>> this is "the chris matthews show." >> ask not what your country can do for you. >> tear down this wall. >> i can hear you. >> the time for change has come. >> not so fast. fresh from a cliff victory with narrow republican support, president obama pleas for bipartisanship on rest of his second-term agenda sbut anyone on capitol hill listening? ready for a run? hillary clinton's home and ready to return to work. is she as ready to mount a run for president? with the travel and stress that would entail? and finally, for the -- 40 years since roe v. wade. the supreme court found a constitutional right to abortion but with states with republican governors there are new barriers to reduce abortion

. i'm andrea mitchell. chris is away this week and welcome to the show. with us today "the washington post's" bob woodward. gloria borger. joy reed from msnbc and "time" michael duffley. while most were gratified congress had acted to avert a financial ca taste raef most were discouraged by all the drama. many have been calculating the tax hit they will take under the new law. the president is calculate, the degree of difficulty he faces ahead. >> we is k settle this debate. or at the very least not allow it to be so all consuming all the time. >> let's talk about this. the president wants a legacy of environment, gun laws, energy, is he going to get this or trapped in this debate over budgets and taxes and spending cuts?

>> the budget, tax and spending, not so much on the tax but when history looks at what happened in the deal on the fiscal cliff, a lot of positives there. the 99% of the people get permanent tax cuts. that is a big deal if you're president of the united states. or even in congress. 1% 0 going to pay more. i would say certainly that's the right policy. so maybe it's not so bad. the problem is that the process was like this permanent divorce court. and you just could not unravel in any meaningful way what's going on, what's going to happen and so you have the brigade of biden and mitch commonly coming in -- mitch mcconnell coming in at the last minute. >> zpwhr and is it in everyone's interests to get

something done, the republicans need a legacy to reshape their image or just committed to try to block the president, gloria, at all costs? >> i think they're going to be blocking. and look, the tax issue was the president's turf. cuterring the size of government, making it smaller, is the republican turf. this is where they believe they can gain ground. this is where -- this is their terra firma. president says you are going to do that, i'm going to blame you for shutting down the government. for not paying america's bills. etc., etc. they believe they have the better side of the government which is you people hate government. you hate washington. we want to make it smaller. we're going to win this fight. andrea: but mike duffy, is that an argument, a winning argument politically, take ownership of cutting people's medicare? >> if i had to choose which cards i would rather be holding, the republicans who wants to make it about debt and deficit rurks and the president as he puts it in his words on economic recovery, i would

probably rather have the president's cards. i think there's a cascading series of events coming here. following the fiscal cliff with the debt limit. and then the sequester runs out. and then there's a short-term extension. sometime in april. they have to deal with. and i think the white house is calculated at every point, it's our plan versus the republican shutting everything down. and that's a hand they would like it play, i think, at the white house. andrea: at the same time, the president says i'm ready to compromise on medicare. well, will progressives, will that wing of the party let him actually put cards on the table? does he want to put cards on the table? >> i can tell you the white house sent little trial balloons to leaders in the progressive movement whether they would stomach anything like chain c.p.i. which the center for american progress has in the past championed. it was a no sale. and there hasn't been any give at all. and i think there's also a sense of almost free despair on the left that the president will give on the issue of deep cuts and entitlements. the signals that i'm getting to those close to the white house

they will draw a hard-line in the stand when it comes to the debt limit and say you know what, republicans, if you want to sell the idea of cutting medicare and social security barcia you don't want to pay our billions you do that in public. we're not even going to talk to you. the white house i think is going to buck up and do what the left wants. in terms of the debt limit, it's a sequester where you're going to see a lot more of a messy -- andrea: on the debt limit, is the white house prepared to actually go over that limit and >> i think they think in the end -- andrea: another game of chicken. >> the republicans always say they won't do it. of course we won't default. but then they -- >> and you've got a house speaker who has been threatened here. and he now has that right flank. and he's going to stand firm. and the polls show in the country by the way, that when you ask people would you like some balance, which everyone seems to be talking about, the answer is yes. and they understand that they got this -- the tax issue done so now they're going to look at

spending cuts. andrea: gloria, i want to show all of us something here. just to remind us of a different time. this is an image that says a lot about what washington used to be. tom brokaw pointed this out on morning joe and all watching and bob dole coming out of the hospital in a wheelchair. and insisting on getting out of his wheelchair and late senator dan inouye lying in state, and why did he stand snup i wouldn't want to see danny see knee a wheelchair. they vowed to devote the rest of their lives to public service and went on to serve together for years. decades in the senate. dole the rock-ribbed republican and inouye the liberal democrat. gloria, what does that say? >> that's a congress i actually covered. andrea: that's a congress we both covered. >> and it also reminds me of the days going back to the iran-contra committee which was the last bipartisan committee

in the congress where you had danny inouye and warren ruddman both dying within a month of each other. who worked together on that -- andrea: two great men. different parties. >> exactly. >> a little -- andrea: a little reality check. >> and we've -- we cover all of these fights. and i was trying to think and step back on the fiscal cliff, actually maybe speaker boehner did obama a big favor by making sure that got through the house. then the issue is off the table. we're going to talk about spending. i'm not sure i agree with michael that the white house holds the best hand here. because the country wants some sort of serious spending cuts. andrea: speaking of that, let me read you a quote from your own book. the book on the debt negotiations of 2011. remember those. many in the white house, said it was hard to get a deal because boehner had has to

prove to his members -- obama has to be destroyed, crushed but john boehner says no, it's all about cutting spending. i don't have an evil bone in my body. bob, it's humiliation still the goal of the republicans or -- >> it is for some. but i don't think it ever was for boehner. i think he's more of a pragmatic moderate. and we'll see if the white house is going to realize it's much better to have a speaker boehner with that mindset than somebody from the tea party or the more extreme right which would just lay down and let the country burn. andrea: mike duffy, who has more leverage here? boehner weakened somewhat by 10 people peeling off in his own caucus and a symbolic and warning gesture or the president who has to face a very tough road? >> i don't want to go against chairman woodward. andrea: i would never go against chairman woodward. >> they have a slightly better hand because the republicans are divided.

and not very much like. and the white house calculation, maybe politically, not substantively but politically the republicans are not very well liked and in disarray and they've calculated that this is a group that they can push around pretty nicely. i'll go as far as to suggest in the next -- long before we get to the debt limit i think it's the president who's going to put on the table the idea of let's do this now. let's get ahead of it. i think he feels -- a weak position. andrea: joy, is that even possible? is that possible? >> i think the president can put forward and say we can do a bigger deal. but i have to disagree with the chairman here. >> thank god. >> if the republicans believe that cutting spending was so popular, they would propose specific spending cuts. and you saw that even in these debt limit negotiations, it was in the end senate republicans who pulled back on social security cuts. because they recognized that optics of cutting social security while also attempting to prevent tax increases on the

rich didn't look good for them. and a larger -- >> larger entitlement solution, which would be changing the way you calculate social security or medicare benefits the way you adjust for inflation. those kinds of things are things that you know the president has winked at. said he could sign on to. and then back off. >> more than blinked at. there are documents where he said let's do this. and we're serious about it. andrea: let me move you guys to a bottom line here. quick answers here on whether you think the president is going to be denied any legacy or whether republicans also need to improve their image and get -- let him get something done. >> they both need to get something done. let's hope. there is kind of the national interest buried in all of this. and that should be the goal. >> you have to get through these speed bumps before you can even get to the president's agenda. so it's in his interests to get through it. andrea: and joy. >> i think republicans will be deeply disappointed on spending

cuts. they will console themselves with immigration reform. >> i think fiscal cliff unfortunately is the template for the whole year. they're going to have unpleasant ugly clashes. and they're going to get stuff done at the last minute. it will be bipartisan but it isn't going to be fun to watch. andrea: before we break something a little more uplifting. back for a third season sunday night. we're all glad the series has become an obsession here. last year's finale had 5.5 million viewers. huge these days. especially on public tv? why do we love it so much? beautifully produced and at the end of the edwardian age, those stately homes of britain like the churchill families, and all with a precision made possible by the part of upstairs and downstairs and also about the way society moves into the modern age. we love maggy smith as the accountant, a steadfasthold over from the old days.

>> i'll start tomorrow. >> in a partnership. you might have heard it. >> you do mean i mean to involve in you the running of the estate. don't worry. and of course i'll have the weekend. we'll discuss this later. we must not bore the ladies. andrea: you got to love that. the series proceeded from that era to the war when a telegram arrived announcing the war had begun and their world was changing. >> my lord, ladies and gentlemen, can i ask for silence. because i very much regret to announce that we are at war with germany. andrea: matthew the scion of abbey and across the channel with most of the village. the war came to the abbey and

the elegant lord grantham, grieved the death of his servants as he grieved his own family members. one rich man's decency, a decency that stands apart from and above so much that is crass today. but the sheer beauty of dalton abbey that continues to stir. and when we come back, 40 years since the supreme court confirmed a constitutional right to abortion. state after state has now put up barriers to abortion access. plus a set of

andrea: welcome back. 40 years ago this month, the supreme court a constitutional right to abortion in roe v. wade. as "time" magazine reports in this week's cover story opposition to abortion mostly among conservatives has led to

state laws erecting barriers to abortion access. just in the last two years, 24 states have now passed new abortion regulations. ranging from measures like waiting periods to require ultrasound. polls are conflicting on this. and recent polls have shown growing support for limits to abortion access. in the 2012 election the exit polls, an overwhelming 59% said they support keeping all or most abortions legal. only 31% does not. gloria, what are we seeing here? >> i think what you're seeing in the country is something bill clinton said a while ago. which is that people in this country want to keep abortion safe, legal and rare. you have a lot of technology now which allows you to see the fetus very, very -- at a very, very early stage. and i think in that sort of changed a lot of people's attitudes toward abortion. while they want to keep it legal, they want to keep it rare. andrea: joy, flches a reaction in the exit -- there was a

reaction in the exit polls and more support for the right to abortion. almost all circumstances according to that polling. is that a reaction to todd akin and richard mower dork and those ill-fated senate -- mourdock and those ill-fated senate races? >> there are men who want to eliminate the right to abortion or suffocate it where it's so difficult to obtain an abortion that it's effectively extinguished as a right. so and i think you are seeing an extremely aggressive minority within the republican party mostly -- whether they're winning in red states or in purple states and places like michigan where they are trying the long game. where they are trying to reduce the number of abortion clinics by making it difficult to license them. putting restrictions that are so onerous that it's so difficult that it effectively makes it illegal and i think this has shocked a lot of people into realizing that this fundamental right really isn't sacrosanct. andrea: 20 women in the senate and more women in the house. are we going to see some effort

to take -- >> this is a state war now. in one year, 94 restrictions in the u.s. and almost every state. and mip, a few days before new year's, you mentioned michigan. the governor signed a measure which would require any abortion clinic in the state to be registered essentially licensed and checked regularly as a single stand alone surgical procedure hospital. it has -- they're putting them through all kinds of hoops. and the polls you mentioned are exit polls. so when you look at a broader survey of the nation you'll find that the public is much more evenly split about just how -- the right to abortion is. andrea: bob, you're a student of the supreme court. does it end up becoming a supreme court issue again, revisiterring the basic fundamental right, the right to prichecy? the most validated -- >> i don't think so. i think that the smart cover story you guys have done on this. and i think what it shows is that there's a deep ambivalence

that even the pro-choice movement feels about abortion. and so no one is out there saying, hey, abortion is just a great thing. what they're saying is it is a necessary right, if you go back to when that decision was handed down by the warren burger supreme court, the vote was 7-2. in favor. and conservative chief justice warren burger was among the seven. so i don't think we're going to see it change. andrea: we're going to have to leave it there. when we come back scoops and predictions from the notebooks when we come back scoops and predictions from the notebooks of these top

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andrea: welch back, bob, tell me something i don't know. >> i'm not sure. this designation of chairman has got me. andrea: tell me something i don't know. >> the designation for the elderly. and i think the word israel is going to be in the headlines in the next four years. much more than we wish. >> talking to some leadership aides on both sides of the eel in the congress this week. -- of the aisle in the congress this week. and both of them said june at the earliest for anything to do with the president's agenda. whether it be immigration, tax reform, and probably not until next fall. given all of these issues. so june at the earliest. andrea: going to be a while. >> the most interesting --

edible struggle in the 2016 republican primary could be between marco rubio and jeb bush. jeb bush is marco rubio's mentor. a lot of people -- i've been in that camp that rubio wouldn't run if jeb ran and that jeb really wants to run. marco rubio is staffing up with people who he used to have mostly jeb people on his staff and cultivating rubio people. and his vote on the fiscal cliff, against -- his vote against that fiscal cliff deal shows that he is aligning himself with the tea party. and the two of them clashing, it could be a very interesting conversation between the two. >> i have nothin -- going to your point, there are two numbers that everyone can understand. the house and the senate are in session together. exactly five days in january. and 11 in february. which gives you a good read on why it's going to take so long.

andrea: and when we come back, does hillary clinton still in a st

andrea: welcome back. hillary clinton is out of the hospital. we're all glad for that. she has been cleared by her doctors to go back to work. she's already on the phone calling staff. big question of the week, if she wants to run for president, is she still in a strong position? bob? >> yes. >> gloria. >> absolutely. andrea: and bob and all of that you joe biden had an aneurysm. other candidates -- cheney we know about. five heart attacks. other candidates for national office have had health issues. >> they were men i should add. >> i think it was a worry but if she seems healthy and vigorous and enough time will have passed by the time, i think she would be in a strong

position. but so would joe biden. now that he has become sort of the hero of debt negotiations. it will be interesting to see if one of them sort of cancels out the other and convinces the other. andrea: to say -- >> unless there's more than we know it won't change and it reminds people of how much attention she can command. andrea: and just extraordinary and the only thing people want to know is how is hillary everywhere i want and knowing that i cover the state department and cover hillary clinton, that's all people cared about. anyway, thanks for a great roundtable and a great way to start the year. bob woodward, gloria borger, joy reid, and michael duffy. that's the show. happy new year to all of you. thanks for watchin