at is right around mid-shin bone. adrianza to retire stratton. >> mike: they were looking for just a hit or two late. >> jon: and now kyle skip worth will come up. >> mike: and you see a right handed submarine guy and the question is can you get out lucky? normally your fastball will run away your right-handed sinker baller, your submarine guy, and your breaking ball will be flat. >> jon: no what you are you calling -- what kind of a guy is he? >> mike: a submariny guy.

>> jon: now that is inside baseball talk. >> mike: no i'm really opening up the book right here. >> jon: submariny guys. a submariner is too boring. >> jon: a submariny. >> mike: they are freakish. >> jon: quisenberry was one. and he was one of the best closers. >> mike: they have one in the hall of fame. abernathy is in the hall of fame. >> jon: he was around in the 60s and 70s. that one had good delivery. 2-2. i remember 14, 15 years ago the d'backs had kim. >> mike: he was nasty. he would throw mid-90s around there. >> jon: and he would throw a rising slider. it was a nightmare.

especially for a right-handed hitter. and that is cut foul. into the seats just in front of us. four runs in for the reds here in the ninth. the giants went ahead in the fifth and led 4-1 into the ninth inning. all of the runs charged to the record of hunter strickland. 3-2 the count. kyle skillworth up for the first time. and broken bat. this is a real tough play. and dropped at first by brandon hicks. i don't know if they would have gotten it if he held it.

but i think they would have liked to found out. >> mike: there is only two things that can put that action on a ball. a jam shot from a submariney guy or a lob wedge. because that went over the head of rogers and it died. had adrianza been able to make this play, it would have been remarkable. and to hold it i mean, he makes the play. >> jon: hicks, who is not ordinarily a first baseman and that ball just dropped out of the webbing of the glove. and i think ordinarily you expect your first baseman to make that play. >> mike: yeah you do. i know right now skipper, his hands are burning. that did not feel good. >> jon: the reds only had two hits in this game until the ninth inning. did they score that as a hit? they did score it as a hit.

if you are talking about whether it should be an error on the -- on the shortstop, i could see calling it a hit. but i think in the dugout they feel like hicks should have held onto it. >> mike: well he probably feels like he should hold on to. >> jon: that is a lot different than a first baseman's glove too. the guy with not a lot of experience over there. but i guess by definition if your -- even if you are supposed to catch those little short hops over there, if it is in the dirt, that takes out of the realm of ordinary effort. >> mike: well the short of the short hop, that is for the first baseman -- when you get a short hop and it comes up high or above those are more difficult.

especially into your back hand. so a ball that is short hop and to you -- you think you think you should come up with it. >> jon: so the man who started off this inning, chad wal eck now here he is five runs later up again in the ninth inning. 6-4, the reds are leading. tyler rogers. so that -- that play by skipper, he got credit for a hit and a run batted in. dominguez scored on that play and hicks could not come up with at at -- with it at first. >> mike: this is a tough situation. you are a young player and you are trying to make an impression and you have to hit off a guy like this. >> jon: heading for third and out, is skipworth and that is how at long last the giants get

out of the inning. last of the ninth the giants are trailing 6-4.

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6-4, cincinnati in the bottom half of the 9th inning. a 5-run ninth inning. the giants will try to come back and close it out and win it for the home-town 12, 000 here in attendance. tim adelman. 3-9 on the season and they moved him up they like his stuff and his makeup. we'll get a chance to see him for the first time. >> jon: hicks leads off against him. giants are down by two runs. sort of a disastrous top of the ninth inning. as disastrous as a spring training game can get.

>> mike: i'm telling you, that is more than 60 miles per hour. >> jon: he's showing me nothing. he just lobbed that one in there at 60. come on. and we better send some wd-40 down to our radio -- radar gun. something is stuck. >> mike: we need new batteries. >> jon: there we go. that is 90. i think the first two pitches were like 120 miles per hour. that radar gun could not handle it. that is a strike at the knees. >> mike: he's big guy. 65'5" 6'5" 6'5" 225. >> jon: blew right by him.

>> mike: you throw a fastball by hicks, that is good. and that and hitting clayton kershaw curveballs that is what he does best. >> jon: 3-2 the count. and right back to adelman. one away. well, it was a home run over at camelback ranch against kershaw last year that helped get him on the 25-man roster to start the season and then sure enough he hit another one against kershaw when it counted in the regular season games. and true to the giants he got off to a great start last year. and bran on hicks was a great reason why they did. and perez into corner. fair ball. he can run fast.

he'll stop at second as selske got it quickly back to the infield. >> mike: what we were talking about with regard to perez, giants want to see that aggressive style on the first pitch. they've seen him take a lot of first fastball pitches and they want him to be ready to gear up and go. and adelman is not even putting a whole lot of location on it. right now all of the evidence favors the pitcher. a lot of wind behind adelman and he's rearing back with a two-run lead and this is what he needs to do more of. >> mike: and now hector sanchez as the pinch-hitter for the giants. switch-hitter batting left-handed. he got the change-up. 0-1. fair ball. >> mike: hector is not thinking fastball on that first pitch. and that's the beauty of the

change-up. >> jon: matt duffy is on deck. the giants are trailing by 2 here in the ninth. 1 out, one at second. 0-2. >> mike: backed it up. change-up change-up. and think you'll see a lot of change-ups from adelman to left-handed hitters. up until that pitch. i think sanchez is trying to score and now he makes an adjustment. wants a base hit up the middle. and satton throws it out. two down. we'll have more baseball from the cactus league on television next thursday and friday. next thursday night, the giants and the a's, the bay area battle

here on comcast sportsnet bay area. and one week from, the giants and the dodgers here. 7:00 on thursday and friday. comcast on thursday and nbc bay area on friday. duffy up, in the last of the ninth. and mike and i will be on the radio both tomorrow and sunday from down here. tomorrow from tempe the giants with tim lincecum getting starter and on saturday bumgarner will go against the angels here. and that is about 1:00 on the knbr giants radio sunday and monday for that matter as well. a ball and a strike to matt duffy. and it is 2-1.

duffy out in his other at-bat in this game. he's had a .370 batting average, three doubles and a triple and a homer. >> mike: we know matt duffy. we know the error that started that inning and easing about it. a very competitive guy. he's thinking about it a little more because of the error. >> jon: 3-1 the count to him. duffy, who hit .332 in double-a ball last year, getting the call up to the big leagues. and so that is an excellent pitch right on the outside of the knees. not a good pitch to hit. and that is in there.

base hit. matt duffy drops it in front of selske, and scoring is perez. and it is 6-5, cincinnati. with adrianza coming up. >> mike: and you want an example why bruce bochy love this is kid and that type of at-bat right here. knowing what is going on in the mind of an error that makes an error that leads an inning. he extends the game, those are type of at-bats that managers remember. good at-bat. >> jon: sads 0 for 2 and two walk in this game and a steal. he's gone the distance. the reds out in front here in the last of the 9th. adam duvall out on deck.

throw to first, diving safely. >> mike: just don't get picked off, kid. that would not be good. all of the good will from that base hit will be forgotten. >> jon: we're just ecstatically happy for you at this point. that could change. in for a strike. 2-1. and back to the bag safely. they don't want hick taming liberties or even stealing second base. he's the possible tie run a

steal would be a big play right here. >> mike: how can he get a lot of help. he's pretty quick with that ball. >> jon: so not easy to get a jump if you are trying to steal a bag. >> mike: it would all have to be perfect. maybe a good pitch to go on. technically an off-speed pitch and bounce a couple of times at home plate. 3-2. well he'll be off and running with this pitch now. >> mike: he better get a jump, you bet. and they are not showing a whole lot of stuff in the outfield. >> jon: there goes duffy and a

foul high and well back out of play. and that wind, that wind is just pouring into the ballpark. >> mike: you will see the wind come out of the northeast, you don't see that very often. that is way unusual. a pitcher's wind. >> jon: duffy runs, right to the second baseman, satton has it and the ball game is over. and for the giants, a very nice game until the ninth inning when the reds score five and they win it. for more watch comcast sportsnet coming up at 10:30. for mike krukow this is jon miller thanks for tuning in. we hope you enjoyed the telecast, good night from the valley of the sun. the giants beaten by the reds,

6-5. of don's brand of faith. a mother should be at home with her kids. >> i was really pretty frustrated that she had them over in daycare and that she was working full-time. >> reporter: mh-mm. >> i didn't like it. >> but of course, it wasn't the only thing he didn't like about rachel's job. there was also "him". >> the first thought i had was, you know, "wow, what a beautiful woman." and i still remember what she was wearing. i remember the way her hair was. >> his name is james white. former-marine. gun enthusiast. airpark handyman. >> she was just the most perfectly nice, most beautiful woman i've ever met. i couldn't get her off my mind. >> intoxicated by a married woman. well, no good can come of that. >> coming up.

the attraction was mutual and the fact they were both married was just one problem. another was soon to arrive. >> how did she feel about carrying todd's baby? >> when "dateline" continues. e cash card. the only card that lets you earn cash back twice on every purchase with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay. with two ways to earn, it makes a lot of other cards seem one-sided.

service in the military as so many americans have come to know, can form a person. as it did james white. >> i was a marine for life. it never leaves you. >> reporter: once a marine, always a marine, they say. and james white loved everything about the corps. >> i miss the marine corps very much. >> reporter: though not so much his next job as a mississippi deputy sheriff. what was it you didn't like about it? >> i don't like seeing human suffering on a day to day basis. >> reporter: so, after a failed marriage and with his young daughter in toe, he moved back to the place he started out, northern california. that little girl, katelynn white

is all grown up now. >> we're more best friends than father and daughter. we fight like siblings, and we're just -- we -- we're more focused on having fun and not really caring about what other people think. >> reporter: james and katelynn set up house together here in the foothills of the sierra nevada mountains, coincidentally, just a few miles from rachel and todd winkler's airpark. james started a handyman business and again, pure coincidence, got some jobs at the airpark. >> we all know what the ar-15 is we seem them we love them. >> reporter: he also started a web-site called "ammosmith. com." it's not so much about guns as it is about the craft of creating custom ammunition. >> we have an automatic pistol that shoots a rimmed revolver cartridge. >> reporter: and that was his life in the spring of 2010, a nicely varied little business. a second marriage, that was not going terribly well, oh, and he

had a secret mad crush on the beautiful young woman who managed the airpark. rachell winkler. >> and then one day she called me into her office. this is in june, beginning of june of 2010. she said, "have a seat." and i said, "okay." i thought i was in trouble. and she leaned over from her chair and she grabbed my hand and says, "james, i got something i really need to tell you." i thought i was, like, "you're fired." [ laughter ] no, she said, "i've fallen hopelessly in love with you, and i don't know what to do about it." >> reporter: what was it like to hear that? >> it was a huge relief. >> reporter: relief? >> yeah. >> reporter: because you were in love with her. >> i was already in love with her at the time, but i couldn't tell her. i didn't feel that i should tell her. you know, i wouldn't know how she would react. i'd rather have her as my friend than have her as nothing at all. >> reporter: so having left artist tim to marry ex-fighter pilot todd, rachel now launched

into an affair with ex-marine james. this, by the way, wasn't one of those sneak off into a closet and steal a kiss kind of affairs. with todd living and working in the san francisco bay area during the week james and rachel were together almost constantly. >> we tried to spend as much as time as possible we could together. >> reporter: what'd it feel like when you did? >> it felt like we were family, felt like we were one -- one heartbeat. you know, our hearts were intertwined together like i can't describe. indescribable love, never loved someone so intensely in my life. >> reporter: their children were soon in on the secret. katelynn was beguiled by rachel. >> you could be talking to her, like we're talking, and she would make you feel like the most important human being on this earth. >> reporter: how did that make you feel? >> special. loved.

i could open up to her. >> reporter: if todd suspected anything, he didn't let on. but rachel's dad, don, began to get a queasy feeling during his visits to the airpark. tell me what you thought about him, at the time. >> he came across as this christian guy. and he -- you know, he's helping rachel. >> reporter: yeah. >> he was helping her around the airport. okay, fine. after about the second time, i said, you know, "is this guy trying to bed you or what's going on?" and she says, "he'd like to. but it's not happening." >> reporter: there were whispers around the neighborhood, too. people do notice things. >> i think we suspected. >> reporter: suspected what? that something was going on? >> that maybe something was going on. >> reporter: 'cause you saw the two of them together a lot, she and james? >> i didn't see them -- as a couple, you know, outwardly as a couple. even though you'd see them together. >> reporter: but rachel and james had more than todd, don and the neighbors to worry about. you were married to somebody else. >> i was. >> reporter: what did you -- what'd you do about that? what'd you think about that? how troublesome was that for you? >> i wanted to get out of that marriage as soon as possible,

because i wanted to be with rachel. >> reporter: so you told your wife? >> no. my wife discovered us, and then we separated. >> reporter: you will perhaps not be surrised to hear that james' wife, angry and betrayed, made a phone call to todd who begged rachel, end it with james. she, in a rush of guilt and shame, agreed. >> she tried to call it off and i tried to call it off. we couldn't stay apart from each other more than two days before we went crazy for each other. >> reporter: how would you try to call it off? what would you do? >> she would say, "i need to work it out with my husband," and i'd say, "i need to work it out with my wife. we can't talk to each other." two days later she'd text me, said, "i love you and i miss you." and i said, "i love you and miss you, too." we had a real strong spiritual bond. >> reporter: and then, all love-sick, they'd sneak off to see each other or leave longing

messages on the phone like this one from rachel. >> one of the great things when you're in love with somebody is that those feelings come to the surface more. your feelings about work, about your heart, about your spirit, about everything. and we -- we can share those with each other, okay? and i love you. take care. bye. >> reporter: during their heart-to-hearts, rachel complained that her todd was not so perfect as people seemed to think. did she lay it on a little thick for the sake of her other man? wouldn't be surprising of course. anyway, james relayed to us what he said she told him that todd was stingy, emotionally distant, that he was so devious, he actually faked having cancer, twice, to avoid deadlines at work. that on a business trip to amsterdam, he feigned some sort of catatonic state the day he

had a presentation due. and worse, as james related rachel's story, todd talked about staging a serious car wreck as a pretext for suing his own company and collecting a big settlement. now, all this may just have been trash talk about the husband whose mere existence was an impediment to their happiness. but, wrapped up in their fog of love, they began talking about running away from it all together. and then, it was just about a year into their affair, oh-oh she was pregnant, with todd's baby. so, did rachel and james end it then? why no. they did not. what did it do to your relationship? >> brought us closer. she said to me, "who in their right mind want to take on a woman with two toddlers and an infant?" i said, "i would, without

hesitation." she started crying and so did i. >> reporter: well, how did she feel about carrying todd's baby? >> she said that the life in her was a gift from god, and no matter who the father was, she's going to love that baby no matter what. because half that baby was her. >> reporter: sure, of course. >> and i told her i would love that boy, and her and her daughters just like my own. >> reporter: but wait a minute. there was, after all, a husband. todd was not about to take this lying down. and sure enough, he recruited a powerful ally. and one tense and anxious day, they braced themselves and set out to confront his wife's lover. and james white was ready for them. >> i had a nine millimeter on me, and i know how to use it extremely well. >> reporter: coming up, witness to a showdown between an angry husband and his wife's pistol-packing lover.

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in this case, her dad was only too happy to help. he did not approve of his daughter's behavior. too much like his own once was. don was a guy carrying his guilt like a cross for years. >> i tried to lead all my children to the love of jesus christ. there was only one major obstacle to that ever occurring in a way that i would be happy with, and that was my hypocrisy. >> what do you mean? >> my hypocrisy, chasing women. blowing my marriage. >> as don tells it, women found his role as an ascended artist appealing. never mind he was a married father of four.

>> that kind of thing destroyed, literally destroyed my family. >> by the time rachel was in middle school, his affairs led to a shattering divorce. >> i think the oh blit racial of the nuclear family had a profound effect on rachel. >> his daughter was in the middle of an affair herself, putting her marriage at risk. >> todd had been calling me, what am i going to do, how am i going to save my marriage. i said if you told him straight up to stay away from your wife until this is worked out? he said no. i said have you thought about that? he says not 'til right now. sounds like a good idea. will you come with me? yeah, i'll go with you. so we drove over there. >> james' daughter indicate lynn sounded the alarm, as he pulled

up to the entrance of james' isolated mountain property. >> we just got done shooting, i hear a car roll up. i was like wow, that sounds like rachel. i see two men walk up the driver way. i was like oh, my god. i ran out, dad, todd is here, so is don. he is like all right, let's get this over with. i grabbed the nine -- i didn't grab the nine, grabbed the m-4. >> she's talking about guns she had at the ready. a nine millimeter pistol and m-4 rifle. and james had a pistol who willholstered as he went out to greet don. >> i had a nine millimeter on me, i know how to use it extremely well. >> here is james' memory of a confrontation so intense, it sounds unreal. as the two men approached the house, they hid behind todd and

rachel's children. >> he had ariel in his arms using her as a human shield, don had his daughter in his arms. >> afraid you were going to shoot them? >> perhaps. >> i can't remember whether or not todd actually went to the door with the kid or i went to the door or whatever, but he was a human shield. he was going to stop the bullets, right? >> that's kind of scary. >> yeah, it is scary. >> todd was holding ariel, don was holding alex. todd came up and looked just a wreck. >> todd confronted me, said rachel and i aren't divorced yet, i would appreciate if you would stay away from her. >> and? >> no. >> you said no. >> i said no. >> there was a pause. if something was going to happen, this would be the moment. >> and then he turns to me and he goes, "hi katelynn." i was like, "get off this property." >> reporter: and suddenly, it was over. todd and don and the kids got back into the land cruiser and drove off. what was the feeling like as this was going on? >> the feeling for me was, "god,

i hope that-- this clears the air." i think -- you know, he -- he's asked him to stay away so maybe he'll stay away and maybe they can figure out what to do. >> reporter: was it a civilized conversation? >> yes. yes, very. >> reporter: they didn't yell at each other? >> no. >> reporter: didn't stare daggers -- >> calm. >> reporter: at each -- >> nothing, zippo. i didn't like the fact that here's a marriage in trouble. and there's -- guys will prey on that, you know? if he's a gentleman, he says, "i'll wait in the wings. and if this flies, fine." but -- you know, he didn't. >> reporter: no. apparently, nothing could keep the lovers apart. james e-mailed rachel. >> hey, my love. i miss you something awfully bad. i've be crying on and off since sunday. i'm dying inside. my heart is shattered. i love you endlessly my sweet love." no this wasn't over. not the affair.

not the marriage, either.. and not the confrontation. something was coming. watch out. >> 9-1-1, what's your emergency? >> i'm calling to report a fatality. >> where did this occur? >> it's in the cameron park air park. coming up, who had been killed. >> i get a phone call from a screaming, irrational voice on the other end. >> and who was the killer? when "dateline" continues. [ male announcer ] even ragu users a. chose prego traditional over ragu traditional. prego?! but i buy

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oh so peaceful in the airpark that last sunday of february 2012. todd and rachel winkler's marital issues did not noticeably ruffle the surface of normal suburban life. a neighbor bumped into todd that afternoon. >> he stopped and talked to us for, you know, a couple a minutes and, you know, wished us well and kept going. he was pushing the two strollers with all three kids and he didn't look particularly cheerful. >> reporter: todd had no way of knowing that sunday afternoon that rachel was back at james' mountain house, double-checking

her divorce application. >> she finished the paperwork and i'm going to file it the next morning. >> reporter: you're continuing the relationship. she is filling out divorce papers. he's trying to block her. she's determined to do it. >> uh-huh. she turned to me that day, she say, "you know what, james? whether you're in the picture or not, i'm divorcing todd. i want out." >> reporter: whether you're in the picture or not? but was there some doubt about that? >> no. she said the reason why she wants to be with me is because she wanted to be with me, not because she had to be with me. >> reporter: i'm trying to imagine what you were feeling like. >> i was elated. we were finally going to be able to start the life together we've talked about and dreamed about and wanted together for so long. >> reporter: rachel headed home to tell todd they were history, that she was leaving him for the man she loved. evening fell. it was sunday night. no one who drove past the winkler's home in the gathering dark would have noticed anything untoward. but come monday morning it was a day unlike any the airpark community had ever seen.

>> 911, what's your emergency? >> i'm calling to report a fatality. >> where did this occur? >> it's in the cameron park air park. my understanding, it was a domestic -- >> it was just so surreal. it almost -- it seemed like a dream. >> reporter: what was going on? the neighbors watching anxiously from their windows didn't know, of course. >> i was in my yard and saw the sheriff's department pulling into the neighbor next door, between our house and the winkler's house, and taking kind of tactical positions, donning flak jackets and pulling out ar-15s. >> there were five sheriffs in the backyard with their guns drawn facing todd's house. >> reporter: what happened next floored marion cockerell. >> and i saw todd walking backwards across the street. >> stop right there. turn around. put your hands on top of your head. drop down to your knees. keep your hand on top of your head. you understand me? >> yes, i do. >> who else is inside the house? >> there's no one else inside the house, sir. >> and where's your wife?

>> my wife is inside the house. >> you said nobody else was inside, though. >> my wife is dead. >> reporter: how could it be? rachel winkler was just 37-years-old, with those three little children to whom she meant the whole world. >> where is your wife? >> she's in -- when you enter the house, you turn to the right. the first bedroom on your right. >> you sure she's dead? >> i'm positive. >> how can you be -- how are you sure? >> no pulse, no breathing. >> reporter: amid the chaos, frantic calls, one of the neighbors reached rachel's father. >> and i get a phone call from a screaming, irrational voice on the other end. i said, "is it rachel?" "yes, it's rachel." i said, i have a question for you." "is there a yellow ribbon around the property?" "yes." "is there a big white van in front of the house?" "yes." >> reporter: don was in the middle of moving. the movers tried to calm him down. >> and the guys says, "we don't know that she's dead." i said, "count on it, he killed her." and i got there and, you know, she was gone. >> reporter: he was right to begin with.

rachel was dead. the horrific news spread. >> i got a call from a friend and i said, "it can't be." and the next thing i knew, i woke up on the floor. >> reporter: you fainted? >> i completely blacked out, hit the floor. so i called the sheriff's department and asked them if they knew what was going on. and they said just stay right where you're at. >> reporter: james' daughter katelynn got a message at school. >> i walk outside, and i call a family friend, and he goes, "are you sitting down? i think you need to sit down, katelynn." i was like, "what's going on?" and all i remember is just dropping to the ground. >> reporter: rachel's friend shannon couldn't believe what she read online. >> i found out through facebook. i was scrolling and saw someone

post something, "r.i.p. rachel." >> reporter: all right. >> and i was like, "what the hell is going on?" so then i called her younger brother, and he said somebody came into her house and murdered her. and i said, "what do you mean somebody came into her house and murdered her?" >> reporter: coming up -- what happened in that house? an eyewitness account from todd. >> i was like oh, my god, get the children out of here. >> and what does this box have to do with a long ago fire and death on a dark mountain? yeah, but when i slipped a disk he paid my claim before i knew it. ahh! so he had your back? yep. in just one day, we approve and pay. one day pay, only from aflac. [duck snoring]

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>> stop right there. turn around. put your hands on top of your head. drop down to your knees. keep your hand on top of your head. you understand me? >> yes, i do. >> reporter: the scene that played out in front of the todd and rachel winkler's home in the airpark that monday morning, february 27, 2012, grew more bizarre by the moment. as neighbor marion cockrell watched the police surround todd, he saw something quite incomprehensible. >> they handcuffed him and took him off and we didn't know what was going on. >> reporter: todd, under arrest? charged with murder for killing rachel. what about her lover, the man

with all the guns? no, it was todd in handcuffs. the investigators disappeared into the house and found a bloody crime scene. and rachel winkler, dead in her baby's bedroom. they found the couple's three young children safe and sound across the street at a neighbor's house. todd had dropped them off there before the police arrived. soon, todd himself was sitting in an interview room at the sheriff's department. where he admitted, yes, he killed rachel. but, he said, he had no choice. and then he told the police a harrowing story of rage and violence and self-defense. the trouble began the night before, sunday night, he said, as he was preparing to leave early the next morning for work. rachel told him straight out, she was leaving him for james. >> and she'd go back to the arms of james white. >> reporter: and then, a few

hours later, 3:30 monday morning when todd went into the baby's room where rachel had taken to sleeping, they argued, bitterly about custody of the children. >> i said, "i'm not going to agree to you having the kids up here and having primary custody on that. going to fight you on this." and, she said, "no, you know, i'm looking to have my boyfriend get rid of you." her boyfriend is a big gun collector. >> reporter: as todd told it, when rachel said that, when she threatened to send james white to get rid of him, whatever that meant, he overreacted and punched rachel. >> where did you hit her? >> i hit her right by the face. >> after she had told you basically she was going to have this, her boyfriend take care of you. >> yeah, yeah. >> reporter: todd said he tried

to apologize. >> and i'm rubbing her back saying, "i'm sorry, you know, i'm just so sorry, there's not -- i'm sorry." >> reporter: but then, he said, rachel turned around and attacked him with a deadly weapon. >> reporter: she was coming at me with a vee of scissors. >> uh-huh. >> and i got a hold of them. and we had a struggle on the bed and rolled off onto the bed. >> uh-huh. >> and got into this struggle over the scissors. i took some cuts just on my hands trying to get them away from her. >> reporter: they wrestled on the bedroom floor, he said. just a couple of feet from the crib where 7-month old alex was sleeping. and, overweight and out-of-shape, said todd, he was fighting for his life with his much fitter wife. >> it was a long, long, long protracted struggle. >> uh-huh. >> i don't know how long, but it was a long time. she's a very strong girl. >> uh-huh. >> she's an extremely strong girl. and she had me on the bottom.

and she was on top of me. like, back and forth between bottom and top in this struggle over the scissors. >> reporter: then, he said, he finally overpowered her, got control of those scissors. >> i was able to get them turned around onto her. >> uh-huh. >> and give her some jabs. she was injured at this point, but probably not seriously. >> uh-huh. >> i poked her in the eye really hard and got her to break free. >> reporter: he retreated, he said, as quick as he could. >> and i got up and got out of there and then ran to my car. got to my car and thought, get out of here. i thought, "oh, my god. i didn't realize. get the children, get the children out here." >> reporter: his two daughters were in their room, but baby alex was with the wounded rachel. standing there in the garage, he said, he made a decision. he had to protect his children. he would go back in and rescue

them from rachel. >> i grabbed my motorcycle jacket at that point. put it on, zipped it up. it's got pads over here for, like, breaking down the door. >> uh-huh. >> and i rushed into the room. >> reporter: she must have been waiting, said todd, to pounce. he was, he told police, soon in a fight to the death to save his own life. i tripped and fell forward when i rushed into the room. she kicked me in the face and then we got into -- >> uh-huh. >> -- another subsequent struggle on the floor. and once i, you know, started to get the upper hand, i just, i pushed the scissors in as far as i could. >> and where was that, do you recall? >> in her throat. in her throat.

i don't know how long. quite a long time. >> okay, and why did you hold her there like that with the scissors in? >> i knew if i'd let go, i mean, she still had her hand on these scissors. i was also fearing for, you know, she was, it was probably kill or be killed kind of situation. >> reporter: eventually todd got to his feet. he prepared a bottle for crying alex, he said. and he worried. >> and i just started just pacing around the house just saying, "god, i just killed their mother." >> reporter: by-and-by, ariel and eva woke up. todd kept them out of the room where their mom lay dead. then, he said, he cleaned up the house as well as he could. and at 10:26 am, 7 hours after rachel died, he phoned a lawyer friend and asked him to inform the authorities. >> tell me exactly what you heard from your neighbor. >> what i'm willing to tell you is that i'm an attorney. i received a call notifying me of the situation. >> reporter: about the same

time, 10:30 am, todd took his children to the neighbor's house. >> i said, "there's been --" i didn't tell them rachel was dead. i said, "we have a very serious situation across the street. can you please watch the kids." >> reporter: murder investigations are of course based on more than just witness statements. the csi team rushed over to todd and rachel's house and assistant d.a., lisette suder, joined them as they searched and documented the interior of a house that was strangly chaotic. >> reporter: what did it look like? >> the house is well-manicured. minus the fact that there's this yellow crime scene tape up. and then you walk through that and you walk into the doors and the house is in complete disarray. kitchen is completely undone. baseboards missing all over the place. the house is not put together at all. >> reporter: such an odd place. in the garage that doubled as a hangar, investigators found

todd's mustang, rachel's suv, a boat, a bmw motorcycle and parts of a plane todd was refurbishing. back inside the house, in the master bedroom, in a night stand, they found something else, too. something quite unexpected. this blue box. inside? ashes. what? at the bottom of the box was a label that simply said, "cremated remains of catherine lynn winkler." and now, suddenly, there were two mysteries to solve. what really happened in the winkler baby's blood-stained bedroom? and more than a decade and two thousand miles away, what was the ugly truth that burned on the mountainside in georgia? >> coming up, someone was keeping secrets. big secrets. >> we're realizing, wait, there was a former wife? >> and that was just the beginning.

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back to our story, a young woman is dead. he says to save his life, he had to take hers. even though they had been locked in a troubled marriage, her death was a complete shock to everyone who knew them. but there was one more big surprise still to come. here again is keith morrison. >> reporter: when todd winkler was arrested for killing rachel he claimed it was self defense. he told the cops she came after him with those scissors.

he had to protect his children and save himself even if it meant a duel to the death. >> it was probably kill or be killed kind of situation. >> reporter: prosecutor lisette suder listened carefully to todd's version of events. and was skeptical. that's her job, of course. still, no one else in todd's house saw what happened. so there was no one to contradict his story but then the investigators found that box with ashes in it. and the label on the box said, "catherine lynn winkler." >> we're realizing, "wait, there was a former wife?" >> reporter: oh yes there was. todd winkler had been married before. and clearly, his ex-wife was dead. so, what happened to her? no choice, decided prosecutor suder, she would have to find out and that's when she set out to follow a trail that led to a man in georgia, named gerald johnson.

a judge now, but back in 1999, a rookie detective. >> it really shocked me that i was getting a call from california about a case that i had worked in our little gentle town there in white county. >> reporter: had you forgotten all about that case? >> no, sir. i actually -- over the years, i've thought about that case many times. >> reporter: the case, an auto accident in the fall of '99. an accident that killed the first mrs. winkler, cathy. >> it was my father who called me that night and told me that -- that cathy was no longer with us. >> reporter: what was that like for you? >> it hurts. it still hurts. >> reporter: so many years later, charles carlisle still smarts from the loss of his big sister cathy, just never got over it. but then, cathy was also his mentor, his protector perhaps his only true friend. they grew up on mcdill airforce base near tampa, florida charles painfully shy, cathy, outgoing,

strikingly attractive, popular. tanya vanatter and julie lynn cox were school chums. they remember what a knock-out she was but that there was more to her than just that. >> she could have her choice of young men. she was beautiful. >> inside and out. >> it wasn't just her exterior beauty. she was a beautiful girl, but she just had such a sweet, kind, caring personality that it was attractive to everybody. >> reporter: it was a small miracle, perhaps, that she turned out so well, given what was demanded of her, said her friends. >> her mother left when they were young. her grandmother lived with her for a while, but she was the caretaker of her siblings. she had a younger sister and a younger brother, and cathy pretty much mothered them and cared for them. >> she definitely was the mom. >> reporter: except on weekends, when the school chums remember sneaking around the base to get a glimpse of the true stars

among the young men there, no surprise, the macho fighter pilots. >> the man in the uniform. >> yes, that uniform. definitely, the jumpersuit. very hot. >> cathy and i would always joke and say, "do you think you're gonna marry a pilot? wouldn't that be so cool? it's like "top gun," marry a pilot." and of course, she ended up marrying one, so. >> reporter: wasn't a direct route, mind you. first, in her early 20s cathy struck up a serious relationship with a pilot who in the end just couldn't seem to commit. and so, just like rachel, years later in napa, california, cathy was a young woman on the rebound when she met fighter pilot todd. >> where the first one didn't work out or perhaps maybe it didn't work to the way that you wanted it to. and maybe she felt like this was what she needed to do. and todd came into the picture. i think having that pilot probably maybe is what caused her to marry todd. >> reporter: patterns. that time, too, todd was ready to commit.

right away. how long did they date before they got married? >> i wouldn't say it was a very long time at all. >> they got married within weeks of dating. she appeared to be happy, so i didn't question that. she had married her pilot. and so i thought, you know, her fairytale was coming true. >> reporter: the airforce sent todd to japan soon after the wedding. it was an exhilarating time for cathy, getting married, heading off to live in an exotic place. >> cathy was excited to move to japan. and she was going to be an english teacher. >> reporter: and later, after todd left the airforce cathy's friends remember how she was there for him as he tried to figure out what to do next. >> she was very nurturing in the fact that she was supporting him in whatever different career he was going to choose. >> reporter: it was a difficult time for todd. >> we did spend thanksgiving with them one year, and todd had put on a lot of weight. and i know that he wasn't working and he was depressed. >> reporter: but, todd had always had a knack for making money and he figured it out, got

into the booming wi-fi into the booming wi-fi business and pretty soon cathy and todd moved into a big lakeside house in georgia with a boat, fancy cars, and of course an airplane. cathy, always so nurturing, told her friends she was ready to take the next step. >> i remember cathy calling me and telling me that they were living in georgia and that she was excited about it, and that she wanted to have children. so i was excited for her, because i can see her with little kids. >> reporter: but nine years into what looked like a happy marriage children had yet to arrive. and now we know, because of what was in that blue box they never would. time to find out what happened. who knew the discovery in that box would bring investigators all the way across the country to the blue ridge mountains of north georgia, to a campsite, high on a hill.

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>> reporter: white county, georgia. >> it's beautiful, just nature at its best. >> reporter: this is where the blue ridge mountains begin. >> and it's sweet here. it's quite lovely. >> beautiful. >> reporter: a person can find what really matters up here, said mike hodnett and woody depew. up here so far from the raucous urban world are weekends steeped in the peace and beauty of a natural cathedral. >> we'd ride our mountain bikes, go sit in the river, hike, go rappelling. >> most of the time you're just -- you're out there by yourself. and you make your own rules. >> reporter: and at night? >> you can go up to the top of the mountain and you can see a lot of stars you didn't know were there. >> reporter: but down the sides of the mountain, under a thick canopy of leaves -- >> many, many nights it's just pitch black. >> reporter: this is the place, these are the conditions that california prosecutor lisette suder needed to

understand. it was september, 26th 1999, one of those pitch black nights, the night mike and woody lived through one of the strangest experiences of their lives. mike and woody were asleep in separate tents around a common campfire. and both, same moment, were suddenly startled awake. >> i was sleeping in my tent and i heard somebody shouting from the road about 100 yards away, "help, help, help, my wife is dead." >> this is the middle of the night. >> it's the middle of the night. >> and then i kind of was like -- just laid there and i was like, "nah, nah, i didn't just hear that." and then i heard it again. >> reporter: they got up fast and out of the black night. >> some strange man come walking into their campsite going, "oh, help. help me. my wife is dead." >> reporter: the stranger was emotional, distraught, told them he and his wife had been camping a few miles farther up the narrow mountain road. >> he said that he had been stung by a bee and that his wife was rushing him to the hospital.

and he was laying in the back of the truck. he then told us that his wife lost control of the vehicle. >> reporter: and then the pick up went over the edge and tumbled down the ridge, he told them. >> and then, he was thrown out of the back bed of the truck. it just threw him out. and then he was able to walk away. >> reporter: he said it crashed at the bottom and burst into flames with his wife still inside. the man looked disheveled but okay. he wanted to call 9-1-1 but didn't have a cell phone with him. and he wanted to try to find his wife he told them. woody and mike told the stranger he could ride in the bed of their truck, while they drove up the twisting track, looking for the accident site. >> i -- i kept asking, like, "where's the wreck? where's the wreck?" and then after that went on, you know, 20 or 30, 40 seconds, you know, going around different turns and stuff, we finally come around this turn and the whole side of the mountain's on fire.

obviously, we knew we were there. >> it looked like several acres of forest were on fire. >> did it look like it was possible anybody could be alive down there? >> no. >> no. >> reporter: just the same, woody and mike climbed down the steep incline as far as they could. >> i don't see how anybody could've survived that wreck. the cliff, the fire, but i'm still hopeful, okay? i got to do something. >> yeah. >> reporter: but there was no getting near the truck and no sign of a survivor. and then the firefighters came and the emts and, of course, the cops. they too heard the husband's bizarre tale. and they also learned his name was todd winkler. in their report they wrote that when they encountered todd, he was calling out for his wife cathy over and over. cathy, cathy, as if he was hoping she'd come walking out of that burning forest. the patrol deputies called in

the investigators, which is how gerald johnson, a brand new detective at the time, found himself deep in the georgia woods early that autumn morning. >> what happened up there on the hill was -- well, you -- you can describe to me as best you understood at the time what had happened. >> sometime during the night, he had gotten up, according to his statement, to go outside to use the restroom. and as he came back to the tent, he realized that he had been bitten by something or was having some type of reaction, that his throat was closing up and -- >> a sort of anaphylactic shock type reaction? >> well, that -- that's what i described it as. and she takes him out to this toyota pickup, if i remember correctly. he's crawling on his hands and knees at this point and having all these symptoms of some type of allergic reaction. >> reporter: johnson mostly just observed, he said, as the georgia bureau of investigation looked into what happened. but took no action. and eventually, the coroner ruled cathy's death an accident. and then, the life insurance

company did the same. and as the more than half million dollar policy on cathy's life was a double indemnity, it paid double in the case of an accident. todd got close to $1.2 million. and the case was closed. but for the heartbreak, it was julie-lynn who told tanya what happened. >> and she said, "tanya, cathy's dead. she's not alive anymore. she died." i remember falling to the ground and i said, "what do you mean she's dead?" >> reporter: cathy's friend julie-lynn felt not just for herself but for todd, too. >> and i wanted to console him and just let him know that we were there for him, supporting him, anything we could do for him. and he never returned any of my calls. >> reporter: tanya -- tanya tried to call him, too.

for a different reason. >> it just didn't add up. my phone call was strictly to figure out and to pick his brain and ask questions. >> reporter: because, by then, tanya was a cop herself, who knew a little something about suspicious behavior. >> did i think he was going to answer that phone? no, and let me tell you, i tried that phone number numerous times. and after about a month of calling it repeatedly, the phone number was disconnected. >> reporter: she didn't get anywhere. no. but sometimes, maybe, with a little help from curious prosecutor, you get a do-over. >> so, as the years went by, you thought about it? >> oh, yes, sir. >> it bothered you? >> yes. >> so, that must have made that call that you got from california all the more remarkable. >> when -- when i realized what they were asking me about, yes, sir. i thought, "oh, my goodness, what in the world is going on with this case?" coming up.

>> the more we read, the more we realized that this was not an accident. >> so many questions about that long ago case, starting with why was kathy even camping. >> camping? >> kathy was not a camper. >> when "dateline" continues. ..and go. now i enjoy smooth skin every day. new nivea in-shower body lotion in the body lotion aisle. discover card. hey! so i'm looking at my bill and my fico® credit score's on here. we give you your fico® score each month for free! awesomesauce! wow! the only person i know that says that is...lisa? julie?! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score.

reporter: once, when outsiders came to these north georgia mountains and valleys it was to make a movie called 'deliverance'. this time, the visitors were california detectives. here to find out exactly what happened on this mountain path on a dark night more than a decade ago. >> we got all those police reports. >> reporter: out in california, 15 years later, prosecutor lisette suder was convinced. for the sake of her own case, she had to find out what really happened up here on this isolated mountain road in september, 1999. >> what is very important about the georgia case and our case is it goes to his intent in the rachel case. >> reporter: and before long she

knew. this was going to be explosive. the georgia case could be her best evidence in the here and now in california to show that todd winkler was perfectly capable of spousal murder. because she soon believed he had done it before. >> the more we read, the more we realized that this was not an accident. >> reporter: todd's behavior up here on the mountain, said prosecutor suder, was deeply suspect. for one thing, his stories just kept changing with each telling, like the one about where he was sitting in the truck as it headed down the mountain trail, in the passenger seat, holding cathy's hand, as he told the police, or back in the bed of the truck, as the campers insisted he told them. and when the truck went off the road? did he describe being thrown out of the vehicle? >> not to us, but there was another interview. that was done earlier, where i think he described to someone as a twisting and turning motion. but in our interview, what i

recall him sayin' is that when he came to himself, he was layin' on the ground, outside the vehicle. there was a huge fire. and he didn't know where his wife was. so from -- >> reporter: so that he didn't remember the accident at all, in your interview? >> right, right. >> reporter: but apparently he did in some other interview. >> and that's correct. >> reporter: there were differing stories about what sort of bug supposedly bit him. supposedly causing an allergic reaction so bad he had to ask cathy to rush him down the mountain to a hospital. yet, when the cops asked to see the bug bite? >> he didn't know where the bug bite was. didn't know what bit him. >> reporter: didn't know where it was? >> no, sir. >> reporter: something serious enough to give him an allergic reaction that doesn't present anywhere is a bit odd. >> that was a big question in my mind. >> reporter: todd told the cops back then that he had a history of allergic reactions. always carried an epi-pen for emergencies. yet didn't take that to the wilderness that weekend. did that seem strange to you

that he'd go camping without an epipen if he was subject to this sort of thing? >> it seemed strange to me that we were spendin' so much time talkin' about bug bites. it was almost as if we were tryin' to steer away from the real issue, which was a fatality crash involving his wife. >> reporter: it also seemed strange he said that by the time the campers saw todd, he displayed no evidence of an allergic reaction. of course, lisette suder and her people interviewed mike and woody too. and they told her, as they told us, that they never forgot how strangely phony todd seemed when he arrived at their campsite that night. >> he was kind of -- kinda play-sobbing, i would say, you know? it was -- it was some horrible acting going on. >> it wasn't believable. >> reporter: they also wondered why, on a warm southern night, was todd dressed in several layers of heavy clothing? was he protecting himself from a fall he knew he was going to cause? >> he had a lot of extra clothing on. but i also remember he also had a toboggan hat on. >> reporter: the kind you pull

down over your ears. >> the kind -- yes. >> and i'm standin' there in a t-shirt, shorts, and flip flops. >> reporter: also, why did the accident happen on the one spot in the whole drive that offered a long straight drop hundreds of feet into a deep ravine? >> the steepest cliff possible on that road. >> reporter: why did their toyota pick up erupt into flames? that might happen in the movies, but rarely in real life. why did it look like the fire had been burning for a long time? >> it was -- the whole side of the mountain. it was a big mountain. it had to have been burnin' an hour or two. >> yeah, probably. i would think. closer to two. >> reporter: curiosities. why would he bring her up here to the very top of the mountain to go camping it's an hour's drive over a rutted track to the other campers farther down the hill. according to cathy's family she didn't like camping at all. so why would he bring her to the most remote possible place? >> no one camps up there. unless you want to be really

secluded. >> reporter: and that said cathy's brother was not something she would have wanted. did she like to go camping? >> no. she'd rather be in a hotel -- any day over a tent, knowin' my sister. >> reporter: puzzled cathy's friends too. >> i was like, "camping?" >> cathy was not a camper. >> reporter: and there was this -- >> i recall him -- at some point, mr. winkler saying, "do you think i killed my wife?" >> reporter: is that a question an innocent man would ask, johnson wondered? and when the investigator responded. johnson remembered thinking todd's behavior seemed off, inappropriate. >> if i remember correctly, special agent roberts says, "did you?" and then at that point he became very emotional, you know? "oh, i can't believe --" and his body language and his demeanor was just so over the

top. >> reporter: but though they may have had their suspicions back in 1999, suspicion alone didn't make the death of cathy winkler anything but what it was called at the time, an accident. insurance companies investigated and paid out, because they felt that it was a real accident, and the authorities there couldn't show that it wasn't a real accident. so why was it worth you looking at it again? >> well, we knew a lot more about todd winkler at this point. we knew a lot more about how he goes about getting what he wants. learned about cathy winkler's death the more it seemed to her that todd must have planned it all. just as the evidence here in california was telling her that the killing of rachel winkler more than a decade later was a case of history, todd winkler's history, repeating itself. but if she had some crusading idea of finding justice in that old case, and using it to

solidify her own here in california, she'd have persuade a judge, first. coming up. disorder in the court. if you're a free-range chicken you roam free. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. it's what you do. ♪ two wheels a turnin'... ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ba-da-ba-ba-ba ♪ so i got on the plane and thought... yeah!

empty seat next to me. and then i saw him, slowly coming down the aisle. one of those guys who just can't stop talking. i was downloading a movie. i was trying to download a movie. i have verizon. i don't. i get that little spinning wheel. download didn't finish. finished the download. headphones on. and i'm safe. i didn't finish in time. so... many... stories. join us and save without settling on the largest most reliable network. we just adopted two new puppies from petsmart. i'm going to call the yellow one "expressway." we already came up with names for the puppies, mom, they're... i'm gonna call the other one "snake finder." pethood's better with a partner. that's why petsmart has all you need to take care of your kids.

>> reporter: once, a long time ago, this part of california was the epicenter of the gold rush. back then, as legend has it, at least, there was no wait for justice. you committed a crime, the punishment was meted out then and there. but not now. for more than two years after the bloody confrontation in the winkler's nursery, todd waited in jail to be tried for her murder. >> and i just started just pacing around the house just saying, "god, i just killed

their mother." >> reporter: for those two years, todd maintained, as he had from the very beginning, that he killed rachel only to save his own life, to save himself and his children. from jail, he and his family fought a losing battle with rachel's father, don hatfield, who won custody of those children. and here began atoning for the sins of his youth by devoting his life to three little kids, eva, ariel and alex. it was after all that that they held the trial. prosecutor lisette suder intended to portray todd as a manipulative and devious man who murdered not one wife but two. that is if she could persuade a california judge to allow an old georgia case to be dusted off and brought back to life. >> i felt confident that i had the law behind me on that. and i submitted my brief, and i

submitted the legal arguments that supported that. >> reporter: and? she won. and so, in september of 2014, when todd winkler went on trial charged with first-degree murder of second wife rachel, lisette suder could use the georgia story about first wife cathy's death 15 years earlier against him. and the defense? dismissed the georgia case out of hand. irrelevant, said todd's attorney. cathy winkler's death was thoroughly investigated, he said. and it was not ruled a murder, because it was not a murder. >> there's no evidence of anything other than an accident. >> reporter: todd's attorney was able to explain away the things that had raised suspicion. cathy's family was wrong, said the defense. she loved camping. a ranger who saw them making their dinner way up in this remote spot, so far from any other living soul, said they seemed happy. and the insurance money, remember that?

that wasn't motive, just business as usual for a pair of upper-middle class professionals. >> in addition to the insurance policy of about $1.1 million that cathy had at the time of her death on her own life, he had $1.2 million on his own life. >> reporter: no, cathy and todd were a young upwardly mobile couple. life insurance was cheap, easy to get. they both had it. anyway, todd loved cathy. why else would he keep her ashes all these years. cathy's death, said the defense, had nothing whatever to do with the event for which todd was on trial, the death of rachel winkler, and he wasn't guilty in this case either. >> this is not a murder case, ladies and gentlemen. it's a self-defense case, or at most it's a voluntary manslaughter case. >> reporter: there were two good reasons to believe that, said the defense.

reason one, self defense. as todd told the police that very first day -- >> it was probably a kill or be killed kind of situation. >> reporter: he was a good guy in a bad situation, said his attorney. he worked hard and long hours to support rachel. he wanted to make her happy, and he was a good dad. and for that she cheated on him, threatened him and then attacked with those scissors. of course, by that point, todd told the police, she was a very unstable woman. >> started drinking, started binge drinking. i was afraid for the children. she was just spinning into this mental cycle of self-destruction. >> reporter: and then todd's defense revealed this little gem. >> she's signed up for california sweetheart, which is an adult connection kind of -- you can judge for yourselves what it is. >> reporter: married to a man she'd grown to hate, in an affair with a man she was maybe thinking of cheating on, said the defense.

she was conflicted, said todd's attorney. she was telling people she was afraid of todd. and yet she sure didn't act like it here, todd and rachel look happy. >> compare it with this photograph taken in las vegas about just a few days before rachel died. >> reporter: but there was something else, said todd's attorney, and it was reason number two, that rachel's death was not murder. and that was that his client had a psychotic breakdown when rachel attacked him. his ability to understand what he was doing was diminished. why should the jury believe that? well, as you'll remember, rachel herself described todd as unstable at times. and now the defense presented evidence of what they said was his history of psychotic episodes. the first one happened in asia, something like 20 years earlier when todd was married to cathy and was flying with the fighting samurai squadron. he was caught shoplifting from a base px. he claimed amnesia.

so the air force sent him off for psychiatric tests. but then it got even more bizarre, and cathy called her friend tanya. >> she telephoned me saying, "i'm in hawaii. todd had a mental breakdown, and so he's in a psychiatric facility." she had said to me that he escaped and was in the wooded area in hawaii. and for a week or two. and when he finally came out of the woods he said that he was a samurai warrior. >> reporter: back then, after months of psychiatric evaluation, todd was diagnosed with dissociative disorder, a neurosis that warped his view of reality. not exactly what the air force wanted in a fighter pilot. >> and because of events and the determinations by the air force psychiatrists, he was retired medically with a 50% disability. >> reporter: and there was that incident in amsterdam. remember?

rachel told james about it. it happened just before he was due to make an important presentation at a conference. that time he appeared to black out, became catatonic, ended up in the hospital where they found nothing wrong with him and released him. rachel told james he faked the episode. but here at trial, a defense psychiatrist testified todd suffered from real mental issues, dissociative disorder, conversion disorder, which meant he could be violent if he felt he was under attack. and that awful morning? first he told the police she threatened to sic her well-armed boyfriend on him. >> and she said, "no, you know, i'm looking to have my boyfriend get rid of you." >> reporter: and then -- >> she was coming at me with a >> she was coming at me with a v of scissors. >> reporter: rachel's dad, don, and self-described soulmate, james, watched as the defense argued that todd had no choice but to kill the woman they so loved. >> his state of mind is what you

really need to pay careful attention to here. he knows she'll kill him. he knows if he stops, doesn't end it right then, it could end him. >> reporter: all very sad, said the defense, but not murder. and what would prosecutor suder say about that? simple. all that psychiatric stuff, she said, was fakery. todd winkler may have had, or feigned, some disorder that got him out of the air force, she said, but he killed rachel. and it was murder, deliberate and planned, she said, committed by a man practiced at getting away with things. >> good morning, ladies and gentlemen. this is the case about a master mind, a manipulator. a murderer. this is a case about todd winkler and how he brutally murdered rachel marie winkler, his wife, mother of his three small children.

>> reporter: todd winkler did not have to fend off a scissor-wielding wife, said prosecutor suder, so it wasn't self-defense. and rachel's death could not be blamed on any mental condition either, any more than the death of another mrs. winkler in those dark woods so long ago. but as she began to tell that part of the story, watch what happened. >> she's found burned to death down a steep embankment where the car went. the car and she burned. and the defendant is very fine with just a few minor scratches on him. >> you are not samurai. >> stop, stop, stop. stop, stop, stop. judge -- >> you do not speak truth. you only want to destroy. you have no bushido. you have no bushido. >> reporter: bailliffs and his lawyer struggled to restrain todd. it looked like the whole trial would be over.

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>> she's found burned to death

down a steep embankment. >> reporter: just as the prosecutor was laying out her case against todd winkler in the killing of his wife, rachel, a sudden, inexplicable outburst from todd. >> you are not samurai. >> stop, stop, stop. stop, stop, stop. >> you do not speak truth. you only want to destroy. you have no bushido. you have no bushido. >> reporter: bushido? in japanese, the "way of the warrior," the honor-based code of conduct of a samauri. why was todd winkler raving about it now? was this another psychotic episode? >> judge, off the bench. stop, stop, stop. >> reporter: of course, the trial came to a screeching halt. a mistrial loomed. >> may we have the courtroom cleared? >> reporter: instead, the judge came down hard on todd. >> if you want to play the game, we'll play it. and we'll just make sure everyone's here, it's safe. you'll have your legs strapped up. and you'll probably have your

arms tied behind your back. that clear? is that what you want? okay. >> reporter: reassured, the judge allowed the prosecutor to continue. >> as i was saying, the defendant's former wife, cathy winkler, went on a camping trip back on september 26th, 1999, with this defendant. she died in a fiery crash. the only witness to the crime was, in fact, this defendant. >> reporter: were there parallels? you bet there were, said the prosecutor. the deaths of cathy and rachel were both cold-blooded, calculated killings. >> he's had, now, two wives where he has been the one who has been the only witness to a crime. >> reporter: but, she said, based on what investigators found, the events at 3:00 in the morning in the california airpark were not so hard to determine. and she prepared the jury. what happened that night was horrific. one, todd opened rachel's laptop

and found the divorce documents she'd been working on with her boyfriend, james. that laptop has disappeared from its usual place in winkler home. two, he grabbed the scissors from a craft box, which was kept on a shelf right above the computer. and three, prosecutor suder -- >> i believe he took a pair of scissors and he went in that room with the intent to kill her. he attacked her while she was sleeping, stabbed her repeatedly in the face and the neck area. and i believe, at that point, he thought he had killed her, and he left her for dead. >> reporter: then, said the prosecutor, as todd prepared to leave the house, he saw a light had been turned on in the baby's room. >> so that's when he then goes, gets his motorcycle jacket on for padding, for protection, bangs in the door, finds her in that corner. >> reporter: cowering? >> cowering. >> reporter: trying to save her own life? >> correct. >> reporter: they knew that rachel spent some time after the

first attack holding her baby. >> baby alex's onesie was examined. and you know that there are drip blood, like being droplet blood, up on top of that onesie. that's how we know that rachel was holding that baby. >> reporter: then todd came back. >> she's in the corner there. she kicks at him. >> reporter: didn't stop him. >> he bear crawls up her body. he takes those scissors, and this ex-fighter pilot jams them into her neck, and he sits there and lays there on top of her while she slowly dies. >> reporter: after that, for seven hours, todd cleaned up, said the prosecutor, then took his kids to the neighbor's house. and then, after dropping the kids at the neighbor's, but before the cops arrived, he took the time to cut his hands, to make it look as if he'd been attacked by rachel. how did they know the cuts were self-inflicted?

the neighbor said his hands weren't cut when he dropped off the kids. and then the prosecutor told the jury about the ashes, cathy winkler's ashes, which rachel discovered months before she was killed. >> and learned how there had been a crash, and he had no injuries and she had died. rachel was upset by this and said, "well, is this how i'm going to turn out?" and this defendant's reply was, "well, you're not going to get in my way, are you?" >> reporter: rachel knew she was in danger, said prosecutor suder, as a doomed young woman had already told her closest friends and family. >> and rachel explained that this defendant said to rachel, "if you divorce me, you will end up like my last wife." she did. >> reporter: after 13 days of testimony the jury got the case. they were out one day. >> we, the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant todd alan winkler

guilty of the crime of first-degree murder. >> reporter: no outburst this time. no breakdown. the former fighter pilot sat quietly and listened. he got 26 years to life. it was over for todd. but not for anyone else. not really. as james white's daughter, katelyn, told us -- >> i was told that monsters don't exist. my parents always told me that. and after going through that trial and seeing what i had to see, i can tell you with absolute certainty that that is 110% false. he is a monster. >> reporter: and rachel's men? we weren't surprised to hear that james has his own idea of what justice might be. did you have any thought about what would happen if the justice system didn't look after todd in a way that seemed reasonable to you? >> he would have been dealt with. >> reporter: by whom?

>> me. >> reporter: you know, they could have put you in prison for life. >> it would have been a one-way mission. he and i are both going to go down together. i'm not going to shoot him. i'm going to kill him with my two bare hands. i'm going to do to him what he did to rachel. >> reporter: tim cherrington, the man who failed to commit and then watched the love of his life go on to her terrible end, has his own way of taking revenge, mostly on himself. kind of a tragic love story from your point of view? >> it is, it is. >> reporter: i mean, this is a woman you could've spent the rest of your life with. >> very, very easily could, yes. i should have pulled the trigger when i had that chance, you know. i blew it. i didn't, you know, give her the ring earlier. >> reporter: well, you're still paying for it, aren't you? >> yeah. yes, i am, yeah. that's a tough one. >> reporter: different kind of thinking across the country, among the friends of that other mrs. winkler, the one whose death on a lonely mountain road, is still officially labelled,

"accident." >> i mean, this is a beautiful woman who gave so much, was so nurturing and caring. i don't feel like there's been justice for cathy. >> i think about cathy's death all the time. >> reporter: about whether she could somehow have done more to prevent a second death, the murder of rachel winkler. >> my heart breaks for those children. i wish i could hug them all and tell that i'm so sorry that i didn't press harder to make them open this case or be that strong person that i was. i apologize. >> reporter: and some day, said don hatfield, he'll find the words to tell the story to rachel's children, ariel, alex and eva. >> this whole story is a mixture of murder and blood and failings and grace and jesus and heaven and god, and so there's some

real craziness to it. but that's the character of my life and some of rachel's life. it's just kind of life in general. >> reporter: in the meantime, he said, he's trying to be the kind of parent he wasn't with his own children, but is now, for rachel. >> i believe it's my destiny to raise them. i intend to do that, you know, with god's help. that's automaker for this -- all for this edition of

he struck the female with a machete that he pull ded out. good evening, it was a rampage. i'm jessica aguirre, raj is off tonight. we begin with the breaking news that a man attacked an tsa agent. this is cell phone video moments af