remove congresswoman gabrielle giffords from a ventilator, meaning she is able to breathe on her own. remarkable approximate progress after the tragedy in tucson. she remains in critical condition. two other victims besides the congresswoman are still in the hospital. joining us now, democratic senator from new york, kirsten gillibrand, welcome. it's good to have you here. what can you tell us about how she's doing? >> she's doing great. i talked to her husband, mark, last night. she is making progress. and if there's anyone in the world that will recover fully from this kind of crime and unbelievable injury, it's her. she has courage. she has drive. she has spirit. and i really think her courage is inspiring all of us right now. >> you talk about her condition. you two, of course, good friends dating back to when she and you came into the congress. has she actually been able to speak? >> no, no. it's far too early for that.

she's making progress every day. she's using both sides of her body. she's able to breathe on her own. she's able to open her eyes and show people she understands what she's hearing and seeing. it's an extraordinary amount of progress for a woman who sustained such a horrific injury that she did. >> incredible moment during the memorial service this week when the president, who had visited with the congresswoman when you were in the room, as well, spoke about a big development when she opened her eyes. this is how he described it. >> a few minutes after we left the room and some of her colleagues from congress were in the room, gabby opened her eyes for the first time. gabby opened her eyes for the first time. >> describe what that moment was like. >> well, the moment the president said that? >> being in the room. >> when the president said that, the room erupted. these are her constituents. they love her. they're seeing her recovery as a

story of triumph over terrible happening. because of her courage and strength, she can overcome this. being in the room at the time was an extraordinary moment, a moment you really can't imagine. but it literally was the will of her husband, drawing her out, saying, can you see? can you open your eyes? can you see me? she let him know by giving him a thumb's up that she could see and that she could actually understand what he was saying. it was an extraordinary moment. it was all about her courage and her strength. >> what sense do you have being in the room and with her husband, mark, who has been such a tower of strength through this, that she has a sense of what's happening around her and this outpouring for her? >> just when debbie wasserman schultz and i were there with speaker pelosi and she squeezed our hand, it was very clear to us that she understood everything we were saying. she's a fighter. she will overcome this. i think we can all take a lesson from her.

gabby is one of the most nonpartisan people i ever met. she truly epitomizes what the president said in his speech, that we, as a nation, need to be better than we are. that's who gabby is. she comes to service with the idea of helping people and bringing people together. she really is someone we can all look to, as she struggles through this because of her drive, because of her courage. we can all take from our strength and, hopefully, as ourselves, be better than we are. >> she certainly would be a voice in our conversation? >> absolutely so. and she was before this incident. she was somebody who called us all to have a better discourse, to respect each other's positions. we had tough issues. there are so many difficult issues right now. an economy is still suffering, being so close to a 10% unemployment rate. in new york, families are suffering. they really are having a tough time making ends meet. so, we have to, as the leaders,

as a body of government, come together and do the people's business. that's what the election is about. the election was about a demand by americans to say, we need you to put these partisan politics aside. we need you to get the people's business done. we need you to fight for solutions because we are suffering. small businesses are still having difficulty growing. we're still having difficulty creating the jobs that are necessary to grow us out of this tough economy. that's what we're called to do. i think gabby's story certainly inspires me and can inspire all of us. >> thanks for updating us this morning. we appreciate it. look forward to having you back. >> thank you. the chair of the democratic policy committee, senator chuck schumer and the senator from oklahoma, tom coburn. welcome to both of you. congress gets back to business this week, back to the agenda. there's going to be a new piece. on the cover of the week magazine, locked and loaded, guns, politics and the tucson

tragedy. i want to read i want to read what the president of the brady campaign said enough is enough. tucson shooter, arizona new faces of weak gun laws. the 22-year-old shooter in tucson was not allowed to enlist in the military, was asked to leave school and was considered very disturbed but that's not enough to keep someone from legally buying as many guns as they want in america. arizona is one of only three state that is allow residents to carry loaded, hidden guns without background checks. arizona recently weakened its laws to allow guns in bars. laws to allow guns in bars. in addition the congress had not allowed the assault weapons ban to expire in 2004, the shooter would only have been able to get off ten rounds without

reloading. instead, he was able to fire at least 20 rounds from the 30-round clip. >> let me say i certainly agree -- i want to begin this on the same note that your last interview with senator gillibrand ended. we believe in discourse, but we have to keep it civil. and i think that tom coburn and i are good examples. we've worked together on legislation that we disagreed with. the 9/11 bill, which passed. it had to be changed, but it passed. even on the issue of guns earlier on, several years ago, we worked together on trying to tighten up the records system so that if you were adjudicated mentally ill, you couldn't buy a gun. i think we can make progress. let me say this on guns. there are certain things that can be done that don't even require legislation. after jared loughner was interviewed by the military, he was rejected by the army because of excessive drug use.

by law that's on the books, he should not have been allowed to buy a gun, but the law doesn't require the military to notify the fbi about that. in this case, they didn't. so, this morning, i am writing the administration and urging that that be done, that the military notify the fbi when someone is rejected from the military for excessive drug use and that be added to the fbi database. >> what about the number of rounds, senator coburn, ammunition clips? lawmakers have legislation proposed that would limit that. is that where the debate should go? >> i don't think so. we're missing a bigger problem. we obviously have an unstable person who, multiple times and encounters in different levels in our society, people worried about. he was pushed back rather than somebody intervening and helping this individual. and so we need to be -- make sure we fix the right problem

here. and one of them is mental health. and how do we put our hands around people who are so disturbed -- if you read all the reports on jared loughner, almost every encounter he had with people, people were concerned about him yet nobody grabbed hold of this young individual and said you need to be helped. you need to be taken under care. and then had he been, he would have been reported, never been able to buy again. >> the reporting aspect of this, senator schumer, you just talked about it. even the pima community college in tucson, they recognized a mental health problem and saw it as a problem for their community and they discharged him from the school, kicked him out of the school. but then there isn't a follow-up for the community that would lead a gun store to ask some follow-up questions, to connect the dots. >> i think there are three areas we can look at. the possibility was to get bipartisan cooperation on these. the first is, as you mentioned,

looking at the laws of somebody who is mentally ill, who is clearly disturbed in terms of them getting a gun. as i said, a few years ago, a mentally ill person, someone adjudicated mentally ill, a little different than in loughner's case, shot a priest in a parish on long island and we tightened up the law. we worked with the nra, tom coburn was involved and the law is tighter and better. this is an area we need to explore. second, the military notifying people who are rejected because of excessive drug abuse. my belief on the clips, i was the author of the law in the house, senator feinstein in the senate, to limit the clips to ten. i spoke with senator feinstein this week. she's recuperating from surgery, minor surgery, and we're going to look at that again. meantime, senators lautenberg and mccarthy are introducing a bill and that might move. laute and mccarthy are introducing a

bill and that might move. >> you don't really expect much traction here? it's not the normal enthusiasm i would expect from you on this issue. >> well, look, twofold. first, we want to be civil in the debate. so, we're making every effort here. second, and respecting somebody's views who are different than ours. second, look, let's be honest here. there haven't been the votes in the congress for gun control. we've had some victories, mental illness bill that i mentioned. there was a proposal by senator soon that said if you had a concealed carry permit in one state, you could walk into another state. so, laws like arizona, someone could buy one there and come into new york and not even notify the police. that was defeated. make no mistake about it, the changes are hard. senator feinstein tried to bring the assault weapons ban back on the floor and it didn't pass. we're looking for things where we can maybe find some common

ground and get something done. >> senator coburn, the politics are tough on this and senator schumer reflects it, because democrats know it's a difficult fight. look at the public attitudes about stricter gun control measures since 1990. we have a graph we can show you. 78% favored it, down to 44% in 2010. that being the case, even as a supporter of gun rights, as congresswoman giffords is, can you not look at areas of access to weapons, but also looking at limiting the scope by these magazine clips and saying there may be something that's common sense here? >> again, i would tell you that let's say you pass that. if you have somebody that is a criminal, that wants to get around the law, they're going to get around the law. the problem with gun laws is they limit the ability to defend yourself, one. number two, the people who are going to commit a crime or do something crazy aren't going to pay attention to the laws in the first place.

and there's numerous examples the last few years where concealed carry has, in fact, benefited people, especially, for example, in colorado springs where an individual with a concealed carry stopped somebody who was going to kill multiple people in a church, and wounded them so they could not continue to do that. it's a controversial issue. the fact is, i would go back -- let's fix the real problem. here is a mentally deranged person who had access to a gun that shouldn't have had access to a gun. how do we stop that? there's a hole in what we need to do. i'm willing to work with senator schumer or anybody else that wants to make sure that people who are mentally ill cannot get and use a gun. >> one more on this, senator schumer, what about the security aspect of that, and self defense? there are members of congress in the house who have said when they go out to similar kinds of constituent meetings, they're going to bring a gun. former member delay said on "hardball" on msnbc, he would be

happy with people with concealed weapons, so that anybody who tried something, they would understand that they're going to defend themselves. is that the right response? >> there is a right to bear arms. it's in the constitution. you can't ignore it, just like you can't ignore the others. like the other rights, tea not absolute. first amendment, we have laws against pornography. you can't scream fire falsely in a crowded theater. there should be limits on gun laws as well that still protect the individuals' right to bear arms. just a little something about your survey this showed the success went down, the brady law has been a huge success. gun violence went down. the number of people killed by criminals who had guns has declined. to me, it's an indication that smart, rational gun control laws that protect the right to bear arms, but have reasonable limits are the way to go. >> i want to talk about a few agenda items for congress

getting back to session. i do want to ask about political discourse and where this conversation should go. ron brownstein writes in his column, a column entitled apocalypse always and he makes in conclusion to the piece, when political arguments are routinely framed as threats to america's fundament character, the odds rise that the most disturbed among us will be tempted to resist the governing agenda by any means necessary. is that the real problem? a description of political discourse as being apocalyptic, having such direction for the country? >> i think that's a false premises, totally. i've pretty well been disgusted with all the media, right and left, after this episode. what it does is raises and says ere's a connection. the president rightly said, there was no connection to this.

there was no political discourse to this event. >> senator coburn, you know as well as i do that there are people -- and it is true that it's very often on the right -- who describe president obama as somehow an outsider who is trying to usher in a system that will do two things, that will injure america and deny them of their liberty. do you condemn that belief and try to reject it? i'm not managing a sweeping generallization and certainly not tying it to the event. that in and of its is a strain of thought, is it not? >> there's no question, there's all sorts of strains of thought. the problem i have with the premise, david, is that we're disconnecting what the real problems are in our country and spending all this time talking about political discourse rather than talking about the real risk to our country, which we need to quit paying attention to what all the media says. we need to start watching, as chuck schumer has said, what we say. >> it's fine to take on the

media. a lot of people would support you in that. that's fine. i asked you a very specific question. do you reject those who believe that the president wants to injure the country and that will deny americans liberty? and do you think violent metaphor of any kind is simply over the line and political discourse? >> of course i reject that. but the point is, we are spending all this time talking about something that has nothing to do with the events and what the real problems are, we're not spending time working on it. >> is that a fair point, senator schumer? senator coburn says this is a false premise i've introduced. >> let me say this. violent discourse in political life, right, left or center, is wrong and should be rejected. but i do think we, as elected officials, have an obligation to try to tone that down. if we tone it down, then maybe the media will be less

viciforous. let me give you an example. calling for the democrats and republicans to sit together. i called up toum taum and he graciously agreed we're going to sit together wednesday night at the state of the union and we hope that many others will follow us. that's symbolic, but maybe it set ace tone and everything gets a little more civil. we believe in discourse in america, strenuous discourse. we don't sweep differences under the rug. we have real differences but we can do it civilly. to tom's credit, we disagree on a lot of stuff but he has always been civil, always been a gentleman and that's the example that people should follow, politicians and the media. >> senator coburn, about sitting together, assuming you're on board with that as well, that is symbolic, but what message do you hope that sends? how do you make this a moment that transcends this particular time when everybody has congresswoman giffords on the top of their mind? >> i think the key, david, is

people go back to motive and what we can't question is our president's love for our country, chuck schumer's love for our country. and where we get in trouble is when we start looking at motives rather than differences of ideology. and i think where we've had problems in the senate, it's been small. but the fact is that always comes about when people are questioning motives. i think people in the senate love this country. we have vast differences in how we believe what will be the best course for our country, but i believe the question of motives is something that ought to be set aside. we don't have the lincoln-douglas debate. some of the problems in our country is we talk past each other, not to each other. chuck and i have been able to work on multiple bills, because we sit down, one on one, and work things out. and what we need to do is have more of that, not less of it. >> can i ask you -- we have about a minute left. i want to get a couple of issues

in here and get your thoughts. >> one minute. >> about a minute. senator coburn, harry reid has said this is an exercise in futility. you're a doctor, of course, and you have paid attention to this. if change is not possible, what do you think can reasonably be made to health care reform? >> i think we ought to try to repeal it, because we ought to build the basis that we've gone in the wrong direction to solve the real problems in health care. the real problems in health care is it costs too much. we've expanded the coverage, but haven't worked on the cost. and we haven't allowed any market forces to do it. even though senator reid says it's not going to get a hearing in the senate or get to the senate floor, the fact is we're not through with the debate on health care in this country. i think we've gone, as a practicing physician, we've lessened the impact between doctors and patients with this

bill. it's the most personal of things in the country and is going to be taken over and managed to a degree that it should never be, by those who are not involved in the doctor/patient relationship. my hope is that the debate will be good for us. >> senator schumer, do you think there can be an amendment, some kind of change to health care reform? >> let me say this. first, we welcome, in a certain sense, their attempt to repeal it. it gives us a second chance to make a first impression. there are so many good things in the bill, the donut hole, the fact that insurance companies, which just can say you didn't dot the i or cross the t kick you off. annual checkups for senior citizens, which saves billions. dr. coburn knows how important preventive medicine is, and so many other thing that is didn't get an airing during the debate will get one. there are some things we can work on together, repealing the 1099 provision, which puts too big of a burden on small business. and what dr. coburn said,

getting rid of -- the bill did a good job, but it can go further in getting rid of the duplication, the inefficiencies in the system. we have the best health care system in the world and the most inefficient. if we can work together in cutting those costs without damaging the good health care people get, that's an area for bipartisan agreement, i think. >> final question here about what eric cantor in the house called a leverage moment on the debt ceiling. it has to be raised. we have to keep borrowing money, even though we're so deep in debt. a certain amount of spending t cuts, before they raise the debt ceiling, do you think that agreement can be reached? >> i think not renewing the debt ceiling is like playing with fire. our soldiers and veterans wouldn't be paid. social security checks wouldn't go out. worst of all, we might permanently threaten confidence

of the credit markets in the dollar, which could create a recession worse than the one we have now or even a depression. so, that is playing with fire. i was glad to see that both speaker boehner and eric cantor said they're not going to use that as a threat. we're going to have to come together on spending, no question about it. we democrats agree there ought to be spending cuts in the appropriation that came up last year, late last year. the mccaskell legislation to cut spending than originally was proposed in the budget. there are things that need to be funded. >> senator coburn, does there have to be a significant amount in cuts before you vote to raise the ceiling? >> for me it does. i've had conversations with the president. look, the debt ceiling, we had warnings last week from the rating agencies that we're going

to get a downgrade in our bonds. a debt ceiling nonincrease is nothing compared to what's going to happen to us if we don't address the real issues facing our country. cbs poll out this morning, 77% of the people in this country believe we need to cut the spending significantly. only 9% say we need to raise taxes. the fact is, i believe the president and the bipartisan majority in both houses know that we can come together before the debt ceiling and reach an agreement that says, here's where we're going to be and here's what we must do to send a signal to the international financial community. if, in fact, we don't raise the debt ceiling, that won't be near the capacity that if, in fact, the bond vigilanties come after the u.s. government bonds in the next two to three years. we will have such bigger pain than not raising the debt the ceiling. >> i will make that the last word. senators, thank you very much. coming up, more of the state of political discourse in this country. might we see a return to civility in arizona, as congress

gets back to business on several highly divisive debates. reverend al sharpton, chairman of the special olympics, tim shriver. from "the new york times," david brooks and from "the wall street journal" peggy noonan. for three hours a week, i'm a coach. but when i was diagnosed with prostate cancer... i needed a coach. our doctor was great, but with so many tough decisions i felt lost. unitedhealthcare offered us a specially trained rn

who helped us weigh and understand all our options. for me cancer was as scary as a fastball is to some of these kids. but my coach had hit that pitch before. turning data into useful answers. we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. how are those flat rate boxes working out? fabulous! they gave me this great idea. yea? we mail documents all over the country, so, what if there were priority mail flat rate... envelopes? yes! you could ship to any state... for a low flat rate? yes! a really low flat rate. like $4.95? yes! and it could look like a flat rate box... only flatter? like this? you...me...genius. genius. priority mail flat rate envelopes. just $4.95. only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship.

could the events in arizona change our attitude about security and civility in politics? yellowbook has always been good for business. but these days you need more than the book. you need website development, 1-on-1 marketing advice, search-engine marketing, and direct mail.

yellowbook's got all of that. yellowbook360's got a whole spectrum of tools. tools that are going to spark some real connections. visit yellowbook360.com and go beyond yellow. [ male announcer ] from jet engines that have fewer emissions, to new ways to charge electric cars, to renewable sources of clean energy, ecomagination from ge is advanced technology

that's good for both the economy and the environment. ♪ it's technology that makes the world work. [ squawking ] ♪

from "the new york times," columnist david brooks and president of the national action network, al sharpton. i had the gun control conversation with the two senators. i detected quite a bit of caution about whether this is really the debate that moves forward. >> i'm not sure that's where the progress is going to be made. we never underestimate the power

of a great speech. we had the fighting earlier in the week, brought the country together. as the folks at alcoholic anonymous know, you have to fake it before you make it. we have to change our behavior. how do we do that? we have to have our president put forth an agenda to work together. if he did a big tax reform thing, republicans and democrats could have a conversation. the way to change the budget so we progress more in productive rather than unproductive things. then if you get the people talking together, it could lead to something. you need to change the agenda, not just the words. >> peggy noonan, you writing for president reagan during "the challenger" disaster. here is what the president talked about when we talk to each other and we fiercely disagree. let's show a portion of that. >> at a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized,

at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who happen to think differently than we do, it's important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we're talking with each other in a way that heals, not in a way that wounds. >> it is interesting. what we were doing in the immediate aftermath of this, some people were engaging in exactly that, conversation that was wounding and not healing. what has the president accomplished? >> at that exact moment, he took the air out of the fingerpoi fingerpointing and blame game. he took the air out of that. that was a good thing.

at the same time, as a president, political leader of a great nation, you cannot often enough remind people that especially in e technologically wired world we have, it all gets too hot out there. you've got to cool it. you've got to calm down. we have huge disagreements in this country. if we stick to the facts and show respect, the right side probably will win. coolness, that was the message. >> bringing it out of the shadows where there can be a broader sense of community. the community college seemingly doing the right thing for that community and getting rid of jared loughner, after he had done a number of things to be both mentally unstable and violent on campus, and talk about violence. but go iing from there where he cannot just walk into a gun store and not have questions

asked of him. >> i think that's where we have to start with the sober reality of how we govern. the president made a great speech and rose to the occasion but the devil is going to be in the detail. how do we build a governing way, mechanism, to where the community college detected, translated it to those in the federal and state criminal justice system, to really watch this guy, deny him a gun license? i think what was said, what are the policies we can unite around? i would like to see the country come together on education. newt gingrich and i were here last time on education. i don't want just people silting together at the state of the union. i want them, while they're sitting together, to say we can do this together, we can bring about change to education, because there's still a huge

gap. if we just sit together and kumbaya for one moment and then never come together on policy -- i don't minimize the huge difference, but there has to be common ground we seek. >> the mental illness discussion and also this leadership piece. it matters about not just making this cum bchkumbaya and sitting together. obama is not just our super disaster coordinator, he is aur leader noted tim shriver, the chairman of special olympics. and being a leader means telling the rest of us what's our job, what do we need to do to make this a transform active moment. in the speech, christina green, what she expects us to somebody what we need to be. that he can actually call people out. is there something real about

that? >> i think what everybody is saying is right. the polishes are really serious and profound. there are great details. peggy was making this point where there's a moment of cha e change, where the dialogue changes from being acrymonious and name calling to what got the president elected. they're asking to be called to a larger purpose. they're asking to be called to play a larger role in their future. they're asking, they're begging, 50% of our young people report being chronically disengaged from school, not attached to any group, any organization, or any purpose larger than themselves. this horrible young man was one of them. we shouldn't, however, identify him as the only problem. the problem is that the country is hungry to be challenged, to be engage ed president opened t door for that challenge to be heard and opened the door to our hearts, frankly, to be responsive to that challenge

when he inspires us to do so. >> john mccain, peggy, has an op-ed out this morning that's interesting in terms of setting this tone. on one hand, he defends sarah palin, who he feels is unjustly attacked and connected unfairly to this. but i'll read what he wrote, a portion of it. i disagree with many of the president's policies, he writes, but i believe he is a patriot, sincerely intent on using his time in office to advance our country's cause. i reject accusations that his policies and beliefs make him unworth toy lead america and i reject accusation that is americans who vigorously oppose his policies are less intelligent, compassionate or just than those who support them. our political discourse should be more civil than it currently is and we all, myself included, bear some responsibility for it not being so. it probably asks too much of human nature to expect any of us to be restrained at all times,

for committing rhetorical excesses that exaggerate our differences and ignore our similarities. that's important. >> hear hear. it is important. and cannot be said often enough. people need to be reminded. we live in a world where somebody, on the comment thread on an internet says that guy is a son of a gun. he's worse than a son of a gun. he's a murderer. someone says he's worse than a murderer. he's a mass murderer. we live in a culture where everybody is hepping up somebody else. the american people in general, are not worried at night about the low level of civil discourse and political discourse in the united states. they're worried about the jared loughners. they're seeing their culture

produce more of these, as timothy says, aimless young people, sick young people. nobody feels free to move towards them and say we've got to subdue you because of our beautiful love of freedom and our fear of being sued and our fear of -- >> how do we address the idea that some people need involuntary treatment? arizona has the ability to do that. anybody can call and say this person needs a mental health examination. >> first, alienated kids who are here and then mentally ill kids who are here. we've had a bipartisan, in the shape of ronald reagan and others, policy of saying people are in charge of their own lives. we're going to get you out of institutions. you're in charge of your own lives. the problem, there are a number of people who don't have the facility to understand their own lives and make decisions. we sent them out on the streets where a lot of them are homeless. we sent them out of the jail where they are committing

violence. we have to reign back that policy and say people who are mentally ill are not violent, by and large. people who are receiving treatment are not violent. it's a small minority. we have to be able to have authority that we can trust and will put community safety over some individual freedom and say we are going to commit you, make your take your meds, even if you don't want to. that's going to raise some -- >> can i say quickly? sorry, very quickly. part of the theory behind the policy you speak of was in the psychiatric community and the professional care community that was suddenly in the '70s and '80s this theory that those we call insane are not really insane, they are the sanest critiqu critiquers of an incoherent society around us. it was crazy. it did a lot of harm. it allowed people to be on the street who shouldn't be. i'm sorry. i'm sorry. >> the institutionalization was the right thing to do. what it did depend s on and

counts on is community support, not just security. obviously, security is critical, for this small people that have this risk of violence. we don't have community supports designed to accompany for people with illness, disability. they still feel alone. they still feel that they don't belong. in general, they don't feel supported by the communities. people look at them and walk the other way. they cross the street. we're not educating kids to understand them. we're not even asking kids in their own schools to reach out and form friendships with someone with a disability, an illness, be a buddy, a mentor, understand differences. we have done the right thing on deinstitutionalization and done the wrong thing on building the kinds of community support. >> with loughner, would you say at some point somebody has to say, i'm sorry, you have to take that -- >> who is that somebody? before we dismiss the political discourse debate, the problem is when we get to how we execute, it's going to take leadership.

and if the leadership of the country is so acrimonious and so busy with a poisonous debate themselves, we will never be able to get to those dealing with the mentally ill or those that are isolated because the leadership is so busy taking shots at each other. that's why we need to have the discussion with political discourse. >> there was backlash this week with sarah palin, blaming the media of blood libel, she says, connecting this. no evidence to connect her and her rhetoric to all of this. nonetheless, this is going on. minneapolis star tribune about tim pawlenty running for the presidency -- not officially, but on his way. civil manner right for the times? his mild tone contrasts with rancorous debate in the wake of arizona shootings. is this a game changer for political attitudes as we move

to a major presidential election year? >> i hope it is. i hope it's a game changer in the sense that we take out all of the acrimony and irresponsible rhetoric on both sides. and i hope we judge people now based on their substance and being able to give leadership in the areas we are talking about. and i think that it has gotten way off track, up until this moment. i think the president's speech could put us in that direction. but if we don't solve that, we can come up with all of the great things in the world we want to do about the people like jared. we won't get them done if we're taking shots at each other. >> little more pessimistic. what's the route of civility? i don't want to get into the reverend's business here but it's aware of how sin you are, how weak you are and because of those shortcomings, you need the conversation and you need other people to correct you. we've had a culture which has downplayed sin and, therefore,

people think my way is the right way and 100% of what i want, that's what we should have. that's a deep problem to get over. >> a lack of humility. >> let's get back to this and reflect on reverend martin luther king jr., whose birthday, of course, is tomorrow. more from our roundtable, after this. ♪ >> woman: good night, gluttony-- a farewell long awaited. good night, expected. >> ( yawning ) >> good night, outdated. >> ( click ) >> ( whimpers ) >> good night, fluffy. and good night, stuffy. >> ( clinking ) >> ( chewing ) >> good night, old luxury and all of your wares.

good night, bygones everywhere. >> ( engine revs ) >> good morning, illumination. good morning, innovation. good morning, unequaled inspiration. >> ( heartbeats ) what's around the corner is one of life's great questions. and while it can never be fully answered, it helps to have a financial partner like northern trust. by gaining a keen understanding of your financial needs, we're able to tailor a plan using a full suite... of sophisticated investment strategies and solutions. so whatever's around the corner can be faced with confidence. ♪ northern trust. look ahead with us at northerntrust.com. nope. see, hotels.com has over 20,000 last minute deals every week.

so i get a great deal, no matter how long i wait. yeah... i'm not very good at waiting... then we must train you to wait. [ bird squawks ] ♪ [ both scream ] it is time to book, grasshopper. [ male announcer ] now, it's ok to wait. get great deals. even at the last minute. hotels.com. be smart. book smart. we're back, with more from our roundtable. couple of big moments to reflect on. 50 years ago, president kennedy's inaugural address, talking about service to the country, something we've been talking about in the course of this political discourse. of course, the reverend martin luther king jr. and his birthday tomorrow. he was on this program. we sometimes do a "meet the press" minute or "meet the press" moment. back in 1967, talking about the

d disparity between african-americans and whites. >> it's okay to say to people lift yourself up by your own boot straps but it's careless to say to a bootless man to lift yourself by your own boot straps. and they've been left poverty, illiteracy by lack of education opportunities and as a result of centuries of neglect and hurt. >> we talk about area where is the two parties can work together. reverend sharpton, you've been talking about this. education and the achievement act. if reverend king were alive today, this would be the area that he would be working on, you think? >> achievement gap based on race in this country is almost as bad as it was in '54 when brown versus the board of education

decisi decision, the year i was born. whether it was economic, as dr. king in that moment, in '67 talked about. the wealth gap and the gap in terms of employment is still a problem. so, we are trying to make steps tomorrow. secretary of education duncan and i will be with randy winegarten. it's not about teachers. it's not about that. it's about trying to find common ground much it's not about beating up on union workers. dr. king died in membphis going down for the afscme union. we're blaming the deficit on unions rather than the fact that all of us did not put the kinds of safeguards i think we should on the economy, to where some got away with huge amounts of money and the poor remain and the middle class started sliding to the poor. dr. king dealt with that as his last issue, and i think these are the kinds of things that if we're going to celebrate dr.

king, we're going to deal with what dr. king was. don't take kingism out of dr. king day. >> the top 25 african-american leaders of all time, a survey coming out tomorrow, and it find that is president obama in the survey that will be released, is a close second to dr. king jr. david brooks, certainly education, then, becomes a big piece of what the president is trying to accomplish here. in divided government, does he face more of a challenge in terms of leaving no child behind? >> a, it's his best performance on this issue, but access, getting people access to education, now it's in terms of giving them the tools to get through these. giving people mental skills in order to deal with a teacher. that's a tougher deal. but someone in education sent me an e-mail and said i've never been so optimistic by education reform in this country and i've

never been so pessimistic about government in this country. that's about where i am. >> what about president obama's ranking? >> african-american scholars and intellectuals. i'm waiting to see the results of other surveys. i think dr. king definitely was the figure that changed access. we wouldn't have had a president obama, had we not had access. but i think we're in a different age now. because those of us that engage in civil rights now, unlike those in the past, have to deal with how you hold a government accountable with a black head of state, black head of the justice department. and president obama, it is unfair to ask him to be martin luther king. he is not an activist. and dr. king didn't run a government. so the blessing of the progress we've made is we have different roles now. and the best thing that they can do is do their role. the best thing that president obama can do for civil rights and be the best president in the world, not for blacks, for everybody. it shows we can perform. i think when we put everyone in this one dimensional thing, that

is bias. it's acting as if we can only do one thing. i think that we can do many things and that's what king wanted us to have the right to do. [ male announcer ] this is the evo 4g. this is android. which powers the evo. this is something nice someone said about the evo. so is this. ♪ and this. and all this. ♪ and this is the new htc evo shift 4g. a smaller evo with a slide out keyboard. only from sprint, the now network. now there's even more to talk about. trouble hearing on the phone? visit sprintrelay.com. and all my investments, but it's not something that i want to do completely on my own -- i like to discuss my ideas with someone. that's what i like about fidelity. they talked with me one on one, so we could come up with a plan that's right for me, and they worked with me to help me stay on track --

or sometimes, help me get on an even better one. woman: there you go, brian. thanks, guys. man: see ya. fidelity investments. turn here.

we're back, our last couple of minutes. tim shriver, you wanted to connect this thought of what happened in arizona with what reverend sharpton said. >> dr. king, we still live in the legacy of what he fought for and how he did t he was accused of being an extremist. i think we have to remember that he accepted that label when he said i want to be an extremist for love. i want to be an extremist for justice. he was able to fight with enormous passion, not with a muted voice, but with an enormous, powerful voice, but do so in a way that was completely nonviolent and completely open to the voice of the divine, if

you will, and others. we remind our kids, they, too, can be an extremist for love, teach them how to understand themselves, be self aware, how to connect with others and solve problems nonviolently, so that they, too, can have the tools to be kind of extremists in building a better country. >> peggy? >> i think dr. king's manner as a leader, his lovely gravity and seriousness, and his adherence to talking about big things, not small things and petty things was an unknown and almost unnoticed contribution to his age. let me say quickly on education, i would be optimistic about it, too, because the biggest thing that has happened in the past year in education is the extraordinary success of two documentaries, waiting for superman and the lottery. the reaction to those films made leaders on both parties and leaders on the right and left come together in agreement that we can move forward on the

schools if we do specific things. i think obama should use it as his nixon to china. >> and state of the union, arizona, education, these are big things? >> yeah. there's something we can all do. i'm for a quota system. talk to a liberal or a conservative. if you find yourself getting out of whack, correct it. >> i think we must use dr. king's methods of nonviolence, yes. remember, he had concrete goals. he used those methods to get specific civil rights, specific voting rights act. we can't just operate 40,000 feet in the air. we have to think high and then come to concrete resolutions, education, protecting of the unemployed. we've got to be concrete. otherwise, dr. king would have just been a dreamer. he was more of that. he changed reality. >> we'll make that the last word. thank you very much. last week with an exclusive interview mantle leader of the

house, eric cantor. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 tdd# 1-800-345-2550 if anything, it was a little too much. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 but the moment they had my money? nothing. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no phone calls, no feedback, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no "here's how your money's doing." tdd# 1-800-345-2550 i mean what about a little sign that you're still interested? tdd# 1-800-345-2550 come on, surprise me! tdd# 1-800-345-2550 [ male announcer ] a go-to person to help you get started. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 regular detailed analysis of your portfolio. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 for a whole lot of extras at no extra charge, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 talk to chuck. tdd# 1-800-342550 but when i was diagnosed with prostate cancer... i needed a coach. our doctor was great, but with so many tough decisions i felt lost. unitedhealthcare offered us a specially trained rn who helped us weigh and understand all our options. for me cancer was as scary as a fastball is to some of these kids. but my coach had hit that pitch before. turning data into useful answers.

we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. >> woman: good night, gluttony-- a farewell long awaited. good night, stuffy. >> ( yawning ) >> good night, outdated. >> ( click ) >> good night, old luxury and all of your wares. good night, bygones everywhere. >> ( engine revs ) >> good morning, illumination. good morning, innovation. good morning, unequaled inspiration. >> ( heartbeats ) you're having sudden warning signs like dizziness, headaches, slurred speed or numbness could mean you're in trouble. act fast and call 911 at the first sign of stroke.