peace. >> that's all for now, i'm lester holt. thanks for joining us. the obama administration seeks a permanent end to the fighting in gaza, what both sides think they can gain from a brutal war that killed thousands of people, mostly palestinians. this morning i'll have israeli prime minister netanyahu whether he thinks there's a military solution to the problem. the other foreign policy flash point for president obama, libya a threat to america. has the west shown weakness in the face of russian president vladimir putin. the future of the party, immigration fight. does the gop have a new way to fight poverty or is it the same old idea? former vice presidential candidate paul ryan joins me

with a sunday exclusive. good sunday morning. the latest now out of israel appear gaza where the latest hour brings more fighting or temporary cease-fire. despite diplomatic efforts that include the u.s., there is yet to be a lasting agreement. today's development hamas started firing more rockets at israel after rejecting extension of israeli imposed cease-fire. israel is now reviewing a hamas call for a 24-hour humanitarian truce. israeli troops resumed military offensive in gaza this morning. our richard engel joins me now with the very latest from gaza. richard, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, david. yet again there is another attempt to put a humanitarian cease-fire in place. but we've seen these come and go. a lasting deal here still remains elusive. israelis and palestinians are both paying a heavy price for this. as we saw for ourselves during a lull in the fighting, parts of gaza are being devastated.

>> he's lost everything, his home, his possessions. but in this rare moment of relative safety, he's looking for something much dearer, the body of his son. this is what's left of gaza's most crowded neighborhood. two weeks ago 200,000 people lived here. only hints are left of what life was like. torn laundry on a line, a single plant unmoved, a crib perched on a ruined apartment building. it took days of deliberate shelling and airstrikes to reduce this neighborhood to rubble. >> this is no precision war against homelands and its weapons, it's far more basic than that. it's punishment. israel's way of telling gaza if you fire rockets, this is what you get. >> even after all the destruction, even after more than 1,000 killed, including several hundred children, many

here still support hamas. this man says half the people are tired of hamas after all this, the other half supports hamas thinking israeli should feel a little of the pain that we feel here. to understand what hamas is fighting for, it helps to look at a map. gaza is a tiny strip of land under a tight blockade. in the west fishing is limited to six miles offshore. in the east gaza is fenced in by razor wire. in the north, israel tightly controls two land crossings restricting building materials and, strangely, even crayons. in the south egypt has closed the only crossing at rafa. hamas's main demands, ease the israeli blockade and open the egyptian crossing. israelis are feeling the pain of this war, too. so far it has lost more than 40 soldiers but it's also fighting for wider goals. a leading israeli expert on

military affairs. >> this is an asymmetric war. for hamas, perhaps, it's enough not to lose, to remain standing after three weeks of battle. for israel, this is not enough. it is the stronger military power and it needs to send a strong message to the region, to the neighborhood. >> reporter: hamas uses two main weapons against israel, an elaborate network of tunnels to attack and kidnap israeli soldiers and civilians and its rockets. now including longer range rockets that can reach deep oninto israel. israel's main objectives, destroy the tunnels, demilitary tarrize the gaza strip. it can strike at israel with thousands of missiles. >> they are deep into the escalation and looking for a way

out. it gets messier and uglier and more violent as we proceed. >> which is why now international efforts to reach a lasting cease-fire have become so urgent. israel has long said it has no choice in this war, that it simply cannot accept more than 2,400 rockets being fired at its city. palestinians we've spoken to actually understand that but says israel doesn't have to flatten entire neighborhoods and kill hundreds of children to do it. david. >> richard engel on the ground in gaza with his perspective analysis. thank you. i'm joined now by the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. prime minister, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. good to be with you, david. >> there is talk of another cease-fire, a pause in the fighting. what are you prepared to accept and could it lead to a more lasting cease-fire? >> you know, we've accepted five cease-fi

cease-fires, acted upon them. hamas has rejected every single one of them, violated them, including two humanitarian cease-fires which we accepted and implemented in the last 24 hours. now hamas is suggesting the cease-fire, believe it or not, david, they have even violated their own cease-fire. so they continue to fire at us. of course we'll take the necessary action to protect ourselves, protect our people, including the tunnels they are digging under our border and trying to reach our people. we'll do what's necessary to defend ourselves. >> what does it say to get the kind of cease-fire the united states government and others are seeking right now of a longer duration? >> i think what we need to do is go to the egyptian initiative. the egyptian initiative is the only game in town. the egyptian initiative will also enable us to get what i think are prerequisites for sustainable period of quiet. that requires in essence demilitarization of gaza. that is we have to demille

tarrize it. we cannot allow them to restock this arsenal or we'll be stuck in another five, six months with the same problem. we want demilitarization of gaza. that will enable social and economic relief people of gaza want. i'll tell you why the two of tight. suppose you want to bring in cement or concrete to rebuild houses in gaza, houses where hamas has fired on us and we have to take action against them will okay. if you want to bring in that concrete, how do you know that concrete and cement will not be used again as hamas has been using in the last few years to rebuild the tunnel, kingdom underground they are using to penetrate israel. so you have to have a mechanism to ensure demilitarization. have you to have supervision on social and economic relief. same with money. you want money to go to the

people. there's a link between demilitarization and social and economic relief and i think that's what has to be discussed. let me ask you about the price to israel, this ongoing conflict, the staggering number of dead civilians on the palestinian side in gaza and the fact that just this week you had condemnation from around the world by the targeting of a u.n. school that killed children and those civilians who were fleeing a safe place to go in the fighting. was this a mistake on the part of israel even though the u.n. says this was clearly marked and israeli forces knew the gps coordinates of the school? >> first of all, hamas is responsible for the death of civilians. we're not targeting a single civilian. we're responding to hamas action and we're telling the civilians leave. hamas is telling them to stay. why is it telling them to stay? it wants to pile up their own

dead bodies. they not only want to kill our people, they want to sacrifice their own people. >> where can they go? you say they should leave. where can they reasonably go? >> i'll get to it. there's plenty of places they can go to but hamas is making sure they don't go anywhere. let me tell you about the school. secretary-general of the united nations before this incident took place admitted that two u.n. schools in gaza were used to stockpile rockets, and he condemned hamas -- he condemned hamas for allowing, turning these schools into military targets, legitimate military targets. we still do not target schools. the schools, arms used to attack us. our initial investigation doesn't show it's our fire, it shows it may have been hamas rocket fire. that's still being investigated. the important thing to understand is that the reason we have civilians killed is not because israel is targeting civilians but because hamas is

using civilians as human shields, missiles to protect our people. they use their people to protect their missiles. >> you have heard in an unguarded moment by secretary kerry last sunday where he mocked the idea of israel conducting pinpoint strikes. the president has made no secret of the fact that he's told you he's having concerned about civilian deaths. are you worried about vanishing u.s. support for this operation if it goes on further? first of all, i've been, i think, like every israeli looking at these -- at the casualties. nobody is happy here. everybody regrets a single civilian death. something we deeply regret. it's not our responsibility. i've been to combat, to war. i know what efforts israeli army takes to minimize civilian

targets. the united states has been unequivocal supporting the rights and condemning hamas for using civilians as human shields. i think that unequivocal support is necessary if we are going to have a successful conclusion to this operation. if hamas comes up winning, not only in the propaganda war but actually shows it actually received a lot of good, i think that peace will be very, very hard pressed to move that peace forward. however, if hamas is condemned, weakened, discredited, demille tarized, that opens up the path for peace. >> final question. do you believe there's actually a military solution to israel's hamas problem? >> i think we have to make a distinction between palestinian israeli conflict with those willing to co-exist with israel,

that's the palestinian authority. there we can have a real solution and any kind of political solution with hamas. hamas is a terror organization that is committed to our destruction, supported bin laden, condemn for taking action against bin laden, wants radical state. you have to weaken, discredit them, demilitaryize them. >> can you force them out militarily? is there a military solution to this problem? >> we can do a lot of things. i'm not going to did you our operation with you. but we have not drawn any limits on our activity. we do targets hamas. we do not target civilians. we will take the actions that are necessary to defend our peoplish as any country would. the united states would. if you had 2500 rockets falling on your city, if you had terror tunnels dug underneath your

border to reach your kindergarten, if you had attacks by land, sea, air of course you take action. you take military action aplenty. i have no doubt you would. so does israel. >> prime minister netanyahu, as always, thank you for your time. >> thank you. now to spokesman for the united nations relief and works agency. it's his organization that runs the school in northern gaza that was devastated thursday by this attack that left 16 people dead including children. the school was crowded with hundreds of palestinians seeking refuge from the fierce fighting. as you heard the prime minister say, and you know, of course, this fighting has resumed despite talk of cease-fires. are there other u.n. facilities that have been hit? >> well, just within the last few minutes quite literally i'm hearing from colleagues in gaza of some kind of explosion, which initial reports indicate is actually inside the main u.n.

compound in the district of gaza city. we have got people on the ground investigating. we cannot say what it is but clearly it is another tragic example of what could happen to civilians in this pitiless conflict. look at what you just talked to the prime minister about. women, children. we saw pictures of the most appalling carnage. that is why justice with this instance that happened in the last few minutes at the u.n. conflict in gaza we call on the warring party to respect sanctity of civilian life, inviableability, humanitarian workers. we have lost three workers. any other organization would have withdrawn. >> what about what the prime minister said? you accept what he said? he very directly accuses hamas of using civilians, of putting

civilians in harm's way as human shields. do you believe that's accurate? do you accept that? >> let me be very clear about this. an ra is responsible for its own installations. where we have found neutrality violations by militants as we did with rockets being discovered in schools closed for the summer we proactively issued a statement strongly condemning it as a flagrant violation of international law. we contacted all the parties. now we have actually been in contact at the highest level through the secretary-general's office to get assistance from the united states mines action service. we are not an organization, i hope you will agree, that as it's been accused handing weapons to hamas. we have behaved responsibly to protect our staff and preserve our neutrality. >> the israeli government has released videotape within the

past hour posted on youtube. nbc news has not independently verified, israelis saying, i realize you cannot see this video but our audience k i'll describe it to you. that purports to show rockets being fired from a u.n. school. is this accurate? could this be happening without the u.n.'s knowledge that would only bolster the prime minister's point that hamas is using civilians, using united nations even in a kind of propaganda war? >> to be fair to me, to bring me on a live program and expect me to comment live on air on pictures i haven't actually seen, i think anyone looking at this program would agree that's really unfair. if i can see it, i'll happily comment on it. can i make the point that we have said that all sides have to respect the inviability of u.n.

compound. if that were the case we would strongly condemn it. we're not an army. we have moral force, we have the force of international law, and we have the principles of humanitarianism to protect us but that's it. you know, that's why we had a u.n. protected school with a blue flag on top of it, the israeli army had been notified of its location. let me also tell you we spent hours on the phone begging, pleading with israeli army to allow civilians out on that terrible day. in the end we did not get a green light. the result, the consequence, tragic consequences revolts the world and quite rightly so. >> to be clear, i'm fully aware you cannot see the video. i was not trying to put you in an unfair position. the video the audience can see was not to verify but ask your response what israeli government said if rockets were fired from the facility and if you're aware

of them. i think your position is clear and i thank you for your time this morning. >> that you very much indeed. adding, of course, to america's troubles overseas, it is just not the war in gaza but now the, quote, free wheeling militia violence in libya has u.s. embassy emptying this morning after evidence of the breakdown of the country. two years after the attack in gaza that left four dead. plus in ukraine, more russian troops moving to the border of u.s. intelligence reports, putin will hand over more sophisticated weaponry to the rebels. does this show the russian leader is not taking u.s. threats seriously in the face of what he perceives is weakness by the west. with me now democratic senator chuck schumer from new york. senator, before we move to other areas, let me button up the discussion about the war in gaza at this point and whether you position u.s. government should be calling on israel to do something differently here to

get a different result. >> here is what i think. first, the loss of life is terrible. you see the pictures, the grieving mothers on both sides of the border and your heart just breaks. but we're not going to have peace if there's a cease-fire -- we're not going to have peace if israel is pressured to go for a cease-fire that allows hamas to maintain its tunnels and rockets. there have been three cease-fires, israel accepted all three. hamas just last night rejected another cease-fire. the minute the cease-fires are over they send rockets back into israel. lets not forget one thing. hamas is an organization sworn to israel's destruction. it believes it has the moral right to do military action against israel at any time. so we can't use these cease-fires as a way for hamas to reload. once israel is allowed to take care of the rockets and the tunnels, i believe there can be a real lasting cease-fire and

eventually peace in gaza. because when hamas doesn't have the ability to militarily attack israel, as it has done repeatedly over the years, then it will lose its weight, palestinian people will bring in a more moderate group and humanitarian aid and economic aid will be used to help them, not to build tunnels, not to pay for rockets. so it's really almost impossible to have peace as long as hamas is in control of gaza. a cease-fire should happen but it should happen without pressuring israel to avoid getting rid of the rockets and tunnels. that's hamas's trump card. >> let me ask you about libya. the embassy evacuated american personnel because of the militia fighting. it raises to me a broader question about america's staying power in a region and in a country that's falling apart. america was part of an action taken along with the arab league and other european countries to

take out muammar gaddafi but now you have a state that seems to be coming apart. what role should america be playing? >> this is very difficult. i spoke to the state department yesterday. the fighting near the embassy was not aimed at the embassy. it was two factions fighting. one had a big, big sort of military base near the embassy and the other was firing at it. and the actual rockets and missiles and bullets hit the embassy. so there was no choice but to evacuate. obviously these situations are very difficult in the world. while we should be as humanitarian as possible, i am dubious to really influence outcome in this part of the world. we have not been able to do that in almost any place at all, maybe tunisia. >> what about russia. the big question in commentary as russia forthifies positions in eastern ukraine, europe has been slow to ratchet up economic sanctions even as fresh evidence

suggesting culpability and providing the weapon that took down malaysia airlines flight. this is tantamount to appeasement by the west of vladimir putin. >> i tend to agree with that. putin has shown he has no conscious. he takes advantage of this horrible downing of the airliner and redoubles his efforts and rearms the rebels. it's about time we took tougher action against putin. he's a schoolyard bully. what i learned in brooklyn, you show a bullie weakness they take further advantage. you show them strength, they back off. here is what we should do. our strong hand is the diplomatic and economic. we should raise the sanctions, economic sanctions that really hurt russia already further. we should remind the europeans who have to be part of the sanctions that they should not be like 1938 europe where appeasement governed. if they appease putin, they will not stop him. he will get worse. second, we should take diplomatic actions. we should tell putin and the

russians if they keep this up, we will move to expel them, along with europeans, from the wto and we will not allow the world cup to go forward in four years in russia. putin has to be told to pay a price. we have to be smart about it. militarily we don't have the strength. they have the second largest army. no americans want troops in the ukraine but we do have strength economically and diplomatically. we should use it and we should make sure and do everything we can to get the europeans to stop this policy of appeasement. it will just make putin stronger and pay a bigger price later. >> we'll leave it there. senator schumer, thanks very much. appreciate it. when we come back, congress is about to leave for the summer having done nothing on immigration. president obama is ready to act on his own. is there a way through this impasse? i'll ask one of the republican party's big hitters, 2012 vice presidential candidate paul ryan. he'll be joining me next. [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, we've always been on the forefront of innovation.

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my mom works at ge. we are back house budget chair paul ryan one of the most influential words in the party and politics. his plans provided a blueprint for efforts to roll back government. this week he unveiled a major proposal to fight poverty.

chairman ryan joins me from his home state of wisconsin. good to see you. >> good morning, david. >> lots of talk. we've talked about foreign affairs and hot spots around the world. i want to focus back home. laid out a plan for attacking poverty this week, which i'll get to in a moment. here congress is about to leave having achieved so very, very little. on this issue of immigration, you voted to support a law that basically created a situation we have now, which is those who come to the border from central america have to be put into a process where they are evaluated before they can be instantly deported. do you have a different view how that should happen now? do you think these children and others, tens of thousands of them should be sent back home? >> yes, i do. otherwise the humanitarian crisis will continue. otherwise families in countries far away on the other side of mexico will be giving thousands of dollars to traffickers to take their children over the border. the humanitarian crisis will get worse. i do believe we need to amend this law, which never intended

for this to happen, to make sure you can treat people in noncontiguous countries like we do pex cans and canadians so we can stop this crisis. we intend to do this this coming week in the session in congress. the other point about congress doing nothing, look no forward than the united states senate. we've passed 300 bills in the house, job creation, fixing problems sitting in the senate going nowhere because the senate has chosen basically to not legislate and give the president a freehand. >> at the same time there's issues and people watching disaffected with both sides of people in washington, looking at issues with some of the problems in veterans administration. both house and senate pass a bill and you can't even reconcile some of these differences. this is washington at work doing nothing. >> we're frustrated as much as you are. we've been passing bills and they are walking away. they are in cancer this weekend about the veteran's issue.

we've proposed a specific issue any veteran who can't get the care they deserved and earn get the care. now a specific solution. now democrats and administration willing to work with us to do that. >> let me ask you about poverty. i want to put up a summary what you are proposing how to rethink programs, consolidate 11 federal anti-poverty programs including programs like food stamps, public housing sis answer, child care aid, low in come energy sis answer and cash welfare, consolidate them, have states administer them. they would have a certain amount of money, creativity to spend that money, creation of individual case officers at a state level who could deal with a poor family, for instance, and try to give them a path out. skeptics have said, cited one thing that really struck me. some of the poorest states are run by republican governors who have refused to even expand access to medicaid under the obama care law. you can understand why people would be skeptical giving them that kind of power would lead to

constructive solutions to deal with people who are poor. >> look, first of all, these programs don't work with each other. in many ways they end up being counter-productive. poverty is a complicated problem and it needs to be customized. second of all we have a poverty management system with respect to the government. if you want to have a healthy economy and real solutions, you have to have a healthy safety net. the safety net needs to work to get people out of poverty. my poverty here is not focus on effort, enput, how much money we spend, lets focus on outcomes. are we actually getting people out of poverty? the best way to do that, in my opinion, listen to people on the ground, fighting poverty person-to-person, and give them more flexibility in exchange for accountability to get people out of poverty. we have learned good lessons about the right way to do this and not. i can argue we would customize benefit based on their particular needs which actually helps them get out of poverty

long-term. we spend $800 billion every year on nine different programs to fight poverty yet we have the highest poverty rates in a generation. change the focus. this is a very good step in the right direction. i want to have a conversation about how to improve the outcomes. >> lets talk about your own attitudes on people who are poor and their views on government you were on the program in january of last year and you said the following. >> we don't want a dependency culture. our concern in this country is with the idea that more and more able-bodied people are becoming dependent on the government or upon themselves and lively hoods. >> it doesn't sound like a lot of sympathy for people who need the government's help. what you seem to be saying is people have a problem with their own dependency here the government is only furthering. >> that's not my intent. far from it. my point, and i'll make it again, we don't want to have a poverty management system that simply perpetuates poverty. we want the root causes of poverty to get people out of poverty. i would argue that is the best way to go forward.

that's what we're proposing here, have benefits customized to a unique person's problems because poverty is very complicated. to not just keep them where they are but help them get where they want to be. that is the thrust of these proposals. the federal government's approach has ended up maintaining poverty, managing poverty. in many ways disincentivized people going to work. in some cases you lose benefits going to work. some don't go to work because of the federal disincentive to do so. we need to reemphasize getting people up in their lives, giving them the tools to do that. that's the point. able-bodied people should go to work and we should have a system that helps them do that so they can realize their potential. that to me is a far better system, to get people out of poverty long-term than just spend more hardworking taxpayer dollars on a program that is not getting the results that people deserve. >> chairman paul ryan, a debate that will continue. thank you very much for your thoughts this morning. >> thank you, david.

>> coming up here, who does ted cruz believe is to blame for failure of chronic to pass legislation in a gridlocked washington. >> it should embarrass all of us. it's the result of a deliberate partisan decision. >> the roundtable is here. we'll tackle that. plus "the new york times" big statement about marijuana legalization just this morning big statement about marijuana legalization just this morning and why the paper's hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection? yeah, we help with fraud protection. we monitor every purchase every day and alert you if anything looks unusual. wow! you're really looking out for us. we are. and if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, you're never held responsible. just to be clear, you are saying "frog protection" right? yeah, fraud protection. frog protection. fraud protection. frog. fraud. fro-g. frau-d. i think we're on the same page. we're totally on the same page. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. fraud protection. get it at discover.com

as long as i've lived in iowa, (strauss' blue danube playing) this is kathleen. setting up the perfect wedding day begins with arthritis pain and two pills. afternoon arrives and feeling good,

but her knee pain returns... that's two more pills. the evening's event brings laughter, joy, and more pain... when jamie says... what's that like six pills today? yeah... i can take 2 aleve for all day relief. really, and... and that's it. this is kathleen... for my arthritis pain, i now choose aleve. get all day arthritis pain relief with an easy-open cap. roundtable, ruth marcus columnist for "washington post," david brooks, henderson, political reporter from "washington post." welcome back. so many intractable problems overseas. why don't we tackle something few people can agree on at home,

that's marijuana. "new york times" this morning with a major statement, lead editorial calling for the legalization of marijuana by "the new york times." a portion of the editorial board piece this morning. there are no perfect answers to people's legitimate concerns about marijuana use. but neither are there answers about tobacco or alcohol. we believe that on every level, health effects, the impact on society, law and order issues, the balance falls squarely on the side of national legalization that will put decisions on whether to allow recreational or medical production in use with where it belongs at the state level. david brooks, you've weighed in on this debate before. >> i disagree with them on the larger issue. i don't know what they have been smoking up there. the haze. >> they didn't inhale. >> yeah, right. >> actually, they did. >> i have two basic issues. one, the effects on the teenager brain really are pretty significant. they acknowledge that in the editorial. i don't think we can sanction adults fine and if you're 18,

you can't do it. that's not going to work, i don't think. second, i don't think the government should be sanctioning activity most mature out of it. i don't think it's the way we want to spend our minds. but here is something i do agree with my colleagues on. i could be wrong on marijuana. i wouldn't mind some state experimentation. really what the editorial is calling for federal legalsation, allow states leeway. even though i'm opposed to it, i think throwing it to the states -- >> what are we learning from the states? >> we're learning from colorado that at least in terms of revenue there's a great deal of revenue, $184 million, something like that. also at least these early statistics show there's a slight decrease in crime. i think it's about 3% year over year from 2013 to 2014. >> early. >> it's still very early, that's true. >> marijuana legalization is a budget issue. >> they can make a lot of money on tobacco also, but we don't want that. i'm with david. i don't have a huge problem with

letting states experiment, but i think for states to decide to go the full legalization route is a problem precisely for my mommy reason. can you say it's okay for adults but everybody knows who has teenagers like me, the fact that alcohol is legal increases their access to alcohol making marijuana readily legally available -- my kids are at home laughing at me. it is a vast social experiment. we do not know the outcome, except that the best evidence is that you lose -- if you use marijuana as a teenager regularly, eight iq points. i don't know about the rest of the table but i don't have eight to lose. >> can we get to a point where, like with alcohol, the message is use in moderation? >> it's a serious issue and i think it's fascinating that the two of you are agreeing. >> they are both so conservative. >> to me, when i think of grass

as something to walk on, pot as something to put a plant in. such a square, that's where i'm coming from. i think it's important to have the debate but i think -- i wonder what's the rush? why not see -- >> pardon the pun. >> this is going to be part of the new culture war in 2016 i think we'll see decisions especially on the republican side the rand paul wing of the party, chris christie more establishment wing of the party as well. >> the country is getting more libertarian on these issues, everyone should do what they want. we're part of a community affected by each other's views, each other's values. there's value in government playing some role in restricting the culture of health for teenagers. >> i follow all the international events, the news out of gaza, ukraine, now libya. i just sit back and i think a lot of people have to be wondering, my sister is saying to me, everything seems so grim

and there doesn't appear to be a solution. what is our ability, u.s. ability at the moment to fix any of this, influence any of this. >> very de minimus. >> you heard chuck schumer say we don't have the strength to take on russia. >> we don't have the strength. we don't have the will. let me be clear item not arguing for boots on the ground in a lot of these places. george bush used to talk about the humble policy before it was not a humble policy. but there are two simultaneous things we need to keep in mind. america cannot withdraw from the world, consequences of that, rand paul notwithstanding, are very, very dangerous. but america also has a limited ability to completely influence events where there have been decades, centuries, of tribal conflicts we can't necessarily fix. >> you think that restraint on the part of the president to recognize that reality is at some point going to be respected

or still viewed as weakness? >> i think you've seen his approval ratings in the foreign policy realm certainly plummet beginning really in the fall of 2013. you've seen that as a steady trend. i think we haven't figured out what it looks like for americans to lead in terms of the global stage but also pull back in terms of militarily. what does foreign policy look like. >> we did this, after world war ii had an american led order which involved constant gradual pressure. that constant gradual pressure which involves small wars several years kept the wolves at bay, at their back. now they are advancing, don't feel pressure against them. you just get a lot more disorder unless that constant form of pressure. >> in russia you have a place, for how much of history has russia paid attention to american policy. right now what they are worried about is their own region, their

part of the world. when they think about ukraine, afghanistan, georgia, hungary, poland, that's their neck of the woods. there's one school of thought what vladimir putin is doing, there's this grand design he wants to create this empire. the other frankly smart people i've talked to say he's ad hocking it. >> he lost the ability to control what's on the ground. he may be a good tactician but strategically. let me turn back to congress and the do nothing nature of it. some of the examples from veterans administration to other more mundane things bipartisan agreement that can't result in anything being done. my colleague kelly o'donnell spoke to one of the most outspoken voices ted cruz of texas for who is to blame for getting nothing done. watch this. >> there's only one member of the u.s. senate who has control of the agenda. that is the majority leader. i can't control the agenda on

the senate floor. the reason we have no votes on tax reform is because harry reid won't allow votes on tax reform. the reason we don't have any votes on regulatory reform, because harry reid won't allow votes on regulatory reform. the reason we don't spend a minute talking about substantive issues on jobs is because harry reid won't allow the votes. at the end of the day, the senate used to be called the world's most deliberative body, we don't debate anything nowadays. >> ruth marcus, harry reid li like -- no, no, no votes. >> there is a legitimate for debate on the floor. harry reid must be texan for chutzpah of for ted cruz of all people to be complaining about destructionism, lamenting

dysfunction when he's been an architect of that, with a ridiculous trying to stop a bill that would pass. he won't vote for immigration money if we don't undo previous acts for dreamers. i'm going to actually womp on other guests in my role here listen to paul ryan saying senate has chosen not to legislate when everybody understands senate's legislation bill on the house floor would pass. okay. >> one of the things, david, i see when i talked to people around the country, until incentives are changed, a desire for some compromise or even meeting challenges that americans want dealt with will not get done because nobody will give the other side even a small win. >> i used to think the problem is washington. now i think the problem is the country. the country is important polarized. people in the states are more

polarized. also attitude. politics half truth, both sides with a piece of the truth. the immigration debate. kids flown across the border. we have to do two things at once, give them humanitarian refuge, some of them and readjust the law that induces them to come over. democrats want to give them refuge, you can't say they are both kind of right, lets jam it into a i will about. we don't have mentality to say both sides are right. >> next week they will go home for five weeks summer break after a year in which they have accomplished almost nothing. you talked about it earlier with paul ryan. you had not om immigration, the border issue which everybody realizes is urgent, but the veterans where you had a bill that passed senate 93-3. sponsors bernie sanders socialist and john mccain that can't get an agreement. so david i hear you saying it's the country.

but something is wrong. >> the incentives don't change for members of congress, and they are preying on that polarization to stay in office and stay popular enough by standing on principle. >> that's right. i think it was noble over the last couple of days you have hillary clinton talking about compromise, talking about the idea we shodn't elect folks who essentially say they are going to go to washington to do nothing. i think you are having folks if you look at 2014 and the folks who are running, they are sometimes having issues on the stump justifying their time in congress, not having passed bills. you wonder in 2016 some of the guys running if they are going to have this same issue as well. >> let me take a break. thanks to the roundtable very much. when we come back, obama care on the opens after court rulings. next, how people of vermont are looking north of the border and battle over the state's own unique health care solution. >> canada has this health care system that i as a vermonter >> canada has this health care system that i as a vermonter would like to

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staying ahead in a constantly evolving world. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. that's the value of performance. doubt after competing court rulings over subsidies for those who cannot afford to buy insurance. meanwhile the state of vermont

is planning on going further and setting up a government-run single payer system similar to that of its next-door neighbor canada generating a passionate debate as kevin tibbles found in this week's "meeting america." >> reporter: as the sun comes up in burlington, vermonters awake to a battle over whether their state can afford to push into uncharted waters and go further than obama care. vermont's democratic state government says it can deliver health care more efficiently and for less to every one of its 600,000 residents equally, all paid for with tax dollars to the tune of some $2 billion a year. many say taxes here could double. >> they are outrageous the increases that are needed. >> reporter: doctor's bills would go to the state government essentially eliminating the need for people to purchase private

insurance. a solution to america's health care crisis or the road to bankruptcy for vermont? we've decided to travel north through the green mountain state to where the united states nestles up to canada, where its citizens have had government health care for decades. derby line's relationship with neighboring stance says quebec is so close the haskell-free library straddles the line. >> they have a health care system i would like to have and we're this close. >> you're excited about that. >> i am. >> vermonter jerry snyder who has had as high as a $5,000 deductible for his health care was recently given a pacemaker. he says too many of his neighbors don't have health insurance because of the cost, even with the affordable care act. >> when we're worrying, when we're stressed, when we're pug

things off, where is the health in that? >> reporter: but local pharmacist buzz roy is more than a little skeptical. >> i'm frightened by it. it has a potential to bankrupt the state and everybody is going to move out. >> reporter: roy isn't sold on the canadian system his friends on the other side wouldn't dream of giving up. >> there are long waits for surgery. there are long waits to see the general practitioner. the wheels are falling off. >> reporter: as he travels the tranquil paths of his maple sugar farm stephen wheeler worries. >> i'm over here hoping beyond all hope they do it and get it right. it's a little scary. >> wow, what's that? >> that's maple dressing. >> reporter: stephen and his family turn out everything maple. >> i'm putting my gloves on. >> grab the next bottle. you really need to bottle it. >> you're getting tense. you have to be relaxed. >> reporter: health care that covers everyone is a panacea

steve supports but worries about the cost and politics. >> we're putting health care in the hands of a very select few people. if politics gets in the way enough, they can negatively impact my future. >> the newspaper says the single payer system still has many hurdles to overcome. >> they will get permission from the federal government. the government in vermont hopes to move quickly because right now he's got a friendly administration to work with and nobody knows what's going to happen in 2016. >> in derby line they have lived side by side for generations with their neighbors to the north. when it comes to government-run health care, will it be allowed to cross the border? for "meet the press," kevin tibbles. >> when we come back here, the big question that will be driving the conversation this big question that will be driving the conversation this week, "the new york times" bsome cool things to pass onto dyour kids: your super heroes. week, "the new york times" your fashion sense. your love of reading. your uncanny ability to

find parking spots. your fear of people who are different? not so much, the more you know.

>> before the big question and end note in a discussion about gaza we asked a spokesman about this video which israel claims showed rockets being fired by hamas from a u.n. school in gaza. this is shot by israeli government. that's their claim. the u.n. has reviewed it, tells us they have confirmed, in their view, the video does not show rockets being fired from u.n. administrative school in gaza, so this is a back and forth we are not able to settle at this point. now to this week's big question. should marijuana be legal in the united states? the big question will be a big debate this week. we talked about the merits of the statement. just prediction wise, do you think it's moving in that direction? >> everybody says that. if you look over history, the regulation of things like opiates, smoking, public drunkenness, it's ebbed and

flowed a lot. it's not always allow freedom. sometimes there's restrictions. you can't smoke the way you used to, use opiates the way you used to, public drunkenness much less acceptable. >> move forward, a prohibition in place for those over 21, for example. >> possibly. i think one of the things about this debate is what we know is true about a prosecution, there's a great deal of racial disparities between blacks and whites and class disparities. that's one of the interesting ways you're going to have a lot of strange bed fellows around this issue. >> you've talked about it before. republicans not totally against it. find the big question and weigh in on the debate on our facebook page. that is all for today. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

good morning. coming up on "early today" -- severe weather across much of the country including a weak tornado in tennessee that packed a big punch. a rare lightning storm at california's famed venice beach. one person is dead and more than a dozen injured. the deadly ebola virus in west africa is now taking a toll on health care workers on the front line. plus, this year's class inducted into the baseball hall of fame. jeff gordon's record-breaking day at the brickyard 400. and it is granny to the rescue during a jewelry store heist. it's monday, july 28th. "early today" starts right now. good morning. i'm dara brown.