this sunday, terror in brussels. after another horrific isis attack on yet another european capital. are major intelligence failings putting more lives at risk? >> this country seems overwhelmed by the scale of the threat. >> we'll have the latest from a city on edge. plus, the trump effect. the republican race devolves even further, if that was possible, with a trump-cruz feud over the candidates' wives. >> donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave heidi the hell alone. >> is this now the new normal? also, convention chaos. >> the delegates are not bound to vote according to the results of the primary. >> how the republican establishment can deny donald trump the nomination no matter how many states he wins. one of the candidates who hopes to benefit, john kasich, joins

me. and a big night for bernie sanders who won some big victories in three caucus states on saturday. >> in state after state huge voter turnouts. >> bernie sanders is with me live. and joining me for insight and analysis are members of the nbc campaign team, andrea mitchell, katy tur, hallie jackson and kristen welker. welcome to this special easter sunday edition of "meet the press." from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good easter sunday morning. it was a big saturday night by the way for bernie sanders. he will join me later in the show. sanders swept the three caucuses in washington, alaska and hawaii, and he did so by huge margins. that said he still faces an uphill path to the nomination because hillary clinton still has that commanding overall delegate lead. but we're going to start with what's been a strange week in the republican campaign, even strange by this standard.

you might have expected the conversation to have been dominated by the isis terror attacks in brussels, which claimed the lives of 28 people including two americans, two we can identify, justin and stephanie schultz. they were married and had been living in brussels since 2014. but as donald trump has done countless times, he somehow -- or had it moved for him, the focus of the conversation away from terror in his own foreign policy weaknesses to an opponent. and this time the focus got turned to ted cruz. >> his first and natural resort is to go to sleaze and to go to slime. and one question americans are wondering all over this country is how low will donald go. >> a week that began with questions about donald trump's readiness to be commander in chief and a rush of establishment endorsements of ted cruz is ending with a dispute over this photo retweeted by trump to his 7 million twitter followers. >> donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave heidi the hell alone. >> and a tabloid story, cruz's

campaign believes that donald trump had planted. >> this national inquirer story is garbage. it is a smear that has come from donald trump and his henchmen. >> trump says he has nothing to do with it and blames cruz for a digital ad placed by an anti-trump super pac targeting his wife in hopes of turning off utah voters. the charges and counter charges, insults and innuendo are just another day in this campaign dominated by donald trump. other candidates have struggled to keep up. >> donald, you know, is great at the one-liners. but he's a chaos candidate. >> trump is a master of the chaos he creates, of insults that stick. >> hostility works for some people. it doesn't work for everybody. >> and of creating a new story line when the old one is inconvenient or used up. under scrutiny by religious conservatives in iowa, trump changed the subject to john mccain. >> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured, okay?

>> when rubio and cruz got the upper hand last month, rolled out chris christie's endorsement within an hour. >> and this awkward appearance br the "the washington post" editorial board raised more questions about his readiness for the white house. >> this is about isis. you would not use a tactical nuclear weapon against isis? >> one thing, this is a good looking group of people, can i go around and find out who i'm talking to. >> trump again shifted the conversation. where he leads on issue. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> other candidates follow. ted cruz is still trying to walk back a plan to, quote, patrol and secure muslim neighborhoods. >> if you have a neighborhood that is plagued by gang activity, it is standard and good law enforcement direct more resources. >> it's an echo effect that has trump to his own success and detriment setting the terms of the campaign debate. yesterday i was joined by ohio governor and current republican presidential candidate john kasich.

and i started by asking him about the brussels attacks and why he thinks so many republicans who have voted in the primaries agree with calls from trump and cruz to not just ban muslims from entering the united states, but even introduce extra surveillance in muslim communities in america. >> i think when they see things it makes them very concerned and very nervous. and so it's sort of a knee-jerk, i think, chuck. but let's talk practically here. in order for us to have great human intelligence, i want the public to hear this, we are going to have to have intimate communication and coordination with our friends in the muslim community. there is no question about it. i mean, in order to find out about the radicalized friends and neighbors, or people that you may not even know at all who you observe doing things, this has to be a coordinated effort worldwide. one other thing i want to say, chuck, that is i think we ought to have a dramatically reformed

nato. right now we think of nato as a military organization. i think it needs to involve itself in policing and in intelligence gathering because when we look at europe right now we find there's so many holes and an inability -- their ability to get their act together. >> but you've got a europe right now where every country feels as if it's every country for themselves. i mean, we talk about -- >> well, yeah. >> we talk about the nativism in this country, you have in every european country right now similar pattern where there's distrust of their own allies. they're concerned about sharing their economic wealth with other less economically -- with more economically challenged countries. it seems like europe's about to break apart. >> well, look, either we hang together or we hang separately is really what the message from a good leader is. and, chuck, this is a little bit of a different illustration, but in our state whenever we have a difficulty somewhere, almost our

entire cabinet shows up. i have told them all that we work together to solve a problem. we can't have silos. we just have to work together. that is what the president of the united states needs to communicate to our allies around the world. and frankly it's got to include our friends in the arab muslim community. we cannot beat this unless we do this, strengthen ourselves militarily, destroy isis and begin to have a message out there particularly by the muslim imams about the fact that this is not tolerable. this is murder and it's not acceptable in our civilization. >> you were pretty critical of the president for not cutting short his trip in cuba and immediately coming back to washington. should he do that after every single terrorist attack? because he also shares your belief that you can't overreact to every incident or you unnerve the public. >> well, look, i would say, chuck, when you have an attack in the heart of europe, and you have this kind of slaughter, if i were president -- i'm just telling you what i would do.

i wouldn't have gone to a baseball game in cuba. i would have come home. i would have called all the world leaders. i would have gathered my intelligence and military experts. and i would have sent them to europe to sit down to assess our vulnerabilities. i mean, i'm not overreacting here, but you also can't underundunde underreact. when somebody says we ought to ban all muslims coming in, that is a statement -- it's not based in reality. i don't know even how you would do it. secondly, we can't be out there aggravating the very people whose cooperation we need. but in terms of the president in cuba, don't go to a baseball game after this happened. you come home. >> all right. let me ask a politics question. ted cruz's campaign is repeatedly called for you to get out. saying a vote for you is a vote for donald trump. now, we went through this last week. if you thought your position in this race strengthened trump, would you get out? >> chuck, i'm beating hillary by 11 points. i'm the only one that can win in the fall. and as you noticed the narrative over the last week has been what is wrong with the party.

kasich's the guy that can win the general. some people have said kasich would be the best president. get out for what? if i'd gotten out trump would be the nominee, he would have won ohio. and frankly, we'll win some districts in wisconsin. we will move to pennsylvania where i'm basically in a statistical tie with trump. and when we go to new york and everywhere else, we're going to pick up delegates. it's absurd. it's absurd. you know, if you really want, let them consolidate behind me because frankly i'm the one that can win in the fall. and i'm the one that can get the crossover vote. >> this campaign -- >> happy easter. >> there you go. the campaign tone has been every time you think we've hit a low it goes lower. you've based your whole campaign on not participating in that. so i get that. i know that's going to be one part of your answer. but can ted cruz or donald trump do something about this? is this all a trump effect? what do you make of this? >> well, first of all, chuck, families have to be off limit.

i mean, you cannot get this -- these attacks on families. and if this becomes the order of the day, what kind of people are we going to have in the future that are going to run for public office? there's got to be some rules. and there's got to be something that gets set there, some decency. and, frankly, chuck, at the end of the day, you know, what we need to do is we need to have programs to lift people and not diminish people. that's what we're seeing a lot of happening. but look, it's a long way to cleveland. let's see what happens. >> you're still committed to supporting donald trump if he's the nominee? >> we're going to look at it every single day. we'll see what happens. we got a long way to go. i don't want to project he'll be the nominee. i don't think he will be. if he is -- i review it every day. that's all i can tell you. >> sounds like it's more hesitance every day. >> i said what i said, chuck. i'm done talking about the subject. >> fair enough. how about that?

anyway, let's bring in the panel. and we've got four of our top campaign correspondents here in studio. one of the few brief days thanks to easter we can get you here to washington. chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell, hallie jackson covering the white house, kristen welker covering the beat and katy tur on the donald trump beat. welcome all. sorry i'm sucking up holiday time, but i appreciate it. obviously a bizarre week, andrea, in so many ways. but i want to go because what i think could have been the story of the week was this unbelievable editorial board interview that donald trump did with "the washington post." let me play a longer excerpt of it and get you to respond. >> if you could substantially reduce the risk of harm to ground troops, would you use a battlefield nuclear weapon to take out isis? >> i don't want to use -- i don't want to start the process of nuclear. remember, one thing that everybody has said, i'm a

counterpuncher. rub yoio hit me, bush hit me, w i said low energy, he's a low energy individual. he hit me first. by the way, spent $18 million worth of negative ads on me. >> this is about isis. you would not use -- >> by the way, could i do one thing? this is a very good looking group of people. can i go around and so i know who the hell i'm talking to. >> by the way, folks know, so then everybody around the room introduced themselves, subject got changed. >> exactly. he cannot stick to a subject. when he doesn't know something, he changes the subject and makes it all about himself. >> national security is very noticeable, especially to your ears and mine. >> absolutely. and this was a week where he could have gone after president obama, arguably. there's a lot happening and the president has some vulnerabilities. so does hillary clinton. instead he's all over the lot. and then the "new york times" do an interview with him, a 90-minute interview and it's in today's paper and online. and the transcript, if you read the transcript online, he would cancel defense treaties with

japan and south korea against north korea. he doesn't mind, he would be okay if japan and south korea go nuclear. american policy for decades since world war ii has been trying to keep nukes out of that arena. he would stop importing oil from saudi arabia if they don't pay more for their defense. we need oil. we are not energy independent. we rely on oil still. >> sure. >> for our daily needs. he is completely all over the lot on iran he complained that iran isn't buying our planes. it had to be pointed out to him that iran is still under sanctions and cannot buy american planes. he thinks north korea and iran are the biggest trading partners when north korea's biggest trading partner is china. he is completely uneducated about any part of the world. >> and, katy, it is clear. you cover this campaign every day. there isn't a big team around him, is there? you don't see -- >> no. >> you don't see these foreign policy advisers and now telling "new york times" some are under

contracts on television, as he told me first, he learns a lot of things from the shows and i guess he's going to hire a foreign policy team based on people that are appearing on various shows. >> but you don't see them out with donald trump at all. we're not seeing them very much on the tv circuit, as you mentioned. it's unclea how many conversations he's had with them. we've made phone calls, all of these people. very few of them have gotten back to us and given us a flushed out idea of what is going on. >> and how he learns -- >> how he learns and whether he's taking it all in. >> yeah. >> i dare say that "the washington post" audio excerpt will come back to haunt him in the general election, especially if he's going up against somebody like hillary clinton who is so well versed when it comes to foreign policy. the other thing that really struck out at me was he didn't understand the function of u.s. bases around the world, the basic function of why they are there. and these are things that when they get flushed out could hurt him. the question is will he be able to change the conversation, as he's been doing this entire time. >> go ahead, kristen. >> chuck, a lot of top republicans say this is a chance for donald trump to appear

presidential, to give a big foreign policy speech like hillary clinton did. she instead took the ball, ran with it, went on offense when it comes to foreign policy. and really hit donald trump and ted cruz on a whole host of -- >> very traditionally. she did it very traditionally the way you would expect a presidential candidate to do. but then the tone got completely changed. i want to sort of move. and, hallie, this all came in cruz world a little bit, you know, my this escalated quickly. >> yeah. >> but i guess sort of what happened here? and how did this go from this, i guess, a super pac's digital ad got turned into what it got turned into. >> right. look at the progression of what you noted we've seen this week tuesday we're talking about this terror attack and candidates' responses to it, we're talking about the tabloid cover that's out there. i think this shows donald trump is able to shift the conversation with a single tweet. and the tweet that came out retweeting this image of heidi cruz next to melania trump was

st stunning to the cruz campaign. i think ted cruz was stunned and very emotional about this even before you started talking about the inquirer story. one of the things ted cruz hit on he seems a little rehearsed, inauthentic, that's a knock against him. right now, he's emotional, mad and showing it. >> speaking of showing it, let me show you. you've asked him twice, two days in a row, about this idea, can you still support trump if he's the nominee. it was interesting to watch him from thursday to friday. >> so will you support him as the nominee? >> i'm going to beat him for the nomination. >> that's not an answer to the question, senator. >> i am answering the question. donald trump will not be the nominee. >> he's leading right now. you just looked in the camera and said he's a coward. >> donald trump will not be the nominee. i don't make a habit out of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my family. >> so an evolving movement. by the way, for the record, you

saw the ending of kasich where he's having a hesitance. i put together a montage of him on the show. you can watch him hesitate. so on this where john kasich has moved and shifted that same way, do you think cruz will ever go all the way? >> that's a good question. i think you're seeing him lay the groundwork over the last 48 hours. you saw that moment on thursday where he didn't say he wopt support donald trump, but he also didn't say what he's been saying for months now which is affirmatively, yes, i have made a commitment, i have made a pledge to support somebody and i keep my promises. remember that is fundamental to ted cruz's campaign on every issue, consistent and keeps promises. yesterday you saw him say i don't make a habit of supporting people who attack my family. and yesterday this tweet, donald trump is not a republican. not donald trump is not a conservative, donald trump is not a republican. which maybe opens the door to going back on that pledge. >> but it is, andrea, final thing what was amazing, trump is

almost trying to borrow a page from the lbj handbook. he basically said, i hope that story's not true, but also trying to fan the flames. hey, look, the national enquirer got it right on and then throws in lying ted cruz. this is sort of make him deny it type of lbj thing. >> right. exactly. as katy's been reporting he has a very close relationship with the people of national enquirer. >> there's more evidence that ties trump to planting the story than there is to the story itself tying anything to cruz. >> like, i hope this is not true. and then tell me everything about it. it has been a remarkable, extraordinary period and as i say at a time when he should be vulnerable on foreign policy. >> the audio, this "the washington post" thing. we're going to have to move on here. the audio to this "the washington post" thing if it ever got legs could he get the nominati

nomination. thank you all. we'll take a pause. coming up the latest from brussels after the horrific isis terror attacks. and key question, do s we were born 100 years ago into a new american century. born with a hunger to fly and a passion to build something better. and what an amazing time it's been, decade after decade of innovation, inspiration and wonder. so, we say thank you america for a century of trust, for the privilege of flying higher and higher, together. ♪

and to connect us with thes twonderment of nature. with the tiger image, the saliva coming off and you got this turning. that's why i need this kind of resolution and computing power. being able to use a pen like this on the screen directly with the image, it just gives me a different relationship to it and i can't do that on my mac. this is brilliant for me. welcome back. it's been reported this morning that the syrian army has retaken the historic city of palmyra from isis with russian support. but the cities of baghdad and

brussels still reeling after isis suicide bombings this weekend. this morning church services have been taking place on easter sunday to remember the 28 victims of the attacks on the city's subway system and airport. but brussels is still on edge. a peace rally that was scheduled for today had to be canceled due to security concerns. let's check in with keir simmons in brussels with the latest. i understand a new arrest this morning in connection with the brussels bombing. tell us about it. >> reporter: hey, chuck, good morning. that's right. this is an international manhunt for suspects. this morning police saying that they have arrested an algerian man in italy. he's accused of producing documents for three of the terrorists involved in paris and brussels. charges against a number of suspects including one they call terrorist assassination, chuck, roughly translates to terrorist murderer. we are learning too about the international nature of the various victims of the dead. they say that they came from

eight different countries. the injured from 19 nationalities, chuck. and among the killed the belgian ambassador to the u.n. who also spent time as the u.s. -- as the belgium ambassador to the u.s. and justin and stephanie schultz, two americans whose family for days simply didn't know where they were, were looking for them, finally they got that terrible news. and they say that that couple were really enjoying their time here in europe going around seeing the sights. terrible news, as you mentioned, there is real tension on the streets. you can see behind me the army still on the streets as we learn that by targeting this city isis effectively targeted an international city and would have known that they would have killed people from many, many parts of the world. >> now made it a global reach. now, it seems as if there's -- obviously some connection between the paris attacks late last year and what happened this week. but a week ago, a week ago friday, there was a big arrest

in the paris attacks having to do with salah abdelsalam and an arrest made in belgium. >> reporter: right. >> did it trigger the acceleration of the terrorist attack that took place in brussels, basically within 72 hours of the arrest? >> right. it's a good question. and another point too, they put out an arrest warrant for a man called najim laachraoui who turned out to be a suicide bomber at the airport. chuck, remember too in the days before the attack there was reports that salah abdelsalam was talking to the police and that he was telling them that there might be another attack. now, it is now emerged officials saying here that he was not saying that during interrogation. so i think there will be some questions, chuck. there are already questions about what intelligence services here knew and whether they could prevent an attack. but also they will be wondering as the days go by whether some of the publicity that came out, some of the things that were said may have led a terrorist cell to act and whether or not

that was completely wise, chuck. >> keir, thanks very much. so for more on this i'm joined by our chief foreign correspondent richard engel just returned from brussels and michael lichter now with the national security company litos. welcome to you all. michael, i want to go to you on this last point. the connection here, the arrest of salah abdelsalam on friday, basically less than 72 hours later this attack happens. there seems to be something here that connects these two incidts. >> i think almost certainly, chuck. and this likely shows a serious tactical failing by the belgians. when we arrested someone in the u.s. or anywhere else, the first thing you always go for, the only thing you're focused onto start is what other attacks might be coming. and it looks at least from the outside that that did not occur. but there's a second more strategic piece here which is really striking. this is the first time since 9/11 that we have had a cell or network in the west conduct an attack and then it survives to

fight another day and launch another attack. and this is after four months of intensive investigation. >> this has never happened in any other incident. we're usually able to eliminate that cell? >> that's right. we never gotten back to the planners all the time in pakistan or somalia. >> sure. >> but the cell in the west to be able to do this whether it was london or madrid. >> you were always able to destroy. >> we saw it and destroyed it. here four months after intense investigation across western europe they had another attack. >> richard -- >> the cell was able to reconstitute itself, attract new members and attack again. >> you're talking tactical failure, strategic failure, intelligence failure. i was told something quite startling, richard, i'm guessing you've heard this before. he said the quickest path to get information around europeans is to tell the americans. if france and belgium couldn't coordinate on dealing with this, if those two countries that share some of their populous shares a language, if they can't coordinate, how does the rest of europe do it?

>> there were so many intelligence failures on this and it makes one wonder how many more intelligence failures are there going to be. look what happened with one of the chief suspects. he was arrested in turkey while trying to sneak into syria, presumably to fight with isis. the turks say they deported him. shared this information with european partners and he still got out and was able to become one of the major attackers. it seems like the dam has been broken for a problem that has been building up for a long time. 7,000 -- that's the number you're herie inine inine ining well, 7,000 foreign fighters gone to fight with isis and maybe 1,500 or so have come back. and it seems that europe doesn't know where they are and isn't talking to other -- isn't sharing that information. >> i'm going to ask a question i can't believe i'm saying, is brussels a safe haven for terrorists, michael? >> regrettably lots of western europe is a safe haven.

because what the european union has created is wonderful for the free movement of people and goods and commerce, but it's terrible from a security perspecti perspective. so the borderless society still has very much bordered, isolated intelligence services. and those countries have to come up with multilateral sharing arrangements amongst law enforcement intelligence that don't exist today. >> i want to play a quick clip, richard, of your interview you had with john kerry, secretary of state. you pressed him on this. it was an amazing non-answer from him. let me play it. >> do you think europe has a handle on the level of the isis infiltration here? >> europe's done a lot. and particularly the government of belgium has done a lot. i mean, before this event took place they had already had our foreign fighter surge team here a month ago. they are the ones who apprehended salah abdelsalam.

that may or may not have initiated this -- >> richard, he tried everything he could do to praise. he wouldn't -- and yet behind the scenes you can't find an american analyst that says this is on belgium. >> i spoke to people as this was -- as this crisis was unfolding who were pulling their hair out. that the belgian authorities were not on top of the situation. he's coming there as a diplomatic mission, he wants to praise. but it seems like there were many, many failures. in this country, for example we were talking about this earlier, if you're in one state and you drive across the state line, and let's say the cops are chasing you from north carolina to south carolina, they're still going to be chasing you once you get to north carolina. >> right. >> that is not the case in europe. the intelligence stops. >> stops at the border. >> at the border. it's like a 1950s system where if you get across the state line you're scot free. >> you're safe. it's interesting, they're trying to go borderless in europe, they've been trying to do all these things and yet what we're seeing in this country, ted cruz

calling for surveillance of muslim communities, the nypd commissioner bratton saying that's crazy, does a whole new york daily news op-ed this morning in today's daily news chastisining cruz for this. and yet this morning in brussels anti-immigrant protests. this nationalism is on the rise in europe too, and that will make your job and the intelligence community that much harder. >> that's absolutely right. intelligence and law enforcement have to partner with these communities. if these communities feel alienated, whether it's in brussels or boston, these are -- >> these are anti-immigration protests just a few minutes ago in brussels. >> that's my biggest fear. that means they're not going to cooperate. they're not going to report to people they're being radicalized, they're not going to field internal parts of communities. >> we don't have these ghettos but more chatter like this it can create the ghetto.

anyway, toif leai have to leave there. back to the political race. big wins for bernie sanders last night. hillary clinton still has a commanding lead in the delegate count. i will ask him what changed yesterday and does it help his path to the nomination. and later, donald trump's trouble with women. why it could change the electoral map in a big way. the future belongs to the fast. and to help you accelerate, we've created a new company. ♪ one totally focused on what's next for your business. a true partnership where people, technology and ideas push everyone forward. accelerating innovation. accelerating transformation. accelerating next. hewlett packard enterprise. rightabreva can heal itold sore, in as few as two and a half days when used at the first sign. without it the virus spreads from cell to cell. only abreva penetrates deep and starts to work immediately

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they are. do i look smarter? yeah, a little. you're making money now, are you investing? well, i've been doing some research. let me introduce you to our broker. how much does he charge? i don't know. okay. uh, do you get your fees back if you're not happy? (dad laughs) wow, you're laughing. that's not the way the world works. well, the world's changing. are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management, at charles schwab. welcome back. now to the democratic race and my next guest, bernie sanders, he scored some impressive

victories over hillary clinton in the three caucuses that were held yesterday. let me run through the numbers here. in alaska he won by a whopping 64 points, 82% of the caucus vote to clinton's 18. washington state another big win 73% for him. in hawaii he won by a smaller margin, 42 points, 71%. so big wins in all three states. sanders picked up so far 46 of the delegates that have been allocated from last night. clinton has 14. however, clinton still has an overall commanding lead in the delegate count, 1672 to sanders' 994. that does include superdelegates in our count by the way. on the allocated pledge delegates her lead is smaller. senator sanders joins me now from vermont. senator, good morning, sir. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you very much, chuck. >> so you got the size of victories you need last night. going forward you got to continue to win by margins like this to catch up to hillary clinton.

can you win 60% of the vote or more in wisconsin, in pennsylvania, in new york, in maryland? how does this success in caucuses translate to primaries? >> well, our calculations are that in fact we can win the pledge delegates. and at a time when we have the momentum, we have won five out of the six last contests in landslide fashion. in all of the national polling that i have seen we are beating donald trump by much greater margins than is secretary clinton. we started this campaign at 3%, the polls 60 points behind clinton, now in the last poll i've seen we're points up. i think now the super delegates are beginning to look at which democratic candidate is in the best place to defeat donald trump. i think some of them are beginning to understand it's bernie sanders. >> so that's your case at this point, right? if you can't win, do you think you should be the nominee?

if you don't win a majority of the pledged delegates, do you think the super delegates should decide who the nominee is? >> well, i'm not going to speculate. i think we can win the pledge delegates. and i think if we continue the momentum we have right now, we will. and the reason is, i'll tell you, the issues that we are talking about, a corrupt campaign finance system, the disappearance of the american middle class, the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality, the need to deal boldly with climate change. kids graduating college $50,000 in debt. chuck, those are the issues that the american people want to hear discussed and want to see acted upon. >> i want to talk about how the two of you bring this party together once a nominee is decided. i noticed some change at your rallies over the last couple of weeks. i want to play some excerpts here. there's a lot of booing of hillary clinton going on. take a listen. >> she voted for the wall.

[ audience booing ] what she has done is established a number of super pacs, her largest one recently reported raising $25 million from -- [ audience booing ] secretary clinton has given speeches on wall street behind closed doors for $225,000 a speech. [ audience booing ] >> what's interesting has been your reaction to the booing. you had no reaction there, but here's what you did over a month ago when booing started about hillary clinton at your rallies. >> one of the areas where my opponent, secretary clinton, and i have a strong disagreement. [ audience booing ] no, no, i respect secretary clinton. we can have differences. >> now, according to our folks, the last time you chastised your supporters for booing hillary clinton was on february 23rd. now you don't do that.

any reason? >> no, no reason at all. you know, every day we are in a different position here. i respect secretary clinton. i don't want our supporters to be booing her. but there are real differences of opinion. and one of the differences is that she has raised $15 million from wall street. we have raised $6 million individual contributions averaging $27 a piece. people respond the way they respond. but what we are trying to do in this campaign is to differentiate our positions from secretary clinton on the war in iraq, on fracking, on how we raise money. that is what the american people want to hear. and by the way, one other point, chuck, i would hope very much that as we go into new york state, secretary clinton's home state, that we will have a debate new york city, upstate, wherever, on the important issues facing new york and in fact the country. >> are you worried she won't debate you anymore? >> yeah, i do have a little bit

of concern about that. but i certainly would like to see a debate in new york state. >> very quickly, in a web interview last week you seemed to set some parameters of some things of demands you would have of hillary clinton if she were the nominee, that she would support medicare for all, single payer, $15 minimum wage, free public college and that that's what it would take to earn your support and your supporters' support, is that correct? >> no. >> you won't support her as the nominee? >> no, i think that's a misinterpretation of what i said. those are my views. and i think those are the positions that are imperative that we move forward toward for the betterment of the middle class and working families of this country. >> but you'll support her if she doesn't share your views on that? >> i did not say that. i did not say that. i did say that it's absurd we remain the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all people paid family and medical leave.

we have got to change that. >> there's no -- is there conditions for you to support her? >> right now i am running to become president of the united states. and i hope very much, chuck, that you'll be asking her that question. >> i understand that. and i will the next time i have her, but are there conditions for your support of her if she's the nominee? >> it's too early to talk about that. right now we have a lot of momentum. we're focusing on wisconsin, new york state. we have a path to victory. we are going to win this nomination process. >> all right. bernie sanders, i will leave it there. senator sanders, thanks for coming on. stay safe on the trail, sir. >> thank you very much. up next, a look at how donald trump's comments on women could turn a gender gap into the gender grand canyon. sir ridley scott, legendary filmmaker. are you a film buff, watson? no, but i am studying the visual storytelling in your movies. you know, it's amazing how much information is contained in a single image. one visual can make or break a film. i am analyzing images for factory managers,

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welcome back. it's "meet the press" data download time. we're going to take a deep dive into donald trump's problem with women voters and how it could cost him big time in november. in our latest nbc/"the wall street journal" poll, among all women trump's favorability rating was an astonishing 21% positive, 70% negative. 49 points really unprecedented for a major presidential candidate. for comparison mitt romney's favorable rating was only five points under water before the 2012 election. five. trump even has a 41% negative rating among republican women.

so let's continue to put this issue in context. in 2012 president obama beat romney by 11 points n. a hyin a hypothetical with hillary clinton she beats six times by that much. what about white women typically count on in winning contest, romney beat obama among white women 56 to 42. but trump would lose white women to clinton 48 to 38, a remarkable 24 point swing among that group. from a plus 14 to a minus 10, why is this important? trump is going to have to drive up the vote among whites to win. how do you do that when you lose roughly half of the white vote by margins like this? finally, let's look at where elections are won and lost these days. the suburbs, clinton beat trump among -- beats trump among suburban women by a whopping 30 points, 60 to 30. that makes trump vulnerable in key states with large suburban

populations. think, northern virginia, philadelphia, cleveland, orlando and denver all in states president obama won in 2012 largely because of significant gender gap with romney. but now, adding charlotte, north carolina, atlanta, georgia, and phoenix, arizona, these states were all lost by obama. they could be won by clinton if she wins by margins with women against donald trump. republicans are used to having a gender gap to deal with, but right now this looks like a gender canyon, maybe a gender grand canyon. after the break, inside the gop plot to take the nomination away from donald trump at the convention, even if he wins the most states and most delegates. get ready to (music plays) hi i'm kristie and i'm jess. and we are the bug chicks. we are a nano-business. windows 10 really helps us get the word out about how awesome bugs are. kids learn to be brave and curious and all kids speak the language of bug. "hey cortana, find my katydid video" oh! this is so good. (laughs)

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donald trump is in a race to 1237, it's a number now we're all getting used to and familiar with, and he can't afford to miss hitting that magic number. here's why. there's already an effort underway to stop him at a second ballot at the convention in cleveland. right now trump has 752 delegates, and a 282 delegate lead over ted cruz. in order to hit the magic 1237 majority number and earn that glide path to the nomination, trump has to win 54% of the remaining delegates. he has some favorable contests coming up, like his home state of new york has 95 delegates up for grabs and a winner take all state of new jersey where maybe his buddy chris christie can help him win those 51 delegates. but the race is already onto create sort of delegate double agents. if trump fails to win that majority on the first ballot, these are people who will promise to dump trump on the second ballot. and then there's an effort underway to mobilize zombie

delegates. these are delegates pledged to candidates who have dropped out of the race. they could switch their vote over to someone else in the race, maybe even on the first ballot. maybe it's cruz, maybe it's trump. so to discuss all of this i'm joined by our resident zombie expert, republican delegate guru who served of course as lead counsel to the bush-cheney campaign in 2000 and mitt romney's lawyer in 2012. so the zombie apocalypse will hit cleveland. we have free agent delegates and zombie delegates. i want to talk about free agent delegates first. we have donald trump already this morning angry about this. louisiana, he wins the primary big, he should get lion's share of delegates. the cruz campaign claims they are going to have more delegates out of louisiana, a state they lost, than trump. how did they do it? explain. >> the way they managed to do it is that 44 of the 56 states and territories give the candidates no role in choosing who the delegates -- >> who the individuals are. >> who the individuals are. so a well-organized campaign will go into all these state

conventions and state executive committee meetings and manage to get supporters of theirs. they'll be bound on the first ballot to the winner of their state primary, but not for any of the procedural rules issues and not for the second ballot. >> all right. they're the double agents. now let's talk about zombie delegates. i want to put up a graphic here. there are a group of unbound delegates. we know they're always going to be over about a hundred -- we've done the math here. over 100 of them. there's another 175 of the zombie delegates, these are people mostly marco rubio delegates out of virginia and minnesota. but a handful of carson, maybe one or two jeb bushes. what is their role in all of this? >> well, their role in all of this is almost the equivalent of the democrat super delegate. in other words, they can be for whatever candidate they want. so, for example, the campaigns will be very aggressive in going to the state conventions where

these unbound delegates are selected. you're going to have three tests coming right up in the first three weeks. you're going to have fargo, north dakota. >> yeah. >> you're going to have colorado springs, colorado. and then you're going to have casper, wyoming. >> there you go. >> so there are three great places to go to see how -- >> absolutely. i'm going to specifically here éw because it's the cruz and trump campaigns. the cruz campaign seems to know everything about this process. >> they are incredibly well organized when it comes to sort of this on-the-ground microtargeting data kind of thing when it comes to these delegates. this is something the campaign did successfully in iowa, right? drill down to know the voters. >> so they're going to know the delegates' likes and dislikes, right? >> certainly those 344 and probably all of them that are going. the campaign has said they are not just focusing on the races to come, but looking back at the races that have already happened in order to make sure they lock down these delegate states. this is a real priority for them. watch north dakota, watch

colorado. >> you also have south carolina. katy, i got to ask, the trump campaign doesn't like this narrative that they don't know what they're doing. >> absolutely. so they do have a team in place, about a dozen people. their delegate convention team. and they are going out and they're trying to convince delegates to get on their side. their internal projections say they're going to get to 1400, 1450. >> i saw that number. >> who knows where they're getting it from, but that's what they're saying. if they don't get that they believe they have a real opportunity especially in that 40-day window between the last primary and convention to go and woo these unbound delegates by negotiating for whatever they want. >> and there are no rules. >> they said this. >> as we know. and he's a negotiator. >> he's a deal maker. >> these delegates have a mind of their own. i want to play a quick interview we did with a gop delegate out of north dakota. here's what he said, ben. i want to get you to respond. >> well, here's another thing that's not very well understood. the priority of rules and authority in the republican party is the convention first.

the convention is the highest authority. and so the convention rules govern everything. >> ahh, the convention rules. guess what, we don't have convention rules yet, do we? >> no, we do not. >> that's the point of this donald trump doesn't yet understand. >> they must be passed by each convention for that convention. there will be a lot of curly hogans out there who have great ideas of their own on what can be done. >> this is going to be madness. i'm going to have to stop there, sneak in one more break. end game time in less than a minute. more on the battle for the womens vote if it is a trump-clinton contest. coming up, "meet the press" end game brought to you by boeing, building

- even parents need a time out sometimes, especially from communications technology. so why not spend one hour totally unplugged? read, talk, make art, or whatever. no batteries required. "meet the press" end game is brought to you by boeing. building the future one century at a time. end game time. panelist is here. we've been ping-ponging a lot. i know you have a lot of interest in our data download. andrea, what's been interesting is the clinton campaign for months has been trying to galvanize her candidacy as a huge step for women in politics. haven't had much success. >> no. >> and yet they've got donald trump. >> donald trump is the gift that

keeps on giving to the clinton campaign. because everything that he says and every insult and every perceived insult only adds to womens -- i mean, what the clinton campaign is now looking towards in a general election is republican suburban women, those are the target voters. >> kristen, voters are they embracing the idea of running against trump or just dealing with it? >> they're dealing with it and trying to determine what his achilles heel is going to be. this womens issue -- >> they think it is? >> a part of that. also his controversial comments about muslims, for example. their biggest challenge is to figure out what to do with all of this material. remember back in 2012 when the obama campaign has the 47% comments? they didn't just roll it out all at once. they allowed the media to sort of take aim at it first and then you saw this very measured rollout. i think that's going to be one of the big challenges. and someone said something very smart to me, which is they also

have to be careful not to throw everything at him all at once. because the messaging gets lost. >> well, this was -- it's funny about that, katy. because i think that's the lesson. >> yeah. >> if hillary clinton sat down with marco rubio, with jeb bush, ben carson and say, okay, what did you do wrong, what advice would you give me? don't assume all of it's -- >> she has the ability to be monday morning quarterback here. she can see everything they've done wrong and learn from it. but the trump campaign is excited to go against hillary clinton. they do believe that she has a lot of faults. they do believe that she's vulnerable. and they're not so worried about this gender gap right now. they keep saying over and over again that donald trump has worked well with women in the past. they have ivanka trump on their side to help mitt game some of the damage there. but they also believe that white men are going to be the ones that are going to come out to vote for him. and they believe they're going to turn out new voters and mitigate some of the women losses. >> he just rolled out incompetent hillary as the nickname of lying ted and --

well, he's vulnerable on foreign policy. and the more she hugs president obama, which she is doing now and not distinguishing herself from him, the more she is vulnerable on everything going wrong if things are going wrong like -- >> donald trump is a master at repackaging himself. he doesn't have to win women voters, he just has to close the gap. >> i guess what we're learning is the trump campaign thinks, all of our vulnerabilities, say hillary clinton, united republican party. the clinton campaign believes at the end of the day, how do i motivate voters? donald trump. they need each other. >> in this strange way and yet we are still not through the primary because you have people like john kasich and ted cruz going i'm going to beat hillary, donald trump can't do it and i can. all this we can look ahead about how the two would play off each other but in reality you're going to see ted cruz and john kasich use these same perceived vulnerabilities when it comes to donald trump and women to take him down in july. >> i want to pause for a moment. do you realize there are

technically more days ahead in the primary contest between now and june 7th than there have been in the contests that have been held so far? >> don't say that. >> that's exciting. >> we are not even yet at the calendar halftime. unlike the ncaa tournament, our march madness goes onto april and may and june. >> yeah, but the wildcats beat kansas. >> all right. we shall see. that's all for today. have a very happy easter. we'll be back next week because no matter what the holiday is, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." lis sponsored in part bye"

barracuda networks, cloud-connected security and storage solutions that simplify it. city national bank, providing loans and lines of credit to help northern california businesses grow. scott mcgrew: this week, we find out the secrets of the food truck. on a good day, a clever cook can clear thousands of dollars. food truck godfather matt cohen, my guest this morning. plus, vacation time approved. a silicon valley ceo says what's best for employees is best for the company, including unlimited time off. and young entrepreneurs prepare to turn a profit. our reporters, michal lev-ram of fortune magazine, and quentin hardy of the new york times, this week on "press:here." [music]