tech evangelist guy kawasaki reveals his successful strategy of swearing at work. just one tip to enchant your peers and make the sale. and geek dad and blogger ken denmede with ways to thrill the kids and what dad really wants for father's day. our reporters, becky worley and kim mcnicholas, this week on "press:here." good morning, everyone. i'm scott mcgrew. on wednesday, the online music service pandora became the latest tech company to offer shares to the public for the first time, richly rewarding its

early investors. and nobody was earlier to pandora than guy kawasaki's garage ventures. >> it always has to pass the test, you know, would i find this interesting? >> kawasaki is an investor in dozens of companies, from car stereos to ceramics for aerospace. >> and lift-off. >> but kawasaki is more than a vc. he's an evangelist. >> and it has turned out insanely great. >> one of the first apple employees to promote the mac computer back in the day. now a shameless self-promoter with more than 300,000 twitter followers and ten books to his name. his latest, "enchantment: the art of changing hearts, minds and actions." one of the blushes for guy's new book calls it the best since dale carnegie wrote "how to win

friends and influence people." guy kawasaki joins me with kim worley of yahoo! kim mcnicholas of forbes. you laughed when i called you a shameless self-promoter, so we're off to a good start. let me start with just the current news, pandora. you were very, very, very early to pandora. >> yes. or very fortunate. >> yes, you were. why? why were you so early to pandora? what did you recognize? >> somebody working for the technology ventures at the time, we're an early-stage venture firm and bank at the time, recognized this concept that, you know, people wanted to find music. and when they pitched us, they used this really great term. it's a lesson for many entrepreneurs. they said we're going to find the music genome. and you just hear music and genome, and you think, wow, man, this has got to be a cool company, so i was there. >> but it's not making any money. i mean, we have -- >> details, details! >> compared to what? >> it made money for guy

kawasa kawasaki. >> compared to what? >> yes, at least someone did. >> what makes money? is that a prerequisite? >> it's so 1.0. >> wait, 1.0, you didn't make money, 2.0 you did. now 3.0. >> why is it we're seeing such a trend of companies, zip car, demand media, you have zillow, pandora, that aren't making any money now. so, what's really the attraction there? >> well -- >> is there reason to be concerned? >> people are investing in future cash flow, obviously, right? and i think right now, we're getting back to this attitude that, you know, is it worse to invest in something that loses money or to miss an investment in something that's going to make a lot of money? and i think the logic now is, you know, we don't want to miss the train, which is very different than for the past three years it was we don't want to get on any train. >> and i think you have to believe in pandora. if you believe as an investor -- and i'm not saying you should -- if you believe in pandora, that it will at some point -- and we

had tim in that seat once, and he said at some point, it will -- then i suppose it's worth looking into. >> one thing it does have going for it i think right now is the fact that music prices are, in fact, falling, correct? >> yes, and it is being incorporated into so many things. it's not simply the internet. it's going into devices now, right? so it's getting more of the adobe model. >> and that apple hasn't figured out the streaming business. that's the other reason why they should be ipo'ing now. and people are delighted about it. to use steve jobs' own words, it's a great service and the consumer loves it. it will make money if they have the infrastructure and they're ahead of apple. >> just to show you what great pl training i've had, i'm going to take this and go from pandora to my book. >> that would explain to the viewer why there's a giant butterfly on the shot as well. >> yes. >> did you write a book, guy kawasaki? tell us more about it! >> i think it's hiding. >> so, writing much of the book, i was listening to the pandora

adult contemporary station. so, see, there is a link. we're making a transition from pandora -- >> are you saying you wrote this book to smooth jazz? >> kind of, yeah. >> okay. i've read it, so i'll take that as -- >> it explains a lot? >> yeah. if you're considering reading this, that's not a bad thing. >> well, my favorite radio station in san francisco used to be smooth jazz, and then it went to some different format. so you know. >> you had to find your smooth jazz on pandora. >> that's right. >> all right. >> one of the things that struck me about the book, and there are a number of interesting tips in it. let me ask this first question, and that is, it's how to enchant people, how to be friendly to people. there are things in there like the firm handshake, to which you have to say, well, duh. >> and there's a mathematical equation. >> there's a mathematical equation. but defend the duh part first. well, okay, you smile and shake peoples' hands. well, duh, guy. >> there's lots of duhs in it. the problem is that even though it's a duh, several duhs -- good

smile, good handshake, appropriate dress. duh. but how many people do you know -- >> who don't do the three. >> -- who don't do the duhs? so, if i were to skip the duhs and go straight into it, you know, it's hard to be enchanting with a great product, great service and all the other stuff if you have a pathetic handshake, pathetic smile and you're dressed inappropriately, so i have to cover the basics. >> fair enough. let's get to one of the ones we didn't expect, and that is, every once in a while, swearing at work. >> i knew you were going to say that. >> tell the story where it came from. two tech journalists knocking heads. >> it was leo versus michael, and michael arrington is seen as, shall i say, an aggressive personality? [ laughter ] >> i'm not sure he's ever coming back to this show. >> yeah, so, he was kind of

accusing leo of, shall i say getting a phone free and early. >> he started talking about the free phone, saying hey, you got it free, how could you review it fairly? >> and you know, everyone gets phones for free and you review it -- seldomly do you go buy a car -- >> and arrington knows that. >> he's done it more than anyone else. so, he was trying to impune leo and leo ripped him one. >> with swear words. >> with swear words. so, my thing with swear words is you have to use it in specific surroundings. first of all, the audience has to be at least neutral, but preferably, positive towards you. so it's leo's audience. you know his audience is going to support him. so that's one. two, use it very seldomly. if you're just a dirty mouth all the time, it completely wears off. >> the impact is not -- >> yeah, there's no impact. and the third thing, you have to use it in a situation where it's, like head-smacking, these people are insulting my intelligence -- >> you know you're right.

>> you know you're right, and you know everybody else thinks you're right, but you have the balls to just rip them, and that's very enchanting. can't do it ault time. it's very interesting. >> well, i think it's enchanting to show emotion. people are so afraid to show emotion in the business world and the tech world. well, i also love the other thing you wrote at the end of that chapter, which chicks, don't drop the "f" bomb. double standard. >> there is some double standard there. >> mm-hmm. >> because the way that's interpreted is either, you know, she's trying to be something she's not or she's trying to fit in with the guys. i mean, i sat on a panel where a woman said, you know, i have to either be really sexy or i have to be the dits. you know, that's the only way to succeed as a woman. and i said, you know, why? who told you that rule? that's just not true. you should just be yourself, so. >> but it's really, can i say, the jerks? since we're saying everything. the jerks in silicon valley that are the most successful people.

>> they're not enchanting. >> exactly. you have the non-enchanting seo, michael arrington, marc benioff from sales force. well, now he 's getting more an more enchanting. >> can i tell you a funny story about him? >> please. >> please. >> when i was at apple, we ran the software group and we had to have sample programs for developers so they could see how it was done. so, mark be marc benioff was on graduate students and he's from hillsboro and he's, you know, big and white and whatever. you know him, right? so, we used to call him the hillsboro dough boy. and so, no matter how powerful, no matter how many billions of dollars, ferrari, porsche, i look at him and only see the hillsboro dough boy. >> errs never getting "tech crunch" back on this show and

we're never getting marc benioff of salesforce.com on this show. >> but let's go back to the point that even if you're aggressive, even if you're perceived of as being a tough person to be around or being critical, you are out there and you are emotional and you have strong feelings and people rally around that. and i joke about michael arrington, but he gets people's emotions flowing. it's amazing! >> you know what? i think it's dangerous where people say, oh, can we use bad words in this segment? >> go ahead. we'll bleep them. it's only sunday morning, for goodness sakes! >> so, what i'm afraid of is that people say, oh, this person is successful, this person is an orifice. if i'm an orifice, i'll be successful, too. so it's not clear that being an orifice -- i can't even say it -- being an orifice causes you to be successful. it could be that once you're successful, you can be an orifice and get away with it. but that doesn't mean you should say, all right, they're an orifice, i'll be an orifice,

i'll be successful. it's not true. >> explain why there's a butterfly on my desk. >> this is the kawasaki swaddle tail. i had a design -- >> was it named that before, or -- okay, yes, very good. >> i had a contest to design this cover. it came out with the blue stock photo of mine and the publisher said too feminine, no man would buy this cover. so, i had to come up with a better butterfly. so, i contacted a guy named michael lafaus, who's the wayne gere gretzky of origami, and i said i needed this butterfly. i want you to imagine a butterfly, think of a blue morpho butterfly that had sex with a b-2 stealth bomber. what would it look like that? and that's it. so, that's why it's on the cover. >> guy kawasaki's new book is called "enchantment." always enchanting to have you here. thank you for being here this morning. >> thank you.

up next oppren "press:here, dad who does not mi being called a geek. a bit of father's day advice when our program continues. whe? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to the planet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this. it's a smart way to go. ♪

welcome back to "press:here" and happy father's day. ken denmead is author of to "greek dad's guide to weekend fun," making superhero capes and measuring the speed of life with your microwave oven. ken runs the wired magazine blog "geek dad" in his spare time, joined by becky worley of yahoo! and kim mcnicholas of forbes. so, though i am one, explain to me what a geek dad is. >> it really appeals to a whole lot of people, but i tend to think of it as people who grew up a little nerdier, the science, the math people, but you know, always a little bit outside of the popular culture way back when, and oddly enough, the popular culture has caught up with that a little bit now. >> come back to us, yes. >> but the interesting thing is we've all grown up and we're now parents and we've got kids.

and you know, normal culture hasn't always sort of, you know, looked on the things we love as great things to be doing or teaching your kids, but we're here to support the geeks that are parents now and telling you, you know, what's the best stage to show your kids "star wars," and which episode goes first, you know. >> well, episode three goes first, right? or episode four. four, four, four. >> okay. that was close. really close. >> had to think about that. what's your favorite geeky thing to do with kids? and you write in your blog about geeky things. what's the good one? what's the best one? >> i mean, the quickest and easiest way to sort of bond with your kids on geeky stuff these days is video games. and it blows me away how, you know, when i was growing up when i was in elementary school, the coolest thing in the world was at tari 2600, awesomest 8-bit game. i used to go to my buddy charlie's every week just to go, you know, i wanted to play -- he didn't want to play his 2600.

i wanted to play it. and that was the sort of rare thing. they were out there, but it was rare. but it's evolved to become such a part of our culture now that video game releases are as big as movie releases, even bigger in some cases. and it's something we can share with our kids now. >> i love it. i play dance central with my 3-year-old twins. >> there you go. >> i mean, the interface has become so easy now with things like kinect, that that's easy to share and do together. >> i love the story of the actor will wheaton told after his first son went off to college. they would still be on xbox live. they would connect and play video games together. it's just a great thing. >> i get the sense, and obviously, i can only compare my own dad, who i thought was a great dad. he and i didn't share cultural things the way that i think i do with my kids. >> yeah. >> i share "top gun." i say, watch this movie. i promise, you'll like it. and i don't recall my dad taking something from what, the '50s or '40s, where he would have been

watching something and saying trust me, you're going to like this, in the same way. is it that our culture's compressing somehow or -- >> technology's really brought us closer to together from generation to generation. >> it's so much easier. back then, how would you have done that? >> a dvd from when i was a kid! yeah. >> also, our dads didn't covet our approval the way our kids covet our approval. it's a very different cultural thing. >> there could be a little truth to that. >> i have one question, which is, when i cook with my kids -- they're little -- i get to this point three-quarters of the way through, where i say "follow directions!" and how do you -- >> let me do this part. no, no. okay. >> how do you keep your cool and make this, you know, whole, all the way through, a good father-daughter, father-son experience? >> well, i mean, leadership is leadership and parenting is parenting. and you know, you don't want to do anything that's going to make them, you know, no longer like the activity. so, failure is always an option. >> yeah. >> you can let kids fail and then walk them through that. >> that's a really good point.

>> i agree with that. we had steve levy on a couple weeks ago, talking about the guys from google went to montessori and montessori teaches you you are the directions, and that's been fun. and they teach that idea of, well, what happens if you push the button? push the button, find out. >> we have become sort of e-mail, twitter buddies simply because his book keeps showing up next to my book on amazon, and it's like -- >> yeah, his is "50 dangerous things you should do with your kids." >> children and fire! i can't imagine. >> and there has been an idea that chemistry sets, no, they're dangerous. >> oh, that's terrible. >> or power tools. no, my goodness gracious, we couldn't let children have power tools. that's how, properly supervised, you learn about a lot of things. >> exactly. growing up, my dad always had a workshop. they built additions to their homes and built houses and stuff. i learned how to do that and i

got to be the one kid in high school that was left alone in the shop to build stuyt i'm doing that with my kids. showing them how to do that stuff. the chemistry set thing, it's horrible. there's only maybe one chemistry set out there that you can find online that actually still has, you know, comes with all of the beakers and parts and comes with actual chemicals. oh, my goodness. >> yes. >> real chemicals so you can do experiments. it's a tragedy. >> maybe the experimentation is a little less dangerous. how dangerous can coating be -- well -- >> more hands off, i suppose that's possible. with the time we have remaining, explain to me how you measure the speed of light with a microwave. >> this is really hard -- >> and isn't this dangerous? it's a microwave! >> well, lest you burn the chocolate. which i know, that would be a tragedy in and of itself. it's a real simple thing. the scientific process here. you know how a microwave works is it's shooting electromagnetic waves, and every time they cross and they enforce each other and

there are little hotspots created by these waves hitting each other or crossing each other, and those hotspots are what will excite, like water molecules in whatever your food is in there. and so, there's a plate in the microwave and it spins because it's moving your food through the hotspots. >> through the waves. >> to try to eat as much as possible. what you do instead, pull the rotating thing out. take like a chocolate bar, put it on the flat side, so the nice, mat side of the chocolate bar. put it on a paper plate, set it in there. don't want it to spin. close it. nuke it for 10, 15 seconds. pull it out, you're going to see spots on the chocolate bar -- >> of the waves. >> those are the melt points, which means those are where waves were going through the chocolate bar. every other spot is equal to the wave length of the waves that were going through. >> becky, your thinking, yes. >> look at the sticker. there's a sticker on the side of the microwave. that's the frequency.

frequency times wave length equals speed. >> and there we have it. >> and that's the speed of light. and then you can eat the chocolate. >> wait a second, i was told there would be no math. there's going to be math here? >> i'm sorry. if you're a geek, you have to have a little math. ng >> your book is "the geek dad experiments --." >> "the geek dad's guide to weekend fun" is the new one from last month. stuff like that, hacking toys and putting them back together in new and fantastic ways. just basically great ideas for parents to do stuff with your kids, when you're out of your own ideas and want to have fun. >> and when we're watching sunday morning and the store is closed, geekdad.com, right? >> geekdad.com. geekdadbook.com for all the info on the book. >> ken denmead.

welcome back to "press:here." we're always happy to introduce a new reporter. becky worley of yahoo!

as well as, i think i've seen you on "good morning america," as well. >> yeah, i've been on "good morning america" for coming up on five years now, including -- >> and look, we have a clip! >> oh, yes. and it's very strange. i was the technology, you know, contributor for many years, and i still do all of the technology stuff, but also, somehow became technology on shapewear. i have tested in the last two weeks, i've tested caffeinated pants for weight loss and snake repellent. >> is that what we were seeing? some sort of bra or -- >> no, that was a shapewear, we're going to call it. >> shapewear. >> shapewear, that's the technical term for -- >> i think spanx is the brand name, yes. >> you got it. you got it. >> all right. >> also working for yahoo! and hosting a show they do there. somebody called me the martha stewart of technology, and i'm going to run with that, yeah. >> we'll take it as a compliment. >> we tested the old myth of putting your phone in rice after it's in water to dry it out. >> and? >> blackberry works after two days. droid and iphone, no joy. but i got lots of comments saying you have to leave it in

there for a week. >> what are you going to do without your phone for a week? may as well get a new one. >> just stay home. >> and you've been a host of, first of all, "tech tv." i was a huge fan. one of my absolute favorites. >> such a great time. i started in '98 and was producer for "call for help" and "the screensavers." was like going to grad school and getting paid at the same time. we were just a bunch of inmates running the asylum. that family of viewers and also people that were on the network, there was just this deasper and they've gone all over the place, but there's a core group of people who remember "tech tv" and just thought, gosh, that was before its time, you know? >> i think my comcast bosses say it still exists in some forms. >> g-4 is there. >> g-4. >> and i think they just signed up for a big bunch of wrestling they're going to put on the network. so, it's not quite what it used to be. >> no, not what it used to be. >> the technology's not the same. >> no. >> what's your most memorable moment? you've done a lot of different segments. >> you know, that's a really good question.

i mean, i would just say that -- well, probably for me, i worked with leo la porte a lot stuff, and i was doing a facetime from, i call it the magic room. you know after the apple events, and they take you into the room where they have the new product? and association i had a little headset on and i was doing a face time interview -- >> via cell phone, yes. >> while he was going live on his podcast, and steve jobs walked up to me. >> wow. >> and i just turned the camera right like this and started talking to him, and i thought -- and he talked back to me. and i thought he probably is just curious what i'm doing with his technology. >> sure. >> and there i was live broadcasting with steve jobs, using the technology that he had brought about. and i thought, this is just meta in meta, but it's cool, you know? >> those moments are few and far between. >> yes, they are. >> because not many reporters get steve jobs in front of a camera up close like that. >> much less, his own camera. >> yeah. >> this is also the second or third time that leo la porte has come up in this show, which is

fascinating. we need to have him on some time. kim mcnicholas, we have video of you. what are you doing? you've done this before. >> so, there's a group of 150 techies from silicon valley and festers and all those type of folks who go to maui every year and we go kayite boarding and there's deals getting done on beach. quite a few deals, actually, done on the beach. it was built by charles river ventures and you have folks from silicon valley bank, ceos that were there. we were helping him to tighten his little thing around the waste. >> the kite boarding thing. >> so, you tell him to tighten his belt? did you mention it financially? >> exactly. no. >> how do you get or what happens when you get that many hi high-tech, powerful people together? is it -- i mean, take us behind the scenes. is it lots of talk about tech or much more casual than that? >> a lot of people think it's just about kite boarding and i think that's just the icebreaker. but i can tell you, there were

seriously, i think over the past three years, several million dollars in deals getting done. i think they were talking about $10 million to $20 million, you know, in deals. seems small, but when you're talking about deals on a beach, that's quite a bit. >> i love it i'm from maui, so i love the idea -- >> she's going next year. >> a, i'm going, and b, bring your business to maui. thank you, geeks! go there. >> every sport the tech does seems to be -- and you document this on your blog -- is somehow, high-energy, high-adrenaline, that kind of thing. >> oh, they love adrenaline and they're always looking for something more, something bigger, something better to do. we've talked about it in my "personal best" series on forbes, we have aero pattics pilots. i've played underwear hockey with an executive from silicon vall valley. >> my cousin, linda. >> yeah. >> thank you very much, and welcome, becky. >> thank you for having me on the show. appreciate it. >> "press:here" will be back in just a minute.

that's our show for this week. you may have noticed we kind of bounced around a bit on the schedules to try to make room for nbc sports. well, we are back to this, our regular time slot. that said, you can watch any episode any time, both on itunes and on our website, pressheretv.com. oh, and happy father's day, dads. go back to bed. the lawn can wait until next week. i'm scott mcgrew. thank you for making us part of your sunday morning.