry about after january 20th. i have to worry about until january 20th, and the full spectrum of challenges and opportunities the united states has to advance our national interest. i'm the national security adviser of the united states. my job is to protect this country, to try to reduce the capacity of our adversaries, increase the capacity of our allies. we got a lot of work to do, and frankly we're going to try to do that also in a way where we have a smooth transition with the incoming trump team, and i have to say that i have been gratified so far by the coordination i have been able to have with the incoming trump team. they seem focused also on a smooth transition because they want to be able to hit the

ground running. so that is going to preoccupy me between now and january 20th, nothing else. >> jonathan: how is that working? on the one hand, you obviously have a lot on your plate. you just had the ceasefire deal with hezbollah. you're trying to work out something in gaza with hamas. you've got obviously all that's happening in ukraine. at the same time, donald trump is meeting with prime minister trudeau. he's got calls with the mexican president, other world leaders. how does this work? i mean, basically you don't have two presidents at once, but you've got world leaders trying to work with both an incoming and an outgoing president. how does that coordination work? >> well, transitions always have a little bit of awkwardness to them because you have an incoming team with a different policy than the outgoing team, and of course, leaders around the world have to begin adjusting to that. on the other hand, there is one president at a time, and that president is president joe biden

who, in fact, is leaving this evening on a foreign trip to angola who has just negotiated a ceasefire in lebanon, who is working actively on a ceasefire and hostage deal in gaza, who met in xi jinping a week ago and made a very important statement about a.i. and nuclear weapons. so we are working through a lot every single day. we just did a, you know, got some americans home from china. so we'll keep doing our jobs day in, day out, but we are going to work closely with the incoming team because so many of these challenges are -- are not going to change fundamentally on january 21st. they're still going to be there, and we want to make sure that baton gets passed very smoothly. so far, i have to say i think the coordination and the work together has been in good faith, has been professional, and has been designed to try to ensure that smooth transition. >> jonathan: what are you telling your ukrainian

counterparts about american support in 51 days? after biden leaves office? >> well, first what i'm saying is we are going to do everything in our power for these 50 days to get ukraine all the tools we possibly can to strengthen their position on the battlefield so that they'll be stronger at the negotiating table, and president biden directed me to oversee a massive surge in the military equipment that we are delivering to ukraine so that we have spent every dollar that congress has appropriated to us by the time that president biden leaves office. so that's first and foremost what we're focused on, and then i've encouraged the ukrainian team to engage the incoming team as well as to engage all of our allies and partners because again, on january 21st, the war in ukraine doesn't just go away. obviously the new team will have its own policy and its own approach, and i can't speak to that, but what i can do is make sure that we put ukraine in the best possible position when we hand off the baton. >> jonathan: let me ask you about that. "the new york times" reported on the various measures that you're taking to shore up ukraine's defensive -- defenses at this critical moment, and the article said this. quote, several officials even suggested that mr. biden could

return nuclear weapons to ukraine that were taken from it after the fall of the soviet union. that would be an instant and enormous deterrent, and a step would have serious implications. is that something that's under consideration, that the u.s. would return nuclear weapons to ukraine? is that something you're considering? >> that is not under consideration, no. what we are doing is surging various conventional capacities to ukraine so that they can effectively defend themselves and take the fight to the russians, not nuclear capability. >> jonathan: and are you seeing -- there's talk about a peace process that, you know, trump has now appointed general kellogg to be his envoy to russia, the ukraine peace process and the idea here is that ukraine would give up some of its land in exchange for peace. are you seeing any indication that zelenskyy is willing to do

that? >> look. the key thing from my perspective is that ukraine determine its destiny and its destiny not be imposed by outside powers including the united states. now president zelenskyy has made public comments about the need for this war to end at the negotiating table, meaning he knows ultimately there's going to have to be a negotiation, and, in fact, over the course of 2024, we have been very engaged with president zelenskyy and his team on what the shape of that negotiation could look like and the key thing for this year was to try to give ukraine as many tools as possible so that they could go into that negotiation, and feel they could achieve the outcome that they would like to see. now as far as territory or security or other elements, i'm not going to speak to that publicly. i think president zelenskyy should be the one who chooses to

speak to that because ultimately, it's his country we're talking about. >> jonathan: there was a report trump had spoken with vladimir putin. he's been speaking with a lot of world leaders, but it's been denied by both the kremlin and by trump. do you think that call happened? do you have any knowledge of that? >> i really don't know. i read it in the newspaper. i also saw the denials. so i honestly can't speak to it one way or the other. >> jonathan: let me ask you about another big one. the president's made it clear he wants to have a ceasefire and hostage release deal with hamas for gaza. he's also suggested that he wants before he leaves office, to have a broader middle east peace deal that would involve a pathway to a palestinian state and peace between saudi arabia and israel. do you really think that's something you can do in the next 50 days? >> what i would say is that the first step is getting the ceasefire and hostage deal. if we can get that into effect, then the possibilities for a broader diplomatic initiative in the region along the lines that you just described really open

up, and we will use every day we have in office to try to generate as much progress towards that end as possible. so we are determined to try to move rapidly to get those hostages home, get a ceasefire in place, and then move onto this larger deal that we would like to see consummated as soon as possible, including if possible, while president biden is still president. >> jonathan: okay. we've got to go, but before you leave, i have to ask you, are you prepared for life as a congressional spouse? your wife, of course, will be sworn in as a member of congress in january. >> well, i just have to say i'm so proud of maggie, and she is going to serve new hampshire and serve the country just exceptionally well, and i'm looking forward to supporting her every step of the way. >> jonathan: all right. jake sullivan, thank you very much. i'm joined now by republican senator mike rounds of the great

state of south dakota. senator rounds, thank you for being here. i want to start with the news about kash patel. were you surprised that donald trump said that he wants to make him the director of the fbi? does that concern you? >> well, every president has the opportunity to decide who he wants to offer a nomination for. so all of the nominations coming through, the president has the right to do. it doesn't surprise me that he will pick people that he believes are very loyal to himself, and that's been a part of the process. every president wants people who are loyal to themselves, but i'll also share with you that chris wray, you know, who the president nominated the first time around, i think the president picked a very good man to be the director of the fbi when he did that in his first term. when we meet with him behind closed doors, i have had no objections to the way that he's handled himself, and so i don't have any complaints about the way that he's done his job right now, and once again, the president has the right to make nominations, but normally these are for a ten-year term. we'll see what his process is,

and whether he actually makes that nomination, and if he does, just as with anybody who is nominated for one of these positions, once they have been nominated by the president, then the president gets, you know, the benefit of the doubt on the nomination, but we still go through a process, and that process includes advice and consent, which for the senate, means advice or consent sometimes. >> jonathan: wray was confirmed for a ten-year term as you pointed out. you just said you have confidence in him. is it a mistake to fire him? why is trump determined to fire the fbi director? let alone one that he nominated in the first place? >> look. the one thing that we've learned is we don't speak for the president-elect. we simply respond when we're asked questions about what we're going to do. the message and one that i feel very strongly about, is there is a constitutional separation. the founding fathers did that for a reason.

we will, you know, we accept that the president should have the people that he wants in his cabinet, and on his team. every president wants that. we give them the benefit of the doubt. i did that when biden came into office. i did that before when president trump was elected. i looked the same way at it when president obama made nominations. i will do that again, and i think the vast majority of the members of the senate will do the same thing. they will give a benefit of the doubt to the president with any one of his nominees, but then we have a constitutional role to play, in that we provide advice and consent, and once again, that can be sometimes advice. sometimes it is consent, but that's the process. the process has worked, and i expect the process to continue on, and look. there will be open hearings. there will be an opportunity for these individuals, all of his nominees to come before the members of the senate and most of the time, we meet with them privately beforehand, and once that is completed, we have committees, and the committees will have a chance to question them. the vast majority will be in public.

some of it is behind closed doors, but the vast majority is in public, and the americans will get to see the questions that are raised and the answers is that these nominees respond with, and then we'll move forward. >> jonathan: let me ask you about the -- one of the other things donald trump did this week. that is the threat to impose steep tariffs on canada, mexico, and china. do you think he's going to go through with these threats? or is this a negotiating tactic? >> look. the president's a businessman, a successful businessman, and once again, he has not imposed them. he doesn't have the authority yet to impose them, but he is putting them out in front, and now he's got everybody coming in and talking with him, talking about the concerns that he is expressing because he really does believe that tariffs can be

a great tool for making sure that our economy gross and thrives, but one more thing. the one thing that i have noticed time and again is, is he cares about kids, and what he has seen at the southern border, he's frustrated with. he doesn't like to see people suffering. he's seen what's happened as these migrants have come north. he wants it to stop. he thinks it's wrong, and he thinks by suggesting these tariffs right now, he's going to get the attention of the leaders in the other countries. i don't think there's anybody out there arguing that we've got to fix our borders. if we can do that with tariffs, you're not going to find very many people in the united states that are going to disagree with him on that. on the other hand, you know, look. i'm from south dakota. you know that, and look. we're an ag state. when i talk to my farmers and my ranchers about that, they're concerned about retaliation. you know what they tell me time and again? the borders are important. we're going to do our part as well. if we've got to have tariffs, so be it. we're going to support the

president. let's get this thing rolling again, and i mean, look. they believe in his america first approach. we want to give him an opportunity to be successful in that. >> jonathan: all right. turning to ukraine, you made some interesting comments recently casting doubts about the possibility of a -- of peace talks between ukraine and vladimir putin, any kind of an agreement that would involve giving up territory in exchange for peace. let's take a listen to what you said. >> it's time to take a hard look at this thing, and really ask ourselves, do you believe that this tyrant, if you offer him a part of a free country, do you think he's going to stop? as much as i would love to say that there is a path towards a peaceful resolution to this by negotiating with this tyrant, i suspect that we may be deceiving ourselves. >> jonathan: but this is exactly what trump's trying to do, right? he's named an envoy for these peace talks, which obviously haven't started or haven't been committed to by either side yet, but the framework appears to be exactly what you just said is problematic which is ukraine

giving to russia, territory that was taken by force in exchange for peace. >> i don't think that we should deceive ourselves. i think mr. putin is a tyrant. i think dealing with him is going to be extremely difficult. i give -- i give president trump credit for saying that he wants to end this. he wants to end the bloodshed. he doesn't like the suffering that's out there. i just think this is going to be an enormous task for anybody to negotiate with putin. look. i don't think this guy is interested in stopping anywhere that he's at right now. i think we have to recognize that. so i think the president's got a huge job on his hands if we're going to be successful in stopping putin. i think wherever we look, mr. putin is going to do his best to find a weakness. if he finds a weakness within nato, he's going to try to utilize that to his advantage. i think the fact that he has looked elsewhere in the world for opportunities to -- to create problems and mischief for

us, i think he's done that. so i think, and once again, not taking anything away from a president who wants to find peace. i just point out just how big of a project this is going to be for any president to be successful in negotiating with this tyrant, and i, you know, i wish him the best. i hope he is successful, but if you compare that, the fact that the president wants to end this with what's happened in the biden administration, i think the fact that the biden administration has shown some real weaknesses throughout the world. the world is on fire, and people just simply haven't respected our leadership role. you can't win -- you can't slow down these fires across the country unless you lay out your dominance with the capabilities that you have, and the fact that you're going to fight for freedom. so look. i want to see president trump be successful in this. i want to see ukraine with its sovereignty protected. i just think it's going to be a major, major task to overcome what putin is offering, and i just simply don't know that we

can trust this guy to make a deal and keep it. if you take a look back, look. we made a deal with ukraine. the united states was one of the parties. russia was one of the parties, and that's when they gave up their nuclear weapons. it's not the united states that's causing the problems there in ukraine right now. it is russia going back on their written commitment to help protect the lines that were drawn in 1994. so once again, it is putin going back on his country's word of honor. i don't think you can trust a guy that doesn't honor their word of honor. >> jonathan: all right. well, you're perfectly clear about that. senator rounds, thank you very much for joining us. when we come back, i'll talk to a democrat who won big where kamala harris lost. we're back in just two minutes. we're back in just two minutes. tonight, the people of north singer: this is our night! shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects! only shingrix is proven over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults

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a vision that's about creating opportunity for every north carolinian. we chose hope over hate, competence over chaos. decency over division. >> jonathan: that was democrat josh stein on election night after winning the governor's race in north carolina, a battleground state that donald trump won by three points. governor-elect josh stein joins me now. thank you, governor-elect for being here. let me ask you. i understand you were up against a deeply flawed candidate, but you won what was it? by 15 points or so. at the same time, harris was losing. why did your message resonate in north carolina so much more than kamala harris'? >> well, i'm incredibly honored that the voters of north

carolina have bestowed the governorship to my responsibility. it's incredible privilege and i'm eager to get it to work. i think the voters had a really clear choice. our vision was positive and forward-looking. truly it was about fighting for every person. we wanted to make sure that people live in safe neighborhoods, free of drugs and violence. we want kids to go to excellent public schools. we want people to have real economic opportunity, and that applies to all people, even folks who don't go to college. they should be able to get good-paying jobs that can support a family, and of course, people's personal freedoms need to be respected. people's right to vote, women's right to be able to make their own reproductive health care decisions, and the choice was very clear. i think the fact that i had a

track record of delivering for the people of north carolina as their attorney general helped give them confidence in knowing that i wasn't just speaking words, but that i would work hard every day to deliver. >> jonathan: so what did the democrats fail to do on a national level? i mean, it sounds similar to what harris was talking about. where did they fall short? >> the vice president ran a strong campaign in north carolina. i think she ran out of time. she was a short, abbreviated campaign. it was a tough national mood as evidenced by the fact that trump won all of the swing states. so she worked hard, but the voters here in north carolina embraced something very positive, and it wasn't just our win, which was the strongest win in 44 years for a governor -- a democratic governor candidate, but we defended the secretary of state and attorney general's office. we picked up the lieutenant governor and superintendent of public instruction. we likely prevailed in the only supreme court race. we won the only congressional competitive governor -- competitive congressional race in the south, and we broke the supermajority in the statehouse. so it was an unfortunate night for democrats across this country, but north carolina was a bright spot, and we're proud of what we accomplished here. >> jonathan: democrats during the campaign, spoke in pretty

dire terms about what would happen if trump won. so now he's won. what are your expectations? let me ask it this way. what would you say is your greatest hope and your biggest fear about what's to come in a second trump presidency? >> well, i want to do everything i can for the people of north carolina, and right now folks in western north carolina are really suffering. hurricane helene left unimaginable devastation in its wake. many lives lost. thousands of buildings destroyed homes and small businesses. infrastructure, critical infrastructure, water and sewer, waste water. parts of highway 40 fell into the water. we are look at multibillion dollar. we have an appropriations request. i was up there in washington two weeks ago with governor cooper meeting with senators tillis and budd and a number of

congressional offices, and i am eager to work with the trump administration to deliver for the people of western north carolina who need the help of the federal government and our state government to get back up on their feet. >> jonathan: and your biggest fear? >> well, i want somebody who respects the rule of law, and his nomination for the fbi does not give me confidence that that's a top priority. >> jonathan: you've -- one of the big issues related to that in a way is trump's promise to have a mass deportation of undocumented immigrants. is north carolina going to cooperate with that -- with that deportation plan? >> well, one thing about president trump is he says a lot, and then you don't know what the actual policy behind the bluster is going to be. and so i have to wait to see what he actually proposes as opposed to what he says through twitter or any other social media platform. >> jonathan: but you don't rule out working with him to deport some of those undocumented immigrants? >> right now, if folks break the law and harm north carolinians,

they get deported as it is. folks who are law-abiding, that's not a priority at all. they are instrumental to our communities, and instrumental to our economy. >> jonathan: all right, governor-elect stein. we're out of time, but we look forward to continuing the conversation once you get sworn in as governor. thank you very much for spending time with us this morning. coming up, what could the historically narrow gop house majority mean for trump's first 100 days in office? rick klein is here with the breakdown when we come back. the agenda will be

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for the first hundred days with full control of congress, but the numbers are going to make that extremely difficult, particularly in the house where the gop's tight margin is set to get trimmed further as at least two republican house members leave congress to serve in trump's administration. our washington bureau chief and political director, rick klein, is here to break down the latest. rick, some very cl >> yeah, jon. if the current results hold, republicans will have secured a 220-215 advantage in the next congress. that's actually two more democrats than who serve right now in congress despite those very tough redistricting maps and despite the coat tails of donald trump and him winning the popular vote as well as the electoral college. that by itself would be the tightest governing majority in almost a century, but here's the thing. things are going to get tighter almost certainly and actually very quickly. we've already heard from matt

gaetz. he is not going to be trump's next attorney general, but he's resigned from this congress and said he won't serve in the next congress. his fellow florida congressman mike waltz will be the national security adviser. he's going to resign and he says on the first day of the trump administration, and elise stefanik, the congresswoman from new york is on tap to be the u.n. ambassador under donald trump. she would resign her seat when she's confirmed by -- or if and when she's confirmed by the senate. that leaves just a two-seat margin, 217-215. that means just one defection can sink any bill or two vacancies and almost nothing would be able to get done with that kind of margin. >> jonathan: on any given vote if all the democrats show up, one republican misses a vote or votes the other way, no majority. so look. presidents, democrat, republican, always face tough votes early on. how does this margin compare to what we have seen with other recent incoming presidents? >> yeah. congress rarely makes it easy for a brand-new president, but if you look back just at the last couple of presidents, an unthinkable margin that barack obama had, 79 votes-plus for the democrats. you could lose almost 40 votes an an individual piece of

legislation, and he needed those for obamacare, and trump, the first time around, he was able to spare 20-something republicans on any individual vote and he had a plus four margin. very tight margins for joe biden. he was plus nine in the house and absolutely even at 50/50 senate. trump will have that stronger majority than the senate. three votes to spare. that could be key to getting his cabinet picks confirmed, but it is that house majority that's going to be so tough to govern with, and it looks like it's going to take a while to get back to full strength. the special elections in florida and new york would probably take until around april to complete. those first 100 days that speaker johnson talked about, they will be spent with almost entirely no margin for error. >> jonathan: the margins are incredibly tight. all right, rick will stick around for the round table. we'll break down the latest on the trump transition, including

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50 years and older. shingrix doesn't protect everyone and isn't for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. tell your healthcare provider if you're pregnant or breastfeeding. increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can happen so take precautions. most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling where injected, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor about shingrix today. >> jonathan: the round table is here. former dnc chair, donna brazile, senior editor, sarah isgur, vivian salama, and rick klein back with us. let me start with you. we have had a lot of controversial picks, kash patel has to top the list. >> start with the fact that he is creating the vacancy in order to fill it. >> jonathan: firing chris wray. >> he has to fire the fbi director to replace the last one. >> jonathan: who he fired. >> who he fired as well. and replacing him with someone who is a close personal and political ally, a foot soldier in what you might consider the steve bannon wing of the maga movement right now, and someone

whose avowed statements around who he would do in a job like this have less to do with running the department and blowing it up, and yes, in punishing perceived political enemies, this is beyond a provocative choice. i think it's going to test the limits of what donald trump can do in terms of -- in terms of approvals in the senate, and it is a clear signal that when he talked about going in and blowing up a lot of washington institutions, he was very serious about it, very serious about the rhetoric he used, and the people around him, ecstatic around this choice. the people, the close advisers, although there were many doubtful as to whether this would be a pick that was confirmed. >> jonathan: you worked at the trump justice department the last time donald trump fired an fbi director as i recall, and when chris wray came into the job. how is this move, kash patel to fbi, again, needs confirmation, how is it perceived? >> it reminds me a little bit of when matt gaetz was announced for attorney general. there were many thinking of going in as political appointees that wanted to think twice about it at that point, but the matt

gaetz is instructive as well. he never even got nominated, and so i think what you heard from senator rounds for instance, is really interesting. a republican senator basically saying, i'll worry about that when the time comes. let's see if that actually even comes to fruition rather than waste capital now, and the senate's advise and consent role is interesting, also something that senator rounds said. the president really should be able to get his choices. he should have the people around him giving him the advice that he wants. with the slight exception of that advise and consent role, hamilton and federalist numbers 68 said the president should get

his picks unless it is someone with the necessary insignificance and palestinesy to render him of the president's will. >> jonathan: we don't get enough of that. >> number 76, my friends. >> very impressive. >> jonathan: does he get confirmed? >> it remains to be seen. the problem is we have already had one nominee withdraw, and there are others that have serious issues. the secretary of defense nominee, pete hegseth is now riddled with sexual misconduct allegations. you have tulsi gabbard who's raised concerns about her intelligence contacts and perhaps, you know, meddling with the wrong side of -- >> jonathan: bobby kennedy. we've got a long list. >> we could go down the list, and so it really depends on whether senators are willing to risk and stick their necks out and take down another nominee. kash patel has been highly controversial to the point that folks i talked to on the hill and even within the trump transition team did not think that president-elect trump would nominate him because of how controversial he is. >> jonathan: to rick's point, steve bannon did call it. steve bannon, he's been talking about this for some time, but

there is a -- i've heard within the trump team, some debate here or people close to trump. does he really expect patel to be confirmed as fbi director or is this a way to put out such a controversial pick that it takes the heat off somebody like pete hegseth or bobby kennedy or tulsi gabbard? >> that was definitely the theory with matt gaetz for attorney general, and so it is possible that that's the case, but the thing is that he can still serve -- kash patel could still serve in an acting capacity, if he fires christopher wray and puts him there on a temporary basis. he can do a lot in the time he holds that. that would be enough to satisfy trump. >> jonathan: there's an extra step to do that. donna, first, how hard are democrats going to fight on this one? i don't imagine patel will get many democrats. >> i think the democrats will have to sort through the debris and figure out which of the

shiny objects they want to focus on, and with only, you know, handful of republicans possibly thinking about clause 2, section 2 of the constitution, this is on republicans. i mean, democrat wills do what they have to do in terms of, you know, raising questions and so forth, but this is donald trump. he has told us who he is. i mean, we know that he wants to shake up the government. we didn't expect an earthquake to destroy the government with some of these picks, but look. donald trump is who he is, and he's choosing people that represent his own worst qualities. that's how i see it. >> jonathan: another way to look at it is that he was deeply disappointed by some of his own picks last time when he took the advice -- >> of course. >>. >> jonathan: when he put in senator sessions or bill barr at attorney general or chris wray at fbi. >> too close to the mainstream. >> jonathan: i mean, he has loyalists. especially at doj. >> the interesting thing is he picked credentialed people who

had the experience. i mean, that's why i quoted federalist 76, that insignificance. it matters because you haven't built up the muscles to know what do in that job, so you'll be ineffective, first of all, but second of all, you don't have the muscles to know when to say no, when to push back, when your job is to tell the president, no, sir. we're not doing that. when you put in someone with the level of insignificance of a kash patel, that's the problem you run into, and why it's so different than a chris wray or a bill barr or a jeff sessions. >> jonathan: and rick, they have 53 senators. he can confirm anybody if republicans stay together. you have mitch mcconnell who is no longer the leader, probably not running for re-election, has no loyalty -- personal loyalty to donald trump. you have susan collins and lisa murkowski who have both shown a willingness to, you know, convict trump in an impeachment trial, no loyalty at all. all it takes is one more to stop one.

>> mike rounds didn't sound like he was on board. >> we have to find out how much the senate wants to continue to be the senate. it's on republicans. they have to provide the votes. other than marco rubio, and doug burgum, they'll get plenty of votes, but the others, they'll have to rely on republicans, and yeah. this whole point of advice and consent, you heard from senator rounds, the republican senators weren't asked for the advice, they didn't give it and didn't give the consent at least on matt gaetz. that did crack the door open to others potentially going down, and maybe trump is okay with that. maybe he's fine with setting this aside, because to sarah's point, just because you can consider someone not to be consequential doesn't mean they wouldn't have a significant impact on the job. they have to stand up and take these votes at some point, and that's going to tell us what governing in the trump era is like, because he has the numbers to get trump's people in there if they choose. we don't know if they're going to make that choice. >> that is correct. >> jonathan: i haven't heard much talk of the recess appointments, of forcing

congress to go into recess and bypassing senate confirmation at all. does trump still feel that's an option? >> definitely toying with the idea, but everyone i talk to in trump world says that it's a distant possibility, that they're not necessarily there yet. they believe that they can get -- they can get the votes that they need in session. so they're, you know, for now, they're not -- they're not actually entertaining that realistically. >> but january 3rd is right around the corner and that's a lot to do. i find it fascinating that the trump team, the transition team finally signed the mou with the government so that they can start going into the agencies, but they did not, you know, follow through with the gsa setting up anything. >> jonathan: there's no fbi backgrounds check. >> that's my point. the point is, will the senate -- >> jonathan: will they wait until kash patel becomes fbi director to do the background

check? >> that's one theory of the case, but it's to republicans. they're institutionalists, i do believe the vast majority of them will think about the rule of law, think about the constitution as they begin to look into these nominations. >> jonathan: it doesn't seem we have a rubber stamp. we'll see. we're going to take a quick break and come back. hold that thought. much more still ahead. the round table weighs in on the path forward for democrats. we're back in just a minute. they will grow up. (♪) discover who they are (♪) what they want from this world. and how they will make it better. and while parenting has changed, how much you care has not. that's why instagram is introducing teen accounts. automatic protections for who can contact them and the content they can see. (♪) singer: this is our night! shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects! only shingrix is proven over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix doesn't protect everyone and isn't for those with severe allergic reactions

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you're being appointed to or senate confirmed elsewhere in the government. >> jonathan: during the last year. >> kash patel, not gs-15. he would have to sit there for 90 days. >> jonathan: there's no easy way to bypass a senate confirmation. >> not unless you're willing to wait for a while. >> jonathan: democrats, i've heard -- there's been a lot this week about lessons learned from kamala harris' loss. >> i've heard a lot. i've heard more fingerpointing and blaming than really looking at what truly happened on the ground in those final two weeks of the election. look. i'm all about a forensic examination. that's healthy. that's important, but i think for now, the democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time. begin to set and place the reforms that are necessary for a stronger, healthier party a year from now, and of course, for the midterm, but also look deeper at some of the strategic mistakes

that were made. that being said, there's an announcement, february 1st, we're going to elect a new chair. whoopee. i'm so excite. i've done that twice in my life. put me down as interim. it's not on my bucket list. maybe being like rick klein when i can do numbers on sunday. that's on my bucket list. >> jonathan: vivian, i mean, what's the sense? we saw josh stein. he seems to be a potential new national figure for the democrats. >> of course. josh stein had a very unique situation. his opponent was riddled with controversy to say the least. there is a sense that there needs to be some sort of come to jesus moment among democrats, that they need to figure out, a, what went wrong, why they lost touch with the country, but b, also who is going to lead the country forward? there is a lot of debate even on the hill to try to find new leadership perhaps on some of the committees because they feel like there needs to be young and fresh blood coming in and doing, that but there's a lot of resistance as well, and that's going to be really the telling thing moving forward, is whether or not the old guard is willing to step back and say, you know, it's time for new people to come in and shake things up. >> jon, i think despite the numbers in the house of representatives as we discussed pretty good for democrats overall. there's a sense in many

democrats i've talked to that the democratic party brand is a broken brand in huge swaths of the country and they have to work to fix that. one intriguing thought i've heard from a number of democrats across the spectrum, they are sick of interest groups telling them, sign this questionnaire, and tell us what you stand for. check these boxes. they feel like they need to define themselves more freely, much like donald trump did in his own way, and a lot of that definition is going to happen now in reaction to trump. the action in the states is going to be fascinating. people like governor stein, forming what amounts to an opposition and a rebuilding of the party. >> jonathan: you were at the rnc when they did an autopsy after romney's loss in 2012 that basically talked about the need to have a, you know, a more open approach on things like immigration. so i don't think the republicans exactly went in the direction of that autopsy. >> no. >> jonathan: but democrats need

an autopsy? >> this is an opportunity for democrats to become the center-left party for the united states, whether they will take it or not, whether they're able to tell those groups i think will be up to the next presidential nominee. he defeated the democratic party in 2016. democrats need a leader like that to transform their party if they want to, but i also think republicans can overread their mandate. donald trump's campaign strategy wasn't what pushed him over the edge or also we would have seen him winning in his targeted demographics. he didn't. he won with every demographic. he improved in every state except what? one or two, in every demographic. that is the fundamentals. that's the 40-pound curling stone going down the ice. the little sweepers in the campaign weren't the difference maker here. >> let me just say one last thing. we were given a prescription, a 50-state strategy. we have to become a party that knows how to elect people in all 50 states. of course, d.c. and more, but

that's -- that's our job this time. >> jonathan: all right. final word, donna brazile. we'll be right back.

>> jonathan: that's all for us today. thank you for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news tonight," and have a great day. "world ne and have a great day. season of conflict and controversy may be over for san jose state's women's volleyball team. the challenge on the court for the team at the center of a potentially landmark lawsuit. >> and what a view from mount tam, where it is 51 degrees, it is much milder. we have a spare the air alert today, a few sprinkles well up north and fog

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