this sunday, the eyeiran deal, a historic agreement that makes the world safer. >> it is a good deal. a geel thatdeal that meets our core objectives. >> can he sell it to a skeptical congress and allies in the middle east? israel's prime minister will join me live. plus, fight over those so-called religious liberty laws that are splitting the republican party. >> whole lot of republican politicians are terrified. >> 2016 gop hopeful, louisiana's bobby jindal will weigh in. opening day is here. rob manfred and how our national past time is trying to remain part of our national future. and of course, whether pete rose should be allowed into the

hall of fame. i'm chuck todd. joining me to provide insight and analysis this morning are matt bai of yahoo! news helene cooper of "the new york times," i'my walter of the cook political report and perry bacon from nbc news.com. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press." good morning. now comes the hard part the u.s. and its negotiating partners reached an agreement with iran on a framework of a deal to contain iran's nuclear program. not surprisingly the reaction is decidedly mixed. iran's foreign minister got a hero's welcome when he arrived home. but more hawkish elements in each country criticized the deal. hard-liners on iran charge their side gave up too much to placate the united states. and here at home president obama faces a tough task of convincing not just republicans but many democrats that this

deal is better than no agreement at all, which could allow iran to continue its nuclear program without limitations or inspections. one key ally the president has certainly been unable to convince is israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu. he joins me now live from jerusalem. prime minister, happy passover. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. happy holidays to all. >> i will have more than four questions for you i promise you that. let me start with this, which is if this deal -- you were going to be against perhaps any deal that didn't bring iran down to zero centrifuges. why not let this zeal diehl getdeal get implechltim implemented even for six months to see how this is implemented before trying to kill the deal? >> not trying to kill any deal. i'm trying to kill a bad deal. you say it is historic decision, historic deal, could be historically bad deal because it leaves the preeminent terror

state of our time with a vast nuclear infrastructure, and, remember, not one centrifuge is destroyed thousands of centrifuges will be left spinning iranian not a single facility including underground facilities, nuclear facilities as being shut down. this is a deal that leaves iran with the capacity to produce the material for many, many nuclear bombs and it does so by lifting the sanctions pretty much up front so iran will have billions of dollars flown to its coffers, not for schools or hospitals or roads, but to pump up the worldwide terror machine and military machine which is busy conquering the middle east as we speak. the preeminent terror state of our time should not have access to a vast nuclear capability that will ultimately give them nuclear weapons. that's concern for israel, for the region, for the peace of the world. >> let me ask you this, you have a deal that was negotiated by the united states, china russia, britain, france,

germany, all of them on one side of this deal. you're on the other. are you concerned that israel is being isolated from the world community on this issue? >> no, i don't. look, the entire world celebrated the deal with north korea. it was deemed to be a great breakthrough it would break into the program, you to would have inspectors that would do the job. and, of course everybody applauded it. it turned out to be a very, very bad deal. and you know where we are with north korea. i think the same thing would be true in the case of iran, except that iran is a great deal more dangerous than north korea. it is a militant islamic power built on regional domination. bent on world domination. openly says so. they just chanted death to america a few days ago on the streets of tehran. the same streets where they're rejoiceing right now. don't give the preeminent terror state of our time the access to

a nuclear program that could help them make nuclear weapons. it is very bad for all of us. >> well you, in 2012 contemplated a preliminary report that you kind of asked your cabinet for permission to potentially strike iran's nuclear facilities. do you still plan on keeping that option open even if this deal is implemented by the united nations and by the united states? >> chuck i'm the only israeli left standing. i never talked about our military option. but i will say this, i prefer a diplomatic solution. you know why? because for any military option the country that will pay the biggest price is always israel. so we want a diplomatic solution, but a good one one that rolls back iran's nuclear infrastructure and one that ties the final lifting of restrictions on iran's nuclear program with a change of iran's behavior. mainly they stop their aggression in the region, stop the world wide terrorism and stop calling and working for the

annihilation of israel. these are the requirements there is still time to put in place and i'll use whatever means i have including this program to try to persuade people to go for this deal, which is the only one that will give us peace and security. >> would you advise saudi arabia and egypt now to pursue their own nuclear program, given the way this deal looks in your eyes? >> no i wouldn't advise them to do that, chuck, but i think that despite the spoken words there is enormous concern throughout the sunni states in the region and i think one of the unfortunate, even tragic results of this deal, if it goes through, is that it would spark an arms race among the sunni states nuclear arms race in the middle east. and the middle east crisscrossed with nuclear trip wires is a nightmare for the world. i think this deal is a dream deal for iran, and it is a nightmare deal for the world. >> there has been plenty of

reports about israel's nuclear deterrent strategy. do you believe that in an ideal situation no middle eastern country would have nuclear weapons? >> in an ideal situation, it wouldn't have countries seeking to annihilate the state of israel and openly say that. the iran general said that on the eve of the signing or the announcement of this framework in lausanne, the commander of the sources in tehran says the destruction of israel is nonnegotiable. i think the real problem in the middle east is not the democracy of israel that has shown restraint and responsibility but it is the countries like iran that pursue nuclear weapons with the exclusive goal of annihilating us and also ultimately of conquering the middle east and threatening you. that's why they're developing icbns, intercontinental ballistic missiles, that are meant for one purpose only, to carry nuclear payloads to a theater near you.

they're not intended for us. they already have missiles that reach us. they're developing icbms to reach the united states. don't give them these weapons. don't give them nuclear tips nuclear icbms with which they can threaten you. >> sounds like you want congress to kill this deal. sounds like you want the u.s. congress to do everything in their power to kill this deal. is that what you would like them to do? >> i would like the united states and the other members of the p5 plus 1 to get a better deal. there is still time. you can ratchet up the sanctions. abiding sanctions were imposed for first time only in 2012. that got iran within 18 months to the table. once you got to the table instead of ratcheting up the sanctions and the pressures in fact, you reduce the pressure and iran felt no need to make any concessions at all. you have time to insist on a better deal and to ratchet up the pressure. that's the preferable route for all of us. >> i want to ask you a quick question on two state solution

issues. want to read you some sound from denis mcdonough, the white house chief of staff. here is what he said right after your re-election. the word bords of israel and independent palestine should be base on the 1967 line with mutually agreed swaps. each state needs borders and there must be safeguards for israel's security. an occupation that has lasted for almost 50 years must ind and the palestinian people must have the right to live in and govern themselves in their own sovereign state. are you comfortable with the president's chief of staff referring to israel as an occupier? >> well you know, successive israeli governments including my own offered to end this dispute and have -- i have offered to have a demilitarized palestinian state recognize the one and only jewish state. that was and remains my position. what i said was that under the present circumstances, when president abbas not only refuses to recognize israel as the nation state of the jewish people, he embraces, he embraces

hamas and outright calls for our destruction. and when you have every territory that is vacated in the middle east taken over by the forces of militant islam, those led by iran or isis, i think you know that we better make sure that if we want a two-state solution, we don't get the opposite, that is a no-state solution, a no state of israel solution. and that i think, requires that we work closely with our american allies because we both want the same thing, perhaps not exact same borders, but the same principles. i don't want toa binational state. but if a palestinian state is created it should not be used as a platform to anigh litenihilate the one and only jewish state. >> benjamin netanyahu thank you for spending part of your passover holiday with us here on "meet the press." see you soon. >> thank you. i can tell you that those who

work for israel's defense don't have a holiday. >> fair enough. thank you sir. i'm joined by democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, who has been supportive of efforts to reach a deal with iran's senator. welcome back to "meet the press." let me ask you this. you heard prime minister netanyahu not obviously -- he wants to see a better deal. do you believe the united states should be negotiating for a better deal? >> well i think we have a pretty remarkable deal on the table today. if you look at what our parameters were, at the outset for negotiated agreement you see the outlines of them right now. we have increased breakout time to a year. we have significantly rolled back their enrichment capability, we're dismantling the potential plutonium path at iraq and have an inspections regime that is absolutely unprecedented. that will allow us to find a covert program if it exists outside of the known research facilities. the idea that we should just go back to the negotiating table

and put back sanctions into place i think that doesn't understand the reality that with this deal on the table it would have been hard to get our partners especially russia and china to go back to sanctions when most of our objectives were met at the negotiating table. it is easy to say that we just continue to negotiate and effectively sanction iran into submission. i don't think that that is the deal that the rest of our negotiating partners signed up for. and that's the reality that we have to deal with. >> senator what about the prime minister's point and frankly the point of others, we're not asking iran to stop supporting terrorism. we're not asking iran to change its behavior. we're about to hand them more resources and they have been doing nothing arguably but expanding their sphere of influence in the middle east. now you're giving them more money to do that by lifting the sanctions. and we didn't ask for a behavior change on anything other than nuclear inspections. did we just ask for too little? >> well, it is true that this deal doesn't turn iran from a bad guy into a good guy. but it is a little bit rewriting

of history to suggest these negotiations were about all of the other activityies of iran in the region. we can start to lift up the moderate elements, within iran, the internationalists who want them to be sitting as a member of the world community so we can talk about all the other issues. it is also important to point out we have a host of other sanctions that are in place trying to change their behavior on their ballistic missile program, on their human rights violation and on their support for terrorism. those sanctions don't go away. they stay in place and congress and the president reserves the right to increase those sanctions if they continue to undermine stability in the middle east, notwithstanding the progress we're making on the nuclear program. >> so you support, let me get this right, you support potentially increasing sanctions if you connected to their support, say, of the hujis in yemen but pulling back sanctions

that are connected to the nuclear program. >> we have sanctions in place that don't go away that are connected to other activities. i think congress always reserves the right to change our policy vis-a-vis iran if they continue to act in a way that they are and the rest of the region. absolutely we reserve gírour right to continue to try to use whatever leverage we have at our disposal to try to make them a less of an evil within that region. >> okay. but do you want -- as a compromise to get congress to potentially accept this nuclear deal, would you be willing to increase sanctions and other spots in iran to pull back in other places as part of the agreement, not to undermine the president's ability to negotiate this agreement? >> well, i don't know we need to talk about that right now. i think we should get through the nuclear negotiations. i think this will give us an opportunity potentially to talk to the iranians, either directly or through interimmediateries, about solutions to other problems in the region.

you take this issue off of the table, you empower people like rouhani and czarzarif who may want a different role and you may see a pathway to solving some of these other problems and you can do it potentially without new rounds of additional sanctions. >> quickly, on another topic the ranking member of the senate foreign relations committee robert menendez was indicted on corruption charges. he stepped down as ranking member, but "the new york times ," a home newspaper for yourself in connecticut there, has called for senator menendez to resign from the senate completely. do you think senator menendez ought to consider a full resignation? >> i don't. i think our judicial system works in a pretty simple way. you're innocent until proven guilty. he's a respected member of our caucus. he's not going to be the leader of the foreign relations committee any longer but he deserves a chance to be able to have his day in court before he's forced out of the united states senate. >> all right, senator chris

murphy democrat from connecticut thanks for spending part of your easter sunday this morning with us here on "meet the press." >> thanks a lot, chuck. when we come back those religious liberty laws are they about protecting freedom of conscience or more about giving people a license to discriminate? presidential hopeful bobby jindal of louisiana joins me ♪ edward jones. this is shirley speaking. how may i help you? ♪ oh hey, neill, how are you? how was the trip? with nearly 7 million investors he's right here. hold on one sec. you'd expect us to have a highly skilled call center. kevin, neill holley's on line one. ok, great. and we do. it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. e plane and thought... yeah! empty seat next to me. and then i saw him slowly coming down the aisle. one of those guys who just can't stop talking. i was downloading a movie. i was trying to download a movie. i have verizon. i don't. i get that little spinning wheel.

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those were pictures from pope francis, easter mass, attended by thousands of the faithful in vatican city. in honor of easter and passover nerd screen has a bit of a religious theme to it, but you have to go to our website to see the whole thing. we looked at the connection between how often people attend religious services and their political leanings. it is much different than simply doing it by religious denomination. that and more can be found at meet the press.nbc.com. "mee i care deeply about the gulf. i grew up in louisiana. i went to school here. i've been with bp ever since. today, i lead a team that sets our

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and believing that a single life can be made better by millions of others. healthier takes somebody who can power modern health care... by connecting every single part of it. for as the world keeps on searching for healthier... we're here to make healthier happen. optum. healthier is here. this week the debate over so-called religious liberty or freedom legislation in indiana and arkansas marked a new round of the culture wars with liberals, lgbt activists and big business wing of the republican party pitted against evangelical conservatives. this leaves republican hopefuls in a tricky situation. how to satisfy the evangelical base of the party without alienating more socially liberal general election swing voters. >> this bill is bipartisan, it

is received overwhelming support in both houses, it protects religious freedom. >> after a backlash from lgbt activists and business leaders and sports leaders and the public, republican governors in indiana and arkansas signed revised religious freedom legislation into law on thursday. the new language in indiana spells out that the law does not authorize a provider to refuse to offer or provide services on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. arkansas's new legislation mirrors a 1993 federal law signed by bill clinton, and will make it harder for private individuals or businesses to cite religious freedom as a way to avoid providing services for same sex weddings. social conservatives call the compromises a cave. >> it is the worst act of political malfeasance i've seen in my lifetime. >> the hypocrisy from corporate america is amazing to me. >> it is the latest skirmish in a battle between big business and social conservatives that is

exposing fault lines within the republican party. it is also forcing potential 2016 presidential candidates to do a tricky two step avoid alienating evangelicals while also not appearing intolerant and scaring off general election voters. former florida governor jeb bush that two step this week and tripped. on monday, he praised indiana governor mike pence on conservative radio. >> i think once the facts are established, people aren't going to see this as discriminatory at all. >> but by wednesday bush appeared to backpedal telling donors in silicon valley religious freedom is a core value of our country but we shouldn't discriminate based on sexual orientation. so what the state of indiana is going to end up doing is probably get to that place. meanwhile, 2016 hopefuls eager to catch fire among social conservatives are seizing the opportunity to criticize their own party. >> fortune 500, and running shamelessly to endorse the

radical gay marriage agenda over religious liberty -- a whole lot of republican politicians are terrified. >> we have seen a lot of republicans run for the hills when the left comes out and starts to hammer. >> it won't stop until there are no more churches. >> all this is happening as americans grow increasingly comfortable with same sex marriage. the next fight may be in louisiana the 17th state to introduce religious freedom legislation this year. i'm joined now by the republican governor of louisiana, bobby jindal. governor, welcome back to "meet the press." >> chuck thank you for having me back. >> let me ask you this, do you agree with some other social conservatives that you think governors pence and governors hutchinson in arkansas and indiana have essentially caved to too much pressure? >> well chuck i was very worried about the law in indiana. i'm disappointed. let's remember when what this debate was originally all about. this was about business owners that don't want to have to choose between their christian faith their sincerely held

religious beliefs and being able to operate their businesses. now what they don't want is the government to force and participate in wedding ceremonies that conflict their beliefs. they don't want to participate in those ceremonies. i was disappointed you could see christians and their businesses face discrimination in indiana. i hope the legislators will fix that rectify that. it used to be a bipartisan consensus in this country around religious liberty saying that as americans, we don't have to agree with each other but we should respect each other's rights and freedoms and that's what this debate is about, are we going to use government to force people to contradict their own sincerely held beliefs. >> the debate is on freedom and how you conduct yourself in a business. you think it is okay based on religious conviction for a business to deny services to a same sex couple? >> chuck, we're not talking about restaurants denying service to people who want to

come and have dinner. we're not talking about day to day routine commercial transactions, we're talking about a specific example here of business owners, musicians, caterers, who are forced to pay thousands of dollars or close businesses if they don't want to participate in a wedding ceremony that contradicts their wedding beliefs. i think part of the first amendment means we allow individuals to obey their conscience, their religious beliefs. >> as you know this could end up on your desk. state representative mike johnson, in your state filed a bill that will allow private businesses to refuse to recognize same sex marriage, according to the times picayune, should it become legal in indiana, we may find that out in june in the supreme court, the legislation would allow a private company to not offer the same benefits to legally recognized same sex married couples as other married couples. this is beyond just denying services as a business. this would be also denying benefits to an employee who happens to be in a same sex

marriage. can you support a bill that does that? >> let me see the bill actually. our session starts in a couple of weeks. i want to look at the bill. i'm in favor of defending religious liberty. you're raising issues regarding federal employment laws and benefit laws let me look at the details of the bill. i am -- i am in general very supportive of defending religious liberties. we can do that without condoning discrimination. i don't think those two values are mutually exclusive. that's what this debate is about. we can have religious liberty without having discrimination. it is faubl have both. it is desirable to have both in our society. we immediate to remember this is not a new debate. the founding fathers recognize the importance of religious liberty, put it in the first amendment in a constitution they anticipated some conflicts. they came down on the side of religious liberty. religious liberty is why we have the united states. we as a country didn't create religious liberty. religious liberty created our country. >> are you against the local ordinance in new orleans that has a protection for lgbt

citizens and it is from discrimination from housing and employment? >> i don't think certainly there should be discrimination against anybody in housing and employment. that's not what my faith teaches me. i don't think that's appropriate. i think the good news is our society is moving in a direction of more tolerance. my concern about creating special legal protections is historically in our country we have only done that in extraordinary circumstances. and it is not -- it is not evident to me doesn't appear where one of those moments today, i will say this i think that there are many that turn to the heavy hand of government to solve society's problems too easily. i think that instead we need to be working with people in their hearts and minds. i have faith and confidence in the people in america and the people of new orleans and the people of louisiana to not tolerate discrimination to not support businesses that want to support discrimination. so absolutely we need to have a society where we're not discriminating against people. i do think we need to be very careful about creating special

rights. >> so if the supreme court legalizes same sex marriage, you believe these laws it will be legal -- legal in all 50 states come june, perhaps, but you believe these exceptions, businesses should be able to decide whether or not to serve these folks based on their religious convictions? >> well again it not serving. i'm not saying a restaurant should be able to turn away a couple that -- >> that restaurant should not have to cater their wedding. >> if it is a sincerely held religious belief that it offends the owners beliefs to participate in that wedding ceremony, absolutely. i don't think the government should be able to force somebody to contradict their own sincerely held religious beliefs to participate in a wedding ceremony and that used to be a bipartisan consensus. that didn't used to be a bipartisan issue in our country. >> governor jindal, i'll leave that subject there. are you going to wait until after your legislative session to make a final decision on the presidential? >> i am, chuck.

unlike many that are thinking about running, it is not for me just about fund-raisers or consultants or pollsters, i've started thinking and been thinking for last several months about what the next president needs to be doing. i created a policy think tank called america next, putting out detailed policy papers on defense policy on health care reforms, on energy policies, i think we need -- anybody thinking about running for president needs to think about what they need to do. we need big changes in this country. i think i'm the only one thinking about running that has come out with a detailed plan on how to replace and repeal obama care. i think voters are looking for potential candidates to answer the question not just how do you get there what do you do if you got there? >> governor jindal you make that decision, we hope to see you here on "meet the press." happy easter. >> thanks, chuck. happy easter. happy passover. thank you. let's bring in the panel matt bai helene cooper, amy walter perry bacon. what did we learn from the republican party on this issue?

>> lots of nervousness. you saw mike pence, jeb bush, good politicians people who won a lot of elections, all this week had to change and move their position on the issue and jeb bush in 48 hours. you learn the republican party always had the evangelical wing which focuses on abortion, gay marriages, versus the business wing. those groups are usually not in conflict. there is a real conflict this week and you saw the business part of it won and evangelicals are angry, this is a weakening of their movement more broadly. >> amy, i'll tell you, i've been hearing this for some time. they feel lite ofa lot of republicans pay them lip service and when the going gets tough, the first part of the republican constituency gets abandoned is evangelicals. >> ted cruz, you saw his strategy. here is the point. the tipping point has been reached and the tipping point is done, which is this is not an

issue in which republicans can win. they could a few years ago, can't now. even when you look at evangelical younger folks, they have moved on this issue too. so if we took everybody over the age of 50 and just moved them out of this country this wouldn't be an issue at all. even for younger evangelicals. >> there is an idea. matt, i was just going to -- the republican party, though better that they had -- having this debate now than in 2016, obviously. >> that is the definition of the bright side, yes. i agree with amy. i think it was bade weeka bad week for the republican party. i do on the large scale. i can see why it makes sense to go the route he's going, but as amy says this corner -- the republican party where it found itself this week is behind the curve of this society, behind the curve of history. you saw that in the reaction of businesses who came out immediately because they understand where their markets have gone. i think for me political party

to find itself in that position is really problematic at this stage. >> pragmatism versus conviction. the problem is in a primary, those voters want conviction, they don't want pragmatism. >> you raised a perfect point with the primprimary. i think so much of this is about the primary versus the election. you saw a lot of applications spoliticians are more wore bride theryied about the primary than i expected. jeb bush -- >> caveat here, i accused him of flip-flopping their folks pushed back and said wait a minute, had he been allowed to explain himself further on hugh hewitt, he would have provided more context. they don't believe it is a flip-flop as we in the media portrayed it. >> you know how we in the media tend to portray things. >> fair enough. i think the jeb response is telling. you have silicon valley and we know where silicon valley is on this. we know the entire california --

>> there was a time at which, we used to say this at the cook report when dividing the country into blue and red. starbucks america and walmart america have aligned. in the '80s it was democrats behind the curve on cultural and social issues. now it is republicans. they have to balance that. they can, but they got to figure out the right way to do it. >> if you're looking at the poll, the easiest thing do is look at where independents are. the two sides are so polarized, blue and red. when we come back, this easter sunday, cardinal timothy dolan of new york on balancing religio 40% of the streetlights in detroit, at one point, did not work. you had some blocks and you had major thoroughfares and corridors that were just totally pitch black. those things had to change. we wanted to restore our lighting system in the city.

you can have the greatest dreams in the world, but unless you can finance those dreams, it doesn't happen. at the time that the bankruptcy filing was done, the public lighting authority had a hard time of finding a bank. citi did not run away from the table like some other bankers did. citi had the strength to help us go to the credit markets and raise the money. it's a brighter day in detroit. people can see better when they're out doing their tasks, young people are moving back in town the kids are feeling safer while they walk to school. and folks are making investments and the community is moving forward. 40% of the lights were out, but they're not out for long.they're coming back. 73% of americans try... ...to cook healthy meals. yet up to 90% fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more... ...add one a day 50+. complete with key nutrients we may need. plus it supports physical energy with b vitamins. one a day 50+

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and i do. oh, the silent treatment. real mature. so you wanna get out of here? go national. go like a pro. welcome back. earlier this week i sat down with cardinal timothy dolan, the archbishop of new york to talk about the intersection of religion and politics on this easter passover weekend. i began by pointing out a disturbing trend that seems more people are killing or dying in the name of god than at any time in recent memory. >> well i say you're right. and i do think it is worse than it has been in centuries. and i think, to me that only says we need easter more than ever. passover and easter are all about good triumph the goods triumph over bad. life's triumph over death and do

we ever need that. it is an amazingly tragic and poignant scandal that some would claim to use religion in the name of these atrocities. my boss, pope francis, has been extraordinarily articulate in reminding us that anyone who claims to use religion as a cause of hatred and division and bloodshed is perverting the role of religion. religion by definition is about bringing people together, affirming, it is about life it is about friendship, it is about reconciliation. to use religion for anything different than that is simply a perversion. and so religious people are suffering in numbers that we're not used to, and often it is who are perpetrators. people who claim to be acting on behalf of -- >> such a deep faith. in some ways scarily so. is it faith is it passion? >> they have strong conviction, whether it is constant with the

faith they profess, that we know is not truth. especially with the islamic fanatics, temperate voices of islam and thanks be to god there are many would remind them they are not acting loyal to the teachings of the koran. what we say, though? we know from the human experience not just religion, we know that most battles, most bloodshed is caused by things that we feel passionate about. >> what did you think of president obama at the national prayer breakfast when he said this, unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place remember during the crusade and the inquisition people created terrible deeds in the name of christ and in our home country, slavery and jim crow all too often suffered in the name of christ. >> there are some that might have thought his remarks were off the mark. i would simply say as an historian and as a believer, sometimes it is not all that bad to remind ourselfves that we are not free from sin and --

>> you saw it as -- >> as a leader to say that at that time when that was appropriate or not, but i wouldn't say it was wrong. >> this religious freedom debate we're having about religious freedom laws, and you have religious liberty, what does that mean? what should that mean and do you think people are perverting the definition? >> i welcome the fact that religious liberty, the question about religious liberty is in the forefront. we need that. we didn't put it there. we believers didn't put it there. the founders of our nation did. we got to make sure that the rights of conscience and religious ability to publicly lily exercise one's religion is balanced with another good, namely the rights of people not to be discriminated against. boy that's a delicate balance. i'm grateful it has come to the -- that it is in the public eye. i sometimes wish -- whenever you talk, chuck, about a balance, which our constitution is a matter of balance you got to

make sure that we keep that balance together. >> how do you balance religious conviction? >> it is tough to balance religious conviction. it is easy to ignore religious freedom than it is today the more popular issues. so in a way i appreciate the fact that we have political leaders, like governor pence who were saying, whoa wait a minute, without questioning the rights of the gay community, we also have to make sure that the rights of the religious community are protected. i just wish we could do that in a temperate civil way instead of screaming at each other. >> with passover, and easter being so close together -- >> sure. >> -- something extra significant about it? >> it is. it gives it an added wallop. and it gives us more credibility and more reason to celebrate. and it reminds us it is all about the same thing. it is all about winter ending and spring beginning. the death of winter behind us, and the new life of spring ahead

of us, and that god is a god of spring, not winter. and life is always conquered death, hope is going to conquer despair, good is going to conquer bad. that's what passover is all about. that's what easter is all about. that's what jesus was all about. that's what moses was all about. i don't know about you, you spend your life covering the world, i think we need that message more than ever. >> i don't know any better way to end this interview than with that, sir. >> happy easter. happy passover. >> cardinal dolan. cardinal timothy dolan of new york, easily one of the most optimistic people i've ever met. put me in, coach. i'm ready to play today. opening day is tomorrow. opening night is tonight and the new baseball commissioner, rob manfred, is on deck on "meet

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welcome back. that was me with my children harrison and margaret before the washington nationals playoff game last october. that 18th inning bummer. baseball is back and i sat down with rob man ford in just about the coolest place possible even if you're not a yankee fan. i started by asking them about a sport that's thriving on the local level but is increasing as a struggle. let's talk about the challenges that you face. we have talking about the tv ratings and the giants was a world series. it had a rating that was -- that the worst nfl game during the

week would have had a higher rating than the average rating in a world series game what do you do about this? >> well, your're talking of an issue for all. the good news is that in 11 of the markets last year and in the course of is summer baseball was the rated one program. the challenge for us is to make sure that as we move into our post season we don't lose that huge local fan base just because a particular team. >> there's no doubt the local fans are all into the team. when they're out, they tune out. >> one of the things that we're working on is a great example. we're going to try to work with the national broadcast this year to develop the story lines over the course of the year that have the fan interest. >> you said that you're getting the youth game more youth

involved in baseball is a priority for you. if they play they're going follow it. my son is a great example. he plays, and it's a success. >> you're making me happy. >> no if they play they want to imitate and do everything. >> it's interest asking the youth space and we have really studied it and looked hard at it and it's a competitive environment. i am 56 and when i was a kid you played baseball in the spring, football in the fall and basketball in the winter. kids have choices available to them and it's competitive and our focus is try to form good partnerships and the youth space to try to get the kids playing. we have a great partner and working with a number of other groups to try to make sure that baseball is competitive in the space. >> let's talk about african americans. baseball i think about the iconic moments that i have had just covering president obama

and how many baseball memories that he has brought in to talk about the first african american president. he is talk about what that meant to him. there's no doubt on what baseball has meant to america and diversification and african american participation in baseball now is below the national average. what do you do? >> we have a number of programs in place that we're going to be expanding on as we're going forward. we have reviving baseball in the inner cities and it's a program in the areas where the kids do not have an opportunity to play. we have a joinlt program with the ml bpa and a huge problem in the inner city facilities. baseball tomorrow has built $10 million worth of field in the last decade. maybe most important our club and partnership have opened up a number of urban youth academies. i had a chance to visit one in

washington this spring. it's a fantastic program. it's an after school program that has baseball, nutrition support and through those sorts of programs we hope to attract more people and more african americans back to the game. >> pete rose going to have -- you're coming into this with a more opened mind that the last commissioner, is that fair to say? >> let me say this. i was trained as a lawyer and trained under the rules and constitution. under the dungs he has a right to apply for reinstatement. i think that he deserves a fair full hearing. i am not disposed on the

issue -- from the question of whether somebody ought to be in the hall of fame. >> you ought to be able to to split that. >> the second you issue is mine and not the hall of fame rule. it's not a question of what i would like. i have to focus on the institution that i am responls for and that's major league baseball and protecting the integrity of the institution. >> you want to improve the connection with the youth and youthful generation. you're trying to deal with the pace of play. isn't that -- is that a reality? >> look. we engage in a very aggressive set of experiments and the pitch cob and the committee that was composed of people with literally decades of experience were split on the issue, you know some people said that you put a clock in baseball. why would you want to do that? interestingly the entire

committee once they saw how they went were favorite inclined. we went forward and i think that weather it comes to the big leagues is going to be a product of how well the changes we did this year worked? >> that was the new baseball commissioner rob man ford and part of a new generation of man ford. i think that they want to be problem solvers and change. don't go anywhere. we will be back in less than a minute and what is now for indicted senator from new jersey.

- you set rules around the house, right? so set rules for your kids when they go online: don't be a cyberbully. no racy selfies. and remember everyone can see everything you post, even grandma. rules keep kids safe online. the more you know. time now for "meet the press" end game. brought to you by boeing where the drive to do something better inspires us everyday. we have some news this week and robert is now the 11th senator to be indicted while a senator -- not for actions but to go back to actions you have to go back to john smith and he was the first of 11. three resigned and four

convicted and three of them were over turned and only one pled guilty to the charges. amy walter you watch the senate closer. bob, you watch bob closely. any chance that he takes the advice of the nrk new york times and resigns? >> none. he got his start being basically a fighter in new jersey and fighting corruption and there's no way that i see that he steps down. >> i was surprised how new jersey democrats have rallied around him. chris gave him a defense earlier. how long do you think that democrats are uncomfortable? >> well, for a while. to get like a jersey number 11 when you're indicted. >> i don't think so. >> i don't think that this says a lot despite what the public says -- i think that it says a lot about the culture and i have spent a lot of times in the years and i know that you have. it's the way that the money and

friendships and politics and there are so many school districts. i think in new jersey he probably retains his support because for a longer because i think this is the way that politics has been planted. >> it's built in. yeah there's an expectations. one of the theories out there by some cricket social security that the loudest critic of the president's two form policy and cuba opening up and the iran deal that somehow this is connected. do you buy this? >> i don't. >> certainly it mutes a critic. >> on thursday he was very -- >> one of the first e-mails that i got when the deal was announced was from senator menendez and he was in the coming out against it at the time and saying wait to see.

he say that is congress needs to look at it. i don't know if he is going to be needed on this. >> he had a longer response to stick with iran here. chuck put out a statement and unlike what we were used to it was not a proposed statement. it was two sentences and praising her for working hard and saying i will take a look. >> that's sort after what hillary clinton's statement is. republicans -- >> all unified. >> hillary clinton and a lot of democrats and i will look at the details. you will see that. one thing is that he is not going to be ranking more of the committee. that does matter when the hearing starts and you have you know ben much less hawkish and so if they're working together that's different than them that's on the same place of being opposed to the president's view. >> yeah, if i am bob i am trying

to recruit tim to become the new cosponsor and it's not the deal and it's corker cane. >> going the conspiracy theory remember there's a republican governor and if he leaves would a republican take over? >> are we going to have a new jersey senator serve a term? >> they believe in giving everyone a chance. >> fair enough. okay. before we go i will tell you your colleague over the new york times and there's something about him when he gets an interview and harry reid has some quotes in his sort of good-bye interview and said this about woman and power. woman are much more patient. they can be the they're pushed the wrong way combative. a lot of we men are combative by

nature. does he have it right? >> yeah. first of all let me say that i think this is the first time that i say that i miss harry reid. he is coming out quit fiesty. >> he made no apoll apologies and making something up. he said we won. that's sort of the lbj school of make him deny it. >> he has the support of the colleagues in doing that. the democratic and he is going out as we should expect from a guy who was a boxer. >> which by the way matt said this about why jeb bush is the easiest to beat starts going through it and he says how can his brother jeb get away from that? i will take clinton baggage over that everyday. i will take it negative. jeez i am sure that hillary is saying thanks harry. >> harry reid is a rare thing

nouchlt he is a western democrat. not a coastal one, but a democrat one. there's a lot more bluntness. he has not always been a great messenger, but he has said things that nobody else wanted the say. >> he is always saying that he is -- he is very honest and candid in a way that reporters could enjoy. >> that was a bad. i am sorry. he passed on a rumor. >> the comment on clinton and president president dialogue. he says things that he should not say. >> he does. happy easter and pass over. that's it for today. we will be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press."

intercepted at the goal line! >> the following is a presentation of nbc sports. for many celebrating easter and passover tre's always hockey and wells fargo is the place in the delaware valley it's philadelphia for the final battle of pennsylvania until next fall flyers/penguins. >> sense of urgency around your team right now. what is atmosphere like? >> we need to play with more desperation. we have let some other things slip into our game. we got to