ali elaszed the line between athlete and activist. he made it possible to speak out about politics, race, and religion in tumultuous times. they paved the way for moments like this in the 1968 summer olympics in mexico city. ali famously refused induction into the army in the vietnam war, a move that cost him 3 1/2 years of his career in his prime. >> just how far would you go to keep from taking up arms? >> i would die. anything that's against my religious beliefs, i would rather face machine gun fire before deviate from the teachings of all mighty god and the religion of islam. >> he was in it to the end. this past december, he put out this statement after donald trump's proposed muslim ban following the attacks in paris and san bernardino. speaking of someone who has never been accused of political correctness, i believe our political leaders should utheir

position to bring understanding about the religion of islam and clarify these misguided murders have perverted the view of what islam really is. we're joined by bob costas, bryant gumbel, jim brown, hall of fame running back for the cleveland browns. br bri brian, let me start with you. you have the awesome responsibility of putting ali's life in perspective later this week. nobody envies you. but we wouldn't be leading the show here today if we were just talking about ali the boxer. >> you're absolutely right, chuck. yes, it is terribly daunting. i confess, it's intimidating. but you noted some of the roles he played. he was so much more than a boxer. i thought wesley morris said it well in this morning's "new york times." he said every fight seemed like a referendum on the country. if not the country at large,

certainly on black america. you know, he came at a time when so many of us, of a certain age, were convinced that our views were right. and he was our flag bearer for those views. so when he got in the ring, if he won, we felt we were on the side of what was just and what was right. and on those few occasions when he did not prevail, it was as if we had been personally insulted or misled or misguided. and he was just a remarkable man. i know that's an overly simplistic way of putting it, but it was for me the best way. he was kwie remarkable. >> bob >> well, his life was so textured, if he didn't have all the qualities that bryant just referred to, then he wouldn't be what he was. but then there's just the sup superfishel stuff that mattered because if you can't pull it off, if you can't compel people, bring people to the stage -- a, you have to win, but he was also

physically beautiful, graceful, funny and charming as well as provocative. there was a tremendous texture to the man's life and to her personal. to say that he was any one thing sells him short. he was so many things. and the combination of those things made him unique. >> let me bring in jim brown. in many ways, jim brown, you and muhammad ali were attached at the hip at those tumultuous times. and in many ways, supported each other during times when you would be attacked by the media, you would be attacked by political leaders. >> that's absolutely true. but the greatest thing about muhammad ali is that he represented himself as a great american because americans will stand up for freedom and equality and justice. it has nothing to do with color. he also loved people. but he loved good people.

and he hated discrimination. and so when i joined force es wh him is he was a good american, i was an american, but we would not accept second-class citizenship. and people were always trying to get us to become second-class citizenship, and that was a no-no in his life and in my life. >> jim brown, how much pressure did you receive sometimes from others, sometimes from other civil rights leaders to say, hey, let's not speak out today on this or on that back then? >> well, muhammad ali set the standard. he set the bar. and we had a summit in cleveland to really find out just where he was coming from and to support him if we believed in his sincerity. and that bar that he set impressed every one of those individuals. bill russell, kareem abdul-jabbar, carl stokes, the first black mayor of a major city. all of these individuals were

impressed with him, and we came out of that meeting as a unit of individuals that would support him at the risk of everything that the federal government would throw at us. >> you know, bryant and bob, there was at that time, there was some skepticism early on about ali. how much of this was just hype? did he really believe it? and then he sat out. he went ahead and sat out. and he fought the government on vietnam. >> yeah, as everyone knows. he was so highly principled. by today's standards, there's no comparison. i mean, not just the money he could have made, but in terms of his public image, and really that's one of the more remarkable things about the arc of this man's life. millions of thoz who came to love and revere muhammad ali were among his fiercest critics early on. you and i will remember dick young leading the charge of the press.

it was also middle class america who found him too loud, too arrogant, too black, too muslim. and these people because he was so principled came to revere him, and even if they didn't love him, had to say, wow, you know, mad respect. >> without compromising who he was, he won so many people over by the weight of the evidence. the people who doubted him, as bryant said, you couldn't doubt whether you agreed with him or not, you couldn't doubt the honor and integrity behind stepping away. he didn't know it would be three and a half years at the peak of his athletic career. it could have been his entire remaining life he would never step through the ropes again. millions of dollars, the platforms. he was a vain and egotistical man, that was among his qualities. he could have given that up. he was willing to do it. that was a stand of principle. he could have gone to prison. he was sentenced to five years in prison. he was out while it was being

appealed and eventually the supreme court sided with him. you had to respect that. then there were those who said he is all flash and dash. he's not a real old-school fighter. that's where he owed a debt to joe frazier. they came to respect each other because they elevated each other. frazier forced him to dig deep. >> when he began, his best skill was to avoid a punch, and towards the back end, he was revered because he could take a punch. >> jim brown, you were in zaire at the time for that foreman fight, and i love there was some references as he was doing rope a dope, he was winking at you rinkside to let you know, hey, everything is okay. i know what i'm doing here. take us back to that scene of the weeks in the run-up there that you were with him.

>> i was the color man, and david frost was the play-by-play announcer, and i had gone to george foreman's camp to spar with him. and i saw foreman hit the heavy bag. and i refused to spar with him because of the way he thought the heavy bag, i thought, my goodness, if he hit me, it would break my ribs. i went to ali's camp. i said, look, you're my friend, but i don't know about that george foreman. he hits awfully hard. i'm with you, but i don't know if you can beat him. when he started to win in the ring, he came over and said, big fella, what do you think now? and i thought, this guy is unbelievable. in the middle of a fight, he's going to tell me how wrong i was when i said foreman was going to beat him. so he had the ability at these dramatic moments to be a humoro humorous, stand-up comedian, and

i loved him for it. and the 1 thing, and i want to say this, i want to say thanks, lonnie, for looking out for the champ. this man was a great american, because america did not take a back seat to anybody. why would you want to have an african-american heavyweight champion that was not like muhammad ali, a great american? >> hey, bob, you know, that moment in the '96 olympics. >> yeah. >> it is one of those just chills up your spine moments, goosebumps, everything. but it was -- was that the moment when everybody in america realized, oh, yeah, we all love him now? >> it was a tremendous moment of reconciliation. we can't forget how provocative and to many people frightening a figure he was at the height of his boxing career. and we shouldn't say that, well, yes, he became a lovable person because of his affliction and he wasn't so threatening.

it was a combination of things. his life had an extraordinary arc. but at this point, you had a moment of reconciliation. you could sense even in the moment, not just upon reflection, you could sense that everybody in the stadium that night and everyone around the world kind of had the same thought. no matter how anyone felt about any particular chapter of his life, you had to say that in the big picture, this was a person of abundant humanity and of essential decency, and everyone admired and respected him. just about everyone. >> bryant, was there a point in time -- you were, i felt like, the chronicler of him in the '80s in the first period of his retirement. when was the moment you thought, boy, white america has embraced muhammad ali now? >> i don't know if i ever thought of it in those terms, to be honest, chuck. i really didn't. you know, as bob alluded to, the arc of this man's life was just amazing. so i'm not necessarily sure i

ever took a temperature of it and said, oh, wow, this is when it's turned the corner, but you could see it incrementally, every time he took to the world stage. it was amazing. you spoke earlier about him being the most famous man of his time. i would make the case that by sight, by voice, and by name, he may have been the most famous person of our -- certainly of our lifetime, maybe of all time, in that you could go anywhere in the world and say his name or show his picture or play a recording of his voice, and people would instantaneously know who he was. that's amazing power and amazing platform that he seemed intelligently to never misuse. >> i remember an article that bob green wrote in the chicago tribune. he had spent some time with ali. they were aboard a plane descending into some american city. muhammad said sort of matter of

factually, look down at all those houses with their lights on. i could knock on any door and not only would they know who i was, they would invite me in. >> jim brawown, i want to give u the last word here. obviouslier he's made it easier for today's athletes to speak out and not be attacked and not be marginalized. what should today's athletes -- what lesson should today's athletes take from you and muhammad ali and the things yu did for them in the '60s? >> that money is not god. and human dignity is very important. your integrity is way up there. and as a single human being, if you carry yourself in a certain way, you can defy all evil that comes out of it. i would like to make one thing very clear. muhammad ali loved people. and he had white friends as well as black friends.

and on the thing that he hated was discrimination and racism. and so that's the way that i look at him, and that's how i'd like to close out my talking to you today. >> i appreciate it, jim brown. i appreciate you coming on and sharing your memories of him. bryant gumbel, bob costas, also a pleasure. bryant, i don't know how you're going to do it next friday, but good luck. >> if you have any suggestions, let me have them, chuck. >> i appreciate it. all right. >> take care. >> all right. in a moment, the presidential campaign. yes, we're still talking politics here. and the emergence of a new breed of trump supporter, calling them steinoes, supporters in name only. the term could apply perhaps to my next guest, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. >> and could gary johnson's candidacy on the libertarian line make a difference in this year's presidential election? with two deeply unpopular

candidates, it just might. he joins me later in the show. >> my intention is to box, to win a clean fight. my mom loves giving me advice. she even gives me advice... ...about my toothpaste and mouthwash. but she's a dentist so...i kind of have to listen. she said "jen, go pro with crest pro-health advanced." advance to healthier gums... ...and stronger teeth from day one. using crest toothpaste and mouthwash makes my... ...whole mouth feel awesome.

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why it looks that way. but the problem, trump backer s might just be what i call rinos, supporters in name only. yes, they say they'll vote for trump or oppose clinton. but when trump steps in it, as he did this week when he insists a judge couldn't be fair because he was hispanic, his supporters become camera fry. joining me now, mitch mcconnell, author of a new memoir, honest and blunt, called the long game. >> glad to be here. >> before i get to politics, you're a louisville native. >> i am. >> in fact, i believe when you were heading into college, when muhammad ali, then cassius clay, came back as an olympic gold medalist, there wasn't the greatest reception. >> in the early days, it was controversial, but he clearly outlived all his memories. he's the most interesting man in the world, and we're proud of the fact he's from louisville,

kentucky. >> when did it feel like -- you go to louisville now, and it feels like an homage to him. when do you feel like louisville said, boy, he's our favorite son? >> i think about the same time your previous segment indicated. he sort of moved beyond some of the controversial positions he took earlier in the life. he had to be the most interesting man in the world, and we were proud of the fact he was from louisville. >> i noted you have a new book, been on a book tour. i'm not the first person to interview you and ask you about donald trump, so i want to play an array of comments you have made about donald trump in the last week. here they are. >> donald trump is certainly a different kind of candidate. >> i don't agree with everything trump says or does, but i do now that we now have a choice, a choice between two very unpopular candidates. very unpopular. do i agree with a lot of things trump says? no. >> you sound -- i know you're voting for him. if there weren't a supreme court

vacancy, would you be? >> absolutely. i think eight years of barack obama's administration is enough. and one thing we know for sure is that hillary clinton will be four more years just like the last eight. all the slow growth, america is clearly underperforming. and i think we need to go in a different direction, and whatever you think about donald trump, he's certainly a different direction. i think that's what the country needs. >> you know, you -- in your book, you spend a lot of time talking about your mentor in the senate and how he stood up against barry goldwater. you voted for lbj. he went ahead and supported the civil rights act. you worry that barry goldwater would leave a stain on the party. are you worried donald trump is going to leave a stain on the party the way goldwater did? >> i am concerned about the hispanic vote. america is changing. when ronald reagan was elected 84% of the electorate was white. this november, 70% will be.

it's a big mistake for our party to write off latino americans. and they're an important part of the country and soon to be the largest minority group in the country. am i concerned about that. i hope he'll change his direction on that. >> i have heard a lot of republicans say i hope he'll stop this, i hope he'll do this, whatever it's been on, whatever he has said about a specific ethnic group or somebody else. but he hasn't. at what point do you stop hoping and realize it's not going to happen? >> look, i think he's a very competitive candidate. i think america is looking for a different direction, somebody entirely new. but this is a good time, it seems to me, to begin to unify the party and to unify the party by not settling scores and grudges against people you have been competing with. we're all behind him now. and i would like to see him reach out and pull us all together and give us a real shot at winning this november. >> you know what he's said about this federal judge overseeing

the trump university lawsuit. he has called -- he has essentially said he cannot be impartial because he's hispanic. is that not a racist statement? >> i couldn't disagree more with a statement like that. >> is that a racist statement? >> i couldn't disagree more with what he had to say. >> okay, but -- do you think it's a racist statement? >> i don't agree with what he had to say. this is a man who was born in indiana. all of us came here from somewhere else. almost all americans are either near-term immigrants like my wife who came here at age 8 not speaking a word of english or the rest of us whose ancestors were risk takers who came here and made this country great. that's an important part of what makes america work. >> i'm going to read you something that erick erickson, a conservative commentary wrote yesterday. the attacks are racist. to claim someone is unable to objectively and professionally

perform his job because of his race is racism, and damn the gop for its unwillingness to speak up on this. the party of lincoln intends to circle the wagons around a racist. damn them for that. what do you say? >> i think the party of lincoln wants to win the white house. the right of center world needs to respect the fact that the primary voters have spoken. donald trump has won the nomination the old fashioned way. he got more votes than anybody else. is he the perfect candidate for a lot of us? he isn't. but we have a two-party system here. and hillary clinton is certainly not something that i think would be good for the country for -- to continue basically the obama administration for another four years. >> if you end up with a president clinton, do you imagine you'll be able to work better? you write in your memoir, wasn't easy working with president obama. it's pretty clear that you and he see the world very differently politically, but also the back and forths that you had, you didn't find very

helpful. do you imagine you would have a better working relationship with a president hillary clinton? >> i would rather be working with donald trump. for one thing, i know he's going to appoint the right kind of person to the supreme court. he already put out a list. i think it's a good list of the kinds of people he would consider for the high court. we know that even if he differs with us on some issues, he's going to be right of center. i would rather be working with donald trump, and i think that's the opportunity i'm going to have. >> let me ask you this, then. if you're a republican running for re-election and a seat and you're not comfortable with donald trump, what do you say to the voter that isn't comfortable with donald trump and worries that it's a reflection on the republican party? what do you say to the voter that may punish a republican senate candidate because of trump? >> well, look, i don't think that's going to happen. senate races are state-wide races. they're big races. they have a lot of money spent. great opportunity to paint your own picture, how you're representing the people in your particular state.

i'm very confident that these senate candidates that we have, and we do have a lot of exposure this year, 24 republicans up and only 10 democrats. will rise and fall on their own merits. >> you don't believe the presidential race -- do you believe you can hold the senate if donald trump loses the presidential race? >> the year bill clinton got elected, we gained two seats in the senate. the year reagan carried 49 of out 50 states, we lost two seats. we don't know what's going to happen at the presidential level. i hope america will choose to go in a different direction, but the senate races are big enough to stand on their own two felt. that's how we're going to save the senate majority. >> all right, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. thanks for coming on. congrats on the book, and we'll see you soon, i hope. >> thank you. >> when hillary clinton thumped donald trump in a big speech this week, trump seemed to have little to say in response. how bad was trump's week? we'll look at that when we come back. why do you insist on being called muhammad ali now? >> that's the name given to me.

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welcome back. panel is here. ron fournier of the national journal. donny edwards of maryland, andrea mitchell, and lanhee chen from the curonservative uber institution. lanhee, welcome to the table, sir. other members, welcome as well. andrea, let me start with this issue over all things having to do with trump and this federal judge. first of all, he has been attacking this judge based on ethnicity since february. take a look. >> i believe he happens to be sf spanish, which is fine. he's hispanic, which is fine. >> i thin he has been very, very unfair with us. i think the judge has been extremely unfair. >> the judges in this court system, federal court, they ought to look into judge curiel, because what judge curiel is doing is a total disgrace. >> he's a mexican. we're building a wall between here and mexico.

>> just to get this on the record, his attorneys have not filed a motion asking the judge to recuse himself. so the rhetoric doesn't match the actions. >> you have to think that what he's trying to do, perhaps, if there's a strategy here, is to force the judge to take himself off, saying this has now become too political. the judge under the ethics rule is not allowed to argue back. he can't defend himself in the public arena. he can hold donald trump in contempt. he's got a lot of other weapons, but people in the judicial conference, people in the judiciary are horrified by this. constitutional scholars are concerned. people who have not criticized donald trump are saying this questions the separations of powers and it is blatantly racist. there's no other way to describe going after this judge based on his ethnicity. >> of course, this is notstrate. it's a political strategy.

he's moved beyond the dog whistle. this is a racist bull horn to tell the rest of america that if you're not white and you're not a christian, you can't judge me. >> well, and the fact that is the lawyers haven't filed a motion for recusal because there is no basis to file that motion. you cannot move to recuse a judge because the judge is of mexican descent. he's an american. he's a judge. and donald trump is trying to litigate his case in the public on the presidential campaign. it's ridiculous. >> i think at some point the republican party has to begin to look past just one election. and it seems to me that this sort of focus on a single election and winning a single election is one thing. really thinking about where is the party headed? what does rhetoric like this do to a party in 2012, after the 2012 election, tried to assess how successful they could be with minority voters. >> you know who tried to assess this? donald trump. this is donald trump in november

2012. the democrats didn't have a policy for dealing with illegal immigrants but what they did have going for them is they weren't mean-spirited about it. they didn't know what the policy was, but what they were is they were kind. romney had a crazy policy of self deportation which was maniacal. it sounded as bad as it was and he lost all the latino vote, the asian vote, everyone who was inspired to come into this country. where is that donald trump? >> senator mcconnell just told you. the party of lincoln wants to win the white house. that's how cynical this is. to your point, a short-term strategy. >> this is a party that is going to lose not only -- they have already lost a generation of african-americans, multiple generations. they're going to lose a generation of latino voters, and they are going to lose the american public because, you know, they're not willing to call out, and for senator mcconnell to say that the party of lincoln is only interested in winning is pretty shameful

statement. >> the fact that john mccain, because of the hispanic vote, is at risk of losing the election after five terms in the senate and being the party standard bearer, and being someone universally admired in many quarters, republican and democratic, because of the top of the ticket, and this would of course also contribute to losing the senate. i think tit's what jim brown jut said about muhammad ali. money is not god. human dignity and integrity matter. winning is not everything. >> speaking of winning is everything. there's a new trump super pac out. they have their first ad they're going to debut later in the week. we have an exclusive first look at it. as you can see, nothing about donald trump in it now. here it is. >> i want to say one thing. >> we turned over everything. >> i want you to listen to me. >> i did not -- >> i did not -- >> i did not send classified material.

>> not a single time. >> and i did not receive -- >> never. >> any material that was marked or designated classified. >> i never told anybody to lie. >> that's all i can say. >> these allegations are false. >> i don't know how it works digitally at all. >> all right, this ad is going to start on national cable later in the week. this is going to be the trump super pac, ron. it's obvious the message, not pro-trump, they're going to do, whatever you think of him, remember the clintons. >> right, this is an election of negative partisanship. they know americans are going to vote against who they hate the worst. this is effective. trust is the goal point of politics, supposed to be. and the clintons for all their strengths have a history of squandering trust. and this was, again, this was a cynical strategy by the clinton people. they gambled that trust was not going to matter, that they could get away with this e-mail business and the public would

forgive them or they would draw a candidate even worse. and it looked -- >> temperament. >> this is going to be a race to the bottom. that's very clear. an ad like that will be effective. the questions at some point, do either of them try to rise above? the answer probably is no. but i think it would serve trump well to start to articulate a little bit of an agenda, don't you think? >> hillary clinton and bernie sanders have been running a campaign that's based on issues and based on substance. this is not. >> all right. going to pause it there. we'll be back. you'll have more bites of this apple. we'll be back in a moment with a man who just may have a bigger impact on this presidential election than you may think. libertarian nominee and former republican governor, by the way, of mnew mexico, gary johnson. could he win enough votes to swing the election to one candidate or the other or could he be the surprise? >> he made decisions and lived with the consequences of them, and he never stopped being an americans even when he became

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welcome back. there have been two presidents named johnson. the first, andrew johnson, took office when president lincoln was assassinated, was eventually impeached. the second was lyndon johnson, who also gained the white house as the result of an assassination. his ambitions for his great society ran up against his unpopular support for the vietnam war and he chose not to run for re-election in 1968. my next guest, gary johnson, hopes to be the third johnson. his candidacy could at a minimum swing the election one way or another. he joins me now. welcome to the show. >> great being here. >> welcome back. i know you were here years ago.

good to have you back. you say you believe the great middle of this country is libertarian. how do you convince the great middle of the country that they are? >> just the notion that most people, i think, are fiscally conservative and socially liberal. and most people, i think, recognize that our military interventions for the most part are having the unintended consequence of making things worse, not better. >> are you comfortable with the idea you might be a spoiler? >> i don't think i'm going to be a spoiler in this. i think it's really a draw from both sides. >> do you believe that? you're going to draw equally, or do you think that ultimately, you're going to become the sort of the way station for republicans that can't support trump? >> you know, my name has appeared in three national polls. 10%, 10%, 11%, and in those polls, they did a bit of analysis and determined i took more votes away from hillary. at the end of the day, i think it's going to be a draw from both sides. >> how much have you reached out

to people like mitt romney and others who have been steadfast in their never trump? >> i never found it effective to reach out to anybody. when they reach out to your side, that's when it actually is effective. that's what we're finding, is people are reaching out to us. i'm talking, too, about my running mate, bill weld. a terrific bit. he joined the ticket, two republican governors serving in heavily blue states that got re-elected by big margins. >> i want to ask you about a little bit about your governing philosophy. you're known for being -- you were known for all of those vetoes, i think about 750 of them when you were governor of new mexico. you were overridden only a handful of times, but one was a big override, the budget. >> that's the republicans at the end who say we give up. you're not going to be around, we'll deal with it. >> i heard you talk about all of the agencies you would eliminate. let me ask the question differently, as a libertarian, you want to eliminate some seven

cabinet posts if you become president. what is the role of government in your view? >> well, less government. i mean, smaller government. i think government tries to do too much. and at the end of the day, it taxes too much, and that's money out of your and my pocked. >> what should it regulate, what should the federal government be? >> protect us against individuals, groups, corporations, foreign governments that would do us harm. at the end of the day, i'm looking to get elected president of the united states. i'm going to sign off on any reduction in the federal government. agencies specific. i can't wave a magic wand and make those things happen, but yeah, smaller government is a good thing. if you're looking for the smaller government guys, it would be the libertarian ticket. >> what should it be regulating? that's what i'm trying to get specific. what is it the government should be involved in? you say for instance health care. should it have a role in health care? >> i think that we should

provide a safety net. i just think that we have gone way over the line with regard to defining those in need and that if we don't reform medicaid and medicare, we're going to find ourselves without being able to provide that. i think at the end of the day as a result of government spending, at some point we're going to have really horrible inflation in this country. >> let me ask you on defense. when would you use the military? when would you -- >> whatever -- >> what is that line? >> when we're attacked, we're going to attack back. i reject the notion that libertarians are isolationists. look, there should be diplomacy to the hilt, but with regard to our military interventions, boots on the ground, dropping bombs, flying drones that are killing thousands of innocent people, i think that it's had the unintended consequence of making the world less safe. let's involve congress in de declaration of war, they have abdicated that responsibility to the executives and to the

military. >> you do not believe in any military engagement that would be done on a humanitarian basis. >> no, and you can't exclude that. you don't want to sit by and watch some sort of humanitarian crisis go down, either. but so much -- >> were you in favor of bosnia, the intervention there? >> not having been involved in it at the time, i don't want to misspeak, but how about having a skeptic at the table with regard to these military interventions? and yes, if we are going to make a difference, then count on me to step up. but our military interventions -- we have treaties with apparently 69 countries where we're obligated to defend their borders. and these were treaties that were executive treaties, not authorized by congress. >> final question for you. the results come in on election night. you have had an impact. will you be more comfortable if your impact elects a president

clinton or a president trump? >> you know, chuck, i would not be doing this if there weren't the opportunity to win. but the only opportunity that i have of winning is to be in the presidential debates and to be in the presidential debates, i have to be in the polls. right now, i have been in three national polls. but in the meantime, there have been another 40 polls where my name has not been included. >> i understand that, but if your candidacy helps elect donald trump, would that make you feel as if you had a successful candidacy? >> a successful candidacy will be talking about issues that aren't being talked about right now. that's a combination, that unique combination of being fiscally conservative, smaller government, and individual liberty and freedom. a person's right to choose, always come down on the side of choice. and then when it comes to the military, look, let's have some skeptics here. hillary clinton arguably is the architect of our foreign interventions.

that's a unique combination that neither party offer. and at the end of the day, you know, they're not going to just pay lip service if i'm on the stage. they're going to have to do more than that. >> but if you could not win, you have a preference of which of the other two major party candidates you would like to win? >> i would vote libertarian. it's important also, and i know you know this, but i'm the only third-party candidate that's going to be on the ballot in all 50 states. all this talk about third party, i'm it. >> gary johnson, we'll be watching. thank you for coming on. when we come back, hillary clinton's takedown of donald trump this week seemed to leave him with no answer beyond some familiar tweets and insuts. but it seems as if there was another victim of that speech. bernie sanders, whose candidacy feels a little smaller today. the democratic race when we come back. >> took a good man to whoop me. you look at me, i can't be beat.

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welcome back. we're two days away from the last big primary day of the election season. six states will hold primaries or caucuses on tuesday. big prize is california, the so-called big enchilada. politics with a cliche. our latest poll gives clinton just a two-point lead over bernie sanders, 49/47 among likely democratic voters. also show close fight inside the

numbers. california is less about delegates than it is about momentum. clinton will likely go over the top in delegates even before the polls close in california on tuesday. what does matter is momentum. she wants to rid herself of bernie sanders and focus entirely on donald trump leading up to the democratic convention. got a bit of a start on this week. panel is back. before we get into bernie a minute, i want to play for you a little back and forth we had, which essentially was the 24-hour period of clinton going after trump and trump responding. here it is. >> donald trump himself is a fraud. he is trying to scam america the way he scammed all those people at trump u. >> i think hillary is very weak. i think she's pathetic. i think she should be in jail for what she did with her e-mails. >> i will leave it to the psychiatrists to explain his affection for tyrants. >> remember i said i was the counterpuncher, i am. after what she said about me today in her phony speech, that

was a phony speech. >> dangerously incoherent. >> she's a liar. >> we also had a trump voter get egged and harassed. okay, it's june. one candidate says the other is a lunatic. the other one is saying the other candidate is a criminal and belongs in jail. where are we going? >> not in a very good place. i just came back from california and i'm heading back there tonight. the fact is that there is tremendous antipathy right now around this whole race. yet when they close the registration for california, on friday night, sacramento secretary of state announced it is unprecedented, historic, almost 18 million people now registered. 72% of those eligible have registered to vote. and this is, i think, really generated by the concern that the hispanics and others have about donald trump. that awful, awful egging of the

trump supporter isñbzñ san jose i think, you can't separate it from the egging on, no pun intended, in north carolina and elsewhere, that he did at his rallies. and what we have come to is a really bad place. i do think that hillary clinton elevated her attacks. >> no doubt. >> in a way he did not have an answer for. >> go ahead. >> i think hillary both elevated her attacks, but she also elevated herself in two very compelling back-to-back arguments on a fraudulent trump university and a dangerously incoherent national security framework from donald trump. and i think that that puts her, you know, up above. >> okay, but i put that out there because it's more of, i'm concerned what october is going to look like. i'm concerned about half the country not accepting the results in november. and not in a 2000 type style

response where everybody laid down their arms. >> i'm concerned not just about november and the way you are, but i'm concerned about the next novembers, the next two or three cycles. we're in a time much like we were at the beginning of the last century where the public doesn't trust institutions, the validity of elections. when that happens, people do dangerous and totally improper things like egging a supporter from the other side. >> there are no rules. >> this could devolve into a really serious violence and further destruction of trust in the system. >> i think the big question, though, with hillary clinton is can she continue and sustain this tone and this attack? she gave her speech on thursday. foreign policy speech, not really a foreign policy speech. >> temperament. >> a take-down speech. then on friday, she kind of went back to the same rhetoric again. i think for her to be effective, i do think she has to be at that level with trump. i think ron's right, that really does put the nation in jeopardy in the sense it puts in a very,

very difficult place come october, come november. >> clinton is still running two races. she's got to close out the democratic primary, and then stay in a general election mode and really articulating to the american people both her vision, but also why it is that trump will be dangerous for the country. >> bernie sanders just looks small now. let's be honest. he looks small now. >> who else looks small because of hillary clinton is donald trump. she did what you do to a bully. you bully a bully. you mock a bully. >> what was so important was the tone, as donna was pointing out, by making it as calm as she did, it was not a rally where she was screaming. i was there, it was a calm, deliberate takedown, and also by using humor. >> donna, you're somebody here, you have extra powers. you're a super delegate. not just a delegate, a super delegate. should there be super delegates? >> first of all, i didn't know i was a super delegate, but now that i know, i feel extra

powerful. but what i do know is that these were the rules going on, all of those knew these rules going in, and i think it is time to rethink them, but you don't do that in the middle of a game. >> the idea that a candidate wants to convince the elite to give him an election against the people's will. >> you can't make it up. >> a quick programming note, tonight, the heroin epidemic, and a new england police chief with a controversial approach, giving addicts who ask for help a dose of compassion. josh mank owits reports. on assignment tonight at i asked my dentist if an electric toothbrush was going to clean better than a manual. he said sure...but don't get just any one. get one inspired by dentists, with a round brush head. go pro with oral-b. oral-b's rounded brush head cups your teeth to break up plaque and rotates to sweep it away. and oral-b delivers a clinically proven superior clean versus sonicare diamondclean. my mouth feels super clean! oral-b. know you're getting a superior clean.

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back now with our end game

segment. frankly, interesting, you guys had interesting muhammad ali stories. >> he was in cherryhill, new jersey at the gym with angela donedy. i was a young reporter in philadelphia. he would come into the newsroom and at first, as an intern, i would be escorting him in. he was larger than life. this was '67, '68. you know, and when you think about 1968 and the mexico city oly olympics and how controversial it was with the black power salute, and muhammad ali was there so much before that with the dignity and courage of his convictions. >> donna, you have a really interesting story. >> well, i don't know how much people remember about when they were 5 or 6 years old, but muhammad ali visited my kindergarten class room here in washington, d.c., and i just remember he was really big. he got down on his knees. he looked us in the eye and he wanted to shake our hands and

his hands were really big. >> ron, being a detroit guy, a lot of people, before there was ali, there was joe louis, who in his own way, helped break down barriers. >> in his own way, that was a lot more quieter than muhammad ali. muhammad ali took it to another level, and i agree with everything everybody was saying today. what strikes me is five decades after muhammad ali was in his prime, we have a leader of a major party who looked out in the audience today and said there's my african-american. i hope he behaves himself. >> i was there at the white house when he received the medal of freedom. it was a group gathering. >> yes, there was. >> it was extraordinary, watching george w. bush and the eloquence of bush's tribute to him. >> it's amazing, though, that we live in a country where sports stars aren't just sports stars. they don't have to just be sports stars. they can talk about issues. >> we're all citizens. with that, that's all we have for today. we're back next day.

because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." it's monday, june 6th. coming up on early today, tributes continue to pour in on the death of boxer muhammad ali, as preparations get under way for his funeral. another primary win puts hillary clinton on the verge of clinching the democratic nomination. plus, major progress in a fast-moving massive wildfire in southern california. a historic win for novak djokovic. and a new miss usa is crowned. "early today" starts right now. good morning, everybody. i'm dara brown. tributes continue to pour in from around the globe for icon muhammad ali. an interfaith memorial was held sunday night in ali's hometown of