we encourage you to weigh in on the debate in real-time. our on-line app at m it, p.msnbc.com. monitor the conversation there and we'll see some of your feedback during that debate over the course of this debate. candidates, good morning. >> good morning. >> i just want to s on behalf of all americans, that i thank you for being willing to debate each other every ten hours, ether you feel you need it or not. th is an iortant moment. elections are about choices. ey're about distinguishing one from the other. there is a political element to that and, of course, it has to do with policy as well. governor romney has won the iowa caucuses, although narrowly. hes ap in the polls here in new hampshire. he's also up in the polls todow in south carolina. speaker gingrich, why shouldn't governor romney be the nominee of this party? what about his record concerns you most orakes him

disqualified to be the nominee. >> welllook, i think what republicans veo ask who's most likely in the long run to survive against the kind of billion dollar campaign the obama team is going torun. i think that a bold, reagan conservative, with a very strong economic plan, is a lot more likely to succeed in that campaign than a relatively timid massachusetts moderate who even "the wall street journal" said had an economic plan so timid it resembled obama. i think you've got to look at, you know, massachusettsas fourth from the bottom in job creation under governor romney we created 11 million jobs while i was speaker and i worked with president reagannd the entire recovery of the 1980s. i think there's a huge difference between a rgan conservative and somebody who comes out of the massachetts culture with an essentially moderate record who i think will have a very hard tim in a debate with president obama. >> gingrich, bottom line, you

believe governor romney is unelectable. >> against obama's record i think, you know, the fact is, that psident obama will have a very hard re-election effort but tnk the bigger the corast, the bolder ideas, the clearer the choi, the harder it is for that billion dollar campaign to smear his way back into offi. >> speaker, this isour flyer you're circulating here in new hampshire. it says clearly, romney is not eltable. >> i think you will have a very hard time getting re-elected -- getting elected. >> governor? >> david, i'm ver proud of the record that i have and i think the one thing you can't fool the people about new hampshi about is the record of a governor next door. and people have watched me over my term as governor and saw i was a solid conservative and that i brought important change to massachusetts. they recognize that i cut taxes 19 times, balanced the budget every one of the four years i wa governor, put in place a $2 billion rainy day fund by the time ids i'd gone. we seen job losses in the months leading up to my becoming the governor and began toinally create jobs. by the way, we created more jobs in massachusetts than barack

obama's createdn the entire country. we also got our state police to enforce illegal immigration laws. t in place english immersion in ourschools. i'mery proud of the conservative record have and i think that'shy some of the leading conservatives in today's world who are fighting the consertive battles of today that don't have any ax to grind have gotten behind my campaign. govern nikki haley of south carolina, governor chris christ of new jersey, right here, the great senator o new hampshire, kelly ayot, these are conservatives who looked at my record, looked at my plan to get this economy going. i happen to believe if we want to replace a lifetime politian like barack obama who had no experience leading anything, you to choose someone who's not ban life-long politician, not spent his entire career in washington and has proven time and again he can lead in the private sector twice, in the olympics and as a governor. we've got to nominate a lear if we're going to replace someone who i not a leader. >> senator santorum, had you not lost re-election in 26 you

would have been in washington even longer than you were. it would have been 21 years. you've got a long washingn record. how do you address this question? why shouldn't governor romney be the nominee? what is disqualifying in your opinion? >> why didn't you r for re-election. if you didn't want to stand in frt of the people of massachusetts and runn your record, why did you bailout? the bottom line is, i go and fight the fight. if it was that important to the people of massachusetts you were going to go and fight for them, at least you can stand up and make the battle you did a good job. i did that. i ran for re-election a couple times and i won a couple times and the 71% democratic district when i ran for re-election. i was in a 71% democratic district, 91% conservative voting record. it was hard thing to do. my distrt was more democrat than the state of msachusetts rain in the steel valley of pittsburgh. i fought for the conservative principles. didn't to what governor romney did in 1994. i was running the same year he

ran in 1994. i ran in a tough state of pennsylvania against an incumbent. governor romney lost by almost 20 points. why? because at the end of that campgn, he wouldn't stand up for conservative principles, ran for ronald reagan and he said he was going to be the left with ten kennedy, on gay rights and abortion issues. we want someone when times get tough and it will in this election, fight for the conservative principles not bail out and not run and not run to the leftf ted kennedy. >> you did say when you endorsed him four years ago, he would stand up for conservative principles, senator. >> vis-a-vis john mccain. >> your response? >> a lot of things inaccurate. i'm not going through them one by one. i can tell you this, i think it's unusual and, perhaps, understandable that pple who end their life in politics imagine if you get in politics that that's all you want to do. that if you've been elected to something, you want to get re-elect and re-elected. i went to massachusetts to make a difference. i didn't go there to begin a

political career running time and time again. i made a difference, i put in place the things i wanted to do, i listed out the accomplishments we wanted to pursue in our administration. there were 100 things we wanted to do. those things i pursued aggressively, some we won, some we didn't. run again? that would be about me. i was trying to help g the state as best shape as i could. left the world of politics, went back into business. i have the opportunity, i believe, to use the experience i have. you have a surprised look on your face wait. it's still my time. >> are you going to tell people you're not going to run for re-election for president if you win? >> it's still my ti. i'm just asking. >> okay. >> go ahead. governor romney,ak 30 seconds there. >> yeah. what i'm going to tell you is, this for me, politics, is not a career. for me, my career was being in business and starting a business and making it successful. my life's passion has been my family, my faith and my country. i believe b virtue of the experiences i've had, that i'm

in a gd posion to make a contribution to washington. i long for a day when instead of having people who go to washington for 20 and 30 years, who get elected and then when they lose office they stay there, and make money as lobbyists or connecting to busisses i think it stinks. we ought to have people go to washington and serve washington and serve as their- the people of their nation and go home. i would like to see term limits in washington. >> let me -- >> as the president of the united states, as the president of the united states if i'm elected of course i will fight for a second term. there's a lot of work to be done. >> take 30 seconds. >> i realize the red light doesn't mean anything to you because you're the fntrunner. but can we drop a littleit of a pias bologna. the fact is you ran in '94 and lost. that's why you weren't serving the senate with rick santorum. th fact is you had a very bad re-election rating, you dropped out of office, you had been out of state for something like 20 days preparing to run for

president, you didn't have this interlude of citizenship while you thought about what to do, you were running for preside while you were governor. you were going all or the country. you were out oftate consistently. you then promptly re-tered politics, happened to lose to mccain as you had lost to kennedy. you're back nning. you've been running consistently for years and years and years, so this idea that suddenly citizenship showed up in your mind, just level with the american people. you've been running for at least since the 1990s. [ applause ] >> governor, please. mr. speaker, citizenship has always been on my mind. and i happen to see my dad run for governor when he was 54 years old. he had good advice to me. he said, mitt never get involved in politics if you have to win an ection to pay a mortgage. if you find yourself in a position where you conserve you ought to have a responsibility to do so if you think you can make a difference. he said don't get in politics if your kids are still young because it may turn their hes. iever thought i would get

involved in politics. when i saw ted kennedy running virtually unopposed in 1994, a man i thought by virtues of the policies of the liberal welfare statement had created a permanent unrclass in america i said someone has to run against it. i happened to beise enough to reize i didn't have ghost of a chance of beating him. this guy, repubcan from massachusetts, was not going to beat ted kennedy. i told my partners in my firm i'll be back in six months. don't take my chair. i gave it a real battle and went after it. i was happy he had to take a mortgage out on his house to defeat me. i'm very proud of the fact that i have stood up as a citizen to battle where i felt it was best for the nation and we're talking abt running for president. i am in this race because i care about the country, i believe my background and experience will lp me be an effective president. >> let me bring dr. paul into this. there is a question about who is a true conservative in the race. governor romney said only nine years ago with new england cable news said the following, i think

people recognize i'm not a partisan republican, i'm someone who's moderate and my views per progrereive. do you believe governor romney when he says he is a man of constantsy and will stand up for consertive princles. >> i think this whole discussion has been superficial and the question you ask is superficial in talking about character, which is very important, but i think we should deal with the issues as well. i don't see how we can do well against obama if we have any candidate that, you know, endorsed, you know, single payer systems and t.a.r.p. bailouts and don't change the federal reserve's $15 trillion of injection bailing out their friends. i don't see how we can have anybody really compete with obama who doesn't challenge this hu empire we have overseas and the overseas spending. i m this is how nations come down is they extend themselves too far overseas. that's how the soviets came down. we really have to talk about real cuts and we haven't gotten around to this yet. so if we want to cnge thin, this is what we have to talk

about. character is important and motivation is important and our history is important, but i really consider that in the debate format, to be less significant than what we rely belie in. >> you read my mind, dr. paul. we'r going t get to -- [ applause ] >> some of the tough choices not just o politics but policy. first governor perry, ask you flat out, your stake in your campaign going down to south carolina. is governor romney unelectble? >> i think you have to ask the questionho is it that can beat obama, who is it that can invigorate the tea party, who is it that can take the message of smaller outsider government that's truly going to change that place. i look from here down to rk santorum, i see insiders, individuals who have been the big spending republicans in washington, d.c., and let's be honest with ourselves, i mean, the fact of theatter is, that obama has thrown gasoline on the fire but the nfire was burning

well before obama got there. it was policies and spending, both from wall street and from the insiders in washington, d.c., that got usn this problem. and we need a candidate that can not only draw that stark contrast between themselves and barack obama, but also, stand up and lead the tea party movement back 2010 was about the tea party standing up and understandin that republicans, big spending republicans, had caused the -- a much a of this oblem as anying and it was their power that brought together, that brought washington, d.c., and the house to republican control and that's the kind of individual that we got to have to lead. >> before i get to governor huntsman i would be remiss if i did not allow you to respo to the quote i fraeds yonine years ago. what would you say to conservatives so they will trust you stand up for conservative principles? >> they have my recd as governor. that the great thing to people in new hampshire they seen what i did as governor of

massachusetts and had the occasion after my last failed attempt to run fopresident, to sit down and write a book i described my view for the country and people can describe it in differing ways, but my view is, the principles that i've learned in business and the principles as governor, fnkly have made me more conservative as time has gone on. i've seen a lot of government trying to solve problems and it didn't work and m view is, the right coue for america is to have someone who understand househe economy works, who ll passionaty get america back on track. >> we're goingo come back to you. the question of obstacles to the nomination. let me get to policy,overnor huntsman. this is by all aounts an age of austerity for this country. a jobs crisis a spending crisis in washington. i wonder, what specifically you woul do t say to americans, these are cuts'm going to make in feral spending that will cause pain, that will require saifice? >> let me s first of all, with respect to governor romney, you know, there are a lot of people who were tuning in this morning

and i sure there terribly confused after watching all of this political spin up here, i was criticized last night by governor romney for putting my country first. i just want to remind the people here in new hampshire and throughout the united states, that -- [ applause ] >> he criticized me while he was out raising mey for serving my country in china. yes under a democrat, like my two sons are doing in the united states navy. they're not asking who -- what political affiliation the president is. i want to be very clear with the people here in new hpshire and this cotry. i will always put my country first. and i think that's important. >>. [ applause ] >> why don't you get a response governor romney and come back on the austerity question. >> i think we serve our country first by standing for people who believe in conservativ principles and doing everything in our power to promote an agenda that does not include president obama's agenda. the decision to go and work for president oba is one wch you

took. i don't disrespectour decision to do that. i think it's most likely tt the person who should represent our party running against president obama is not someone who called him remarkable leader and went to be his ambassador in china. >> this nation is divided, david, because of attitudes like that. [ applause ] >> the american people are tired of the partisan division they have had enough, there is no trust left among the american people a the institutions of por and among the amecan people in our elected officials. >> and i say, we've had enough and we have to change our directio in terms of coming together as americans first and foremost. >> dr. paul said let's not be superficial. let's talk substance. governor huntsman name three areas where amerins will feel real pain to balance the budget? >> well, i would have to say that i agree with the ryan plan. i think i'm the only one standing up here who has embraced the ryan map. it's a very aggressive approach

to takg about $6.2 trillion out of the budget over ten years and it looks at everything and what i le about it is it says there will be no sacred cows. medicare won't be a sacred cow, department of defense won't be a sacred cow. as president of the united states, i'm going to stand up and i'm going to say, we are where we are, 24% spending as a percentage of gdp we have to move to 19%. >> thr programs that will make americans feel pain, si >> on entitlements, across the bod, i will tell the upper income category in this country that there will be means testing, a lot of people in this nation - >> social security and medicare? >> absolutely. absolutely. and also, i'm not going to tie department of defense spending to some percentage of gdp. i'm going to tie it to a strategy that protects the american people and if we think wean't find efficiencies and cuts in the department of defense budget, then we are crazy. >> senator santorum, same question, three programs that would make -- would have to be cut to make americans feel pain,

sacrific if we're going to balance the budget. >> i would agree the means test pg. i talked about that yesterday, walked through and talked about how we have to make sure we're not going to burden future generatisith a social security program under funded, and we have to take those who have been successful, seniors who have tremendousmount of wealth and reducebenefits. makes no sense for folks struggling right now to pay their payroll tax, the biggest tax on labor, makes us uncompetitive andomeone onhe left would have to raise those taxes to make labor more uncompetitive for the working people to g a job to subsidize high income seniors doesn't make sense. we have to send it back to the states like i did on welfare reform, same with medicaid. includin housing programs, block grant them, sd them back to the states require work and put a time limit. you do those three things we willave help take these programs now dependency programs,hich people are --

continually dependent upon, and take them into transitiona programs to help people move out of poverty. >> speaker gingrich, on the issue of medicare, when you were on "meet the press" earlier in the year, you talked about what paul ryan was talking about as a step too far, which is moving seniors on to a premium support or a voucher program depending on how you phrase it. as you kn, senator santorum thinks that current seniors should beoved off of that program into premium support other a voucher program. do you agree with doing it tt quickly and makg current seniors bear the brunt of that? >> wellhe ft is, the ryan/widen bill introduced recently actually incorporates allowing pple to choos and allows them to stay in traditional medicare with the premium support model or go to new methods and i think it's a substantial improvement. because it allows for a transition in medicare in aay that makes sense. but david, i find it fascinating, that very, very highly paid washington commen it taters and washington analysts love the idea of pain.

who's going to be in pain. the duty of the preside is to find a way to manage the federal government so the primary pain is changing the bureaucracy on theft one, we could save $100 billion in medicaid and medicare if the federal government were competent. that's a trillion dollars over ten years and the only people i pain would be crooks. so, i think a sound approach is to actually improve the government, n punish the american people because of the failure of the political class to have any sense of cleverness. >> governor perry from facebook, a lot of questions as we mentioned have been submitted and this from martin, because we do have a spendinrisis but a lot of people hurting he writes with more americans on government assistance than ever befo is it un-american for americans to feel relieved when the government helps th? >> well, let me answer the qutionhat yousked eaier, what are the three areas that you would make some reductions people would feel someain and i will it tell you it would be those bureaucrats at the departmentf commerc and energy and education that we're

going to do awawith. [ applause ] >> and that's your final answer? >> you know, thie fact of the matter is americans want toave a job. that's the issue here. the idea that there are people clamoring for government to come and give them assistance is just wrong headed. and that's what we need to be focusi on as a people, is how do we create the environment in this country where the entrepreneurs know they can risk their capital v a chance to have a rurn on the investment and create the jobs out there so people can have the dignity to take care of their families. that's what americans are looking for. i've done that the last 11 yrs in thetate of texas and have the ecutive governing experience that no one else up here on this stage had. >> we're going to take a quick break, come back, live from new mpshire with many more questions for the candidates and feedback from you. questions for the candidates and feedbac[ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool

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and we are back on this special edition of "meet the press" from herein new hampshire. we want to get right back to the questions here with our candidates, andefore the break, we were talng about medicare. aul an, senator santorum, had a pla where he'd like to move seniors off, give them a vouch or premium suort, and then they would take care of their health care from there. there's a lot of date about tht. and i mened, you said seniors should be affected right now, 55-plus, have them affected right now, which haseen somewhat controversial. you want to respond to that. >> i hear this all the time when i've been campaigning around the state. you know, we should have the same kind ohealthare that members of congress have. well, thas pretty much what the plan is. the members of congress hav a

premium support model. so does every other federal employee. it works vy well. as you know, the federal government has a liability, they put money out there, andhen if you want, you have about this thick if you're an employee in washington, d.c., a whole bunch of different plans to choose from and you have all sorts of options available to you. youwant more expensive plans you play more of a coinsurance. if you want a less expensive plan, you don't. but here's the fundamental difference between barack obma and everybody up here. it's whether you believe people can be freeto make choices o whether you have to make decisions for them. and i believe seniors just like every other american should be free to make the choices in their health care plan that's best for them. governor romney, there's a lot of discussion, a lot of discussion this morning on facebook about taxes. an as we talk about taxes, and spending, of course we talk abt economic security and economic gwth. there's been a deba in washington a beyond, as you well know, betweenwarre buffett and grover norquist. grover norquist the anti-tax crusader says no tax inses under any circumstances.

b warren buffett says hey, the wealthier in this country can pay more and they should pay more. indeed, bancing the budget is a wayfor more economic growth down the line. who knows more about the amrican economy? grover norquist or warren buffett? >> well, who knows more about tax policy? i'm not sure wre going to choose from the two of them. but i can tell you this the right course for america i not to raise taxes on americans. i understand that president obama and people of his political persuasion would like to take more money from the american people. and they want to do that so they can continue to grow government. but the answer for americas not to grow government, it is to shrink government. we've been going over the last 20, 30, 40 years, governmen keeps growing at a faster rate relative to inflation. we've got to stop the extraordina spending in this country. that's why i put out a plan that reduces vernment spending, i cut -- iut programs, a whole series of programs, by the way the number one cut is obama care. that saves $95 billn a year. just asick indicated, return to states a whole series of

programs, foodstamps, housing vouchers, medicaid and set how muchoes to the and finally with regard to entitlement, i do not want change medicare and social security for current retirees. but forounger people coming up, they have to recognize that in the future, higher income peopleill receive less payments than the premium support program. >> governor huntsman, who knows more about the amecan economy? you, in answer to that question, you seemed to be a little bit uncomfortable with a moment earlier in this debate cycle when everybody said they would reect even a 10 to 1 ratio of cuts to new taxes. >> it was a silly format. i mean, it was an important question, and they asked us to raiseur hands. i mean for heaven's sake, we didn't get a chance to talk about it. i put a tax reform proposal on the table, endorsed by "the wall street journal," that goes farther than anybody else's on this stage. it calls for what absutely needs to be done and everybody knows about it. we are so chuck full of loop holes and deductions, it weighs down our tax code to the tune of

$1,100,000 dollars. you can't continue to compete that way. we've got to phase out loop holes a say so long to corporate welfare and to subsidies because this country can no longer aboard it a 've got to prepare for competition in the 21st century. >> speaker gingrich if you become president gingrich and the leader of the democrats, harry reid, says he i going to prom to make you a one-term president, how would youropose to wor with someone like tt in order to achieve rests in washington? >> i think every president who works with the leader ofvery opposition knows they're working with someone who was toake them a one-term president. i mean, that' the american process. i worked with ronald reagan in the early1980s. tip o'neill was speaker, he wanted to make reagan a one-trm president. we had to get one-third of 9 democrats to vote for the reagan tax cuts, and we did. as speaker, i was negotiating with bill clinton. he knew i wanted him to be a one-term president. and we got a lotf things done, including welfare reform, because you have to reach out.

i agree with what governor huntsman said earlier. you have to at some point say the country comes first,ow are we going to get things done, we'll fight later, let's sit down in a room, let's talk it through, i'll tell you what i need and i'll tell you what i can'tdo. you tell me what you need, and you tell me what yo c't do. and it sometimes takes 20 or 30 days. but if people of good will, even if they're partisan, come together, talk it out, y know, we got welfare reform. first tax cut in 16 years, 4.2% unemployment, and four straight years of a blanced budget with a republican speaker and a democratic president. so it can be done with real leership. >> anyby else have a point of view about how you actlly work with the other side when they've committed to wking against you? governor? >> yeah, i was governor of a state that had a slightly democratic leaning house and senate. my legislate was 85% democrat. and i went around at he very beginning of having ben elected and met with the speaker of the house and the senate president.

the senate psident said something i won't rget, he said mitt th cpaign is over, the people expect us to now governor for them. and we did. we met every week. we rotated in offices. we got to know each other personally. developed a relationship of respect and rapport. and we had a severe budget crisis. i went to them and said will you give munilateral power to cut spending, witht even a vote in the legislature? they d enough confidence in me they decided to do that. i was able to cut the spending on an emergency basis, not just slow down i rate of growth. wean work together, republicans and democrats are able to go across the aisle because we have common -- we really do have areas of common interests. en though they're dramatically different perspectives on how the world works and what's right, w can find coon ground. and i have proven in a state that is very democrat that i'm able to work with people, 19 tax cuts. protected charter schools. drove our schools to be number one in the nation. kept them there, rather.

that record could work with republicans and democrats who are willing to work to the. >> dr. paul, there's this question of agument versus accomplishment. the question again com from facebook. heath writes, i want -- paul treat, rather, i want to know what ronpaul's plan of action will to achieve getting the house and senate to help them do all he's promised. and here's the rord, dr. paul. you have actually sponsored 620 measures. ly 4 made it a vote on the ouse floor, and has been signed into la >> you know, that demonstrates how much out of touch the u.s. government and the u.s. congss is with the american people. because i'm suprting things that help the american people. that's the disgust that people have, because they keep growing government, whether it's republicans in charge or the democrats in charge. but, as far a working with other groups i think my record is about as good as anybody's, because i work on the principle that freedom and the constitution bring people together.

for different reason people use freedom in different ways, like it does, init invites differences in our religious beliefs. onomically. we tell people they're alled tspend their money as they choose. on civil liberties, that's the difference they make. republicans, conservatives aren't all that well known for protectingrivacy and personal liberties. when it com to this spending overseas i can work a coalition. matter of fact, my trillion doar proposal to cut spending doesn'tmmediately deal with soal security. it's to try to work our way out osocial security. i'm cutting a trillion dollars byttacking overseas spending, and going back to '06 budgets, and i do not believe that you have to havepain. people who have goten special privileges and bailouts from the government, they may get the pain, but the american people, they get their freedom back and get no income tax, they don't suer anything. >> here's the reity, two previous presidents, president bush talked about being the uniter and not a divider. president obama talked about

transforming washington. and it hasn't worked. washington is polarized. the country is polarized. and the american people are prey sick of the ft that nothing gets done in shingto specifically, how do you change that? >> well, let me first address congressman paul, because the serious issue with congressman paul here you're right, he's never really passed anything of y importance. and one of the reasons people like congressman paul is his economic plan. he's never been able to accomplish any of that. he has no track record of being le to work to the. he's been out there on the margins, and has really been unsuccessful in working to the with anybody. to do anything. the problem is that wh congressman pl can do, as commander chief, is he can fro day one do what he says he wants to do. which is pull all our troops back out of overseas, put them here in america, leave us in a -- in a situation where the world has now createduge amounts all over the place and have folks like china and iran, and others, look city straits of hormuz as i said last night, we

wouldn't even have the fifth fleet there. the problem with congressman paul is all the things republicans like about hi they can't accplish and all the things they worry about he'll do day one. and that's the problem. so what we need to do is have someone who has a plan, and has experience to do all the thin republicans and conservatives would like to do -- >> lete get dr. paul to respond. >> it's not exactly a simple task to repeal apoximate 100 yea ofs sliding away from our republic, and still running a foreign policy of woodrow wilson, try and make the world safe for democracy. look, we have elections overseas and we don't even accept the elections. no, chang in foreign policy is significant. but that's where nation wll come downf they ke doing this. we can't stay in 130 counies, get involved in nation building, we cannot have 00 bases overseas. we have to change policy. what about change in monetary policy? yes, we do. but we've had that for 100 years. and right now we're winning that

battle. the american people now agree about 75% of the american people say we ought to audit the deral reserve find out what they're doin and who are their friends that they're bailing out constantly. senator santorum, come back to this point. it's easy to say, boy, i'm going to change the culture in washington. hasn't worked for the past two presidents. >> well, it worked my case. ok at welfare reform. a federal entitlement that i remember standing next to daniel patrick moynihan, ted kennedy, who were out there just talking out how this was going to be the end of civilizion as we knit. there would be bread lines, the horrific consequences of removing federal income support from basically mothers with children. and we stood up and said nohat creating dependency and creating that dependency upon federal dollars ismore harmful than -- d not believing in pple and their abilit to work, is more harmful. a so we stood up and fought, and went out to the american

public, bill clinton vetoed this bill twice. we had hard opposition, b i was able to work togethe and paint his vision. we made compromis but not on our core principles. the core principles this was going to end the federal program, we were going to require work, we were going to put time limits on welfare. i stuck to those principles and we were able to compromise on some things like transportation funding, day care funding, all in order to get a consensus that poverty is not a disabity. and that programs that we need to put in place should help transition people, not make them dependent, and we were able to get 70 votes in the united statesenate, including 17 decrats. >> governor huntsman, this question of, is the leader of democrats promised to make you a one-term president, how would you go about dealing with them in a more effective way thanou think the man you serve, president obama, did? >> i think it comes down to one word, david, and i think the one word is trust. when the american people look at the political process play out,

they hear all the spinning, and all thedoctrineaire language and they still walk away with the beliefthat they're not being represted in congress. that there's no trust in the executive branch and the simpson-bowles bipartisan proposal lands right on the desk of barack obama and it lands in the garbage can. the first press conference i had when i ran for governor in 2004 was on ethics in government erce. i talked about term limits. i talked about campaign finance refor i talked about the role of loyists, and knew i wouldn't make a lot of friends. i have one member of the legislature who supported me in that run. we won because we had the will f the people. and i believe the next president, if that is to be m i want to roam around this country, and i want to generate the level of excitement and ehusiasm that i know exists among the americ people to bring term limits to congress. tolose the revolving doors on members going right on out and becoming lobbyists. we've got to start with a

structural problem. the is no trust. >> alright, governor pey, i want to continue on the theme of leadership. this is -- as you wellknow, new hampshire is an independent place. and i wnder wre, besides criticizing the previous administration for running up the debt, inder where you would buck your paty? what would you say or do to ma publicans uncomfortable? >> hope i'm making republicans uncomfortable ght now by talking about the spending that they've done back in the 2000s when we had control of both parties. >> but aside from that. >> dr. paul says that the biggest problem facing this count is our work overseas. i disagree with that the biggest problem facing this count today is a congress that is out of control with their spending. and we've got to have someone, an outsider, that will walk in, not part of the insider group that you see here, people who have voted for raising t bt limit, people who have been part

of the problem that is facing america. i will tell you two things that can occur. that a president can lead the charge on. and it will put term limits ito place. one of those is a part-me congress to tell those membe of congress, we're going to cut your pay, 're going to cut the amount of time that you spend in washington, d.c., send you b to your district so you can have a job like everybodyelse in your district has, and live under the laws of which you pass, and then a balanced-budget amendment to the united states constitution. you do those two things -- >> but my question -- >> and that will make them uncomfortable. >> wfr been telling conservatives a balanced-budget amendment is somemeing i'm going to d and i'm going to cut spending. that's ing to make them uncomfortable? >> you're darn right. bus there's a bunch of people standing up here who say they're conservatives but their records don't follow up on that. >> i've got to take another break here. 'll come back on thispoint. we'll retur with much more, a of course please share your thoughts with us online via mane at mtp.msnbc.com.

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and we are back in new hamhire. i'm hayo be joined now by our localpartrs for the debate from the new hampshire union leader senior politic reporter is with us. good to he you here, john, and fr whdh-tv in boston, channel

7 in bosto polical editor andy pillar. welcome to you, as well. >> governor huntsman, it's winter in new hampshe. a little mild, but it's still winter. home heating oil is nearly $4 a gallon. yet president obama and congress have cut by 25% the program that helps low-income people heat their hom. about million households th were helped last yearon't be helped this year. is this an example of pain that people should suffer, should this funding be restored? should it be cut more? should this programbe eliminated perhaps? this is practical problem in this area of the country. >> no. we have people in need. we have people suffering. and this is challenge that we need to address. but i believe we're not goin to be able to effectively confront it head-on until such time as this nation begins to move more toward greater ergy diversity and energyindependence. one of the first things i would do as president is i would take

a look at that one product distribution bias that always favors one product. and that's oil. and i'd say, if we're going to do wth this nation what needs to be done in terms using a multiplicity of products that we have in such diversity and abdance we'r going to have to break up that one product distribution monopoly. i want to do that oil distribution monopoly what we did to broadcast communicion in the early 1970s. we blew it apart. we said we need more. we need derse sources to draw from. we need to service the consumers. i believe if we're going to do what needs to be done from an energy independent standpoint, all products, getting the products to the customer, we've got to disrupt that one product monopoly that does not serve this country well, nor its consumers. >> congressman pau how do you feel about -- how do you feel about subsidies in general for specific energy and also more specifically rightnow, more

immediaty, low-income program, heating assistance program? is this something that fits in under your vie of what government does do or should not do? >> well, subsidies, per se, it's bad economic policy, it's bad moral policy, because it's using government force to transfer money from one grp to another. and economically it does lot of harm. but when it comes to energy, we should, you know, deregulate like others talk about. but we need to talk, you know, suly and demand, everybody knows about supply and demand. they talkbout oil. if we had more alternative sources we always hope the price also go down. but everybody forgets that there's another 50% of a transaction is the monetary unit. a you don't deal -- ry few people talk about the supply and demand of money. and when youreate alot of money, prices go up. so goes up in the areas where government most gets involved. you know, in education, in medical care, housing. and in energy. so prices go up much faser than

any other place, so if you subsidize somebody and you print money do it, you compound the problem. it's good politics. yeah, i'm going to subsidize you antake care of you, but it's bad economic policy, and it's not a good way to find any answers. >> governor romney, this is such an important topic, because beyond the regional implication, there's also a larger question abuthe social safety net. you tk all the time about opportunity for americans. what about americans left behind? in this age of austerity, what do americans have to learn to live with less of? >> well, what we d't need is to have a a federal government aying we're going to solve all the problems of poverty across the entire country. because what it means to be poor in massachusetts is different than montana, mississippi, other places of the country. and that's why these programs, all of these federal programs that are bundled to hel people and make sure we have a safety net need to be brought togeer and sent back to the states. and let states that are clost to the needs of their own people crft the programs that are best able to deal wi the needs of

those folks. so whether it's food stamps and housing vouchers, they're certainly on the list. but certainly medicaid. home heating oil support. what unfortunately happens is with all the multiplicity of federal programs, you have massive overhead, with government bureaucrats in washington, administering all these programs, ry little of the money that's actually needed by those that really need help, those that can't care for themselves actually reaches em. these -- the government -- folks in washington keep building program after program, it's time to say, nuch of that, let's get the money back to the states the way the constitution intended and let states care for their own people in the way they deal best. >> andy? >> governor romney i'd like to remind you of something you said in bay windows, which is a gay newspaper in massachusetts in 1994, when you were runng aga senator kennedy. these are your rds, i think the gay commity needs more support from the republican party, and i would be a voice in the republican party to foster

anti-discrimination efforts. how have you stood up for gay rights? and when have yoused your voiceo influence republicans on this issue? >> andy, as you know, i don't discriminate. and the appoinents that iade when i was governor of massachusetts, a member of my cabinet was gay. i appointed people to t bench regdless of their sexual orientaon. made it very clear weshould not discriminate in hiring policies, in legal policies. at the same time in 1994 i said to the gay community, i do not favor same-sex marriage. i oppose same-sex marriage and that has been my view. but, if people are looking f someone who will discriminate against gays, or will in any way try and suggest that people that have differe sexual orientation don't have full rightin this country, they won't fd that in me. when is the last time you stood up and spoke out for increasing gay rights? >> right now.

>> senator santorum, would you be a voice for increasing gay rights for the party? >> surprised he's coming tome. what? what was your question? >> would you be a voice for speaking outor gayightsn your party? and if not, why not? >> i would be a voice i speaking out for making sure that every person in america, gay straight, treated with respect and dignity. and has the equality of opportunity. thatoes not mean that i would agree with certain things that the gay community would like to do to change laws with respect to marria, with respect to adoption, and things like that. so youcan be respectful. this is the beautif thing about this country. james madison called the first amendment, he calledt the perfect remedy. and that is people of all differe backgrounds, diversity, opinions, faiths, can come into the public square and can be heard. and can be heard a way that's respectful of everybody else,

but just because you dot agree with soone, desire to change the law, doesn't mean you don't like them or you ha them or you want to discriminate against them. but you're trying to omote things that you think are best for sociey. and i do so, and i think if you watch the town halleeting that i've been doing all over w hampshire, i do so in a respectful tone, i listen to the other side, i let them ma their arguments and we do so in a very respectful way. you know what? weay not agree. that's why we believe it on to the public to be able to elect members of congress and the senatand the president who support their ideas. >> what if you had a son who came to you and said he was gay? >> i would love him as much as i did the second before he said it. and i would try to do everything i can to be as good a father to him as possible. >> governor perry we're going to move on. right-to-work, which is mandatory union membership as you know continues to be a major

issue in the state of new hampshire. you've spoken about having states pass state laws. what about on the federal level? do you see this as a federal issue? and one that you would promote as president? or -- >> it is a federal issue and it's a federal issue because of the law that w passed that forces th states to mke the decision about whether or not they're going to be right-to-work. so, jimemint's legislation, i would support that, of repealing that legislation that forces states to make that decision to be a right-to-work, rath than all of this country being right-to-work. listen, i'm not anti-union. i'm pro-job. and the way you promote this country's rehabilitation from the obama administration's attack on job creatio is by taxes, and regulation, particularly the regulatory side, and pulling those regulations that have gone forward over the course of the last, since '08, and test them all r, do they create jobs or do tey kill jobs? if they kill jobs, you throw them out. that will make more difference

in this country from the standpoint, i'm a rit-to-work guy. i come from a right-toork state and i will tell you if new hampshire wants to become the magnet for job creation in the northeast, you pass th right-to-work legislation in thistate. >> i'd like to -- i'd like to ask both governor romney quickly, and senator santorum quickly, do -- wha positive contributions do labor unions provide in this compren at is point in the 21st century? >> well, the carpenter's union for instance trains their workers to be more effective on the job. and when they compete against non-union workers they do that on a fair basis. if that happens that's a positive contribution. let me say this withegards to ions, agree with governor perry right-to-work legislation makes a lot of sense for new hampshire and for the nation. but ao let's not forget the government union and the impact they're having. if we're going to finally ll back the extraordinary political power, government unions in this country, we're going to have to say that people who workor the government, government workers, should have their compensation

tied tohat which exists in the private sector. people who are government servants, public servants, should not be paid more than the taxays are who are carrying -- >> governor, very quickly, senator we'd like to have a hard break. a quick comment on this? >> i will. i signed a pledge that i would support a national right-to-work. when i was, i mentioned this lasnight, when i was a senator for pennsylvan i didn't vote for it because pennsylvania is not a right-to-work state and i didn want to vote for a law that would change the law in pennsylvania, number one. nuer two,hat can unions do as mitt mentioned, they can do training. i worked with a lot of labor unions in philadelphia,nd places to do a lot of community involvement work and they try to participate as good members of community like a business. brad, where we going? just a second. just, just one second. ♪ what are you looking at? don't look up there. why are you looking up? ♪ get outta the car. get outta the car. ♪ are you ok?

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