[captioning made possible by nbc universal] >> this is "the chris matthews show." >> i can hear you! chris: the old company of mitt romney is his claim of fame, where he made his name and a quarter million to boot. will the obama team make it a memory he'd like to forget? one year to go, obama will play populist, sticking it to wall street, saying he wants to stop the rich from getting richer. what will romney say if he's the challenger? and finally, you're fired. it's like that show on

television. it is the show on television. the tv debates have starred romney but all the other contestants were knocked off faster than a quiz show except for herman cain. i'm chris matthews. welcome to the show. with us today, cnbc's jim cramer, "the washington post's" kathleen parker, cnn's gloria borger and "the huffington post's" howard fineman. first up, barack obama's hopes in a race against mitt romney rest on next year's economy. on sunday's "new york times," the electoral college analyst says if there's no g.d.p. growth next year, it would give romney an 80% chance of beating obama but if there's 4% growth, the tables are concerned. the obama campaign will pummel romney to make him unacceptable. >> you're campaigning as the man who can fix the economy. look at your record, sir.

two u.s. plants were closed, 2,000 workers were laid off. chris: far from running from his ties to business, romney is boasting about his success. >> that business was one of the largest and most successful and in my party, we celebrate success, we don't attack success, we celebrate it. chris: jim cramer, you tend to agree. here's a piece of a cramer rant about the president and business. >> disdain is off the charts. he's hated like jimmy carter was hated and i think we got to tell our viewers that and when the mics are off, these guys are saying obama is destroying the country. i always say, the democrats and the republicans are destroying the country. chris: they don't like obama on wall street. the fed is projecting under 3%, hardly any growth next year. what will that do to their attitude towards barack. >> the growth has plateaued already and not going do

anything. ben bernanke this week was negative. he said whatever we were was going to happen probably won't happen. this will be difficult for the democrats because i think we'll get continued slow to no growth and hiring. it's not going to work, chris. it's not going to work. chris: inate nate silva says barack has to see real growth in the next 10 months or he's out pretty much no matter who he runs against. >> i think that's true because nate's already declared romney is the victor. right? chris: aren't you back with sarcasm. >> no, i've been saving up. romney is going to be a formidable candidate against obama and obama fields -- feels that already which is why he's declared class warfare and it's absolutely true and it may be his only option because if you look at the polls, the intensity polls that show the enthusiasm of the voters heading into 2012, republicans are off the map

compared to democrats so all obama can do to get his base animate side to declare war on the privileged. chris: the republicans can't wait to get rid of obama, right? >> that's right, they cannot wait. democrats are so disappointed, and at this point, they're a little reluctant to get behind him but that's why he's saying, now, he's taking a big chance. >> but it can't be frontal class warfare. chris: it is, though. >> it's got to to be the growthe want is the growth we can all share because barack obama himself is not the embodiment of the populist, you know. he's thoughtful, he's kind of -- he's just not. chris: he's a little better than that, maybe. what's happening with the jobs thing? he's on the road every day, you turn on the tube, obama's out some talking about bridges he wants to build and they won't let me. >> it isn't cutting through yet because it's not the barack

obama we knew. he was the thoughtful, judicious guy with big plans and universal global healthcare, with big stimulus packages, the big-think guy filling up the extra blue books in the exam, not the guy out there with the wrench. and i was just in my adopted home state of kentucky the other day where -- i used to work for the louisville journal. the democratic incumbent governor is going to win next tuesday going away by 20 points in a state that has 10% unemployment. so the pop limp is -- aimed not at business. he's done it by attacking the republicans as the powers that populism is opposing. chris: the polls show that the worst case against wall street is not the rich, which they are, is that they have too much influence in congress. let me go to this question. i'll get back to populism in a

minute. do you think the average person out there making average income who votes, do they resent romney's incredible wealth? he's made about a quarter billion in his wealth right now, or do they admire him for having done so? >> i think things have switched in this country. i think if you're successful, you're now viewed as some degree of a villain even if you created jobs. chris: do you feel that? >> i interviewed with romney. chris: when you walk around, do people give you trouble because they think you're rich? >> they like the show, they're giving me high-five's. i don't fear disconnect between the guys down there in real life. but i have to say, i think romney has to go with the second generation of romney which is the job creator. when i met romney, it was, we rationalized the work force which is another word for fire. chris: do you think people look up to this good looking guy, romney, who looks like

presidents all look like, he seems to have a perfect life, perfect family, do they resent that or do they like him? >> i think -- romney, fundamentally, is a technocrat. he is not mr. personality but i don't think the american people at this point care about personality. they want someone who can solve problems and fix things and i think, too, you know, the whole movement to demonize millionaires and billionaires will backfire, too. and it's unauthentic of obama to keep insisting on this, because, look, his largest contributors to his campaign to the tune of something like $43 million were wall street. >> that's why they don't like him, right. chris: what about what kathleen is arguing, it's not credible or authentic for obama to say he doesn't like successful people when he hangs out with them. >> he can't say that. what he has to play upon and talk to people about is something that everybody

understands in this country, which is that over the last decade, the rich have gotten richer and there is an increasing debt and everybody understands that. but he can't rale against the wealthy. chris: this is the most fascinating result i can remember ever. let's get to it. we put it to the matthews meter, 12 of our regulars. who is most likely to succeed in next year's election, the turnaround c.e.o., romney, or the populist, barack obama. 10 out of 12 say the c.e.o. wins and just two think that the populist, barack obama, gets it. gloria, you're with the 10. >> in theory, the president's record, because he is the incumbent, by default, becomes the central focus of this election and the president has to run on his record. and if growth isn't good and if

unemployment remains at 9%, that's his problem. so the turnaround c.e.o. has to emphasize creating jobs and i can do that. it will be the president's record. chris: you gave me a blue block answer. romney, on the other side -- >> do i get an a? >> i'm on the other side for the sake of argument. if the president pursues populism in the right way, he's got to be the practical no-nonsense job maker and when he attacks, he doesn't attack wealthy and successful people per se, he attacks the political system, he goes with both the tea party and with the occupy people saying there's something wrong with the way the country is set up and he runs at the republican party, he says mitt romney is a tool of mitch mcconnell and all those people. they've broken the system, they are the reason why income is badly distributed, not rich

people. >> bill clinton could do that. chris: will next year's election, will people deal with anger to get rid of somebody, or deal with happiness and enthusiasm for a candidate? >> i think they'll be happy and enthusiastic for what the president has done because i they want a big rich guy running the country. chris: kathleen? >> i don't know if they'll be happy or angry but i think they're going to vote for the person who conveys optimism and hope. >> i think it's going to be republicans. chris: going with their desire to get rid of somebody? >> will be voting against barack obama. chris: that's the history of america. >> nate silva is brilliant but he's making a simple point, it's all about the economy and if the economy is not any good, they're going to fire barack obama. chris: i believe we are the

manager on the baseball team, it's not personal. before we break, bad week for herman cain. >> herman cain is having to respond to claims he once sexually harassed women. do you hear that? apparently a german woman kept telling cain, 9-9-9. >> i'm not sure cain understands how serious this is. when he asked him about the allegations at the press conference, he said, harassed, is that one word or two. chris: there's a good chance for us to remember earlier greatest hits, the granddaddy of them all, the long-running gary hart saga in 1987. the biggest hit movie that year was "fatal attraction," all rich material for "saturday night live." >> he's not worth it. forget him.

>> gary hart. you can't get him out of your mind. >> paid for by the gary hart for president committee. chris: hart was sunk for the presidency but in the case of bill clinton, he survived the year-long displeasure from the lewinski case. unbelievably, bob livingston suddenly had to go when his affair was revealed days before he was to take the gavel.

snl loved their frustration over clinton. >> he lies about it under oath then we prosecute him and he's still in the white house and we lose our job. >> thanks for letting me use the coat room, hank. >> i'll see you later. >> hi, fellas, how are you? >> hank, how about a drink for these two from the president of the united states. chris: when we return, herman cain came out of nowhere thanks to the tv debates. irony of ironies, did tv hand it to the most boring guy?

chris: welcome back. republicans with their ears to the ground are hearing a new rumble out there and my msnbc colleague, joe scarborough, describes it. >> hearing something remarkable over the past week. i'm hearing conservatives, stalwart conservatives, starting to say, you know what, i would rather lose to barack obama -- i would rather give him four more years than elect mitt romney and have him spend money like george bush. chris: the frustration is that the field of un-romneys have dried up, driving tim pawlenty out, driving out michele bachmann and elevated herman cain. howard, it's cleared the field,

leaving it to romney if you look at it. how can they do that without a single vote by the voter? >> because television has been taking over politics ever since your hero, jack kennedy, starred in the debates in 1960 and this is kind of the logical conclusion where, in certain respects, the voting has taken place without the texting that you have on "dancing with the stars" but with the same basic idea. chris: you have a debate coming up wednesday night at 8:00 eastern. you're going for the bottom line, no more wobbling. >> it's all follow-up and one of the things that's happened, another network did a debate. you get one question and let them argue. no, you go with one question, you look at the answer and come right back at you and come back at you again. it's a three-tiered assault on the answers. >> be careful, they won't come. >> they got to come. chris: a real debate with follow-up. >> this really is reality tv and the one who survives is going to

be mitt romney because he stands up there and looks presidential. his numbers don't go up but they don't go down. chris: i'm fascinated by this. romney is one candidate who looks better when there's eight people around him. there's something the guy, his stature, his poise. >> part of that is because he's been humbled. >> can any debate make a conference at this point as to who gets nominated? >> yeah. chris: what can happen? >> you mean knock romney off? i think what we've seen is the debates have essentially set the because you've had such a fickle and undecided republican electorate. here's the thing, newt gingrich has done well at these debates. >> i don't think -- chris: can he come up up from te pack? >> his history makes it doubtful

but the water is washing around in the tub. there's seven or eight or nine debates yet before january 3 so who the heck knows. chris: i love "the water is still washing around the tub." thank you. >> everybody has a different reason for running for president. chris: when we return, scoops and predictions from the chris: when we return, scoops and predictions from the notebooks so, open your eyes and check out your new living room! [ gasps ] honey, the tv's over there! yep, we got you the new at&t u-verse wireless receiver so you can put your tv pretty much anywhere you want. and that stand... anywhere? like, we can put it over there? and that coffee... or we could put it on the patio for watching the game with the guys. or in the kitchen? but, these curtains are... i can't believe you moved the tv. it's like a whole new living room. it actually is a whole new living room. [ male announcer ] the new wireless receiver, only from at&t. now get u-verse with dvr at the lowest price ever. at&t. who made an unexpected arrival. [ woman ] he was 4 months early, weighing 1 pound, 12 ounces.

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chris: jim, tell me something i don't know. >> we're going to be the largest exporter of energy in the world yearsut four or five because we're not a fossil fuel country. we have so much oil and gas in this country, we don't know what do with it. chris: what are we selling? >> we'll be selling liquefied natural gas. everybody who used to use power that can't after fukushima. >> i think it will be interesting to watch and see what sarah palin and mike huckabee decide to do. palin has established she's not going to endorse perry because she threw out a glancing blow about his capitalism but huckabee had romney on his show which was a huge event but both have turned against perry. chris: didn't huckabee say romney has no soul? >> i think he thinks he's a cultist. >> we were talking about newt

gingrich before. i'm going to predict a newt gingrich boomlet. i think newt gingrich will be a beneficiary of herman cain's scandal. >> you don't really see the president of harvard lobbying in washington, pounding the pavement. she was here the other day with other university presidents who are extremely worried about teaching hospitals and that there's no super committee deal, healthcare research and especially the post graduate training of doctors in university hospitals is going to be absolutely decimated. university hospitals around the country are frightened about how to survive. chris: when we return, our big question this week. 75% of americans in their 20's think this country is not the greatest country. is that pessimism?

chris: a pugh research poll asked americans if this is still the world's greatest country. 75% of our kids, college aged

ones and those under 30, do not think so. they say this is one of several great countries which brings us to our big question this week. is that passimism or realism? >> china has money. that's what people think is a great country because they're not bankrupt. >> i think it's both pessimism and realism because these kids can't find jobs. i conducted a quick survey and asked my son who falls within this demographic and he said it's cable tv's fault. my generation has never turned on the tv and not heard that everything is gloom and doom and going to hell in a hand basket. chris: will it him to watch "hardball." >> i think it's pessimism. and i think it's because of china. the polls i look at show who's going to be economically dominant in the next decade, everybody says china.

>> it's always because kids are better educated and they travel more, they all study abroad. number two, the internet is global. they see the reality elsewhere around the world for better or worse and it's the economics as jim says. they're being realistic. disturb anybody. thanks to you all, jim cramer, cnbc debate wednesday night. kathleen parker, gloria borger and howard fineman. thank you, as usual. before we go, a personal note about my new book, "jack kennedy, elusive hero," my personal look into the career and life of a beloved leader. that's the show. thanks for watching.

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