this sunday, closing strong. the president prevails on some big votes during the session of congress. ban on gays and lesbians in the military has been lifted. >> the final product proves when we can put aside the partisanship and the political gains, when we can put aside what's good for some of us instead of what's good for all of us, we can get a lot done. >> what will it mean for the economy and jobs and what's the political fallout for 2012? the afghanistan war grinds on, but to what end? how many troops will come home next summer? what are the administration's priorities for the new year? this morning an exclusive

interview with the vice president of the united states, joe biden. then, analysis on the president's leadership and how washington will change in 2011 with the republican house of representatives. political roundtable weighs in. host of msnbc's "morning joe," former republican congressman from florida, joe scarborough, mayor of newark, new jersey, democrat cory booker. republican strategist and co-founder of no labels and former adviser to senator john mccain, mark mckinnon and nbc news chief foreign affairs mccain, mark mckinnon and nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell. captions paid for by nbc-universal television eight republicans join with democrats to end the ban on gays

and lesbians in the military. fell short of the 60 needed to overcome republican opposition, the fate of the new start treaty, nuclear arms treaty with russia, which will continue to be debated today in a rare sunday session. i sat down late friday with the president's point man in dealing with congress, the vice president of the united states, joe biden. >> welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be back. >> good to have you here. it's an important time. end of the week saw you and the president closing a very important deal. this compromise over an extension of the bush era tax cuts, a bill signing at the white house, striking and yet not a republican there, mitch mcconnell for the first time. so, a new era, perhaps in washington. the bottom line is the focus on getting people back to work. what does this deal mean to the end of that goal? >> two things. number one, every model, every basic economist out there says, look, this will grow the economy faster next year than it would have. the projections are instead of

the economy growing at -- the gdp growing at roughly 2.5%, some suggested it would grow as high as 4%, that means employment. more people employed, number one. number two, this wasn't just extending the bush-era tax cuts, instead of all the tax cuts for the middle class and all the tax cuts for the poor that were in our legislation, the obama legislation, we came up with a tax cut of 2% for everybody who gets a payroll check and on their -- not the employer, the employee gets a 2% -- for example, someone making 60% a year is going to get another $1,200 on top of the middle-class tax cut. we continued all those tax cuts for the working poor, so-called eitc, earned income tax credits and maybe, most importantly, we were able to extend for another 13 months unemployment insurance for those devastated by this recession. >> what about the prospect of eliminating uncertainty and what may be the first of the 2012

campaign, mitt romney said this doesn't solve the problem. it's not good for committee because businesses understand in a couple of years, these rates are going back up. >> no. look, here is -- businesses don't care about the top-end tax cut except those people making a million buck, those are the ones that care. what the businesses care about are the extension of all of those tax cuts for business that we extended, co-called extenders. we provided for 100% extension. a guy right knee runs a contracting company, he buys a $50,000 backhoe, he can extend that in one year now. that will encourage him to go out, buy, build. one target for us in two years is no longer extending the upper income tax credit for millionaires and billionaires and scaling back what we had to do to get the compromise, the estate tax for the very wealthy. >> the president says he thinks he can win this argument.

>> he can. >> why not do it now? why wait until the 2012 election? do you really think during an election year that anybody is going to vote not to extend the tax cuts? >> i do. >> what will be different? >> i think what will be different is we will have had the outcome of the deficit commission, be able to make the case much more clearly that spending billions of dollars over ten years to extend tax cuts for people whose income averages well over $1 million does not make sense, number one. number two, we're not going to be able -- we're not in a position, david, where we're going to have, god willing, the shaky economy where we could not afford to continue uncertainty for a month or two or three into the next year, had we not made a deal, which would actually grow the economy. the obverse is equally as true. had we kicked this into next year, it would have created such uncertainty and a number of economists thought it may, in fact, induce a double-dip recession. we avoided it getting worse, we

made it the -- the prospects much better. >> the irony of achieving this tax deal is that it does represent a broken promise by this president in how he campaigned, in how you campaigned as well. in september you were interviewed by my colleague, rachel maddow and had this exchange about the fight overextending the tax cuts for wealthiest americans. let me play a portion of that. >> does that mean that letting the bush tax cuts expire for the richest people in the country while pushing for their extension in the middle class tax cuts for everybody else, is that a black and white issue? is that a -- we haven't heard a veto threat yet from the president. >> it is a black and white issue. >> the administration is going to go for the mat for it? >> absolutely. >> that was september. december, you didn't go to the mat. >> we did go to the mat. we went through every -- i went through a total of 130 races out there, campaigning for democrats. every single race, i made this case. here is what happened. we got to the end. we couldn't get it done. and we had to make a decision.

where are we going to let the middle class tax cuts expire? the house passed middle class tax cuts only. it got to the united states senate. we supported that decision and the senate could not pass it. now we're left with do we let those folks going to bed tonight staring at the ceiling, wondering if they'll nb that same bed next month, those 200 people that already lost their unemployment insurance this month, 7 million more losing it next month and economic uncertainty occur? life is a matter of tough choices. >> the president wrote in "audacity of hope" that he found the tax cuts for the wealthy morally troubling. is that still his belief? >> still his belief. >> yours as well? >> mine as well. >> but you're willing to compromise on that? >> the idea is to compromise to save people who are drowning. there are people out there, drowning. there are 2 million people this month that can't afford to go

get a christmas tree, let alone buy any gifts, because their unemployment has run out, which means they've been unemployed for well over a year, two years. it was unfortunate we were put in a position where the republicans made it clear they were ready to let everything fall unless they got these tax cuts. they're for two years. they're for two years and we're coming back and going at it again. >> can you be thought of as being serious of cutting the deficit when, in 80 hours of announcing the deficit commission's proposals, this administration agrees to add a trillion dollars to the deficit? >> absolutely. look at what the commission suggested. they suggested we do exactly what we did. they suggested we have a payroll tax. they suggested that we stimulate the economy this year and the next year. they suggested that this has no impact on long-term debt, because it's for two years. look, you know this. the only people that will agree with me when i say this are the economists listening, left, right and center. in the middle of a recession where we're just climbing out of

it, the economy, unemployment is still at 9.7%. the idea of raising taxes and reducing spending is a prescription for disaster. no one is suggesting that. >> is the balance to that point -- do you think do we think the balance is out of whack? larry summers, the president's top economic adviser, he says the priority next year should be more spending. you're the shuttle-ready projects guy. there should be more investment in infrastructure. should there be more of that before we focus on bringing down the deficit? >> we can do both. let me explain what i mean. the omnibus or the -- i'm sorry to sound like a senator here, but in the spending proposal for next year, we freeze discretionary spending. freeze it. freeze it. we think we have to start by -- all those things were tails on them, long-term impact, we should not be spending in those areas and we should be freezing

or reducing. on those issues that have no long-term deficit -- look, the entire recovery bill -- i know you know this, but the entire recovery act of last 18 months, roughly over $18 billion, it added two-tenths of 1% to gdp. the places we have to go are the thing that is have tails, that are long-term commitments of the government. that's where the problem is. that's what we have to attack. >> you brought up spending. i want to talk about this earmark issue, not to sound wonkas, lawmakers put these into the budget. democrats had a defeat, pulling back their big spending bill, eliminating the ear marks yet harry reid took on the white house, wasn't happy with all of this and said this, this week. >> i am convinced that i do not want to give up more power to the white house, whether it's

george bush or barack obama. and i'm going to fight as hard as i can against president obama on these earmarks and my republican colleagues who hate to vote for them, but love to get them. >> bottom line is if there's some temporary measure to keep the government funded will the president, down the road, veto a bill that includes earmarks or not? >> david, if the question is, in order to keep the patient alive, we have to use a medicine we don't like, we may have to do it. i'm not going to -- >> he greted when he has done that in the past, regretted signing a bill with earmarks and after the election it was a new day. >> look, in that budget that is being debate d to keep the government running for the next month and year, there is a freeze in discretionary spending, also there is an increase in spending for our troops that are in the middle of a war, those two things, we

think, are essential. now, if you say to me, do we have to accept a project in -- by the way, there were six republican appropriators who supported this, who had earmarks in. if we say we have to support a levee in mississippi in order to make sure my kid, who is out in the middle of iraq and afghanistan, gets what he needs, i'm going to say yeah. i don't want to do it, but i may have to do it. it depends on the proportions. it depends on what's at stake. harry just reinforced the point we've been making. we don't like earmarks. the democratic leader is criticizing the president of the united states because we don't want earmarks. >> you may not like it, but there's no veto threat? >> there is. it depends on the proportion. it could be very well that you end up in a situation where you say in order to support the troops in afghanistan, we have to accept an earmark and that's what the congress sends us.

are we going to veto a bill that harms our troops? no. conversely, if we could take a chance on losing on, yeah, we would veto. >> as we sit here today, a repeal of the ban on gays and lesbians serving in the military, it looks like, will be successful. it will be repealed. >> we hope. >> that is as we sit here today how it looks. what will be the impact of that happening? >> the impact is we'll be in line with seven other allies around the world. we will not be squandering the abilities of combat soldiers as well as interpreters who happen to have a different sexual preference, who happen to be gay or happen to be lesbian. look, all of our major allies have, for some time now, provided for -- the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, secretary of the defense, the vast majority of the american people say whether you are gay or straight does not affect

whether you can shoot straight or whether you can speak or do. >> what about the star treaty, nuclear arms treaty with russia, do you have the votes to get that ratified as we sit here today? >> i believe we do. >> what's holding this up? political gamemanship by republicans? >> with john mccain, there's substantive criticisms. he was worried about whether we would make good on our deployment to deploy all four phases in europe. we are. there are other legitimate concerns. 18 hearings, 1,000 questions we've answered and -- but another is they just simply are against any arms control agreement. that's the category that -- when i say any, they're simply against this arms control. senator demint is absolutely against it. it wouldn't matter what it said. conversely, there are people like senator mccain and leading republicans like johnny isaacson

in georgia who thinks it is a good sub ststantive thing. i might add, every former republican secretary of defense, secretary of state, national security adviser and head of strategic command says this is essential for u.s. security. >> let me move on to foreign affairs. i want to talk about the fallout from the wikileaks scandal. julian assange appeared on the "today" show friday morning and said there are more leaks to come. >> wikileaks is a robust organization. during my time in solitary confinement in the basement of a victorian prison, we continued to release -- media partners continued to write stories. the important rev layings from this material continue to come out. we have approximately 2,000 cables. >> more to come. should the united states do something to stop mr. assange? >> we're looking at that right

now. the department is taking a look at that. i'm not going to comment on that process. >> you think he is a criminal? >> if he conspires to get these classified documents with a member of the u.s. military that's fundamentally different than if somebody drops on your lap, here, david, you're a press person. here is classified material. >> some say he is a high-tech terrorist. others argue it's closer to the pentagon papers. >> i would argue it's closer to being a high-tech terrorist than the pentagon papers. this guy has done is things that have damaged and put in jeopardy the lives and occupations of people in other parts of the world. he has made it more difficult for us to conduct our business with our allies and our friends. for example, in my meetings --

you know i meet with most of these world leaders. there is a desire now to meet with me alone rather than have staff in the room. it makes things more coupleb bc. it has done some damage. >> you have been described in "the new york times" as, quote, obama's in-house pessimist on afghanistan. are we winning or losing in afghanistan? >> let me separate this out and remind everybody what our goal is. our over-arching goal and rationale for being there is to defeat -- dismantle and defeat al qaeda, residing central al qaeda residing in fatah, the western regions of pakistan. secondly, to make sure that terrorists do not, in fact, bring down the pakistani government, which is a nuclear power. toward that end, we think it's important that there be stability in afghanistan so that

al qaeda cannot re-establish it as a base from which to attack the united states of america. with regard to our efforts to degrade al qaeda, we're making great progress, so-called ct. that is, counterterrorism, the use of special forces and the like to go after individuals who make up the leadership of al qaeda and of the taliban. on the issue of counterinsurgency, that is where we clear, hold and build and transfer. we're making progress not as rapidly as we are on the other front. in his release, pointing out that we need two things that we're working on very hard and making some progress. one, pakistan and safe havens and, two, governance in afghanistan. >> all of this is so complicated. >> it is. >> after ten years, mr. vice president, can you even say straight whether we're winning or losing? doesn't the american public deserve to know where we stand? >> up with thing i've never been

accused of is speaking straight. are we making progress? it remains to be seen. we said after seven years of neglect of an afghan policy when we came to office, we had to sit down -- i went back to afghanistan at the president's request, came back with a recommendation. we said we had to clarify our objectives and decide what forces we need to sustain the possibility of meeting those objectives. we are honest with the american people. we're making progress on all fronts, more in some areas than in others. we are going to, come july, begin to draw down american forces and transfer responsibility to -- >> would that be a token amount of soldiers? a couple thousand troops or more? >> it will not be a token amount, but degree to which we draw down -- if i can make an analogy to iran -- excuse me, to iraq, which i've been put in

charge of. what happened there? we signed three years ago an agreement with the iraqis saying that what we're going to do is two summers ago we're going to draw all combat troops out of the cities, populated areas. then our administration, we're going to draw 100,000 troops out the next summer and we're going to be totally out. meantime, we'll help to build a government. we'll transfer responsibility and we'll be gone. that's exactly what we did at the recent lisbon conference, nato conference where we said we're starting this process like we did in iraq. we're starting it in july 2011 and we'll be totally out of there, come hell or high water, by 2014. >> let me ask you something that's on a lot of americans' minds. number one goal, preventing another terror state in afghanistan from where terrorist attacks can be launched. we know what happened with the christmas day bomber during the holidays last year. what is the capacity of al qaeda or affiliated organizations to

pull off a large-scale terror attack against this country? >> you never say never, okay? but we are -- our intelligence community is united in the view that the ability of central al qaeda -- that is, osama bin laden and company in those mountains has been significantly degraded and we don't believe they have the capacity from there to pull off a 9/11 type operation. but what has also happened, as you've noticed, in the arabian peninsula and other parts of the world, there are al qaeda-related affiliates not under the direct control of osama, but yet engaged with him. they are planning much smaller war, but yet deadly attempts to go after the united states of america. we saw that in the underpants bomber last christmas, we saw that in a times square effort.

there are going to be continued efforts to be coming out of other places other than the fatah -- excuse me, other than pakist pakistan, where bin laden is. we have significantly degraded and knocked off a lot of the main planners, organizers and trainers. does that mean we succeeded? no. does that mean we're in much better shape than we were a year ago? and two and three? yes. >> you know this town pretty well. you know politics in this town very well. president obama has just come through a real tough election. what is the key to turning things around for him? >> the key to turning things around is that having everyone understand the message of that election. we understand it. the message is the american people wants us to cooperate. wants us to work together. that's why if we get the start agreement, we'll have the lame

duck session, they'll have heard the message that we want to reasonably compromise to move the business of the nation forward, as we just did on the economy with regard to taxes and growth as, god willing, we'll do on national security with regard to start. and i think that's the message of the election. >> can't you understand a lot of voters look up to this president and say we're not sure we get him. is he a liberal? is he a moderate? is he a practicigmatist? >> he is a progressive leader who, in fact, understands that politics is the art of the possible and it's critically important to do two things. he knows his job has two over-arching responsibilities, promote economic growth and keep america safe. and so to the extent that he has to make compromises, don't compromise those two objectives. >> look, politics is the art of the possible. this is someone who campaigned,

both of you did, come in to washington saying business is going to change around here. so many new voters came into the process. they accepted -- >> by the way, that's exactly what the president did say, that business is going to change. remember, i ran against him in the primaries. i've always been a little less optimistic about the idea that somehow the republicans last year were going to join hands with us. the president reached out. he reached out in every way to the republicans last year to say, hey, let's work on health care. let's work on this. they made a very calculated decision. you know it and i know it. most people know it. i know it. they decided that it was in their best interest to see not much move forward cooperatively and it would hurt the democrats because they were in charge. they turned out to be reed right. but they got a second message. they found out that the public didn't like the democrats, but they sure in the devil didn't like the republicans either. and most polls show they like the republicans less. the message that came out, i

believe, and what you saw with mitch mcconnell and john boehner, both who were friends of mine who i worked with for years, they came out of this and said, we better get a compromise. can you imagine last year, the republicans agreeing on a compromise like the one we had here? they took things that are religion to them, which are no earned income tax credit. that's not a tax. that's a give away. we're not going to do that. guess what. there's $200 billion of that stuff. >> when you look at compromise, does vice president biden become negotiator in chief here on in? you have the relationships on the hill. >> you know, i get asked that a lot lately since this worked. that's been my role since the beginning. i met with -- i'm the guy that's gone up on the important issues to the house and i'm vice president of the united states. they know when i speak, i speak for the president. so, last year, everybody said, god, you know, if rahm emanual were here, he would have been going up to the house and the

house caucus. not true. it would have been me, whether here or not. just like last year on three important occasions. i was the guy that went to the house to try to sell them and, in two cases, sold them on what to do. look, i have -- one of the things that matters in this town -- you know it as well as i do. your word matters. there's not a single democratic republican who has ever worked with me that will not look you in the eye and say biden has never, ever broken his word. that's why i am able to go up there. i don't always succeed, but i like these guys. they're my friends. i've got a lot of these republicans that are my friends. >> one last question. i know you're a phillies fan. i'm a dodgers and nationals fan. >> i know. i know. >> cliff lee, are they the odds on favorite to win the championship? >> i think they are. >> with that rotation? >> i honest to god think they are. but last time we spoke, i told you i still thought we had a chance to make it into the series this year i was obviously wrong about that. but i really do.

how many people said we'll never, ever, ever sign him? >> that's right. we'll leave it there. mr. vice president, merry christmas. >> where there's light, there's hope. analysis on the president's leadership as the 111th congress wraps up its work. what can we expect from both parties in the new congress? plus, setting the stage for the 2012 race for the white house. political roundtable weighs in, host of msnbc's "morning joe," joe scarborough, newark new jersey mayor corps eye booker, republican strategist and co-founder of no labels, mark mckinnon, plus nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell. we know why we're here. to chart a greener path in the air and in our factories. ♪ to find cleaner, more efficient ways to power flight.

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scarborough. >> i don't like talking about myself. >> mayor of newark, new jersey, cory booker. welcome to all of you. don't ask, don't tell, a significant campaign promise by the president. he got it done. that's been lifted. look at the bipartisan support he gets here. scott brown from massachusetts, but guys like richard burr from north carolina, john enson frigm nevada. >> this was a president who was for forced to go on jon stewart saying, yes, we can, but -- it was a president who has had to strike a deal with republicans, a who his base loathed. that tax bill was a big loss for the democratic base and for the president. so, this was something the president really needed, going into the new year, to explain to his base, this is one reason why

you like this man. >> mark mckinnon, john cornyn said this will do a lot of damage. this is what he said in a statement he released with three of the four military chiefs expressing clear reservations over the repeal of don't ask, don't tell. now is not the time to increase the level of stress on our armed forces through such a dramatic policy change. it is a disgrace that this latest item from the liberal legislative wish list is being jammed through at this expense of military readiness. >> i disagree with that. the tide of history is rolling forward and the president did the right thing and so did the republicans who crossed over. >> interestingly, andrea, how did they pull it off? don't ask, don't tell, looked like it was dead and it looked

like they would have to suffer this defeat and they came back. >> joe lieberman, susan collins, bipartisan in that regard. a clean bill that came over from the house. you have to give a lot of credit going back to the passionate and really moral stand taken by mike mullen, the admiral, who is the joint chairman. you cannot ask our men and women to tell a lie about themselves. that is against the whole conduct of the military code and that principle stand more reluctantly, but still going along with it, saying we serve. we will follow the orders. that outweighed what i think the combat of marines and front line voices were saying. >> mayor booker, you can look at the president's leadership, he hopes to get start treaty ratified as well and the tax deal, pros and cons. the president, as he signed the

bill, laying out what was accomplished but also what's ahead. take a look at this. >> now, candidly speaking, there are some elements of this legislation that i don't like. there are some elements that members of my party don't like. there are some elements that republicans here today don't like. that's the nature of compromise. in some ways, this was easier than some of the tougher choices we're going to have to make next year. there will be times when we won't agree. we'll have to work through those times together. >> what does this deal represent about how this president wants to approach republicans? >> first of all, let me say back to don't skrks don't tell, this is a week where we saw pragmatism prevail. the argument that won was military preparedness and this is another example where pragmatism prevailed. we are as a nation, this is a

bill full of things that immediately will benefit our economy. i look at my city, the expansion of unemployment benefits, something that all economists say will help, but incentivizing small business, in cities like mine, giving them tax credits for businesses they make. earned income tax credit, people going through college. all these things bring real benefits. of course, our liberal base might be upset and consider it a treason to go against his very firm stance, going to the mat on the issue of tax breaks for the wealthy. the reality is in the totality, this was a victory for pragmatism, and more importantly, a victory for people in our country. >> this is a president who is a progressive, but who believes politics is the art of the possible. is that the new president obama? >> yes, we can, but -- it's the reality. it is the reality that the

president has had to face up to. i have to say, though -- i have to take exception with something the president said. he said we're going to face choices next year that's going to be even tougher. well, there was nothing tough about this bill. in fact, it's frightening. it straps us with another trillion dollars worth of debt. just this summer in july, the cbo told the president and congress, if you guys don't get your act together on the debt, you're going to see our credit rating go down. that's going to lead to higher interest rates, which will lead to higher debts. it will lead to bonds collapsing. that could lead to the markets collapsing. it could lead to the united states looking a lot like ireland and greece. that was the warning. how did they respond? adding another trillion dollars to the debt. how did moody's respond? by saying over the next two years, we may have to devalue your bond rating just like ireland. it's recklessness. >> austerity has to wait. that's what you saw out of this deal. this president wants to do

everything he can to somehow move the needle on jobs, you know, in the next -- >> that's the politics, though. joe is absolutely right about the long term. basically, they have so raised the level from which to have to cut. to say we're going to get serious about deficit cutting in the future is really silly at this point. >> this happened a week, a week after the debt commission figured out how to shave -- >> but, mark, you see guys like larry summers and others who say we have to get the balance right. we can't move to austerity yet. we have to keep investing in the economy. >> this will focus on doing a real deficit reduction program and is significant tax reform. there's a great way to bring the parties together. i agree with the vice president. he said the american people want us to cooperate and want us to work together. that's exactly why we started no labels. 60% or more like this deal. >> no labels, no ties. i saw that on a bumper sticker.

>> we'll talk about no labels in more detail in a moment. mayor, what's going on in new jersey, your state, what's the real economic impact of this tax deal, do you think? >> first it's a hole we'll stop digging. this is a bill, in many ways, that continues digging and people worry it will run up the deficit in the long term. in the short term, it undeniably will benefit our economy, create jobs and sustain people who are hurting right now. we have a hurt of hurt going on in our nation right now. the reality is i don't like those false depates we create in america that often make for great spectator sports. that's not what democracy is about. it's about doing something that will advance our country. the attack on wealth. not tax cuts for the wealthiest that they're going to hold on to, but creating the right incentives in our nation, that incentivize research in our nation. those are good things to spend on right now, to build a stronger economy in the long term. >> also, andrea, in terms of

2012, republicans are lining up, mitt romney, mike pence, others who voted against this thing. >> the smartest thing the white house did, and the dumbest thing the republicans did, was the dream act. to go against giving a fast track to a citizenship, to infants who came here and have been growing latino community in 2012. that is going to turn out to be a real setback for republicans. these are people who wanted to serve in the military and get educated and contribute to the society. it is a win/win from the standpoint of the wall street journal and "the new york times." >> the pragmatism of it. we are a nation that built our country on immigrant. >> exactly. >> from einstein to some of our greatest scientists that have come in. high school presidents that have gone on to college. >> and is served on the front line. >> exactly. this is crazy. it's hurting america. >> quick comment from mark on this i have talked to

republicans as well. there's some setback here for the president's attempts to get immigration reform and republicans i talk to as well said i wish my party would stand up and get immigration done. president bush did it, perhaps at the wrong time, suffered for it, couldn't get it done, but it's been great for the republican party. >> it's the right thing to do. on pure politics, the republican party has to recognize the hispanics are the huge demographic in this country. we had 40% of the hispanic vote. in 2004, we got 40%. john mccain got 29%. we have to send the right signal to hispanics in this country. >> i want to take a quick break and talk about the problems that our country faces and how we'll respond. more strenuous.take up someg you have different needs and desires. - i'm reading a book. - what's a book? so we tailor plans for individuals, featuring a range of integrated solutions. - you at your usual restaurant? - son: maybe. see you tomorrow.

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we're back. joined by our political roundtable. look at this finding from our latest nbc news from our latest poll about how people feel where the country is headed.

63% think the country is off on the wrong track. political poll, a really good indication of the independent vote approximate and where that independent vote might actually go. no labels launch, the idea of an independent political movement that could somehow break ties and you had some pretty big figure ons the right and the rest. you also have been accused of childish magical thinking, frank rich from "the new york times." the the idea that the heavy lifting and moving the country forward could be accomplished by a no labels group is, many on the left and the right, just unthinkable. >> 63% of americans are disenfranchised with what's happening in washington because they see this harsh, poisonous environment and harsh partisanship, representatives from 50 states came to launch this organization, no labels, to address the hyperpartisanship. we've had great success already, we brought together harsh partisans on the right and on

the left, frank rish rich, rush limbaugh are attacking us, because when they work together for solutions, they don't want that. it doesn't help their ratings or their profits. frank rich attacked us in the "new york times" saying we only had three black speakers. obviously he didn't watch the event or is doing sloppy research because we had three prominent african-american speaker, including mayor booker. it's been a tremendous response from middle america who think we need to work together, like the vice president said. >> what about devil's advocate time here? why don't we recognize that politics is not a dirty game, that people have deemly held ideological views and differences and look at the republican party. it's become more conservative because a lot of republicans thought, and even independents, that it got away from basic principles. >> well, sure. but, as we've been saying for two years on our show, this is still james madison's constitution.

you have frank rich on the left, enraged by what mark is doing, rush limbaugh on the right, enraged. they have the luxury of never actually governing, never being a president, never being a senator, never being in congress, realizing that you actually have to, at the end of the day, sit down and deal with people across the aisle. you want to talk about magical, childish thinking, frank rich and the left have had a year of magical thinking right now. they believed they could get absolutely everything they wanted and when they didn't get it, they become petulant, went off in the corner. what did that end up getting them? about 80, 85 newly republicans elected in the leadership. there's not a pendulum swing ideologically in america. america stays in the middle. when you go too far left they slap you back and when

republicans go to far right, they slap you back as well. >> what does he do to actually make the politics difficult for republicans now? it hasn't been that difficult up till now. >> this is what's ridiculous and this is what president obama has experience on the streets of chicago really help out. you've got real people. my city, you have real people that don't care about politics or process. they're looking for progress. when it comes to issues like this tax bill, the president made a compromise to help americans who were desperately in need. this is what frustrate mees. seeing what's going on in newark every single day, i cannot advance our city with a republican governor unless we find common ground. working with the manhattan institute on issues, ex-offender reentry. there's enough common ground in the united states of america to stop this silly pulling least lest and right, which is good for the ratings, but does nothing to move our country forward. >> andrea, i want to get you on afghanistan. hearing the vice president, who made news saying 2014, come hell or high water, the united states is out of there.

that's a significant piece of news. >> it's a significant piece of news. he has always been one of the skeptics about the afghan policy. and the surge policy. i think that they realize they have to give people an end game, an end in sight. this country cannot afford it, not politically, not fiscally, to continue with no end in sight. with the evidence, really diminished in their report this past week, they did not focus on -- there were other reports, the corruption of that government, the fact we don't have a partner there. tragically, we don't have richard holbrook trying to hold people to the fire, what was called his diplomatic wing man. >> responsibility again. it's the first time in the history of our country when we went to war and we gave tax breaks at the same time. the cost of this war, upfront cost over $1 trillion right now. >> hold on a sec, though. barack obama tripled the number of troops in afghanistan and he just doubled down without really

giving a big fight with the tax cuts. >> the vice president said it was significant. >> it's not significant. with all due respect to the vie president of the united states, we just told our nato allies a few weeks ago to ignore that 2014 deadline because we're going to be there past 2014. they went to the nato conference and said, okay, we know about 2014, but it's actually going to be extended beyond. if you're keeping score in afghanistan, the generals -- >> i think -- >> andrea, in pakistan where -- >> 2014 and beyond. >> if insurgent and al qaeda can still hide in the sanctuaries in afghanistan and pakistan, what are we turning over to? >> our station chief there, whether or not they have evidence of that. that shows the attitude, lack of cooperation. as long as pakistan is such a pit, really, of instability and a nuclear armed country, you're

not going to have the outcome in afghanistan you want. but what they are really doing now is forecasting a way out, whether barack obama is there to see his way out in 2014, i think they think it is critical. just last night, i was with an officer who is just back and has been told they have to return. and i stood and watched the look in his -- it was a male officer. look at his wife and saw the tears welling up in her eyes, as they're acknowledging what's happening in their life. he has just returned from a tour. we cannot sustain these multiple tour. >> this has been going on for a decade. if the generals want them there another dk aid, i guarantee you we're not out in 2014, if they continue to take the course they're taking. and our allies are karzai and pakistan. that is a nightmare. >> the public is already saying it's not worth it. you also have a president now that is giving firm deadlines and a clarification. we're not nation building.

we're trying to disrupt and dismantle terrorism. that's a singular mission. >> let me get a break in here, quick break and come back with final thoughts from our roundtable after this. ♪

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♪ to build tomorrow's technology in amazing ways. ♪ and reshape the science of aerospace -- forever. [ female announcer ] around the globe, the people of boeing are working together -- for the dreams of generations to come. that's why we're here. ♪ to button up our conversation, if you've seen "time" magazine, person of the year, mark zuckerberg. mr. booker, you spent time with mr. zuckerberg, what he's trying to do for education is significant. >> global knowledge-based economy is education. you can't have a first-class society and the math not even in the top 15. it's great to see mark zuckerberg, who is a genius in

creating wealth, and communications, this interwoven that we have, but doubling down on education like gates and walleden and some others. >> it's the new form of american patriotism. we'll see a big push on this, the competitiveness of america is tied to how good our kids are doing -- >> it's more than tied. it's essential. we do not have a great education system, we will fail as a democracy. >> and the asian countries are completely out -- >> that's our new moon shot. >> president obama, michael bloomberg, cory booker, conservatives all together, education reform. you guys could do some great things this year. >> good note to leave on. before we go this morning, andrea mentioned that we remember richard holbrook, who died monday at the age of 69, iconic diplomat, he worked for every democratic president since john f. kennedy, end of the boss

nene war. he appeared on this program five times, his first appearance back in 1976 was not as a newsmaker but managing editor of foreign policy magazine when he was part of a panelled journalist questioning the prime minister. that is all for today. we'll be back next week, day after christmas. special discussion on the incredible year of 2010 and what to look for in 2011 and 2012. doris kearns, peggy noonin and bob woodward. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] some people just know how to build things well. give you and your loved ones an expertly engineered mercedes-benz... ho ho ho!

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