on "meet the press" this morning, a developing story. president obama has reacted strongly to another racial flash point in this country. >> when ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything. you just let them talk. >> the president talking this morning about those racist comments allegedly made by the owner of the los angeles clipsers basketbaclips e clippers. this morning i'll speak with the reverend al sharpton, lorraine miller and host of hbo's "real sports" bryant gumbel. plus, are we at the breaking nount ukraine. is the u.s. poised to ratchet up its standoff with russia? a key obama foreign policy adviser will be here to discuss that. also, my wide ranging and exclusive interview with the former prime minister of great

britain, tony blair, on why he thinks islamic extremism in the middle east is worse than it's ever been. from nbc news in washington, the world's longest running television program, this is "meet the press" with david gregory. good sunday morning. developing story this weekend to talk about. it's what we begin with. i'm joined by civil rights activist and the host of "politics nations" on msnbc, the reverend al sharpton. lorraine miller and bryant gumbel host of "real sports with bryant gumbel." here are the comments by donald sterling allegedly made by donald sterling first revealed on tape by the site tmz. listen. >> yeah, it bothers me a lot that you want to broadcast that you're associating with black people. do you have to? you can sleep with them, you can bring them in.

you can do whatever you want. the little i ask you is not to promote it on that -- and not to bring them to my games. >> this is purportedly, reverend, a conversation with sterling's girlfriend. what should happen now? >> well, i think that clearly the national basketball association must suspend him or must say that we're going to remove any kind of imprimatur we have on this team if he's the owner. you cannot have someone own an nba team in this country and have these kind of attitudes. you must remember he's settled multimillion dollar discrimination lawsuits in the past, so he has a background. so what we said is the nba ought to move right away. let's not play games. they say they're going to investigate. he needs to state unequivocally that's not me on the tape. if it is him on the tape, they need to move today, or we're going after advertisers saying how can you advertise with a team owned by a man with z--

>> all you have to do is ask him is that your voice, right? what else do you have to investigate? >> that's true, but i think there's a much more serious issue here. i think that we have to see if the obligations that we had in the emancipation proclamation have been filled. is there equality of opportunity in this country? is there really equality in the law? and those are the tenets that really make us as a country, our institutions, and part of our constitution, and if we do that, then i think we're moving in the step of trying to eradicate racism and discrimination. yes, we're going to do some of the things, we're going to work with reverend al on that, but i think we've got a much larger issue that we as a country have to deal with. >> bryant gumbel, step back here and look at this as a journalist but also somebody who has seen

these issued plays outside in the sports world. what do you make of it? >> i guess i'm surprised anyone is surprised. done ne na sterling's reputation is such that if you keep a vicious dog you can't be surprised when they bite someone. donald sterling's racial history is on the record. it has cost him money. it cost him his reputation long before this. and so i'm kind of amazed that anyone is surprised at this, and, frankly, i'm kind of surprised that the nba is being let off the hook on this. you know, david stern and the nba owners knew what kind of man donald sterling was long before this, and in the same way as -- although i'm not equating the crimes, in the same way as after aaron hernandez was charged with these felonies, people wondered why the new england patriots had him on their roster to begin with, one can sit here and look and say why did the nba allow this man to own a team when they knew what kind of a person he

was? >> and -- go ahead. >> that's my point. the nba -- people are appealing to the players and all. this is not about the players. this is about the nba saying that it's acceptable or excusable to behave like this, and we've seen where sports can unite a country. we just hung a plaque to nelson mandela at yankee stadium. he used rugby to bring south africa together after apartheid. this is the exact opposite of that. for the nba to not move immediately and say that this is inexcusable, is it your voice or not? if it is not his voice, said that today. >> there's all kinds of pressure including from the president of the united states. he went on to say more on this this morning. watch. >> the united states continues to wrestle with a legacy of race, and slavery and

segregation. that's still there. the vestiges of discrimination. we've made enormous strides, but you're going to continue to see this percolate up every so often, and i think that we just have to be clear and steady in denouncing it. >> yeah, absolutely. >> is that the most impact you can have, have the president putting that much pressure on the nba and the society as large? >> of course that's the impact. but i think for the american b publ public, as reverend al was saying, if you're silent about this, then you're accepting this, and people have got to say that this is not good and do something about it. and i think what he's proposing, what we're doing, i can assure you -- >> i'm sorry, because you were going to give him a lifetime achievement award at the naacp. >> he's not receiving a lifetime achievement award in the naacp

that's coming up in the next few weeks. >> you chronicle this -- go ahead, bryant. >> i was going to say, i don't want us to sit here singling out the nba because they are not necessarily the exception to the rule. i mean, baseball, for example, has an owner down in houston who has kind of the same tortured history as donald sterling in that his company was sued for discrimination and wound up paying a settlement and has said some things attributed to him that were inopportune. i don't want us to get side tracked. we historically whether it's donald sterling or cliven bundy, we look at the tip of the iceberg and ignore the mass underneath it and that's where the problem lies. >> but the danger is if we get past this sterling moment, we will never deal with the guy in houston or anywhere else. the nation, the president of the united states overseas had to

address this. that is why i agree with briant, t the nba can't be the end point but it has to be the beginning. if we don't deal with this, then what are we sending -- >> you made a larger point, look, there are concussions in the nfl, so many african-american players in the nfl. we talk about the nba as magic johnson said. you know, he shouldn't be the owner. he will never go to a game. my larger question is, if you're a player in the middle of this in a league that's prodominantly african-american, what do you do now in the middle of the playoffs? >> i'm glad you asked, david. look, i think the players of the clippers have an obligation to play. they have an contract. it says nothing about, oh, you only have to play if your owner turns out to be a great guy. i would like to see athletes and fans start taking a very good look at the owners who own their teams and particularly in light of the supreme court's recent decisions and how much money

people can give to causes and candidates taking a look at where their owners are putting their money. those owners certainly have a right to embrace the causes and candidates they wish, but i think african-american fans and players then have a right to say, what you're embracing is not consistent with what i believe in, and so i would rather play elsewhere or i'd rather spend my money elsewhere. that's where i think people need to be looking. >> this is a fast moving story and it looks like the nba will potentially move quickly on this. thank you all very much. >> thank you. >> for being here. appreciate it very much. >> thank you. we're going to turn to the latest on the crisis in ukraine. >> so long as russia continues down the path of provocation rather than trying to resolve this issue peacefully and de-escalating, there are going to be consequences and those consequences will continue to grow. >> with no end in sight to the crisis in ukraine and the middle east peace process in a state of collapse after israel pulled out of the talks, i'm joined by one of the president's top foreign

policy advisers, tony blinken. he's deputy national security adviser. mr. blinken, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks, david. >> let me start on ukraine. you were here in early march and you made it very clear what the united states is doing is having an impact on russia. this is what you said then. >> what we're doing is bringing the world together to exert significant pressure on russia and to exert significant isolation on russia and his actions and the actions we've taken in response are undermining that influence, undermining its economic influence, undermining its geopolitical influence. >> so you say. but here we are more than a month later, crimea is gone, russia is not listening to the united states. its troops are still on the border. economic sanctions have started. maybe they've had some bite but putin is standing tall. so what isolation and influence over putin have you really achieved? >> david, a week ago the russians signed onto a road map to de-escalate the crisis in ukraine. unfortunately, they haven't lived up to that road map in the

least. on friday the president despite being in asia convened all of the major european leaders on a conference call and got an agreement to move forward on additional sanctions which i think -- >> putin is not blinking. that's the point. you said over a month ago, hey, we're being tough on this guy. he's isolated. he's undermined. where is the evidence of that? >> let's look at what's happened over the last month as a result of the pressure that we've ex t exerted. russian financial markets are down 22%. the ruble is at often all-time low. we have foreign investment that's drying up, and we have capital flight, $70 billion over the last couple months. putin himself acknowledged this is having an impact on the russian economy. they're going to have to make a choice. are they going to persist in the actions they're taking to destabilize ukraine or are -- >> but they are persisting. all those things you say may be true. putin is persisting. so are you saying now he's close to backing down? >> i'm saying we're having a significant impact on the economy. we're keeping the world together and exerting the kind of pressure necessary to get him to

think hard about what he's doing. it's true, crimea was taken. crimea is going to be a dead weight on russia. they are pouring billions and billions of dollars into crimea to shore it up. that's going to have an impact. the bloom is going to come off this rose. putin said i'm going to deliver economic growth but in return you be politically complacent. the growth is drying up. so that compact is eroding and he has very hard choices to make. >> but he's also very popular for having grabbed crimea, and the question i have for you, i know speaking to people at the highest levels of the government, the prediction at this point is he doesn't invade ukraine. is that your view? does he stop short of that and just keep trying to destabilize ukraine? >> his goal i think is to destabilize ukraine. it's so delay the election. it's to disrupt the election -- >> you don't think he'll invade? >> he has troops poised at the borders. we've seen him take -- engage in very dangerous maneuvers twice

this week. he has that card. but i don't think it's in his interest to do that. here's why. if he were to invade ukraine, not only with would the entire international community come down on him with extraordinary pressure but he would inherit a lot of people who have no decision to have the russians on their backs. >> here is a question then ultimately for whether you move next with big economic sanctions. the europeans want to do business in russia. they do a lot more than the united states does. often u.s. companies can get hurt more than anybody else here. do you specifically target putin with sanctions next if he goes into eastern ukraine? >> the president has been very deliberate about building the pressure, working very closely with the europeans. one of the reasons he got the europeans together on this call on friday and got a very strong g-7 statement is to try and move in coordination with them. >> would you target putin specifically? >> what we've done to date is looked at individuals around putin. we've looked at companies and entities that they control.

we've looked at senior russian officials. it's a rare thing to go after the leader of a country. right now what we'll be doing as early as tomorrow but certainly sometime this week is to go after people very close to him, go after the entities they control -- >> are you ruling out targeting -- >> i'm not ruling anything in or anything out. >> and his vast wealth which has been reported as lately as this morning. >> what we're seeing is the people around him are being directly affected by the measures we're taking and the steps the europeans are taking. >> pull back here. what is the larger strategic interest for the united states? hone honestly, putin cares more about crimea and the ukraine does than the united states does in terms of managing the world. >> russia went in to a country and tried to redraw the map of the country by force. if we stand by and allow that to happen, that sets a terrible precedent. virtually everywhere else in the world, and we're hearing that in asia from some of our asian partners, even hearing it from the chinese. there's something else going on here, too. when the soviet union fell apart

and a number of successor countries were left, including ukraine, many of them had thousands of nuclear weapons on their territory. one of the great achievements of the clinton administration was to get ukraine and other countries to give up their nuclear weapons. countries like russia, the united states, the uk would sign onto a compact guaranteeing their sovereignty and territorial integrity. russia signed that, it's grossly violated that. what message does that send to countries where we're trying to gi get them to give up -- >> is there any military cost ex acted by the united states or nato if putin moves forward? >> we're trying to de-escalate this crisis, not escalate. we don't see a military confrontation but we see increasing support for ukraine. we have a program that will get $37 billion or $38 billion to ukraine. >> on the middle east and the peace process unraveling. does the president decide to

pull secretary kerry and get him out of the peace making business in the middle east or stf possible that the united states in the absence of negotiating partners advances its own peace plan, puts it on the table, and says get to work? >> thanks to secretary kerry's incredible leadership and determination, the parties made progress in breaking through some of the road blocks but not all of them. the fundamental problem now is they're at a point where they're confronted with having to make very, very difficult decisions. >> understood. >> neither side has been willing to do that. we can't want this more than they do. it may be there needs to be a little pause. people need to step back and reflect and look at the alternatives but because of the engagement the secretary has had, because of the strong support from the president, we've gotten them closer. >> does kerry come out for now? >> we're going to take this day by day. we have to see -- they need a chance to reflect on where they are, look at the alternatives. he will be deeply engaged with them, but right now the bottom line is this, we can't want this more than they do -- >> so you're saying the united

states would not advance its own peace plan. >> we need the parties to reflect on where they are and think about the next steps they want to make. >> tony blinken, thanks so much. for more on the foreign policy challenges facing president obama i sat down exclusively with former british prime minister tony blair. he issued an urgent warning about why the u.s. has to extinguish islamic ex trimism but first i asked him about ukraine. again, you've looked into putin's eyes, as did president bush. he's already taken crimea. he must sense enough weakness that he's not backing down, he's not following through on this truce of a kind. what do you think his end game in all this is? >> i think that's hard to guge. i think what you can say is that the idea that he has is of a resurgent russia obviously linking up with russian-speaking people in the vicinity of russia. i think it's hard to know what the end game is, but i'm absolutely sure that we're right

to take a strong approach and to lay down some very clear messages and be prepared to back that up with action if necessary. now, i hope that -- as i say, i hope this can be resolved in a way that is peaceful because that's massively in the interest of everybody because otherwise you'll be back in a situation where the relationship between russia and europe and russia and the west becomes very difficult. >> you're talking this week, and you have made some provocative comments, about the state of the middle east and radical islam, and i'm going to show a portion of your speech that you gave this week in which you said the threat of this radical islam is not abating, it is growing. it's spreading across the world. it is destabilizing communities and even nations, and in the face of this threat, we seem curiously reluctant to acknowledge it and powerless to counter it effectively. why is this happening and who specifically do you blame for it happening? >> i don't think it's a question of blaming anyone, but i think we've got to understand the nature of what is happening with this islamist ideology.

i mean, the reason -- and i say this with a certain amount of humility. i went through the post-9/11 world, afghanistan, iraq trying to deal with these issues. i think what is absolutely clear in the middle east and beyond is that the single most important thing to understand about the different countries with their different conflicts and challenges is that the common theme is the disruptive effect of an ideology based on an extreme, in my view, perverted view of the proper faith of islam. this has been exported from the middle east. i'm afraid it is growing. it's not abating. >> but is that in part because this administration has taken its foot off the gas pedal? >> look, there was a presidential campaign and an effort by this president to leave these wars in afghanistan and iraq and to get out of the business of trying to change the middle east. >> sure.

>> was that part of the problem, why it's not abating? >> what have we learned from this experience? both the experience of intervention through afghanistan and iraq and then the experience of the last few years? what we've learned is that both are very difficult, right? we know how difficult it's been in the engagements in iraq and afghanistan, but we also know when we look at syria today, which is a country in disintegration, probably well over 150,000 people dying now and no end in sight, or if we look at libya where we did intervene through air power alone, changed the government but it is a mess and exporting its problems across the middle east. what we have to understand rather than saying, you know, who is to blame for this is to say, what is the nature of this threat and how do we counter it? >> but what you're saying is that you have to call it what it is, and you can't be reluctant to act. and on this program last week david brooks, columnist for "the new york times," said the

following about president obama. he said, let's face it, obama, whether deservedly or not, does have i'll say it crudely, this is him speaking, but a manhood problem in the middle east. is he tough enough to stand up to somebody like assad, somebody like putin? i think a lot of the rap is unfair, but certainly in the middle east there is an assumption that he is not tough. you mentioned syria. the president drew a red line, chemical weapons were used, he did not follow through. you have sectarian violence, you have what could be the verge of a failed state in syria. >> right. but the question is what do you now do about this? we can debate how we got here and as you rightly pointed out there's a huge reaction, not just in america by the way, but in the uk and over our side of the water as well against the concept of intervention. what i'm really saying is, look, if we analyze correctly what the nature of the problem is, in each of these individual countries there are things that we're going to have to do that require commitment and engagement. it doesn't mean doing what we did in iraq or afghanistan, but it does mean being prepared to engage and engage specifically

knowing and identifying that the problem is around this islamist ideology, so whether it's, for example, in egypt or whether it would be in yemen or syria -- >> isn't the legacy of your leadership and that of president bush in part responsible for the reality today? to wit, i mean this. i have spoken to writers, other generalists, leaders, former secretary of defense bob gates writes in his memoir, afghanistan was the proving ground for islamic fundamentalism in the muslim world, and by invading iraq, there was necessarily a transfer of tremendous resources to fight the war in iraq, and today the taliban is resurgent and still very powerful in pakistan and could be once again in afghanistan. so part one to that -- >> right. >> -- did you, did president bush, did the west fail to deal with the extremism you talk about today appropriately in

afghanistan in a sustainable way? >> i think we did, but i think we've got to recognize one thing very, very clearly. this is a long battle. the best way to look at this is to take an analogy probably with something like revolutionary communism or even fascism. in other words, this ideology is not going to be defeated by an engagement in afghanistan, in iraq, or even in these individual arenas. it's going to be defeated over a long period of time -- >> right, but it's very difficult -- you're a former politician. in order to keep free societies engaged in the kind of engagement that you say is necessary for a long, sustained period of time and then you have to ultimately look at results, right? so the question about iraq. the former head of mi-5 in great britain, the domestic service there, said this back in 2011 about the invasion of iraq and the impact. in my view, she says, whatever the merits of putting an end to

saddam hussein, the war was also a distraction from the pursuit of al qaeda, it increased the terrorist threat by convincing more people that osama bin laden's claim that islam was under track. it provided an arena for the jihad for which he had called. it showed clearly foreign and domestic policies are intertw e intertwined. it will affect great britain and could affect america. >> we've got to liberate ourselves from this because we're making a huge error when we end up thinking somehow it's our actions that have caused this. let's be very clear in afghanistan and iraq, you can agree or disagree with either decisi decision. we removed brutal dictatorship, allowed the people a chance to elect their government. they came out in both cases and voted showing that they wanted such election. we gave them a massive amount of financial support. what was the disruptive effect? the disruptive effect was that

very ideology i'm talking about on the one side being pushed out of iran from the iranian theocracy. on the other side al qaeda and other groups, and they combined to try to destabilize the wishes of the majority of the country. now, when we weren't involved as in syria, they're still going and fighting jihad there. so you can carry on explaining all this by saying it's us, we provoked them, you know, it's really -- they're just trying to react against western imperialism. it's nonsense. if it were the case, for example, that the reason why they were engaged in this terrorism in iraq was because of the presence of american troops or british troops, you would rorism would stop. out, the it doesn't. and it doesn't because it's not coming from us. it's coming from this ideology, and we aren't going to defeat it until we liberate ourselves from the attitude that somehow we're the cause of it. >> the obvious conclusion to me

from what you're saying is this administration, this president is making a mistake by disengaging from iraq, by disengaging militarily from afghanistan, and by having a view as he has said publicly that the united states should only intervene where it truly believes it can make a difference. i hear you saying, no, if you want to tackle radical islam, if you want to prevent the occurrence of failed states, america specifically must project its power in these places because the struggle is so long. >> no, i'm not criticizing president obama at all over this because, as i say, i went through these types of decisions, i know how difficult it is, and what he was quite rightly pointing to which you indicated earlier is public opinion has got fatigued with engagement. what i'm saying is this, the engagement that we enter into doesn't have to be like iraq or afghanistan. >> could the world more effectively deal with radical

islam had the invasion of iraq not occurred? >> no, because the fact is, you know, radical islam was responsible for 9/11 before afghanistan, before iraq. this has been a long -- >> that wasn't saddam hussein. >> no, it wasn't saddam hussein, but the fact is the existence of this ideology, it didn't start post-9/11. it didn't start post-afghanistan or iraq. again, this is where we've got to be realistic about this. this has grown up over a long period of time. it's come out of the middle east. it's been taught in informal and formal education systems, and the thing i'm saying is, look, climate change is a big issue. the running of the global economy is a big issue. but so is educating our young people to an open-minded attitude and mindset for the world. >> the middle east peace process, is it about to crumble and what's your angle on this?

what would you do to somehow revive it? >> keep going. you can never give up with these things. look, i remember -- >> even if it looks like it's going nowhere. >> if i had given up by the northern ireland peace process looked as if was going nowhere, we would never have got there. the fact is in the end in the middle east, what do people know? they know there is only one solution which is two states living side by side and actually a majority of people support it. now, the politics of both sides make it tough right now, but i think john kerry has shown really great leadership and commitment in pushing this and driving it, and i think he's got to keep going with it, and however difficult it is and, you know, the last few days have been difficult, my strong advice would be, you know, we know what the right thick ng to do is her let's keep going it. >> as people are watching it on sunday, it's an important day for the catholic church with the canonization of two former popes. do you believe the catholic

church has the same influence it has had as not just an organizing force for the world but a true force for good and influential force in the world? is it reaching its potential in that regard? >> i think like all great institutions, it has to evolve and change over time. i think the new pope is doing a great job in that respect, but, yes, i think the catholic church still has great authority, and so i'm opt stick about the church's future. >> through the difficult and dark days of your own time as prime minister, how did your own faith stay strong and how did you work to strengthen it during those periods? >> when you do a really big job with enormous responsibilities and you are someone of faith, then it's not -- i always explain this to people otherwise they misunderstand it. it's not like you can say a prayer to god around he tells you what the answer is on a particular policy question, but it gives you, if you like, a

backbone, not just mentally but spiritually, and it also gives you a sense, which i think is very important, of your own humility as a decision maker. even though you are called upon to take these decisions, you should always be, i think, humble before god in taking them. so for me i found my faith strengthened rather than diminished when i was in office. >> i've asked but politics and religion. the only hard thing left is art. a certain rendering of you by president bush that you have seen and i wonder what your reaction is? >> i think he's flattering me. i wish i looked that good. >> tony blair. you can see a longer version of the interview with prime minister blair on our website. coming up here, more on the politics of race in this

country. nevada rancher cliven bundy has been called a domestic terrorist and republicans are distancing themselves from bundy after he made remarks this week. why has this [ male announcer ] some come here to build something smarter. ♪ some come here to build something stronger. others come to build something faster... something safer... something greener. something the whole world can share. people come to boeing to do many different things. but it's always about the very thing we do best. ♪ but with so much health care noise, i didn't always watch out for myself. with unitedhealthcare, i get personalized information and rewards for addressing my health risks. but she's still gonna give me a heart attack. that's health in numbers.

unitedhealthcare. (announcer) scottrade knows our and invest their own way. with scottrade's smart text, i can quickly understand my charts, and spend more time trading. their quick trade bar lets my account follow me online so i can react in real-time. plus, my local scottrade office is there to help. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) scottrade. voted "best investment services company." here now, some of this week's images to remember. ♪

the week's images to remember. coming up, our political round table. we'll have more on the discussion about the persistence of racism in america and the supreme court's upholding of a ban on predicting the future is a pretty difficult thing to do. but, manufacturing in the united states means advanced technology. we learned that technology allows us to be craft oriented. no one's losing their job. there's no beer robot that has suddenly chased them out. the technology is actually creating new jobs. siemens designed and built the right tools and resources to get the job done.

we're back with our political round table. jeffrey goldberg, a correspondent for the atlantic magazine and columnist for bloomberg view. neera tanden is president of the center for american progress, and former policy director for hillary clinton. rich lowry is editor of the national review and new to the round table, happy to have mallory factor, professor of international politics and american government at the citadel military college in

south carolina. he is also the editor of the best selling book, "big tent: the story of the conservative revolution." a lot to get to there, but a lot to get to just in our sunday morning conversation here, neera. bryant gumble on eastermel o eg program. here is what he said a minute ago. >> we historically, whether it's donald sterling or cliven blundy or trayvon martin, we look at a tip of the iceberg and we ignore the mass underneath it. >> what is the mass underneath this latest flash point of race here with donald sterling? >> look, i think what bryant is talking about is the fact that, you know, even when you're talking about affirmative action, other issues, there's still a lot of racism in america. we look at these instances and get repelled but there are voices out there, and it's a harder issue than it was in the past because people are expressing private thoughts. but a donald sterling actually

has the power to affect people's lives because his housing discrimination case in which he was actually accused and had to pay money because he was discriminating against african-americans. i think the issue is racism is harder in some ways because people are communicating thoughts that are hard to -- you know, african-americans, asian-americans, latinos feel sometimes that they're not getting the jobs that they would have gotten otherwise, but people aren't saying, you know, saying it out loud. >> it's important to remember that his voice has not been v veri verified. i this the investigation has to establish that key thing and we'll wait, rich lowry, for the nba to do this. i have a feel it will move forward one way or another pretty fast here. do you see it that way? some of my reaction is it's such outlier behavior. i'm not saying i'm surprised there's racism in america but it immediately strikes people as, my gosh, that's so beyond the pale. >> well, i think it's an important point. he should get whatever due process is due an nba owner, but

when you're on owner of an nba team and you're denounced by the predent of the united states and lebron james, i don't know which of those is more important but it's a sign you're in big trouble. i don't think racism is harder than it was when we had laws in the south that would forbid people from staying zwroo-- >> it's harder to litigate. it's not worse today. >> right. we've made enormous progress. you're never going to have a society where people don't believe or say stupid, hateful, and noxious things but there is a generational element to this. the younger you are the less likely you are to hear this kind of sentiments. >> there's also affirmative action mallory. the supreme court weighed in saying the states have the option to forbid, to prohibit affirmative action if they want to go to the ballot box and do that and in her dissent justice sotomayor wrote this. race matters for reasons that really are only skin deep, that

cannot be discussed any other way, that cannot be wished away. race matters to a young man's view of society when he spends his teenage years watching others tense up as he passes no matter the neighborhood where he grew up. race matters to a young woman's sense of self when she states her hometown and then is pressed, no, where are you really from regardless of how many generations her family has been in the country. >> david, this was a 6-2 decision, so let's look at the six as o opposed to the two. what you're really looking at is the court finally saying, we're going to not make law from on high. we're going to leave the law to the states and let the states make some decisions. affirmative action, we can argue about good or bad, but we've let the states bring it to their people and make the decisions. affirmative action some people would say is tying one person's hand behind their back to give someone else an opportunity to work with both hands. the states can now speak and do what they think is right. i think that this was a good decision. i think it's a good decision for

america and i think for once the court -- once in this particular instance the court isn't making law from on high. >> refere >> jeffrey? >> one of the shock that is we have when cliven bundy or sterling, these things come out, is that we all thought in 2008 we had achieved something unique and new for the united states, a black president. there was -- you have to remember back, there was joyous disbelief on the part of some people and some horrified disbelief on the part of some others. it was a real watershed moment but the election of one man to one office twice doesn't actually change underlying structural problems. attitude problems, cultural problems and real economic structural problems. i think each time one of these incidents arises,e sort of say, but, wait, we're a country with a black president yet it still happens. >> so my question, rich, when you see a situation like bundy,

bundy presents a problem for, you know, those republican politicians who embraced him because they like to throw their arms around somebody fighting against the federal government, and then all of a sudden he makes racist comments and they run for the exits, as anybody does, as opposed to comments like this in an industry, in sports, reverend sharpton said they can bring people together, but you have a lot of white owners and a lot of african-american players. that has real high stakes. >> yeah, but he's a real outlier. he has apparently a hit of this kind of thing, not just in his behavior but in his statements, but he's in no way characteristic of nba owners which is why we're talking about this. >> but how do we know that for sure? how do you know these incidents, you see one guy, two guys get caught on private tapes, how do we know they're so marginal. these are guys who are caught. i'm not saying it's widespread in the nba but i'm saying how do we know these feelings aren't

widespread in the corporate -- >> all you can look for is a society where everyone has equality of opportunity and is treated equally under the law, and this goes to the affirmative action decision this week. justice sotomayor's opinion to me seemed otherworldly, that the 14th amendment of the constitution might forbid a state from adopting race neutral policies in its college admissions. they had this long 58-page opinion about minoritied and affirmative action and not once did they mention asian-americans who are often the victims of this policies. >> just on this affirmative action really quickly, in this week, and we were just talking about this, this week is a big college admissions week, and we're talking about -- obviously the country is moving away from race-based affirmative action and the reason conservatives are so happy about this decision is that they know that in the states this is going to be an unpopular decision and laws are going to be rolled back, but there is this phenomenon of white affirmative action and

it's called legacy admissions in universities. we never really talk about that as an equivalently pernicious if your view is race based is pernicious. there are so many structural problems here for the advancement of minorities, and one of them is that you do have affirmative action for white people in so many different areas and so many different ways. >> race has been considered pernicious. if you want to help people lower down the income scale, get into college, by all means let's do that, but let's not do it by checking boxes on the basis of race and actually discriminating against some minorities. >> this is why i think they're so tough, right? because we say let's have race neutral requirements, but the truth is, you know, what we hear from a cliven bund yip y or thi recent case with the nba, the allegation is -- people have

very pernicious views and it's actually hard to bring discrimination suits. it's a very hard test. what affirmative action says is, you know what? we haven't perfected a race neutral country, and i think we know that from these incidents. we don't live in a race neutral country. there's still a burden for that, so how do we solve those issues, right? how do we get to a place where everyone -- and i think colleges like the university of michigan say diversity is something that benefits us. >> mallory, go ahead. >> there are outliers, there always will be, and these outliers are bad. they're doing bad things. they're saying bad things. the fact of the matter is do we take that kid, that kid who has worked very hard who may come from a low income family who happens to be white and we push him aside for somebody who has had more opportunities because he's black or hispanic. that's wrong. >> fewer opportunities? why do you say that? african-americans --

>> why because it's true. >> african-americans aface so many -- asians, there are still disparities. >> there's disparities because of income, too. >> i think it would be great if we lived in a clairvoyant society but from this week we know it's not true. >> we talked about inequality and affirmative action. rich, i want to segue to again two big moments. an animating force on the left is elizabeth warren, right? out in a book this week, senator, of course, on the issue of income inequality. on the right an animating force is this ongoing animus toward the federal government, the idea that the federal government has gotten out of control. and we see this playing out in this rancher dispute. but on the income inequality part, where does elizabeth warren reside do you think in the elementic party? is it a growing influence? >> she's a hero of the left and

a rock star really and it's not something you would expect, a former harvard professor and somebody whose expertise is in financial regulation. it's because she's hitting on this issue area of income inequality and the supposed rigged nature of our capitalist system. it's fascinating because it's a post-clinton kind of politics and in some ways a post-obama kind of politics. >> inequality and crony capitalism are resonating with the republican conservative base as well. i think that that's an issue that you're going to see on the conservative side. it does resonate there, too, and i think elizabeth warren is actually resonating with a lot of people based on this income inequality, particularly when she talks about crony capitalism. >> quick comment. >> 95% of the income gains in the last two years have gone to the top 1%. that's a fact in the country. so i agree with you. i think it's going ton an issue that both the right and the left and i actually think that president clinton, putting people first, talked about fairness in the economy.

i think it's a live issue. >> we're going to take a break. we'll come back with more from our round table in a couple minutes. also, a striking admission from president obama on one of his life's biggest regrets. this happened this morning. we'll bring it to you. "meet the press" is brought to you by -- ♪ ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. [ birds squawking ] ♪ my mom makes hospitals you can hold in your hand. ♪ my mom can print amazing things right from her computer. [ whirring ]

[ train whistle blows ] my mom makes trains that are friends with trees. [ train whistle blows ] ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ wbecame your business. passion... my mom works at ge. at&t can help simplify how you manage it. so you can focus on what you love most. when everyone and everything works together, business just sings.

as the company that's all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. with xerox, you're ready for real business. [ banker ] sydney needed some financial guidance so she could take her dream to the next level. so we talked about her options. her valuable assets were staying.

and selling her car wouldn't fly. we helped sydney manage her debt and prioritize her goals, so she could really turn up the volume on her dreams today...and tomorrow. so let's see what we can do about that... remodel. motorcycle. [ female announcer ] some questions take more than a bank. they take a banker. make a my financial priorities appointment today. because when people talk, great things happen. time now for cnbc's executive edge week ahead brought to you by comcast business, built for business. expect jittery markets ahead of an interest update. on friday comes the monthly jobs report. finally all this month we're marking 25 years since cnbc's first broadcast. on tuesday we're going to be unveiling the 25 people who made the biggest impact on business

in the past quarter century. stay with us all day and tune in on tuesday at 7:00 p.m. eastern time for a special look at the lives and legacies the performance review. that corporate trial by fire when every slacker gets his due. and yet, there's someone around the office who hasn't had a performance review in a while. someone whose poor performance is slowing down the entire organization. i'm looking at you phone company dsl. go to comcastbusiness.com/ checkyourspeed. if we can't offer faster speeds or save you money we'll give you $150. comcast business built for business.

♪ 800,000 hours of supercomputing time, 3 million lines of code, 40,000 sets of eyes, or a million sleepless nights. whether it's building the world's most advanced satellite, the space station, or the next leap in unmanned systems. at boeing, one thing never changes. our passion to make it real. ♪ action! and bad mistakes...ake it real. cut. yeah. i've made a few. i've had my share of sand kicked in my face. ♪ but i've come through. ♪ and i just go on and on, and on, and on. ♪ you know how it goes. ♪

all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. how much money do you think you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. it's hard to imagine how much we'll need for a retirement that could last 30 years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently,

if we want to be ready for a longer retirement. ♪

welcome back. and happening this morning, pope francis declared two of his predecessors, pope john paul ii and john xxiii saints before a crowd of hundreds of thousands in st. peter's square. the ceremony also unique for being attended by pope benedict who sat alongside francis. that's just an amazing picture to see. we want to talk about it with our round table. there is, of course, just the sight of the two of them together, but also some of the controversy surrounding canonization of both of these

figures, john paul ii, the question of pedophilia in the catholic church, one thing that's been talked about a lot this week. >> they're very excited about this. the real observation i have about this is that it's brilliant politics among other things. you take -- you canonize two pops popes at one. a more conservative leaning pope and the great liberalizer of the catholic church. it's an interesting lesson for our political parties. he's building a big tent catholic church right before our eyes and our political parties don't seem to have internally that kind of skill in bringing everybody together. >> mallory, you think a lot about this, the secularization in our society versus the role of the church and the impact on our politics. >> the church's impact is huge. one of the things that we found out in "big tent" is 28% of americans are deeply religious.

another 10% to 12% are very strongly religious. this is going to have a major, major impact in our society on voting. interesting enough, that entire group are not republican. they split. somebody is going to capture them. and when they do, they're going to have a huge whopping majority. >> another moment this morning happening that i wanted to share is a moment from -- you know, whenever the president goes overseas, there's a lot of press conferences. we love that, and there's an opportunity to take questions. this was a town hall the president had and he was asked about his regrets. >> i regret not having spent more time with my mother because she died early. she got cancer and right around when she was my age actually, she was just a year older than i am now, she died. it happened very fast in about

six months. >> what a tender moment and a great life lesson in that, right? >> and i have to say, as a mom, i can't think of a better me message myself. you are always hoping your kids grow up and think things like that. i know the president's mother died at an early age and he talked a lot about her -- >> that's classic obama and that's classically why he won the last time. all the polls on the issues had him down, but people really respond to him and he does a magnificent job and i believe he's sincere about this, too. this is the reason he's president of the united states and mitt romney lost. >> what i'm doing when i get off the set is going and calling my mom. >> the issue of regret in politics, expressing regret, i will never forget talking to bush advisers at the height of the iraq war and their feeling like if we admit a mistake on something, you in the press will kill us which says something about the state of journalism then and now, but these are

important moments for leaders to reflect and say this is something i did that was wrong, and i'm trying to work through this. it is a great teaching moment. >> yeah. people are wary of doing it obviously because they come off as weak, but the american people are tremendously forgiving and often times you're going to benefit from actually being frank about something you regret or know you got wrong. >> yeah. i remember in synagogue hearing a sermon about the importance of to your loved ones, to your friends making a point and saying i love you. you never know. we're so grateful to be in this moment. we should rejoice in it and tell somebody how much we love them. so i love all of you. thank you. >> highly emotional. >> that is -- on that note, that is all for today. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." .

good monday morning. coming up on "early today," deadly tornadoes, an outbreak of twisters across multiple states kills more than a dozen. and injures four more. meteorologist bill karins says there is more danger ahead. racist, offensive, disgusting. just a few reactions to the latest comments allegedly from los angeles clippers owner donald sterling as his own team voices a silent protest. deal-making. president obama is in manila today where he expanded access in the philippines as he caps off a four nation asia tour. and bed time in broad daylight in the florida keys? it's monday, april 28th. "early today" starts right now.