ive, local news update. por su vida en el norte de this morning, ending with h gunfire. a fragile truce. israel and hamas agreed to stop fighting, hours later, hamas begins firing. live in gaza. what happened pence, startling new allegations of what went on pence the kennedy compound when police say a man broke in and ended up making himself at home. how did he end up eating dinner

with a young kennedy family member. over the arch. >> aaaahhh >> natalie and jenna are getting ready for the ride of a lifetime, a 200-foot plunge in the middle of the rocky mountains. the day takes off to a whole new level. >> nbc news, this is "today." with matt lauer and savannah guthrie. live from studio 1a in rocky fell ler plaza. >> good morning, everyone, welcome to "today" on a thursday morning. i can't stand to watch natalie and jenna. >> 200-feet, 100 miles an hour. have we checked the seven second delay on our audio? it's wild.

>> natalie. >> a company called acme. >> never a good sign. >> i'm sure we will see jenna and natalie do that feat live. a top story, a hostage situation that started out as a bank robbery, quickly took a dramatic and deadly turn in northern california. nbc's joe fryer is there live. good morning to you. >> reporter: it started at the west bank where robbers took three hostages. from there, a violent police chase and shootout that lasted over an hour and spanned a large area, leaving three people dead. two suspect itself and one hostage. >> i could see the car getting blasted. >> reporter: a scene out of an action movie played out on a california highway wednesday. >> i could see nothing but police cars on the bridge. cars were just, there it is,

kind of mangled and all of a sudden i heard it, pow! pow, pow, pow! >> reporter: police say three men with ak-47 rifles robbed a bank of the west branch and took three fe pail hostages holding when points to their head. >> they weren't going to take no for an answer. even though cops were all around them. >> reporter: minutes later, they fled in an suv and the case began, first on the highway, then a shootout in a residential neighborhoo neighborhood. >> shots still being fired. >> reporter: the gunfire on this day was so reckless that mumtple uninvolved residences and vehicles were struck. >> reporter: during the chase, two hostage, both bank employees were either thrown or jumped from the vehicle. one suffered a gunshot wound. the other was grazed by a bullet. after the chase, a the third hostage, a bank customer, was found dead pence the suv. police believe the suspect used her as a shield during the

shootout. >> i got down on my hands and knees and i hid behind the lawn mower. >> police say one suspect was pronounced dead at the scene. the second suspect was taken to the hospital where he was later pronounced dead a. third suspect is still in the hospital and is expected to survive. >> during my 18 years of a law enforcement officer. this is the first time i seen this here in the city. >> reporter: dozens and dozens of shots were fired during that high speed chase. at least 14 police cars were hit, but no officers or bystanders. this morning, we are learning from police that the suspects were doultd gang members and relatives els tell us the hostage who died was a 41-year-old wife and mother, savannah, matt. >> thank you. we want to turn now to a temporary cease-fire in the middle east. israel and hamas have agreed to a cease-fire for aid and food to

get to people who feed them the most. almost before it started, it appeared to be over. richard engel is in gaza city. richard, good morning to you. >> reporter: good morning. for a few hours this city looked very different than it does right now a. brief humanitarian pause of the fighting was in place. people for the first time in ten days were able to go out of their homes, do a little shopping, go to visit their farms, go to the bank. now that humanitarian pause is certainly over. rockets are once again fired from gaza into israel. we heard several incoming strikes, incoming israeli airstrikes in gaza city. we have seen the black presumes of smoke in the city behind me. the question is, are we now seeing the final stages in this conflict? there are numerous reports that a permanent cease-fire deal could be in the works t. final details of that cease-fire have not been reached. a deal is being worked out.

it comes after several palestinians were killed yesterday. yesterday, anise real shell sma smashed. it came without warning in broad daylight. a group of boys, cousins, playing on the beach ran for their lives until second later, another shell hits. israel claimed it was firing on hamas militants at the force him but the dead were four young boys several others from the same extended families were wounded, including this boys, he managed to crawl up the beach to a monita hotel. medics rushed in to take the wounded boy to the hospital. parents started to arrive, expecting the worst. a mother asks, where is my son? where is my love?

then her worst fears came true. oh! oh! >> reporter: as word spread, the other boy's family came, too. "what were the boys doing, one father asks, they didn't have any rockets. pence the hospital, they spoke with the wounded boy. he could barely talk, shaking and bleeding. "we were playing," he said. i was withpy cousin. then they died. outside the crowds gathered and grief turned to anger over the deaths of four boys who just hours earlier had done nothing more than play on the beach. >> that was richard engel in gaza city. meantime the palestinian american boy family says he was beaten by israeli authorities is now back in the u.s. this morning. he had been visiting relatives in israel when he was arrested and allegedly beaten. last night he arrived in. fla, thanking family and friends

for their support. >> i got to give back to you because i you you were all thinking of me, praying for me and sending a message to me. >> israeli police say he was arrested during a protest for his palestinian cousin, who was murdered. savannah. >> now a new nbc poll showing how tight race for president could be. this as new jersey governor chris christie heads to iowa. could he be dipping his toe in those presidential waters? >> nbc news political director conduct todd is here. we'll have more on that. good morning to you. let's start right there with chris christie. your poll is showing a crowded republican field and really yellow flags for christie. >> a ton. there is a reason. if he is going to run for president, he has a lot of work to do. he will be sitting in iowa a bit. that's the standing of the republican party and the candidate for republican voters

in iowa, to look at unfavorable ratings. look at this, chris christie starts out as the most unpopular republicans thinking of running for president. paul is seen as the most popular, christie the least popular, savannah, as you know, this has to do with the fact he's not seen as a true conservative. they don't like he hung out with president obama during sandy, they don't like how he's appointed people to judges and things like that. so that's really the hole he has to did he go out of. >> let's go over to the democratic side. you are polling iowa, you have a lopside result, you have hillary clinton with the vice president joe biden. >> you do. maybe it's not a surprise hillary clinton is running away with this. remember, iowa was the beginning of the end of that first presidential campaign where barak obama caught her. this time, her numbers are better now than we've ever seen them before. democrats are ready for hillary.

are independents and swing voters in these states? >> we asked you that question. when you do a general election, now who hillary clinton, you see a much tighter race. >> i do, look who we matched them up with. we matched her up with christie, jeb bush, scott walker, you name it. the best person who does hillary clinton is rand paul. look at this here. he ties her in iowa. it's a three-point race. savannah, i think this is an important point. people talk about jeb bush and chris christie, the actual republican front runner right now at the start of the race, rand paul. >> i know you are excited. 15 months away. give me an early vote. >> hey, hey. >> tamron is in for natalie getting ready to be thrown off a cliff. >> this is a big one, an arizona law maker is apologizing after

he mistook a bus filled with ymca campers for a bus filled with children. tom. good morning. >> reporter: good morning. the issue of how the migrant children is happening all over the country. one politician opposed to it took it one step further, threatening to confront one of the groups head on, a group of children, and he was live tweeting the whole way through. but those kids were going to summer camp oracle, arizona is the latest town torn in two. >> i am american. >> as pro testers await the possible arrival of buses carrying migrant children. >> why are you allowing these children to be used this way? >> reporter: at the scene tuesday, a republican, running for congress, when a school bus filled with children approach he tweeted, bus coming in. this is not compassion. this is the abrogation of the rule of law. >> i want people to see the children on the buses, the fear on their faces. >> reporter: it turns out, that

bus was actually filled with ymca kids headed to day camp, which he learned from a reporter from an affiliate. >> did you know that was a bus with ymca kids. >> they were sad, too. i apologize, i was leaving when i saw that. that was school bus. people are not happy down the line, that's an error by me. >> reporter: sorry, if you are going to invite the media out to protest a bus carrying pieg grant children. make sure it's actually carrying migrant children. >> reporter: the intense border battle is a lightning rod to both sides, kwasman wrote, i apologize for the confusion, that was my error. as for the camp kids on the bus the y said they're unfazed. for the time being, kwasman left his tweeting to political events. he said think before you tweet. >> thank you, president obama announced new sanctions against russia on wednesday.

they target major energy firms powerful financial institutions, the increased economic pressure is designed to end the insurgency in eastern ukraine. russian president vladmir putin says the latest round is not only hurting russian by person businesses. hey, check this woman who sent letters with eisen to the white house was sentenced to 18 years in prison. a federal judge gave shannon richardson the maximum sentence for smile i mailing three ricin-laced letters to president obama, former mayor michael bloomberg and a gun control group in 2013 and then blamed it on her estranged husband. a story about the man accused of breaking into sandra bullock's home. we incorrectly reported he is out on bail.

he is, in fact, in the los angeles county jail on more than $2 million bail. from the list of the next video, it won't be wrong until we are all played by robots. this is the newest version of the humanoid robot. take a look at the way it walks. it's kind of sneaking up on you. the robot can now run, though, about five-and-a-half miles an hour, about two miles faster tan previous models. improved hand exeterty, it can open a bottle and pour a drink, it's a good friend. it can kick a soccer ball. its still not eligible for the world cup. hi, nice to meet you, too. >> he seems like a super fun guy. opens drinks, plays soccer, kind of saunters. >> it's a little. >> first we want to show you

video coming out of central washington. almost 900 homes are being evacuated because of these wildfires that continue about waterbury state into oregon as well because of the heat and dry weather. that will continue for at least another 24 hours. in the mid-section over to the plains, we got a big, big problem. heavy thunderstorms, rain, however wind and flooding possible going on right now. in fact the town of value, i-35 is closed right now because of massive flooding. some areas pecked up four inches of rain in an hour and we're going to continue to see this heavy rain as this front just kind of mean ders across the area. we bought the the risk of strong storms from oklahoma all the way down into central texas rainfall apples will be very, very high, santa fe, little rock, flash flood watches and warnings, four

to five inches of rain in atlanta and central oklahoma. it spreads out to arkansas, lousiana, a lot of flooding. we will keep an eye on this for you. we will get to your local forecast coming up in the next 30 seconds. lease this 2014 ats for around $299 a month and make this the summer of style. ♪ thursday morning to you, i'm meteorologist christina loren. taking a live look here at mt. hamilton. beautiful start. sunol showing you the same clear sky. meanwhile, we have a little bit of moisture accumulating here on

the lens. you might find a little drizzle out there at the immediate coast. that fog is going to clear quickly and we're going to see a really comfortable finish to the day. 79 in the south bay, 64 in san francisco. east shore's at 72 degrees. we'll stay steady all the way through your weekend. and that's your latest wet. matt. >> al, thank you very much. the next step for army sergeant bowe bergdahl, in the coming weeks, an army investigator is expected to questionle about the circumstances that led to his disappearance and cap cure in 2009. he could face a court marshall or going awol. sergeant bergdahl retained a civilian lawyer and expert eugene fidel. good morning. >> good morning, matt. >> after so much fanfare, the president met with his parents, top officials were quoting saying they didn't think he

would face major punishment. then the criticism starts, the controversy starts. there is now a full fledged investigation. do you think the military is succumbing to public pressure on this? >> no, i really don't. obviously, there are a number of narratives competing for attention. part of it consmation on some people about the release anyone from guantonomo. there are people really invested in that issue. they would like to make sergeant bergdahl's case a punching bag because of that concern. >> you had read so much about the case before you met him. you now have the chance to sit down face-to-face with him. is he what you expected? >> i don't think i have a concept of what to expect. what i can say is my meeting with him in san antonio last woke was productive. i like him. for what it's worth, the chemistry is productive. you have to get along with your client. >> fellow soldiers have accused

him of desertion. as you know the army alleged it was incomplete. they seem to conclude, in fact, he did walk away from duty. there is this e-mail from sergeant bergdahl to his parents, i'm ashamed to be an american him the title of the u.s. soldier is just the lie of fools. the horror of america is disgusting. how do you defend a guy against his own words? >> we don't have all the facts yet. i know more than you know. i know more than anybody knows about what happened here. i am perfectly comfortable defending him. this is not the place to layout a strategy him maybe kenneth staal doing the investigation will go out. he has a big team. >> he's back on active document is he proud to be wearing the uniform of the u.s. military? is he proud to be serving his country? >> yes, i believe he s. he is

back to duty, non-com. >> is he going to stay in the military or looking to get out? >> i think he's ready for the next chapter. >> all right. thank you very much. >> ply pleasure. >> we will be following this story. let's go over to savannah. >> we have carson here the chatter about the natalie-jenna experiment. >> are you hashtag? >> no way. >> that's what they're up against today, jenna and natalie are out of their minds, where do you fare? we got the hashtag, there is not even a camera there. we have to hook up a gopro in there. there is the plunge. would you do it? i hashtag no way. hashtag no fear, matt, would you do that? >> yes. i would do that blindfolded. >> well, there is a plane leaving for denver if an hour.

>> i want to have a mic on me when i do. >> all right. coming up, bizarre few revelations at the break-in at the famed kennedy compound. how the suspect was able to sit down and have a meal with a kennedy family member according to version. a man is missing of scuba diving with sharks. one of the dangerous creatures responsible. first, this is "today" on nbc.

coming up, is 42 the new 20? >> plus the ice bucket challenge, who took me up on it? i

you're watching "today in the bay." a very good morning to you, 7:26 i'm laura garcia-cannon. police in stockton have identified the surviving suspect in yesterday's deadly bank robbery and shootout. they say 19-year-old jamie reynolds of stockton was arrested on homicide, kidnapping, robbery, and attempted murder charges. the investigation is also revealed the other two suspects who were killed by police were 30 and 27-year-old men and documented gang members. crime scene investigators are still on the scene. so far they have found three handguns and an assault rifle. a 53-year-old man is in custody in the men time accused of breaching security at sfo and posing as a security agent. the man reportedly got past the security check point in the

international terminal on tuesday and pretended to be a security screener. investigators say he was drunk when he directed women into a private screening area and patted them down. so far, he's only been charged with a public drunkenness but could face more serious charges including false imprisonment. let's look at the forecast christina loren, it's going to be nice. >> it is, coolest day of the week, temperatures only maxing out in the upper 70s to low 80s ian in the hot spots. you don't need a jacket. even though your instincts might tell you to grab one. that's what happens in the bay area for a while, mostly cloudy to start. you're still in the 60s. i want to show you la honda, work down the peninsula. beautiful start here, low clouds, meanwhile the low clouds are fading fast in the south bay and temperatures here today will be comfortable, 79 for us, peninsula 74, 65 in sfraebs, wine country's at 80 and here's mike and the drive. northbound 101, not the only one for the south bay.

this is it, 680 and 101, as we show you the maps, extends from here into sunnyville and mountain view. look at the slow drive for 101 and westbound 237 also. they merge, the con jenks point, earlier crash kicked that off. 280 slow downtown and up towards the 880 interchange and there's the ripple affect over through the area. also in directions northbound, there's a crash blocking one lane slowing from both directions, laura, back to you. we'll be back with another local news update in a half hour, see you then.

here we go. [ cheers and applause ] >> .

our temperatures are going to start to moderate as of today. we've got a beautiful day ahead, starting with a live look here overcast sky over san francisco. mostly sunny meanwhile over san jose and look at this, beautiful start down in santa cruz, very little low cloud cover here. nonetheless, temperatures are going to be perfect. a little bit below average, 79 in the south bay, 72 on the east shore, 64 in san francisco, even the hot spots only reaching into the low 80s for today. and as we get into that weekend, temperatures level off.

♪ shield...sneeze...swish. shield...sneeze...swish. ♪ ♪ this back to school, there's a new routine. ♪ ♪ grab a kleenex tissue, to help keep your hands clean. ♪ ♪ shield...sneeze...swish. ♪ shield...sneeze...swish. ♪ la...la....la...la... this back to school, start the year off right with kleenex tissues. ♪ they're thick and absorbent to help keep stuff off kids' hands. pick some kleenex tissues up today. i think i'm getting the hang of it. [ jay ] okay, now pick up the specially cured bacon! hit it with the brown sugar! now roll that beautiful bean footage! yes!

[ jay ] bush's baked beans are slow-cooked according to our secret family recipe for a big flavor. high score! you get to put your name on the wall of fame! [ beeping ] whoa! game over... aww, you're no fun. [ jay ] enjoy bush's baked beans. still made from our secret family recipe. [ jay ] enjoy bush's baked beans. (announcer) from the company that invented litter, comes litter re-invented. (woman) hey! toss me that litter! (announcer) tidy cats lightweight. all the strength, half the weight. we're back now at 7:43 with a scare in the skies over southern florida.3 c3 cielos de la florida, donde un thousands of people looked on. an investigation is under way after an unmanned drone nearly crashed into a helicopter. and this is, of course, reigniting the debate over drone regulations throughout the country. nbc's tom costello has much more

on this. tom, good morning to you. >> reporter: good morning. the helicopter was filming an early morning charity run in sunrise, florida, early morning, when the crew spotted an unidentified aircraft in its path. it was this drone moving its way and getting closer by the second. this is what the helicopter's pilot and cameraman spotted in may hovering in the pre-dawn sky. pilot paul barth says it was an unmanned drone with colorful lights on an apparent collision course with his helicopter. >> it came at us, it went right underneath us. if that drone had hit my tail rotor and taken me down, i would have come down on 2,000 people in the streets. >> reporter: disaster averted, barth followed the drone and his cameraman shot this video of its operator. his name is jeffrey civitano and he holds a commercial pilot's license. nbc station wtvj spoke with him by phone. >> my objective was to yield the right-of-way to him as a

full-size aircraft and to get back on the ground as quickly and safely as possible. >> reporter: both men contacted the faa. he says this sort of thing has happened before. the proof is this youtube video from a different drone of his helicopter on a separate occasion. >> drone technology and capabilities are both way ahead of the law. for example, privacy is a real issue with drones. drones are capable of doing many different types of surveillance. >> reporter: that can lead to confusion and confrontation. >> yeah, you want to take pictures? >> reporter: police say a teenager in connecticut was assaulted after his drone was spotted flying over beachgoers. a seattle woman got the surprise of her life last month when she saw a drone out the window of her 26th floor apartment. >> it was pretty scary. then i realized i had no clothes on. >> reporter: the operator of that drone apologized. he had been hired to snap pictures of real estate, one of a growing number of uses for the 7,500 small commercial drones the faa now estimates will be in use by 2018.

that number could grow. just last week, amazon sent a letter to the faa urging the agency to ease restrictions so amazon can further test its drone delivery system. congress has asked the faa to come up with new safety guidelines for civilian drones by next year. as for that near-collision in florida, the faa says it's investigating. amateur drones flown by a hobbyist are supposed to stay well below 400 feet. guys? >> tom, thank you very much. coming up, who took me up on doing this? we'll reveal the next person to take the ice bucket challenge. up next, a little throwback thursday. carson has some letters from camp in the orange room. we'll check in with him in just a bit. >> send cash. two medium cappuccinos! let's show 'em what a breakfast with whole grain fiber can do. one coffee with room, one large mocha latte, medium macchiato, a light hot chocolate hold the whip, two espressos. make one a double. she's full and focused. [ barista ] i have two cappuccinos, one coffee with room, one large mocha latte,

a medium macchiato, a light hot chocolate hold the whip, and two espressos -- one with a double shot. heh, heh. that's not the coffee talkin'. [ female announcer ] start your day with kellogg's frosted mini wheats cereal. with whole wheat goodness on one side and a hint of sweetness on the other, it's a delicious way to get the nutrition you want. to you... they're more than just a pet so protect them, with k9 advantix ll it's broad spectrum protection kills fleas, ticks and mosquitoes too. k9 advantix ll for the love of dog birdhouse plans. nacho pans. glass on floors. daily chores. for the little mishaps you feel use neosporin to help you heal. it kills germs so you heal four days faster. neosporin. use with band-aid brand bandages.

introducing new colgate® optic white® whiten & protect toothpaste. this shell is made of calcium that can absorb stains like teeth. brush one side with a regular whitening toothpaste and the other side with optic white®. it whitens deeper... and it can stay white! even after dipping it again, colgate®'s white seal technology helps prevent stains from coming back. for a whiter smile that stays white, new colgate® optic white whiten & protect.

carmax is the best place to start your car search.e, great for frank, who's quite particular... russian jazz funk? next to swedish hip hop. when he knows what he wants... - thank you. do you have himalayan toad lilies? spotted, or speckled? speckled. yes. he has to have it. a cubist still life of rye bread... sold. it's perfect. which is why we'll ship a canary yellow jeep with leather seats from dallas to burbank if it's the one frank wants.

carmax. start here. it is summertime. that it is summertime. that means a lot of kids are off to sleep-away camp. carson has letters to home on throwback thursday. letters would be a throwback, if not e-mails or texts. >> the old letters are great. we asked people on the facebook page to find the letters and send them in. here are some good one, guys. kelly sent this one in. "dear parents, i have been forced to write letters. otherwise, i can't have dinner. but otherwise i am having a good time." [ laughter ]. >> this is a great one. a little hard to read. "how are you? i want to go home now. i love you very much.

around dinner, i cry and miss you. please reply or come." this is the best part of this one from grayson, "these wet spots are my tears." grayson cried on the letter and sent it to mom and dad. >> that's horrible! >> jamie writes, "sorry i have not sent a letter yet. i think my other letter got lost in the mail. i miss you all so badly i could barf. not really barf. but i do miss you very much. stay strong, mom and dad." keep them coming. so much fun to read. if you've tweeted #orangeroom. speaking of twitter, the hashtag battle for the big pterodactyl run that jenna and natalie will take is at -- we don't have it up. 52 say no way, 48 say no fear. i would have no problem doing it. we'll see those girls take the plunge live in little bit. >> by the way, do you have any letters that start, "hello mudda, hello fadda." coming up in trending, why is there a backlash over one

men's magazine that claims 42 is the perfect age for women? are you as nervous as we are? we'll check back in with natalie and jenna who are about to get launched 100 miles an hour into a canyon. michael buble on the joys of fatherhood and taking his whole family, including the baby, on tour. major makeover let's do we got this and a whole lotta look what we did then let's sit back and enjoy the view. let's do this. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. for a limited time shop our newest vanities starting just one hundred eighty nine bucks of swedish experience in insidperfecting the rich,ars never bitter taste of gevalia. we do it all for this very experience. [woman] that's good. i know right?

gevalia. ♪ ♪ start a team. join a team. walk to end alzheimer's. visit alz.org/walk today. ♪he cadillac summer collection is here. ♪ during the cadillac summer's best event, lease this all new 2014 cts for around $459 a month or purchase with 0% apr and

make this the summer of style. crunchy cookie, chocolate, and caramel in a bite-size. an idea so simple, you're probably asking "why didn't we think of these years ago"? sir, i just got this great idea for twix... get out... ♪ get outta my dreams ♪ get into my car! barbra, this thing is amazing! they put billy ocean in a box! [ male announcer ] your favorite bars: bite-sized. introducing twix bites. [ male announcer ] your favorite bars: bite-sized. two phones got you too through? mcdonald's bacon clubhouse is a new breakthrough in break time. connect with one-of-a-kind big mac special sauce on 100% pure beef. a break this important both hands. are you about to spend that on paper towels? mom: well, i use bounty... kerri: ooo! use sparkle®... it's just right for cleaning up everyday little messes without cleaning out your piggy bank.

sparkle®. the bright way to clean. we're getting ready to take the ride of our lives.

good morning erin, 7:56, half hour we could find out whether prosecutors will file charges against the santa rosa mother accused of attacking a 12-year-old boy at school. the boy was allegedly bullied by the woman's daughter, or bullying the woman's daughter rather. delia garcia bratcher was arrested in may after investigators say she went top her young daughter's school during lunch, grabbed the boy by the throat. her attorney says she confronted him, but never touched. several children support that claim. private investigator say the boy choked himself. she'll be in court at 8:30. we'll have a reporter at the courthouse and have more information as soon as it's available to us. in the men time, let's check your -- meantime, let's check your weather. >> good morning, live look just a beautiful start here in lo los gatos. little bit of lingering cloud cover, it's going to fade fast.

meanwhile in tibarron, you're going to be stocked in with fog, we'll all see a beautiful, sunny finish to the day and comfortable temperatures. the east shore's at 72, 64 in san francisco, and even in the hot spots, just the low 80s for today. let's get right over to mike with a traffic alert. yeah christina, however, this is the camera over there off seaport boulevard. now look at this live shot. and you see they aring that overturned rig. closed two of your three lanes for eastbound seaport boulevard. now they scheduled it to be open at 7:30, clearly that's not yet the case, they are making good progress on that. we'll continue to track that. you can get by in one lane, that's to the east side. meanwhile, congestion as you get off the off-ramp, they're just south bay, dramatic slowing for 280, earlier crash and slowing towards mountain view as well. >> good stuff. thank you.

we'll have another local news update in a half hour.

. it's 8:00 on3 c3 today. a continuación, we'll show you how. plus, free falling. natalie and jenna bush hagar are set to be launched into a colorado canyon at nearly 100 miles an hour as "today" takes off. and the bubls hit the road. we'll talk to michael buble about music, family, and what it is like to take a 10-month-old on tour. >> he really likes this. ooh! >> today, thursday, july 17th,

2014. we're from texas. hey, y'all! >> up on the "today" show! >> hey, how's it going? >> hi! >> it's my 50th birthday. i love matt. >> we love al roker! ooh! >> woo hoo! >> welcome back to "today" on this great thursday morning. the weather is beautiful. the crowd is happy. the music is good. tamron picked a good one today for throwback thursday. >> like that. >> well played, miss tamron. >> absolutely. >> we're just moments away from the big jump. >> we've been talking about this ride all morning long. natalie and jenna out there in

colorado as part of "today takes off." we understand there may be a little mechanical issue. let's go to our ladies. what's going on? >> i know. if we could build the drama any more here. i got to tell you. i mean, the drama is certainly building and the tension as well because we've just been told in the last couple minutes there is a little bit of a sensor issue. so grant carrie is the general manager. what does this mean? >> the high humidity is affecting some of the very sensitive work that is in the computer so there is no problem with the ride. technically, there is no problem. it's just that there are about 50 sensors on the ride and all 50 have to talk to each other at one time. if they don't all talk, then it has a delay. so, in this case, we're just making sure that all the sensors talk together. >> yes. >> and there is no danger in the

ride, itself. it's just mechanical. and the engineers are here. they've created the ride from soaring eagle. there is really not a problem. it can even be manually run if we have to. >> so we're going to be safe. >> we're going to get to go. >> you're still going to get to go. >> it'll come back, right? >> it'll come back. >> you know what? we can go down and have a cup of coffee. >> that's right. come in the cave and we'll do a cave tour for that. >> i'm for that. i don't think we have to worry about it. obviously if there are any issues we will not do this. >> no. >> it looks like it's going to be fine. >> we're excited to do it. >> in the live shot. >> now we're terrified. >> we'll check back in, ladies. good luck with that. >> it'll work. >> i was going to say, okay. >> why do you say, technically there is no problem? >> no way. >> really trending. we'll check back and make sure it's all safe. >> something else we've been talking about all morning -- who took me up on the ice

bucket challenge? i took it on tuesday after being called out by my pal greg norman and i challenged three people to do it as well. brian williams, martha stewart, and howard stern. as we told you earlier, one of them has accepted. who was it? well, take a look. >> hi, matt. it's martha. i accept your challenge. what the heck. doesn't matter. pour a bucket of ice over my head. it's pretty cold, too. very cold. >> it is. >> and i challenge gwenyth paltrow. i challenge blake blithely and ellen degeneres. they have to do the same thing that i'm doing. i'm sure it'll be very stylish. here goes one, two, three.

>> okay. >> ooh! >> does that satisfy you, matt? >> well, yes, it does satisfy me, martha. well played there ms. stewart. a reminder, gwenyth paltrow, ellen degeneres, and we'll keep you posted on how they do. brian, howard, still waiting to hear from you. >> over to you guys. let's head over to tamron in for natalie this morning. good morning everyone. police are investigating a wild chase and shootout in northern california that left three people dead. officials in stockton say three men with assault rifles robbed a bank then took several people hostage. one of the hostages was thrown from a moving vehicle during a nearly hour-long pursuit. the chase ended with a shootout in a residential neighborhood. when it was over, one female hostage and two suspects were dead. no officers or bystanders were hurt.

israel and hamas were said to be making progress this morning toward a cease-fire in their two-week border war. however, israel said three mortars were fired from gaza during a five-hour humanitarian cease-fire today. hours before that truce, an israeli air strike destroyed a hamas leader's home and israel said it caught palestinian fighters who had tunneled under the border. this morning in texas, online donations for a family of six, gunned down last week, have reached almost $400,000. this as the sole survivor, a teenage girl, attended her family's funeral. nbc's gabe gutierrez has the story. >> reporter: six caskets, an overwhelming loss. at first you wouldn't know it from looking at 15-year-old cassi cassidy, the massacre's sole survivor. >> she is amazing. she is every bit as strong as she portrays herself to be. >> stay strong is this community's new motto, after a gunman who police say was

looking for his ex-wife broke into his former sister-in-law's house. along with her parents and four siblings, police say cassidy was shot execution style, but the bullet just grazed her. cameras weren't allowed inside the church, but reporters were invited. the mood was one not of sadness but of hope. 13-year-old brian gave great hugs. so did 9-year-old emily. 4-year-old zach loved music and chicken nuggets. his older sister, rebecca, was nervous zach would grow taller than she was. their dad, steven, was remembered as a committed family man. as for his wife, katy, she will forever be our mary poppins -- practically perfect in every way. >> they were a real family. they were human just like anybody else, but they tried every day to be better and taught their kids to be better. >> reporter: as mourners left the church, the girl who stayed so strong could not help but cry.

gabe gutierrez, nbc news, houston. breaking news for microsoft this morning the tech giant announcing it will eliminate up to 18,000 jobs over the next year. that number includes both factory and management positions. the cuts will come as microsoft absorbs the nokia device business it bought in april. in its e-mail to employees the ceo said the changes are needed to become more agile and move faster. more than 125 passengers and crew members from a stranded casino ship woke up on dry land this morning. they spent nearly a full day on the waves after the ship ran aground early wednesday off georgia. efforts to refloat the vessel failed, so the coast guard ferried everyone back to shore. the casino ship was on its maiden voyage. for the first time, a female athlete has qualified for the final round of american ninja warrior. mighty casey aced the obstacle course while seeming to barely break a sweat.

the five-foot tall, 100-pound former gymnast will now go up against men nearly twice her size at the finals. okay. i'm going to say it. girl power! go mighty casey. it is 8:08. let's get another check on the weather with al. >> oh, thanks so much, tamron. got a lot of fun folks hanging out. you want to wish your aunt chris good luck? >> yep. she is getting her first chemo treatment for pancreatic cancer on friday. >> god bless her. we'll say a prayer for her. thanks so much. let's show you what's happening as far as your weather. our pick city, kare nbc 11. fantastic weather right into the weekend. temperatures in the low 80s. and, unfortunately, it is not the same over dallas. heavy rain has been falling. if there is a silver lining, there is rain getting into where they need it in the drought areas. so that'll be good. but as you can see, the next 24 hours at least 4 to 5 inches of rain along the oklahoma/texas

border and you can see over the next two days it expands out into arkansas and northern mississippi as well. for today, the rest of the country, eastern seaboard, fantastic. gorgeous up into the plains. temperatures have finally started 8:10. happy thursday to you, as we round third, getting ready to hit home base. we've got a gorgeous finish to your week. and i can tell you, we had a hot, humid start. we're going to finish things off right. 65 degrees in san francisco. 74 for the peninsula, 82 in places like napa, you'll hit 80 in santa rosa for today. and oaktown, 72 degrees and that's it. and yeah, beautiful conditions, even out in the tri-valley, low 80s coming your way. as we get into the weekend, temperatures stay steady, we hit that sweet stride. and that's your latest weather. >> all right. al. thanks. coming up on "trending, what is patricia after a starbucks

barista gets their hands on your coffee cup? a hilarious new look at new names. >> creative stuff we might say. and the suspense is building in colorado. will natalie and jenna be able to take off as planned on the 200-foot plunge? we'll find out in a few moments. what is it like to take a 10-month-old on tour? we'll talk to michael buble about his music and his family. >> but first these messages. you can hide uneven skin tone from here. but what about here? [ female announcer ] neutrogena® visibly even daily moisturizer.

in 4 weeks, you'll see more even skin tone. even from here. [ female announcer ] neutrogena®. even from here. carmax is the best with a quick written offer, right on the spot. perfect for jeannine, who prefers not to have her time wasted. ...and time! thank you. your usual. she believes life's too short for inefficiencies. i now pronounce you husband and wife. no second should be squandered. which is why we make our appraisal process quick and easy, and why jeannine chooses to start here. carmax. start here. (coffee being poured into a cup.) ♪ save your coffee from the artificial stuff. switch to truvia. great tasting, zero-calorie sweetness from the stevia leaf. acidity was in my diet.much i was so focused on making good food choices,

i had no idea that it was damaging the enamel of my teeth. i wanted to fix it, i wanted to fix it right away. my dentist recommended pronamel. he said that pronamel can make my teeth stronger, that it was important, that that is something i could do each day to help protect the enamel of my teeth. pronamel is definitely helping me to lead the life that i want to live. ♪ [ yodeling plays ] worst morning ever. [ angelic music plays ] ♪ toaster strudel! best morning ever!

[ hans ] warm, flak gooey. toaster strudel! running here. running there. running into things. running out of things. making runs. running out of more things. making more runs. running to. running from. running around in circles. sometimes you like running. but wouldn't it be nice if you didn't always have to? introducing target subscriptions. free scheduled delivery of your favorite essentials. now running out no longer requires running out. tthe pleasure you crave bjust got real.leasure? light & fit greek nonfat yogurt. irresistible flavors, like toasted coconut vanilla, with a thick creamy texture. never have 80 calories tasted so satisfying.

light & fit greek. taste satisfaction without sacrifice. ♪ dannon hi, honey. how's the camping trip? well, kids had fun, but i think i slept on a rock. what are you doing? having coffee. ah, sounds good! i thought you'd say that. ah. ♪ the best part of wakin' up... ♪ you're the best! wake up to the mountain grown aroma of folgers. ♪ ... is folgers in your cup! let that phrase sit with you for a second. unlimited. as in, no limits on your hard-earned cash back. as in no more dealing with those rotating categories. the quicksilver card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase, every day. don't settle for anything less.

i'll keep asking. what's in your wallet? we're book at 8:16. a pterodactyl update now. we understand it is required they do two test runs of that attraction before we put natalie and jenna bush hager on it. they've completed one. they're about to do the second. we just use interns instead of jenna bush hager and natalie. we'll find out how that goes. it will be delayed a little bit. >> we're doing the safety check before we put the precious cargo on the tear dak tail. how could an article cheering 40-something women spark such a backlash? "esquire" magazine has a piece called "in praise of 42-year-old women." so good, so far. here is what he writes, let's

face it. there used to be something tragic about even the most beautiful 42-year-old woman. if she mained sexual she was either predatory or desperate. if she remained beautiful, what gave her beauty force was the fact it's fading. if she remained alone, well, then god help her. i tweeted this out but hadn't read the article. i was like, yay. >> i'm 43. savannah taught me a new word. i'm not going to say it. the 20-year-old me would have called them that. the 43-year-old me said, that's scary. >> the magazine says times have definitely changed pointing to sexy stars by cameron diaz, sophia very gar row and jennifer garner in. we would point to our own savannah and natalie. a lot of critics calling it sexist and outdated. others saying it's more about

con grgratulating men for findi them attractive. "esquire" magazine has no comment except to say the magazine is on sale right now. >> you always say something. >> hey, listen. the lesson here is before you tweet an article, you should tweet an article. that's the message. >> i read the headline and i was like, that sound good. >> you might want to avoid talking about school buses. today on today.com, a heartwarming letter every parent and child must see. an 11-year-old from the uk named charlie got the letter in the maim along with his standardized test scores. every student who took the test got the same letter. here is what members of the faculty wrote. these tests do not always assess all of what it is that makes each of you special and unique. >> the letter goes on to say

"the scores you let will tell you something, but they will not tell you everything." the letter ends reminding students there are many ways to be smart. charlie's mom allison says the letter they got brought her to tears. >> we love this. >> love it. >> great letter. have you ever visited a starbucks and give your name to the barista only to find something completely different scribbled on your cup. a whole blog devoted to it. ivillage gather add few. one customer gone olorn. she said her name was lauren. how about botchadra even though it was supposed to be patricia. look at this one. oh monica. problem is it is juanita. here is one for delaney. they went for kelly's friend. i had somebody write rock on

mine. a little confused. >> that's what's trending today. up next, would you know how to break into a car if you saw a child locked inside that hot vehicle? we'll be back in 30 seconds. we're back with the growing national conversation on how to prevent tragedy after the death of the child who was left inside a hot car in georgia. this morning nbc's kerry sanders is in shambly, georgia, with

what you can do to possibly help save a child's life. kerry, good morning. >> reporter: good morning. i have safety gear on from dekalb county fire and rescue. what we'll demonstrate is what you need is, how difficult it is to smash a window on a car. you're in a situation where you see a child. the easiest thing you can gather is a tire iron. you want to stand back a little bit so when it shatters it didn't get you. a gentle tap, didn't break, harder, doesn't break. even harder. one more time. what do you do if you find yourself in this situation? take a look. it can happen to anyone. a mother in katy, texas, accidentally locks herkies in the car along with her two children. onlookers quickly rush to help her, breaking a window, allowing the mom to pull her kids to safety. not every story has a happy ending.

on a hot day, a closed car can reach temperatures over 100 degrees in just 15 minutes. at 107 degrees children can die. so far this year at least 17 children have died in hot vehicles. according to kids and cars.org, and who it's happening to may surprise you. >> 90% of the time it's the best parents you could ever imagine. >> reporter: texas, florida, california and arizona lied the nation in the number of children who die in cars from heat stroke. the danger triggered a new good samaritan law in tennessee. it allows anyone to break into a locked hot car when they see a child alone and in trouble. but breaking a car window is not easy, even for professionals. the bottom line, they say, kids should never be left alone in a locked car on a hot day. >> we all need to be involved in making sure our children stay

safe. >> eric jackson is here from dekalb county fire rescue. the window in a car is five times stronger than the glass you have at home. it takes 15,000 pounds per square inch to break a window oovps. i go back like that. even that, it's not breaking. what am i doing wrong? >> you're hitting it in the wrong spot. if you hit it in the corner, that's the weakest part of the window. go ahead and take it. >> reporter: you explain to me, don't push the glass in, but go nand pull it out. >> if you keep pulling it, you pull out the entire window. now at this point you can reach in, open the door and get into the back seat and pull out the baby. >> reporter: question for you. i'm in a parking lot. i see a child and i say to my sefshlgs oh, my god, where is the mother, where is the father? they left the child in there. do i dial 911, immediately get a tire iron? >> you want to dial 911 and have

the fire department en route to that location so the firefighters considerable prepared to get the baby out. >> usually a three or four-minute response time. what if i see the child and i see the head is dropped over and this is an emergency. go ahead and break the window? >> go ahead and take the glass. >> reporter: you'll demonstrate aa piece of equipment that you carry. >> we have a spring-loaded center punch. this is something we can utilize to break the window. we go for the corner, the same thing, and we would do, in fact, the same thing with our glove. we use it to clear out the glass. as you see, we can take out the glass, reach in, pull the handle, open the door and go nand get the baby. >> reporter: in an emergency with a panic going, somebody might say let me grab the baby and pull it out. you still have glass here that can cut the child. once you get the door open, take a deep breath and move methodically. >> that's correct. >> reporter: i think it's useful

device. this device here, they sell these at automotive stores. they're popular not only in areas where it gets hot, but also in areas of this country where there is a lot of water. sometimes cars go in the water and people use this so they can actually punch the window out if they're inside the car and the car went in the water and they can't get the window or door open because of pressure. >> that's correct. there's another device that has the same effect that you can also buy to break that window out, to have the same effect as the spring-loaded center punch. >> reporter: eric, thank you for joining us and explaining it to us. useful advice. >> i had no idea that was the weak spot on a window. i would have tried to smash in the middle. >> i'm one-clicking the center punch on amazon. >> they have one that has a razor where if you're trapped, you can cut the seat belt. they're good to go with the pterodactyl. we'll get to that in the next half hour. first we'll take a look at these

messages from your local news. a very good morning to you. it is 8:26 right now. i'm laura garcia-cannon. we are learning more about the deadly bank robbery and shoot-out in stockton. stockton police say the suspects involved were members of the one of the most violent gangs in the city. we have a picture of 19-year-old hami ramos of stockton as well. he is the only surviving suspect. the other two were killed by police and have not been i.d.'d. there is that picture of ramos right there. investigators still don't -- day don't have a motive, but they say the suspect came armed for a fight to that bank. they were loaded with magazines, strapped to their bodies. investigators are still on the scene, collecting bullets and looking for crews. we have a crew in stockton. of course, we'll bring you more information when it's available to us.

sadly, a woman was held hostage and she was eventually killed as well. let's move on to the morning commute now with mike. >> all right, laura. we have our crew over there in redwood city, and all lanes are now open at c4 boulevard. that's better news. 101 in san jose, recovering a little with speeds. a very slow drive, it has been this morning for 101, up towards 237. things starting to move much better for all of your northbound routes through the south bay, including for mountain view, along the peninsula, an easy drive. dumbarton bridge, a little slower than you might like. >> thank you very much. another update in half an hour. see you then. wlp blp.

>> announcer: "today takes off" is brought to you by capital one. what's in your wallet? 8:30 now on a thursday morning, the 17th of july, 2014. and the moment is here. we're on "today takes off." this week it might be the most literal translation of that yet. we've got jenna and natalie out in colorado about to ride the pterodactyl, and it's all systems go. ladies, take it away. >> all right. well, here we go. we're ready, alex. go ahead, press that button.

>> oh, no. here we go. >> ahh! >> jenna is terrified. >> jenna's face. >> ah! >> i'm terrified. >> no, no! i want to hold your hand. i want to hold your hand. [ laughter ]. >> i love you mila. i love you. >> kids, we're okay. >> ready? >> there they go. >> it's slow. >> and now it releases. >> whoa! >> where are they? >> mommy! mommy! >> oh, my god. >> it's beautiful. >> hallelujah! [ laughter ].

>> this is absolutely terrifying. >> now they're just swinging 200 feet in that canyon. what we haven't told them one of the sensor issues does make it impossible for them to retract it. we'll see you next week, ladies. >> let's go again! let's go again! >> she's singing a different tune. >> jenna and natalie, can you hear us? >> yes. it's awesome. we love it. >> jenna, you seemed very calm and collected during that. how did it feel? >> i was terrified. >> she was shaking like a leaf. >> i wanted to hold natalie's hand. at the very end she tried to take it away from me. we're still holding hands. i'm just happy i didn't wet this little seat. >> it was awesome. >> by the way, jenna, you were screaming before you even moved an inch. let's see this one more time. >> savannah, have you ever been pushed into a canyon?

>> ah! ah! mommy! mommy! >> mommy! mommy! >> #mommy is trending right now. >> i love the "mommy." can you imagine the former first lady sitting at home. sorry, mrs. bush. >> mommy was our code word. >> it was for every expletive we should have been saying. >> it stands for a few other things that we don't say at 7:00 a.m. >> a new item on my bucket list. i want to go to universal with you. i want to ride all the rides with you. >> we did it. yay! hallelujah.

>> that's impressive. >> al, how about a check of the weather? >> that's impressive. it really is. let's show you what we have for you today. we are looking at plenty of sunshine in the east on saturday. wet weather through the gulf coast. also expecting a few showers in the pacific northwest. moving ahead towards the rest of your weekend sunday, rain in the upper ohio river valley, gulf coast into the great lakes. look for a beautiful day through the southwest on in to southern california. l.a. looking for sunny skies and 74 degrees. that's what's going on around the country. here is wh 8:34. taking a live look at los gatos. here we're talking about sunny skies and maybe 78 degrees. that's it. in the south bay, a beautiful day, 79 for us here in san jose. tiburon looking great. all this cloud cover is going to keep your temperatures nice and comfortable in the north bay this afternoon. up to about 75 degrees and that's it for the north bay. 79 in the south bay. 74 drivewegrees along the penin.

and yes, 65, comfortable day shaping up for you in the city by the bay with a building ocean breeze. beautiful evening temperatures ahead as well. so proud of jenna showing her daughter mila how to be strong and brave. >> how about natalie? she's totally zen. barely breaks a sweat. i'm impressed. pretty cool. >> still to come. a new look at love in the modern world. up next, how carson is getting kids to eat their fruits and vegetables. but first this is "today" on nbc. but first this is "today" on nbc.

for the freshest produce you want to be close to the people who are close to the land. that's why safeway works with over 150 local growers. the folks whose hands are in the soil. planting and nurturing the kind of delicious produce that gets delivered daily to safeway. so there's more local produce to love. like this week, locally grown g&s farms sweet corn is just 8 for $2.00. safeway, ingredients for life.

we're back at 8:37 with our "shine a light" series. it's a year long commitment to giving back. carson has helped build school gardens to help raise awareness about childhood hunger and obesity. carson, that's a good cause. >> yeah, it is.

and i teamed up with three adjoining schools in brooklyn. i told the kids if they'd help me build and take care of this garden, that i bet they'd actually start to like vegetables. it took a while, but i think i got them to realize it. >> i have a vision. right where i am, you know what i see? i see a beautiful apple tree. who likes apples? >> reporter: when i first sprung the idea of a garden on these brooklyn elementary school kids, the reactions were mixed. >> who is with me on that? >> he told us there is going to be a garden and everybody was just like, what? what are you talking about? >> reporter: to make a point in an earlier story, i filmed the kids enjoying piles of junk food and they were hooked. but a platter of harmless vegetables -- >> ready, voila -- look at this. >> reporter: -- was worse than cooties. you're not going to die. >> he said he would promise us that we would like vegetables at the end of the summer. i don't think it will happen.

>> reporter: as we spent the next few weeks building. this is an nbc news special report. here is matt lauer and savannah guthrie. good afternoon, good morning, everyone. matt lauer with savannah gut re. this is an nbc special report. the news we bring you today is a little difficult to track down and confirm, but we are getting a lot of reports, especially over social media and other sources that a plane has crashed somewhere near the ukraine, russia border. we are being told this is a malaysia air flight that started in amsterdam on its way to koala lumpur. >> apparently this happened somewhere near the ukrainian russian border in that air space. want to get to tom costello. as we said, multiple news

organizations report 295 souls on board. what's the latest you have been able to find out? >> reporter: this is malaysia flight 1-7, amsterdam to koala lumpur, a boeing 777 it has gone down. we are led to believe from reports from inter fax news agency from russia and the ap and reuters, gone down near the ukrainian russian border, of course an area that's been the scene of a great deal of military conflict. from are reports from interfax that the plane was shot 20 miles short of russian air space. nbc news has not been able to c confirm it. there are reports that it was shot short of russian air space. 280 passengers 280 passengers on board and 15 crew members, coming months

after a flight disappeared on a flight to china from koala lumpur, and the search still continues for that plane, believed to have gone missing somewhere in the south indian ocean off the coast of australia. they still haven't found any sign of that plane. but this is an unrelated incident, and again, a report that this plane missing and has gone down near the ukrainian, russian border, possibly shot down. >> a couple of things here. there have been reports on social media that there might be video circulating. amateur video of a plane on fire in that area. interesting report from sky news, and it says this, malaysia airlines confirms incident, tom, on board one of its flights. amid reports of a plane crash in ukraine. the wording on board one of its flights is what catches me. >> reporter: yeah, and we don't have any more than that. this just crossing, adviser to ukraine's interior minister, according to ap, says a

malaysian plane carrying 295 on board has been shot down over a town in the east of ukraine. this is coming from an adviser to ukraine's interior ministry using that language, shot down. of course, we don't have that independently ourselves. i have seen that video, i would tell you, that social media video. it looks like a very large explosion or fire. we have no way to know if that is, in fact, a plane burning and on fire, and have no idea what plane, if any is on fire in that video. >> tom, we are all digesting this together. here is an authoritative source. it would seem a tweet saying it has lost contact with mh 17 which originated from amsterdam. the last known position was over ukrainian air space, and the airline says more details will follow. >> we want to mention it is plus seven hours in that area now, coming up on 6:30 in the evening in ukraine. this would have been about a 12 hour flight from amsterdam to

koala lumpur, so somewhere about halfway through, maybe a little bit before halfway through that flight when whatever happened on board or to that flight did occur. let's bring in former investigator greg fife. good morning to you. what are you starting to hear and what can you put together from these pieces of information? >> based on what tom talked about, that is the initial information. right now, the faa and boeing are working to obtain additional information. boeing typically has service reps in the area, they'll be able to get some on the ground information. of course, the faa will be talking to their counter parts around the world, including malaysia airlines to see what in fact has occurred with the loss of contact with this airplane. >> greg, you are an aviation expert, not necessarily a military expert. when we're starting to hear reports this plane was possibly shot down, it would have been

traveling above 30,000 feet at this stage in its flight. what can you tell us based on that information? >> there's going to be coordination between the faa, our military, and all our military intelligence in that region because like you said, if it was at high altitude, it would have taken a high altitude or aircraft that could fire at high altitude, unless there was a ground based missile that was fired. again, satellite data will confirm that, intelligence will confirm that. then of course any kind of investigative activity that takes place will be looking for those tell tale signs of shoot down or explosion type event that will confirm or validate whether in fact this was a shoot down. >> we should mention this isn't happening just anywhere, apparently happening on that tense border between ukraine and russia. there have been reports of russian fighter jets, shoot downs happening in that area recently, so it is worth

bringing in michael lighter, nbc security analyst, he is on the phone with us. michael, as we very well know, we have sketchy details now. set the stage for us because this is happening in an extremely volatile area of the world. >> yeah, you're obviously right. there's been enormous amount of conflict there, including some surface to air missile fire taking down several ukrainian jets and some arguments from the ukrainian side that the recent take down of ukrainian military flight was from a surface to air missile on the russian side of the border. given the altitude of the plane, if this was, we have to stress if this was a surface to air missile, this almost certainly has to be a radar guided high altitude missile, the standard mobile infrared shoulder fired missiles generally wouldn't get to altitude of 30,000 plus feet, so it certainly is a possibility. there has been confusion in the past where civilian airliners

have been taken down when they're intense areas, most notably, of course, the u.s. shooting down an iranian passenger plane in the '80s in the persian gulf. >> michael, are you in a place where you can see ourík/$ pictur are you just in a place where you can hear us? >> just hear you, matt. i am on the way to the studio. >> for viewers, i want to tell people. we are going to run a piece of video, a youtube video, amateur video. i want to tell you now, we cannot confirm the reliability of this video, that this has something to do with this subject we are talking about, this loss of this aircraft, but this is that video that purports to be of the crash of this flight, malaysia air flight 17 somewhere inside ukraine, not far from the russian border. this is the video that's now making the rounds on social media. again, we cannot at nbc news independently confirm that this is authentic video. >> for what it is worth, all of the reports that are out there

suggesting it could have been shot down are coming from within ukraine. an adviser to the ukraine interior minister being cited by other journalists in the area, we have not confirmed that. as far as the official word, the best from malaysia air, they have lost contact with flight 17, which was on route from amsterdam to koala lumpur today. >> that brief report from sky news earlier, citing malaysia air officials saying they have reports of an incident on board one of their flights, don't know if that's lost in translation with a different language,k7 they meant something happened on the plane or something happened with one of the flights. to recap, we believe, we no independent confirmation of this, that malaysia air flight 17 has been involved in some major difficulty that is a 777 aircraft, possibly as many as 295 people on board, maybe 280 passengers.

15 members of crew. traveling today from amsterdam to koala lumpur. it has reportedly crashed somewhere about a third way through the flight. >> many reports are coming in it was possibly shot down. if so, it is assumed it would have been traveling at a height of something around 30,000 feet. do we still have tom costello, we can check in, see if he has been able to glean more. >> reporter: malaysia airlines says in a tweet, did lose contact with flight 17 it has lost contact with flight 17 reuters is out saying -- pardon me. reuters is saying they believe according to inter fax news agency that the plane was shot down by a buk ground missile, according to ukrainian interior ministry missile. a buk ground to air missile was common in the former soviet union as part of their arsenal. keep in mind, ukraine was part of the former soviet union.

we have no idea if this is in fact what happened. all we're doing is passing along reporting from interfax, via reuters and associated press and malaysia confirming they have lost contact with their flight over ukrainian air space, they say. >> any time you say lost contact with their flight, impossible to talk about this story without putting it in context of what happened march 8th of this year, malaysia flight 370 lost contact, that was a flight going from koala lumpur to beijing with 227 passengers on board, 12 crew members. no piece of debris from that plane has been found to this date. it disappeared without a trace. >> and absolutely no indication at this point that there's any relation to that incident, but of course, one can't help but think of that in light of today's events. let's get to greg fife, former ntsb investigator. greg, what are your thoughts as we just start digesting this information? we are getting little bits and pieces.

>> i think right now as michael talked about, there has to be some confirmation. this is going to change the complexion of the type of investigation that's conducted, whether it is a pure accident or intentional act. and that will dictate who will be the authority or the authorities that will be conducting the investigation. >> greg, can i ask you as someone that knows this type of aircraft, if in fact a ground to air missile were fired at a plane like this or aircraft like this, traveling at some 30,000 feet, would they have radar confirmation of that in the cockpit? might they have time to get off a radio distress call to someone on the ground? >> that's a good question, matt, only because if this was a shoot down with a missile, depending on how much destruction that missile caused, that would dictate whether or not the crew would be able to get a radio call off. >> would they have had

indication that missile was incoming? >> no, because the only system on the airplane, which is called p cast, interrogates transponders in the area. this wouldn't have that in the radar. >> not like a fighter jet we have seen in the movies, where they know something is targeting them. >> that's correct. >> and we have been putting up video of the flight tracker, the trajectory of the flight before it went down. greg, you speak fluent airlinese. do you think anything of the way they describe it as having lost contact with the plane, not saying more about it. do you think the airline is being cautious. >> i think they're being abundantly cautious, especially in light of what you just talked about with their previous malaysian flight. they don't want to start giving away information without having a factual basis for it because both the malaysians and the

malaysian government have been criticized in the past. i think they're going to pick their words very carefully as this information starts to come out and they can vet that information. >> as opposed to any kind of terror act as you have been talking about, it would seem this flight originates in the netherlands, heading to koala lumpur. if it is simply flying through ukrainian air space, it would seem as if it were targeted by some ground to air missile, it might just have been a tragic accident? >> one of the big things, matt, is whether or not the air space that they were in, we saw this years ago with a korean airline flight shot down because they strayed into restricted air space, so the question, of course, will be whether or not this airplane was on a proper flight path and did they get into some level of restricted air space and were mistakenly identified as a threat. >> do we still have mike lighter with us on the phone? >> i am.

>> mike, former counter terrorism center director in the obama administration, we heard again reports from tom costello, unconfirmed, it could have been what they call a buk launcher. obviously this is something that used to be used in the soviet union. when you hear that, does that give indication of what might have happened here? >> i think the location and the frequency of airplanes being targeted, not civilian airliners being targeted in the region can't but make investigators immediately look in that direction. we have talked about two instances where this has happened in the past, ka 007, shot over the so far yut union, and then the u.s. navy shooting down an iranian airliner. so these things have happened in the past. the location certainly makes you very concerned about that, and as we talked about in the previous malaysian airliner

mystery, the 777 is incredibly modern plane, flying in a very routine flight path. for it to fallout of the sky is not -- it is almost unheard of. so that's why i think as doug said, you start to look at the other possibilities of catastrophic events. >> again, we're just getting, to repeat this ap report, an adviser to ukraine's interior minister, something savannah mentioned the not long ago says a malaysian plane carrying up to 295 people has been shot down over a town in the eastern part of that country, he says on facebook page, flying at altitude about 32,000 feet. >> i think tom costello has more information. >> we are all trying to read what we can off the foreign sources, that same individual is also saying this was a missile fired by separatists. keep in mind there will be a lot

of information, misinformation, disinformation in the coming hours. there could very well be a blame game. initially, the ukrainian interior ministry blames it on separatists, saying a missile fired by them hit the plane at 33,000 feet, bringing down the boeing 777 as we said, a horrific sight in eastern ukraine, following four and a half months after malaysian flight 370 disappeared. malaysian airlines confirming it has lost contact with the plane over ukrainian territory. our information about the plane going down comes from the ukrainian interior ministry and interfax news agency out of russia. all reports suggesting at this point it was brought down by a missile, and the ukrainians blaming separatists at this point. >> tom, we have been showing the video of what seems to be a plume of smoke coming up from the ground.

to reiterate, although that's making the rounds, and people are saying it is directly associated with this crash, we have not independently confirmed what you see is a plume of smoke from flight 17. >> we have been hearing from ukrainian authorities. there's word we may hear from the president, poroshenko, soon. this is a place where there's a ton of conflict going on now. we have information and accusations, that's something we have to sort through in the coming moments. >> the imagery is starting to pile up. we have a second video, again, we have not independently confirmed it is authentic. here is another piece of video from a similar area, showing that plume of smoke beginning to rise from the ground. again, this is said to be the result of the crash of this flight, 17, malaysian a flight 17, a 777 that's been confirmed by malaysia air that has lost contact with the ground.

>> we turn to evan coleman with us now, an nbc terrorism expert that watches this area closely. evan, you of course are in the same position as all of us, trying to put this together. does anything stand out to you? >> well, i mean, so far the reports from russian media are citing it as being the act of a buk missile system, a medium range surface to air missile system, not something that terrorist groups use, it is a piece of military equipment. so whoever was operating this, they had access to serious military equipment. this is not what you see in iraq and elsewhere where people are operating shoulder fired surface to air missiles, taking shots at low flying aircraft. this is an aircraft that was flying at apparently 30,000 feet. so the chance of this being done by conventional terrorist group like al qaeda or something like that is almost nonexist tent. >> given what we know, evan, is

this something given that it is military equipment, not a rogue actor, does it sound like what people are presuming at the moment that it might be some kind of accident? >> it is hard to say. you think of the incident with the korean airliner in the 1980s. sometimes when there are tensions and missiles being fired, you know, civilian aircraft get too close, and things like this happen. but if you look at the fallout that happened in the soviet union after that tail spin incident, there's reason to believe it was the work of separatists. this is obviously extremely bad news for them. reflects poorly on the target selection they're doing. if you look at the past few days, there are a number of different missile attacks on ukrainian aircraft flying near that border. it is one thing i guess when it is a military target. when you talk about an international airliner, i would say that's bad news for the separatists that fired this

missile. >> evan, thank you very much. stand by. michael, stand by as well. jim miklaszewski at the penalty gone. >> reporter: officials are scrambling to find out just what happened here. they do point out, if the plane was shot down as the ukrainian defense ministry claims, it would have had to have been as evan coleman indicated a minute ago, it would have had to have been a military style weapon. and according to officials and documents we have here in our office, both the ukrainians and russians have the same kind of beuk surface to air missiles capable of bringing down an airliner. they don't know this yet. they're scrambling to work it out. >> don't go anywhere. we're going to take a quick break. some of you with stations across the country will be leaving us, others will continue with this special report. we will have more coverage on this situation throughout the day.

we are back with more of our special report, matt lauer with savannah guthrie, covering what appears to be the shooting down of a civilian passenger jet, malaysian air flight 17 on route from amsterdam to koala lumpur a short time ago, has apparently been shot down over eastern ukraine. >> we are having multiple reports from news organizations, people citing authorities inside ukraine suggesting it was shot down, perhaps by separatists. the pentagon is watching this closely. we go to jim miklaszewski. what are you hearing from sources about what they're making of the incident? >> reporter: they are scrambling to try to figure out exactly what happened.

given the fact that u.s. satellites have been watching the russian military movements on that border, one would assume that if there was a shoot down of the malaysian airliner, some of their surveillance satellites or assets would have been able to pick up that kind of activity. now, again as the ukrainian defense ministry is claiming, they say the malaysian airliner was shot down by a military buk, surface to air missile system. according to u.s. military officials and according to the documents we have here, both the ukrainian military and the russian military have these soviet era surface to air missiles that could be capable of shooting down an airliner. there is one other factor in all of this. there was a ukrainian military cargo plane that was shot down earlier this week, and it was unclear who may have shot that plane down.

but the latest indications from some of u.s. intel and military surveillance assets is that it appears now that that cargo plane, ukrainian military cargo plane shot down earlier this week, that that surface to air missile did come apparently from the russian side of the border. way too early to tell, first of all, if the plane was actually shot down in this case, the malaysian it is anybody's guess right now about who could have shot it down. there is plenty of these missiles on both sides of the border. >> when you talk about the border and the flight path, in earn ukraine, about to approach the russian border, it's hard to tell whether somebody on the russian side of that border saw the plane coming and got nervous that it posed a threat, or someone on the western side in

ukraine wanted to prevent something from happening over a sensitive area. we're being told it has gone down near the town of donesk. we don't want to talk in general terms, this area, what do we know specifically about that, michael? i'm sorry, we lost michael. evan, maybe you can take that? >> this area of ukraine in the earn part of ukraine near the down of donesk, do we know anything about that particular region? >> we know it is the center where the conflict is taking place. it's extremely active and it has been the epicenter of the fighting. so the fact that it was shot down over the area, it brings up the question of why it was flying overthat area to begin with. usually in cases of open

conflict like this, you would think that civilian airliners would give this a wide berth. so they were wondering why it was so close to here in the past few days. >> michael made it in here, you're disadvantaged because you're in transit there, but putting together what we no right now, you're helping us analyze fragments of information here. we know the flight pattern, we know where it was located at the time. where this missile was fired from either side of the border. >> we know the 777 is a very reliable type of aircraft. this area is kind of the main crucible right now of conflict

between the russian separatist. two military aircraft had been shot down earlier. >> that raises the question and you may be the wrong person to ask, but if it is the red-hot center of the conflict, wouldn't commercial airliners try to avoid it especially knowing in recent days there have been these kinds of incidents. >> when you have a conflict like this the international civil litigation authority can put a no fly area around that. i don't know if they did that in this case. it was flying at an altitude that would normally make it perfectly safe from any standard ground fire or anything like that. the report we heard about a missile battery being used, this is known as an as-11, a surface air missile system. this is good up to 65,000 feet. it's a fairly advanced system. this is the sort of weapon system that would be capable of

shooting down an aircraft at that high altitude. >> is there any advanced planning to a shoot down like this. these units are designed to be rapid reaction. if you have the system in place, it's on a mobile vehicle, you don't even need a visual. it's radar guided. and when you see a blip on a radar, you don't know what kind of a plane it is. that could quickly engage and be a possibility here. >> is not an area with a no fly zone. one would think that folks would be seeing commercial airlines all of the time in a heavily trafficked area. >> yes, and you never know the other incidents where this has happened, things like this happened with the soviet union there have is often areas of contract, they think it is

something military and tragedy follows. >> let's go back to com costello. and he covers aviation for us. the ukrainian prime minister is ordering an investigation into an airplane kas as catastr what he called it. you have parties with different interests. you can expect an international outcry overthis. the russians have seen, because of this news, their stock market fell and their kushsy has fallen all in the last couple of hours because of this news coming out of ukraine. i also make the point that in the case of malaysian flight 370 that was a flight of mostly chinese passengers.

in this case you're going from the netherlands to cokuala lump. we will see many different people who were transiting for work, family reasons, or what have you. the international outrage over this, i suspect, will grow as developments come in. >> we're talking about 295 people on board between this plane between passengers and crew. and you're looking at the video we have been thousands you. people wondering is it posble that anyone has survived this. there is a report saying after this malaysian airliner was shot by militants on thursday, all 295 people on board were killed. so they believe that someone has

gotten to the scene of this crash and now confirmed everyone on this plane has been lost. >> let's go to our white house correspondent, and we expect at a time like this that the president has been briefed on what has been discovered. >> reporter: white house officials will not confirm at this point that the president has been briefed, but i can tell you that his departure to delaware, where he was headed today, was delayed by about 15 minutes. i just heard from josh ernest that he will be speaking about it once air force one takes off. we anticipate that would happen momentarily. at this point you have to expect that president obama has been briefed but the white house not confirming that. this region has commanded a lot

administration just yesterday they announced a new sanction against russia for escalating the crisis in ukraine. this is a region that the administration has been focused on for past several months and this adds an entirely new dimension to the conflict there. officials paying very close attention and we anticipate we will hear something from josh earnest momentarily. he was leaving from the white house today asking him to comment on this situation. he ignored that question. >> just to be clear, he went on this trip to delaware. >> he did, it is a trip that will focus on the economy, but i would not be surprised at some point if we heard from the president about this situation. >> okay, kristin walker, thank you. i want to bring back greg. i want to ask you about

something that michael eluded to. when you have an aircraft at 32,000 or 35,000 feet. when you use a radar system for one of these missile systems, it's hard to tell if it's civilian or an aircraft that poses a threat. and looking at some reports here saying it would have been very difficult to make that mistake. does the signature of a 777 resemble the signature of a cargo plane? >> it depends on the type of cargo plane, matt. they could have the same profile, but when you talk about separatist firing at a dot on a radar screen, i don't think they're distinguishing if it is a cargo or a civilian plane. >> so they would not have the technology? >> not like the military. >> what advantage could be

gained by them shooting down a special airliner? they would have to know it looks different, and the trajectory looks different, but why would they do that? >> i flew in the navy pressing enemy air defenses and that was all about disrupting enemy surface to air missiles. and what you're looking at is a blip on the radar. you get altitude and air speed. there is no picture to look at. it is very easy for these guys if they're not well trained and coordinating with lots of other people on the ground to not know. it looks like a target coming into their air space. let's remember the u.s. had this happen as well. >> and just the context here is incredibly important. this is a red-hot center of conflict. there has been reports of cargo military planes being shot down. the president was informed, as we start to get information put

us in context here. there is differing agendas here, and there could be a lot of misinformation early on. >> absolutely you have confusion to begin with. really we're trying not to speculate, reporting what we hear, but we really don't know the facts yet, there is already confusion. add to that the very clear political agenda of the three parties. it is very -- it will be confusing and hard to get a full, complete, and contract picture. >> once again malaysian airlines once again thrust into the headlines. now this incident with malaysian air flight 17. kristin, we understand the mt. has been briefed? >> that's right, josh earnest just started his gaggle with reporters, his briefing with reporters on air force one and they said that president obama

has been briefed on the situation with the malaysian airline flight. the president is not in a position right now to confirm any of the details coming in. but according to josh ernest, the president directed his staff to be in immediate and close contact with senior ukrainian officials. they will be going on behind the scenes at the white house as the administration continues to monitor these breaking developments out of the ukraine. president obama was briefed and we anticipate that we will be getting more information from josh ernest who just started his conversation with reporters on air force one so we anticipate there will be more information coming out of that. >> kristin welker, thank you very much. and the prime men ster according to keir simmons says he was shocked by reports. >> a couple points, let's talk

about this boeing 777. we believe this is a 200 series. it went into service in the late '90s. 19956-1997. we mentioned there was 295 passengers and crew members on board. bowing is only saying "we're aware of media reports of a downed plane and we're gathering more information." this will be another unusual situation for bowieing. if it was brought down by military action there will probably not be an investigation for them into it. we believe it went to the south indian ocean and as a result of that plane missing boeing doesn't have anything to go on in that case either.

this is one of the safest big body airplanes in the world. prior to 2013, there was no fatal incidents at all. then in 2013 we had the asiana flight crash. boeing suggesting their aware of it and they don't have anything else at the moment. >> and to that point you made, the range of this airplane, it was just a few hours into a very long 12 hour flight and it would have been carrying an awful lot of fuel. you can only imagine the catastrophic results of a missile hitting a plane at 32,000 feet for that kind of fuel load on board. >> that would account for the black smoke if that is indeed video of the crash. it would be the result of a fuel fire.

i want to add that our pete williams is saying that the tsa is saying we simply don't know enough information about what happened in the ukraine yet to make any judgment about if u.s. airline oerpperations could be affected. this seems to be strictly a foreign case of military action. >> we're relying a lot of foreign news organizations right now. there is a reporter for reuters who says he is there. because of the conflict in this region, this is a closely watched area by u.s. officials. >> that is absolutely right. for several months now the u.s. has had surveillance assets on this area. they watch the rebuild of of russian resources on the border.

one could assume that the u.s. would be able to determine if there was a missile fired and if, in fact, that brought it down and where it came from. at this point, they don't know. >> how long might that take? >> it could be, you know the analysis sometimes takes a long time, it is impossible to say precisely. but it shouldn't be very long. if, in fact they can narrow down the time frame, which they have when this plane went down, and go to their surveillance data they have, which may or may not be able to indicate if a missile was fired and where it came from. moments ago we were told by senior d.o.d. officials that it's not clear yet that the plane was shot down. they're pursuing that as a likely option, but they're not sure. again a reminder u.s. officials here report there is no indication so far that

separatist that have been crossing the border or working inside the you crane even possess those kinds of surface to air missiles. they know the ukrainian military also has these surface to air missiles that could take down an airliner. and the russian military, not clear of their position right on the border, but they would also have that capability. a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of speculation. the one claim made by the ukrainians as a separatist could have shot it down. it doesn't appear likely for the moment. was it the ukrainian military responding to a threat they thought was from russia, or was it the russian military responding to what they thought was a threat from ukraine. all questions remain to be answered and people are digging hard to try to figure it out here at the pentagon.

>> if we have information that this aircraft was brought down by a missile, you have to leave all other possibilities open. if could have been a catastrophic error, it could have been a terrorist on board the plane, we have no indication, but that one piece of information coming earlier saying there was an incident on board the plane. it could be just wording, but until we have confirmation that this is the result of a firing of a missile we have to keep all avenues open. savanna, we are learning more, josh ernest is continuing his report. he just told reporters that president obama spoke with russian president vladimir putin earlier today. however he would not confirm that the two leaders discussed the downed plane.

we know to recap that president obama has been briefed about the reports of the downed plane, and the white house says they can't confirm those reports. president obama directing his national security team to be in contact with top officials in the ukraine so they can get the latest information and help in any way possible. so he said that president obama spoke with vladimir putin, and it's not surprising. president obama mentioned yesterday the stiffest sanctions yet for russian for ramping up the issues in ukraine. they have been calling to deescalate that military crisis for some months now. it has not happened so yesterday president obama announcing a new round of sanctions. so we're not surprised that they reached out to vladimir pugh ti.

but the organization monitoring the situation, and we think we will continue to get more information from them. president obama was going to delaware to talk about the economy, but this changes that event and the contours of it. so the question now will we hear from president obama today or in the next 24 hours? >> of course, the white house wants a better grip on the information as all of us do before the president speaks. our colleagues saying that the ukrainian president saying the armed forces of ukraine did not take any action today against any airborne targets. it might be worth doing a pause here and doing a primmer for everybody here. >> yes, this goes back more than six months now when the previously supported russian government in ukraine was forced

out by broad protests, the russians would consider it a coups. that led to the russian incursion into the crimea, south of the area why this plane was shot down. that lead to ukraineian push back against other parts of ethnically russian ukrainians. and in the past three or four months there has been serious conflict between the ukraiye uk russians. and they are pushing back and trying to get them to push back. >> and there is a question of them saying we're not manipulating, what's happening there, and secreting conceptism in u.s. officials. >> we had the map up just a second ago and the flight path of malaysia air flight 17.

we're told it hat not yet crossed into russian air space. it appears to be a cat troughic crash site with a plume of smoke coming up in the distance. and some officials have gotten close to this site and confirmed burning wreckage and the siting of bodies. i wonder how long it will be before video of the crash sight makes it's way to social media and the internet. two separate pieces of video, that person with a large plume of spoke. the second one there with it just over the tree tops. at the pentagon, jim, anything else you can add? >> no, people are trying to figure it out. they do say that a trained russian military would be up likely to fire blindly at a plane at 30,000 feet when they

would be an unlikely way that the ukrainians would respond to any military threats from russia. however, when you're dealing with militaries in a situation like this, they do acknowledge that anything could happen. but at this point, what they do know is it's not believed that the ukrainian separatist have that kind of surface to air missile in their possession. the ukrainians do, but as we heard a moment ago, the ukrainian president denies that his military took any action against any airborne targets. if you eliminate those two, and they have not here, but if you eliminate them, the most likely if the plane was shot down would be russian. what is most intrigues is the response to the malaysians that

say there was a report from the plane that there was an incident on board. it's unclear what that meant, but could that have been a terrorist attack on the plane itself? >> they say it's unlikely that a trained russian military would shoot down this plane, but because of this incredible tension in the region in the previous months, nothing is out of the question in terms of mistakes occurring. >> just to look at the players in the region, you have three possible suspects. what we have been reporting and confirmed is that with regard to this particular surface to air missile launcher, it's just the soviets and the ukrainians that would have access to the machinery. >> yes, but lots of russian military hardware has made it's

way to the separatists. we have assessed it quite frequently and now that they don't have it, but it is always possible. and where the plane crashed does not tell you where it may have come from. it has a significant range. >> it won't surprise anyone that according to some reports the separatist are blaming the ukrainian government. >> let's go to tom costello again, tom, new information? >> we have been checking on u.s. airlines. which u.s. airlines fly that rout. i have myself on klm going from amsterdam to dubai. they say they do not fly in that air space. we're checking with the other ones and when we get that we'll pass that along. it is not commonly flown, it's likely to be the international airlines. also i found this important and interesting. you may recall the face of

malaysian flight 370 from the malaysian side. he appeared regularly at those news conferences out of kuala lumpur. his words coming out of the m . malaysian defense minister. but again as we have been reporting this is a big plane, the 777. a standard, long-haul airline flown around the world. if you're talking about the big haul, it's the 777, and on the air bus tide you have the a-380 and a-330. we are looking at the possibility of 295 people on this plane going down on the ukrainian russian boarder er e border in a very remote area. and probably investigative resources as well, guys?

>> we are collecting a rot of difference information. a lot of it coming from other news organizations in the region. let's focus on what we know officially. one is that they say they lost contact with the flight over ukraine, and the defense minister saying there is no confirmation that the plane was shot down. as we cover this news this morning, it's good to know what happen happened. it is an incredibly tense region of the world where there is an abundance of military equipment and there has been as recent as this week incidents of planes trading fire or missiles, so there is a lot for us to learn, of course. >> no question about it, we appreciate michael staying by with us. we're going to be staying with tom costello, and we have our former ntsb investigator, you're beginning to piece together some of this, anything else you want to add to this?

>> yes, some of the sources that i have been talking to just gave me new information that the airliner was at 33,000 feet and checked in with u craneian aircraft control. >> one second, we this is an nbc news special report. there has been loss of contact with a flight in eastern ukraine. >> the airliner checked in at 33,000 feet with ukrainian air traffic controllers, and it has not been verified, but this is what i'm getting from pretty credible sources. and the aircraft, as it went over ukraine, went to no radio contact for a very long period of time. that may have some coincidence, or coincide with possibly the cryptic report from malaysian

airlines that there was an event on board that may have prevented the flight crew from making normal radio calls or responding to air traffic controllers. so this possibility stays open that something on board could have taken place that resulted -- >> let's go over this one more time. you're saying the plane flying, leaving amsterdam, gets to a cruising altitude of 33,000 feet. checks in and somewhere over eastern ukraine goes into radio silence and that's not a normal proceed, correct? >> no, that is not normal especially if the ukrainians were tries to make contact for position reports and things like that and they were not getting a response from the flight crew. the fact that the malaysian airline folks that put out a statement saying they have information, or eluded to in their press release that there may have been an event on board,

this may have some relationship to the fact that the crew may not have been making normal radio call or responses. >> okay, greg, i want you to keep working your leads. >> what we hear from malaysian airlines is critical at this point? flight aware.com. we rely on it at nbc news for very accurate information on where planes are, what their altitudes are, and they have a good track record. they're tells us this plane left at 12:14. it tooblg off at 12:30 p.m. for an estimated landing about 5:50 a.m. local time. they're saying their last position was at about 9:20 a.m.

eastern time just west of the eastern ukrainian border and it was cruising at 33,000 feet. we need to up date, but they are approaching the russian border on the right there. imagine coming into the yellow, and just as it approaching the russian border, that's where it shows the flight ending just prior to that russian border on the right. >> tom, with that, not knowing every flight path out there, is that a logical trajectory for this plane that's leaving amsterdam -- >> yes. i think that's logical, and i reason i think it makes sense is the earlier flight path that we had, and this is part of the world where you have a lot of gaps and flight paths because the reporting is not as good.

the original flight path had it ending over western ukraine as opposed to eastern ukraine. so now they're saying the plane has gone down in the eastern portion. >> something that we talked to mic about earlier, are you aware of any restrictions over the air space in this area because it subpoena such a hot bed of conflict right now? >> i'm not aware and we need to do some reporting on that. >> okay, thank you very much, i know you will continue to stand by. -- contact with the ground authorities somewhere after reaching an altitude of 33,000 feet. it wept into no radio contact for a long period of time. we know as it approached the

border between eastern ukraine and russia, it went down. we're looking at video right now shot in the area. you see a huge plume of smoke there, we don't have confirmation that is coming from flight 17. we have report that's officials made their way to the scene and they have seen burning wreckage and bodies on the ground. 295 people on board this flight. 280 passengers, 15 members of the crew for a 12-hour flight from amsterdam to kuala lumpur. >> and they're now saying they received their notification they lost contact with flight 17, which i think confirms what greg's sources are telling him. we have this perplexes statement from malaysian airlines about an incident on the plane. we don't know if that is a term of art, if it's lost in

translation, we don't know how much significance we can attach to that. >> we still have no confirmation that a missile was fired at this plane. earlier reports from ukraine said it was shot down by a b.u.k. or missile. you have to look at the other scenarios. there was a mechanical failure. catastrophic failure, or that someone on the plane may have done something of a terrorist nature on that flight in midair. >> u.s. officials are watching this very closely including president obama who i believe just landed in delaware for a previously scheduled trip. let's go to kristin welker. >> just to recap what we know, president obama touched down in delaware. he has an event later on today. on the trip over on air force one, white house press secretary

josh ernest briefed reporters saying that president obama has been briefed on reports of that downed malaysian airline flight. but that the white house is not in a position right now to confirm any of the details. we know that president obama directed his top officials to be in contact with senior ukrainian officials as they continue to monitor the situation. we know that president obama spoke with russian president vladimir putin today about the sanctions that the united states broughai of this downed airline. it is a question of timing and it's unclear when specifically that phone calm took place. we know that president obama is monitoring this crisis quite closely and he is scheduled to

talk about the economy, about infrastructure later today. they say at this point there is no plans for president obama to speak about the downed plane. as you know savanna, the white house is incredibly cautious before they put president obama out to speak. when there is a breaking news situation the president likes to have all of the facts before he addresses the nation. that is part of the calculation. at this point in time, no plans for president obama to address this while he is in delaware. that could change. this is a developing situation they are monitoring quite closely. >> we thank you for that and we will check back in as we go along here. >> let me add something, this plane could have been shot down, there could have been a cat troughic mechanical failure, or activity on board of a terrorist nature. there would also have been activity having nothing to do

with terrorism, but if it were a terrorist act, would it be likely to have a claim of responsibility at this time? >> not so soon, and i tend to -- it's very early in this. i don't see anything in this profile of this flight that would make it a lightly target for terrorists. amsterdam is a very, very secure aircraft. they have problems in the past and they're very protective. it could not normally be targeted. >> we're keeping all options open. what we're looking at here is another piece of video. the third piece that we have seen come into the news room. what we see confirmed is a big thick cloud of black smoke which is consistent with what we heard about an explosion and burning on the ground. and we're working our level best to try to get these videos confirmed to get our own reporter there is as fast as we can. that appears to be the scene in eastern ukraine.

and involved to some extent, and perhaps no accident that this is where this is taking place today. >> and that website we jus put up there a second ago, tom costello mentioned it, we rely on it to track commercial flights around the world. you see the line on the upper left-hand corner of the screen. it takes off in amsterdam, and that flight ends right at the border between ukraine and russia. >> this would have been a long flight, according to malaysian air it took off at 12:15 local time and it was due to land at 6:10 local time in malaysia. here is a plane that we're told is flying at 33,000 feet. not the typical moment that planes run into trouble. it's generally on take off and landing that there is the most danger presented. so that just adds to the mystery this afternoon as we move into the afternoon on the east coast for what exactly happened here. >> as tom mentioned you're

looking at that thick black smoke. this is a plane about a couple hours into a 12-hour flight. a heavy load of fuel. you're seeing that fire still burning. i don't know how long ago these images were shot, but they're working to get to that scene. >> our aviation producer says that the f.a.a. in april prohibited u.s. airlines from flying in this area. it has nothing to do with what we're talking about here, but there are some civil authorities that thought this was not a safe area for commercial airliners to fly through. >> we're covering this crash of malaysian flight 17. it is about an hour and a half now since the plane went down on the border. still many, many more questions

than answers. still no confirmation of what scenario took place to bring the plane down. she a decorated military man and a consultant here. jack, you have been listening in, what are your thoughts? >> it is going over an area that is hotly contested with lots of armed people on the ground. and they have the capability to shoot down that this altitude. there is a couple interesting things here. the first is that every aircraft carries a beacon that identifies it. so it's easy to identify that it is a civilian aircraft. indeed, what flight it is, for anyone on the ground who otherwise, or in the air, might shoot it down.

it is unlikely that either side would do this. the pointy edge of the spear, at the bottom of the food chain where you have relatively low ranking people making snap decisions on what to do it is entirely possible that a missile could have been fired at this target even though it was clear that it's not a military target. we don't know what the russians, i certainly don't know the rules of engagement, but they're probably pretty strict given the fact that civilian aircraft fly over this terrain. it is interesting, as we mentioned, the communication from the aircraft that said there was a problem. it is possible that it could have been hit by something, a missile, that didn't disable it completely, and that was the problem. but it is very, very difficult to envision how either tide with

these kinds of weapons would release the weapon to shoot down a civilian aircraft. it has happened before, but it's unlikely. >> jack jacobs, stay with us if you could. imagine the scene at the airport in kuala lumpur right now as relatives of those who had family on friends on that flight, and they're getting reports that the plane has gone down and we're hearing there are no survivors. people are looking for answers and separadesperate to find out happened to their loved ones. so just a scene of heartbreak in kuala lumpur right now. >> yeah, the human toll is devastating.

15 crew members and we await official word for what the fate may be. let's go to jim, are you learned any more? can you shed any more light? >> it's a complete mystery here at the pentagon and there is a certain level of frustration among some military and other intelligence officials. that there are so many possibilities involved in this that nobody is going to jump to any early conclusions. secretary of defense chuck hagel has been briefed on what the u.s. knows, which apparently isn't much. the one thing they do know is that when a ukrainian military cargo plane was shot down on ukrainian soil this week on monday, all indications now according to the intelligence and surveillance they have keeping an eye on that hot border. all indications saying it was

shot down by a surface air missile lunches from the russian side. no one will jump to the conclusion yet that the russians shot down this airplane. the search goes on, like i said, they have surveillance assets over that area because of the tensions on the border there. recent new build up. so at some point one would think they would have the kind of intelligence or surveillance t assets, that could help unravel this mystery. right now as far as the pentagon is concerns, that's exactly what it is, they emphasize they had no indication of how it was shot down. >> are you saying the u.s. put more surveillance and intelligence and resources into that area in the last several months because of the conflict there? >> and they were keeping an eye on the recent build up of the russian military forces on the border there.

so one would think -- are those assets, michael lighter would know better than i, are those assets locked on that border area 24/7? who knows. there were some intelligence assets keeping an eye on that border for some period of time and watched as the russian military crew and watched as the russian military began to reinforce. they estimate now there are some 10,000 russian troops along the border, and an unknown number of russian backed separatist in ukraine itself. nobody believes at this point that the ukrainian separatist working with the russians did have the capability, those same missiles, in their possession. >> jim at the pentagon. we mentioned michael lighter. >> tom costello has been working and monitoring some of these

international organizations. i'm intrigued, tom, that it was from the ukrainian air traffic control that it lost routine radio contact with the plane, what do you make of that? >> that would stand to reason. there will be caps in communication within you're on these massive long-haul flights. so it's possible they may not respond to a message from base, and not necessarily is kuala lumpur talking to a flight on a routine flight. but when an air traffic control facility loses contact they will alert the home base as quickly as possible. on the cable side, you reported there was an f.a.a. notice out in april which essentially prohibits u.s. carriers from flying into that region or over that region because of the

continued conflict in the crimea and ukraine and russia, but in addition to that, we have now just learned that the german airliner decided to stop flying in that area as well. i suspect that you're going to see all of the major airline liners making this announcement in very short order that they will avoid this transit point as much as possible. they will probably, very quickly, decide they will reroute. >> you're assuming they're taking that action and they're assuming this plane was shot down. >> i don't think they can do anything else at this point. when you have such widespread reporting they have to take the safest route.

>> and there is no place where it declares where they can travel. is it an airline by airline or country by country decision? >> i'm not sure who covers the air space over that part of the world. if it was the united states it's f.a.a., in europe it's euro control. i can't give you specifics for that area. it's up to airlines sometimes to decide if they will avoid a route. sometimes they make these decisions based on economics. what's the fastest route to burn the most fuel. and you will probably see these airlines in short order decide to avoid it. >> again, i want to say there is absolutely no evidence of connection between this and malaysian flight 370 that disappeared on march 8th of this year, but another heartbreaking

episode for this airline. they had people from 14 different countries and they flight was going from kuala lumpur to beijing when it lost all radio contact after taking off, and no wreckage has been found after it's disappearance. >>. >> they are hearing word that the plane has gone down, but they don't know how it went down. chuck hagel has been briefed on it, and our pentagon correspondent has been watching. hopefully they will find out in short order what may have transpired.

>> we always talk about the possible scenarios. what could have happened that could have brought the plane down. but it is important, as you just said, to stop and recognize this is a catastrophe. you have 280 passengers and 15 crew members all with stories. what was taking them on that trip from amsterdam to kuala lumpur. were they traveling with family members or as individuals. >> we are getting a lot of images and tweets are coming in. we can't say it enough. we're doing our level best to try to es information from the most official sources. this appears to be a tweet. can you see -- >> this is a photo from reuters. it appears to be much closer, at the scene of the accident. but i think i can see portions of wreckage in the background

there, although i don't see -- i guess in the upper left hand corner there, that is smoke still rising from the wreckage site. but these images will start to filter into us. this is the force that we have from the scene of the kracrash. >> yes, one reporter said he was at the scene and he is seeing bodies on the ground. here is more footage that came in, it is thick, black smoke. none of them confirmed, showing something of a similar scene. this is rising up in eastern ukraine. >> so if we can go back to that still photo, we can go back to the and of the crash. and we can look at it and pick things out. if you can put that back out, let's go to tom costello as we're waiting on that. >> i would just make a couple

points about the boeing 777. this is one of the safest planes in the world. the leading theory is that malaysian flight 370 was intentionally flown into the ocean. this has a remarkable safety record. it is very, very, very rare to have an incident at altitude at 30,000 or 33,000 feet. very rare. most incidents occur on landing or talk you have. second of all, the 777 has so many redundant computer systems to keep them in the air, if they lost power or an engine, a propeller drops out of the back of the tail of the triple 7 and regenerates electricity to control the flight controls.

even, according to a 777 pilot i spoke to, it can defend against bad pilots. that's one of the reasons why you have so many people saying if you have people on the ground saying this could have been a missile, this is a plane that simply just doesn't crash on it's own at altitude. >> if in fact this plane or aircraft was struck by a missile, would it have broken apart in the air on the way down from 33,000 feet, and might you have a much wider debris field? >> it all depends on where the missile struck and what it took out. looking at that image, it would appear that there was fuel still on board, because you have a deep black burning smoke. but as to the trajectory of the plane and what the missile may or may not have taken out, i can't speak to that. >> tom costello covering this

with us for the last few hours. this is a report from reuters. i think if you look closely you can make out what could be airplane reckage right there. >> you see very recognizable rivet lines. >> a wheel there in the background. we continue to follow this and there is a lot of images coming in now from the area. that is to be expected. we have video of the thick black plume of smoke. it's malaysian air 17 that has gone down. it left amsterdam about noon, local time there, was expected to land in kuala lumpur at 6:00 local time. high in altitude. it was considered to be at a safe cruising attitude but flying over one of the most volatile areas of the world right now.

a few days ago between russian separatist, the ukrainian government, there is also, of course, suspicion and skepticism about how much involvement the russian government has with regard to the separatist movement, and the white house is watching this closely and the pentagon is watching this closely. >> and as you just mentioned, the situation and attention between russian and ukraine and the separatist, in the initial fazes of the coverage of this, we're going to hear things from all of those sides to distance themselves from any responsibility. they will be pointing the fingers at the other side and it will be hard for us and journalists around the world to short through what is the sprin from each side and get to the truth. >> and we have seen that and the ukrainian government saying it has nothing to do with this. we have seen the separatist who oppose that government saying it was the ukrainian government. the reporting that we have from

our reporters at the pentagon, there really are, of all of the entities at play here, two would possibly have the launching hardware, serious military hardware. so they still have access to this type of material and the ukrainian government. >> i'm being told we have more images coming in of the scene, is that correct? yes, there is a piece of wreckage in a residential community. that would indicate that plane broke apart in the air because that looks to be part of the wing. it has the rounded support systems, but that has fall nn an area far away from where the fire is burning. you don't see smoke in that image. there is a first responder on

the scene trying to bounce the flames. >> what you don't get a sense of is how wide of a debris feed we may be talking about. there again is the other image we got that is from reuters that said they have a reporter in the area and they have footage of as this. they're at at our aviation to ot happens.

>> the imagery that we have been seeing on the air, and that is what appear to be pieces of what is fearing, may lay shan airlines flight 17. a lot of social media now bubbling up with a lot of the same pictures, most have been showing a smoke trail already on the ground. and now, of course, the conflicting reports. about what might have brought this aircraft down. it was intentional, was it a case of mistaken identity. tom costello for malaysian airlines. this has been such an awful period in the life of this carrier. and this was supposed to be a relatively routine long-haul flight for another their 777s. it's and half we have been saying, most

experts now believe that was the case of an intentional deviation on that flight. someone saying they will reroute the plane. no evidence that the plane ended up in the south indian ocean. and they're saying that could take decades. now we have a completely separate and unrelated incident. and in this heavy military area. thereporters on the scene are saying it looks like the debris field is spread over an area of nine milesdiameter. area. this in as

relatively normal and typical flight, customary flight from amsterdam into asia. brian? >> tom, some of the media pictures that, again, unverifi d unverified, popping up, show the flag. they show kind of identifiable, discernible parts of the fuselage. you can see the ever-present insulation, if you put those pieces together it would certainly point to a malaysian 777. >> yes. i mean, and the tragedy of this, obviously, for those people onboard, horrendous and their families, and was "discussed earlier, it is highly likely this is a fly representing many different nationalities on the

flight going from kuala lumpur to beijing, mostly chinese passengers. this case, likely to have many different nationalities of europe represented as well as asian nationalalities for this big transit route. you know, going from amsterdam to kuala lumpur is a typical route from europe into asia. the question's going to be, why fly over this war zone? brian, i tnk it's important we should reiterate, u.s. airlines were told by the faa back in april when russia was seizing crimea, told, do not fly over this area. u.s. airlines do not fly over the area, lufthansa telling us the german flight carrier is going to avoid that area. the question, why did malaysian allianz continue to fly that route over a war zone when you have major airlines avoiding the route? was it because, the quickest point from point a to point b? you burn the least amount of fuel.

questions malaysian airlines would be asked in tough news conferences to come. >> and saying what were they doing in that airspace, flying over that country? it really is a judgment call from care yrier to carrier, war zone to war zone, troubled region to trouble the region and up to the individual companies often. >> right. you can have initial states make that decision, the faa make that decision for the united states. euro control for europe, but going over this area here, to be candid with you, i'm not sure who controls the, who has any regulatory authority over the ukrainian/russian area. i suspect, especially a contested area, i can't answer that, but that is why you have often times the foreign carriers or these national carrier, and their governments deciding, listen, we're not going to go there. >> greg fyfe is with us by telephone. former air safety defector with the ntsb.

veteran pilot himself, for his living he's had to look into way too many catastrophic airline incident, and, greg, your thoughts coming up what is known about this aircraft going down at this hour? >> brian, there's a couple of things we all have to keep in mind. a lot of people, of course, speculated based on the early information that, you know, the shootdown of a missile. however, some of the sources that i've talked to indicated that the crew had checked in with air traffic controllers in ukraine, and then for some reason went to a no radio contact, what they call nordo, for an extended period of time, and, of course, then the aircraft was down. what the question is, is did that no radio contact have any correlation to the statement from malaysian airlines, who said that they believed there was an event that took place onboard the aircraft, which could suggest there was something happening with the

airplane, rather than ap shootdown. >> that would, certainly would invite an entirely new area of speculation and questioning. greg, to tom costello's last point. the judgments that carriers must make about using the air space, and, look, at 30,000 feet, you can feel above it all and vulnerable, but using the airspace over a troubled region? >> absolutely, brian. and tom brought up a good point. there are a lot of different authorities that go into the decision-making process. while the airline may want to fly a route, say they want to try a new route, they have to have it approved by their faa equivalent authority, to approve that route. and in this case, they're constantly ly evaluating this

route. the question will be, why was malaysian airlines flying this route? did they feel that there wasn't enough of a threat for something like this to have happened? and, again, we are assuming right now, base and early information, that this may have been a ground-based intentional act of a missile, when, in fact, it could have been an airborne event and so happened to be over this highly volatile area. so one of the other things that tom was talking about with some of the pictures, and you also mentioned where the scattering of debris is, there's going to be tell tale signs. if there was a missile event, you'd expect to see parts shed, it's very high altitudes and spread over a very long distance. so if we have a very long or wide wreckage area, or at least a debris path that could confirm or at least validate if, in fact, there was a missile-type event. if the airplane had just gone out of control, because of an event that took place onboard

the airplane, you can have an in-flight breakup due to ae aerodynamic overload, where the airplane exceeds its structural capabilities and starts to come apart because of a high speed and aerodynamic forces that took the airplane apart. the investigators, whoever does the investigation, will have to piece all of these things together to give us a good understanding whether it was some sort of external explosive type event like a missile, or something took place onboard the aircraft and the in-flight breakup, if in fact that happened, wa as result of some other event. >> former ntsb investigator. stay with us. to our viewers just joining us, yew seeing pictures on the air. some of them are coming from the 24-hour russian cable networks over there. some of them are coming from amateur video.

social media. we have stills. we have videotape. it's important to stress that none of them have, are the product of nbc news or its immediate affiliates, and, of course, it is early yet. we're showing smoke plumes. we're showing this photograph of a firefighter foaming down wreckage. this photograph of the wreckage field and the more rokz recognizable pieces of fuselage, one piece, a wing strut with an identifiable malaysian flag. we want to bring in on the telephone the last former russian ambassador, michael mcfaul. he is now out in california, stanford university. ambassador, you by now know the map here, and what we're talking about, where the aircraft is said to have gone down. refresh our viewers on the state of play in exactly this area,

and in your view what the possible causes here could be. >> thanks, brian. well, to remind everybody, there is a war going on in eastern ukraine. it's not a rebel thing. it's not some low-level conflict. it has been an all-out war, especially in the last several days, and i'd just like to remind everybody that two other aircraft have been shot down in this same vicinity in the last several weeks. ukrainian aircraft. military planes. shot down by the rebels, or the terrorists, depending on the way you talk about them. >> i'm sorry. go ahead, michael. >> and so, you know, we obviously, as you're correctly being cautiously, in reporting what we do and do not know. we don't know that much right now, but the russian reporters and ukrainian reporters that are

on the ground there, are alleging the plane was shot down, and even the commander of the rebels, a guy named igor, a russian military xbrenintellige officer also at mitted, allegedly, reported by people on the ground. i'm not on the ground, just reading what they're saying that he claimed responsibility for it, and admitted that they mistaken -- mistook the plane to be a ukrainian military aircraft. >> so, ambassador, and we'll be checking in whip our own pentagon correspondent here shortly, but this would be consistent with military hardware, something that could take this down at 30,000 feet, for people with passing knowledge of that kind of thing, this is not an amateur or a shoulder-fired missile. this would be one of the big ticket surface-to-air missiles,

perhaps going back to the soviet era? >> correct. and, again, you know, the pattern would be that just in the last couple of weeks, two other aircraft were brought down in a very similar way. so the reason -- we would suspect that is what has happened here again. again, i just listened to your previous guest, and that's a very different story that i've been hearing out of eastern ukraine. so i want to urge caution and then we need to know all the facts before we come to conclusions, but, you know, the way i look at it, reading what the russians are saying and ukrainians are saying on the ground, this looks like a plane shot down by the rebels in eastern ukraine. >> ambassador michael mcfaul. former ambassador michael mcfaul, among the leading experts on this region. thank you very much, especially for the caution and quoting the ambassador, this is an active

war zone to the pentagon we go. our correspondent jim mcla shec miklaszewski. if this was brought down by military hardware, walk us through the types of things that would do something like this. >> it would be a s.a.m. missile. surface-to-air missile. and both militaries have russian soviet-made buks.a.m. long range surface-to-air missiles kpaubl of taking down an airliner like the malaysian air flight. officials and experts, however, say that the ukrainian stockpile of these missiles is pretty much soviet era. so it's not even sure that they could still work. they have to be replenished. their batteries replenished. it's not clear the ukrainians would be capable of doing that. the russians certainly would be, and so far according to senior defense officials, they have no

indication that these kind of powerful s.a.m. missiles have fallen into the hands or have been given to the separatists there in ukraine itself. but going back to what the ambassador said a moment ago, about two recent shootdowns, and what could be very telling in regards to this incident. there was a ukrainian military transport plane, cargo plane, that was shot down in eastern ukraine just this past -- just this week, on monday. and according to u.s. officials, there is, all indications, according to u.s. intelligence, probably surveillance satellites, that that missile was fired from russian territory, across the border, into ukraine. so at least, if in fact, this was a shootdown, and, again, everybody's emphasizing that's not clear yet, that this aircraft was shot down, but if the russians shot it down, or anybody shot it down, the u.s. would have the kind of evidence necessary to figure out exactly

where that missile came from. as you know, earlier this year, we reported extensively about the russian military buildup on the ukraine border, and the recent rebuildup just within the past week or so, now 10,000 troops. again, on the border. the only reason that the u.s. could know all that, and that kind of detail is that they have those overhead satellites looking straight down and counting the numbers. >> that was to my next question. these things leave signatures, and because this is an active region of the world, the u.s. and presumably others, have constant eyes on this territory. so perhaps by now, perhaps by the close of business today, the united states and others will have a signature trail and a much better idea as to what did this? >> reporter: and whether they share that with us at this point is still the question, because

something -- something as cat stracat -- catastrophic and earth shaking as an airliner, they're going to be darn sure they have all the information exactly right before anybody goes out and reports that from the u.s. government, i'm sure. >> all right. jim miklaszewski, at the pentagon. go across town to our senior white house correspondent chris jansing, and chris, just yesterday president obama gave a statement on this very matter, this very conflict, just yesterday, he announced the next incremental upping of the sanctions. take us through that and what is being said there today about what's going on behind you. >> reporter: i think most significantly, brian, it's that the president this morning shortly apparently after this all happened was on the phone with russian president vladimir putin, talking about those sanctions, and it was towards the end of that call, we've just learned, from white house officials, that putin said to the president that he had a

report that talked to him about these earlier reports of a downed jet line ir. now, as you well know, these were significant sanctions that were levied against russia yesterday. that was the main part of the call. although we have know other details beyond that. what we do know, one of the things the president said when he was in the briefing room of the white house yesterday was that he had pushed russia over the last several weeks, and we know there was increasing concern here at the white house what was going on at the border, he had pushed russia to urge separatists to support a cease-fire. something emphasized over the last several weeks as there has been pressure whether or not there would be further sanctions on russia. some of it, of course, coming from congress. banks, energy companies, some individuals. the focus of these sanctions, because of the increasing concern about what was going on at the russian/ukrainian border. i should also say that the president before he left today,

and he took off on marine one a little bit late, directed, to be in close contact with senior ukrainian officials, but we have no further readout either from nfc or white house officials about any of that communication. >> chris jansing at the white house. michael leiter, former head of the office of counterterrorism, and former white house official in both the bush and obama administrations is with us by telephone. he, of course, is an nbc news analyst. i'm told he's on a moving train. so this could be dicey communications. michael, what do you know, and based on your listening to the coverage and following what we know so far, what do you make of it? >> well, brian, i know that officials really don't yet know what happened. lots of people in the white house, briefings, and elsewhere doing what we're doing. gathering small pieces of evidence and trying to put them together. what we also know, in my assessment is, you've got a very

good airplane flying at a high altitude. very unlike lie something is going to happen flying directly over, plik michael mcfaul said, a war zone, and that does especially in light of the early ukrainian reports suggest to me that this well could have been taken down by a surface-to-air missile and that wouldn't be a shoulder-fired missile. a fairly sophisticated one to reach 30,000 feet. >> that's right. that would limit it to military hardware, to the universe of let's say russian manufactured s.a.m., surface-to-air missiles, and then that would open the door to the whole kind of, the strate strategy, political thought behind this. it's already been mentioned on the web about unit disciplined -- individual unit discipline among the military on the ground, chain of command who would have ordered it?

who swrowouldn't have known abo it? so in the days to come, so many questions to be asked. >> there are, and we're in the immediate area, a three-sided conflict with ukrainians, the ukrai ukrainian separatists and russia. and a loose affiliation -- so it's very easy to understand how something like this could happen, because the aircraft flying over, this wouldn't be the first time it happened, in addition to the ukrainian military air craft shot down. of course, the tragedy shot down bip t by the soviet union and the tragedy of the uss ship over the persian gulf in the 1980s. so the fog of war can bring great confusion. simply looking at a blip on a radar screen in a war zone, this

is the sort of tragedy if it was, that can happen. >> i know we're competing with the train announcements. one more question, michael, about eyes on the region. is it -- as you are just fresh from the u.s. intelligence apparatus, is it your understanding that we have the, pretty much immediate capability of knowing when something is launched to that great an altitude from a region like in? like this? >> were there not a conflict going on previously, we wouldn't be in a great position to know that, but u.s. intelligence resources have surged since the russian incursion into the crimea and the subsequent conflict. so the defense intelligence agencies have technical capabilities to detect launches like this, potentially, not definitely, but potentially to

trackvia radar. my thought, with that sort of intelligence, it shouldn't take too long to have a good sense if a missile took it down and potentially where that missile came from. >> michael leiter, thank you very much for being with us. tom costello remains in our d.c. bureau. he covers aviation for us. tom, what more have you learned? >> reporter: just a few tidbits, brian. number one, lufthansa said it's not going to fly that route anymore and just heard from the russian airliner they are also going to avoid ukrainian airspace. as you and i discussed, probably we're going to get these announcements over the course of the next few hours with most of the major allianz of the world announcing they will not fly over this particular air zone, air region, if you will, because t would appear this plane. to answer one question that i raised and then i answered it myself, who controls the

airspace in the area? we're told it is, in fact, euro controlled. so despite the fact it's a pretty far distance from brussels where they are based, that falls under euro control can airspace. one other point, brian, and my apologies if i'm jumping ahead what you've already reported, but there is some discussion about people perhaps claiming responsibility, and then immediately taking it down off of twitter already. so this is -- this is the war of words, now well under way on the intern internet. >> and we have a statement from the kremlin merely talking about putin sending his condolences to the government of malaysia about this crash. the word "crash," while technically accurate, is used twice here, in this statement. the ukrainian president has issued a longer statement. tom, real quick, because it will probably become germane, euro control is procedure the

overarching, they speak multiple languages, but english is the standard language of air control, and they handle all kinds of incoming and outgoing aircraft over this region on their screens. >> reporter: that's right. it would be like the faa and the vast area that the faa controls in the united states, when air traffic control and regulation and euro control tries to do that for europe. it is based in brussel, where euro control air traffic controllers are based. of course, they have regional air traffic controllers throughout the entire region. i suspect when talking about entering into russian air territory at that point, you'd be under russian control. >> and, tom, a quick word about this airline, and this aircraft. here we are again talking about a malaysian airlines 777, for those just joining us, this is flight 17, with 295 souls onboard.

flying amsterdam-kuala lumpur. it's hard to believe of all the global carriers and all the aircraft we're back here again. >> reporter: yes. i mean, this is the -- the boeing 777, until july of 2013, had no deaths related -- associated with it, and then last july you recall that crashed landing with the av jana flight in san francisco. then the missing flight, malaysian flight 370, and, again, we don't have any idea where that plane is. the best guess, based on the, those satellite handshakes for that flight is that it went down in the south indian ocean, but they still haven't found a single piece of wreckage. that flight bound for beijing. again, a 777. now a boeing 777, and it has gone down over the ukrainian border with russia. we believe it's a 777-200 er, extended range plane, meant nor, as the name suggests, very long flights from, for example, amsterdam to kuala lumpur or san

francisco to beijing and one of the workhorses of the long-haul planes around the world and incredibly reliable. talk to most pilots, they will tell you that is their dream plane. a pilot's plane, and it is also built with multiple redundant systems that backup one another and computer systems that backup one another. i discussed about an hour and a half ago, a system called the air turbine, and it drops out of the back of the plane, should the plane lose engine power, this turbine drops out of the back near the tail, and spins in the wind so that it can generate electricity and keep the avionics working. the plane is designed to fly, regardless of what kind of a situation it comes up against, and regardless of the quality of the pilot that's in the cockpit. but what it can't fly, when it cannot keep flying, in the event

it's brought down by hostile action. >> tom, just yesterday, just last night on "nbc nightly news" we reported boeing, rolling out a new 777x, because this has been such a successful airframe, they're lengthening it, widening it, their launch customer will be qatar airways, $19 billion order for 50 aircraft with an option for 50 more. so to your point, the business of flying people safely is concerned, this has been a technical marvel and as we speak there's a notable number of them in the air. >> reporter: yes. the biggest competitor out there for them is airbus. even the a-330 or a-380. a-380, double-decker big plane we reported so much on, but the 777 has the track record of reliability now going back 20 years almost. i think the 200 series came out around '95.

200-er, '97 or so. a reliable plane and relatively fuel efficient for airlines looking for that on these long flights. >> all right. tom costello in our washington newsroom. we're monitoring a bunch of things obviously. the news wires, incoming information, social media, at this hour, the state department is briefing, and we're monitoring that to see if they can add anything to this conversation and chris, tell us more about communication between the two presidents, obama and putin? >> reporter: it was a phone call this morning, and the phone call, which we are now told, brian, was initiated by president putin, to talk about the sanctions that were imposed yesterday, hit the biggest companies in russia, including some individuals. that was the topic. they're tied in, of course. towards the end of that phone call, it was president putin who

said to president obama, something about the early reports at the time of this downed plane. we don't know any of the details of what was discussed. we only know that the president has been informed, and the timing of it isn't clear either. we only know that obviously that phone call took place, and then the president got on marine one. what's interesting here is the increasing concern we have heard at the white house over these last couple of weeks about what's been going on at that border. about the increased hostilities, and the president made a specific call yesterday to say, in the briefing room, when he announced these sanctions himself, that there had to be a cease-fire, and he expected russia, he expected president putin, to push separatists to do that. having said that, the white house, now the president is on the ground. he is at an event in delaware, brian, and then will head to new york.

they have not confirmed at all that they have any details of what happened here, and they are being very careful, as you know, this is a white house that doesn't like to come out ahead of the facts, and so i would not expect that while the president is in delaware we would hear any comments, as he walks out to marine one, there was shouted questions. he did not respond. see if we hear anything directly from the president later today. brian? >> all right. chris, we're going just across the way from you in washington. jen sake, state department spokeswoman at the podium. >> -- the secretary is, of course, aware of these reports. and we're seeking additional information. our embassy in kiev is in close contact with the ukrainian authorities on this incident, but at this point, that's all the details we have. >> so you have seen the reports apparently coming from the manifest that there were 23 u.s.

citizens onboard. even if you don't know that that's correct, can you say whether you have that information from the manifest, that apparently there were 23 u.s. passengers aboard? >> we've seen the public reports. i spoke to our team right before i came out here. we don't have any additional dames at this point on american citizens. we're looking to, of course, ob take that information. when it's available we'll make it available to all of you. >> as the secretary we know the president spoke to president putin this morning about, not this, but the plane came up, has the secretary made any calls to anyone in russia? anyone in ukraine? that you're aware of? >> not at this point. obviously, this just happened a couple of hours ago. we can keep you updated as well on any additional call thags he makes this afternoon. >> does he plan to? >> i don't have any planned calls to predict for you, but you know, if any calls happen, we can make sure those are available to all of you. >> the ukrainians, board of ministry is saying that they

have reason to believe that this is not a guess, based and assessments, that this was a russian-made missile that was in the hands of the russian separatists who also have, chatter on twitter about some of the separatists saying they did shoot down a plane. has your team on the ground spoken to the ukrainians? have they told you that this is your assessment? that this is their aassessment and you just want your oh confirmation? >> as i mentioned, woo we're in touch -- >> you'll share this? >> i don't have further readout but it's a safe assumption we're discussing reports and obviously a range of comments out there. we don't have the our own confirmation of details. i can't predict for you if and when we will. but obviously, veen lobviously, on the ground. we have no nor information to share. >> given the fact it's fluid and very early, there is already a

kind of, you know, common wisdom saying separatists have done it. just to confirm that, is this your belief, and you don't have confirmation of that? do you have suspicions of that at this point? >> i'm not going to speculate for obvious reasons. we don't have additional details to share other than the reports you've seen about the plane crash. in terms of the causes, individuals onboard, i have nothing else here. >> and the ukrainian transport planes shot down i think in the last week, maybe in the same area? is that something you're looking at in terms this could be a similar mistaken -- >> i won't speculate further for obvious reasons. >> you saw from what actually happened or whatever was responsible for it, is it correct that this type of missile that was just mentioned, the missile was among the -- sorry? >> i could have said that wrong, but --

>> this kind of missile waweapod over the past month or so that had been transiting from russia from these military facility sites in southeast -- in western russia, sorry, in western russia, to the separatists in ukraine? >> i'm happy to check that, but i don't know, we don't have confirmation that is the cause or source of the plane being down. >> i understand that, but are these missiles that the ukrainians say were responsible for this plane, are those the types of missiles, quite apart from this incident, that you were complaining had -- that russians had been sending into ukraine? >> i'm happy to check with our team on that information separately from this particular incident. >> and one of the things yesterday when you imposed new sanctions on the russians. i mean, isn't it true that one of your concerns is that the russians have been doubling down on their increasing, actually,

their supply of weapons to the sprifti i separatists? >> we stated that publicly and still have a concern about that. there's a difference between making unconfirmed -- >> i understand, but without talking about the specific -- has it been a concern the russians have been supplying them with truck-mounted or shoulder-fired missiles? >> we've expressed concerns in the past. >> particularly those type of missiles? >> i would point you to past comments made about them. >> and very clear, blame the russians for escalating the conflict in this area and that added attention to there. so whoever is to blame ultima ultimately for this -- this downing of the airliner, is there some source of responsibility borne by moscow for the situation as it now exists in the area? >> well, i think broadly speaking, matt, the fact we announced yesterday a new round of sanctions, including several defense companies, several

energy companies, speaks to our level of concern about the escalatory actions that we continue to see from russia. however, we don't have enough information with this specific incident and that's why i'm not going to be able to provide you any confirmation of details, and i don't want to speculate on who's to blame or the root cause when we don't have that information at this point. >> speaking of the climate of conflict escalated there and led to this tragedy? >> again, we don't know that at this point in time, because we don't know what the causes are or who's responsible for this plane going down. >> and what if any assistance would the administration provide for any of the investigation of this incident? >> it's too early to say. and we have traditionally, historically provided a range of assistance. you're familiar with the assistance when the malaysian plane disappeared. we can keep you up to date when

the a request is granted from our end. >> given the fact the plane did fall down in separatist territory, clearly those separatists are not equipped, capable, to launch -- i see they've called -- they've said they'll try and help with an investigation, but given the fact they clearly don't have any type of capability to launch any type of investigation, i think they might have control over the black boxes, i mean, how do you see the ukrainians and how can you help navigate ensuring there is an investigation? >> well, we're in close touch with ukrainian authorities, and if there are requests made, we will keep you all abreast. however, we are providing assistance and what kind of assistance we're providing. >> any americans onboard? >> i can't at this point in time say, and this just happened so recently, lucas, but we are happy to provide all of you with that information as soon as we have any details to confirm.

and obviously, we're seeking that information as we speak. >> [ inaudible ]. >> anymore -- okay. go ahead? okay. go ahead, matt. >> and ukraine, apart from this incident, just generally speaking of the situation in the east, i presume, but, please, tell me if i'm wrong, that you still have the same concerns and the same issues with the russians that you did yesterday that led to the imposition of the new sanctions? is that correct? >> correct, yes. >> and you haven't seen any movement by them towards meeting, towards meeting what has been asked of them? >> in the last 24 hours? no. >> excuse me. i'm not sure if you had a reaction. i don't think you did, because it happened so late, but the eu's move -- >> well -- >> based that -- they would have

new sanctions by the end of the month. is that okay with you guys? >> well, as you know, they place some restrictions, they took steps yesterday to impose costs on the russian economy. including yesterday, close coordination with the eu. they moved also to put in place the legal framework needed to impose costs on russian companies that undermine ukraines stability and territory integrity with a deadline, i think that's what you're referring to and certainly we were coordinating closely with them in touch with them. we welcome the steps the europeans have taken in this regard. i'm sure you have the details. i'm happy to outline those if up have any questions. >> one of the companies hit, a company that makes ak-47s. the russians are saying today this specific sanction runs

counter to the interests of u.s. consumers. do you have any comment on that? >> well, let me first say that clearly as we were making decisions about sanctions as it relates to here or any around the world, we've taken into account the impact on the united states, on u.s. businesses and consumers, and certainly we feel that peace and political stability and respect for international law are of critical importance to the global economy and to u.s. businesses. but let me give you some specific examples of the precautions that we take. the sanctions we impoesed yesterday, deliberately crafted to eliminate spill joovers on t united states and third-party companies. for example, in the financial sector we deliberately avoided interfering with day-to-day operations to avoid a shock to global financial markets and the energy sector, we took steps to limit the ability of certain companies to raise dollar

financing, but not tried to interfere with their ability to export oil or gas or maintain of course,ures. any impacts on u.s. businesses, u.s. consumers, as we make these decisions. >> so the pacific sanctions on this company will not affect american consumers of ak-47s? >> i haven't seen the specific impact listed. we can -- if there are specifics we can look into that. >> as far as you know, the ability of the american consumer to purchase semiautomatic assault rifles from kalashnikov have not been affected? >> i can check of level of specificity for a direct impact. sure? >> gaza, u.s. bombardment. >> uh-huh. >> are you aware of any efforts undergoing now of a cease-fire and whether the united states -- listens to jen psaki, spokeswoman for the state department. the briefing is now moving on

to, of course, the other wall-to-wall coverage story we have been covering. that, of course, is the middle east. andrea mitchell, our chief foreign affairs correspondent, is standing by and has been watching this with us. andrea, it's hard to know where to begin here. >> reporter: i know. >> except that, why don't you start off where former ambassador michael mcfaul left off, because we have been preoccupied with israeli/gaza/hamas we saw images monday of a ukrainian military transport plane, the tail logo was visible. that had presumably been shot down over this airspace. what has the pace of this war become of late? >> reporter: it has escalated dramatically. there were reports also of a ukrainian fighter jet shot down over separatist territory, and that was only last night. that was what our colleague, of course, at the pentagon, jim

miklaszewski was working on to try to confirm this morning, because in the fog of war, and with all of the partisan antipathy, we knowreports out of kiev cannot be taken, you wouldn't take reports out of moscow or dmplt onyetsq, that a fighter jet was shot down and now see the horror of the damage you're now showing, the details from the ground around donyetsk, where this airliner went down. we don't know, 33,000 feet, cruise speed, and clearly good weather. no untoward event, not on takeoff or landing. the usual wind shear moments of danger. this is obviously very, very troubling.

they've not been able to confirm what the cause was and the most significant thing i heard, a veteran diplomatic correspondent from the associated press asking about reports from his colleagues in the area. the associated press has widespread coverage, that 23 americans may have been manifested on that plane. we don't know, but this is peak travel season and that flight from kuala lumpur and on to other asian areas, a prime vacation area for american citizens living in europe or elsewhere, to be traveling on to malaysia. so this is obviously a horrible tragic coincidence with the malaysian airliner that's nerve been accounted for over the indian ocean. we don't know whether it's terrorism, shot down by one partisan or another. we do know if it was, it was likely some kind of surface-to-air missile, if it

was shot down and we have no confirmation of that. the other point we should be making that i know our colleagues are making as well, that this area has widespread intelligence coverage. it won't take long, the intelligence committee in the senate is organizing, they'll have a briefing this afternoon. a previously scheduled briefing but will meet, dianne feinstein said, getting a briefing. i talked to john mccain earlier. he said it's way too early to jump could any conclusions, but if this were not pilot error and shot down, then it is not just tragic. it is a game changer in terms of the lack of international attention to ukraine, as we've been focusing and the roast est the world, focusing on the middle east. last night we were briefed by treasury and the state department and white house, and there were sanctions imposed around 5:15 last night. the president came out and spoke himself about ramping up the sanctions. they were significant.

they're still not the sanctions that could also indiscriminately affect european allies and economicest trs as well as american interests but they are going after key defense energy and banking interests in russia, and, in fact, medium to long-range investments blocked to russian interests. not able to have access to the u.s. capital markets, and the treasury officials briefed us last night said that they were prepared to step that up. that was the subject of the president's conversation with vladimir putin earlier today. but sanctions, medvedev issued a strong blast against the sanctions. we don't know what putin said to the president, obviously, but this was just about at the time that early word was coming about this downed malaysian airliner. brian? >> andrea, to one of your points i want to emphasize to our american viewers watching, especially those who may fear for a family member, may fear they have a connection to

someone traveling in europe, transiting through amsterdam what we heard in that briefing, in the form of a question was the first we've heard that there was the possibility of 23 americans onthat manifest. you heart the state department spokeswoman say no confirmation. we certainly don't have independent confirmation of that fact or number as yet. we've been told we'll hear from the airline, the carrier, at 4:00 p.m. eastern time. this airline, sadly, just received a crash course in dealing with disasters, and members of the public and the media. they still have an airliner missing in the pacific, in the indian ocean, presumably. what a turn of events, and andrea, it is now known that we have notice to aviators in that region. common sense, because there was warfare ongoing at ground letve

and it's left off to americans flying over that region, but it's left up to individual carriers. >> reporter: indeed. in fact, the escalation there, make that point, brian, because there had been a call for a cease-fire around the time we all in normandy at d-day and pairchenko, the new leader was there with vladimir putin. we saw the dramatic sort of interactions with obama and putin that day, which we were reporting on, and that conversation at lunch in normandy was all about a cease-fire. that ukrainians were arguing for. and which they accepted. and they claim, and the u.s. agrees with them, that the separateists did not go along and there have been incidents in the air, tragically, as well as according to american intelligence, an escalation rather than a de-escalation of armaments, tankses and other heavy artillery going across the border from eastern ukraine to russia.

and it was that legged proof from american intelligence cited by treasury and white house officials last night when we were briefed saying it was an escalation of resupplying of the sprift its led them to the decision vladimir putin was not doing what he promised to do. de-escalating the conflict with ukraine, and that was the result, the sanctions, and the europeans were meeting simultaneously. they met last night and today and the europeans led by angela merkel, the most powerful of them all, were complying with much less stringent sanctions, but sanctions nonetheless. this, obviously, is an incident that turns out to be an act of war or terror, or an act by one side or another is going to dramatically escalate the stakes for iran involved, europe as well as the united statesants and, andrea, check in briefly with someone we both know. retired army four-star general and nbc news military analyst general barry mccaffrey in seattle.

general what strikes you as you've been listening to coverage watching incoming pictures? >> i'm astonished at the enact of the spokeswoman to say anything sensible about the situation. one would think the u.s. embassy in the netherlands almost immediately within an hour or so would know whether u.s. passengers were aboard. second comment. obviously this was a mistake, shootdown, by somebody. nobody wants to bring down a commercial airliner. they're try fog hide engagement. third observation, these sa-17 buck missiles, tremendous self-pro pepped capability. they have a range out to kilome. you can see or hear an aircraft at 30,000 feet. normally engaged by target acquisition radar. if this was were russian i would hope they would have easily detected a known flight path, an

iff, identification gender pro, lard to imagine the russian military would have done. so the conclusion is, if it's a shootdown, then it's more likely very sophisticated equipment the russians are pushing across that border that would have targeted and brought down by mistake a commercial airliner. final comment, nobody in his right mind should be flying commercial aircraft in that part of the world. it's astonishing to me malaysian airlines was still using that route. >> andrea mitchell, back to you, briefly? >> reporter: very briefly, i wanted to explain to the officials from the state department, the first word la to come from malaysia air about who was 0 on that manifest. there are also privacy laws and we've known whatever things like this happen, whenever incidents happen with americans abroad briefly, the state department is not permitted to release names until families are notified, but the first word as to whether there are americans would come from the manifest of that site

and that will await, probably the 4:00 eastern briefing from kuala lumpur. >> and general mccaffrey, if this was indeed a mistake it again raises questions about unit discipline, trigger discipline, firing discipline on the ground? >> well, you know, these self-propelled weapons, the sa-17, you can launch them and acquire a target from a fairly small crew. normally they're glued into a batal yarn and anti-aircraft brigade control system. tied into the commercial transsponsors. so, again, it's, it would be a major incompetence if the russian military had done this, but it's easier to see how it would happen with poorly trained units operating separate from a larger control system. >> all right. general barry mccaffrey in seattle.

and continuing to do that in our washington, d.c. newsroom. tom costello pap flight 17, amsterdam to kuala lumpur, a long-haul flight. for that that yeesed a long-haul aircraft. extended range version of the wide body boeing 777. the boeing 777 last in the news, because this same airline suffered a catastrophic failure of some find, lost one in the indian ocean, and, tom, what more do we know? >> reporter: the flight left or pushed back from the gate at about 6:15 eastern time, we believe, today. 6:30 when it was supposed to have cleared the ramp. cleared the tarmac at amsterdam's airport and then went off radar about 9:15 eastern time. so three hours or so into the flight. according to flight tracker.com. a come other quick tidbits i've been following here. there is a report out of the netherlands that a dutch tour group, tour operator, says there

were dozens of dutch citizens booked on that flight. we would also point out, as you mentioned, a 777-200 series we believe delivered back to malaysian airlines's in 1987 and it had about 43,000 hours of flight time on it. standard. not excessive. by any means, a good number of hours, if the plane's being managed and accordingly. maintained accordingly. the defense minister out of the malaysia, out of malaysia, rather, you recall we became familiar with him during the moo lash hsia 370 story, the gentleman who appeared sometimes with a tie and sometimes he was also wearing a hat or a cap of some sort. he says that there's no yet confirmation that this plane was shot down. he's instructed the country's military to check the prime minister of malaysia also ordering an investigation. i found this interesting. as we are all perusing all of the wires and all of our foreign

contacts as best we can, that the associated press is reporting that a launcher similar to the beuke missile system, seen near the eastern ukrainian town held by rebels. who knows where this originates. that's one report out of the ap. 295 people ongourd, malaysian flight 217 and believed all of gone and we hearken back and recall the other malaysian story follows for moss, back in early march, 239 people onboard and the plane is still missing and has not been seen and not a single piece of wreckage turned up that is believed to the in the south indian ocean. on that investigation, australian authorities are hoping to begin again, begin anew, the search in a new area off the australian coast by

about 1,2 miles in about another month the time or so and told by australian commanders that effort could take months. one of the executives with malaysian airlines says the search for malaysia 370 could take decades. his word. >> and the a point about topography, going through the still photos again. there are plane-spotting websites and photographers all over the world, and, of course, no two aircraft are alike and they go by tail number, and manufacturing date and serial number. these are the photos available on the web of this and of the plane we're talking about. not a similar model. we don't know if this blue and white, the paint job, was still on the aircraft at the time of the incident. airlines, the paint schemes come and go. sometimes they're one-time promotions. a lot of aircraft were painted

specially for the recent world cup, for example. so we don't know if this is exactly how it looked when it went down. we do know that this matches the tail number of the aircraft, flight 17, this 200 series er that went down today. i just wanted to make that point, because with the web age, we have no shortage of imagery or people that hang out at airport, aircraft and the record all of this. >> reporter: in fact, i got an e-mail. maybe this is the photo. i haven't looked at it. somebody suggesting they have a photo of the plane today in amsterdam. that is certainly out there. it's also worth just mentioning preefly, you cannot -- you can compare this to the tremendous human tragedy and suffering, as we've seen nearly 300 lives lost or the 239 we believe were lost on malaysian flight 370. if these two incidents were the

results of somebody else's actions, a rue pilot, for example, in this case a missile, this airline suffered two horrendous tragedies in the course of 4 1/2 months. it is a partially state-owned airline. the as you would expect in

having been shot down by it was believed russian forces and now something quite different. a passenger airliner on a long haul flight from amsterdam to kuala lumpur. again, flying under the malaysian flag, malaysian airlines. our coverage is continuing. we're going to pause here for just a second or two while at

the top of the hour we greet new viewers who will be joining us for our nbc news coverage of the downing of this malaysia airlines 777. welcome back at 2:00 p.m. here on the east coast, as more and more people are tuning in now to this breaking news story. a malaysian airlines 777, and, of course if that sounds familiar, the same basic type of aircraft that went missing in the indian ocean. this incident, far differ. feared shot down near the ukrainian/russian border. tom costello covers aviation for us in our washington newsroom. tom, tell us what we know at this hour about this story we've been covering? >> reporter: this just crossing just now. the international association of air transport association is saying based on the information currently available, it is