another shoulder. that's all for now. i'm lester holt, thanks for joining us. next on "meet the press." as president obama vacations on martha's vineyard, the dog days of summer have turned into a new phase of america's war in iraq. u.s. air strikes now targeting isis militants. how does the u.s. avoid in a country that was stable when they left. plus, hillary clinton weighs in. exclusive new details on how she's distancing herself from president obama's foreign policy. and impeachment talk is here in d.c. once again. two key players in the fight over the impeachment of president clinton. newt gingrich and former clinton lawyer greg craig will discuss whether the legal maneuvering

against president obama will work or whether it's all politics. >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with david gregory. president obama warning against a quick fix, limited u.s. air strikes have yet to solve the critical situation in northern iraq for thousands of christians who remain surrounded and in fear of their lives. the iraqi government claims 500 have been killed. the isis fight including many women and children buried alive. the u.s. is also determined to stop the militants from capturing the city of irbil in the kurdish area of northern iraq. home to hundreds of american personnel. fighters for the islamic state are in control of several key cities. joined now by chief pentagon correspondent who has an in-depth look at why the president started air strikes now and whether they'll be successful. good morning. >> good morning, david.

at this very moment last week, nobody at the white house or the pentagon for that matter expected american war planes to be launching air strikes in iraq within the next few days, but according to the u.s. military officials, that rapid and alarming advance by those islamic rebels, the u.s. could no longer ignore it. sending the generals back to the war room and u.s. war fighters back to iraq. >> isis has easily stormed through iraq for the past eight months terrorizing their enemies, forcing religious conversions and slaughtering those who resist their rule and religion. but president obama waited to intervene militarily until this week when the extremist group threatened to topple the kurdish capital irbil. but why now? when isis took mosul in june, the president sent 300 american troops to support and advise the iraqi military, but not to fight. >> i think we always have to

guard against. american and combat troops are not going to be fighting in iraq again. >> since then, the militants have gone on a rampage, taking iraq's largest christian town earlier this month. seizing the mosul dam, key to iraq's infrastructure and routing the kurdish peshmerga. when thousands were forced to flee for their lives with no food or water to escape the brutality, it forced the president's hand and gave him the opening he needed. now, any u.s. military intervention would be framed in part as a humanitarian operation. >> and i believe the united states of america cannot turn a blind eye. >> it was the most immediate objective. >> the security forces have up until now proven themselves to be effective despite a lot of american training which leads us with the kurds. >> and the kurds have proven to be a loyal ally to the united

states. >> too much was at stake to let the region fall without a fight. with little support from nato allies from military action, the u.s. is going it alone in an open-ended operation. >> this is going to be a long-term project. >> but critics say the current u.s. strategy is all wrong. >> we need to arm the kurds and let them protect themselves and stop trying to hold together an iraq that is already disintegrated. >> and the president acknowledged saturday that any substantial progress against isis may hinge on bringing them down not just in iraq, but in syria, as well. and while american air strikes may keep irbil safer, they will not stop isis. the outlook may be grim for a long time to come. >> president obama has vowed he would not send ground troops back to iraq but acknowledged

yesterday the u.s. military will be engaged in that war for some time to come. and as we heard him a moment ago for what he calls that long-term project, david. >> thanks so much this morning. i'm joined now by democratic assistant majority leader of illinois, a member of the foreign relations committee. welcome. >> thanks, david. >> you heard jim's reporting there and the goals here protecting the kurdish territory, protecting, really, the integrity of iraq and american personnel on the ground. all of those goals, so important, why are you already talking about limits to this operation? >> because only iraq can save iraq. the president has stepped in because of this threat in genocide, i support that. bringing food and water to these people dying on that mountain top, of course the united states should do that. and when it comes to the kurds, they have been the adults in this neighborhood, the grown-ups. and i think we ought to help them preserve their capital

against this isis invasion. and we also want to make certain that the americans that are on the ground are protected. the bottom line is this. there's so much we can do to help the iraqis help themselves. ultima ultimately, they have to save their own country. >> this is a terror state, cast off by al qaeda because this group was considered too extreme. is the problem that the obama administration wanting to be something other than president bush, got out of the business of confronting terrorism on a big global scale and just dealt with it in a more limited way? is it an underreaction to the terrorist threat? >> they invited us to leave in iraq. the president was negotiating after president george bush had this timetable for withdrawal, president obama was trying to negotiate -- >> i'm talking about the terrorist threat. i'm talking about fighting terrorism. the obama team said we are not in the business of a global fight against terror. we're fighting al qaeda in

limited forms. this is a big, expansive terrorist threat that has amassed on his watch. >> there's no question that this isis threat in syria and iraq is growing and troublesome. the big question is what can the united states do to stop it. if iraquis come together, al maliki put in power someone in power with the shias and kurds, perhaps they can do it themselves. we cannot send the troops. we must not send the troops. >> isn't it galling to you, a united states senator that we are targeting assets in their control, america military hardware they stole and left behind because we got out of iraq? >> how many times has this happened in history? the united states with the best military in the world goes in and fights the war, leaves behind equipment and ordnance and finds it used against it in the next conflict? this is not new. it reflects the reality of war

today and reflects limitations when it comes to the fight against terrorism. we need to make certain. many argue we should be in every theater in every war, that is not the united states role. we need to be certain what we doha surgical precision to it and a clear goal of success. >> if this doesn't work, the goals that have been spelled out, which is preventing genocide, stopping isis, protecting kurds and american personnel, if an air campaign of some duration doesn't work, what do you believe, senator durbin, is america's responsibility to protect the threats. >> first to protect the americans on the ground, number one. to protect american interest in the region. that means, of course, our friends who are nearby neighbors of this disintegrating chaotic situation. >> what do you do if it doesn't work with a limited air campaign. >> i can tell you this. escalating it is not in the cards. neither american people or congress are in the business of wanting to escalate this conflict beyond where it is today.

i think the president has made it clear this is a limited strike. he has, i believe, most congressional support for that at this moment. to go beyond it's really a challenge. >> i'm going to leave it there. senator durbin, thank you, as always, for your views. >> member of the house homeland security member, congressman, welcome. let me challenge you in a different way. >> sure. >> those who would argue, conservatives, republicans, others, that the president has underestimated this, only using limited action to fight this threat, what more can be done, as the president says, than just keep a lid on this problem and all of these threats by the united states? >> first of all, david, this is not just iraq. isis is a direct threat to the united states of america. what dick durbin just said and what president obama has said is really a shameful abdication of american leadership. we can't wait for iraqi parliament to fight isis. every day that goes by they build up a caliphate. they are more powerful now than al qaeda was on 9/11.

dick durbin says we're not going to do this, not going to do that. i want to hear what he says when they attack us in the united states. i lost hundreds of constituents on 9/11. i never want to do that again. we see this coming. for the president to say we're doing airstrikes, not doing anything else. we're not going to use american combat troops, not going to do this, not going to do that. what kind of leadership is that. you should never let the enemy know what you're going it to do. >> let's talk about the leadership you would provide. these goals are not produced by an airstrike of some duration, what would you call for america to do? >> first of all, we take nothing off the table. start off with massive aircraft. doing them from aircraft carriers are limiting them. we should use bases in the air with much more sustained attacks. we should be aggressively arming the kurds. the president says once there's a unity government in iraq, we will fight alongside and work with the iraqi army, start doing that now.

why wait months and months before the iraqi government is back in place? every day that goes by, isis builds up strength. whatever you do as commander in chief, you never, ever tell the enemy what you're not going to do. we do what we have to do. >> they say, wait a minute, we invade the country, took over the country, occupied the country. we had massive troop levels, armaments, military hardware used by isis now. this is iraq's responsibility. why can't or why won't iraq deal with this threat that is a grave threat to its future. >> first of all, put this in perspective. what was done in iraq as president obama and vice president biden said turned out to be a significant achievement a great achievement. iraq was stable. iraq was a unified government. president obama with drew american troops. our troops embedded with iraqi troops were taken away, that's when the iraqi army started to disintegrate. we lost al maliki and with drew,

that's when it started no reason iraq wouldn't work. the president, he started this. he started this downfall in 2011 with direct withdrawal of american troops. so as far as the weapons being turned over, that's a terrible failure by maliki. but the fact is because we're mad at maliki, didn't do his job we're going to sit back and let isis attack the united states. david, they had ten times, twenty types more money than al qaeda had, more weapons. isis has hundreds of foreign fighters available to come to the united states to attack us. when the president says, tries to plame it on the intelligence community they didn't tell him, he was saying months ago that isis was going to move to iraq. fallujah fell months ago. all talked about was ending war in iraq. all he ended was american influence in iraq. that he a failure and on his hands. and for him to -- what a week later we're going to attack this, we're not going to

do that. can you imagine winston churchill or harry truman. >> you're saying u.s. troops on the ground to defeat isis because that is the ultimate goal? >> i am saying we should do whatever we have to do. people say americans want troops on the ground. my constituents don't want a couple hundred people killed by an attack from isis. let's set up argument have to be troops on the ground. entire weight of american military, plus work with the kurds, plus provide weaponry with the kurds who have been good fighters. no one more loyal than kurds. and why wit for iraqi government in place. the president says there is possible military action with the government, why wait for that, let's start now. >> all right. congressman peter king, thank you for your views this morning. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we want a little more depth on the situation in iraq. i'm joined by michael leiter, nbc national security analyst, former director of counter-terrorism. robin wright, author of "rock

the casbah," jeffrey goldberg. exclusive interview with hillary clinton on syria, terrorism and leadership matt world which we'll get to in just a minute. i'm trying to make sense of all this. there's layers to it. michael, i really want people to understand what we're up against with isis. >> this is not just a normal terrorist group. this is a terrorist army that now controls land. i think this would be clear if they kept their old name. this is al qaeda in iraq, which has become islamist state in iraq and syria. this is now the biggest terrorist organization we've ever seen with the most money getting more and more recruits. they are obviously threatening iraq but also serious threats to the stability of our neighbor, the neighbors in jordan and intelligence community believes both isis and iraq and syria and other elements of the opposition in syria are absolutely looking to attack the west. western operatives in iraq, western operatives in syria who can travel easily back to europe and back to the u.s. homeland. that's the homeland terrorist

threat people are most concerned with. >> jeffrey, what are we fighting for now in iraq? >> what are we fighting for in iraq? we're fighting mainly to keep isis from spreading. i'd have to agree with that. that's the problem. as hillary clinton says they never stay where they are. groups expand in nature. they want to go further than they are. a, we're fighting -- if we are, indeed, fighting, we're fighting from spilling over borders. we're also fighting for kurds. the president is hesitant to say that. they are our key ally in that part of the world and they are in trouble. if i fall, i'd have more trouble because isis expands into their space. then humanitarian picture. we have a selective outrage about humanitarian problems in the middle east. >> right. >> how about the president back in 2007 said it's not as if based on humanitarian reasons we're going to send troops to the congo. >> this is a problem all presidents face. how do you pick the people?

in this case you can make a good argument we stayed on the sidelines in syria for years where 170,000 people killed. we're saving these people in iraq. it's a devilish problem, i'll admit that. >> robin, i don't know that everybody understands when we talk about a sunni, shia split, that is what's happening here, what has given space for isis to grow, like fuel to a forest fire. it keeps attracting more fighters and more energy because these are disaffected sunnis from syria to iraq. >> absolutely. the sectarian problem is one we've seen across the middle east. it's beginning to redefine borders that shaped that region for century. this is not the only place we're likely to see this. it plays out, remember, in 2006 when u.s. was debating sending in the surge, one of the questions was can you achieve a military goal, but the separate political goal at the same time.

joint chiefs of staff say we can push back what was then al qaeda. the question was can you solve problem, can you get shia government to embrace sunnis in a way they will feel contained? sure enough we send in 30,000 additional troops. we achieved military objectives but we never solved those political objectives of the problem is that the core of this conflict is not the yazidis, can they in a modern state come to terms with each other in a way that inclusive an just. >> isn't the problem here, jeff, the president is playing catchup? this is a president who is determined to leave iraq. he's right the status of forces agreement got u.s. troops out. there was no -- you went from president bush dealing with maliki in iraq directly. then the new president comes in back of the hand to iraq. did we waste the influence that we could have had on this

government to try to prevent the creation of this vacuum isis is now filling? >> he's right to argue ultimately solution is an iraqi solution. if iraqis can't pull it together, then there's not much the u.s. can do. on the other hand, yes, there are ways to intervene early in this process that probably would have helped the iraqis not only fight isis but try to pull together some kind of coalition that works. >> your thoughts on this? >> well, i think, first of all, this is not an iraq problem, there's not a syria problem, it is both. there is no border anymore. >> now it becomes a terrorism problem. >> absolutely. it's a terrorism problem, a regional problem. we can stop -- militarily we can stop them from taking over irbil. but that is minor. you're still going to have isis controlled caliphate. we have to address this in larger ways. as jeffrey said, iraqis are key to the situation. we can't solve it without them. they can't solve it without us either. >> there's obviously a political

dimension as there's always is, not just for now but in the 2016 context. you you interviewed hillary clinton, talked about all these issues, including syria. she disagreed with the administration wanted to support syrian rebel. here is what she told you in the interview in the atlantic this morning. i know the failure to help build up a credible fighting force of the people who were the originators of the protests against assad, there were islamists, there were secularists, there was everything in the middle. the failure to do that left a big vacuum which the jihadis have now filled. that's the most criticism of the president she works for we ever heard. >> that's pretty blunt. i think this week she feels, and people around her, supporters of hillary and intervention feel like she has been vindicate bid events. it's impossible to know, of course it's impossible to know if u.s. intervention in syria -- >> the president says it's a fantasy.

>> hillary clinton says it's not a fantasy. you'll never know, they are counter factuals you can break your head over. on the other hand, it's pretty obvious staying on the sidelines allowed isis to fill a vacuum. i think what she's saying there is reasonable analysis. and you know, obviously these are questions going forward that she's going -- she's obviously beginning the process of maybe distancing herself from some of the policies she disagreed with. in this interview with me, i think she went a little bit further than she usually has. >> that is interesting. it is interesting now because we're looking at a 2016 race where republicans say, see, we've lost american leadership in the world, which is what president obama campaigned on as well. we always react to the last person in power. the line against obama will be underreaction to these threats. >> yes. the interesting thing, he's the fourth president to be involved in iraq.

when you look back at the record of what it took to -- when we engaged last time, the first bush administration dropped 265,000 bombs on iraq. president clinton in a four-day period dropped 600 bombs, 400 missiles. second president bush used 30,000 bombs. the idea that a few 500 pound bombs are going to make a difference, i think we have crossed a threshold when it comes to our involvement. this is not something that's going to last a few weeks, a few months. we're back in. i think also we've crossed a threshold when it comes to what the islamic state sees as our role in the region. the great danger is this becomes the mobilizing, rallying cry to draw thousands of other not only arabs and muslims to the cause but western as well. >> they wouldn't be up to this, had the united states not had a presence in the region. it's not as if these were good boys and girls on the sidelines and america came and decided to be bad people.

>> remember, there was no al qaeda in iraq before the u.s. intervention, no hezbollah in lebanon before the israeli invasion. sometimes unintended consequences when invading -- >> please remember 9/11 attacks were not caused by 2003 -- >> the final threat from isis you look at as a counter-terrorism expert that plays out over the short-term and longer term. >> an american that goes to syria, iraq, trains, gets experience on weapons, comes back to the united states. we didn't know they were there and they set off improvised explosive devices in washington, or the u.s. that's a real threat. >> thank you so much for your perspective. coming up here, u.s. so divided. we'll take you to one major city where even crossing the street can take you from republican to democratic territory. >> everybody is united in support of the green bay packers.

it's when we get to part partisan politics that these divisions become deep. >> our political roundtable, chuck todd, andrea michelle, congresswoman donna edwards weighing in. plus, are republicans about to do what they did to bill clinton and try to impeach president obama? newt gingrich and lawyer craig here to discuss the legal battles against president obama. "meet the press" is brought to you by boeing. where the drive to build something better inspires us every day. [ male announcer ] ours was the first modern airliner, revolutionary by every standard. and that became our passion. to always build something better, airplanes that fly cleaner and farther on less fuel. that redefine comfort and connect the world like never before. after all, you can't turn dreams into airplanes unless your passion for innovation is nonstop.

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you're shopping for something great. learn more at buypowercard.com we are back. it is august. that means there's plenty of news to discuss. anybody who covers news knows that august is the most busy time of the year. our roundtable is here to discuss a lot going on. our political director chuck todd, donna edwards democratic congresswoman, chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. my question for the table is are we closer to the events in iraq identifying what is the true obama doctrine. told "new york times" the following. obama made clear that he is only going to involve america more deeply in places like the middle east to the extent the different communities there agree to an inclusive politics of no victor, no vanquished. did we learn something here? >> i think we learned a lot.

what we learned is this contrast between barack obama and hillary clinton in her interview with jeff goldberg. how do you say we have a humanitarian mission in iraq with yazidis and not syrians where 170,000 people are there. that's what hillary clinton would say to jeff goldberg. how do you say it's fantasy with barack obama and hillary clinton lays out a completely different and escalating differentiation between her and barack obama. >> here is the big criticism, rich lowery. i expect you would agree with this criticism. this is a reaction to president bush. president obama said we're not going to be in a war against terrorism where war, something very specific, now he faces something quite vast. >> this is a great thing. obviously he wouldn't be president of the united states if it wasn't for his opposition of the iraq war. here it is iraq his view of how it should work is the day. involvement in the middle east

generally, thought there were all these ready alternatives to military force. all that was exaggerated or frankly wrong. that's why you have isis -- >> you have a politically vulnerable president on vacation today in martha's vineyard with a lot of people saying, as they did with president bush when he went away to vacation in iraq. you're checked out here when the world is going up in flames. look at the poll, not just the approval rating 40%, 54% disapproval. overall approval 40%, handling the economy, only 42% approval. handling a foreign policy 36% approval. >> first half of the presidency that was always his strength. handling foreign policy, did better than overall approval now worse. he's in an odd political box. he's giving the country the foreign policy they want. the country wants less intervention. the country wants less of these wars. the country wants to retreat. this is this isolationist streak

in the country, all these things. he's giving them the foreign policy. it's a very poll perfect foreign policy he's doing. it's seen as less popular, less stable because it looks as if he's not leading, events are leading him. the country is reacting personally to him. he's like, where is the leadership, what's going on here? you don't seem to have -- >> the flip side of that, this is pragmatism. rather than rushing to do something that may be counterproductive. >> i think that's true. the president in his statements with tom frieden probably indicated his reticent because he recognizes there is no pretty cal solution in iraq. he also knows in order to defeat isis or put a stamp on them, he has to consolidate that political power on the ground.

it's a recognition kurds, sun sunnis and shia are on the same page politically, then they stand the better chance of using the american power. in using american power -- looks we have selection of a prime minister, the selection of a president. we're working -- i think we're closer to having a political solution where maliki is not in charge of things. >> the president didn't want to be involved in this political influence game. he shied away from doing it in iraq. >> this is the same of the situation. obama never ended the war in iraq. he abandoned the war in iraq right at the time we achieved fragile stability he might maintain -- >> the iraqi government did not -- the iraqi government did not want the united states to stay in iraq. let's be really clear about that. even now we're at the invitation. >> the president ideologically did not want.

>> this was not an administration to be eager, you don't want strategic forces agreement. the original question is what did we learn about the doctrine. i've been trying to figure out this man's doctrine for six years. he doesn't have one. he ran with a wink and a nod this was going to be a george h.w. bush foreign policy, stability and diplomacy first. yet he has been pulled in different directions. his instinct is very george w. bush like, democracy, freedom. no winners and losers. so look at the way he intervened early in the arab spring. it's almost like he pushes and pulls democracy first versus stability first. he goes back and forth and messed around with democracy in egypt, didn't work, in libya, didn't work. he admits now.

will now he's trying stability first. >> tactically hostages, endless negotiations to get maliki out. the only way is wait forever, and is to permit isis to do what it has done. >> and the president -- >> and to say he didn't have intelligence. this is not a hard target. this is irbil. we have people there. the fact is, there was intelligence. to say they are shocked by peshmerga on saturday night is a farce. the white house wasn't listening. >> even if everyone with the best intentions prevails in baghdad, they're still going to need massive help from the united states. you read best reporting what happened when we're negotiating with iraqis, whether there's a resill yal force, there's zero interest in the administration cutting that deal. he bragged about how he ended the war because we completely eliminated our involvement in iraq and turned out -- >> i want a campaign ad for re-election. that was the number one highlight. >> let's turn back to domestic politics. iraq's politics are tough.

ours are just as tough in many ways. on the issue of administration, executive power, this is an issue with rand paul in iowa, confronted at lunch by self-described dreamer. somebody able to come in, child of illegal immigrants who was here as part of the dream act, or speculative order rather. this is that confrontation. >> i am actually a dreamer myself and i'm originally from mexico but i've been raised here. i graduated from arizona state university. and i know you want to get rid of it, i want to give opportunity if you want to get rid of it. >> that is a striking political moment. this is a serious issue. this is political theater, which has a place in politics. here was rand paul not a conversation i want to be part of.

>> unfailing political instin s instincts. why he's a serious contender. these so-called dreamers are most sympathetic subset in the illegal population. they were the first people i'd amnesty by law if we had a workable system in force. that's not an excuse for doing it lawlessly like the president did. what he did was a manage net for the border crisis. the signal sent south of the border, you're young, you get here illegally -- >> i want others to talk about it, gets to the bigger issue in the impeachment of president obama. the signs are that president obama is going to proceed with a massive unilateral amnesty that will affect one of the most important legislative goals without legislate your. it will provoke major reaction and at the very least call for calls for his impeachment. but for the cynics at the white house, this appears to be not a bug, but a feature. >> rand paul demonstrated you

can't run on wanting to be an inclusive republican party and run from immigration and he did just that. >> let's talk about the divide in the country. you go around the country and talk about it. unhappiness reflected in the numbers. "wall street journal" found 7% of voters are dissatisfied with the political system. one big example is in the milwaukee area as kevin tibbles found this week in meeting america. >> on a gorgeous summer evening, in wisconsin, the local high schoolers may be dancing in the streets. but the politics here are anything but a walk in the park. >> everybody is united in support of the green bay packers. it's when we get to partisan politics these divisions become deep. >> when charles franklin

conducted a poll for the marquette university law school, he found a state so politically entrenched, democrats and republicans don't even live in the same neighborhoods anymore. >> it changes dramatically from deep blue to deep red right at the county lines and leaps out at you. >> here in milwaukee, there's a dividing line. one side of the street republican, the other democrat. within the city, 63% give president obama the thumbs-up. in the suburbs it's 64% thumb's down. and the republican governor scott walker enjoys 63% approval in the suburbs and 61% disapproval in the city. neighbors worlds apart. in the city at glorious malone's specialty meat company started by her mother in the kitchen. >> three at a time. >> daphne malone jones watched a business grow by word of mouth.

>> it's so delicious. >> when partisan divisions within the beltway spread, she said it's bad for the business of nation building. >> how do we come together from both sides. so we meet in the middle and accomplish the task. >> back at suburban falls, a.j.'s owner has a rule behind the bar. >> don't talk about religion, don't talk about politics. >> patrons, on the other hand, will discuss the political deep freeze. >> it seems to me years ago you can have a conversation about politics with somebody that was different than you and today you can't. everybody is so hard core in what they believe. they are so set in their ways. i'm that way, also. i had to put up with obama two terms now. i'm not a fan of the health care act. >> while some in the suburbs support suing the president over his handling of the affordable care act. city leader clarence montgomery calls it an unhealthy

distraction. >> good governance and what they are doing as far as this lawsuit is concerned is an oxymoron. it's easier to say no than sit down and say how can we find a yes. >> what would it take? >> this won't change until it becomes electorally destructive to one party or perhaps both. >> reporter: until then the political peaks and valleys will likely keep the two neighborhoods apart. for "meet the press," kevin tibbles. >> at least they are still dancing in milwaukee. chuck, i thought that was really -- it totally becomes electorally destructive for both sides. >> that's what's happened here. we don't have an electoral system where swing voters matter. they don't matter. we know what the middle wants.

until you have candidates that feel as if they have to move away from their base in a general election more often or they will lose. if that's gone, that intent is not there, you get this. in the friedman interview, talk about foreign policy, president saying our system of government in some ways is worse than some of the stuff he's seeing. that quite the shot at his opposition. >> i think there could be a revulsion, a reaction against the do-nothing congress with, you know, apologies -- i know. the republican leaders, whatever. but the do nothing congress, the ineffective white house leadership, to sort of washington writ large. and i think there are going to be people staying home in masses, which is really upsetting to anyone that cares about democracy.

or perhaps an outpouring of throw the bums out. >> the idea that we face big challenges and that our system, entire system of government is not up to the challenges we face. that's daunting, frustrating and beyond. demoralizing. >> our system of government is meant, designed to make it hard to do big things. you only do big things if there's a national consensus or one party controls legislative and executive. that's relatively rare. if you think things are poisonous and divided now. wait until president obama does unilateral amnesty he's talking about. much, much worse after that. it would be a stark hijacking of the legislative functioning with malice aforethought. >> that's an exaggeration. look, i think people out there vote for candidates who speak to their needs, make a difference in their lives. i think any candidate running for office now who is authentic,

who says i'm on your side. this is what i want to do to help you out, those candidates are going to win. those will be people who then reflect -- >> i'm going to leave it there. the prediction and this question what comes next is where we'll go next in the program. thank you so much. how the political system unraveled, politics of impeachment played on both side. i make a lot of purchases for my business. and i get a lot in return with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards, even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding.

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we are back. congress might be out for the summer but the battle lines have been drawn between house republicans and president obama. they filed suit against president obama. there has been talk of impeachment of the president on both sides. president obama's first counsel, a member of president clinton's defense team and newt gingrich, speaker of the house before president clinton was impeached. first an analysis whether the lawsuit against the president or the possibility of impeachment have any legal merit. >> forty years ago, richard nixon became the first u.s. president to resign after a house committee voted to impeach him. now there's talk of it again, this time against president obama. >> what he's engaged in are impeachable offenses. they include fraud on the

american people. >> does any of it amount to high crimes and misdemeanors, constitution's grounds for impeachment. >> this president has about as much chance of being impeached as being elected next pontiff. right now he has not committed any impeachable offense that i can see. >> republican leaders insist they have no interest in impeachment. but in a legal long shot, the house voted to sue the president over his order delaying for a year the requirement that businesses provide employee health insurance. the suit will come to the federal court at the foot of capitol hill but judges are reluctant to referee fights between congress and white house. the suit will have to overcome a legal obstacle that could stop it at the door. the supreme court tossedous lawsuits in the past ruling those who sue must have a personal stake in the lawsuit, a claim they are harmed in a way no one else is. another problem, there's a new house every two years and it's

the previous one that passed obama care. >> if nanny pelosi wanted to sue on behalf of that house, that might be another question. i think it still would be tough but some say more plausible. >> some say the courts should step in to remostly fair boundary lines. >> when the courts remove themselves with the fights they leave the policies with negative acts we see all the time. >> reporter: if the lawsuit is heard, it might not be over until after president obama leaves office. for "meet the press," pete williams, nbc news, washington. >> greg craig and newt gingrich are here. welcome, both. i want to tell you about politics. on the law, you heard the roundtable if the president takes action unilaterally with executive power on an attempt to deal with illegal immigration, providing a path to citizenship for a large group of people, that the response will be furious. that is a legal response or political response?

>> i think political rather than legal observation. i do think the question of impeachment boils down to whether the politics will change dramatically over the next few months. one of the things that might change the politics is what was identified. if the president takes action on immigration that the majority of the american people agree with, you might have a change in the impeachment to prompt that. another thing this might happen, if the senate gets captured by the republican party in november, that might change chemistry and politics. >> is there an evolution, newt gingrich, of what we think of as the utility, the role of impeachment as we think about president nixon to clinton? talk about it with bush? >> we often had one or two or three members of the party saying we ought to impeach the president of the other party. that's not new.

if you google impeachment suggestions, there are a lot of them. the challenge is very different. the president -- you ran into this yourself on the advice on guantanamo. the president would like to have closed guantanamo. it's one of his highest priorities. he still hasn't closed guantanamo. because in our system there are larger realities that shape these things. this president's worst issue is immigration. he's at 68% disapproval. if he comes in around labor day with some grand scheme by executive order, the right thing for republicans to do is pass a bill in the house, taunt to get through the senate, say to american people you want to stick with venezuelan style anything i want as presidency, or two back to the constitution, then in january go back to the senate and republican house just cuts off the money. you don't have to impeach a president to control him, just cut off the money. >> aren't we at a point in politics, the argument will go

both ways, who contributed more republicans or democrats, efforts to devittize presidents that go back in recent times, certainly happened to ushb colin, president obama, that impeachment is discussed more as a means of recall than it is the legal action it was intended to be. >> i disagree with you. i think impeachment provisions in the constitution were politically intended. they were intended to remove a president who was abusing the powers of the presidency. the legal process by which it is done is quasi legal. primarily and fundamentally a political process. that's why i don't think you'll be able to organize a serious impeachment effort over the objections of the american people. that's what they tried to do in 1998 and the american people punished the republican party in the midterm elections in november 1998. >> don't you want to pull some

republicans aside and say please tell me you're not thinking this. >> every republican i talk to, with a handful of fringe figures, every republican i talk to know it's a dumb idea. the people who most want an impeachment fight are president and their team. they raise money off the word impeachment, their base. like lucy and football. the president would love for us to be that dumb. if he does do something around labor day they will pass a bill repudiating it in the house overnight. >> do you agree cynical the white house how they have used impeachment talk politically. >> you can't ask their attorney that. >> a moment of candor he buckles. >> hillary's radical candor. >> you'll not be surprised to learn that democrats would be deeply suspicious of a republican controlled house and a republican controlled senate in the last term of a second

term president. it's been done once before. it can be done again. so i don't think it's entirely cynical. but i've got to say my e-mails are filled up with money to fight off impeachment is quite true. >> any legal action goes nowhere. not just impeachment. >> the crowd management, crowd control tradition. >> the right fight will come in january if the republicans get the senate and right fight over money. totally legitimate thing for congress to say to the president. you won't be able to enforce this. no money will be allocated for it. that is at the core of the american constitutional decision. >> just quickly before we go, with your on the defense team for john hinckley, jr. it's come up against, been ruled a homicide. what is your reaction to that and where does that go? >> well, i'm not surprised. first of all, we mourn the death of jim brady. he was an extraordinary man and great american leader who contributed a lot to our public

life and we're sad he's gone. probably there is much to be said that the contributing factor with the headwind he suffered. so i can't say there's anything unrelated to that. i can't change the notion that it's a homicide. the idea of retrying john hinckley after a three and a half week trial where he was found not guilty by reason of insanity on the assault of brady, shouldn't happen. >> greg krarks newt gingrich, thank you both very much. the big question of the week we'll be talking about as the week wears on, the isis threat in iraq. is president obama doing enough. you can find our big question and weigh in on the debate on our facebook page. that is all for today. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

. thousands turned out for a candle light vigil for an 18-year-old shot and killed by a police officer. tensions erupted into anger which led to looting, vandalized property and a major police presence. fighting continues in northern iraq. isis in two towns and targets of u.s. bombings having an impact. and is rory mcilroy the new tiger woods? and more fallout from the tony stewart collision that killed a young driver. gas prices down 19 cents. and turtle power rules the weekend. it's monday, august 11th. "early today" starts right now.